The only thing that could even remotely redeem the Catholic church would be for it to excommunicate every single one of the priests who have abused children. They must be removed from the church and handed over to the authorities to face justice. Anything less is a cowardly response.
I suspect that you illustrate, though perhaps unintentionally, the intractable nature of the problem. The debate is not whether the church can qualify for divine absolution according to its own theology, but whether the all-too-terrestrial institution of the catholic church can redeem itself in the eyes of those who accord it no sanctity, authority, or special license; the problem is that the church seems to think that it is only answerable to its own god, rather than to the people of the world who have taken note of its criminal activities, and who do not subscribe to its theological narrative. In short the question is not "Can god be persuaded to forgive these people?" but "Can these people do what is needed to make NON-CATHOLICS forgive them?"
Put bluntly: Redemption in the eyes of men is ultimately of no worth. N-o-n-e. It is not a popularity contest. It is a rejection of sin through Our Lord's perfect atonement for sin, no matter how glamorous, fashionable or *_obligatory_* sin is made out to be. Redemption is a matter between each human being and their Creator.
Verumnondominatus I see no reason think that any such creator exists, or that "sin" would be a meaningful concept even if it did. When one person hurts another, it is to the specific victim that reparations must be made, not to any hypothetical god that may be watching. If you insist on defining redemption as an atonement to a god for a sin, then you are clearly not talking about the same subject as the participants in this debate, and may well be talking about something that doesn't exist anyway. Can you demonstrate that a "creator" exists in the first place, and that sin is an applicable term? This would seem to be an imperative step if we are to discuss the matter further.
To a believer, secular law is only as valid as is its consistency with Divine Law. From the fall of the Roman Empire up until the French Revolution, Western secular law largely agreed with Divine Law. The formerly close relationship between the two systems of law lingers to this day, although with ever decreasing congruence. The nut of Divine Law is love of God and love of neighbor and justice is due to each. In the case of human injury through crime, reparations are to be made for crimes committed, abetted or willfully ignored by those committing, abetting or willfully ignoring the crimes. This has been done, or if not done to completion, then let it be so done. Redemption is not reparation. Redemption indeed is not justice. It is mercy. And as it is a Christian concept of long standing, I do insist on using the term in this context, not in the context of this debate. You may see now that is the entire point of my original posting. I hope this helps. IHS!
Verumnondominatus I appreciate your clarification of context, but the rest of what you have written is not particularly helpful, because you still haven't demonstrated that there is any such thing as "Divine Law". I feel that this needs to be sorted out before there is any point in further discussion. Can you demonstrate that there is a god and that this god has a law to impose?
It's ok if don't give any money to the church. The Catholic church will minister to you free of material charge. The Protestant churches require you to pay a tithe thas in fact was abolished in the new covenant.
@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 I recommend you learn a little about the things you talk about BEFORE you write against them. Am I wrong to believe you only know what protestants repeat "As soon as a coin in the coffer rings / the soul from purgatory springs."? But did you take a minute to learn what the meant? On the other hand, is paying tithe a requirement for you?
@@mariasoniamoreno3433I suggest you learn a little more about the fraud of Indulgences perpetrated by the church, particularly before and fueling the Reformation; further, committed by this institution to this day. It's small wonder how the catholic church has declined in power from its monopoly the past 5 centuries. What protestants repeat sounds every bit as unjustified and evidentially untrue as what catholics, muslims, hindus and jews repeat. These mental prisons are in the same faith based boat; It's called faith because it's not knowledge.
@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 The power of the Catholic Church is not in the number of believers or the material wealth it possesses, but in having been founded by Jesus Christ himself and being safeguarded by his word: the gates of hell will not triumph over Jesus' Church. I believe in science. In fact, I'm a science teacher. However, there are things we don't know and choose to accept unproven explanations by faith. Did the universe spring from a single particle? Here something I found with just one simple Google search: role of the Catholic church in modern science. This is the first item it returned: "Historically, the Catholic Church has often been a patron of sciences. It has been prolific in the foundation and funding of schools, universities and hospitals, and many clergy have been active in the sciences. ... Catholic scientists, both religious and lay, have led scientific discovery in many fields."
How can you demand perfection from a church populated by sinners? How can you reject the words of our Lord when he says the gates of hell shall not prevail against it? That he will be with us always? He will not leave us orphans? The Catholic Church has faltered but has never crashed. Why? Because of the Holy Spirit. He sent the "Comforter" for a reason. To fill the apostles with the Holy Spirit to spread His teachings and sacrifice. They baptized people and filled them with the Spirit and with heavenly grace. How dare anyone doubt the magnitude and power of the Holy Spirit through claims of "apostasy." Truly those who claim apostasy are the ones practicing the loss of the fullness of truth. The Holy Spirit is mightier than any sin, thus the truth lives on through the Bride of Christ, the Catholic Church.
If the Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ then who can be against her? The fact that this Church has been here for two thousand years is a true miracle in itself...
Judge a church by what it does in private, not so much what it does in public, and if there is a problem at the bottom, chances are it's because there's a problem at the top. A tree is known by it's fruits, so examine it's fruits. The problem is that people choose churches based on what they themselves believe, so the church continues to be segregated by denomination by what they hold to be "different" from one another, but Paul was more about keeping the Church undivided by focusing on all that we have in COMMON that leads others to Christ.
There were more worst times than today in the 2000 years history of the Catholic Church and still the Catholic Church survived and flourished. Jesus Christ himself said "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". Peter is the first pope in the Roman Catholic Church. Pope Francis is very humble and has drawn many many people to the Catholic Church and will continue to do so.
My question would be this Q. Why do we actually need a system like Roman Catholicism ~ since there are lots of people who are not Catholics & would never dream of embracing such a system
Amazing to watch human beings decry the Catholic Church while standing in Christendom. Catholic church is synonomous with civilization. I suggest further study.
And you ignorantly and foolishly equate the Catholic Church with Christianity. To call Catholicism "Christianity" is to blaspheme the name of Jesus Christ. The whole world does it, and the whole world is condemned in doing so, as are you. In fact, the Roman Catholic Church is the Synagogue of Satan. And very soon, the world will witness Jesus Christ himself destroy the Roman Catholic Church by the spirit of His mouth and by the brightness of His coming.
Richard Dawkins just writes books. He doesn't threaten people's lives. He simply presents an opposing point of view. He doesn't think a person is wholly stupid cause they hold a religious belief, its that he has problems with the fundamental claims of those religions. Some of which he rightfully finds insulting to his person and sense of morals. I'm paraphrasing Christopher Hitchens here but if the religious can play the 'offense card' all the time than the atheists should to.
fergal746 A synagogue is a local gathering of some Jews, not all. The congregation built by Jesus is an entire, universal People. It’s a difference of scale. IMHO the CC is beyond redemption, because *it lacks the will to make the changes that are needed* .
Peter was never “the Rock”. It was the knowledge of WHO CHRIST IS that is the rock and the chief cornerstone. It was the statement Peter made when Christ asked him Who He was. That statement was so important that Jesus was astounded. Peter had received that knowledge from the Father and from no one else. If Peter was supposed to be the Rock, Jesus would have told him so. Instead He said “upon THIS rock”. (The statement). He didn’t say “upon YOU, Peter”. Complete misinterpretation of scripture. In fact, 80% of the early church “fathers” agreed with me.
Here is another New Testament quote supporting slavery; " The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given" (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
ADDWARE88 That is not the biblical definition of the Church. When you read the Bible, the Church is defined as the congregation of God. In the OT, it is called "edah" in Hebrew, and "eklessia" in the NT. It is always understood to be a visible gathering of people who are led by leaders who are chosen by God. There is no such idea in the Bible as an "invisible church." That is an idea that the Protestant Rebels came up with to try to avoid the authority of the Apostles which exists in the Catholic Church.
You know these leaders chosen by God, are these the ones raping kids? Or are these the ones covering up for the ones raping kids? I'm just asking as I'd like to know who and why God is choosing these people.
Very weak debaters on both sides of this debate because neither side REALLY understands who Holy Mother Church is. They are both modernists who speak of things like "the people of God" as if we are, all, Catholic when that is just not the case. They, both, make the Papacy seem as though it is just the "CEO of the organization" when it is so much more to the world! How about you have the guts to get one of these losers to debate a 'Traditional Catholic' Priest or Layman who knows the Catholic Faith and who rejects modernism?? How about talking to some REAL Catholics who know the faith because neither of these two losers have a clue? "Those wretches tainted with the error of Indifferentism and Modernism hold that dogmatic truth is not absolute, but relative: that is, that it must adapt itself to the varying necessities of the times and the varying dispositions of souls, since it is not contained in an unchangeable revelation, but is, by its very nature, meant to accommodate itself to the life of man." - Pope Pius XI
You are nothing but a foul mouthed troll who knows zero about my beliefs. Your lack of knowledge about Catholicism because you, obviously, don't understand the simple fact of how Constantine converted from his pagan ways and never looked back to that evil, is laughable.
Constantine never converted from his pagan ways. He merely saw a brilliant political opportunity and took advantage of it. That's why there is so much pagan symbolism in the Catholic Church. Constantine just married the two and called it a "miracle"
There is no such thing as a holy mother church. just your pagan beliefs in Mary, mother of god, praying to statues, idol worship, repetitive prayer, blinded by pedophile priesthood
How can anyone both believe that they are the one true church of a perfect god, and simultaneously believe that this god would allow that church to become so corrupted that it could ever NEED redemption? If the one true church ever got so bad, that would cause "souls" who would otherwise be "saved" from receiving the guidance they need to do so. So anyone arguing that the church is not BEYOND redemption, while conceding that it needs redemption, is basically admitting that it is nothing more than a human institution, or that god is not the loving, caring being that they claim he is. The people arguing against this motion have no excuse for not either being atheists, or leaving their church.
The Roman catholic church is a false, pagan and apostate church... established by Satan and evil men to lead people to hell! The RCC has done the most evil things pretty much since it's conception and it never stopped being evil.... people open your eyes! Only Jesus saves! Acts 4:12
@@xuvial1391 Are you sure?Jesus is alive and is a God,so your statement is so funny.Jesus and his angels are everywhere whenever they want to 'cause to God time and space are nothing,'cause he created everything .Jesus walked as human on this earth and he is comming back again.Don't you think If you can't see Jesus and angels but you can judge,that's because your little brain cells can't understand the laws of God allmighty who is alive.Don't you think when you see videos of universe that nothing is impossible to God.There are so many laws in universe which your brain can't understand so as that,that God created your little brain in such way so that you cannot see in this life other dimensions of beings and worlds.You will kneel before Jesus at the time of your death hour,when your soul starts to tremble and your body be week,when you start yelling Jesus help me...just remember that....just in case you can't make to heaven....
