Just anecdotally, our dyslexic 10 year old was so relieved that there was an actual 'thing' impacting his brain that it actually propelled him forward with progress. We initially didn't tell him he learned differently, we just switched up our methods but he wanted the information and heightened self-awareness that came from the 'label'. You have great kids, each beautifully unique. This was a great podcast!! ❤️
I can agree with this. It was helpful to both my daughter and I to recognize the challenges she was having were because of ADD. It also helped to research how her brain is likely working and gave me tools to help.
I also agree with this sentiment. It made a world of difference to not only my daughter when we realized she has ADHD, but even more so for myself realizing I had it as an adult. My entire life made so much more sense than it ever had before. I always felt stupid, even though I know I'm not. I'm fairly intelligent actually, but because of the difficulties I've had because of adhd, I had this impression that I was just a failure. Now it all makes sense, and I know my brain just works differently, but by no means does that classify me as dumb or a failure. A diagnosis literally changed my life. It also makes me so hopeful for my daughter because my mom had no clue, so I just figured out how to cope. With my daughter though we are actually getting help, and figuring out healthy ways to cope. Its awesome.
i agree. it felt good to know that my life had been the way it had been because of my autism, rather than just not understanding at all why it was so different compared to others. harder mostly.
Filia reminds me a lot of myself when I was younger. I used to spend hours making very intricate drawings (often staying in during recess to finish them, well after other kids had left), I loved to climb and use my body, and was very curious and inquisitive about the world. I also couldn’t read. I was diagnosed with Dyslexia in 3rd grade after I made a C in writing and composition. After that, my parents sent me to a reading clinic that specialized in Orton-Gillingham three times a week for a year. After that I continued to attend the reading clinic every week for two more years. I was very ashamed of being Dyslexic, and hid where I went after school from my friends well into middle school. Even into late middle school it was physically difficult for me to say that I was Dyslexic. My cousin (same age as me) was also diagnosed with Dyslexia, but was diagnosed in 5th grade. She received occasional tutoring (< once per week) for about a year. By the time I entered high school I was a voracious reader and excelled on the Speech and Debate Team. To this day, my cousin continues to struggle with reading and self-esteem in academic settings. I say this because I don’t think that labels hurt self-esteem per se, but that that inability to overcome these labels does cause issues with self-esteem. I would be very wary of backing off of reading. Just because someone has difficulty learning something, or learns it in a different way, doesn’t mean that they won’t ultimately really enjoy it. Often antipathy or apathy come from the frustration of being forced to learn something in a counterintuitive and confusing way, and not from the actual subject matter itself. During tutoring, I memorized hundreds of roots and affixes of words. While this was sometimes tedious and frustrating, it was instrumental in my learning to read. For many Dyslexics, memorization and relational reasoning are significantly easier than traditional language acquisition methods. It has been theorized that this is why many Dyslexics are much better at learning Mandarin than Western languages, as the structure of the Hanzi characters emphasize spatial and relational reasoning much more than languages based on the Latin alphabet (interestingly, learning the roots and affixes of words mirrors learning the radicals in Hanzi characters). One other thing I would be wary of is binary thinking. Often our culture explains the world through oppositional binaries: Humanities vs. STEM, physical vs. mental, big picture vs. detail, emotional vs. rational. I think that most of the time when we examine these, we find that they are false dichotomies. There is no reason a person can’t both enjoy storytelling and science, no reason that someone who feels deeply can’t also think precisely, no reason that someone who enjoys inhabiting their body can’t also enjoy inhabiting their mind. Sometimes we are better at one or the other, but I don’t think that being inclined towards one of these causes you to be less inclined to the other. I guess I would conclude by urging everyone to understand that just because the standard way of doing something doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean that that thing isn’t for you. While reading once caused me feelings of anxiety and inferiority, now it nourishes my curiosity and helps me find beauty in the world. If Filia is anything like me, $300 dollars for a course is more than worth it.
I second all of this wholeheartedly! From another voracious dyslexic reader! Also, the struggle itself, when looked at correctly, can end up being an incredible gift in life. I now truly know I can do what ever I put my mind to because of my experience learning to read. And I am proud of it and the strength it took to do it.
As a child I was severely dyslexic. My first grade teacher called me stupid. Then in 5th grade some kids stole my report card and read it allowed to the class. It was humiliating. My parents often yelled at me for being so behind. That had a major impact on my self esteem. I still struggle with that but now I own my own photography business and make a quarter of a million dollars a year. Not that money is everything but I hate when people put so much emphasis on traditional education. It can be harmful for some kids and is not the only answer to being a successful adult.
I understand you. I hated Fridays in English class because we would have to read outloud. I remember counting to figure out which paragraph I would have to read and if there was words I didn't know... I would go home "sick." What was worse was when a student who read got to pick the next student who read because I had no way of knowing when it would be my turn to read.
@@allison7869 I would do the same thing. So stressful. I always felt like I was the only kids in my school to struggle in these areas. Only now as an adult do realize how many other kids went through very similar things.
Dyscalcula/dysgraphia/dyslexia can all go hand in hand but aren’t the same. It can make typical learning really hard but kids with those learning differences are really bright and they learn amazing compensatory skills by necessity.
This episode helped me grasp how a friend with ADHD may have felt throughout her youth, in school, and now also following into adulthood. Thank you for the introspective prompts. I enjoyed listening :)
I'm dyslexic and was homeschooled. My mom painstakingly taught me to read (lots of tears- Barton was not for me)- to which I'm thankful but more importantly she didn't limit me in the things I was good at because of the things I struggled with. When I got to college I got tested for dyslexia to be able to get books on tape and the test showed that my reading level was at the level of the average person but because everything else was higher than that I was classified as dyslexia. What I think was really good and helped me was she read to me all the time. I listen to audiobooks. Which instilled in me the love of learning things through books. I love audible, from text to speech- which take long things typed out and it creates a audiobook for me and Grammarly. I now read for the pleasure of it granted it takes a long time but the more I do it and not let myself burn out the longer and faster I find myself being able to read. You said it perfectly don't let the negative "things" define her let her know it's a part of who she is so she doesn't bang her head trying to figure out why it's harder.
I would be afraid not gaining a basic knowledge of reading would become highly frustrating as she gets older. Is it an absolute necessity, no. Having a home with running water is not an absolute necessity, but it sure a lot easier than lugging water from a well or not having a flushing toilet. I see it like being in a foreign country permanently and not knowing the language. Sure she could use audio books and such, but what happens when she can’t read a basic legal document or a job application? What if she just wants to sit down and read a blog or an article?
I strongly believe that Filia will know how to read before she is an adult. Most who struggle with dyslexia figure it out. It might not be until shes 12 or 13 or 16 or 18. But she will get it. She will still live a happy and fulfilling life no matter her reading ability. She has accomplished more than most adults.
@@allison7869 I’m sure she will. I can’t imagine what it would have been like to be Beethoven and deaf pursuing music or Helen Keller pursuing reading and an education. However, they proved everyone wrong and demonstrated that certain limitations don’t limit your dreams.
I think living anywhere in the developed world requires a certain level of reading. Basic banking, emails, menus, movie theatres, instructions and directions for so many things are written, map reading and street signs, exits on the freeway, googling stuff and finding your videos on RUclips for example! Always open to have my mind changed, or at least to be enlightened, so please share your thoughts on the need for basic reading skills in our culture.
Hey, school psychology grad student here! I have had a ton of course work on learning disabilities, assessment, and more. First the in our courses no matter the disability we are encouraged to use person-first language. So we say "a kid with dyslexia" instead of a dyslexic kid. This is done to help avoid what you brought up a couple of times with the idea of being stuck as "dyslexic forever". We are also encouraged to put a kid in the least restrictive environment so whatever way that the kid can have as socially regular as possible especially early on. I will say this about the idea of being "normal" and having a disability. It is hard. It is hard to not jump the gun for a third or fourth grader and not have at least a couple kids that are not kind. It is so hard to deal with that. The difference here is that there are generally more resources available to a child ex: reading specialists, teachers aids, and people like what I hope to do creating and implementing interventions to aid in giving a kid as many choices and abilities as possible. Not trying to sound like a suit here but there is definitely tons of research to back up the idea of labels and creating support systems for those labels
@@heathercadenhead yes but this is in reference to mental health specifically as it relates to your latter example. In relation to ASD it’s a case by case basis and considered more professional to use people first language first if you do not know a preference.
