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Severe ADHD here, meditation helps develop the "focus" muscle that so many people lack. It helped me initially, until I became adept at the whole breathing thing and my brain learned to automate that process while thinking of other things, but it's a cute novel trick in the beginning, especially for ADHD, it was the first time my brain was silent ever.
@@Abzuhuzwn It's also possible that you gained more mindfulness and simply started noticing more subtle thoughts. It's common for meditators to think their mind is getting busier as they progress on the journey because metacognitive awareness increases and now you're much more aware of your inner dialogue. Whereas, before meditation we're so consumed by the constant narratives that we don't even realise they're running.
@reedwill953 I'd love to learn more ways, I just noticed that the concentrating thing helped me from feeling literally retarded all the time, but ultimately I still have ADHD haha
Sam's remarkable ability to use the precisely perfect word to elucidate the concepts he's explaining never ceases to amaze me. If there were ever a wizard of language, he's it.
Sam talks slowly but says so much in every word that I have to replay it 5 times. He is unbelievably careful and clear and it’s such a blessing to hear him for free.
The biggest benefit I've had from meditation in my day-to-day is that I'm now able to have a barrier between arising feelings and emotions and sitting in those feelings and emotions. When a feeling comes, it first has to come through me and I can choose if I want to let that feeling pass or indulge in it. Whereas before, emotions just occurred and kept me in that state of mind. When you meditate, you build that muscle in your brain.
This weird book puts Peterson in his place and gives the first step to satori. It is unlike anythong you have ever read and the guy who wrote it is completely unknown: ruclips.net/video/BX2QpSdJVOo/видео.html
@@goyonman9655 s.i. ? what is that? satori is another name for nirvana. I just mentioned this becaseu the book goes into it a bit. It is not a book about meditation. In fact it is not a book about anything or any one thing.
Sam Harris taught me how to meditate way before the Waking Up app existed. He had a guided meditation on SoundCloud, I used to listen to it quite often and something just clicked for me. I will forever be grateful to him for that.
Yes, they are very intelligent, but yet humble, and they both have a way of articulating their thoughts concisely and effortlessly. I really enjoy listening to both of them.
@@benjierodriguez6518Sam Harris is very intelligent and articulate, but I wouldn’t say humble. He tends to shut down and dismiss opposition with an aura of overconfidence. He has absolutely influenced me and is a great thinker, but it is important to critically look at how and what he is saying
Appreciate that! I have actually just sent Alex a request for collaboration. He has been so influential to me that I'd love to have it come full circle. @@DavidSimic-ig9yd
Appreciate that! I actually just sent Alex a request for collaboration. He has been so influential to me that it would be great to see it come full circle.@@DavidSimic-ig9yd
Close your eyes and put your attention upon your breath as it goes in and out. First focus on your abdomen as it rises and falls. Then you can move to focusing your attention on the breath going in and out of your nostrils. It matters not what you focus on. It could be any image. it could be a mantra or a candle flame. The object is only used as a method to hold your attention to. As you put your attention either on the breath, within 2 or 3 seconds you will find your thoughts come in and your mind begins to wander away from your focus of attention. As soon as you become aware that you are not focusing on the breath, you gently bring your attention back to it. You keep doing this. Keep practicing, and one day you will find you can sit still with mind focused upon the object of your attention without your mind drifting away for about 10, 15 or 20 minutes. When you get to that stage, your mind is now completely still - having no thoughts, no images and no memories - nothing. You become "aware" of that Space or Void. You become aware of the Space between thoughts. The trick is to hold on to the Space between thoughts. You are no longer thinking. You now have "awareness" - with no thinking. You have the awareness of the "I am" - that you exist. You now know that your awareness exists without thoughts. You know that your self is separate from thoughts. The next stage is you turn your "awareness" upon that Space or Void. You keep holding your attention upon that Space and slowly you will find that that Space is the "I AM" - the consciousness of Cosmic Consciousness. You will find that your consciousness is connected to the "I AM". What is happening here is your consciousness is turning in upon itself - upon consciousness itself. Where you direct your thoughts, is where your energy and consciousness goes. Before you took up meditation, your consciousness was pulled outwards through the 5 senses to the outer world of matter. Your thoughts pulled you into the world of matter. Hence, that is the reality that you see and believe in. Scientists use their consciousness to measure and observe the outward manifestations of matter - in the world of form. And what is form? Form is a manifestation from energy grouped into electrons, atoms and molecules. Science now knows that all seemingly physical objects are not physical at all but ultimately come from energy. In other words, reality has no form but is made up from a sea of energy. And this sea of energy is consciousness. You have consciousness. And your consciousness springs from the Source of the greater Consciousness. Scientists come to the false conclusion there is no Intelligence or God because they are using consciousness through the five senses of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. The five senses of humans are perceived through the use of sensory organs. They will never get to the Truth and to Ultimate Reality of existence if they employ their consciousness through the false illusion of the five senses. In order to know the Supreme Intelligence and Creation behind all that is, in order to know Truth and Reality, you have to turn your awareness inwards to your inner consciousness and not through the five senses. Meditation is the key and the science to knowing the Ultimate Reality. In meditation you are now using consciousness to focus in upon Consciousness itself! That is the Secret Path that sages in the past have kept to a select few. But now meditation is known world-wide and accepted. Now science is recognizing, through quantum physics, that form is an illusion and that energy and consciousness is the reality. And in order to become aware of that energy and consciousness one has to direct one's consciousness and awareness away from the illusion of the five senses and turn one's energy and focus within oneself upon consciousness itself - stilling your mind and focusing in upon that Silence and Void. The more you are able to reside your awareness upon this Silence or Void, you will slowly begin to feel stirrings of peace and contentment. Later this feeling of peace will turn into ineffable joy. And you will have no doubt that you are in the Presence of All That Is. You are in the Presence of Mind behind all individual minds. You are in the Presence of Consciousness that is behind all separate individual consciousness. You are making contact with Source or in religious terms, God. The fundamental Truth that material scientists are not aware of, is that the Universe is Mind. Everything is a sea of Mind - a sea of Consciousness. Ultimately nothing is physical. Having reached this "awareness" of the Space, it will create a vacuum. And one day that vacuum will be filled by the Presence of God or Infinite Intelligence or whatever name you call it. When that happens, you have made contact with Source. From that moment on, your Path in life will become smoother. In fact, even before you make contact with Source, the closer you move towards this Source through meditations, the more you find your ego stands aside and allows the Higher Power to come into operation. Providential help and extraordinary guidance may begin to appear of their own accord. Without lifting a foot or moving a finger, the true needs of a man who has begun to come into communion with his spiritual Source may be supplied at his very doorstep and always at the psychological moments of necessity. This applies to his spiritual and mental needs no less than to material needs.
Meditation has completely changed me. I almost feel like the person I “thought” I was is dead or doesn’t exist anymore or that I can’t really remember who that character was. I had chronic anxiety attacks which I know longer have. I rarely worry at all. The downside for me is that I feel bored more now. I’m just going through the boredom without judging it with hopes it’ll pass. Good luck to anyone starting out meditating and stick with it.
Pay attention to where the boredom arises from. I also suffered regularly from anxiety attacks and and since I started meditating about 2 years ago, I have had none. It's truly amazing and I'm glad someone else out there is finding success as well! I was feeling bored for a bit as well but if you pay attention to the boredom in a similar way to how you may watch your thoughts or your breath (depending on your practice) you will see the boredom arises in much the same way the anxiety arises, from nothing and then into thoughts in your head. Whether it be thoughts of anxiety or boredom flowing down the river of awareness, remember you are the river and theres no need to cling to either thought. Good luck in your practice!
@@economicus499 Thank you! Reading this had a calming effect to me. I was walking my dogs the other day and thought to myself that the trees I was looking at are no different than my thoughts coming and going. Everything is coming and going in my awareness. It’s pretty damn awesome when I have those experiences. I’ll definitely watch my boredom like everything else. Thanks again!
Question. Do your days feel shorter or longer after having done this? I will meditate if it makes me perceive time as slower. I want to live a nice, long life.