@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 the Roman catholic church is a false pagan and heretic church...that leads people to hell! Satan has to raise up a counterfeit against God's True church... sadly the people are too blinded by the lies and idolatry of this church so they don't seek God and His Truth!
The United Nation is a mere organization but a Church like the Catholic Church is not. It's has its spirituality that's why it will never cease to exist..
Even if Pope Francis wanted to ordain women priestesses he could not. The Church has spoken and the matter is closed. The assertion that women have no say in the Church is false. At every level within the Church with the sole exception of priesthood, women within the Catholic Church are making important and notable impact on the Church. Women hold positions as Catechists, teachers, School principals, College professors, Chancellors, Business managers, Canon lawyers, Chief Financial Officers and many other important jobs. To say they have no say in the Church is just plain false. Women are indispensable in their roles within the Church. If you think women do not make important decisions with the Catholic Church I ask that you look at the decision of Mother Mary to bear the Christ Child as proof otherwise.
"He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." -Mark 7:6-9 The Catholic religion is composed of traditions which are NOT based upon the Word of God. Matthew 23:9 warns us not to reverence any man as "Father." Yet, this is exactly what the Catholic religion practices. 1st Timothy 4:1-3 warns us about the Catholic religion... "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." -1st Timothy 4:1-3
I'm bisexual and I'm offended that the Church thinks that I'm in a state of sin. I'm offended that the Church ever presented an awful idea like Limbo as fact. I'm offended that the Church still teaches that hell is real, an obviously made up fantasy where God sends people to suffer for things that he already planed for the 'sinners' to do. Nice logic eh? And don't give me the free will argument your God knows how stuff will play out.
There's no such thing as "bisexual". If you do men, you're gay. Sleeping with a woman every once in awhile won't take away from what you're doing with the men. Live up to it and own it. Stop trying to water it down with words like "bisexual".
I beg to differ, The Roman Catholic Church has all the necessary requirements for to enter the Kingdom of God, Jesus said to Saint Peter before his ascension into heaven. "Thou are Peter and upon this rock I will give to you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose sins you do retain are retained" and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it'
here's the rest of that chapter , note who Peter is called .... 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
You are a stone [petros] and on a rock [petra] I will build my church. Big difference. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication - Rev 17 Catholics do not believe in following scripture. 1.David and Moses did not believe the Queen of Heaven Ishtar whom you call Mary intervened on their behalf. 2. David and Moses believed in Passover not pagan assyrian feast of Ishtar[Easter] 3. David and Moses did not worship a pagan god papal king = Pope. i.e see Egypt, Persian all pagan all god kings. 4. David and Moses did not make and bow to graven images.i.e have you heard about the golden calf debacle in exodus. or idolatry in Jeremiah, Kings, Ezekiel. 5.David and Moses did not believe in an afterlife or pagan immortal soul. 6. David and Moses did not make pagan sacrifices every week to the Egyptian Sun trinity Isis Horus Seth and call a piece of flour god. 7. David and Moses did not believe in sorcery, bleeding and crying statues, magic water and wine and trinkets.
owen O'Neill If Peter the pope and his so called successors were the head of the church and infallable why did Paul and Peter argue as equals and Paul condemn Peter as he was clearly in the wrong. Acts - following day he arrived in Caesarea, where Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends.25 Peter was about to enter, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet to worship him. 26 But Peter helped him up. “Stand up,” he said, *“I am only a man myself.”* Have you guys shown the popes and priests this. hahahah lol oh you can't cause you burned all the bibles right
Pope cannot save anyone! God can save every single person who truly wants to be saved!!! this is a challenge by the way: pray to pope- nothing will happen!!! Pray to God, your Creator, and watch and marvel ...
@Beata Haber....you sound as fanatical as the Catholics.....how about NO god, no religion and we all start living in the 21st century instead of the middle ages and believing in magical people in the sky. Science and the natural universe are much more wondrous and beautiful than any "contrived" myths.
How's the 21st century Materialism working out for you so far? Wht part do you like best? The slaughter of 1,000,000 unborn children per year in the US? The sale of their body parts? The rationalization of euthanasia? And how long do you suppose it will be before euthanasia will be imposed on the basis of some government bureau? How about same sex marriage, the false equivalence made between sodomy and the life-giving union of one man and one woman one time? Is that progress? How about the false moral equivalence between all religions, so that evangelical atheists can use the abomination of the 9/11 attacks to go after Christians? The rational Western mindset is properly speaking a product of the Church, not a rival. Just as there is a need for rationality in human life, there is a need for faith, else the struggle for the moral compass inevitably point to a downward course. IHS!
Matthew: It is important not to conflate the sins of the branches with the righteousness of the vine. The protestant revolt began 499 years ago precisely because this mistake was made. That is the entire point of my original statement on my thread: The teachings of the Church are true even though the behavior of Churchmen may be false. If we view our lives as a kind of spiritual warfare, in which our enemies are not flesh and blood (Eph. 6:12), it comes as no surprise that our enemy would seek to infiltrate the citadel of Our Lord's Church and subvert those within. It is no time to give up the citadel but to persist in waging war through prayer and penance. You have serious misconceptions concerning the Church. I pray that you take the time and interest to learn more so that we can reasonably discuss the issues that actually separate us, rather than the ridiculous calumnies of Alexander Hislop and his ilk. God bless. IHS!
I love the Catholic Church too. How could I not, when I know it to be the Mystical Bride of Christ and the Mystical Body of Christ? But I don't have much respect for the present pope or most modern bishops. The way they cover up for pedophiles sickens me. I have decided not to put any money in the collection basket until Pope Francis dies or resigns.
Here are some facts: "The History of Romanism" by John Dowling. How about "Foxe's Book of Martyrs". Or maybe "Rome and Civil Liberty" by J.A. Wylie. To top it off, your global Antichrist cult is described to perfection and in living color in Revelation chapter 17 and 18. It's undeniable!
1. For those against the Catholic Church for the fact that the Catholic Church only have men in its hierarchy, so did Jesus Christ, remember, there were no Women among His 12 Apostles. The church then is the Church now. Amen 2nd Point, The Church itself Jesus Christ gave its care to the 12 Apostles who then gave it to their successors to this very day in the Catholic Church. Every institution has its problems did not an Apostle by the name of Judas Betray him? YES! Those in the Church are sinners and only God can save us and he will,for He gave a promise that the gates of hell will not prevail over it.
YES, the Catholic Church is full of sinners, but yet it is still the Church founded on Rock. There has been fault in the Church, beginning with Judas, I am sure you will agree to this. There is only one Lord, and it is not YOU. LOL I'm sure you have heard Jesus Christ say: "LET HIM WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE"
Martin Sandoval I am not God and I would take it as an insult to be called God. I have no desire to establish a divine dictatorship with hellfire as a capricious punishment for crimes that are not even crimes. Founded on Rock? More like, founded on self contradictory, inaccurate and immoral texts. Yes, hundreds of mythologies got it wrong about the divine before, how convenient that you were raised just in THE community that really gets who God is and what he wants from all of us. Go ahead, tell us how to live, after all, it is you amongst all peoples to whom the almighty has revealed his will. Somehow, your "Church founded on Rock" failed to enlighten its very preachers, who ended up forming the most disgusting gang of coward violence and depravity.
L, what are "crimes that are not crimes", you are not making any sense. Crime is a crime is a crime, where I come from. you must be a dictator. lol to remove a crime from being a crime. L, Re: founded on Rock, Hmmm what church comes into your mind, when they say founded on Rock??? L, you stated:" "Church founded on Rock" failed"... L, you may not know it, but you just called Jesus Christ a liar, for you say the Church founded on rock failed. when Jesus Christ said in Matthew 16:18 below: Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. L, You are casting stone at the Church founded on Rock, and yet you too are a sinner, at least the Jews had the knowledge not to stone Mary Magdalen, because they too were sinners. Good Bye L. God Bless
Martin Sandoval Jesus Christ was probably not liar in the sense that he may have believed the bullshit that he was preaching. But believing something does not make it true. A deluded scaremongering cult leader he was. It is all in the Bible, check it out. Eating meat on a certain day, having sex in a certain position or with a certain person, or wearing certain clothes... Or even thinking about these things, those are terrible crimes that deserve NEVER ENDING punishment in the eyes of the God of the Bible. And of course, not loving the great Lord and leader, in EVERY totalitarian dictatorship, is the greatest of crimes. These "crimes" are not real crimes. These are stupid rules designed to scare people into sheepish compliance. I am not a sinner because I am not a slave. I do not recognize the moral authority of those that think they have God on their side and claim to know his mind. There is enough of this around the world causing unspeakable pain already, and motivating real crime. Again I question - founded on Rock? More like, founded on self contradictory, inaccurate and immoral texts.
I do not subscribe to ANY religion, since Lucifer is the father of all religions. I am just a follower of Jesus Christ and I do His will, just like the apostles of old did. Peace
That is just your opinion. If God is misguiding me then that is fine by me. I rather listen to Him than people anytime. There is never a boring moment in my life, I enjoy the company of God 24/7. Peace
Great Ben agree. Lucifer is truly the author of confusion and religion is confusion. True follower of Jesus Christ have the Kingdom of God within them. We move as the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ leads us. Shalom Shalom.
