When you wear that top hat in the summer, is the top of your head cooler? like with a pith helmet? and the day of the chain fire, did you have grease covering each ball? And do you remember if you got a wire ring of lead when loading? When are you going to invite us all to a range/shoot day in your parts? Some say the reason why black powder revolvers chain fire is because powder grains get caught between the slug and the chamber wall, get crushed into an extremely fine powder and form a "powder train" between the bullet and the chamber wall. This powder train resists all efforts to eliminate its effects and not even wiping a ton of grease has any effect on it. If the train is there, you will have a chain fire.
As I stated in a earlier video, I quit using grease years ago. Living in Arizona it always softened and ran all over my holsters and such. As I stated I had shot that revolver many, many times and never had any chain fire, or with any of my other black powder revolvers. Yes there was a lead ring, like many, many times before. And as stated I used a felt wad not for lubrication but as a gas check. like I did after the chain fire. This is the one and only time I ever had a chain fire. Cushing the powder and causing a powder train may be plausible, but on that particular day all 6 going off would indicate I was sloppy in loading all 6 chambers. Not likely since this was the only chain fire I have ever had.
@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 When you fired the first round it caused minute particles or dust almost that was on your hands or shirt cuff, and they found their way into the crimp of the caps at the back of the cylinder, the fact that you had a lead ring when loading means you had a tight seal, and makes me believe all of this happened at the rear of the cylinder, sometimes as nipples wear and when caps don't seat snuggly, they are squeezed a little to keep them on, and this makes a small opening on either side of the squeezed cap, small but just enough to permit minute dust powder to enter. The question is what happened to the caps on the cylinders that chain fired? The caps on the five rounds not struck by the hammer hold the answer to this. If you take powdered coffee creamer and throw it in the air and form a cloud and light it, you will see how crazy flammable and combustible it is, even when naked to the human eye.
As far as frame stretching the issue may be a problem with bullets. A friend had bought 2 Cabelas brass frame .44's of the Colt style, he also hand cast his own balls,(wheel weights) water quenched so the lead is to hard and the gun was really hard to load. Over a summer of shooting the guns were stretched to an unusable point. So soft lead only. Really good video thank you.
Chain fires usually happen from tye rear of the cylinder. The fire travels down the fire wall or rear of the frame and if the caps are loose then the fire gets in there. Usually.
You need to watch the videos I mentioned. Those chain fires happened at the front. In fact on the Channel Everything Black Powder after the controlled chain fire (done on purpose) he recycled the cylinder and the caps went off, after the chain fire.
Top Hat!!!!!!!!!!!! I like it, I get upset when you or anyone shoot BPR with baseball cap.......... Congratulations, you just talked me out of ever buying a brass frame revolver....... Your the first I heard of chain-fire in succession like that, it's probably another one of those things that there is no reason why. Now that I'm getting back into BPS after a 12 year hiadus, I'll stay with my Uberti 1851 navy with 15 grains +or-, that way if I do get a chain-fire it shouldn't be as bad as a 44 cal. chain-fire........ I for one have seen things in my life that should never had happen, then I seen things that should've happen didn't happen. Probably (why) is the oldest question in all of creation.........
That's got to be sobering to have all six chambers go off such a way. I can't remember ever hearing a similar experience as yours before. Must have sounded much like a Gatlin operating. I have had one chain fire happen to me in my first Remington new model army, I think about 1983. I was target shooting on a ridge near the north fork of the little Laramie river. It was only one chamber, the next one to be indexed. I did have a habit of one tin of caps to feed everything back when. Can't say in anyway that was the source. As for brass frames I personally have stayed away from them completely, because I knew I was going to test the limits of the gun, powder, and bullet combinations. As early as 1981 I was testing and shooting 240 grain conical bullets with a full powder charge of an unnamed burn rate. This was my solution to to being young and walking, riding, and living in grizzly country. That being said full house loads could have a source of chain fire. I will never know. I just knew a .451 round ball with 18 gr powder charge wasn't what I was banking on. Today I have designed my own line of bullets for cap and ball revolvers. Leverguns50 has tested my two lightest .44 caliber in a dragoon and my heaviest at 271 gr in two different walker videos. Mountain man
I have never heard of a chain fire that went off that slow, that is wild! As unlikely as a chain fire is to have in the first place, its even more unlikely to have all six chambers go off at a time. In fact the only time I have ever heard of that was someone who used .440 balls in their 1860 army and used felt wads over the balls and six chambers went off. I really cant guess as to how that happened other than undersized balls but if it never did it again with the same box of Speer balls than the odds of that being the culprit are slim but not impossible. It sure as hell doesn't sound like yours came from the back with how ridiculously slow it went off. Do you recall if the caps were set off afterward? That is truly strange.
