It did not get past me that I indexed the 58 tooth reluctor wheel using the 24 tooth wheel as a guide. But what if you have a crank that you acquired that did not have a reluctor wheel at all or you forgot to mark your crank before you removed the wheel that came on it. Well I found the solution to that too. Look at the 0:40 mark in the video. Notice the pointed round shape in the wheel. There is an opposing shape 180 degrees on the other side. These two shape’s points form a line that dissects the crank centerline. This line also lines up through the centerline of the 5/6 crank pin. Look closely and you can see how this line lines up with the casting line running up the 5/6 crank pin. I’ll do a video on this later but this gives you an indexing point when you don’t have something else to index to.
For those just now watching this video, look at the end of the crank at 0:20. If your crank has a wide flexplate flange like this stop immediately. There are no transmissions in the GM line that will work with a 58 tooth crank and a wide flange crank like this. I made a mistake using this crank in this build. I have another video in this series where I had to swap cranks after I had installed and pulled the engine back out of the truck. The crank in this video was from a 2000 or so truck and used a wider flywheel flange than later model LS cranks. It will bolt up to older transmissions like TH350 or 700r4 but not 4L60e etc. So you’ll eventually see me do a video putting a 24 tooth wheel back on this crank for another project.
it does go on in that orientation correct? i see the pointed rounds are 180 degrees away from eachother but that would make it possible to install upside down and put the double tooth in the wrong location. Thank you
@@nickc7039 look at the hole at 0:34. That hole is the key and would be flipped to the bottom if it was upside down or 180 degrees off. I believe the pointed holes are in line with the 5/6 crank pin centerline. I have another video where I discuss how to orient the trigger wheel with other v8s. Watch that video for more info.
@@moccasinmarine Gotcha. I actually installed an external 58x trigger wheel on my motor, my problem is that it takes a lot of cranking to start and no rpm on the tach but it runs great once it does start. i see you mentioned something about the maf flow sensor and i do have a code for that which doesnt clear even after replaced along with ckp code. could that somehow be related to crank code and 58x wheel? Appreciate the feedback
Heard of a blow gun?? Fancy new thing that points air right where you piloting the tip. Also, you could have rested the front of the crank in a partially installed harmonic balancer. WAY more stable.
I changed a 58x wheel to a 24x wheel. I did it the exact same way that you showed, but I’m not getting any spark. I’m getting really frustrated with this, trying different things, changing sensors. Going to check all of my ground wire connections next, I hope this helps.
You’ve left out a lot of details. The crankshaft position sensor is a different part number for 24x wheels and 58x wheels. I’d start there. Do you have power to the ignition coils? Is it no spark or it won’t run? Make sure your MAF sensor is working. The engine only needs three sensors to fire up: crankshaft position, MAF or MAP, and coolant temperature. Everything else is secondary so focus on these three.
@@moccasinmarine I’m going to trouble shoot tomorrow. I’m thinking it’s probably a ground wire issue. I have no spark at all right now, I’m going to ground the coil connection black wire directly to the chassis. I’m also going to double check all of the other grounds
How did this end up working out for you in a running vehicle? I'm looking to swap a 4.8 crank I have this weekend to 58x, luckily that crank has a reluctor wheel and so does the Gen4 engine that I'm pulling the crank out of. When I asked my tuner about doing this he was iffy on not using a jig, if you're off even 1-2* he said that's base timing at the ecu blah blah. Technically you could be off that much with the jig.
I’ve been running a 6.0 gen 3 in my truck with a 58x wheel for 2 plus years now. I bet I could get the wheel closer my way than with the jig. Watch the video to the end but I had plenty of time to line it up once I set the heated wheel in place.
You did see the caution in the comments where I tell you to make sure your crank is compatible with the engine it’s going in correct? Read the comments for more discussion.
I got a toasted gen 4 5.3 and a gen 3 5.3, can I just swap gen 4 crank into gen 3 motor and use gen 4 timing gear and cover? Also I haven't built alot of motors, but can I I pull a crank leaving caps and bearings in proper orientation , take of 24x and put on 58x , drop crank back in with same bearings and caps in proper orientation and torque caps and put back together? Or do I need to replace crank bearings?