***** Hi Joel: Thank you for your interest. Here are some initial answers to the issues you've raised. I hope that this will be the start of a reasonable discussion... 1) Transubstantiation -- The dogma of Transubstantiation is exegeted from the following passages: Mat. 26:26-28; Mar. 14:22-24; Luk. 22:19-20; 1Cor. 11:24-29 and John 6:47-58. Protestants, for all of their self-proclaimed love of scripture, seem to ignore or doubt the truth of the above verses, especially John 6:51 and 1 Cor. 11:29. Yours is a buffet-style faith. 2) Papal Infallibility -- This dogma is poorly understood even by Catholics. But enemies of Christ's Church often use it as an weapon of attack. The pope is infallible *_only_* when he speaks _ex cathedra_ on a matter of faith or morals, making it clear that he is speaking in such a manner and that he intends to bind all Christians to his teaching. He is specifically not permitted to invent any doctrine that is not scriptural or handed down through Apostolic succession. The scriptural basis of this dogma is based upon Mat. 16:18, Luk. 22:31-32 and Jhn. 21:15-17. Additionally, various patristic sources support the dogma. 3) Rosary -- The rosary is a meditation on scriptural passages as well as traditions in the Christian faith. The matter of the rosary is a crucifix, a short string of five beads leading to a circle of 54 beads. The beads in the circle are divide into five decades with a bead separating the decades The form of the rosary is a prayer on each of the beads as follows: The Sign of the Cross -- (Mat. 28:19) a doxology to the Holy Trinity made on the Crucifix The Apostles' Creed -- a summary of Christian belief, also made on the Crucifix The Lord's Prayer -- (Mat. 6:9-13) made on the first of the five beads The Holy Mary -- (Luk. 1:28, 42) made on the next three of the five beds The Glory Be -- another doxology to the Holy Trinity made on the fifth of the five beads Each decade is prayed beginning with the Lord's Prayer, followed by ten Hail Marys and ended by the Glory Be. Each decade is a subject of meditation according to the chaplet that the Christian wishes to focus. These are as follows: *The Joyful Mysteries* The Annunciation -- Luk. 1:26-38 The Visitation -- Luk. 1:39-56 The Nativity -- Luk. 2:1-20 The Presentation in the Temple -- Luk. 2:20-35 The Finding in the Temple -- Luk. 2:42-51 *The Sorrowful Mysteries* The Agony in the Garden -- Mat. 26:36-46; Mar. 14:32-42; Luk. 22:39-46 The Scourging at the Pillar -- Mat. 27:26; Mar. 15:15; Joh. 19:1 The Crowning with Thorns -- Mat. 27:29; Mar. 15:17; Joh. 19:2-5 The Carrying of the Cross -- Mat. 27:31-32; 15:19-20; Luk. 23:26-32; Jhn. 19:16-17 The Crucifixion -- Mat. 27:35-50; Mar. 15:23-37; Luk. 33-46; Jhn. 19:18-30 *The Glorious Mysteries* The Resurrection -- Mat. 28:1-9; Mar. 16:1-14; Luk. 24:1-32; Jhn. 20:11-16 The Ascension -- Mar. 16:19; Luk. 24:51; Acts 1:9 The Descent of the Holy Spirit -- Acts 2:1-4 The Assumption of Our Lady -- A tradition held both by the Latin and Greek Churches The Crowning of Our Lady -- exegeted from 2 Ch. 15:16, in which the Jewish practice of naming the mother of the king as queen is shown. Thus as Our Lord is King of Kings as it is written in Apo. 19:16 (despite the title being blasphemously usurped by Artaxerxes (Ezr. 7:12) and Nebuchadnezzar (Ezr. 26:7)), so is Our Lady Queen of Heaven (despite the title being blasphemously usurped by the demonic entity Ishtar (Jer. 7:18)
Hi Matthew: I am disappointed that you pretend to give glory to God while resorting to such foul language. No one benefits from such language but the Enemy of all. IHS!
***** Hi Joel: You indeed requested VERBATIM justification of various Christian beliefs from scripture and I have failed, in your opinion, because I used very clear exegesis from select passages.If this is the standard you set and demand of me. I think in all fairness you should be able to meet the same standard, yes? So may I ask, where in the Bible is there VERBATIM mention of the Trinity? _Sola scriptura_? The Catholic Christian Church as antichrist? Remember:, *_VERBATIM_*. Otherwise you are in danger of condemning yourself by the standards set for me. Good luck. :) IHS!
***** Is _this_ your VERBATIM response to the questions I posed? I would call this a major fail on your part. You cannot meet the standards you set for me. You say the discussion is over. In fact you never had any intention of discussing anything, did you. You were looking for an opportunity to spout bile rather than critically discuss your position versus the Christian position, which was given to you with Biblical citations. But when confronted with a reasonable challenge, you retreat. Is this how you give glory to God? Shame on you. You are in my prayers. IHS!
If you believe in Gods Word how can you believe in the Catholic Church, the two are very opposed to each other. God gives everyone a choice use it wisely. Rev 18 this is the warning God as given to the Roman Catholic Church --- 4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:"Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes. 6 Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup. 7 Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts,'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.' 8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.
nobody is beyond redemption.I was however very disappointed in the popes recent comments regarding homosexuality........ who am I to judge he quipped. One could expect nothing less from an apostate. if he was a Christian he would have mentioned what is said about homosexuality in the Bible and not make such an unbelievable comment. Could he not have given a sermon on the meaning of repentance ?????? coward, knowing that his priesthood is full of abominations.
He [the Pope] cannot possibly do the things you suggest because his very position is a denial of what the Word of God says. Even if he knows what the Bible says, as Pope he cannot teach it except in a twisted and perverted manner.
Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid. - Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8
The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and the Mystical Bride of Christ. To reject the Catholic Church is to reject Christ Himself. This is why outside the Church there is no salvation.
Seriously, this "priest", living in unrepentant sexual sin, is going to talk about being able to be self-critical? Objective disorder? This is why Roman Catholics aren't saved, they don't understand their sin, and so can't understand their need for a savior. This isn't loving God, but trying to play lawyer with Him, to escape judgement... Pray for Roman Catholics.
“There is but ONE CHURCH in which men find salvation, just as outside the ark of Noah it was not possible for anyone to be saved.” ~ St. Thomas Aquinas OP "Outside the Catholic Church there IS NO SALVATION" is what this quote means
Did that guy really say that being gay is like being left-handed and that it is not a defect? This guy is a priest in the Catholic Church and he’s claiming that being gay is like being left-handed wow!
God's Word is what a Christian should live by. That Priest who is gay does not agree with his church teachings, and reason. God's Word had know place in the debate. Read what God's says about relationships. Genesis 2:18-25. Leviticus 18:22. 20:13. Romans 1:24-27. Note vs 32. People this is God's Word saying this. So that priest is not a man of God. And as I said no one in that video mentioned God's Word. Read Luke 4:3-4. 2sd Timothy 3:16-17. Not one of those on that panel mentioned God's Word. People read God's Word for your answers.
Oh how sad. As a practicing Catholic, these heresies are so dad. Abuse scandal is OVER. Bad, yes. Over? never. Just read the Catechism. Go to confession if you are in grave matter. No abortion. No homosexual marriage. No contraception. Give to the poor. Love your neighbor. Women are involved way more than you think they are. Jesus picked 12 men apostles. Did I say keep the sanctity of human life?
the problems with Catholic things opposite to the Bible example worshiping of idol's gay is not allowed allowed in the Bible but they accept that they worship on Sunday instead of Saturday so this church is against the Bible don't you see!!!!!
I respect your honesty. Most people try to justify it with things like "slavery isn't an absolute evil" (Try telling that to slaves...) or "It made sense at the time" (So at some point in history your God, the all knowing, all compassionate being, decided that slavery was acceptable not only to allow but to sanctify?). You see theists this is why I have a hard time taking you seriously. It makes people defend things like slavery.... That's where this so called "angry atheism" comes from.
Catholics all over the globe need to read the bible diligently. They need tohave their eyes open to see clearly what God want for us his creation. The world is chaotic because we let the enemy take the lead instead of the Lord.
BETWEEN 1962 AND 1965. A GENERAL ECUMENICAL COUNCIL TOKE PLACE DURING THE COUNCIL.WAS HELD IN ROME. A DOCUMENT CALLED "ON DIVINE REVELATION"CAME FROM THAT COUNCIL. ROMAN CATHOLICS STUDY THIS DOCUMENT. I RECOMMEND THAT YOU READ IT. EVERY MEMBER OF THE HUMAN RACE SHOULD READ THE WORD OF GOD DAILY.
The Roman Catholic Church rose out of the Holy Roman Empire a Political and Religious Entity. It continued much of the Pagan customs like Idolworship, and the Pope was given Titles Like "Vicar of Christ" and "Holy Father" a title for God in the Bible. Furthermore the Pope / Priest claimed to have the Authority to forgive Sins. This is a Power that the Bible claims is only Gods'. Anybody who knows History knows the RCC has behaved like a murderous Political Power, rather than Gods Church.
amen amen brother you said it right, this institution is one big man made religious system of LIES , AND NOT THE CHURCH JESUS STARTED UPON THE ONE AND ONLY ROCK HIMSELF. BE BLESSED IN LOVING SPIRIT THESE SOULS NEED THE GOSPEL NOT A DEBATE
Some comments: 1. This debate presupposes certain contingent and doubtful propositions as certain criteria of judgment. More on which below. 2. Vatican II is neither the "bedrock" of the Church nor has it been "dead" for a long time. It produced one batch of documents among many and is measured by the canon of tradition and for Catholics infallible Scripture. John XXIII and Paul VI both stated that it would not be concerned with defining concepts. But: many priests make the mistake of treating it as a new, self sufficient constitution, which is simply impossible. No, not dead by a long stretch. 3. Paul Sullins has shown that 80% of the sexual abuse cases were on boys and that the correlation between frequency of abuse and percentage of the clergy that was homo-exu-l is .98 - astonishly high, well high enough to justify claiming causation. So, the problem seems mainly to do with giving some hom-sexu-ls (not a majority by any stretch) positions of authority and access to children. Sorry for how that sounds, but it is based on careful research. 4. The Amazon Synod has discussed dropping celibacy for at least some (new) priests, women's ordination, and even learning from paganism. 5. One fellow asked, Why did this (sexual abuse crisis) happen? A. The hom-sex-al clergy who were not abusing minors could 'sympathize' with with those who were and refrained from taking decisive action. B. William Colson and Carl Rogers helped introduce the 'sexual revolution' (the emancipation of predatory lust) into the Church and C. There was an active effort on the part of the enemies of the Church to infiltrate the seminaries and corrupt the clergy. See the work of George Dillon, Bella Dodd, Taylor Marshall, and Humanum Genus by Leo XIII. I could go on and on. In sum, this was a pseudo-debate by generally uninformed progressives on whether the Church can cease being what it is: the infallible and indefectible presence on Earth of the Mystical Body of Christ.
For all these posters who post really negative comments about the Catholic Church...you know nothing about it.. the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ the Son of God...whether you agree that or not...makes no difference to me..that is my church...and I'm staying in it. If I am wrong then God will judge me..NOT YOU. And if you're all wrong God will judge you..not me.
Who cares what this dribble secularists say.. Salvation is not about human rights - it's about the spiritual life and truth. The Church is a supernatural organisation pointing people to God, if it wasn't, it wouldn't have survived these past two thousand years.
if you're not catholics, you don't have the right to put something you don't understand on trial. this is pure non sense from ignorant people who don't know what the church is. The church is founded by Jesus and it will last beyond all of you all here in this debate which is the end of time.