Thank you for your comment. I LOVE your channel and hope one day we can meet up at a Rendezvous. It was very strange, and no I do not remember if the caps detonated or not. Keep up the great work you do on your channel
Chain fire from the cap end of the cylinder can happen due to cap fitment lose nipples very rare but possible.I had a old navy someone paper clip the nipples probably because the nipples were to short for the hammer to adequately strike the caps. I had four to five cylinders fire at once this was in my days of not knowing what an experience fire and smoke everywhere got rid of the gun just an afterthought after watching the video. I do heat my lube coat my conical and balls and still use a light lubed wad no issues went with the slixshot nipples this is in my new model army 44 loving black powder again with no issues, thanks for the video keep it up.
If you can't walk around in a top hat without catching heck, you're hanging out at the wrong nightclubs. 😂😂 Brass looks nice and I'm sure it's perfectly fine for some things but these fancy-looking brass guns are best used as props or as wall decorations. This video just confirms my suspicions. If someone wanted that look, you could always break it down and brass plate (or even better, send it off to be titanium nitrided) the parts.
I’ve had several chain fires over the years, and I personally believe if you have proper sized balls (lead that is), it happens from the back, but that is just my opinion
just had my First Chain Fire, "I think?" Kicked lots and my count got off one or two. Not as bad as I had feared all these years. think mine came from rear as I grease the snot out of front and use DIY caps. could you have made a powder mess loading? I may have? I blew off and wiped down my cylinders once loaded then I caped, but I did have lose powder about due to operator error and weather.
Do you think chain fires are more likely to happen in a particular caliber? I mean, the cylinder chambers of a 44 are closer together than on a 36. I count my blessings because I have had my 1858 since the mid 90's and started shooting it before I knew anything about chain fires. I used all the wrong size lead balls, didn't use wads, sometimes, when I didn't have them. Used max loads and filler sometimes and whatever cap I could get that fit. The only thing I did consistent back then was put bore butter on the fronts of the cylinder chambers. I guess I was lucky, but one shouldn't push their luck.
Assuming the balls were a good fit and your chambers were truly round, it's hard to know. I haven't had a chainfire yet, after 30years and Lord knows how many rounds, and I have never greased the chamber mouths. I am a gun smith so know the engineering aspects of guns pretty well; it is my firm opinion that chain fires happen at the nipple end. You mentioned having to pinch the caps, that means they were not a good fit. Add to that an even slightly weak mainspring and the hammer bounce can let a lot of fire out of the nipple. Many people have lightened the usually heavy mainspring on percussion revolvers to lighten the hammer pull, and I think that's a mistake in two ways. The first is the aforementioned hammer bounce on firing and the second is that a percussion cap needs a much harder blow to fire it than does a primer being hit by a pointy firing pin..... light springs can lead to misfires as well as chainfires. My Remington revolvers have quite heavy hammer pulls, so the hammer bounce would be minimal. When I have bought a new cap'n'ball revolver I always check the groove diameter (they can vary a bit), and make sure the chamber mouths are about .001" larger than that, with round balls being cast perhaps .004" bigger than the chamber mouths, which are very lightly chamfered. Most "44" pistols run around .450" groove diameter, so that gives .451" chambers and .454" balls....although I have run across one or two pistols a bit over that in groove size. The above match in sizes gives superior accuracy in my experience. From memory (I've had them a long time) my Remingtons were .451" groove size, so I reamed the chambers to .453-4 (they were a bit undersized at .450") and I usually use .457" balls, although latterly I have been using conicals in paper cartridges, which is a whole new sack of ferrets. As for your delayed serial chain fire,it's a bit of a mystery. You did say you were using Pyrodex, and that might have had a lot to do with it.