@@ShaShaSha534 It feels long like it never ends. Continuous never ending time. I feel like I’ve lost track of time or no time exists. Hard to explain. It’s like life is just happening and I’m here watching it
@@Justfor2day10 That sounds wonderful and I have an idea of what you're talking about. Why should we stress out about everything when we're here? We should just be here.
You’re proud that he had a conversation about meditation??? Like you’ve been waiting forever for this particular moment?? He’s great, but these comments are so odd.
@@VA-gu1jq I also don't get it. I mean I do but I don't. Yes Alex has gained so many viewers and subscribers by now that he's worth Sam's time. I guess you could be proud of him if you are seriously invested in his success. Not sure why you would be though. I mean, Alex is definitely an interesting bloke but this is level of personal investment with someone I don't actually know is extremely rare for me, if existent at all. So in that sense I don't get it.
@@jozefwoo8079 I don't think it's unusual to be proud of someone for expanding their views. Even if you don't know them at all. What makes this different is a lot of people in this community have seen Alex slowly mold into who he is today based on people like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris was involved in a lot of the same conversations at the time. It's a mix of being proud of Alex's character development and excitement that we're coming full circle being able to finally converse with Sam.
@@SneakyLeifyes I get that, but I still don't share those feelings generally. I can be excited if my favorite sports person is winning but I wouldn't call that proud. So in that sense I don't get it. People are different. That doesn't mean that my way of experiencing this, is better. It's just odd to feel proud in this case (for me). It sounds a bit like he sees Alex as *his* little boy who has finally achieved something meaningful.
I was skeptical of meditation until I started meditating. Thankfully I was willing to put aside my own beliefs and ideas about what meditation is and what it could do for me. I have been meditationg now every day for 26 years.
@@haraldtheyounger5504 clearly you've never tried it. its no delusional to want to calm down your body and relax. its not delusional to take a look in the mirror which is what meditation is. it will help you gain awareness of all of your faults so you can change all of the bad parts of yourself. clearly you need to try it. mocking someone because they do meditation. clearly you have some issues to work on if you have the balls to face your own demons that is... which is exactly what meditation will do.
yeah exactly! its helped me a great deal. before meditation I was 440lbs and I was always so lazy. I ate junk foods everyday. I was very unhappy. Then I started doing meditation and it changed my life. I lost 200lbs in 2 years, starting eating healthy, got off the psych drugs, got off of all medications honestly, and got myself out of poverty to and into riches. It really did change my life 100%! Its a great self healing tool. Thank god!
In Zen Bhuddism we consider the mind a sixth sensory organ (the usual 5 plus the mind). It’s simply an organ that secretes thoughts - the problem is as Sam says, that we attach to these thoughts and we ascribe them as “ours.” We are not our thoughts - it’s easy to prove this as you don’t cease to exist when you manage to quell your thoughts.
Sam explains the basics well and thoroughly. Alex honestly expresses a very common attitude - use an ignorant belief rather than experience to motivate action. It does take time to come into a steady meditative practice, and it's not for everybody. It's often suffering that lead people to meditation, as well as an honesty to acknowledge our own stupidity.
This is single-handedly the best explanation of meditation that I have yet to come across. You're not communing with the divine, you're simply controlling your attention and being the ever present observer. I can't wait to see the full episode, this is sure to be a great conversation
@@Darkloid21 thoughts happen regardless if we want them to or not. They're an ever present part of the human experience. Meditation stops the incessant need to think, and identify with our thoughts. Meditation allows is to be still when we don't have to think (e.g. when were trying to get to sleep etc.) Incessant thought is a disease and pathological. The most unhappy I've ever been has been when my thoughts were in control of me
@@DamienChristopher2001 Then you don't know meditation then. Incessant thought isn't a disease, it's the reason we do anything. When you silence that you silence life. I know because I reached the endpoint to meditation. It's not peace or pain, it's just blank. It's also ironic you mention sleep because meditation is about avoiding falling asleep.
@@joeniemchak haha bro, what are the odds. I actually saw your channel like a year ago or so with Frank yang. I remember thinking to myself, this guy has reached peace. Yeah I i've been practicing for like 2 years. Haven't gotten any crazy results, more just being able to acknowledge ego more, enjoy the present, and overcome some addictions. How have you been tho?
I was, like Alex, skeptical of meditation for a while. It felt a little "woo-woo" to me and I didn't really get it. Then i took a class on the history and philosophy of meditation going through various eastern traditions and I've been meditating for 20 minutes daily for 2 months and it's been a tremendous benefit in my life.
Love this. It actually gave me an idea for how meditation is a distinct experience from just sitting with your thoughts. (I did already have some ideas of what mindfulness meditation in particular is though.)
I’ve been watching your channel for the last 6 years (my god it doesn’t feel like that long at all), and I’m so excited you’re finally having this convo. I’ve been a subscriber almost since the beginning, and I’m so proud of what you’re doing today - not that that means anything from a random subscriber lol. But still congrats on the growth and I look forward to the full interview!!!
Sam got me into a meditation practice a number of years ago. I’ve done a few 1-2 week long silent meditation retreats, and it’s been one of the richer aspects of my life. Without needing to buy into the more preposterous supernatural elements of Buddhism and the surrounding culture, meditation can provide deep experiential insights into truths of the nature and structure of our consciousness. I’d definitely encourage people to try Sam’s short meditation on RUclips for a few days running and see if you don’t find it a beneficial and pleasant experience.
@@mr.c2485 Dude, you are such a negative Nancy. We get it, you hate meditation and think it is stupid. But it can definitely be beneficial, if for no other reason than it helps you notice and gain a bit more control over the countless errant thoughts that emerge on a daily basis. Is it so hard to see how that can be beneficial? If I can catch myself when some pointless thought pops into my head and save myself 20 wasted minutes pondering something that will serve no purpose, that sounds pretty beneficial. Plus, I think it's better to live in and appreciate the present moment than it is to be in your head ruminating about the past or stressing about the future.
@@zeusthecat6295 I could benefit from this very much right now. My mind has been an endless soup of tangled thoughts that take me for a ride against my will. I think taking control of that is exactly what I need
@@mr.c2485 You're the very type of person/character who would benefit most from mastering meditation. You don't know, what you don't know! But we who have persevered with learning meditation know.
focus you life down to this moment and your present surroundings and not get caught up and swept away by all the negative anxiety arousing mental projections, most of which never come to pass.
"The curious thing about breath is that it can be looked at both as a voluntary and an involuntary action. You can feel on the one hand I am doing it, and on the other hand, it is happening to me. And that is why breathing is the most important part of meditation: because it is going to show you, as you become aware of your breath, that the hard and fast division that we make between what we do on the one hand, and what happens to us on the other, is arbitrary" -- Alan Watts
If meditation hasn't worked for you so far because you cant seem to sustain attention on your breath or something similar please remember such focus aspects are not necessary. Meditation's 'breakthrough' moment is when your mind goes from being in a state similar to riding a motorcycle to sitting in a bus. From excessive active participation with what you see, hear feel etc to passive and relaxed observation of whats passing by. No formula exists for getting from one state to the other. Gentle regular practice of physical stillness.
I never really understood the point of meditation, but after watching this video, I'm remember that when I was a kid I used to suddenly and without obvious reason find myself in a state where I felt as though I was just observing myself doing things in the world. It was a weird feeling that I had a very difficult time articulating to adults (still do). It would last sometimes for several minutes or maybe a few hours, and it would happen fairly often -- every few days or so. But I can't remember the last time I felt like that. Is this what the state you speak of?
I disagree, there absolutely are formulas to achieve this, tho I accept that I cannot guarentee that one specific technique will work 100% for you, that's what charlatans do. There are 100s of types of meditation techniques, do the one that works best for you and gets you in that state of mind. Sound based stuff generally works better on me than breathing or mindfulness stuff (By better, I mean I can reach that state more quickly)
Alex, you should talk to Dr.K(Alok Kanojia) about meditation. He's a great psychiatrist and very insightful to listen to. Even though he's religious, I find him much more understanding of the current generation's(my) problems than any atheist I listen to.
Anyone that likes these two should have a listen to Destiny as well. He’s a bit more edgey, but also incredibly interesting to listen to. Alex + Sam are my favourites, but destiny is in the same area.