@@heathercadenhead Yes, I think that promoting and claiming your identity is fine and can be empowering. The problem is when you come into a job like mine where you have to explain a concept like that to a 4-year-old who has ASD when the kids in class make fun of him. It's not fair to those populations to just force them to understand a complex idea of embracing who you are and honestly is cognitively impossible. Should an adult person be free to do that and follow an advocacy group's advice? sure, but when you have a long personal reflection like what you linked talking about it and not taking into consideration the most vulnerable of the populations I would disagree with the article on a fundamental level. Also, side note I just wanted to defend my point. I have little to no faith that you will change your mind based on a comment section discussion with me. I will continue my life based on the framework that I have built it on and I am nearly certain you will as well and that is okay with me. Truly I hope the best for you and I appreciate that enthusiasm and discourse.
I have a reading disability. I'm currently 21 years old and just graduated collage on the deans list. I don't have Dyslexia but something similar and less common. To this day I test as having the reading level of a 3rd grader... in other words, I can not read. However, as you said in the video, you do not need to read in this world. I have many friends who can read with ease and yet never do. last year I "read" 25 books Including 2000 Miles Together. I think its more important to teach kids to have goals and desires then it is to teach them skills they my never need. The school system found out I had a disability when I was 9 years old. They never found out how to teach me. I was lucky enough to have a few great teachers in high school who focused on teaching me how to work around my disability instead of trying to work the same way as other kids. Looking back (and now being a teacher who specializes in special needs myself) I only wish I had someone who supported me much sooner and not just focused on the system. I think homeschooling or Unschooling is a much better way to teach kids then any public school system. Your teaching kids to be themselves and not just an employee of someone else.
I appreciate your conversation about this, and it is thought provoking. Sometimes you present as very black and white when this can be such a gray area. As a parent, sometimes we have to predict what our kids might WANT in the future or what might bring them more joy. (as opposed to what they NEED according to society) I have a son with autism: I had to choose therapies when he was younger that would increase his ability to interact with the world/with us in the future and give him a chance to express himself when he had a limited vocabulary. This early intervention was SO helpful in helping teach him to express himself and identify his emotions. There were other therapies that I ditched early on: ones that tried to make him conform to societal standards and treated his autism as a condition that needed to be fixed. His autism makes him who he is, it is how his brain is wired and he didn't need to be changed. However, if I let it go completely, just let him go without any intervention, he would have been so stunted in many ways.
Our youngest (15 years old) was tested for Dyslexia & ADHD in 3rd grade. That was the year we pulled her out of public school. We spent the first year homeschooling (not even deschooling) and then went to deschooling because homeschooling was just as stressful as public school. After that first year of deschooling after homeschooling, I started reading about unschooling and unraveling our “norms” to find a out of the box style of learning for our kids. During that time we saw our daughter’s creative & intuitive abilities blossom. It was fucking mind blowing. My parents never fostered my creativity so it has been a beautiful thing to give space for our daughter to grow. We have been so much more open minded as a family during this process. Learning new things, growing our own food, creating, selling our home and 80% of belongings to live tiny in the mountains, run marathons, hike, etc. Living life!
I grew up not knowing I had ADD and Dyslexia, I always felt different and alone, when I found out I had ADD and Dyslexia I got answers and it opened me up. It made me understand myself and gave me the outlet to find my own way of learning. It's like that saying you can't teach a fish to fly. Well if a fish is constantly dreaming to be just like the bird then it believes something is wrong with it but if you tell the fish hey it looks like you can't be a bird because you're a fish. The fish won't stop trying to fly all together it will just stop looking at the fins, wishing they were wings instead of the fish will workout and grow its fins become a flying fish. As long as flying was this fish's goal that is if flying was actually not serving the fish then the fish will instead become a deep-sea diver.
While I watched your AT vlogs, I was entirely taken with your whole family. But it was Eden and Filia who rose to the top as the most intriguing characters. Eden provoked the camera to find a smile, yet it was obvious she had pushed her chips all-in on the trip as she always met her responsibilities and far exceeded. But it was Filia who truly was the central character of the stage. She never complained or introduced any of the natural drama, but rather was always soaring above the details as she set out trail twig signs and berry markers all the while carrying a pack nearly half her size. The way she connected with Fresh Grounds and the Ultra-runner (Can’t remember his name from the 24hr race) showed she is a young lady far beyond her age. I have a dear friend who is dyslexic and it’s the least important thing about him. You keep living life Filia!
You should look up the book The Gift of dyslexia. These kids have such skills and gifts. This is not a disability. It’s an ability. But they do need to read. Barton was great for my son. I was not near as strict as the videos and directions wanted. And we only made it to level 3. We sometimes worked just ten minutes a day. He could not read at age ten and I pulled him from 4th grade public school. I promised him I would never make him go to school ever again. It took a year for him not to cry when we drove past the school. Such emotional damage. We did nothing for 5th grade. He just followed his passion of theater. He listened to books on tape. He played, roamed in the woods, shoveled snow, chopped firewood, dug holes, and countless other things. Throughout high school we created “classes” out of life. My son is now 22 and just told me he loves to learn. I credit that to unschooling and letting him follow his passions and just chilling out. But I did teach him to read. I believe he would have been angry with me had I not helped him to learn to read. When he learned to type at age 11 he was suddenly able to express his great creativity that previously had been “stuck in his arm” because writing was so hard. Out came amazing stories with the help of spell check and Grammerly. He’s in college now getting great grades and contemplating becoming a doctor. He has started using Kahn Academy to work on some math skills, knowing he will need them. He is a top notch soccer referee who gets paid quite well for his time. He has such amazing big picture abilities that have helped him be the assistant director in several film productions. He is often called on to stage manage theater productions. He teaches himself whatever he needs to know to do whatever he wants to do. BUT, he is thankful that he can read. Reading is a life skill. It opens all the doors to what a person wants in life. Dyslexics can learn to read. They need to learn to read. In there timing. Just last year at age 21 my son had an amazing realization that words can be pronounced by their syllables. That is something I have been trying to get him to realize for years. These kids are late bloomers. Support her, love her, let her follow her passions, but teach her to read. Teach her to use her resources to assist where she falls short. Grammerly, voice to text, many other options. She has gifts and passions. Help her to follow them by helping her read.
Nodding my head the whole time. So many words of wisdom. My favourite was "it's not an impediment, it's actually her fuel, the fact that she doesn't gravitate to written words gives her the energy to be captivated by all these other things that I'm not able to see or create" So well said. Please keep sharing these videos. As a mom who wanted to let go and unschool my homeschooled kids but held too many fears to not push, this was what I needed to hear those many years ago. If this inspires other families then you've helped unleash some beautiful humans.
My parents found out I was hard of hearing when I was 2. They never treated me like I was different and most people who know me have no idea that I wear hearing aids to this day. I think it's good that I have awareness of my differences, but also know that it doesn't rule my life.
I loved hearing Eden's and Seven's story. I was in school since I was 2 weeks old (my mom is school teacher so she toke me with her right away), I did great in school, good grades and all. And only when I left school did I realize that I didn't know how to be without it! I didn't learn to push myself, or how to learn, or how to have empathy towards others, I just did enough for every class and followed the rules. And without any of that I had to learn how to make a schedule and have my own goals, and how to work on them, and all these things. School just taught me to relax and do nothing when I wasn't in school! And that was a terrible thing to learn. I loved hearing about your story and your book "Unleash your family" was also a great resource to help me get my life together and value myself for who I am.
I have an unschooled kid who everyone diagnosed as dyslexic and told me so, without my asking or interest. Grannies, aunties, friends, strangers, etc. He wasn’t reading or printing “at grade level” when it came to school years, so all those same holier-than-thou diagnosers and finger-wavers told me he was at a disadvantage and would suffer as he grew older and was behind his peers. Then one day after not being able to read Pokémon cards when he was trading with his friends, he started to read. Now he reads above that magic “grade level” and knows when he prints something backwards or transposes a word. If he were in school, he would’ve been labeled as dyslexic and ADHD, but being that he’s not in school he can bounce around all he wants, climb trees, hike up mountains, swim across lakes, and read a book on topics he loves, like survival and plants and mythical beasts, and not just some dumbed down reader in school, where he would be raised up *being* his diagnoses instead of never even using the words or suffering for them. Filia rocks at being a human, and that is what counts.