Pyrodex was not the cause, other wise every time I shot any of my revolvers the same thing would have happened, one would assume. In my earlier guns I shot .451 Round ball, with no problems, ever. It is truly a mystery. Thank you for your comments.
Interesting to hear your experience with the brass frame . Did you do any further investigation into the possible casting flaws after you swapped out the frame(as in try and break the frame at the cracked locations to see the voids?
Yes! This! If it's already broke, I'd be inclined to start playing with it to see what went wrong. Nowadays, when high quality parts are cast, the mould is in a centrifuge that spins it really fast while the molten metal is poured in. That's at least how it SHOULD be done. I've had knife guards snap on me and the usual cause isn't huge grain size or slag inclusions-it's always air bubbles trapped in the casting. And they're always cheap knives. I would bet this is why these revolver frames are breaking. He didn't mention any names or brands, but I have my suspicions as to which ones they are. I'd be willing to bet they're made in Spain which has a long-standing "hit or miss" reputation when it comes to pistols.
I think I know. U got lucky, crazy scary feeling that I wouldn't wish on any shooter. Well least u didn't get hurt . IDK what make it timed like that but the top 🎩 hat plays. I'd say it stays. So sir top um hat stay safe from ur ole hillbilly buddy
@@Roman-c8n depends on the alloy. I've read about one specific aluminum alloy (think it was 7075 AL) that rivals 1060 carbon steel in tensile and shear strength but that would probably be the only one I'd trust.
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w7Wf0h1Q8a4/mqdefault.jpg)
80s-90s. The years get away from us at times.
Far as I know it is user error on chain fire, and I have a brass 44 12 years. Now no issues on 20 grains
I've had a brass 1858 sheriff for years with no issues
Awesome hat scary chain fire
Have a great New Years Mike & Kim.
When you wear that top hat in the summer, is the top of your head cooler? like with a pith helmet? and the day of the chain fire, did you have grease covering each ball? And do you remember if you got a wire ring of lead when loading? When are you going to invite us all to a range/shoot day in your parts? Some say the reason why black powder revolvers chain fire is because powder grains get caught between the slug and the chamber wall, get crushed into an extremely fine powder and form a "powder train" between the bullet and the chamber wall. This powder train resists all efforts to eliminate its effects and not even wiping a ton of grease has any effect on it. If the train is there, you will have a chain fire.
As I stated in a earlier video, I quit using grease years ago. Living in Arizona it always softened and ran all over my holsters and such. As I stated I had shot that revolver many, many times and never had any chain fire, or with any of my other black powder revolvers. Yes there was a lead ring, like many, many times before. And as stated I used a felt wad not for lubrication but as a gas check. like I did after the chain fire. This is the one and only time I ever had a chain fire. Cushing the powder and causing a powder train may be plausible, but on that particular day all 6 going off would indicate I was sloppy in loading all 6 chambers. Not likely since this was the only chain fire I have ever had.
@@lamebeavertradingco.1642 When you fired the first round it caused minute particles or dust almost that was on your hands or shirt cuff, and they found their way into the crimp of the caps at the back of the cylinder, the fact that you had a lead ring when loading means you had a tight seal, and makes me believe all of this happened at the rear of the cylinder, sometimes as nipples wear and when caps don't seat snuggly, they are squeezed a little to keep them on, and this makes a small opening on either side of the squeezed cap, small but just enough to permit minute dust powder to enter. The question is what happened to the caps on the cylinders that chain fired? The caps on the five rounds not struck by the hammer hold the answer to this. If you take powdered coffee creamer and throw it in the air and form a cloud and light it, you will see how crazy flammable and combustible it is, even when naked to the human eye.
As far as frame stretching the issue may be a problem with bullets. A friend had bought 2 Cabelas brass frame .44's of the Colt style, he also hand cast his own balls,(wheel weights) water quenched so the lead is to hard and the gun was really hard to load. Over a summer of shooting the guns were stretched to an unusable point. So soft lead only. Really good video thank you.