Amazing to have been apart of this journey. I remember your debates with rationality rules and Oakes so many years ago on free will and how essential Sam Harris was to the topic.
I’ve been a serious meditator for about 25 years (Soto Zen Buddhism is my home lineage, but have studied under teachers in various traditions). I always say: meditation is like any bodily discipline (sport, dance, yoga, martial arts), except that instead of training the body, it is for training your attention. There are countless techniques and methods, but ultimately you are just training your attention to not wander, as Sam articulates well. And as he points out, that’s why so many people hate it. Besides it being a difficult and boring task, many people are very disconcerted by the profound implications of the fact that no matter how hard we try, we cannot introspectively perceive where our thoughts come from.
I've tried meditating and it was tough to have that depth of self-perception and awareness, and just sit with it. It was an uncomfortable place to be for me, and I've never tried going back to it.
@@TH-nx9vf “Spiritual awakening” is a term that is both vague and loaded. I’ve had many experiences, on the cushion and off, that I don’t think I would have had without training my attention through meditation. I’ll leave it at that. I’m not a spiritual person, I’m profoundly skeptical when it comes to metaphysics and cosmology, but for me the benefits of well-trained attention are enough.
@@TH-nx9vf….meditation will hopefully save you from what people these days refer to as so-called ‘spiritual awakening’. Like so many terms these days it’s become largely meaningless through its overuse.
@@boochi7087 The modern world is designed to keep your head spinning. One trick that’s as ancient as meditation traditions themselves, is to pick an object of focus that is pleasant, like a pleasant sensation or image. The pleasure associated with the object can often help keep the attention focused, and make the effort seem less drudgerous.
That's it. This is exactly what I wrote on your channel way before that you have to experiment with meditation. For an intelligent person like you, this is going to be so exciting. I was obsessed with western philosophy and linear logic until I started meditating. And started to lucid dreams and do OBEs at will and everything then changed. The crox of meditation is "non judgemental observation". It's lovely to see you grow. Would have loved to have this conversation with you. ❤ Sam did a relatively good job explaining meditation, But I'd say it's not about "paying close attention to the thoughts" that will get you to experience it deeply but actually " letting go" and the principle of non judgemental observation.... ❤
This is a great advertisement for mindfulness/meditation. Exceptional speakers, both of you, but Sam Harris' explanations are the most crystal clear I've ever heard.
If you're at all interested in philosophy of mind or learning what meditation is, I highly recommend doing a 10-day Vipassana course if you can afford the time to do it. I'd done month-long stretches of daily meditation sessions and saw some results... but the 10-day course was *by far* the hardest thing I've ever gone through in my life, and I had some pretty wild experiences and insights into the way my mind works. I recommend one that's "as taught by S. N. Goenka" since there's very little metaphysical claims involved in the teaching, and the little that there is can simply be disregarded without taking away from the whole experience.
@@animefurry3508 Not just the Buddhist tradition. Sanatana Dharma is a mother of a large chunk of Eastern traditions. I hope Alex looks into Advaita Vedanta!
Wow that must feel like such an accomplishment when someone with such an influence on your life, takes the time to sit down with you. Much love Alex you're the best❤
The thig with You athiests is that You blame religion even for world hunger but take credit for every othe good thing, whether You liked it or not, spirituality cam with religion, it's a part and parcel of it, ya'll made fun of religious people, then realized the alarming suicide rates then decided that hey why not take th spirituality part and act that we came up with it, more entitled than a BTS fan base.
@@badza47 While I agree I should've worded it better, what I was insinuating is that whenever an athiest talks spirituality, they make it sound as if it's something they came up with and not necessarily tied to religion. Thank You for pointin that out.
Meditation is not the best word, in India and Tibet is best described as " cultivation" or "familiarization" because you can use your mind to cultivate a virtue or mental state or to know your experience,. Obviously there are many techniques for different proposites under the umbrella of meditation, there is concentration, analyses, mere awareness, resting awareness, self inquire and the union of tranquility and insight as in Tibetan Buddhism or just witnessing like Mahamudra or Dzogchen.
I love how sam Harris digs at other people who have large amounts of experience in meditation and then reels of his experience in suggestive way as to say this is the way to look at it while disregarding others experiences. Quite an oxymoronic way to calculate experiences when all are as valid. My own experience I see places as clear as I see with my own eyes in my mind. Now you can poo poo it but because you haven’t experienced it, does that really mean it can’t be done. How you view the possibility is the key to you unlocking the technique, you think it’s hard to do, then it will be hard, if you feel it’s impossible then it won’t ever happen. Meditation is a window into your belief system and the basis of what you believe deep within your subconscious will arise. Now remember how you dream and that you see in your dream,same mechanism. For those who didn’t think it was possible to see places in your mind and I gave you an example of the mechanism within dreams see how your belief system was blocking you from thinking it can be done. All things are possible, miracle is just a word telling you that it can’t be done. You decide the definition always
Yes! I would add that we already have a sense that thinking occurs independently from our will: examples include having a song stuck in our heads which we feel like is not « us » because we will say i have this song stuck in my head or my mind can’t stop thinking about __ It’s interesting to see how we can see some thoughts as just passing by, while others come with a belief that we are the thinker. Essentially as sam harris says you come to a point where there is no difference between a thought passing through consciousness and a car passing down the road. They both happen completely outside of anyone’s choice. They are just happening. The thought of me or being a self is no exception. It’s just that we are really identified with it.
This idea of meditation and mindfulness as explained by Sam has radically changed my life. I am no longer identified by my thoughts and I can recognize them for what they are and proceed accordingly. This is a huuuggee secret to some inner peace
No one would say they're a piano skeptic if they have never tried to learn piano. Meditation is something you can get better at with practice. You can find out for yourself what Sam is saying
Learning to play the piano leads to a pleasing sound for all to enjoy and appreciate. Not so with meditation. I can enjoy one’s music even if they’re a total asshole. Sharing your meditative experience doesn’t elieviate the asshole problem.
Your comment evokes something that Harris wrote about in "Waking Up." He pointed out that it's relatively easy to determine whether someone is a golf pro. If they can reliably put the little white ball into the hole. And if you can't, then there is some ground for being interested in what they have to say. But (Harris goes on) it's not so clear when it comes to spiritual attainment. And this may be the same difference that you're calling out between piano playing and meditation. At least with the piano you can hear something. But successful mindfulness doesn't produce a phenomenon in the usual active sense. It produces a CESSATION of an inner monologue that we don't usually notice or regard as important to notice anyway. How do we begin to evaluate the cessation of a process when the act of evaluation itself runs in that process? So it's altogether a bit tricky to talk about. But that doesn't mean that we have to resort to irrational claims or appeals to intuition. We could, at very little personal risk, try to sit quietly and see what effect that may have on the inner monologue. Harris is pointing out that the first insight that we gain when we do this is that there really IS a running monologue. It's a very frustrating recognition, because it seems so very tedious and inescapable. But in fact it's already a sign of progress. And, if we keep on with the practice, witnessing the inner monologue but not actively indulging it, we can see it gradually becoming quieter and more sparse. This second insight takes time to develop, and it's hard to gauge progress, but at least we are responsible for running our own laboratory here. No one is feeding us data that we must accept on faith. It's pleasant to sit with a quiet mind and look at the beauty of nature, or with the same quiet equanimity look at the natural course of fortune and misfortune in those we love. It's a skill worth cultivating.
@@mr.c2485you don’t “share your meditative experience” I mean you can But, you meditate and it tunes you to acceptance of the Unconditional Love Nature and Selfhood of the Infinite/Nothing All will enjoy the melody of your life when you are tuned Christ said “you will know them by their fruit”
I’ve been an atheist since I was very young. I did a true a guided meditation session once and it was truly one of the best/ slash emotional experiences of my life.
Just keep doing the breath concentration technique and then if you keep at it sincerely, you eventually pop out of your physical body. there you go, you will have your epiphany.
Being a "meditation skeptic" is so weird. Especially for a smart guy like Alex. That's like being a "healthy food skeptic". There are so many forms of meditation. Could it be that Alex is just completely ignorant to the concept of meditation in general?