As a former RSP teacher, who also lives with level 3 ADHD combined type and depression, I have never seen a child with any of these diagnoses as learning disabled. I see them as learning differences. Because, honestly that’s all that it is. There isn’t anything wrong with their ability to learn, just how the information is taken in. Please take some time to understand how it affect a child’s executive function. This will help down the road to keep battles down to a minimum. There are so many things that people with ADHD experience in their thought processes and they have no idea that it isn’t what other people experience. My favorite shirt says “ADHD: We think more things before breakfast than most people think all day.”
Kami is such a great conversationalist. She is an attuned listener bringing her own imagination and insights to Ben's foil. It makes these podcasts so productive, interesting and stimulating. It makes me think along with you.
My 13yo is severely dyslexic and actually is now our most well-read and our most creative writer. In their case it was definitely not a disability, just different wiring. He has incredible strengths in other areas due to having dyslexia. It was beneficial to know. Barton Reading and Spelling is great (side by side) and geared towards teens/ESL - but works with younger student too. I guess it depends on how you want to approach it. In our case, not reading was holding my son back from what he wanted to do, so he had the drive to go through lessons. He's an interest led learner too.
I thought it was really interesting when kami was talking about making filia read to feel better about herself for having filia meet her “bar”, but that just made me wonder whether reading is something filia wants to be able to do, but the way you guys were teaching her before just make it really unenjoyable because that way of learning didn’t work for her, or if she genuinely does not want to read
I was/am super dyslexic. I can not spell to save my life and couldn't read to myself until 6th grade. At the beginning of first grade, my teacher told my mother she thought I was brilliant/should likely skip a grade. By the end of the year, the same teacher said I might never learn to read. When I was assessed in 2nd grade with an IEP, I had horrible math and spelling results but college-level reading compression. Despite school being incredibly difficult for me, I can’t even express how hard it was sometimes; I actually really liked school because I was blessed with living in an area of the country with progressive schools, and I LOVE ideas and stories and learning. I often connected well with my teachers. My parents always explained that the part I was having trouble with was the mere mechanics of things, not the concept or ideas. That it was just the details to work out on the side, not the essential central part. I grew up to go to film school and become a documentary filmmaker/editor and then early childhood educator. My Dyslexia is a significant gift in both my fields, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. My intelligence and creativity are my dyslexia, because really it's just an incredibly uneek and comprehensive way of thinking. I would be happy to talk to you more about this if you want.
A lot of labels come from requiring a label to receive support needed for “success” success to me is different for everyone. There is a ton of support to help your daughter feel more confident in her abilities. Also, dyslexia doesn’t have to be a bad label. Make it into a positive. Show her how it makes her unique and show her all of those positives you see. I will tell you I am on the autism spectrum and have ADD and didn’t learn this information until I was 23. My parents knew I hit many of the marks for both of these but never told me. As an adult I had frustration and anger that they didn’t tell me. For so long I knew I was different and processed things differently, but never understood why others didn’t think the way I thought. Instead of celebrating those differences I had, my parents hid it. It made me feel ashamed of these labels even though as a special education teacher I celebrate my students differences and strengths. Instead of hiding it from her show her what she can do and show her that it is ok that she struggles to read, give her resources to help her feel more confident in weaker areas. But don’t make it into a negative. Celebrate those differences!
Even though I don't necessarily agree with everything, this was really an eye opener. In fifth grade, the teachers recommended that my twin sister should skip sixth grade and jump directly to seventh grade. My mother decided to keep her in fifth grade because of me. That left me with: 1. a lot of guilt as I thought I was holding my sister back. 2. the perception that I was stupid. I wasn't -I just wasn't on the same academic level as my sister.. I was very creative but no one took me aside and told me. For many years I thought I was stupid. I'm starting to question whether the educational system is just standardising young people to fit into a society and a future that we really don't have any control over.
This conversation feels super timely for me. I feel really in line with seeing our children through a multifaceted lense. Also I kept thinking about all the amazing accessibility options that exsists for so many alterly abled individuals. A microphone with voice to text could yield lots of bunny drawing tutorials on RUclips 😄
Both of my kids are dyslexic- It’s terrible how they can be made to feel “stupid” and to be given labels too. I always told they are smart and just learn things differently. This worked for me- Tactile learning helps with dyslexia- we wrote many words and math problems on the side walk or on paper with sand paper behind it. Also lots of Audible books - they also had their tests read to them instead of them reading the questions Hank Zipster books - are about a kid with dyslexia - kinda fun to read with the kids since they could relate to them Kudos to you for thinking of helping her thrive and not labeling
Public schools completely let me down. I feel like even when I was interested in a certain subject, I failed to be taught anything. I wasted so much life waiting for the instructor & students to socialize or organize. We relearned the same things multiple times. Even after 12 years, I learned nothing useful. I can write slightly better, but I was born with that natural talent. I knew nothing about taxes, business, loans, politics, anything. I’ve learned it all from RUclips.
I'm into my late 40s. And have had a learning disability all my life. At least that's what they tell me. I don't believe I learn any in all my school years. I don't believe I even read my fust book until way after school. But I'm doing alright in life. Some days are better than others ; )
I have ADHD inattentive type, and used Stevenson learning skills for reading . It helped so much and I finally understood after a lot of trial and error.
Thanks for this conversation. The labeling sucks but schools do it so kids can get support. They can’t get that extra help they might need in the classroom without the label. Since Filia isn’t in a traditional classroom I wouldn’t worry about it. Learning differences can make for very strong students. One of my favorite piano students had dyslexia. She pretty much had to memorize pieces. It was amazing to watch her release herself from the music staff on the page and feel the music. She played with more freedom than any student I’ve ever had. From watching Filia sort and classify things in nature from your videos, I wonder if that part of her brain is shootin’ fireworks because that’s what it does best. Maybe reading will always be a struggle but that math and science area is going to be off the charts. Some families I’ve seen support their kid’s struggles with reading by making an audio book available as well as the physical book. They read and listen at the same time. You guys think through situations. I’m sure you’ll make the decisions that support her. Enjoyed this so much.
One more thing, you may want to consider getting comprehensive testing done. The results do not mean any one thing per say, nore do they mean you have to do anything specifically. However they may help you get a window into her brains way if doing things and can help her if she ever did decide to enter traditional school (even college).
Great podcast!! I loved it :) my boyfriend is dyslexic and he learned to read with comic books. He got a lot of pressure from school and he hated reading. And then his parents just bought him comic books. That helped a lot. He still hates reading. But he loves learning new things in programming and ICT. And when he is reading because he wants to learn something he has less problems with it. Or he listens to the audiobook. Heck you can even program you computer to read everthing out loud if you want to! And the funny thing is he also has less problems with reading in english instead of dutch (his first language). He also can't keep left and right apart (also part of dyslexia). So when we are walking and I ask him to go left or right he just points. He is 26 now and doing fine. It's just a stupid label which says nothing about how smart or clever somebody is. But it has a lot of negative associations.
While I appreciate and absolutely am on board with expanding our definitions of school, I think it’s worth noting that this kind of unschooling is not accessible to a lot of families. Namely those from poorer or underserved communities. It’s not always possible for parents to become primary educators in their kids lives in addition to full time jobs. And there are certain extracurricular opportunities available through “traditional” school that families may otherwise not be able to afford
Have she been tested for dyslexia? We tested one of our boys because he was writing numbers backwards, always punishing shoes on the wrong foot, and we found out he actually had a slight learning disability. Math was always so hard for him, he’s a one on one learner, didn’t do great on a group class. Now as an adult he’s working for a graphic design company, loves to read and from my three boys he’s the most organized and his room is spotless. We never pushed him to get great grades, he finished college at his own pace.
I really needed to hear this today. I'm a first time homeschool parent to a ten and five year old. I lost my temper and we both were totally frustrated over rounding numbers in math. Her understanding how to round numbers is not more important than her feeling smart and confident. In the big scheme of things, most of what they are being taught is never used with the majority of people. I don't think my husband would be on board with "unschooling" but it definitely fits the way I want to view learning. You both made a lot of great points. My question to you both is, how do you prevent them just wanting to watch tv all day? That's what mine would do if I let them. What ways could I open that door for them to learn if they are not seeking anything?
Dyscalculia is a challenge. Abstract math concepts can be challenging. Students with dyslexia are bright. School would be hard. My daughter had to work 2x harder than her peers. Filia is an amazing child and she will blossom and grow despite her learning difference.