Thank you for your comment and insights.
Chain fires usually happen from tye rear of the cylinder. The fire travels down the fire wall or rear of the frame and if the caps are loose then the fire gets in there. Usually.
You need to watch the videos I mentioned. Those chain fires happened at the front. In fact on the Channel Everything Black Powder after the controlled chain fire (done on purpose) he recycled the cylinder and the caps went off, after the chain fire.
Top Hat!!!!!!!!!!!! I like it, I get upset when you or anyone shoot BPR with baseball cap.......... Congratulations, you just talked me out of ever buying a brass frame revolver.......
Your the first I heard of chain-fire in succession like that, it's probably another one of those things that there is no reason why. Now that I'm getting back into BPS after a 12 year hiadus, I'll stay with my Uberti 1851 navy with 15 grains +or-, that way if I do get a chain-fire it shouldn't be as bad as a 44 cal. chain-fire........
I for one have seen things in my life that should never had happen, then I seen things that should've happen didn't happen. Probably (why) is the oldest question in all of creation.........
That's got to be sobering to have all six chambers go off such a way. I can't remember ever hearing a similar experience as yours before. Must have sounded much like a Gatlin operating. I have had one chain fire happen to me in my first Remington new model army, I think about 1983. I was target shooting on a ridge near the north fork of the little Laramie river. It was only one chamber, the next one to be indexed. I did have a habit of one tin of caps to feed everything back when. Can't say in anyway that was the source.
As for brass frames I personally have stayed away from them completely, because I knew I was going to test the limits of the gun, powder, and bullet combinations. As early as 1981 I was testing and shooting 240 grain conical bullets with a full powder charge of an unnamed burn rate. This was my solution to to being young and walking, riding, and living in grizzly country. That being said full house loads could have a source of chain fire. I will never know. I just knew a .451 round ball with 18 gr powder charge wasn't what I was banking on. Today I have designed my own line of bullets for cap and ball revolvers. Leverguns50 has tested my two lightest .44 caliber in a dragoon and my heaviest at 271 gr in two different walker videos.
Mountain man
Thank You for your comments. I do wish I had a explanation for what happened.
I have never heard of a chain fire that went off that slow, that is wild! As unlikely as a chain fire is to have in the first place, its even more unlikely to have all six chambers go off at a time. In fact the only time I have ever heard of that was someone who used .440 balls in their 1860 army and used felt wads over the balls and six chambers went off. I really cant guess as to how that happened other than undersized balls but if it never did it again with the same box of Speer balls than the odds of that being the culprit are slim but not impossible. It sure as hell doesn't sound like yours came from the back with how ridiculously slow it went off. Do you recall if the caps were set off afterward? That is truly strange.
Thank you for your comment. I LOVE your channel and hope one day we can meet up at a Rendezvous. It was very strange, and no I do not remember if the caps detonated or not. Keep up the great work you do on your channel
Chain fire from the cap end of the cylinder can happen due to cap fitment lose nipples very rare but possible.I had a old navy someone paper clip the nipples probably because the nipples were to short for the hammer to adequately strike the caps. I had four to five cylinders fire at once this was in my days of not knowing what an experience fire and smoke everywhere got rid of the gun just an afterthought after watching the video. I do heat my lube coat my conical and balls and still use a light lubed wad no issues went with the slixshot nipples this is in my new model army 44 loving black powder again with no issues, thanks for the video keep it up.
If you can't walk around in a top hat without catching heck, you're hanging out at the wrong nightclubs. 😂😂
Brass looks nice and I'm sure it's perfectly fine for some things but these fancy-looking brass guns are best used as props or as wall decorations. This video just confirms my suspicions. If someone wanted that look, you could always break it down and brass plate (or even better, send it off to be titanium nitrided) the parts.
I’ve had several chain fires over the years, and I personally believe if you have proper sized balls (lead that is), it happens from the back, but that is just my opinion
one would think. Both the Old Ranger and Everything Black Powder show they come form the front.
just had my First Chain Fire, "I think?" Kicked lots and my count got off one or two. Not as bad as I had feared all these years. think mine came from rear as I grease the snot out of front and use DIY caps.
could you have made a powder mess loading? I may have? I blew off and wiped down my cylinders once loaded then I caped, but I did have lose powder about due to operator error and weather.