Question 1 -yes I’m doing that myself. The knock sensors were moved from the intake valley to the outside down low on block Gen 3 to Gen 4. I’m trying out a solution and will video if it works. Question 2 - yes I’ll post a video of how to do it.
@@erik120719 not sure what you mean by same orientation but main caps have to be installed back in the same location and direction. Rod caps also have to be put back on same rod in the right direction. Gen 4 rods have fractured mating halves really won’t fit back together wrong. Send me an email to gmefiguy@gmail.com for more info. I would also not reuse the bearings. If you have the engine open why not replace bearings with new?
@@moccasinmarine motor has 115k on it, and I don't have the time to change bearings atm. I will be rebuilding the burnt up gen 4 over the winter , but have to have a truck FOR the winter and the quickest way is reuse working things and get motor in truck asap. And by same orientation, I mean same bolts back where they came from and all caps back in same direction and stuff so all bearings are back in original position. Basically I'm asking, is it ok to reuse bearings and bolts just changing the reluctor wheel and back in ? . Would be same crank going back in same gen 3 6.0, I'm just going to rebuild the gen 4 5.3 when I have more time
@@erik120719 so if I have understand your situation, you want to take the Gen 3 crank out of Gen 3 engine, swap the 24 tooth to 58 tooth reluctor and put same Gen 3 crank back in the Gen 3 engine using same bearings and install the Gen 3 in the truck to replace Gen 4 engine? You’ll need to use the Gen 4 crank sensor and get a map sensor extension harness and splice in a new cam sensor plug under the front of engine.
Great video, but I do have a question as I'm kind of doing it backwards. The 24x crank is balanced for gen3 rods/pistons, but you are using it with your gen4 rods/pistons which weigh more. Did you get the crank rebalanced? If not, how does she run? I'm not switching the trigger wheel because my 24x crank is good, but I am swapping out the rods/pistons, so I'm curious if I need to rebalance. Thanks!
The crank in video was from a 2000 6.0. It didn’t work for reasons explained in another video. I ended up buying a brand new LS2 crank that also had 24 tooth wheel which I also replaced with this same method. But I believe the LS2 which came out in 2005 used Gen 4 rods/pistons so I can’t give you a definitive answer. Btw not all 24 tooth cranks used Gen 3 rods/pistons. There were some crossover years where 24 tooth wheels had Gen 4 parts. The 2006 LH6 is one example. I have two cranks both Gen 4. One is from 5.3 and other from 6.0. I’ll get them weighed to see if the balance is different.
I took a 2001 lq4 and put gen 4 rods and .030 over ls2 pistons in it with a lsa supercharger, no I didn’t have it balanced and it runs fine…….spun it up to 6200rpm with no issues for over 3 years now
Can a reluctor wheel be swapped on a ls4 as well? Edelbrock wants me to convert the ls4 to ls2 timing specs and cover to use their efi units. Is there someone you can send in the crank to do this for a fee?
Hey bro hope ur still answering I have 02 5.3 iron block and I want to put it in my 08 gmc but do I have to change the reluctor wheel from the gen 4 onto the gen 3 and then what else ?
Yes you must change reluctor wheels. Also the knock sensors on 08 are moved down low on both sides of block. The earlier engines had knock sensors in the intake valley. If the 08 engine was aluminum and the earlier gen 3 was iron you’ll have to get a calibration change since iron blocks create different knock waves than aluminum. The 08 camshaft sensor and chain system is different and so is the crank sensor. There are quite a few differences too many to describe in a comment. You’ll need a professional engine swap company
@@moccasinmarine a tuner fixes all of that, but you still have to relocate the knock sensors and camshaft position sensor if your swapping a gen 3 motor into a gen 4 truck
I have a bottom end from a gen 4 with a gen 3 block would it be worth it to change the crank reluctor wheel onto the gen 4 crank and put it into my gen 3 block? Thanks
The reluctor wheel is determined by the pcm running your car not the block or lower end. You must run what ever wheel the pcm in the car is looking for.