I'm a Roman Catholic, no ındıvidual is perfect , no peace makers are holy or perfect, any leaders of any kınds of religions christians or non-christians no one ıs perfect, for there is only the HEAVENLY FATHER WHO İS KİND AND PERFECT, nobody is rightheous except God, even the 12 apostles of our Lord and Savıor are not perfect, ıncluding the popes, cardinals, the priest, the deacons, lay people and me and you are not perfect, BUT if we repent ask forgiveness we will be forgiven .
Even with the governmental aspect I still oppose Christianity. It is way too obsessed with chastity when sexuality is perfectly natural and healthy. Hell is in of itself an immoral concept when you consider the powers of a theist God, especially the idea of predestination. Women were still pretty powerless among the early Christians although they did to some degree treat their women better than others. And slavery, something I consider to be an absolute evil, is fully sanctioned in the bible.
I think it’s pretty clear that the Catholic Church needs new leader ship. Truly holy people that care about the faith and the 1.2 billion people that make up the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the faith and the people it is not the priests and bishops Cardinals and pope they are administrators of the faith. They need to be swapped out.
Rather amateurish compared to the standard Intelligence^2 events, I think it would be much better if it followed the structure of the other events, but I still enjoyed it. Also, it seems rather insulting to take someone's question, completely ignore it, and then immediately go to someone's much more controversial question without a single word. Even going back to it later, it seemed rather boorish.
Ok so the quote was a little wrong, big deal. It's still condescending to gays like myself. I refuse to believe that any 'compassionate' being would have been so hateful to 1/10 or 1/2 (women) of his creations.
The Catholic Church the people of God? That is not what revelations chapters 13 and 17 says. It is described as Babylon and a prostitute in details. This because e it left the truth of the Gospel purity and added traditional beliefs mixed with paganism and the adoration of Mary and dead saints as intercessors between mankind and God. Idolatry is the works of every day among Catholics. The church created its own message and Gospel which are not what the apostles preached after Jesus ascension to heaven.
As someone who is a Sephardi Jew I will never forgive the catholic church it willl take 300 years before I reconsider. I might be an atheist I would like to see the church to have an interfaith council.
You are a Christ-killer accursed with the Blood Guilt of Deicide. See www.vaticancatholic.com for there is absolutely No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church. Jews are a sect which arose in opposition to God Lord Jesus Christ and crucified Him. It is a breakoff movement- they left the Church. Palestine belongs to the Catholic Church by Divine Law. God Lord Jesus Christ and Christianity will never forgive Christ-killers but will damn them unless them convert.
Wait a minute....so YOU, some random pice of shit is the one who will forgive the catholic church? Hahaha catholics have nothing to be forgiven for while you have PLENTY. Dipshit
The truth only hurts the guilty. The Jew Nathan M. Pollock, an old man who worked as a translator of scientific texts and proofreader in a publishing firm, spent his recreational time in historic research. What he found was interesting. He made huge elaborate plans to celebrate the 1000th anniversary of the Jewish-Khazar alliance, and they were summarily rejected by the Zionist Regime [Israeli government] occupying Palestine. He had devoted 40 years trying to prove that six out of 10 Israelis and nine out of 10 Jews in the Western Hemisphere are not real "Jews" [he means Semites], but descendants of the Tartar-Mongol race (nomad tribes) and Khazars that were converted to Judaism en masse in 966 A.D. through the royal Edict of King Bulan III of Khazaria, when he enforced Judaism as the only legal "religion" of his nation. For in 965 the Khazars had suffered their first defeat in 500 years. Prince Sviatoslav of kiev defeated them. And since Bullan III's troops and mercenaries were said to be Christians, while his nomads were pagan worshipers, he concluded that this was the reason for his defeat. So in the year 965 the king and his nobles embraced Judaism. In 966 he imposed it on the whole kingdom going so far as to force them to learn Hebrew prayers and undergo Judaism rituals, and forced them to recognize Jewish rabbis as their spiritual leaders on pain of death. Hebrew speaking Khazar raiders forcibly abducted women, forcibly married them in full fledged Jewish ceremonies, and killed the men folk. The Khazar kingdom covered part of what is today Russia and Asia. The flourishing Jewish-Khazar kingdom was destroyed in 1230 by the Mongol invasion of Ban Khan. Following the Mongol invasion and conquest, surviving members of the Jewish-Khazar tribes trekked west and settled in Poland, Hungary, Bohemia, Austria, Romania, and the Ukraine. So the majority of the Jewish people don't even carry Semitic blood; they are not Semites. The Arabs are Semites and so are the Palestinians (since these are known to be descended from Shem, hence Semites). Since the Jewish people are today the leading persecutors of the Arabs in the Middle East, that would make the (Zionist) Jews the biggest anti-Semites in the world. (this is from news article"The Jews That Aren't" by Leo human: Coplay News Service San Diego Union - 28.8.1966)
Darth Vader there is NO presence!! Why do you want to put His body in your mouth and why do you want Him to sacrifice again and again! Didn’t He suffer enough for you?? He wants you to just remember and be grateful!!
@@buddyslade5933 John 6:6 Jesus tells to eat His Body and Drink His Blood. If you go to the Greek, He uses the word to Naw or Chew on. If it is symbolic He wouldn't have used this strong of language. Secondly, if Jesus fulfills the things in the Old Testament then He fulfills the Passover meal. He is the High Priest who offers Himself up as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. In the Passover, the sacrifice wasn't done there, the family who presented the lamb had to eat it. The passover is fulfilled by the Eucharist. Its not a re-sacrifice, it's a re-presentation(presenting it again) of the Sacrifice of Christ where we remember His sacrifice by doing what He told us to do. One other thing: the Early Church believed in the true presence. A disciple of St. John the Apostle believed it to be so. Can the Church be in error that quickly? Or was it 1500 years later that people got it wrong? Question for you: where in the Bible does remembrance = symbolic?
Why make the beginning so stupid loud? Actually the whole thing is way too loud and I'm hearing it though phone speakers. And he's using so many more word than need be.
The church is a museum of sinners not a museum of SAINTS. We are sinners GOD forgives but we are judgemental as human being. Christ did not condmned or judge the world...
Slavery is indeed in the new testament ; " Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them" (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT). Sexuality is also discouraged in the bible, yet slavery is permitted?
There were plenty of slave risings in the ancient world which always resulted mass deaths and worse conditions for slaves. So you're idea is that the early church ought have encouraged the rebellion of slaves? Duh. Sexuality is always encouraged within marriage. How else can we get children?
"There's no such thing as a Catholic who isn't a 'cafeteria Catholic'"! Well isn't that quite the admission, and true of ALL Christians! Why doesn't that TELL them all something? There are no cafeteria physicists, or cafeteria biologists, perhaps when something is actually TRUE, you don't get to pick and choose what to accept if you are honest.
if children were told they would burn in hell and get no presents again they would be santa believing all there lives. wouldnt even have to give em presents every year and they would accept it am i right or what ? i am
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This man is living proof that we are now living in the great apostasy.
Which man?
The only thing that could even remotely redeem the Catholic church would be for it to excommunicate every single one of the priests who have abused children. They must be removed from the church and handed over to the authorities to face justice. Anything less is a cowardly response.
Didn't make it past the farts and drums at the beginning. Awful.
Anthony Delamont this is gold my friend. hahaha
It is not the Church that requires Redemption. It is the sinners within the Church that require Redemption.
I suspect that you illustrate, though perhaps unintentionally, the intractable nature of the problem. The debate is not whether the church can qualify for divine absolution according to its own theology, but whether the all-too-terrestrial institution of the catholic church can redeem itself in the eyes of those who accord it no sanctity, authority, or special license; the problem is that the church seems to think that it is only answerable to its own god, rather than to the people of the world who have taken note of its criminal activities, and who do not subscribe to its theological narrative. In short the question is not "Can god be persuaded to forgive these people?" but "Can these people do what is needed to make NON-CATHOLICS forgive them?"
Put bluntly: Redemption in the eyes of men is ultimately of no worth. N-o-n-e. It is not a popularity contest. It is a rejection of sin through Our Lord's perfect atonement for sin, no matter how glamorous, fashionable or *_obligatory_* sin is made out to be. Redemption is a matter between each human being and their Creator.
Verumnondominatus I see no reason think that any such creator exists, or that "sin" would be a meaningful concept even if it did. When one person hurts another, it is to the specific victim that reparations must be made, not to any hypothetical god that may be watching. If you insist on defining redemption as an atonement to a god for a sin, then you are clearly not talking about the same subject as the participants in this debate, and may well be talking about something that doesn't exist anyway. Can you demonstrate that a "creator" exists in the first place, and that sin is an applicable term? This would seem to be an imperative step if we are to discuss the matter further.
To a believer, secular law is only as valid as is its consistency with Divine Law. From the fall of the Roman Empire up until the French Revolution, Western secular law largely agreed with Divine Law. The formerly close relationship between the two systems of law lingers to this day, although with ever decreasing congruence. The nut of Divine Law is love of God and love of neighbor and justice is due to each. In the case of human injury through crime, reparations are to be made for crimes committed, abetted or willfully ignored by those committing, abetting or willfully ignoring the crimes. This has been done, or if not done to completion, then let it be so done.
Redemption is not reparation. Redemption indeed is not justice. It is mercy. And as it is a Christian concept of long standing, I do insist on using the term in this context, not in the context of this debate. You may see now that is the entire point of my original posting.
I hope this helps.
IHS!
Verumnondominatus I appreciate your clarification of context, but the rest of what you have written is not particularly helpful, because you still haven't demonstrated that there is any such thing as "Divine Law". I feel that this needs to be sorted out before there is any point in further discussion. Can you demonstrate that there is a god and that this god has a law to impose?
How about prosecution and imprinsonment for the pedephiles, first and foremost obviously the most practical and necessary step that needs to be taken.
If you're going to church this weekend, don't forget to bring your money!
It's ok if don't give any money to the church. The Catholic church will minister to you free of material charge. The Protestant churches require you to pay a tithe thas in fact was abolished in the new covenant.
@@mariasoniamoreno3433 How much do Indulgences cost these days?
@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 I recommend you learn a little about the things you talk about BEFORE you write against them.
Am I wrong to believe you only know what protestants repeat "As soon as a coin in the coffer rings / the soul from purgatory springs."? But did you take a minute to learn what the meant?
On the other hand, is paying tithe a requirement for you?
@@mariasoniamoreno3433I suggest you learn a little more about the fraud of Indulgences perpetrated by the church, particularly before and fueling the Reformation; further, committed by this institution to this day. It's small wonder how the catholic church has declined in power from its monopoly the past 5 centuries.