Meditation is an insanely broad action, it doesn't really have a defined definition and so it's not improbable that what one sees as meditation another doesn't.
@@Betweoxwitegan Sure, but that's kind of what I mean in a sense. There are also many forms of "exercise/working out", but to just say you're skeptical of it is a bit odd.
@@jonj1163 Exercise has more noticeable and measurable effects on human health where as meditation does not, you can do studies assessing meditations benefit on perceived wellbeing but that's circumstantial and can't be definitively measured. I think in saying one is skeptical of meditation they really mean they are skeptical as to the advertised health benefits and potential for external experiences, etc. Which I think is fair in all honesty, I also think it's important to define meditation, I am meditating if I just sit in silence for 2 minutes?
@@Betweoxwitegan Meditation has extreme health benefits for mental health and clarity. If you want a study group, look at the Zen Buddhists, for an example of many. It's quite amazing. These people can set their hand on fire and not flinch. And yes, your other point only strengthens mine "is sitting in silence for 2 min meditation?" One could say it is, and especially if you look at it that broadly it's even more absurd to be "skeptical" of meditation.
Meditation is like doing pull-ups, only instead of working your back and arm muscles, you're working your pre-frontal cortex. It takes tremendous effort to focus on conscious awareness and not let your brain pull you in the direction of random thoughts and feelings. But continuously working on it, the mental muscle that keeps conscious control of your thoughts and feelings gets stronger. After a while, stopping negative, impulsive thoughts is as easy as a pull-up master lifting a 5 lbs dumbbell.
I'm glad Alex brought up how the reports of the meditator can be like the reports of the religious experience. The point is that one doesn't necessarily need to "try it for oneself" or have the experience, to have justified doubt about the claims being made on the basis of the experience. In other words, one can accept that the experience feels like it does, but reject that the INFERENCES made from that experience are sound. Sam wants to push back on that by saying he's not making prima facie implausible metaphysical claims from religion. But Sam IS making all sorts of claims about the nature of identity and the self and free will based on the nature of meditation. And, like the guys on Decoding The Gurus have pointed out, I also find many of Sam's inferences to be quite dubious.
@@CosmicSkeptic Did that include pressing him on his inability to make an actual analogous analogy? A game, with a book of rules, is analogous to laws, not morality, for example.
I like all of this, except one thing. In the end, Harris says that free will is not a subjective experience, if we pay close enough attention. However, then he says that everything "just springs into view out of this condition that is intrinsically mysterious which you are identical to." So he says that you are identical to what every will or decision springs from. So it is you who is causing or grounding the will or decision, not something else causing you to have it. This rather plays the ball into the direction of free will or compatibilism.
My understanding of this was that every thought springs from experience, which you are identical to. But all experience is caused by past events. Therefore, anything that comes from you is caused by something other than your self. Conclusion: you cannot have free will.
I think he means that if you actually pay attention to the arising of thoughts and intentions then the illusion of a self creating them will disappear because it'll be recognized that they're arising on their own from a source that can't be observed. He says we are identical to this because we also can't be observed. He has seen this through Dzogchen practice, turning awareness onto itself.
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You’ve done it. Good god you’ve done it.
when does the podcast come on youtube?
Severe ADHD here, meditation helps develop the "focus" muscle that so many people lack. It helped me initially, until I became adept at the whole breathing thing and my brain learned to automate that process while thinking of other things, but it's a cute novel trick in the beginning, especially for ADHD, it was the first time my brain was silent ever.
@@Abzuhuzwn It's also possible that you gained more mindfulness and simply started noticing more subtle thoughts. It's common for meditators to think their mind is getting busier as they progress on the journey because metacognitive awareness increases and now you're much more aware of your inner dialogue. Whereas, before meditation we're so consumed by the constant narratives that we don't even realise they're running.
@reedwill953 I'd love to learn more ways, I just noticed that the concentrating thing helped me from feeling literally retarded all the time, but ultimately I still have ADHD haha
Sam's remarkable ability to use the precisely perfect word to elucidate the concepts he's explaining never ceases to amaze me. If there were ever a wizard of language, he's it.
I think it was Neil Degrasse Tyson who basically said that Sam is a master of the English language!
Sounded pretty basic to me but ok
I always thought Alex uses his language even better. I could be biased, but it is how it is.
@@noahfletcher3019 That's kind of the point no? Precise language does not mean complicated.
Too bad the concepts are often nonsense.
Can’t wait for full version
Sam talks slowly but says so much in every word that I have to replay it 5 times. He is unbelievably careful and clear and it’s such a blessing to hear him for free.
"Blessing?"😂
Clear thought and Sam Harris.....
Let me guess: paid review?
He says "Muslims bad"
@@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper One of the few honest statements he has ever made
The biggest benefit I've had from meditation in my day-to-day is that I'm now able to have a barrier between arising feelings and emotions and sitting in those feelings and emotions. When a feeling comes, it first has to come through me and I can choose if I want to let that feeling pass or indulge in it. Whereas before, emotions just occurred and kept me in that state of mind. When you meditate, you build that muscle in your brain.
Do you believe in freewill
This weird book puts Peterson in his place and gives the first step to satori. It is unlike anythong you have ever read and the guy who wrote it is completely unknown: ruclips.net/video/BX2QpSdJVOo/видео.html
@@kayojen8827
What is the s.i. unit "satori"
@@goyonman9655 s.i. ? what is that? satori is another name for nirvana. I just mentioned this becaseu the book goes into it a bit. It is not a book about meditation. In fact it is not a book about anything or any one thing.
Thank you, this was helpful.
Sam Harris taught me how to meditate way before the Waking Up app existed. He had a guided meditation on SoundCloud, I used to listen to it quite often and something just clicked for me. I will forever be grateful to him for that.
I also started as a meditation skeptic but it has become without doubt the most valuable tool I know of. Can't wait to see the full episode
I'd be more into it without the connotations. I do a similar thing at home when I need a break, I just call it stopping
Likewise. It's best to make a habit of daily practice first thing AM and PM before bed.
Can you describe how it benefitted you?
Tool? For what ? I see no apparent value in this exercise of the physical mind vs reality.
.
@@panampace
Damn right!! What’s the purpose, value, structure, awakening, etc. etc.
Two of my favourite thinkers speaking together, what a beautiful day
Dammit all these comments like yours make me realize he's gone full right wing grifter. Unsubbing ftom this clown.
Way more exciting than two of my favorite speakers thinking together
Yes, they are very intelligent, but yet humble, and they both have a way of articulating their thoughts concisely and effortlessly. I really enjoy listening to both of them.
@@benjierodriguez6518Sam Harris is very intelligent and articulate, but I wouldn’t say humble. He tends to shut down and dismiss opposition with an aura of overconfidence.
He has absolutely influenced me and is a great thinker, but it is important to critically look at how and what he is saying
@@benjierodriguez6518 sam harris is arrogant as heck dude
I could not be more jealous of this conversation! My two favorites together. Thank you both for all your influence.
You are one of top 5, trust me.
Appreciate that! I have actually just sent Alex a request for collaboration. He has been so influential to me that I'd love to have it come full circle. @@DavidSimic-ig9yd
Appreciate that! I actually just sent Alex a request for collaboration. He has been so influential to me that it would be great to see it come full circle.@@DavidSimic-ig9yd
You have quickly become one of my favorites. I always look forward to your content.
Thank you! RUclips is struggling with my comments, but I also tried saying thank you to David's reply also. @@Koanuk223
Close your eyes and put your attention upon your breath as it goes in and out. First focus on your abdomen as it rises and falls. Then you can move to focusing your attention on the breath going in and out of your nostrils. It matters not what you focus on. It could be any image. it could be a mantra or a candle flame. The object is only used as a method to hold your attention to. As you put your attention either on the breath, within 2 or 3 seconds you will find your thoughts come in and your mind begins to wander away from your focus of attention. As soon as you become aware that you are not focusing on the breath, you gently bring your attention back to it.
You keep doing this. Keep practicing, and one day you will find you can sit still with mind focused upon the object of your attention without your mind drifting away for about 10, 15 or 20 minutes. When you get to that stage, your mind is now completely still - having no thoughts, no images and no memories - nothing. You become "aware" of that Space or Void. You become aware of the Space between thoughts. The trick is to hold on to the Space between thoughts. You are no longer thinking.
