Explaination of How to Pump Down an Air Conditioner including Proper Guidelines!
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- This is how to pump down refrigerant into an outdoor condenser unit. This would be done in the event you needed to replace something like the TXV or evaporator coil and sometimes when you replace a condenser. The alternative when replacing the condenser is to just recover the refrigerant into the recovery bottle right at that time before replacing instead of recovering out of the condenser later. Supervision is needed by a licensed HVACR Tech while performing tasks as Experience and Apprenticeship garners Wisdom and Safety.
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this video helped me get a 50 cent in hour increase
Thats great, moving in the right direction! Thanks for letting me know!
TruthTeller410 more Ramen noodles
How much are you at now?
thank you for sharing this video....it's add on my small knowledge in AC...
Thanks Vasil!
Love your videos, I have learned so much and I thank you for that. My question to you is should I jump out the low pressure switch before doing the pump down so that my unit does not shut down during pump down? I noticed you did not have to jump out anything before doing this pump down and now I’m just a little bit confused.
Also just purchased your hard copy book and I can’t put it down, I love it!!
I watch these videos before each season begins to refresh they are very helpful after a winter of heating stuff. thx for posting
Thanks Grumpy!
Thank you for sharing this video bro thumbs up
Thanks for the visit
Love the videos, bought the book, you have made me better at my job, thanks.
A question, do you have a video for doing a pump-down on mini-splits?
I am often asked to move a mini-split aircon here in Tokyo, I would like to up my game.
The way most guys do it is run the aircon on full cold for 10 min, then close the liquid line and wait another 10 min.
I'm concerned that this is running the compressor too long with the liquid line closed, and it could harm the compressor.
The mini-splits, as you know, only have only one service port on the vapor line.
Is it possible to just use the blue gauge on my set to pump down the mini-split?
Thanks in advance and a Happy New Year to you!
Cheers
Good Day Master!!i have a couple of questions!!when u do a pump down is it safe to go below zero?or which compressor would be safe a scroll or hermetic?and why after a pump down some people say to put nitrogen (abd release) if your gonna work on the line set?thank you sir!!i enjoy all your videos!!!
If after closing liquid line for suction collection of gas, then you decided to unrelease liquid gas back for normal operation , how long would it take for system to balance so that it will work normally. Is there an estimated time to wait?
Waiting a bit longer deeper into vacuum would recover more of the gas back to outdoor unit even if increasing the risk on the compressor, right?
This one is precise
Thanks!
What if the system is overcharged can it hurt the compressor by pump all the refrigerant into the compressor or condensing coil?
turning a fan on at ah helps with a pump down, what do you think about pumping down with a scroll comp. there are mix thoughts about it?
Great thoughts, anything to heat up the freezing lines and evap coil would help. I mean we still do the pump down with scrolls but if you are concerned you could always shut the valves and recover. The thing is EPA dictates that hfc's like R410A have to be pumped down to 10in hg when less than 200lbs total and hold it so actually that means maybe 12-15inch hg with a rise to 10 inch hg. I agree that any pump down is not a good thing at all for compressors especially scrolls and I run into systems where a 5 year old scroll compressor will go out on overload before the vapor line is even down to 25psig. I just stop and recover. Usually you are going to need to recover anyway if you are working with a system that has a leak in the evap because you don't want to suck any air into the line and ruin all of the refrigerant. For the best result with R-410A and scrolls, shutting the valves and the recovery process is best because of the price of R-410A, any possible fractionation even if little, and compressor life. Once again it's about preference and your own experience. Thanks for the comment!
So I have a question . I went to pump down a 3 ton r22 scroll compressor.
When my gauge got to about 45 psi
The compressor stated to hiss . Like it was bleeding air . And wouldn’t pump
Passed that. Is at a sign of a bad valve
In the compressor . And thank you for the info the other day about the ecm motor
It was the module .
That is the pressure relief valve inside the compressor. That just means it is weak and can't do a pump down. Fairly common but will still work. Just shut the valves and recover the rest. It can still be used unless that was the original problem at normal operating pressures, thanks
Say you did a pump down, and recovered the rest of the refrigerant from the lines and evap; and opened the unit to the atmosphere. Are you able to remove the service shrader valves without letting refrigerant out from the condenser? Thanks
Yes the Schrader valves can be removed if the service valves are front seated all the way down. Thanks for the question!
+acservicetech Thanks for the quick reply. Keep up the awesome vids.
At the end, that pressure reading looked very low. (About 6 PSI)
It seems like the internal volume of the line-set and indoor coil would need to be pretty large for any substantial amount of refrigerant to vaporize and create only 6 PSI..