What protestants repeat sounds every bit as unjustified and evidentially untrue as what catholics, muslims, hindus and jews repeat. These mental prisons are in the same faith based boat; It's called faith because it's not knowledge.
@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 The power of the Catholic Church is not in the number of believers or the material wealth it possesses, but in having been founded by Jesus Christ himself and being safeguarded by his word: the gates of hell will not triumph over Jesus' Church.
I believe in science. In fact, I'm a science teacher. However, there are things we don't know and choose to accept unproven explanations by faith. Did the universe spring from a single particle?
Here something I found with just one simple Google search: role of the Catholic church in modern science.
This is the first item it returned:
"Historically, the Catholic Church has often been a patron of sciences. It has been prolific in the foundation and funding of schools, universities and hospitals, and many clergy have been active in the sciences. ... Catholic scientists, both religious and lay, have led scientific discovery in many fields."
Jesus is our Redeemer we have hope and faith in Him. let the people make their speculation as they like.
Western civilization is beyond redemption. Let if fall and let it fall fast.
More correctly, let Roman Catholic civilization fall. You paint with a brush too broad.
How can you demand perfection from a church populated by sinners?
How can you reject the words of our Lord when he says the gates of hell shall not prevail against it? That he will be with us always? He will not leave us orphans? The Catholic Church has faltered but has never crashed. Why? Because of the Holy Spirit.
He sent the "Comforter" for a reason. To fill the apostles with the Holy Spirit to spread His teachings and sacrifice. They baptized people and filled them with the Spirit and with heavenly grace. How dare anyone doubt the magnitude and power of the Holy Spirit through claims of "apostasy." Truly those who claim apostasy are the ones practicing the loss of the fullness of truth. The Holy Spirit is mightier than any sin, thus the truth lives on through the Bride of Christ, the Catholic Church.
childish assumptions from a child masquerading as an adult. the religious again.
This is quite a topic...
But time will sweep memories away.
If the Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ then who can be against her? The fact that this Church has been here for two thousand years is a true miracle in itself...
Judge a church by what it does in private, not so much what it does in public, and if there is a problem at the bottom, chances are it's because there's a problem at the top. A tree is known by it's fruits, so examine it's fruits. The problem is that people choose churches based on what they themselves believe, so the church continues to be segregated by denomination by what they hold to be "different" from one another, but Paul was more about keeping the Church undivided by focusing on all that we have in COMMON that leads others to Christ.
There were more worst times than today in the 2000 years history of the Catholic Church and still the Catholic Church survived and flourished. Jesus Christ himself said "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". Peter is the first pope in the Roman Catholic Church. Pope Francis is very humble and has drawn many many people to the Catholic Church and will continue to do so.
+Terraconensis Protestantism you speak of.
+Nasrani MinAlGharb I'm talking about the Bible.
Terraconensis Oh you mean the bible that the Holy Roman Catholic Church gave to the world?
Nasrani MinAlGharb You mean after torturing, stealing from and killing the bible believers then changing scripture to their liking?
Terraconensis ...oh, by the way, which scripture did they change?
My question would be this
Q. Why do we actually need a system like Roman Catholicism ~ since there are lots of people who are not Catholics & would never dream of embracing such a system
Amazing to watch human beings decry the Catholic Church while standing in
Christendom.
Catholic church is synonomous with civilization.
I suggest further study.
And synonomous with evil throughout its bloody history.
And you ignorantly and foolishly equate the Catholic Church with Christianity. To call Catholicism "Christianity" is to blaspheme the name of Jesus Christ. The whole world does it, and the whole world is condemned in doing so, as are you. In fact, the Roman Catholic Church is the Synagogue of Satan. And very soon, the world will witness Jesus Christ himself destroy the Roman Catholic Church by the spirit of His mouth and by the brightness of His coming.
Richard Dawkins just writes books. He doesn't threaten people's lives. He simply presents an opposing point of view. He doesn't think a person is wholly stupid cause they hold a religious belief, its that he has problems with the fundamental claims of those religions. Some of which he rightfully finds insulting to his person and sense of morals. I'm paraphrasing Christopher Hitchens here but if the religious can play the 'offense card' all the time than the atheists should to.
How does the Church keep in touch with the views of the people? Answer: The Pope has appointed a committee of 8 cardinals. Job done. Bloody hilarious.
The world conference of bishops is another.
Still hilarious?
"This is Peter the rock on which I build my church"
Why was it a church and not a synagogue ?
fergal746 A synagogue is a local gathering of some Jews, not all. The congregation built by Jesus is an entire, universal People. It’s a difference of scale.
IMHO the CC is beyond redemption, because *it lacks the will to make the changes that are needed* .
Peter was never “the Rock”. It was the knowledge of WHO CHRIST IS that is the rock and the chief cornerstone. It was the statement Peter made when Christ asked him Who He was. That statement was so important that Jesus was astounded. Peter had received that knowledge from the Father and from no one else.
If Peter was supposed to be the Rock, Jesus would have told him so. Instead He said “upon THIS rock”. (The statement). He didn’t say “upon YOU, Peter”. Complete misinterpretation of scripture. In fact, 80% of the early church “fathers” agreed with me.
Here is another New Testament quote supporting slavery; "
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given" (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
A debate is when you have 2 opposing sides. This is no debate.
Nonsense. Dr. Ronan McCrea argued strongly for the notion that the Church is not worthy of redemption. Didn't you watch the debate?
So Jesus lied and the gates of hell are going to prevail against His Bride, the Church?
Sorry..............................wrong!!!!!
+Edward Hara
The Catholic Church is NOT the Church of Christ......It is within......Dawn
Christ guide us
ADDWARE88 That is not the biblical definition of the Church. When you read the Bible, the Church is defined as the congregation of God. In the OT, it is called "edah" in Hebrew, and "eklessia" in the NT. It is always understood to be a visible gathering of people who are led by leaders who are chosen by God. There is no such idea in the Bible as an "invisible church." That is an idea that the Protestant Rebels came up with to try to avoid the authority of the Apostles which exists in the Catholic Church.
yes I died for it....I know the Church.....Christ guide you 2002
You know these leaders chosen by God, are these the ones raping kids? Or are these the ones covering up for the ones raping kids? I'm just asking as I'd like to know who and why God is choosing these people.
Catholic Religion = Islamic Religion
Very weak debaters on both sides of this debate because neither side REALLY understands who Holy Mother Church is. They are both modernists who speak of things like "the people of God" as if we are, all, Catholic when that is just not the case. They, both, make the Papacy seem as though it is just the "CEO of the organization" when it is so much more to the world!
How about you have the guts to get one of these losers to debate a 'Traditional Catholic' Priest or Layman who knows the Catholic Faith and who rejects modernism?? How about talking to some REAL Catholics who know the faith because neither of these two losers have a clue?
"Those wretches tainted with the error of Indifferentism and Modernism hold that dogmatic truth is not absolute, but relative: that is, that it must adapt itself to the varying necessities of the times and the varying dispositions of souls, since it is not contained in an unchangeable revelation, but is, by its very nature, meant to accommodate itself to the life of man." - Pope Pius XI
how bout ye stop believing man and start believing God u dumbed down brain washed sun worshipper
You are nothing but a foul mouthed troll who knows zero about my beliefs. Your lack of knowledge about Catholicism because you, obviously, don't understand the simple fact of how Constantine converted from his pagan ways and never looked back to that evil, is laughable.
+Judy Spady you are a fool for believing your religion over The Lord. I know ur religion more than u do. Constantine was a pagan
Constantine never converted from his pagan ways. He merely saw a brilliant political opportunity and took advantage of it. That's why there is so much pagan symbolism in the Catholic Church. Constantine just married the two and called it a "miracle"
There is no such thing as a holy mother church. just your pagan beliefs in Mary, mother of god, praying to statues, idol worship, repetitive prayer, blinded by pedophile priesthood
How can anyone both believe that they are the one true church of a perfect god, and simultaneously believe that this god would allow that church to become so corrupted that it could ever NEED redemption? If the one true church ever got so bad, that would cause "souls" who would otherwise be "saved" from receiving the guidance they need to do so. So anyone arguing that the church is not BEYOND redemption, while conceding that it needs redemption, is basically admitting that it is nothing more than a human institution, or that god is not the loving, caring being that they claim he is.
The people arguing against this motion have no excuse for not either being atheists, or leaving their church.
Satan must be sad when his church gets such bad press.
Jesus is in charge, or did all these intellectuals forget this one critical factor?
Well Jesus didn't show up to the debate, so it comes down to people.
The Roman catholic church is a false, pagan and apostate church... established by Satan and evil men to lead people to hell!
The RCC has done the most evil things pretty much since it's conception and it never stopped being evil.... people open your eyes!
Only Jesus saves!
Acts 4:12
@@xuvial1391 Are you sure?Jesus is alive and is a God,so your statement is so funny.Jesus and his angels are everywhere whenever they want to 'cause to God time and space are nothing,'cause he created everything .Jesus walked as human on this earth and he is comming back again.Don't you think If you can't see Jesus and angels but you can judge,that's because your little brain cells can't understand the laws of God allmighty who is alive.Don't you think when you see videos of universe that nothing is impossible to God.There are so many laws in universe which your brain can't understand so as that,that God created your little brain in such way so that you cannot see in this life other dimensions of beings and worlds.You will kneel before Jesus at the time of your death hour,when your soul starts to tremble and your body be week,when you start yelling Jesus help me...just remember that....just in case you can't make to heaven....
@@lydiapetra1211 If the Roman Catholic Church had never existed, then no Protestant Sects would have ever existed either.
@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 the Roman catholic church is a false pagan and heretic church...that leads people to hell!
Satan has to raise up a counterfeit against God's True church... sadly the people are too blinded by the lies and idolatry of this church so they don't seek God and His Truth!
very amusing at the beginning of the trial the verdict was already done!
The United Nation is a mere organization but a Church like the Catholic Church is not. It's has its spirituality that's why it will never cease to exist..
Unfortunately.
Even if Pope Francis wanted to ordain women priestesses he could not. The Church has spoken and the matter is closed. The assertion that women have no say in the Church is false. At every level within the Church with the sole exception of priesthood, women within the Catholic Church are making important and notable impact on the Church. Women hold positions as Catechists, teachers, School principals, College professors, Chancellors, Business managers, Canon lawyers, Chief Financial Officers and many other important jobs. To say they have no say in the Church is just plain false. Women are indispensable in their roles within the Church. If you think women do not make important decisions with the Catholic Church I ask that you look at the decision of Mother Mary to bear the Christ Child as proof otherwise.