You now have "awareness" - with no thinking. You have the awareness of the "I am" - that you exist. You now know that your awareness exists without thoughts. You know that your self is separate from thoughts.
The next stage is you turn your "awareness" upon that Space or Void. You keep holding your attention upon that Space and slowly you will find that that Space is the "I AM" - the consciousness of Cosmic Consciousness. You will find that your consciousness is connected to the "I AM".
What is happening here is your consciousness is turning in upon itself - upon consciousness itself.
Where you direct your thoughts, is where your energy and consciousness goes. Before you took up meditation, your consciousness was pulled outwards through the 5 senses to the outer world of matter. Your thoughts pulled you into the world of matter. Hence, that is the reality that you see and believe in.
Scientists use their consciousness to measure and observe the outward manifestations of matter - in the world of form. And what is form? Form is a manifestation from energy grouped into electrons, atoms and molecules. Science now knows that all seemingly physical objects are not physical at all but ultimately come from energy. In other words, reality has no form but is made up from a sea of energy. And this sea of energy is consciousness. You have consciousness. And your consciousness springs from the Source of the greater Consciousness.
Scientists come to the false conclusion there is no Intelligence or God because they are using consciousness through the five senses of sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. The five senses of humans are perceived through the use of sensory organs. They will never get to the Truth and to Ultimate Reality of existence if they employ their consciousness through the false illusion of the five senses.
In order to know the Supreme Intelligence and Creation behind all that is, in order to know Truth and Reality, you have to turn your awareness inwards to your inner consciousness and not through the five senses. Meditation is the key and the science to knowing the Ultimate Reality. In meditation you are now using consciousness to focus in upon Consciousness itself! That is the Secret Path that sages in the past have kept to a select few. But now meditation is known world-wide and accepted.
Now science is recognizing, through quantum physics, that form is an illusion and that energy and consciousness is the reality. And in order to become aware of that energy and consciousness one has to direct one's consciousness and awareness away from the illusion of the five senses and turn one's energy and focus within oneself upon consciousness itself - stilling your mind and focusing in upon that Silence and Void.
The more you are able to reside your awareness upon this Silence or Void, you will slowly begin to feel stirrings of peace and contentment. Later this feeling of peace will turn into ineffable joy. And you will have no doubt that you are in the Presence of All That Is. You are in the Presence of Mind behind all individual minds. You are in the Presence of Consciousness that is behind all separate individual consciousness. You are making contact with Source or in religious terms, God.
The fundamental Truth that material scientists are not aware of, is that the Universe is Mind. Everything is a sea of Mind - a sea of Consciousness. Ultimately nothing is physical.
Having reached this "awareness" of the Space, it will create a vacuum. And one day that vacuum will be filled by the Presence of God or Infinite Intelligence or whatever name you call it. When that happens, you have made contact with Source.
From that moment on, your Path in life will become smoother. In fact, even before you make contact with Source, the closer you move towards this Source through meditations, the more you find your ego stands aside and allows the Higher Power to come into operation. Providential help and extraordinary guidance may begin to appear of their own accord. Without lifting a foot or moving a finger, the true needs of a man who has begun to come into communion with his spiritual Source may be supplied at his very doorstep and always at the psychological moments of necessity. This applies to his spiritual and mental needs no less than to material needs.
👍
So true.
Bro who are you? Please make videos on this I read all this stuff in Hinduism as Purush + Prakriti..... advait gyan
❤
Absolutely beautiful and I’m gona do exactly this
Great to see Alex and Ben Stiller talking about meditation.
Ben's father acted on a show that Sam's mom wrote a lil bit on back in the day. In my meme voice "You don't find that suspicious?" 😂
Zen Stiller 😎
@@ip-sumVery underrated comment 😂😂😂😂
ARE YOU SERIOUS THIS FINALLY HAPPENED ALLEEEXXX!!!!?
Noice Woyk!!!
This is a big deal
One of the greatest collabs on RUclips ever. I mean it
@@Dan-id9qs ikr!!!!
It didn’t happen, it’s all an illusion 😉
Having Sam Harris on the podcast is a longtime coming
No matter who interviews Sam, he is always the deepest - no one else in front of him comprehends just how deep and meaningful he goes.
Meditation has completely changed me. I almost feel like the person I “thought” I was is dead or doesn’t exist anymore or that I can’t really remember who that character was. I had chronic anxiety attacks which I know longer have. I rarely worry at all. The downside for me is that I feel bored more now. I’m just going through the boredom without judging it with hopes it’ll pass. Good luck to anyone starting out meditating and stick with it.
Pay attention to where the boredom arises from. I also suffered regularly from anxiety attacks and and since I started meditating about 2 years ago, I have had none. It's truly amazing and I'm glad someone else out there is finding success as well! I was feeling bored for a bit as well but if you pay attention to the boredom in a similar way to how you may watch your thoughts or your breath (depending on your practice) you will see the boredom arises in much the same way the anxiety arises, from nothing and then into thoughts in your head. Whether it be thoughts of anxiety or boredom flowing down the river of awareness, remember you are the river and theres no need to cling to either thought. Good luck in your practice!
@@economicus499 Thank you! Reading this had a calming effect to me. I was walking my dogs the other day and thought to myself that the trees I was looking at are no different than my thoughts coming and going. Everything is coming and going in my awareness. It’s pretty damn awesome when I have those experiences. I’ll definitely watch my boredom like everything else. Thanks again!
Question. Do your days feel shorter or longer after having done this? I will meditate if it makes me perceive time as slower. I want to live a nice, long life.
@@ShaShaSha534 It feels long like it never ends. Continuous never ending time. I feel like I’ve lost track of time or no time exists. Hard to explain. It’s like life is just happening and I’m here watching it
@@Justfor2day10 That sounds wonderful and I have an idea of what you're talking about. Why should we stress out about everything when we're here? We should just be here.
I don't agree with Sam on everything, but as someone who suffers from depression and anxiety, his app has helped me tremendously.
Almost tempted to say that I can't believe this moment ever came, but I do.
Alex made it happen. I'm actually proud of him. This is great!
You’re proud that he had a conversation about meditation??? Like you’ve been waiting forever for this particular moment??
He’s great, but these comments are so odd.
@@VA-gu1jqwell theres a fool born every minute
@@VA-gu1jq I also don't get it. I mean I do but I don't. Yes Alex has gained so many viewers and subscribers by now that he's worth Sam's time. I guess you could be proud of him if you are seriously invested in his success. Not sure why you would be though. I mean, Alex is definitely an interesting bloke but this is level of personal investment with someone I don't actually know is extremely rare for me, if existent at all. So in that sense I don't get it.
@@jozefwoo8079 I don't think it's unusual to be proud of someone for expanding their views. Even if you don't know them at all. What makes this different is a lot of people in this community have seen Alex slowly mold into who he is today based on people like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris was involved in a lot of the same conversations at the time. It's a mix of being proud of Alex's character development and excitement that we're coming full circle being able to finally converse with Sam.
@@SneakyLeifyes I get that, but I still don't share those feelings generally. I can be excited if my favorite sports person is winning but I wouldn't call that proud. So in that sense I don't get it. People are different. That doesn't mean that my way of experiencing this, is better. It's just odd to feel proud in this case (for me). It sounds a bit like he sees Alex as *his* little boy who has finally achieved something meaningful.
I was skeptical of meditation until I started meditating. Thankfully I was willing to put aside my own beliefs and ideas about what meditation is and what it could do for me. I have been meditationg now every day for 26 years.
And yet, delusion persists.
@@haraldtheyounger5504 clearly you've never tried it. its no delusional to want to calm down your body and relax. its not delusional to take a look in the mirror which is what meditation is. it will help you gain awareness of all of your faults so you can change all of the bad parts of yourself. clearly you need to try it. mocking someone because they do meditation. clearly you have some issues to work on if you have the balls to face your own demons that is... which is exactly what meditation will do.
yeah exactly! its helped me a great deal. before meditation I was 440lbs and I was always so lazy. I ate junk foods everyday. I was very unhappy. Then I started doing meditation and it changed my life. I lost 200lbs in 2 years, starting eating healthy, got off the psych drugs, got off of all medications honestly, and got myself out of poverty to and into riches. It really did change my life 100%! Its a great self healing tool. Thank god!