Bummer missing the live. Your video cut out around 49:00 to black screen. The stuff you said about art was affirming to me as an artist. I home schooled, and mine had lots of trouble early on with apd, and spd. Its okto say disability, just not to a person. Teaching math in using real life is challenging but possible. Your both great at this, dont second guess, and don’t set yourself a fire Ben!
I agree with labels and letting them be a strength versus something that brings them down.. I also agree with getting help for her or yourselves so that you can understand how to teach her or for her to understand how to go about learning something she is passionate enough to want to learn.
Another question is the ineffectiveness with the kid that has a difficult time learning or with us who have a difficult time teaching using the same techniques that has worked for others when we all are unique and the same does not work for all of us ever We need more options
I'm pro homeschool, pro public school, and sorta pro unschooled (as long as children are given opportunity to learn and grow like your family is providing...but I know some unschoolers do not give their kids the resources) Mostly I'm Pro happy babies and happy families. :) Enjoyed today's episode.
I understand and respect the decisions you’ve made as family. I totally get that traditional school is a dead end for many. But, having said that, learning becomes increasingly harder as you age due to decreased brain plasticity. You know, the “use it or lose it” rule that occurs while your brain becomes hardwired. Scholarly articles and research have shown that once a child reaches the age of 12, their language learning section of the brain (wernickes area in the cerebral cortex) becomes more or less conceptualized. This is all to say, learning to read later in life is going to be difficult and frustrating for many. I’m not saying it can’t be done, obviously many people have successfully learned late in life, but I could imagine this is something that may be very irritating later on. Just something to think about, I’m sure you’ve already discussed this. As someone who has learning difficulties who is in their senior year of college and about to start my masters program, I am very thankful that I was (forced albeit) given the tools to learn how to read early on. I wish you the best of luck with your education journey 💕
So much to say but I’m seeing this a year later. I would love to hear an update on filia and how she’s doing with her relationship to reading and her skills and assets. Her love of art is cool and I share that with her and I think Eden did also. Eden has some of Filia and some more analytical skills so is more left right brain balanced but I think Filia is more a right brain and may enjoy stories but not the skill of reading due to her brain flipping letters and confusing the set up of how language is laid out on a page. Does she enjoy books on audio? She has always seemed gifted to me so this makes sense. Gifted is always celebrated but to balance it out there is a deficit somewhere even if it’s not educationally but socially or mental health wise. There are balances everywhere. This was a really great chat. Wanted to tell Kamj that hindsight is 20/20 and yeah you feel regrets of educating and pressuring her but you didn’t know. You know now so just know you did what you knew.
I was shamed into math in Catholic school! Well, also a little from private school too. You two are so smaht (as we say in Boston). This is what happens when you put authenticity ahead of easy and comfortable. Peace, guys. You help me tremendously.
I knew a 20-something year old man who couldn't read. He had gone through the public school system and had continuously been passed on to the next grade by his teachers despite not meeting reading requirements. He relied on his phone to navigate the world. He would have it read texts out loud and would then use voice-to-text to reply. I think he even had an app that would help him with signs and such. I guess I just post this for Kami to point out that kids can go through the system and still not reach the "able to read" bar so don't be too hard on yourself.
Hey guys, I don't know if this would interest you but a friend of mine who is a jack of all trades and also a maker of knives and tactical tomahawks among other things makes very large, heavy ashtrays out of pressed steel. He heats it up in his forge and then uses a hydraulic press and dies to leave designs, etc., on the ashtray. I don't know if it would interest you but they are really nice. You should check them out. www.rmjtactical.com/collections/trays/products/forged-catacombs-ashtray
I totaly agree with you both! I have the same feelings and vision. But it is not about the label thought. It's about how you and she will deal with it. And the way you talk about here in this podcast is what will keep here a fairy :) Not telling here is fine. But telling here about dyslexia could also be a relieve for here. Knowing WHY she has such a hard time with reading and math. Some day there will also be people who will say to here that she just can not do these things because she was not properly homeschooled (you know..ignorant humans). It could be nice for here to be able to answer that she is just wired differently (being dyslexic) and feel totaly powerfull about that. Having the experience that she is very good at so many things and having two amazing parents supporting that and not shaming here for the things she is struggeling with.
Yes!!! My son is autistic. I always say he isnt broken and doesnt need to be fixed. She will learn to read in her own way!!! She may never be an avid reader and thats ok.
I know nothing about Dyslexia, I do know a couple bullet points on labeling that we all need to watch. Not trying to knitpick but just making you aware, remember, you ARENT this or that, you HAVE this or that. remembering that will help the person, ie you arent the flu, you have the flu. You arent anxious, you are feeling anxiety, you arent dilexic, you are reading differently. Im pretty sure this how you believe too, just a gentle reminder when you chat with people about Felia's growth... carry on my friends
My dyslexic Dad was shamed by the public school system and never quite got over it. The teachers themselves didn't know shit about it, there was no one to mentor him. He couldn't just not do school although he left early. So it's moments like these that I wish my partner believed in homeschooling 😅 And @Kami I remember you picking up on her struggle and am glad you didn't just keep pushing.
Both my partner and I are dyslexic, both of us I would say are very successful adults. We both love audio books. I love to read regular books too, that enthusiasm for was brought on because my mom would read to me and dad just had a bunch of books. It just takes me a lot longer to read through books.
I don't like all these labels because it comes with a lot of heavy sighing and expensive assessments & stress for parents and kid & makes it sound like the individual has a disease,when its not! There are so many geniuses of the art/science world that the whole planet benefits from while in a typical school would be called disabled learners or whatever the term may be.We should be seeing these kids for what they are and the areas in which their talents shine. What's WRONG with us?!
Call it a learning difference and it is a little better... I have dyslexia, disorder of written expression, and ADHD and definitely think we are all different. We just need a different way to learn. My kids are nuerodivergent too, one has ADHD and autism, and one has autism and dyslexia. They did great once we found how THEY learn;) we don’t do public school, they go to an approved private and a tech school split time. They love it;)
Does Filia WANT to learn to read? Does NOT knowing how to read well make her feel bad about herself? Are her peers in the neighborhood making fun of her? I think helping her learn in the way that HER mind works will help in the long run (and not just with reading) because she will know how to approach learning new things throughout her life and not feel inadequate or "not smart enough". IF SHE wants it. Otherwise you are just going to be in constant battles. Does she NEED to know how to read? No. But will not knowing how to read be a detriment in any way for her in the future, in the world inwhich we live?
The USA spends WAY too much of repetitive over teaching year after year after year. I have a son with ADHD and PDD, NOS and pulled him out of public school in ninth grade. We did a lot more unschooling than schooling and he’s now at the University of Maryland majoring in computer science. Go figure.
Thank you for being real and for telling it like it is. As a home school mom, I felt pressured to be the "perfect" teacher and fit into the very mold that I was trying to break. Pressure is now off.
@@allison7869 I had a good experience with public school- this hyperbolic thread is really fascinating. I didn't even go to what one would call a "good" school and I'm not saying it was perfect by any means but of course I learned and remember plenty of things from school and it prepared me for college. I learned all the usual subjects and got a great science and math education. I took programming my senior year and then went on to college and got a computer science degree, which has definitely helped me in my career, not to mention college was a great time to gain independence, meet new people, try new things. I took my education really seriously, studied hard, always did my homework and read what was asked of me. I find that people who didn't do that don't have the same reflection of their school days. Not saying that is true for you, but curious what school you did go to, maybe it just really sucked?
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Just anecdotally, our dyslexic 10 year old was so relieved that there was an actual 'thing' impacting his brain that it actually propelled him forward with progress. We initially didn't tell him he learned differently, we just switched up our methods but he wanted the information and heightened self-awareness that came from the 'label'. You have great kids, each beautifully unique. This was a great podcast!! ❤️
I can agree with this. It was helpful to both my daughter and I to recognize the challenges she was having were because of ADD. It also helped to research how her brain is likely working and gave me tools to help.
I also agree with this sentiment. It made a world of difference to not only my daughter when we realized she has ADHD, but even more so for myself realizing I had it as an adult. My entire life made so much more sense than it ever had before. I always felt stupid, even though I know I'm not. I'm fairly intelligent actually, but because of the difficulties I've had because of adhd, I had this impression that I was just a failure. Now it all makes sense, and I know my brain just works differently, but by no means does that classify me as dumb or a failure. A diagnosis literally changed my life. It also makes me so hopeful for my daughter because my mom had no clue, so I just figured out how to cope. With my daughter though we are actually getting help, and figuring out healthy ways to cope. Its awesome.
i agree. it felt good to know that my life had been the way it had been because of my autism, rather than just not understanding at all why it was so different compared to others. harder mostly.