Lucifer is beyond redemption...
So is Lucifer's Roman Catholic church!
I love my Catholic faith. Maria
whore of Babylon you mean.
yeah well ur faith is in a lie and Jesus Hates your religion
Love Jesus only.
@@sarkiesarkie4918
The Roman Catholic Church isn't the Whore of Babylon. Try again.
Justin Davis : ok. The cult of dead Mary. Priesthood of pedophiles.
"He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." -Mark 7:6-9
The Catholic religion is composed of traditions which are NOT based upon the Word of God. Matthew 23:9 warns us not to reverence any man as "Father." Yet, this is exactly what the Catholic religion practices. 1st Timothy 4:1-3 warns us about the Catholic religion...
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." -1st Timothy 4:1-3
They twist these, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. St Peter.
I'm bisexual and I'm offended that the Church thinks that I'm in a state of sin. I'm offended that the Church ever presented an awful idea like Limbo as fact. I'm offended that the Church still teaches that hell is real, an obviously made up fantasy where God sends people to suffer for things that he already planed for the 'sinners' to do. Nice logic eh? And don't give me the free will argument your God knows how stuff will play out.
There's no such thing as "bisexual". If you do men, you're gay. Sleeping with a woman every once in awhile won't take away from what you're doing with the men. Live up to it and own it. Stop trying to water it down with words like "bisexual".
I beg to differ, The Roman Catholic Church has all the necessary requirements for to enter the Kingdom of God, Jesus said to Saint Peter before his ascension into heaven. "Thou are Peter and upon this rock I will give to you the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose sins you do retain are retained" and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it'
here's the rest of that chapter , note who Peter is called ....
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
+David Butler love you David.
You are a stone [petros] and on a rock [petra] I will build my church. Big difference.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication - Rev 17
Catholics do not believe in following scripture.
1.David and Moses did not believe the Queen of Heaven Ishtar whom you call Mary intervened on their behalf.
2. David and Moses believed in Passover not pagan assyrian feast of Ishtar[Easter]
3. David and Moses did not worship a pagan god papal king = Pope. i.e see Egypt, Persian all pagan all god kings.
4. David and Moses did not make and bow to graven images.i.e have you heard about the golden calf debacle in exodus. or idolatry in Jeremiah, Kings, Ezekiel.
5.David and Moses did not believe in an afterlife or pagan immortal soul.
6. David and Moses did not make pagan sacrifices every week to the Egyptian Sun trinity Isis Horus Seth and call a piece of flour god.
7. David and Moses did not believe in sorcery, bleeding and crying statues, magic water and wine and trinkets.
2 verses down Jesus called Peter satan
owen O'Neill If Peter the pope and his so called successors were the head of the church and infallable why did Paul and Peter argue as equals and Paul condemn Peter as he was clearly in the wrong.
Acts - following day he arrived in Caesarea, where Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends.25 Peter was about to enter, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet to worship him. 26 But Peter helped him up. “Stand up,” he said, *“I am only a man myself.”*
Have you guys shown the popes and priests this. hahahah lol oh you can't cause you burned all the bibles right
Pope cannot save anyone! God can save every single person who truly wants to be saved!!! this is a challenge by the way: pray to pope- nothing will happen!!!
Pray to God, your Creator, and watch and marvel ...
@Beata Haber....you sound as fanatical as the Catholics.....how about NO god, no religion and we all start living in the 21st century instead of the middle ages and believing in magical people in the sky. Science and the natural universe are much more wondrous and beautiful than any "contrived" myths.
How's the 21st century Materialism working out for you so far? Wht part do you like best? The slaughter of 1,000,000 unborn children per year in the US? The sale of their body parts? The rationalization of euthanasia? And how long do you suppose it will be before euthanasia will be imposed on the basis of some government bureau?
How about same sex marriage, the false equivalence made between sodomy and the life-giving union of one man and one woman one time? Is that progress? How about the false moral equivalence between all religions, so that evangelical atheists can use the abomination of the 9/11 attacks to go after Christians?
The rational Western mindset is properly speaking a product of the Church, not a rival. Just as there is a need for rationality in human life, there is a need for faith, else the struggle for the moral compass inevitably point to a downward course.
IHS!
+Verumnondominatus : well, well, well. so at least we have some shared points of view. God bless🙏🏿🙏🙏🏿🙏😇😘🙏🙏🏿
+Verumnondominatus : well said Sir. so when are you going to leave satanic Roman church
Matthew: It is important not to conflate the sins of the branches with the righteousness of the vine. The protestant revolt began 499 years ago precisely because this mistake was made. That is the entire point of my original statement on my thread: The teachings of the Church are true even though the behavior of Churchmen may be false.
If we view our lives as a kind of spiritual warfare, in which our enemies are not flesh and blood (Eph. 6:12), it comes as no surprise that our enemy would seek to infiltrate the citadel of Our Lord's Church and subvert those within. It is no time to give up the citadel but to persist in waging war through prayer and penance.
You have serious misconceptions concerning the Church. I pray that you take the time and interest to learn more so that we can reasonably discuss the issues that actually separate us, rather than the ridiculous calumnies of Alexander Hislop and his ilk.
God bless.
IHS!
Pathological Narcissism abounds
Someone please tell these people there is a difference between Catholic and Christian
I love my Catholic Church!!!!
So you are ok with world wide child rape? You are ok with a leadership telling you how to live that also covered up for child raping Priests?
school teachers and other organizations are more guilty than the church...this is SOP anti catholic rhetoric.....check you facts
I love the Catholic Church too. How could I not, when I know it to be the Mystical Bride of Christ and the Mystical Body of Christ? But I don't have much respect for the present pope or most modern bishops. The way they cover up for pedophiles sickens me. I have decided not to put any money in the collection basket until Pope Francis dies or resigns.
Do you love it more than Jesus?
Here are some facts: "The History of Romanism" by John Dowling. How about "Foxe's Book of Martyrs". Or maybe "Rome and Civil Liberty" by J.A. Wylie. To top it off, your global Antichrist cult is described to perfection and in living color in Revelation chapter 17 and 18. It's undeniable!
1. For those against the Catholic Church for the fact that the Catholic Church only have men in its hierarchy, so did Jesus Christ, remember, there were no Women among His 12 Apostles. The church then is the Church now. Amen
2nd Point, The Church itself Jesus Christ gave its care to the 12 Apostles who then gave it to their successors to this very day in the Catholic Church. Every institution has its problems did not an Apostle by the name of Judas Betray him? YES! Those in the Church are sinners and only God can save us and he will,for He gave a promise that the gates of hell will not prevail over it.
Martin Sandoval The church then is the church now: A scaremongering cult full of ignorance, lies and excuses. Amen.
YES, the Catholic Church is full of sinners, but yet it is still the Church founded on Rock.
There has been fault in the Church, beginning with Judas, I am sure you will agree to this.
There is only one Lord, and it is not YOU. LOL
I'm sure you have heard Jesus Christ say: "LET HIM WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE"
Martin Sandoval I am not God and I would take it as an insult to be called God. I have no desire to establish a divine dictatorship with hellfire as a capricious punishment for crimes that are not even crimes.
Founded on Rock? More like, founded on self contradictory, inaccurate and immoral texts.
Yes, hundreds of mythologies got it wrong about the divine before, how convenient that you were raised just in THE community that really gets who God is and what he wants from all of us. Go ahead, tell us how to live, after all, it is you amongst all peoples to whom the almighty has revealed his will.
Somehow, your "Church founded on Rock" failed to enlighten its very preachers, who ended up forming the most disgusting gang of coward violence and depravity.
L, what are "crimes that are not crimes", you are not making any sense. Crime is a crime is a crime, where I come from. you must be a dictator. lol to remove a crime from being a crime.
L, Re: founded on Rock, Hmmm what church comes into your mind, when they say founded on Rock???
L, you stated:" "Church founded on Rock" failed"... L, you may not know it, but you just called Jesus Christ a liar, for you say the Church founded on rock failed. when Jesus Christ said in Matthew 16:18 below:
Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
L, You are casting stone at the Church founded on Rock, and yet you too are a sinner, at least the Jews had the knowledge not to stone Mary Magdalen, because they too were sinners.
Good Bye L. God Bless
Martin Sandoval Jesus Christ was probably not liar in the sense that he may have believed the bullshit that he was preaching. But believing something does not make it true. A deluded scaremongering cult leader he was. It is all in the Bible, check it out.
Eating meat on a certain day, having sex in a certain position or with a certain person, or wearing certain clothes... Or even thinking about these things, those are terrible crimes that deserve NEVER ENDING punishment in the eyes of the God of the Bible. And of course, not loving the great Lord and leader, in EVERY totalitarian dictatorship, is the greatest of crimes. These "crimes" are not real crimes. These are stupid rules designed to scare people into sheepish compliance.
I am not a sinner because I am not a slave. I do not recognize the moral authority of those that think they have God on their side and claim to know his mind. There is enough of this around the world causing unspeakable pain already, and motivating real crime.
Again I question - founded on Rock? More like, founded on self contradictory, inaccurate and immoral texts.
Who wants a Church that mirrors this messed up world? We should want a World that adheres to the traditional Church's teaching.
I agree. The Roman Catholic Church MUST GO.
Matthew....judge not and you will not be judged. In all charity I really think you've been on the magic mushrooms.....again.
Matthew does not say we can't judge. It says before we do we have to take the beam out of our own eye first. Matthew 7:1-5. Note Vs 5.
We are all going to be judged.
I do not subscribe to ANY religion, since Lucifer is the father of all religions. I am just a follower of Jesus Christ and I do His will, just like the apostles of old did. Peace
Hi Ben, you may mean well BUT you are misguided.
That is just your opinion. If God is misguiding me then that is fine by me. I rather listen to Him than people anytime. There is never a boring moment in my life, I enjoy the company of God 24/7. Peace
Great Ben agree. Lucifer is truly the author of confusion and religion is confusion. True follower of Jesus Christ have the Kingdom of God within them. We move as the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ leads us. Shalom Shalom.
Shalom
Of course people have the choice to be religious. No one is disputing that. What people like me wanna dispute is whether they're true or not.
I really hate obnoxious music tacked onto videos.
why doesn't the Catholic Church follow the bible?
The Church _does_ follow the Bible. Protestants have cut themselves off from recognizing the import of the Bible hence the understanding of the Church
***** Hi Joel:
Thank you for your interest. Here are some initial answers to the issues you've raised. I hope that this will be the start of a reasonable discussion...