@@fatherdamien69 Awareness is, meditation is mental play. Huge difference.
In Zen Bhuddism we consider the mind a sixth sensory organ (the usual 5 plus the mind). It’s simply an organ that secretes thoughts - the problem is as Sam says, that we attach to these thoughts and we ascribe them as “ours.” We are not our thoughts - it’s easy to prove this as you don’t cease to exist when you manage to quell your thoughts.
Yeah it’s called Atman….👀
Sam explains the basics well and thoroughly. Alex honestly expresses a very common attitude - use an ignorant belief rather than experience to motivate action. It does take time to come into a steady meditative practice, and it's not for everybody.
It's often suffering that lead people to meditation, as well as an honesty to acknowledge our own stupidity.
I hope you drop full podcast here Alex. If not it’s also okay, I hope you do. Thanks for this interview.
FINALLY!! An Alex and Sam conversation, I know it will be great!
This is single-handedly the best explanation of meditation that I have yet to come across. You're not communing with the divine, you're simply controlling your attention and being the ever present observer. I can't wait to see the full episode, this is sure to be a great conversation
Thats not what meditation is. He's getting it wrong. The thing about thought being pathology is incorrect.
@@Darkloid21 thoughts happen regardless if we want them to or not. They're an ever present part of the human experience. Meditation stops the incessant need to think, and identify with our thoughts. Meditation allows is to be still when we don't have to think (e.g. when were trying to get to sleep etc.) Incessant thought is a disease and pathological. The most unhappy I've ever been has been when my thoughts were in control of me
@@DamienChristopher2001 Then you don't know meditation then.
Incessant thought isn't a disease, it's the reason we do anything. When you silence that you silence life. I know because I reached the endpoint to meditation. It's not peace or pain, it's just blank.
It's also ironic you mention sleep because meditation is about avoiding falling asleep.
WOOHOO, been waiting for this conversation for so long! Hoping it comes out soon!
I’ve never seen this podcast before, I’m seeing this because I’m a fan of Sam Harris. Do you meditate?
@@joeniemchak haha bro, what are the odds. I actually saw your channel like a year ago or so with Frank yang. I remember thinking to myself, this guy has reached peace. Yeah I i've been practicing for like 2 years. Haven't gotten any crazy results, more just being able to acknowledge ego more, enjoy the present, and overcome some addictions. How have you been tho?
Sam is my absolute favourite!! Alex please get into meditation !! we'd love to hear your experience from the very basics
Excellent segment from Sam, great clip - thanks!
Oooooooh wow! Can't wait for the whole conversation!
I was, like Alex, skeptical of meditation for a while. It felt a little "woo-woo" to me and I didn't really get it. Then i took a class on the history and philosophy of meditation going through various eastern traditions and I've been meditating for 20 minutes daily for 2 months and it's been a tremendous benefit in my life.
Love this. It actually gave me an idea for how meditation is a distinct experience from just sitting with your thoughts. (I did already have some ideas of what mindfulness meditation in particular is though.)
I’ve been watching your channel for the last 6 years (my god it doesn’t feel like that long at all), and I’m so excited you’re finally having this convo. I’ve been a subscriber almost since the beginning, and I’m so proud of what you’re doing today - not that that means anything from a random subscriber lol. But still congrats on the growth and I look forward to the full interview!!!
I'm so hyped for this
One way to know you've finally made it as a podcaster: crushing that first one-on-one interview with Ben Stiller! Well done Alex!
I literally can’t look at Harris without thinking about that lol
Ben indeed is a good actor. Acting out a neuroscientist philosopher is something!!
Ben's father acted on a show that Sam's mom wrote a lil bit on back in the day. In my meme voice "You don't find that suspicious?" 😂
Sam got me into a meditation practice a number of years ago. I’ve done a few 1-2 week long silent meditation retreats, and it’s been one of the richer aspects of my life.
Without needing to buy into the more preposterous supernatural elements of Buddhism and the surrounding culture, meditation can provide deep experiential insights into truths of the nature and structure of our consciousness.
I’d definitely encourage people to try Sam’s short meditation on RUclips for a few days running and see if you don’t find it a beneficial and pleasant experience.
I call bullsh*t. You know less now than you did before.
@@mr.c2485 Dude, you are such a negative Nancy. We get it, you hate meditation and think it is stupid. But it can definitely be beneficial, if for no other reason than it helps you notice and gain a bit more control over the countless errant thoughts that emerge on a daily basis. Is it so hard to see how that can be beneficial? If I can catch myself when some pointless thought pops into my head and save myself 20 wasted minutes pondering something that will serve no purpose, that sounds pretty beneficial. Plus, I think it's better to live in and appreciate the present moment than it is to be in your head ruminating about the past or stressing about the future.
@@zeusthecat6295 I could benefit from this very much right now. My mind has been an endless soup of tangled thoughts that take me for a ride against my will. I think taking control of that is exactly what I need
Meditation is like prayer’s squishy emasculated brother.
@@mr.c2485 You're the very type of person/character who would benefit most from mastering meditation. You don't know, what you don't know! But we who have persevered with learning meditation know.
focus you life down to this moment and your present surroundings and not get caught up and swept away by all the negative anxiety arousing mental projections, most of which never come to pass.
Oh gosh Alex is killing it with these guests. Its such a thrill going through your channel and recent uploads
"The curious thing about breath is that it can be looked at both as a voluntary and an involuntary action. You can feel on the one hand I am doing it, and on the other hand, it is happening to me. And that is why breathing is the most important part of meditation: because it is going to show you, as you become aware of your breath, that the hard and fast division that we make between what we do on the one hand, and what happens to us on the other, is arbitrary" -- Alan Watts
Let’s goo I can’t believe this finally happened, soo looking forward to it!
Been waiting for this one, been waiting a long time
Alan Wallace wrote a book called the attention revolution. One of the best books that i have ever read.
Can’t wait for the full conversation! I’ve followed you for a long time and thought this would be a great conversation
This is a very good explanation of mindfulness meditation.
Best collab ever, so excited
Happy Birthday Alex!!!
Superb convo guys. Very nice!
This video is actually very needed. This makes meditation sound honest, relatable, and possible
If meditation hasn't worked for you so far because you cant seem to sustain attention on your breath or something similar please remember such focus aspects are not necessary. Meditation's 'breakthrough' moment is when your mind goes from being in a state similar to riding a motorcycle to sitting in a bus. From excessive active participation with what you see, hear feel etc to passive and relaxed observation of whats passing by. No formula exists for getting from one state to the other. Gentle regular practice of physical stillness.
I never really understood the point of meditation, but after watching this video, I'm remember that when I was a kid I used to suddenly and without obvious reason find myself in a state where I felt as though I was just observing myself doing things in the world. It was a weird feeling that I had a very difficult time articulating to adults (still do). It would last sometimes for several minutes or maybe a few hours, and it would happen fairly often -- every few days or so. But I can't remember the last time I felt like that. Is this what the state you speak of?
I disagree, there absolutely are formulas to achieve this, tho I accept that I cannot guarentee that one specific technique will work 100% for you, that's what charlatans do.
There are 100s of types of meditation techniques, do the one that works best for you and gets you in that state of mind. Sound based stuff generally works better on me than breathing or mindfulness stuff (By better, I mean I can reach that state more quickly)
Alex, you should talk to Dr.K(Alok Kanojia) about meditation. He's a great psychiatrist and very insightful to listen to. Even though he's religious, I find him much more understanding of the current generation's(my) problems than any atheist I listen to.
Finally, Sam Harris is on the podcast. Hope they discuss about morality in the full episode , very keen to see how Harris responds to Alex' criticisms
Same. I have been waiting for that since forever.
they do.
Beyond helpful and I will be listening to this repeatedly
Energy goes where attention flows
Congrats on climbing up in the world man!
FINALLY. I have been waiting for this one.
I had no idea there was such an overlap of people who appreciate both Alex and Sam. I thought I was the only one. Nice to see I was wrong! 🤣
I know right!!