Filia reminds me a lot of myself when I was younger. I used to spend hours making very intricate drawings (often staying in during recess to finish them, well after other kids had left), I loved to climb and use my body, and was very curious and inquisitive about the world. I also couldn’t read. I was diagnosed with Dyslexia in 3rd grade after I made a C in writing and composition. After that, my parents sent me to a reading clinic that specialized in Orton-Gillingham three times a week for a year. After that I continued to attend the reading clinic every week for two more years. I was very ashamed of being Dyslexic, and hid where I went after school from my friends well into middle school. Even into late middle school it was physically difficult for me to say that I was Dyslexic.
My cousin (same age as me) was also diagnosed with Dyslexia, but was diagnosed in 5th grade. She received occasional tutoring (< once per week) for about a year.
By the time I entered high school I was a voracious reader and excelled on the Speech and Debate Team. To this day, my cousin continues to struggle with reading and self-esteem in academic settings. I say this because I don’t think that labels hurt self-esteem per se, but that that inability to overcome these labels does cause issues with self-esteem.
I would be very wary of backing off of reading. Just because someone has difficulty learning something, or learns it in a different way, doesn’t mean that they won’t ultimately really enjoy it. Often antipathy or apathy come from the frustration of being forced to learn something in a counterintuitive and confusing way, and not from the actual subject matter itself.
During tutoring, I memorized hundreds of roots and affixes of words. While this was sometimes tedious and frustrating, it was instrumental in my learning to read. For many Dyslexics, memorization and relational reasoning are significantly easier than traditional language acquisition methods. It has been theorized that this is why many Dyslexics are much better at learning Mandarin than Western languages, as the structure of the Hanzi characters emphasize spatial and relational reasoning much more than languages based on the Latin alphabet (interestingly, learning the roots and affixes of words mirrors learning the radicals in Hanzi characters).
One other thing I would be wary of is binary thinking. Often our culture explains the world through oppositional binaries: Humanities vs. STEM, physical vs. mental, big picture vs. detail, emotional vs. rational. I think that most of the time when we examine these, we find that they are false dichotomies. There is no reason a person can’t both enjoy storytelling and science, no reason that someone who feels deeply can’t also think precisely, no reason that someone who enjoys inhabiting their body can’t also enjoy inhabiting their mind. Sometimes we are better at one or the other, but I don’t think that being inclined towards one of these causes you to be less inclined to the other.
I guess I would conclude by urging everyone to understand that just because the standard way of doing something doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean that that thing isn’t for you. While reading once caused me feelings of anxiety and inferiority, now it nourishes my curiosity and helps me find beauty in the world. If Filia is anything like me, $300 dollars for a course is more than worth it.
I second all of this wholeheartedly! From another voracious dyslexic reader! Also, the struggle itself, when looked at correctly, can end up being an incredible gift in life. I now truly know I can do what ever I put my mind to because of my experience learning to read. And I am proud of it and the strength it took to do it.
As a child I was severely dyslexic. My first grade teacher called me stupid. Then in 5th grade some kids stole my report card and read it allowed to the class. It was humiliating. My parents often yelled at me for being so behind. That had a major impact on my self esteem. I still struggle with that but now I own my own photography business and make a quarter of a million dollars a year. Not that money is everything but I hate when people put so much emphasis on traditional education. It can be harmful for some kids and is not the only answer to being a successful adult.
I understand you. I hated Fridays in English class because we would have to read outloud. I remember counting to figure out which paragraph I would have to read and if there was words I didn't know... I would go home "sick." What was worse was when a student who read got to pick the next student who read because I had no way of knowing when it would be my turn to read.
@@allison7869 I would do the same thing. So stressful. I always felt like I was the only kids in my school to struggle in these areas. Only now as an adult do realize how many other kids went through very similar things.
Dyscalcula/dysgraphia/dyslexia can all go hand in hand but aren’t the same. It can make typical learning really hard but kids with those learning differences are really bright and they learn amazing compensatory skills by necessity.
This episode helped me grasp how a friend with ADHD may have felt throughout her youth, in school, and now also following into adulthood. Thank you for the introspective prompts. I enjoyed listening :)
I'm dyslexic and was homeschooled. My mom painstakingly taught me to read (lots of tears- Barton was not for me)- to which I'm thankful but more importantly she didn't limit me in the things I was good at because of the things I struggled with. When I got to college I got tested for dyslexia to be able to get books on tape and the test showed that my reading level was at the level of the average person but because everything else was higher than that I was classified as dyslexia. What I think was really good and helped me was she read to me all the time. I listen to audiobooks. Which instilled in me the love of learning things through books. I love audible, from text to speech- which take long things typed out and it creates a audiobook for me and Grammarly. I now read for the pleasure of it granted it takes a long time but the more I do it and not let myself burn out the longer and faster I find myself being able to read. You said it perfectly don't let the negative "things" define her let her know it's a part of who she is so she doesn't bang her head trying to figure out why it's harder.
I would be afraid not gaining a basic knowledge of reading would become highly frustrating as she gets older. Is it an absolute necessity, no. Having a home with running water is not an absolute necessity, but it sure a lot easier than lugging water from a well or not having a flushing toilet. I see it like being in a foreign country permanently and not knowing the language. Sure she could use audio books and such, but what happens when she can’t read a basic legal document or a job application? What if she just wants to sit down and read a blog or an article?
I strongly believe that Filia will know how to read before she is an adult. Most who struggle with dyslexia figure it out. It might not be until shes 12 or 13 or 16 or 18. But she will get it. She will still live a happy and fulfilling life no matter her reading ability. She has accomplished more than most adults.
@@allison7869 I’m sure she will. I can’t imagine what it would have been like to be Beethoven and deaf pursuing music or Helen Keller pursuing reading and an education. However, they proved everyone wrong and demonstrated that certain limitations don’t limit your dreams.
I think living anywhere in the developed world requires a certain level of reading. Basic banking, emails, menus, movie theatres, instructions and directions for so many things are written, map reading and street signs, exits on the freeway, googling stuff and finding your videos on RUclips for example! Always open to have my mind changed, or at least to be enlightened, so please share your thoughts on the need for basic reading skills in our culture.
I agree. My daughter is dyslexic and I always called it a learning difference because her brain is wired differently.
Hey, school psychology grad student here! I have had a ton of course work on learning disabilities, assessment, and more. First the in our courses no matter the disability we are encouraged to use person-first language. So we say "a kid with dyslexia" instead of a dyslexic kid. This is done to help avoid what you brought up a couple of times with the idea of being stuck as "dyslexic forever". We are also encouraged to put a kid in the least restrictive environment so whatever way that the kid can have as socially regular as possible especially early on. I will say this about the idea of being "normal" and having a disability. It is hard. It is hard to not jump the gun for a third or fourth grader and not have at least a couple kids that are not kind. It is so hard to deal with that. The difference here is that there are generally more resources available to a child ex: reading specialists, teachers aids, and people like what I hope to do creating and implementing interventions to aid in giving a kid as many choices and abilities as possible. Not trying to sound like a suit here but there is definitely tons of research to back up the idea of labels and creating support systems for those labels
@@heathercadenhead yes but this is in reference to mental health specifically as it relates to your latter example. In relation to ASD it’s a case by case basis and considered more professional to use people first language first if you do not know a preference.
@@heathercadenhead just finished up with the article and I respectfully disagree
@@heathercadenhead Yes, I think that promoting and claiming your identity is fine and can be empowering. The problem is when you come into a job like mine where you have to explain a concept like that to a 4-year-old who has ASD when the kids in class make fun of him. It's not fair to those populations to just force them to understand a complex idea of embracing who you are and honestly is cognitively impossible. Should an adult person be free to do that and follow an advocacy group's advice? sure, but when you have a long personal reflection like what you linked talking about it and not taking into consideration the most vulnerable of the populations I would disagree with the article on a fundamental level.
Also, side note I just wanted to defend my point. I have little to no faith that you will change your mind based on a comment section discussion with me. I will continue my life based on the framework that I have built it on and I am nearly certain you will as well and that is okay with me. Truly I hope the best for you and I appreciate that enthusiasm and discourse.