1) Transubstantiation -- The dogma of Transubstantiation is exegeted from the following passages: Mat. 26:26-28; Mar. 14:22-24; Luk. 22:19-20; 1Cor. 11:24-29 and John 6:47-58.
Protestants, for all of their self-proclaimed love of scripture, seem to ignore or doubt the truth of the above verses, especially John 6:51 and 1 Cor. 11:29. Yours is a buffet-style faith.
2) Papal Infallibility -- This dogma is poorly understood even by Catholics. But enemies of Christ's Church often use it as an weapon of attack. The pope is infallible *_only_* when he speaks _ex cathedra_ on a matter of faith or morals, making it clear that he is speaking in such a manner and that he intends to bind all Christians to his teaching. He is specifically not permitted to invent any doctrine that is not scriptural or handed down through Apostolic succession. The scriptural basis of this dogma is based upon Mat. 16:18, Luk. 22:31-32 and Jhn. 21:15-17. Additionally, various patristic sources support the dogma.
3) Rosary -- The rosary is a meditation on scriptural passages as well as traditions in the Christian faith.
The matter of the rosary is a crucifix, a short string of five beads leading to a circle of 54 beads. The beads in the circle are divide into five decades with a bead separating the decades
The form of the rosary is a prayer on each of the beads as follows:
The Sign of the Cross -- (Mat. 28:19) a doxology to the Holy Trinity made on the Crucifix
The Apostles' Creed -- a summary of Christian belief, also made on the Crucifix
The Lord's Prayer -- (Mat. 6:9-13) made on the first of the five beads
The Holy Mary -- (Luk. 1:28, 42) made on the next three of the five beds
The Glory Be -- another doxology to the Holy Trinity made on the fifth of the five beads
Each decade is prayed beginning with the Lord's Prayer, followed by ten Hail Marys and ended by the Glory Be. Each decade is a subject of meditation according to the chaplet that the Christian wishes to focus. These are as follows:
*The Joyful Mysteries*
The Annunciation -- Luk. 1:26-38
The Visitation -- Luk. 1:39-56
The Nativity -- Luk. 2:1-20
The Presentation in the Temple -- Luk. 2:20-35
The Finding in the Temple -- Luk. 2:42-51
*The Sorrowful Mysteries*
The Agony in the Garden -- Mat. 26:36-46; Mar. 14:32-42; Luk. 22:39-46
The Scourging at the Pillar -- Mat. 27:26; Mar. 15:15; Joh. 19:1
The Crowning with Thorns -- Mat. 27:29; Mar. 15:17; Joh. 19:2-5
The Carrying of the Cross -- Mat. 27:31-32; 15:19-20; Luk. 23:26-32; Jhn. 19:16-17
The Crucifixion -- Mat. 27:35-50; Mar. 15:23-37; Luk. 33-46; Jhn. 19:18-30
*The Glorious Mysteries*
The Resurrection -- Mat. 28:1-9; Mar. 16:1-14; Luk. 24:1-32; Jhn. 20:11-16
The Ascension -- Mar. 16:19; Luk. 24:51; Acts 1:9
The Descent of the Holy Spirit -- Acts 2:1-4
The Assumption of Our Lady -- A tradition held both by the Latin and Greek Churches
The Crowning of Our Lady -- exegeted from 2 Ch. 15:16, in which the Jewish practice of naming the mother of the king as queen is shown. Thus as Our Lord is King of Kings as it is written in Apo. 19:16 (despite the title being blasphemously usurped by Artaxerxes (Ezr. 7:12) and Nebuchadnezzar (Ezr. 26:7)), so is Our Lady Queen of Heaven (despite the title being blasphemously usurped by the demonic entity Ishtar (Jer. 7:18)
Hi Matthew: I am disappointed that you pretend to give glory to God while resorting to such foul language. No one benefits from such language but the Enemy of all.
IHS!
***** Hi Joel:
You indeed requested VERBATIM justification of various Christian beliefs from scripture and I have failed, in your opinion, because I used very clear exegesis from select passages.If this is the standard you set and demand of me. I think in all fairness you should be able to meet the same standard, yes? So may I ask, where in the Bible is there VERBATIM mention of the Trinity? _Sola scriptura_? The Catholic Christian Church as antichrist?
Remember:, *_VERBATIM_*. Otherwise you are in danger of condemning yourself by the standards set for me.
Good luck. :)
IHS!
***** Is _this_ your VERBATIM response to the questions I posed? I would call this a major fail on your part. You cannot meet the standards you set for me.
You say the discussion is over. In fact you never had any intention of discussing anything, did you. You were looking for an opportunity to spout bile rather than critically discuss your position versus the Christian position, which was given to you with Biblical citations. But when confronted with a reasonable challenge, you retreat. Is this how you give glory to God? Shame on you.
You are in my prayers.
IHS!
If you believe in Gods Word how can you believe in the Catholic Church, the two are very opposed to each other. God gives everyone a choice use it wisely. Rev 18 this is the warning God as given to the Roman Catholic Church --- 4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:"Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.
6 Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
7 Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts,'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'
8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.
l love my Catholic faith and no will ever persuade me otherwise.
The Catholic Church has never been Christian - you guys are barely figuring this out? You guys don't read the Bible do you?
You certainly do not.
nobody is beyond redemption.I was however very disappointed in the popes recent comments regarding homosexuality........ who am I to judge he quipped. One could expect nothing less from an apostate. if he was a Christian he would have mentioned what is said about homosexuality in the Bible and not make such an unbelievable comment. Could he not have given a sermon on the meaning of repentance ?????? coward, knowing that his priesthood is full of abominations.
He [the Pope] cannot possibly do the things you suggest because his very position is a denial of what the Word of God says. Even if he knows what the Bible says, as Pope he cannot teach it except in a twisted and perverted manner.
Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid. - Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8
Shocking we see an immoral priest who in an attempt to defend the church proves the case of the negative !
The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and the Mystical Bride of Christ. To reject the Catholic Church is to reject Christ Himself. This is why outside the Church there is no salvation.
No doubt, if this COULD be more pathetic, it would be.
People should turn their backs on it
Seriously, this "priest", living in unrepentant sexual sin, is going to talk about being able to be self-critical? Objective disorder? This is why Roman Catholics aren't saved, they don't understand their sin, and so can't understand their need for a savior. This isn't loving God, but trying to play lawyer with Him, to escape judgement... Pray for Roman Catholics.
Wow, what holy language you use. Sick . I will pray for you.
MrJalisco1906
Way to represent to Knights of Columbus, I'm sure they'd be proud of the language you use... typical.
Since HH is part of the problem how can He reverse the decay?
“There is but ONE CHURCH in which men find salvation, just as outside the ark of Noah it was not possible for anyone to be saved.” ~ St. Thomas Aquinas OP
"Outside the Catholic Church there IS NO SALVATION" is what this quote means
I thought its Christ who saves. Read the bible!
Dr. Ronan McCrea won hands down.
Nah.... Just noise
Totally agree Patrick smith, Peter Stamford and the others arguments lacked substance . At least mccrea made concise points.
Did that guy really say that being gay is like being left-handed and that it is not a defect? This guy is a priest in the Catholic Church and he’s claiming that being gay is like being left-handed wow!
God's Word is what a Christian should live by. That Priest who is gay does not agree with his church teachings, and reason. God's Word had know place in the debate. Read what God's says about relationships. Genesis 2:18-25. Leviticus 18:22. 20:13. Romans 1:24-27. Note vs 32. People this is God's Word saying this. So that priest is not a man of God. And as I said no one in that video mentioned God's Word. Read Luke 4:3-4. 2sd Timothy 3:16-17. Not one of those on that panel mentioned God's Word. People read God's Word for your answers.
God bless you brother. God's word is the truth like a double edged sword. It pierces through anything!
Terraconsensus.. do you also condemn Christ? Since you condemn His church..
Oh how sad. As a practicing Catholic, these heresies are so dad. Abuse scandal is OVER. Bad, yes. Over? never.
Just read the Catechism. Go to confession if you are in grave matter. No abortion. No homosexual marriage. No contraception. Give to the poor. Love your neighbor. Women are involved way more than you think they are. Jesus picked 12 men apostles. Did I say keep the sanctity of human life?
the problems with Catholic things opposite to the Bible example worshiping of idol's gay is not allowed allowed in the Bible but they accept that they worship on Sunday instead of Saturday so this church is against the Bible don't you see!!!!!
I respect your honesty. Most people try to justify it with things like "slavery isn't an absolute evil" (Try telling that to slaves...) or "It made sense at the time" (So at some point in history your God, the all knowing, all compassionate being, decided that slavery was acceptable not only to allow but to sanctify?). You see theists this is why I have a hard time taking you seriously. It makes people defend things like slavery.... That's where this so called "angry atheism" comes from.
Catholics all over the globe need to read the bible diligently. They need tohave their eyes open to see clearly what God want for us his creation. The world is chaotic because we let the enemy take the lead instead of the Lord.
Truth! Whether they are Christians from the church in Rome, or non-RC Christians--we must be diligent to study the Word of God!
+Kelley Well said both of you.
BETWEEN 1962 AND 1965. A GENERAL ECUMENICAL COUNCIL TOKE PLACE DURING THE COUNCIL.WAS HELD IN ROME. A DOCUMENT CALLED "ON DIVINE REVELATION"CAME FROM THAT COUNCIL. ROMAN CATHOLICS STUDY THIS DOCUMENT. I RECOMMEND THAT YOU READ IT. EVERY MEMBER OF THE HUMAN RACE SHOULD READ THE WORD OF GOD DAILY.
The Roman Catholic Church rose out of the Holy Roman Empire a Political and Religious Entity. It continued much of the Pagan customs like Idolworship, and the Pope was given Titles Like "Vicar of Christ" and "Holy Father" a title for God in the Bible.
Furthermore the Pope / Priest claimed to have the Authority to forgive Sins. This is a Power that the Bible claims is only Gods'.
Anybody who knows History knows the RCC has behaved like a murderous Political Power, rather than Gods Church.
amen amen brother you said it right, this institution is one big man made religious system of LIES , AND NOT THE CHURCH JESUS STARTED UPON THE ONE AND ONLY ROCK HIMSELF.