One of us! One of us!
I dont think it would be a stretch to say these are the only two human beings I put into the same category.
@@Rave.-absolutely man. I can't think of a third who I admire as much in the exact same way
Anyone that likes these two should have a listen to Destiny as well. He’s a bit more edgey, but also incredibly interesting to listen to.
Alex + Sam are my favourites, but destiny is in the same area.
Amazing to have been apart of this journey. I remember your debates with rationality rules and Oakes so many years ago on free will and how essential Sam Harris was to the topic.
Love that he directly addresses Chopera’s attempt to graft metaphysics around meditation. Such a clear communicator.
I’ve been a serious meditator for about 25 years (Soto Zen Buddhism is my home lineage, but have studied under teachers in various traditions). I always say: meditation is like any bodily discipline (sport, dance, yoga, martial arts), except that instead of training the body, it is for training your attention. There are countless techniques and methods, but ultimately you are just training your attention to not wander, as Sam articulates well. And as he points out, that’s why so many people hate it. Besides it being a difficult and boring task, many people are very disconcerted by the profound implications of the fact that no matter how hard we try, we cannot introspectively perceive where our thoughts come from.
have you had a spiritual awakening yet ?
I've tried meditating and it was tough to have that depth of self-perception and awareness, and just sit with it. It was an uncomfortable place to be for me, and I've never tried going back to it.
@@TH-nx9vf “Spiritual awakening” is a term that is both vague and loaded. I’ve had many experiences, on the cushion and off, that I don’t think I would have had without training my attention through meditation. I’ll leave it at that. I’m not a spiritual person, I’m profoundly skeptical when it comes to metaphysics and cosmology, but for me the benefits of well-trained attention are enough.
@@TH-nx9vf….meditation will hopefully save you from what people these days refer to as so-called ‘spiritual awakening’. Like so many terms these days it’s become largely meaningless through its overuse.
@@boochi7087 The modern world is designed to keep your head spinning. One trick that’s as ancient as meditation traditions themselves, is to pick an object of focus that is pleasant, like a pleasant sensation or image. The pleasure associated with the object can often help keep the attention focused, and make the effort seem less drudgerous.
Oh my gosh. Couldn’t be more excited about this.
Hopefully you can get motivated with other things
@@dr.tonielffaucet5988 not my choice
So, you have a boner for mysticism?
Like going to the gym and still not getting laid anyway. @@dr.tonielffaucet5988
You've got me. Take my Patreon money this month. I can't afford it every month, though. But Sam Harris is a rare treat, and I want it now :-)
That's it. This is exactly what I wrote on your channel way before that you have to experiment with meditation.
For an intelligent person like you, this is going to be so exciting.
I was obsessed with western philosophy and linear logic until I started meditating. And started to lucid dreams and do OBEs at will and everything then changed. The crox of meditation is "non judgemental observation".
It's lovely to see you grow.
Would have loved to have this conversation with you. ❤
Sam did a relatively good job explaining meditation,
But I'd say it's not about "paying close attention to the thoughts" that will get you to experience it deeply but actually " letting go" and the principle of non judgemental observation....
❤
That’s one of the best explanations of what’s meditation I’ve heard
“Just push really hard, and eventually you’ll start feelin it”
Alex, I met you in Piccadilly Circus a few weeks back and have been eagerly awaiting this since! Fantastic stuff 👏👏
This is a great advertisement for mindfulness/meditation. Exceptional speakers, both of you, but Sam Harris' explanations are the most crystal clear I've ever heard.
And his ideas lead to nowhere…
I AM REALLY HAPPY THIS COLLABORATION HAS FINALLY ARRIVED ♥️
If you're at all interested in philosophy of mind or learning what meditation is, I highly recommend doing a 10-day Vipassana course if you can afford the time to do it. I'd done month-long stretches of daily meditation sessions and saw some results... but the 10-day course was *by far* the hardest thing I've ever gone through in my life, and I had some pretty wild experiences and insights into the way my mind works. I recommend one that's "as taught by S. N. Goenka" since there's very little metaphysical claims involved in the teaching, and the little that there is can simply be disregarded without taking away from the whole experience.
Omg this is kind of a full circle moment since i came across Alex because of his critique of Sam Harris.
He doesnt seem very bright if he's critiquing something he has never done before lmao
This is my most anticipated podcast episode ever. I can't wait to see the full length interview!
Why is only 1 of Sam's eyebrows raised all the time
Yooooo finally! I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR YOU TO DO A PODCAST WITH SAM HARRIS 😁😁😁
Never has anyone described meditation this precisely, incredible segment
Alex needs to explore Eastern spiritualites a bit more. Sam Harris is definitely a gateway.
I recommend not only studying of the Buddhist tradition, but of Psychoanalysis as well!
(Lacan in particular)
@@animefurry3508 Not just the Buddhist tradition. Sanatana Dharma is a mother of a large chunk of Eastern traditions. I hope Alex looks into Advaita Vedanta!
Gateway to woo-woo?
Gateway drug
No such thing as a spirit without demonstrable evidence. It’s called mysticism…
I've just been listening to Making Sense with Sam Harris today, so this is perfect timing haha
Now I really want Alex to talk to Dr K too haha
now that would be an awesome conversation! i love dr k
Dr K?
@@jozefwoo8079 yep
I would listen to Alex and Dr. K talk for 10 hours
@@jozefwoo8079 AKA HealthyGamerGG, go look him up he's been a great help to twitch and the online gaming community.
Wow that must feel like such an accomplishment when someone with such an influence on your life, takes the time to sit down with you. Much love Alex you're the best❤
Concise summary of meditiation. Well done Sam Harris.
Meditation is a practice of calming down and clearing thoughts. It isn't some supernatural thing. It's about putting yourself into the moment.
Exactly. Just setting aside from time to just be.
The thig with You athiests is that You blame religion even for world hunger but take credit for every othe good thing, whether You liked it or not, spirituality cam with religion, it's a part and parcel of it, ya'll made fun of religious people, then realized the alarming suicide rates then decided that hey why not take th spirituality part and act that we came up with it, more entitled than a BTS fan base.
@@ReemMutasim-pr6rp Narrow sighted generalizations about 700 million people? Yeah, your arrogance is glaring.
@@badza47 While I agree I should've worded it better, what I was insinuating is that whenever an athiest talks spirituality, they make it sound as if it's something they came up with and not necessarily tied to religion. Thank You for pointin that out.
Meditation is not the best word, in India and Tibet is best described as " cultivation" or "familiarization" because you can use your mind to cultivate a virtue or mental state or to know your experience,. Obviously there are many techniques for different proposites under the umbrella of meditation, there is concentration, analyses, mere awareness, resting awareness, self inquire and the union of tranquility and insight as in Tibetan Buddhism or just witnessing like Mahamudra or Dzogchen.
Perhaps in some backwater parts of the world an ape sitting in silence is considered to be profound, but not in the West.
I love how sam Harris digs at other people who have large amounts of experience in meditation and then reels of his experience in suggestive way as to say this is the way to look at it while disregarding others experiences. Quite an oxymoronic way to calculate experiences when all are as valid. My own experience I see places as clear as I see with my own eyes in my mind. Now you can poo poo it but because you haven’t experienced it, does that really mean it can’t be done. How you view the possibility is the key to you unlocking the technique, you think it’s hard to do, then it will be hard, if you feel it’s impossible then it won’t ever happen. Meditation is a window into your belief system and the basis of what you believe deep within your subconscious will arise. Now remember how you dream and that you see in your dream,same mechanism. For those who didn’t think it was possible to see places in your mind and I gave you an example of the mechanism within dreams see how your belief system was blocking you from thinking it can be done. All things are possible, miracle is just a word telling you that it can’t be done. You decide the definition always
Yes! I would add that we already have a sense that thinking occurs independently from our will: examples include having a song stuck in our heads which we feel like is not « us » because we will say i have this song stuck in my head or my mind can’t stop thinking about __
It’s interesting to see how we can see some thoughts as just passing by, while others come with a belief that we are the thinker. Essentially as sam harris says you come to a point where there is no difference between a thought passing through consciousness and a car passing down the road. They both happen completely outside of anyone’s choice. They are just happening. The thought of me or being a self is no exception. It’s just that we are really identified with it.