I like how Filia crushed the Appalachian trail and did 3 marathons. Most impressive!
I have a reading disability. I'm currently 21 years old and just graduated collage on the deans list. I don't have Dyslexia but something similar and less common. To this day I test as having the reading level of a 3rd grader... in other words, I can not read. However, as you said in the video, you do not need to read in this world. I have many friends who can read with ease and yet never do. last year I "read" 25 books Including 2000 Miles Together. I think its more important to teach kids to have goals and desires then it is to teach them skills they my never need. The school system found out I had a disability when I was 9 years old. They never found out how to teach me. I was lucky enough to have a few great teachers in high school who focused on teaching me how to work around my disability instead of trying to work the same way as other kids. Looking back (and now being a teacher who specializes in special needs myself) I only wish I had someone who supported me much sooner and not just focused on the system. I think homeschooling or Unschooling is a much better way to teach kids then any public school system. Your teaching kids to be themselves and not just an employee of someone else.
Wow this episode was great! Also, I love how slow y'all talk, it is very soothing. when y'all said go find your people, i was like: you are my people.
I appreciate your conversation about this, and it is thought provoking. Sometimes you present as very black and white when this can be such a gray area. As a parent, sometimes we have to predict what our kids might WANT in the future or what might bring them more joy. (as opposed to what they NEED according to society) I have a son with autism: I had to choose therapies when he was younger that would increase his ability to interact with the world/with us in the future and give him a chance to express himself when he had a limited vocabulary. This early intervention was SO helpful in helping teach him to express himself and identify his emotions. There were other therapies that I ditched early on: ones that tried to make him conform to societal standards and treated his autism as a condition that needed to be fixed. His autism makes him who he is, it is how his brain is wired and he didn't need to be changed. However, if I let it go completely, just let him go without any intervention, he would have been so stunted in many ways.
Our youngest (15 years old) was tested for Dyslexia & ADHD in 3rd grade. That was the year we pulled her out of public school. We spent the first year homeschooling (not even deschooling) and then went to deschooling because homeschooling was just as stressful as public school. After that first year of deschooling after homeschooling, I started reading about unschooling and unraveling our “norms” to find a out of the box style of learning for our kids. During that time we saw our daughter’s creative & intuitive abilities blossom. It was fucking mind blowing. My parents never fostered my creativity so it has been a beautiful thing to give space for our daughter to grow. We have been so much more open minded as a family during this process. Learning new things, growing our own food, creating, selling our home and 80% of belongings to live tiny in the mountains, run marathons, hike, etc. Living life!
I grew up not knowing I had ADD and Dyslexia, I always felt different and alone, when I found out I had ADD and Dyslexia I got answers and it opened me up. It made me understand myself and gave me the outlet to find my own way of learning. It's like that saying you can't teach a fish to fly. Well if a fish is constantly dreaming to be just like the bird then it believes something is wrong with it but if you tell the fish hey it looks like you can't be a bird because you're a fish. The fish won't stop trying to fly all together it will just stop looking at the fins, wishing they were wings instead of the fish will workout and grow its fins become a flying fish. As long as flying was this fish's goal that is if flying was actually not serving the fish then the fish will instead become a deep-sea diver.
While I watched your AT vlogs, I was entirely taken with your whole family. But it was Eden and Filia who rose to the top as the most intriguing characters. Eden provoked the camera to find a smile, yet it was obvious she had pushed her chips all-in on the trip as she always met her responsibilities and far exceeded. But it was Filia who truly was the central character of the stage. She never complained or introduced any of the natural drama, but rather was always soaring above the details as she set out trail twig signs and berry markers all the while carrying a pack nearly half her size. The way she connected with Fresh Grounds and the Ultra-runner (Can’t remember his name from the 24hr race) showed she is a young lady far beyond her age. I have a dear friend who is dyslexic and it’s the least important thing about him. You keep living life Filia!
You should look up the book The Gift of dyslexia. These kids have such skills and gifts. This is not a disability. It’s an ability. But they do need to read. Barton was great for my son. I was not near as strict as the videos and directions wanted. And we only made it to level 3. We sometimes worked just ten minutes a day. He could not read at age ten and I pulled him from 4th grade public school. I promised him I would never make him go to school ever again. It took a year for him not to cry when we drove past the school. Such emotional damage. We did nothing for 5th grade. He just followed his passion of theater. He listened to books on tape. He played, roamed in the woods, shoveled snow, chopped firewood, dug holes, and countless other things. Throughout high school we created “classes” out of life. My son is now 22 and just told me he loves to learn. I credit that to unschooling and letting him follow his passions and just chilling out. But I did teach him to read. I believe he would have been angry with me had I not helped him to learn to read. When he learned to type at age 11 he was suddenly able to express his great creativity that previously had been “stuck in his arm” because writing was so hard. Out came amazing stories with the help of spell check and Grammerly. He’s in college now getting great grades and contemplating becoming a doctor. He has started using Kahn Academy to work on some math skills, knowing he will need them. He is a top notch soccer referee who gets paid quite well for his time. He has such amazing big picture abilities that have helped him be the assistant director in several film productions. He is often called on to stage manage theater productions. He teaches himself whatever he needs to know to do whatever he wants to do. BUT, he is thankful that he can read. Reading is a life skill. It opens all the doors to what a person wants in life. Dyslexics can learn to read. They need to learn to read. In there timing. Just last year at age 21 my son had an amazing realization that words can be pronounced by their syllables. That is something I have been trying to get him to realize for years. These kids are late bloomers. Support her, love her, let her follow her passions, but teach her to read. Teach her to use her resources to assist where she falls short. Grammerly, voice to text, many other options. She has gifts and passions. Help her to follow them by helping her read.
Nodding my head the whole time. So many words of wisdom. My favourite was "it's not an impediment, it's actually her fuel, the fact that she doesn't gravitate to written words gives her the energy to be captivated by all these other things that I'm not able to see or create" So well said. Please keep sharing these videos. As a mom who wanted to let go and unschool my homeschooled kids but held too many fears to not push, this was what I needed to hear those many years ago. If this inspires other families then you've helped unleash some beautiful humans.
My parents found out I was hard of hearing when I was 2. They never treated me like I was different and most people who know me have no idea that I wear hearing aids to this day. I think it's good that I have awareness of my differences, but also know that it doesn't rule my life.
I loved hearing Eden's and Seven's story. I was in school since I was 2 weeks old (my mom is school teacher so she toke me with her right away), I did great in school, good grades and all. And only when I left school did I realize that I didn't know how to be without it! I didn't learn to push myself, or how to learn, or how to have empathy towards others, I just did enough for every class and followed the rules. And without any of that I had to learn how to make a schedule and have my own goals, and how to work on them, and all these things. School just taught me to relax and do nothing when I wasn't in school! And that was a terrible thing to learn.
I loved hearing about your story and your book "Unleash your family" was also a great resource to help me get my life together and value myself for who I am.
I have an unschooled kid who everyone diagnosed as dyslexic and told me so, without my asking or interest. Grannies, aunties, friends, strangers, etc. He wasn’t reading or printing “at grade level” when it came to school years, so all those same holier-than-thou diagnosers and finger-wavers told me he was at a disadvantage and would suffer as he grew older and was behind his peers. Then one day after not being able to read Pokémon cards when he was trading with his friends, he started to read. Now he reads above that magic “grade level” and knows when he prints something backwards or transposes a word. If he were in school, he would’ve been labeled as dyslexic and ADHD, but being that he’s not in school he can bounce around all he wants, climb trees, hike up mountains, swim across lakes, and read a book on topics he loves, like survival and plants and mythical beasts, and not just some dumbed down reader in school, where he would be raised up *being* his diagnoses instead of never even using the words or suffering for them. Filia rocks at being a human, and that is what counts.
As soon as I stopped listening to my child's school, peace returned to our home.
As a former RSP teacher, who also lives with level 3 ADHD combined type and depression, I have never seen a child with any of these diagnoses as learning disabled. I see them as learning differences. Because, honestly that’s all that it is. There isn’t anything wrong with their ability to learn, just how the information is taken in. Please take some time to understand how it affect a child’s executive function. This will help down the road to keep battles down to a minimum. There are so many things that people with ADHD experience in their thought processes and they have no idea that it isn’t what other people experience. My favorite shirt says “ADHD: We think more things before breakfast than most people think all day.”