So, how much refrigerant did you recover?
I believe it was just a few 4-5 ounces but you need to follow the epa guidelines without doing damage to the compressor that you are planning to reuse. If I was just doing a changeout I will always just use a self contained recovery unit because at some point I would have to anyway and there is always something to do at the jobsite during that 20-30 minutes. This unit in the video is just a training unit by the way. Thanks for the questions!
Hopefully you can answer this question. I know of a house that getting ready to be torn down. There is a brand new central ac unit that the owner who sold the house told me I could have since it's just going to be demolished. Problem is, there is no power to the house anymore. How do I get the refrigerant out without being able to turn the unit on? I hate to see it get smashed. Thanks!
I would shut the service valves on the outdoor unit, run a power cord to a generator for 120v and hook up my recovery machine to recover the refrigerant into a recovery bottle. Make sure you are EPA 608 certified before handling refrigerants, thanks
Pump down using compressor is a NO NO NO for newer condenser unit. I just worked installing brand new Goodman 3 tons unit. Manufactures clearly stated in manual and when i called about other issue was told they will not honor the warranty if they determine it was damaged through pump down.
Heck if you are serious working on AC you already have invested in a tank and a recovery machine to do the removal of refrigerant. I just close down the condenser and suck out the refrigerant from line and air handler. Not taking long at all. It happened i had to fix two evap. coils issue. I don't do AC repair for a living. I do all my own service and install because i got ripped off by f. repair people so i got mad and took matter in my own hand. I will never need one until the day i die now that i know how to do it all from A to Z. Save a ton of money living in FL with AC is a must!!!!
I bought used tools online and local pawn shop. Worked fine for me. NO need for brand new expensive not needed tools.
Do we need to purge the air before doing pump down? Could you make a clip that shows step by step doing pump down.
Yes they do need to get purged. Check out a video "acservicetech connect check charge disconnect procedure" thanks!
If you changed out or just cracked the fitting to see the piston would you have to pull vacuum?
You would not be able to see it and refrigerant would come out so make sure you don't do that. You could pump down the unit to bellow 0psig and then check the piston. You would then need to vacuum before releasing refrigerant back in, thanks
Sir question. You start closing the line pipe ang which one higt pressure the small one?
Please don’t try to work on an a/c unit.
How does one pump down a multi split unit? For all indoor units at once or one after the other? Thanks!
If the unit make allows pump down then yes it would be done with all indoor units running. Make sure to look up model number manual to verify that its ok first, thanks
I have to move my condenser unit. Once the pump down is complete. It is now okay to cut the line set and extent the line set to the new location ?
Great Question! If the system is R-22 and by EPA regulations is less than 200 lbs, then you can pump down or recover to 0 psig and hold. If it stays at 0 psig or below then the lines can be cut and new brazed on. Thanks!
Is it always the condenser you trap the refrigerant in? What if we need to repair something on the condensor? Is it possible to trap refrigerant in the evap coil?
It is not possible to trap refrigerant in the evap because there are not ports inside the outdoor unit if the service ports on the service valves are connected to the lineset, thanks
Is it normal for frost to form around the liquid line once it is pumped down? Also, does it matter if the evaporator is running whilst doing the pump down?
Yes this happens because the pressure is the lowest in the system in that location. Temp follows pressure. It is helpful to run the fan across the evap during a pump down to keep the pressure up but you don't absolutely have to. Thanks
So does all the refrigerant get pump back into the compressor? I notice that not all unit has an accumulater, or reciever, especially reach-in units. Also close the High side 1st , then Low side close to 0 then Shut off the Unit. Is this correct?
The unit's refrigerant gets pumped into the condensor coil and yes shut the liquid first and then shut the vapor and then the power when it gets low enough. In some cases it is right below 0 and others it is 4inch to 15inch hg. Then you see if it rises and recover anything above 0. Any refrigerant in front of the compressor will be stuck in the unit but you would still have refrigerant coming into the vapor line so yes make sure to shut that too before powering off the unit. Many times the internal pressure relief will pop before reaching this on older units so you just shut the valves at that point, turn the unit off and recover the rest. thanks
Are ther certain type compressors (reciprocating vs scroll) that you need to be more careful when pumping down?
Yes Scroll Compressors should not be pumped down below 10 or 5 psi because the refrigerant acts like insulation for between the ground frame and the electrical windings. I go into explaining the differences of compressors in my book at the website www.acservicetech.com thanks!
I guess I had it backwards I thought reciprocating compressors had that issue, thx!
If you need to find a leak in the condenser do you pump down with the service valves open?
You can use bubble leak detector or an ultrasonic leak detector and you don't have to pump down until after finding the leak, thanks!
