"University is an Unwise Investment" Full Debate
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- versus.intellig...
Filmed at the Cambridge Union Society at Cambridge University on 3rd October, 2013.
For many Western teenagers university has long been considered a passport to the good life: a rite of passage consisting of mind-expanding study or the acquisition of a professional qualification, and meeting like-minded people often over a drink or three -- all ending up in a well paid, interesting job and a network of useful contacts.
But in these straitened times is the traditional university education really worth the time and money -- and the hangovers?
More and more young people are attending university in Britain and the US, and ever fewer graduates are finding jobs. Costs are soaring too: fees at American universities have increased by over 1000% in the last 30 years and British institutions have nearly tripled their annual fees to £9000 in the last year.
The result? A new breed of high-school leaver is emerging who combines formal learning with on-the-job experience. Businesses are increasingly interested in employing young people with a sense of determination, grit and a strong work ethic, qualities which graduates don't necessarily have.
So should the wise young high school-leaver skip university and get on with acquiring the business, tech and life skills he or she needs for a successful career? (Look what dropping out did for the likes of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.) Or is a university education still a desirable end in itself -- a way of rounding out a young person's mind and character that will be an enhancement for life?
University is not only about "employability skills". As an aspiring computer scientist, there are things I can't just learn on the Internet, either because I don't have money or I don't have a teacher. But also, the community at the university: At home, I can't interact with other CS students and share knowledge.
That's another issue, money: in the US, university is super expensive. Ironically, the disinterest in higher education in the US is causing this view to emerge because of higher costs.
Have you attended college or pursued attending?
And not sure what you meant when you said the “U.S. was emerging because of expenses in tuition.” Emerging from lack of financial means to attend college? Could you please explain?
And not to play devils advocate here...but no one has mentioned all the free money that’s actually available in scholarships. You can get it for any type of ethnicity, status (fill-time and part- time enrollment at school), for every degree...gender and marital status, extra-curricular activity/interest.
Just a thought...
The ridiculousness of the 'institutionalists' asserting that you cannot have proper interaction or a productive conversation online while they are actively participating in a Versus/IQ^2 debate broadcast on RUclips and implemented with Hangouts baffles me. *facepalm*
I love how the panel is moderated: short interventions and a respectful attitude letting the next panelist to speak when the moderator asks it. Well done!
Doing this debate in a university (where everyone is pretty much risking their finantial stability through student loans) it's not something fair and unbiased. Very few of those students would stand the idea that what they paid and are currently paying is not as useful as they thought. Let's admit it, for a substantial part of the students it's not a wise investment.
I think that’s a great point. The debaters are all academically accredited, this event is held at this specific college institution, and the audience members are students attending this facility (at least from what I’ve gathered).
I think across the board, there should have been equal variation between all - audience members and debaters, to suffice receivers and non-reviewers of a degree (whether vocationally or not), in addition to those who’ve attended courses in pursuit towards either that weren’t completed.
And debaters and students that have had success and none, having never attended either as well.
Would have made for a more interesting, and truly knowledgeable debate. Because that’s what the purpose of this was about, right? To understand and hear as much as possible, regarding info, insight, perspective, knowledge - and from all sides. Not just those in school now, or with or without a university degree. Feel it limited the debate and impact it could have otherwise have had.
Kind of unfortunate to be honest.
Great point though. Thank you for the comment.
Very interesting debate, I personally think University and the old educational system is obselete. Although, it may prove beneficial to individuals that have no drive to engage in independant learning, or no access to the internet.
Smart people dont go to university, smart people realise its a gigantic waste of time and money.
anab0lic thats true
It's quiet funny to watch a room full of people, who never earned a substantial amount of money all by themselves, getting asked if their higher education is worth 9k british pounds a year. Most of them dont even know how hard it is to earn that amount of money, therefore they should not be asking such a question.
You don’t know how everyone in that room made their living, if they did it by themselves not, or what they made.
What even qualifies as a “substantial amount?” What’s your definition of substantial? Because I’m sure it might vary depending on who you ask.
Unless you know everyone in that room, can confirm they all actually make money substantially according to your definition, and did it
by themselves...
Just something to consider...wish you would have. Because you don’t know everyone or what they’ve done to be there or if they did it alone. A lot of people do. Please don’t presume to know though without knowing.
Because you don’t. Would think you wouldn’t want people to assume or judge you too before hand also.