Kami is such a great conversationalist. She is an attuned listener bringing her own imagination and insights to Ben's foil. It makes these podcasts so productive, interesting and stimulating. It makes me think along with you.
My 13yo is severely dyslexic and actually is now our most well-read and our most creative writer. In their case it was definitely not a disability, just different wiring. He has incredible strengths in other areas due to having dyslexia. It was beneficial to know. Barton Reading and Spelling is great (side by side) and geared towards teens/ESL - but works with younger student too. I guess it depends on how you want to approach it. In our case, not reading was holding my son back from what he wanted to do, so he had the drive to go through lessons. He's an interest led learner too.
I thought it was really interesting when kami was talking about making filia read to feel better about herself for having filia meet her “bar”, but that just made me wonder whether reading is something filia wants to be able to do, but the way you guys were teaching her before just make it really unenjoyable because that way of learning didn’t work for her, or if she genuinely does not want to read
I was/am super dyslexic. I can not spell to save my life and couldn't read to myself until 6th grade. At the beginning of first grade, my teacher told my mother she thought I was brilliant/should likely skip a grade. By the end of the year, the same teacher said I might never learn to read. When I was assessed in 2nd grade with an IEP, I had horrible math and spelling results but college-level reading compression. Despite school being incredibly difficult for me, I can’t even express how hard it was sometimes; I actually really liked school because I was blessed with living in an area of the country with progressive schools, and I LOVE ideas and stories and learning. I often connected well with my teachers. My parents always explained that the part I was having trouble with was the mere mechanics of things, not the concept or ideas. That it was just the details to work out on the side, not the essential central part. I grew up to go to film school and become a documentary filmmaker/editor and then early childhood educator. My Dyslexia is a significant gift in both my fields, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. My intelligence and creativity are my dyslexia, because really it's just an incredibly uneek and comprehensive way of thinking. I would be happy to talk to you more about this if you want.
A lot of labels come from requiring a label to receive support needed for “success” success to me is different for everyone. There is a ton of support to help your daughter feel more confident in her abilities. Also, dyslexia doesn’t have to be a bad label. Make it into a positive. Show her how it makes her unique and show her all of those positives you see. I will tell you I am on the autism spectrum and have ADD and didn’t learn this information until I was 23. My parents knew I hit many of the marks for both of these but never told me. As an adult I had frustration and anger that they didn’t tell me. For so long I knew I was different and processed things differently, but never understood why others didn’t think the way I thought. Instead of celebrating those differences I had, my parents hid it. It made me feel ashamed of these labels even though as a special education teacher I celebrate my students differences and strengths. Instead of hiding it from her show her what she can do and show her that it is ok that she struggles to read, give her resources to help her feel more confident in weaker areas. But don’t make it into a negative. Celebrate those differences!
Even though I don't necessarily agree with everything, this was really an eye opener. In fifth grade, the teachers recommended that my twin sister should skip sixth grade and jump directly to seventh grade. My mother decided to keep her in fifth grade because of me. That left me with: 1. a lot of guilt as I thought I was holding my sister back. 2. the perception that I was stupid. I wasn't -I just wasn't on the same academic level as my sister.. I was very creative but no one took me aside and told me. For many years I thought I was stupid. I'm starting to question whether the educational system is just standardising young people to fit into a society and a future that we really don't have any control over.
This conversation feels super timely for me. I feel really in line with seeing our children through a multifaceted lense.
Also I kept thinking about all the amazing accessibility options that exsists for so many alterly abled individuals.
A microphone with voice to text could yield lots of bunny drawing tutorials on RUclips 😄
Both of my kids are dyslexic- It’s terrible how they can be made to feel “stupid” and to be given labels too. I always told they are smart and just learn things differently.
This worked for me- Tactile learning helps with dyslexia- we wrote many words and math problems on the side walk or on paper with sand paper behind it.
Also lots of Audible books - they also had their tests read to them instead of them reading the questions
Hank Zipster books - are about a kid with dyslexia - kinda fun to read with the kids since they could relate to them
Kudos to you for thinking of helping her thrive and not labeling
Public schools completely let me down. I feel like even when I was interested in a certain subject, I failed to be taught anything. I wasted so much life waiting for the instructor & students to socialize or organize. We relearned the same things multiple times. Even after 12 years, I learned nothing useful. I can write slightly better, but I was born with that natural talent. I knew nothing about taxes, business, loans, politics, anything. I’ve learned it all from RUclips.
I'm into my late 40s. And have had a learning disability all my life. At least that's what they tell me. I don't believe I learn any in all my school years. I don't believe I even read my fust book until way after school. But I'm doing alright in life. Some days are better than others ; )
I'm still working on my post Algebra self-esteem.
I have ADHD inattentive type, and used Stevenson learning skills for reading . It helped so much and I finally understood after a lot of trial and error.
Thanks for this conversation. The labeling sucks but schools do it so kids can get support. They can’t get that extra help they might need in the classroom without the label. Since Filia isn’t in a traditional classroom I wouldn’t worry about it. Learning differences can make for very strong students. One of my favorite piano students had dyslexia. She pretty much had to memorize pieces. It was amazing to watch her release herself from the music staff on the page and feel the music. She played with more freedom than any student I’ve ever had. From watching Filia sort and classify things in nature from your videos, I wonder if that part of her brain is shootin’ fireworks because that’s what it does best. Maybe reading will always be a struggle but that math and science area is going to be off the charts. Some families I’ve seen support their kid’s struggles with reading by making an audio book available as well as the physical book. They read and listen at the same time. You guys think through situations. I’m sure you’ll make the decisions that support her. Enjoyed this so much.
One more thing, you may want to consider getting comprehensive testing done. The results do not mean any one thing per say, nore do they mean you have to do anything specifically. However they may help you get a window into her brains way if doing things and can help her if she ever did decide to enter traditional school (even college).
Great podcast!! I loved it :) my boyfriend is dyslexic and he learned to read with comic books. He got a lot of pressure from school and he hated reading. And then his parents just bought him comic books. That helped a lot.
He still hates reading. But he loves learning new things in programming and ICT. And when he is reading because he wants to learn something he has less problems with it. Or he listens to the audiobook. Heck you can even program you computer to read everthing out loud if you want to!
And the funny thing is he also has less problems with reading in english instead of dutch (his first language). He also can't keep left and right apart (also part of dyslexia). So when we are walking and I ask him to go left or right he just points. He is 26 now and doing fine. It's just a stupid label which says nothing about how smart or clever somebody is. But it has a lot of negative associations.
While I appreciate and absolutely am on board with expanding our definitions of school, I think it’s worth noting that this kind of unschooling is not accessible to a lot of families. Namely those from poorer or underserved communities. It’s not always possible for parents to become primary educators in their kids lives in addition to full time jobs. And there are certain extracurricular opportunities available through “traditional” school that families may otherwise not be able to afford
Have she been tested for dyslexia? We tested one of our boys because he was writing numbers backwards, always punishing shoes on the wrong foot, and we found out he actually had a slight learning disability. Math was always so hard for him, he’s a one on one learner, didn’t do great on a group class. Now as an adult he’s working for a graphic design company, loves to read and from my three boys he’s the most organized and his room is spotless. We never pushed him to get great grades, he finished college at his own pace.
I really needed to hear this today. I'm a first time homeschool parent to a ten and five year old. I lost my temper and we both were totally frustrated over rounding numbers in math. Her understanding how to round numbers is not more important than her feeling smart and confident. In the big scheme of things, most of what they are being taught is never used with the majority of people. I don't think my husband would be on board with "unschooling" but it definitely fits the way I want to view learning. You both made a lot of great points. My question to you both is, how do you prevent them just wanting to watch tv all day? That's what mine would do if I let them. What ways could I open that door for them to learn if they are not seeking anything?
Dyscalculia is a challenge. Abstract math concepts can be challenging. Students with dyslexia are bright. School would be hard. My daughter had to work 2x harder than her peers. Filia is an amazing child and she will blossom and grow despite her learning difference.
Bummer missing the live. Your video cut out around 49:00 to black screen. The stuff you said about art was affirming to me as an artist. I home schooled, and mine had lots of trouble early on with apd, and spd. Its okto say disability, just not to a person. Teaching math in using real life is challenging but possible. Your both great at this, dont second guess, and don’t set yourself a fire Ben!