Nice video Acservicetech. Is there any type of unit that you should not pump down, such as heat pumps. Or can you do it with all condensing units if needed?
Hey Nick, any comfort cooling unit should be able to get pumped down unless the compressor is weak. In fact that is how you can check for a weak internal pressure relief or bad valves. Just see how the compressor reacts to a partial or full pump down, thanks!
acservicetech. Never thought of that test for the compressor. But I'm Still a newbie lol! Thanks for reply boss.
AC Service Tech LLC I’ve been told that manufacturers sometimes say not do do pumpdowns on 410 units due to high pressure... thoughts?
Micro channel coils?
Which side do you release first when you turn it back on?
It will depend on the manufacturer for oil movement but Carrier, Bryan, Payne are suction first, thanks
my ? is I have to move an older mini spit condenser R 22 can I
pump unit down or should I recover. Thanks
Great Question! Mini splits usually can be pumped down even if you only have the vapor port to hook to because there are two valves but you could just recover all of it so that you can add up your lineset length in the new location and weigh exactly what you know you will need when you install it folowing manufacturer weighing specs. Thanks!
So you're actually going to >go ahead< and shut down the liquid line?
Do you ever >go back< and open the liquid line?
Don't you get really tired of >going ahead< all the time?
ha ha nice!
Hey Dude i have a question..
1. close the suction line/service when the compressor run. is it right??
2. and after then if the gauge drops to 0 close the return line?? is it right again??
correct me if im wrong.. thanks
Once running for 30 seconds, close the liquid line, then once at 0 or below 0psig have the suction line shut, thanks!
This is an older video but I hope someone can answer a question. If I want to pump down an R22 system in order to attempt to silver solder a small evaporator leak, would running a hair dryer blowing heat onto the evaporator A frame during the pump down help prevent any flash gas pressure returning after the pump down?
Nobody answered, but a great question. I would like to know what happens . I know R22 is not flammable .
@@fabiodarocha2842 I am not worried about fire or explosion from R22. I am concerned if any pressure returns on top of any heat induced pressure during the soldering if that could cause the solder repair to fail due to pressure forcing itself out before the solder hardens and leaving a fissure that itself could leak. That is if the leak is still there. Last summer I did add 2 lbs of R22 and some inject sealer. I have been self studying AC now and want to take a EPA 608 Universal Technician Certification course and get certified and maybe change jobs. The science aspect of it interests me as I am a science geek and a DIYer. I have been building up my tool collection, budget digital manifold, digital temp/wet bulb, scale...and a budget leak detector just arrived so I can really search for any leak. I just cleaned the A-frame and my air flow has increased significantly and my AC unit does run cold and cools a lot faster than before. I am sure it is a little low even if the sealer did it's job but I don't want to add any refrigerant until I am sure I can not find any leaks in the evap or condenser unit and if I do, I want to fix them first. I have a 5lb tank of R22 and am treating it like gold. The system states it hold 9lbs.
I thought you were supposed to loosen the valve packing nut on the service port prior to turning it?
Hey Chris, I like to let the unit run for a little bit before closing the liquid line and I just wanted to show it in the video instead of fast forwarding. Yes you would normally take the top cap off prior turning it on, thanks!
Do you take the values out before pump down?
I know this is a late reply, but no, you do not take your valves out before you pump down, if you were going to remove them you'd do it after you recovered the refrigerant, though if the purpose of the pumpdown is to replace the valves I would look into a core removal tool, which can remove and replace schraders even when the system is pressurized
can you demonstrate how to pump the refrigerate into the evap ?
Usually we do not have valves at the evap to lock the refrigerant there unless it is some type of industrial unit. The service valves on these residential light commercial units only allow pump down into the outdoor unit, thanks!
Since that blue hose going to the gauge, was hanging down below the system (and the gauge manifold), and liquid refrigerant could run down-hill into that hose, which is dead-ended on the gauge.
Could some liquid refrigerant sitting inside that hose be responsible for the small rise in pressure (after shutdown)?
Great Question! You can still pump down an outdoor unit even if the evap coil was below the outdoor unit level just like the hoses were below the unit in the video. Also the high side is being sucked down as well as the low side and the pressure is reducing. That would vaporize most of the refrigerant. This is why the lines get cold during a pump down but it hapens so fast that not all of the liquid gets a chance to vaporize if you just go down to 0psig. On one of my recovery videos I explained how even between 0 and 10"hg I was able to recover another pound of R410a and that just shows that some liquid is left even when you do reduce the pressure which vaporizes the refrigerant. Thanks and once again great question!