This idea of meditation and mindfulness as explained by Sam has radically changed my life. I am no longer identified by my thoughts and I can recognize them for what they are and proceed accordingly.
This is a huuuggee secret to some inner peace
The camera quality is so good!
The light looks a bit too bright for Sam.
I can see the exact shade of lipstick & foundation he’s wearing!
OMG DREAMS COME TRUE
No one would say they're a piano skeptic if they have never tried to learn piano. Meditation is something you can get better at with practice. You can find out for yourself what Sam is saying
Learning to play the piano leads to a pleasing sound for all to enjoy and appreciate. Not so with meditation. I can enjoy one’s music even if they’re a total asshole. Sharing your meditative experience doesn’t elieviate the asshole problem.
@@mr.c2485 I imagine if someone takes the time to meditate properly they'd probably stop being an asshole.
@@Cheximuslololllllllllll
Your comment evokes something that Harris wrote about in "Waking Up." He pointed out that it's relatively easy to determine whether someone is a golf pro. If they can reliably put the little white ball into the hole. And if you can't, then there is some ground for being interested in what they have to say.
But (Harris goes on) it's not so clear when it comes to spiritual attainment. And this may be the same difference that you're calling out between piano playing and meditation.
At least with the piano you can hear something. But successful mindfulness doesn't produce a phenomenon in the usual active sense. It produces a CESSATION of an inner monologue that we don't usually notice or regard as important to notice anyway. How do we begin to evaluate the cessation of a process when the act of evaluation itself runs in that process?
So it's altogether a bit tricky to talk about. But that doesn't mean that we have to resort to irrational claims or appeals to intuition. We could, at very little personal risk, try to sit quietly and see what effect that may have on the inner monologue.
Harris is pointing out that the first insight that we gain when we do this is that there really IS a running monologue. It's a very frustrating recognition, because it seems so very tedious and inescapable. But in fact it's already a sign of progress.
And, if we keep on with the practice, witnessing the inner monologue but not actively indulging it, we can see it gradually becoming quieter and more sparse. This second insight takes time to develop, and it's hard to gauge progress, but at least we are responsible for running our own laboratory here. No one is feeding us data that we must accept on faith. It's pleasant to sit with a quiet mind and look at the beauty of nature, or with the same quiet equanimity look at the natural course of fortune and misfortune in those we love. It's a skill worth cultivating.
@@mr.c2485you don’t “share your meditative experience”
I mean you can
But, you meditate and it tunes you to acceptance of the Unconditional Love Nature and Selfhood of the Infinite/Nothing
All will enjoy the melody of your life when you are tuned
Christ said “you will know them by their fruit”
I’ve been an atheist since I was very young. I did a true a guided meditation session once and it was truly one of the best/ slash emotional experiences of my life.
Just keep doing the breath concentration technique and then if you keep at it sincerely, you eventually pop out of your physical body. there you go, you will have your epiphany.
'I don't believe in meditation, although I've never tried it...' Lol
Alex is meeting the neo atheist heroes one by one. Daniel Dennet's next.
We just have ressurect Hitchens and we're done!
No where near Hitchens
@@boredphilosopher4254why do they hate eachother?
I think Lawrence Krauss should have been the fourth horseman.
@@waffle.23 Because Daniel hates it when anyone tries to take his Compatibilism safety blanket away.
Christ himself is an “atheist”
Christ is a hero of atheism
But I never hear atheists admire Christ in the way you’d might Sam or Hitchens
I’ve been a fan of Sam’s since 2010-ish and I still appreciate how he can make points like this.
How is Alex dropping this without a warning? I've been waiting for this for years! 🎉
Sam Harris’ one eyebrow is messing with me😂
Thank you, now I cannot unsee it 😊
Same here 😆
The fact you only see one eyebrow is messing with me. 😊
Now just needs little finger to corner of mouth
That eyebrow is the source of Sam's power.
Being a "meditation skeptic" is so weird. Especially for a smart guy like Alex. That's like being a "healthy food skeptic". There are so many forms of meditation. Could it be that Alex is just completely ignorant to the concept of meditation in general?
Meditation is an insanely broad action, it doesn't really have a defined definition and so it's not improbable that what one sees as meditation another doesn't.
A bit off point, but you can be a healthy food skeptic, Kane B had quite an interesting video on "dietary nihilism"
@@Betweoxwitegan Sure, but that's kind of what I mean in a sense. There are also many forms of "exercise/working out", but to just say you're skeptical of it is a bit odd.
@@jonj1163 Exercise has more noticeable and measurable effects on human health where as meditation does not, you can do studies assessing meditations benefit on perceived wellbeing but that's circumstantial and can't be definitively measured. I think in saying one is skeptical of meditation they really mean they are skeptical as to the advertised health benefits and potential for external experiences, etc. Which I think is fair in all honesty, I also think it's important to define meditation, I am meditating if I just sit in silence for 2 minutes?
@@Betweoxwitegan Meditation has extreme health benefits for mental health and clarity. If you want a study group, look at the Zen Buddhists, for an example of many. It's quite amazing. These people can set their hand on fire and not flinch. And yes, your other point only strengthens mine "is sitting in silence for 2 min meditation?" One could say it is, and especially if you look at it that broadly it's even more absurd to be "skeptical" of meditation.
This better be a short 4hrs+ conversation Alex..
I fucking hope so
It’s 3hrs+
Meditation is like doing pull-ups, only instead of working your back and arm muscles, you're working your pre-frontal cortex. It takes tremendous effort to focus on conscious awareness and not let your brain pull you in the direction of random thoughts and feelings. But continuously working on it, the mental muscle that keeps conscious control of your thoughts and feelings gets stronger. After a while, stopping negative, impulsive thoughts is as easy as a pull-up master lifting a 5 lbs dumbbell.
This is the best guide to meditation I’ve ever heard
I'm glad Alex brought up how the reports of the meditator can be like the reports of the religious experience. The point is that one doesn't necessarily need to "try it for oneself" or have the experience, to have justified doubt about the claims being made on the basis of the experience. In other words, one can accept that the experience feels like it does, but reject that the INFERENCES made from that experience are sound. Sam wants to push back on that by saying he's not making prima facie implausible metaphysical claims from religion. But Sam IS making all sorts of claims about the nature of identity and the self and free will based on the nature of meditation. And, like the guys on Decoding The Gurus have pointed out, I also find many of Sam's inferences to be quite dubious.
Did you press him on his moral landscape!??
I hope so. That's a pile of trash.
A little bit. Only for the first two hours of the episode.
@@CosmicSkeptic hahah amazing!!! It finally happened! You're actually the GOAT
@@CosmicSkeptic Did that include pressing him on his inability to make an actual analogous analogy? A game, with a book of rules, is analogous to laws, not morality, for example.
Next stop: Jordan Peterson's faux Christianity!
I like all of this, except one thing. In the end, Harris says that free will is not a subjective experience, if we pay close enough attention. However, then he says that everything "just springs into view out of this condition that is intrinsically mysterious which you are identical to." So he says that you are identical to what every will or decision springs from. So it is you who is causing or grounding the will or decision, not something else causing you to have it. This rather plays the ball into the direction of free will or compatibilism.
My understanding of this was that every thought springs from experience, which you are identical to. But all experience is caused by past events. Therefore, anything that comes from you is caused by something other than your self.
Conclusion: you cannot have free will.
@@omsiewomsie did he mention past events though?
@@KirurUwU no, but it is just a fact that experiences are caused by past events. They aren’t caused by anything else.
No, everything is appearing on its own and you're just witnessing it.
I think he means that if you actually pay attention to the arising of thoughts and intentions then the illusion of a self creating them will disappear because it'll be recognized that they're arising on their own from a source that can't be observed. He says we are identical to this because we also can't be observed. He has seen this through Dzogchen practice, turning awareness onto itself.
Sam Harris is by far the most articulate person on planet earth. The man is truly amazing at explaining complicated topics.
Listen to the hole episod. Wonderful conversation with two great minds 😊
lmao sam got deep into the well-being grift.
What are you trying to say?