I agree with labels and letting them be a strength versus something that brings them down.. I also agree with getting help for her or yourselves so that you can understand how to teach her or for her to understand how to go about learning something she is passionate enough to want to learn.
Just finished the AT book. Very nicely done!
Another question is the ineffectiveness with the kid that has a difficult time learning or with us who have a difficult time teaching using the same techniques that has worked for others when we all are unique and the same does not work for all of us ever We need more options
I'm pro homeschool, pro public school, and sorta pro unschooled (as long as children are given opportunity to learn and grow like your family is providing...but I know some unschoolers do not give their kids the resources) Mostly I'm Pro happy babies and happy families. :) Enjoyed today's episode.
I understand and respect the decisions you’ve made as family. I totally get that traditional school is a dead end for many. But, having said that, learning becomes increasingly harder as you age due to decreased brain plasticity. You know, the “use it or lose it” rule that occurs while your brain becomes hardwired. Scholarly articles and research have shown that once a child reaches the age of 12, their language learning section of the brain (wernickes area in the cerebral cortex) becomes more or less conceptualized. This is all to say, learning to read later in life is going to be difficult and frustrating for many. I’m not saying it can’t be done, obviously many people have successfully learned late in life, but I could imagine this is something that may be very irritating later on. Just something to think about, I’m sure you’ve already discussed this. As someone who has learning difficulties who is in their senior year of college and about to start my masters program, I am very thankful that I was (forced albeit) given the tools to learn how to read early on. I wish you the best of luck with your education journey 💕
Thanks for the kind feedback - Ben
So much to say but I’m seeing this a year later. I would love to hear an update on filia and how she’s doing with her relationship to reading and her skills and assets. Her love of art is cool and I share that with her and I think Eden did also. Eden has some of Filia and some more analytical skills so is more left right brain balanced but I think Filia is more a right brain and may enjoy stories but not the skill of reading due to her brain flipping letters and confusing the set up of how language is laid out on a page. Does she enjoy books on audio?
She has always seemed gifted to me so this makes sense. Gifted is always celebrated but to balance it out there is a deficit somewhere even if it’s not educationally but socially or mental health wise. There are balances everywhere.
This was a really great chat. Wanted to tell Kamj that hindsight is 20/20 and yeah you feel regrets of educating and pressuring her but you didn’t know. You know now so just know you did what you knew.
I was shamed into math in Catholic school! Well, also a little from private school too. You two are so smaht (as we say in Boston). This is what happens when you put authenticity ahead of easy and comfortable. Peace, guys. You help me tremendously.
I knew a 20-something year old man who couldn't read. He had gone through the public school system and had continuously been passed on to the next grade by his teachers despite not meeting reading requirements. He relied on his phone to navigate the world. He would have it read texts out loud and would then use voice-to-text to reply. I think he even had an app that would help him with signs and such. I guess I just post this for Kami to point out that kids can go through the system and still not reach the "able to read" bar so don't be too hard on yourself.
Hey guys, I don't know if this would interest you but a friend of mine who is a jack of all trades and also a maker of knives and tactical tomahawks among other things makes very large, heavy ashtrays out of pressed steel. He heats it up in his forge and then uses a hydraulic press and dies to leave designs, etc., on the ashtray. I don't know if it would interest you but they are really nice. You should check them out. www.rmjtactical.com/collections/trays/products/forged-catacombs-ashtray
Wow. Those are cool!
I totaly agree with you both! I have the same feelings and vision. But it is not about the label thought. It's about how you and she will deal with it. And the way you talk about here in this podcast is what will keep here a fairy :) Not telling here is fine. But telling here about dyslexia could also be a relieve for here. Knowing WHY she has such a hard time with reading and math. Some day there will also be people who will say to here that she just can not do these things because she was not properly homeschooled (you know..ignorant humans). It could be nice for here to be able to answer that she is just wired differently (being dyslexic) and feel totaly powerfull about that. Having the experience that she is very good at so many things and having two amazing parents supporting that and not shaming here for the things she is struggeling with.
Yes!!! My son is autistic. I always say he isnt broken and doesnt need to be fixed.
She will learn to read in her own way!!! She may never be an avid reader and thats ok.
I know nothing about Dyslexia, I do know a couple bullet points on labeling that we all need to watch. Not trying to knitpick but just making you aware, remember, you ARENT this or that, you HAVE this or that. remembering that will help the person, ie you arent the flu, you have the flu. You arent anxious, you are feeling anxiety, you arent dilexic, you are reading differently. Im pretty sure this how you believe too, just a gentle reminder when you chat with people about Felia's growth... carry on my friends
My dyslexic Dad was shamed by the public school system and never quite got over it. The teachers themselves didn't know shit about it, there was no one to mentor him. He couldn't just not do school although he left early. So it's moments like these that I wish my partner believed in homeschooling 😅
And @Kami I remember you picking up on her struggle and am glad you didn't just keep pushing.
New podcast. Stoked.
Both my partner and I are dyslexic, both of us I would say are very successful adults. We both love audio books. I love to read regular books too, that enthusiasm for was brought on because my mom would read to me and dad just had a bunch of books. It just takes me a lot longer to read through books.
I don't like all these labels because it comes with a lot of heavy sighing and expensive assessments & stress for parents and kid & makes it sound like the individual has a disease,when its not! There are so many geniuses of the art/science world that the whole planet benefits from while in a typical school would be called disabled learners or whatever the term may be.We should be seeing these kids for what they are and the areas in which their talents shine.
What's WRONG with us?!
glad to see the goat Holy roller Ben is doing well!
There are several different learning styles and the one the school system uses it the worst. Our system dummy downs
Wait. What is Seven's job?
And 7 earning $30 an hour working from home without 1 day in school.
That’s so awesome for your son! What kind of job does he have?
Call it a learning difference and it is a little better... I have dyslexia, disorder of written expression, and ADHD and definitely think we are all different. We just need a different way to learn. My kids are nuerodivergent too, one has ADHD and autism, and one has autism and dyslexia. They did great once we found how THEY learn;) we don’t do public school, they go to an approved private and a tech school split time. They love it;)
Does Filia WANT to learn to read? Does NOT knowing how to read well make her feel bad about herself? Are her peers in the neighborhood making fun of her? I think helping her learn in the way that HER mind works will help in the long run (and not just with reading) because she will know how to approach learning new things throughout her life and not feel inadequate or "not smart enough". IF SHE wants it. Otherwise you are just going to be in constant battles. Does she NEED to know how to read? No. But will not knowing how to read be a detriment in any way for her in the future, in the world inwhich we live?
The USA spends WAY too much of repetitive over teaching year after year after year. I have a son with ADHD and PDD, NOS and pulled him out of public school in ninth grade. We did a lot more unschooling than schooling and he’s now at the University of Maryland majoring in computer science. Go figure.
Maybe she would love to read if she was taught to read like dyslexics read. I have a friend that was like your daughter and now she loves to read.
Stop pondering and take action to get help for your daughter. There are techniques that you may not be qualified to teach to help her learn to read
I mean, a week to think through and work through a new discovery seems fair. It could be that what they are doing is the best for her.
Kami, if it makes you feel better, I have a college degree and cannot tell you for the life of me what the F a proof is haha
If it helps. The word most people use intellectual disability.
Book "dyslexic advantage" may help.
Thank you for being real and for telling it like it is. As a home school mom, I felt pressured to be the "perfect" teacher and fit into the very mold that I was trying to break. Pressure is now off.
learning difficulty
Education is making people dumber? C'mon, really?
ya, really hahahhaah
@@allison7869 I had a good experience with public school- this hyperbolic thread is really fascinating. I didn't even go to what one would call a "good" school and I'm not saying it was perfect by any means but of course I learned and remember plenty of things from school and it prepared me for college. I learned all the usual subjects and got a great science and math education. I took programming my senior year and then went on to college and got a computer science degree, which has definitely helped me in my career, not to mention college was a great time to gain independence, meet new people, try new things. I took my education really seriously, studied hard, always did my homework and read what was asked of me. I find that people who didn't do that don't have the same reflection of their school days. Not saying that is true for you, but curious what school you did go to, maybe it just really sucked?
Lol Ben should quit smoking them cigars since he’s having so much difficulty to light it up
everyone had their faults and God Doesn't make junk!
Y’all literally let them be. They can smoke if they want. It doesn’t effect you
Just don't get your face too close to the screen! - Ben
I loved proofs lol #nerd
Why do u smoke? It’s bad for u