I have a question. How to pump down a heat pump or an ac unit in winter when it is cold outside? Thank you
You still turn the ac down real low at the tstat in the house and let the indoor fan run, pump down, close the valves and pull the disconnect to shut the outdoor unit off when complete.
Check out the "acservicetech pump down playlist" thanks
Thank u so much
Question!! It’s not air in the hoses manifold, right?? Need to suck the air on the hoses using the Freon
The air needs to be purged from the hoses using the refrigerant pressure first before a pump down, thanks!
AC Service Tech LLC thanks.. or book and your videos it’s very easy to understand. Thank u so much..
AC Service Tech LLC I did another question on another video about “recovery” and “vacuum” I never see any video on RUclips doing a vacuum and pressure test on the all system from the compressor “condenser”line set and evaporator coil. If we have a Freon contaminated!! how vaccum is made from condenser compressor, line set to the evaporator coil. Thanks
Not to pump down but to recover refrigerant does the ac need to be connected?
The ac should not be running when recovering refrigerant with a self contained recovery machine into a recovery bottle. A pump down on a system with a leak should not be pumped down below 0psig. Any remaining refrigerant can just be recovered afterward, thanks!
AC Service Tech LLC Ok thanks! Appreciate the vids
why the copper become freeze as it turn of?
When the pressure is low in the suction line then temperature will be low. If the pressure was high then temp would be high. The pressure and temp follow each other.
My supervisor sprays water over the condenser while pumping down the system. He says it allows more freon to be recovered by the compressor, but I don't understand his "science" and it goes against what everything else I've seen done. I hate it because it creates a mud hole for us to work in the rest of the day. Is he right by doing this or is his science faulty?
Technically yes it would help reject heat and lower the pressure on the discharge side of the compressor. I would be shutting off the hose before pulling the disconnect though and certainly not holding in a contactor while the hose is running for safety though, thanks
I checked many video about pump down, i still haven't found one that mentioned about the position of the valve of the manifold. Just please verify the position of both of these valves (liquid and suction line) should be Open or Close before even hooking up to the service nuts of the condenser. Second, can you do this procedure without supplying Power to the Air Handler or Evap coil, meaning Air Handler is off?
Great Question! Every time before attaching the gauge set, the handles will be closed. If the service valves have schrader valves then attach into them and you would read pressure. If the unit has king valves then you would need to attach the gauge set and you would move the valves with a service wrench from back seated to mid seated to start the procedure. While the system is running, the liquid line is front seated all the way down, then for r-22 when the vapor pressure reads 0 psig then the suction is closed all of the way. If it was R-410A then you would need to close the suction valve in the front seated position once you get to 10in hg. This is all taking into consideration that there is no leak where you would be sucking air into the lines during the procedure. If there is no power then we do a recovery process. Here is a video on recovery-----ruclips.net/video/g2QD8TjwRHU/видео.html
R-410A is considered high pressure refrigerant, under 200lbs., isn’t the requirement 0 psig?
Why cant you let the compressor run till the low side gauge reads -10 or then close the valve? So this way you recover more refrigerant.
You can, I should have let that unit get down a little lower. This is a training unit that we use so I didn't want to put too much strain on it, thanks!
Thank you for your reply. Do you have video for releasing the refrigerant into the system after pump down?
Actually I do not think i do have one, sorry- You should check these two videos out though- ruclips.net/video/UgQFUHAuz54/видео.html --- ruclips.net/video/W1uhVvn57Nw/видео.html
Thank you for your replies and videos. !!!
How do you know when a pump down needs to be done?
If you looking to reuse refrigerant. And either planning to do some coil cleaning, change of parts beyond the valves, or relocation
The pressure increase on the vapor line is from residual liquid refrigerant. Rather than go through recovery, why wouldn't you just turn on the compressor again and open the vapor line until it's at zero psi once more? Wouldn't that get virtually ALL of the refrigerant into the condenser at that point?
Yes Froman, the pressure increase is the liquid vaporizing but we can't turn the compressor on again without the pressures equalized. We just recover at that point, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel That doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not a "Proud HVAC Tech" (as Steve Lavimonier says). The compressor is between the liquid and vapor line. No liquid is going to flow back through the compressor into the vapor line. The compressor will just suck the remaining vapor out and compress it to liquid as it did the first time around. What is it that needs to be "equalized" ? And Why?