BE BLESSED
IN LOVING SPIRIT
THESE SOULS NEED THE GOSPEL NOT A DEBATE
Some comments: 1. This debate presupposes certain contingent and doubtful propositions as certain criteria of judgment. More on which below. 2. Vatican II is neither the "bedrock" of the Church nor has it been "dead" for a long time. It produced one batch of documents among many and is measured by the canon of tradition and for Catholics infallible Scripture. John XXIII and Paul VI both stated that it would not be concerned with defining concepts. But: many priests make the mistake of treating it as a new, self sufficient constitution, which is simply impossible. No, not dead by a long stretch. 3. Paul Sullins has shown that 80% of the sexual abuse cases were on boys and that the correlation between frequency of abuse and percentage of the clergy that was homo-exu-l is .98 - astonishly high, well high enough to justify claiming causation. So, the problem seems mainly to do with giving some hom-sexu-ls (not a majority by any stretch) positions of authority and access to children. Sorry for how that sounds, but it is based on careful research. 4. The Amazon Synod has discussed dropping celibacy for at least some (new) priests, women's ordination, and even learning from paganism. 5. One fellow asked, Why did this (sexual abuse crisis) happen? A. The hom-sex-al clergy who were not abusing minors could 'sympathize' with with those who were and refrained from taking decisive action. B. William Colson and Carl Rogers helped introduce the 'sexual revolution' (the emancipation of predatory lust) into the Church and C. There was an active effort on the part of the enemies of the Church to infiltrate the seminaries and corrupt the clergy. See the work of George Dillon, Bella Dodd, Taylor Marshall, and Humanum Genus by Leo XIII. I could go on and on. In sum, this was a pseudo-debate by generally uninformed progressives on whether the Church can cease being what it is: the infallible and indefectible presence on Earth of the Mystical Body of Christ.
If you believe that, you re calling Jesus a liar
For all these posters who post really negative comments about the Catholic Church...you know nothing about it.. the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ the Son of God...whether you agree that or not...makes no difference to me..that is my church...and I'm staying in it. If I am wrong then God will judge me..NOT YOU. And if you're all wrong God will judge you..not me.
These are gay people debating!...
If Pope Francis cannot save Catholicism, it will save God from consuming it by fire and hopefully the people will be given a second chance.
Who cares what this dribble secularists say.. Salvation is not about human rights - it's about the spiritual life and truth. The Church is a supernatural organisation pointing people to God, if it wasn't, it wouldn't have survived these past two thousand years.
P.S. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY LINES CUTTING THROUGH MY MESSAGE ---- PLEASE IGNORE THEM !! I DIDN'T PUT THEM IN MESSAGE !! JOHN IN U.K.
children not safe in the house of god ? huh no god house , no god grow up.
Catholic apologist was a joke, just like the arguments of most Catholic apologists.
if you're not catholics, you don't have the right to put something you don't understand on trial. this is pure non sense from ignorant people who don't know what the church is. The church is founded by Jesus and it will last beyond all of you all here in this debate which is the end of time.
I'm a Roman Catholic, no ındıvidual is perfect , no peace makers are holy or perfect, any leaders of any kınds of religions christians or non-christians no one ıs perfect, for there is only the HEAVENLY FATHER WHO İS KİND AND PERFECT, nobody is rightheous except God, even the 12 apostles of our Lord and Savıor are not perfect, ıncluding the popes, cardinals, the priest, the deacons, lay people and me and you are not perfect, BUT if we repent ask forgiveness we will be forgiven .
Even with the governmental aspect I still oppose Christianity. It is way too obsessed with chastity when sexuality is perfectly natural and healthy. Hell is in of itself an immoral concept when you consider the powers of a theist God, especially the idea of predestination. Women were still pretty powerless among the early Christians although they did to some degree treat their women better than others. And slavery, something I consider to be an absolute evil, is fully sanctioned in the bible.
I think it’s pretty clear that the Catholic Church needs new leader ship. Truly holy people that care about the faith and the 1.2 billion people that make up the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the faith and the people it is not the priests and bishops Cardinals and pope they are administrators of the faith. They need to be swapped out.
This pope is even worse.....
Rather amateurish compared to the standard Intelligence^2 events, I think it would be much better if it followed the structure of the other events, but I still enjoyed it.
Also, it seems rather insulting to take someone's question, completely ignore it, and then immediately go to someone's much more controversial question without a single word. Even going back to it later, it seemed rather boorish.
Terraconsenses. .. It is Christ's Church you condemn... .
A far better debate can be viewed on RUclips, "Is the Catholic church a force for good debate" - Full version
Ok so the quote was a little wrong, big deal. It's still condescending to gays like myself. I refuse to believe that any 'compassionate' being would have been so hateful to 1/10 or 1/2 (women) of his creations.
The Catholic Church the people of God? That is not what revelations chapters 13 and 17 says. It is described as Babylon and a prostitute in details. This because e it left the truth of the Gospel purity and added traditional beliefs mixed with paganism and the adoration of Mary and dead saints as intercessors between mankind and God. Idolatry is the works of every day among Catholics. The church created its own message and Gospel which are not what the apostles preached after Jesus ascension to heaven.
As someone who is a Sephardi Jew I will never forgive the catholic church it willl take 300 years before I reconsider.
I might be an atheist I would like to see the church to have an interfaith council.
You are a Christ-killer accursed with the Blood Guilt of Deicide. See www.vaticancatholic.com for there is absolutely No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church. Jews are a sect which arose in opposition to God Lord Jesus Christ and crucified Him. It is a breakoff movement- they left the Church. Palestine belongs to the Catholic Church by Divine Law. God Lord Jesus Christ and Christianity will never forgive Christ-killers but will damn them unless them convert.
Wait a minute....so YOU, some random pice of shit is the one who will forgive the catholic church? Hahaha catholics have nothing to be forgiven for while you have PLENTY. Dipshit
When in doubt the christian anti-Semites come out
More useless nonsense coming out of the mouth of a blubbering moron, Next.
The truth only hurts the guilty. The Jew Nathan M. Pollock, an old man who worked as a translator of scientific texts and proofreader in a publishing firm, spent his recreational time in historic research. What he found was interesting. He made huge elaborate plans to celebrate the 1000th anniversary of the Jewish-Khazar alliance, and they were summarily rejected by the Zionist Regime [Israeli government] occupying Palestine. He had devoted 40 years trying to prove that six out of 10 Israelis and nine out of 10 Jews in the Western Hemisphere are not real "Jews" [he means Semites], but descendants of the Tartar-Mongol race (nomad tribes) and Khazars that were converted to Judaism en masse in 966 A.D. through the royal Edict of King Bulan III of Khazaria, when he enforced Judaism as the only legal "religion" of his nation. For in 965 the Khazars had suffered their first defeat in 500 years. Prince Sviatoslav of kiev defeated them. And since Bullan III's troops and mercenaries were said to be Christians, while his nomads were pagan worshipers, he concluded that this was the reason for his defeat. So in the year 965 the king and his nobles embraced Judaism. In 966 he imposed it on the whole kingdom going so far as to force them to learn Hebrew prayers and undergo Judaism rituals, and forced them to recognize Jewish rabbis as their spiritual leaders on pain of death. Hebrew speaking Khazar raiders forcibly abducted women, forcibly married them in full fledged Jewish ceremonies, and killed the men folk. The Khazar kingdom covered part of what is today Russia and Asia. The flourishing Jewish-Khazar kingdom was destroyed in 1230 by the Mongol invasion of Ban Khan. Following the Mongol invasion and conquest, surviving members of the Jewish-Khazar tribes trekked west and settled in Poland, Hungary, Bohemia, Austria, Romania, and the Ukraine. So the majority of the Jewish people don't even carry Semitic blood; they are not Semites. The Arabs are Semites and so are the Palestinians (since these are known to be descended from Shem, hence Semites). Since the Jewish people are today the leading persecutors of the Arabs in the Middle East, that would make the (Zionist) Jews the biggest anti-Semites in the world. (this is from news article"The Jews That Aren't" by Leo human: Coplay News Service San Diego Union - 28.8.1966)
Who is the idiot who put a minute of god awful buzzing sound at the beginning of the video? No common sense and definitely no sensitivity.
I am roman catholic. Stop attacking us.
Jesus said the gates of hell would never prevail against the Catholic Church so they won't.
Jesus said nothing about the "Catholic" church. The word "catholic" is not in the Scriptures.
I would NEVER ABANDON the Real Presence of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
Darth Vader there is NO presence!! Why do you want to put His body in your mouth and why do you want Him to sacrifice again and again! Didn’t He suffer enough for you?? He wants you to just remember and be grateful!!
@@buddyslade5933 John 6:6 Jesus tells to eat His Body and Drink His Blood. If you go to the Greek, He uses the word to Naw or Chew on. If it is symbolic He wouldn't have used this strong of language. Secondly, if Jesus fulfills the things in the Old Testament then He fulfills the Passover meal. He is the High Priest who offers Himself up as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. In the Passover, the sacrifice wasn't done there, the family who presented the lamb had to eat it. The passover is fulfilled by the Eucharist. Its not a re-sacrifice, it's a re-presentation(presenting it again) of the Sacrifice of Christ where we remember His sacrifice by doing what He told us to do.
One other thing: the Early Church believed in the true presence. A disciple of St. John the Apostle believed it to be so. Can the Church be in error that quickly? Or was it 1500 years later that people got it wrong?
Question for you: where in the Bible does remembrance = symbolic?
Why make the beginning so stupid loud?
Actually the whole thing is way too loud and I'm hearing it though phone speakers. And he's using so many more word than need be.
4% i about 18000 criminals by the way.....
The church is a museum of sinners not a museum of SAINTS. We are sinners GOD forgives but we are judgemental as human being. Christ did not condmned or judge the world...
I'm Catholic and Catholic Church is the true Church of Jesus....
Slavery is indeed in the new testament ; " Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them" (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT). Sexuality is also discouraged in the bible, yet slavery is permitted?
There were plenty of slave risings in the ancient world which always resulted mass deaths and worse conditions for slaves.
So you're idea is that the early church ought have encouraged the rebellion of slaves?
Duh.
Sexuality is always encouraged within marriage. How else can we get children?
"There's no such thing as a Catholic who isn't a 'cafeteria Catholic'"! Well isn't that quite the admission, and true of ALL Christians! Why doesn't that TELL them all something? There are no cafeteria physicists, or cafeteria biologists, perhaps when something is actually TRUE, you don't get to pick and choose what to accept if you are honest.
Atta Boy, Pat Doyle!!!!
THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST HER.WE ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH A DARK PERIOD,BUT SHE WILL BE RESURRECTED
if children were told they would burn in hell and get no presents again they would be santa believing all there lives. wouldnt even have to give em presents every year and they would accept it am i right or what ? i am
If you cannot indure being a nun, why did you enter it.
JESUS WILL SAVE HIS CHURCH.ITS TRADITION AND TEACHING.THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST HER.