Pale Rider rulez! ✌️ Greetings from Hungary!
Do you think chain fires are more likely to happen in a particular caliber? I mean, the cylinder chambers of a 44 are closer together than on a 36. I count my blessings because I have had my 1858 since the mid 90's and started shooting it before I knew anything about chain fires. I used all the wrong size lead balls, didn't use wads, sometimes, when I didn't have them. Used max loads and filler sometimes and whatever cap I could get that fit. The only thing I did consistent back then was put bore butter on the fronts of the cylinder chambers. I guess I was lucky, but one shouldn't push their luck.
The bore butter was probably just enough to keep you safe.
Assuming the balls were a good fit and your chambers were truly round, it's hard to know. I haven't had a chainfire yet, after 30years and Lord knows how many rounds, and I have never greased the chamber mouths. I am a gun smith so know the engineering aspects of guns pretty well; it is my firm opinion that chain fires happen at the nipple end. You mentioned having to pinch the caps, that means they were not a good fit. Add to that an even slightly weak mainspring and the hammer bounce can let a lot of fire out of the nipple. Many people have lightened the usually heavy mainspring on percussion revolvers to lighten the hammer pull, and I think that's a mistake in two ways. The first is the aforementioned hammer bounce on firing and the second is that a percussion cap needs a much harder blow to fire it than does a primer being hit by a pointy firing pin..... light springs can lead to misfires as well as chainfires. My Remington revolvers have quite heavy hammer pulls, so the hammer bounce would be minimal.
When I have bought a new cap'n'ball revolver I always check the groove diameter (they can vary a bit), and make sure the chamber mouths are about .001" larger than that, with round balls being cast perhaps .004" bigger than the chamber mouths, which are very lightly chamfered.
Most "44" pistols run around .450" groove diameter, so that gives .451" chambers and .454" balls....although I have run across one or two pistols a bit over that in groove size. The above match in sizes gives superior accuracy in my experience. From memory (I've had them a long time) my Remingtons were .451" groove size, so I reamed the chambers to .453-4 (they were a bit undersized at .450") and I usually use .457" balls, although latterly I have been using conicals in paper cartridges, which is a whole new sack of ferrets.
As for your delayed serial chain fire,it's a bit of a mystery. You did say you were using Pyrodex, and that might have had a lot to do with it.
Pyrodex was not the cause, other wise every time I shot any of my revolvers the same thing would have happened, one would assume. In my earlier guns I shot .451 Round ball, with no problems, ever. It is truly a mystery. Thank you for your comments.
Gotta get me a top hat
Interesting to hear your experience with the brass frame . Did you do any further investigation into the possible casting flaws after you swapped out the frame(as in try and break the frame at the cracked locations to see the voids?
Yes! This! If it's already broke, I'd be inclined to start playing with it to see what went wrong. Nowadays, when high quality parts are cast, the mould is in a centrifuge that spins it really fast while the molten metal is poured in. That's at least how it SHOULD be done. I've had knife guards snap on me and the usual cause isn't huge grain size or slag inclusions-it's always air bubbles trapped in the casting. And they're always cheap knives. I would bet this is why these revolver frames are breaking. He didn't mention any names or brands, but I have my suspicions as to which ones they are. I'd be willing to bet they're made in Spain which has a long-standing "hit or miss" reputation when it comes to pistols.
I think I know. U got lucky, crazy scary feeling that I wouldn't wish on any shooter. Well least u didn't get hurt . IDK what make it timed like that but the top 🎩 hat plays. I'd say it stays. So sir top um hat stay safe from ur ole hillbilly buddy
Thank you.
I would never buy a brass frame revolver
That gun ruined me on ever buying a brass framed revolver.
What about aluminum?
@@Roman-c8n depends on the alloy. I've read about one specific aluminum alloy (think it was 7075 AL) that rivals 1060 carbon steel in tensile and shear strength but that would probably be the only one I'd trust.
Hat looks pathetic!