If you try to turn the compressor on, it won't start and the internal overload will open the electrical circuit. Pressures need to be equalized meaning that the only way to start the compressor again is to open the service valves back open again and start all over with the pump down procedure, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel Well, I'll let you know what happens because I plan to pump down my system in order to remove the evaporator coil to clean it. It's been only 40 years since I installed it myself from a DIY kit provided by a local HVAC firm. (I don't think they sell them anymore.) The coil is accessible from the back after de-brazing the lines at the front. When I installed it I just used silver-solder and a propane torch with no nitrogen. I didn't know about nitrogen purging. No problems due to copper oxide I know of. I once drove a nail into the vapor line where it went through a 2x4 in my back garage wall. And it needed a new fan motor a couple of years ago.
@@acservicetechchannel I'm still puzzled. Is the need to "equalize" the pressures something you've observed or just something you've been told? Besides, the pressures during and after the pump down are never equal.
During the pump-down the compressor has to move vapor to the liquid side against the increasing pressure of the of the accumulating liquid. It continues to do so until you shut it off. It doesn't suddenly stop running because the liquid pressure has become too high. It could continue running forever if you didn't shut it off. The pressure isn't internal to the compressor. Its outside the high side valve. It seems to me it should be able to start without needing any "equalization" of pressures.
So you need a tank still?
If the pressure rises from 0psig to a higher pressure then yes we recover that into a recovery bottle, thanks Jack!
AC Service Tech LLC Awes9me thanks!!
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@acservicetech Hey I'm a service technician and I was preforming a pump down on a mini split for the first time. I was doing it the same way as in this video. But the unit would turn off after a certain amount of time and not pump down the full way. Any ideas as to why this Is happening? I've never had this happen and I need to make a repair in the line set. Any help is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
can the compressor blow up?
It can break. The units typically use refrigerants a that are non flammable under normal circumstances in the A1 rating thanks Elijah!
oh ok awesome, thanks for the feedback! Im still somewhat new to the trade, always something different. I love it
I wan to pump down in daikin vrv 3 inverter
I would contact Daikin on that one depending on how large of a system and what safety sensors are equipped, thanks
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ur radd
.... so pump down.. doesnt drop ...
but . compressor runs normal..
??
You can't let the compressor run forever but get the pressure down fast. The compressor uses refrigerant to cool the motor and oil traveling with the refrigerant to lubricate it, thanks
Did I hear this right? Recover the remaining 5 psi of gas?
That's an insanely tiny amount, not enough to even prime the recovery pump. Just open the flares to hear the tiny puff
Agreed. Anywhere this much below the saturation temperature is just gas. You lose much more than this when the gage set is removed from the liquid line.
That's a legal requirement, whether you choose to do that or not is up to you, but this is an instructional video and he probably doesn't want any legal repercussions from the EPA. its also the responsible thing to do if you want to be recognized as a quality company, folks who cut corners in one area usually do so in many areas. In a below comment he recovered 4-5 oz for reference, or .25 pounds.
Whiskey and Wood.
Hmm. You lose more just purging gauges hoses/recovery pump. Might be taught in class but never practiced by any trademan worth his salt
Nathan any tradesman worth his salt does things the right way and I’ve never seen an hvac tech who DIDN’T recover it. Again, it’s a LEGAL requirement, if a customer or someone else sees that and reports it, there’s a huge fine and you can lose your license or whoever you work under can lose theirs. Whether you want to or not, most people recover it, even if it’s just to protect their livelihood. If you think it’s common, maybe it is in your area or with your company, but that’s not the norm around the country.
Nathan also, if you lose more than 4-5 ounces (which is what he recovered) purging your gauges, you’re the worst tech ever. You should be losing 1/2 oz or less per gauge connection (on a 5ft hose) setup if you actually know what you are doing, less if you use low loss fittings and stubby hoses.
Can I know my k
Can him to on k. Pop inulin know I do ok with it ok keep my
Interesting grammatical style. 👍
You might to re shoot your video, I don’t feel confident in your explanation. I know you know what your doing put re do it please.
Have you seen these- ruclips.net/video/ftV7DzVMDk8/видео.html - ruclips.net/video/snGgOWjfcRc/видео.html
You might need to watch the video a few more times - this video was well shot and the same steps apply to 90% of systems out there. If you don't feel confident - hire someone who is.
Freon hurting the atmosphere is such a lie....
why use the pump down system rather than recovery?
Hey Mike, personally when I change a unit out, I always recover and don't do a pump down that will make more work for myself later recovering off site. A pump down would be used if you were to do work on the evap coil, filter drier, or metering device if you did not have an empty and prepared recovery tank but a half full recovery tank and did not want to put new refrigerant back in. This is just one of those basic skills I want to make sure everyone has down because bosses seem to value this task as one of the basics. I think someone either in this post or somewhere else said this reminder helped him progress and get a raise. Mike, thanks for the question!