Hey there, really enjoyed the video - would love to get these as audio only, are you on audea?
Before watching this debate, may I comment that this debate would hardly take place if the high education is so expensive as in US or U.K.. Yes, it doesn't have to be the norm, and is not the norm in many places.
This debate is underrated
A Hybrid Vocational/Academic/Tech approach that better includes community stakeholders is an approach that will evolve.
Education shouldnt depend on how much many you are able to afford or how rich your parents are. The situation of US universities is complitly lacking any humanity. Imagine if every American is able to go to university only limited by the marks gained in high school. Paying zero dollar for higher education. How would change the US society? Did you know that there are actually leading european countries (Denmark,Germany, Finland, France...) in which the cost of visiting an university is zero euro?
Lars Schneider norway sweden to scandivia
Why haven't you invited Ken Robinson to the panel? He has a really revolutionary take on the nature of new world education.
look how scared they are for their jobs
I think all of them are bias cause all the people in there on that stage and g+ have had a college degree. They don't have that experience of the one guy that got a degree and is now flipping burgers.
'Flipping burgers'- that is a surprise. Can you provide an example of someone getting a good degree and is just forced to flip burgers for the rest of their lives.
+masonmmaspecilist yes, in over populated countries where there are no jobs; there are people that have a PhD and still can only find a job flipping burgers. You are right it is a little bit of a hyperbole inside the United States though
Bradford House Please can you provide an example of someone with a PhD (as long as its not in gender studies or Communication studies, as they are not real degrees) unable to get a job??? As I don't think you will find anyone, but if you do, it will not be the norm.
I don't understand how getting a PhD in a overpopulated country is going to prevent (if anything, it increases your chances) you from getting a high paying job.
+masonmmaspecilist The whole reason why they are flipping burgers is cause there are no jobs available but that one. It could increase your chances in getting a job maybe, but since there are none available it could not.
Bradford House There are jobs available. There are lots of jobs available, you just need drive, and you need to be smart. People that come up with excuses saying that "oh, my business failed, due to the economic collapse", "I cant find a job, because their enough", usually lack drive and are hopeless at everything they do. The quality of life of these individuals will be the same, regardless if they get a fancy degree, or if they just sit at home filling their head with 'smack'.
Asking a group of students this questions will result in such a high percentage voting against motion due to them wanting to protect there scarcity power. If the audience was mixed there might be a different result.
A lot of course and information can be done online. Courses which need instruments and physical infrastructure can be done in physical university.
People also think outside of the university community!
It us a con. Too expensive, what do they learn from those tutors who often looks scruffy and lacking in enthusiasm. A work based course of study is much useful.
if you take the money that it costs to attend university and invest it into a safe long term growth stock or ETF and work the 40k per year job as opposed to the 75k graduate job, how much more or less will you make in a lifetime?
46:18 - red head behind the old guy trying to obliterate him with laser beams.
You cant do it all online. What about programs like Engineering or Medicine?
Non humanitarian, easy to find work. Humanitarian, unemployed. Simple as.
For me personally it was the speaker Francis Gilbert that made the most astute and pertinent points of the debate. I thought the speaker Christina Patterson was an incredibly patronising , domineering and passive aggressive speaker , constantly on the defensive, and her constant insincere chuckling was frankly just irritating. If she was my professor and I had to deal with her condescending arrogance I would actually prefer to be lectured by a toilet cleaner , I mean at least a toilet cleaner despite the drudgery of their work does an actual practical real world job and possess humility unlike many of these vicious academics.
Justify david becham studies
God i hope to find the right answers on this god forsaken video, so that i don't get the fattest of L's tomorrow
This debate was 1 hour too long, it having opened with Professor Goldwin was enough of a discredit to the motion. The Internet will not produce a thinker who talks as if the image is already formed and all he has to do is wipe that post-shower mirror-mist so that the rest of us can behold the image. All hail universities. although i must say that this debate was held at the wrong great British university.
Insightful. Go to university and look for vocational training for me!
58:00 WOW XD lul I think you can meet way more people from different backgrounds on the internet than anywhere else just think about the number of people not able to attend your university
sure let's have this debate in a university.... is heaven real? speak loudly please, else we can't hear you over St. Peter's gates opening.
Что я тут делаю?)
I think all of them are bias cause all the people in there on that stage and g+ have had a college degree. They don't have that experience of the one guy that got a degree and is now flipping burgers.