@@moccasinmarine its in my ls swapped infiniti i had it running with a gen 3 but i didnt ring gap it and the rings closed up and broke the piston. But i got the full bottom end from the gen 4 for free. I put the reluctor wheel on today it was pretty easy!
@@badquality4069 ok so if you had a Gen 3 LS swapped into an Infiniti and you ran a 411 pcm you’ll need to put a Gen 3 24 tooth wheel on the Gen 4 crank
I did that swap with my 5.3 gen 4 I swapped the wheels now it only starts with the gen 3 crank sensor even tho it has the 58 tooth wheel ! Help it doesn’t start with the gen 4 crank sensor
The ECM in the car must match the sensor and trigger wheel. You can’t just randomly swap sensors and trigger wheels. As a matter of fact the ECM in the car is what drives the conversion. What year car and model do you have or better yet what is the VIN of the car that you put the engine in?
@@moccasinmarine I don’t have the vin on me right at the moment but it’s 08 gmc Sierra so what do u think let me know I’m literally taking out my motor right now
It did not get past me that I indexed the 58 tooth reluctor wheel using the 24 tooth wheel as a guide. But what if you have a crank that you acquired that did not have a reluctor wheel at all or you forgot to mark your crank before you removed the wheel that came on it. Well I found the solution to that too.
Look at the 0:40 mark in the video. Notice the pointed round shape in the wheel. There is an opposing shape 180 degrees on the other side. These two shape’s points form a line that dissects the crank centerline. This line also lines up through the centerline of the 5/6 crank pin. Look closely and you can see how this line lines up with the casting line running up the 5/6 crank pin. I’ll do a video on this later but this gives you an indexing point when you don’t have something else to index to.
For those just now watching this video, look at the end of the crank at 0:20. If your crank has a wide flexplate flange like this stop immediately. There are no transmissions in the GM line that will work with a 58 tooth crank and a wide flange crank like this. I made a mistake using this crank in this build. I have another video in this series where I had to swap cranks after I had installed and pulled the engine back out of the truck.
The crank in this video was from a 2000 or so truck and used a wider flywheel flange than later model LS cranks. It will bolt up to older transmissions like TH350 or 700r4 but not 4L60e etc. So you’ll eventually see me do a video putting a 24 tooth wheel back on this crank for another project.
it does go on in that orientation correct? i see the pointed rounds are 180 degrees away from eachother but that would make it possible to install upside down and put the double tooth in the wrong location. Thank you
@@nickc7039 look at the hole at 0:34. That hole is the key and would be flipped to the bottom if it was upside down or 180 degrees off. I believe the pointed holes are in line with the 5/6 crank pin centerline. I have another video where I discuss how to orient the trigger wheel with other v8s. Watch that video for more info.
@@moccasinmarine Gotcha. I actually installed an external 58x trigger wheel on my motor, my problem is that it takes a lot of cranking to start and no rpm on the tach but it runs great once it does start. i see you mentioned something about the maf flow sensor and i do have a code for that which doesnt clear even after replaced along with ckp code. could that somehow be related to crank code and 58x wheel? Appreciate the feedback
Heard of a blow gun?? Fancy new thing that points air right where you piloting the tip. Also, you could have rested the front of the crank in a partially installed harmonic balancer. WAY more stable.
What does a blow gun have to do with this video.
The tool is $370 now 🙄
I changed a 58x wheel to a 24x wheel. I did it the exact same way that you showed, but I’m not getting any spark. I’m getting really frustrated with this, trying different things, changing sensors. Going to check all of my ground wire connections next, I hope this helps.
You’ve left out a lot of details. The crankshaft position sensor is a different part number for 24x wheels and 58x wheels. I’d start there. Do you have power to the ignition coils? Is it no spark or it won’t run? Make sure your MAF sensor is working. The engine only needs three sensors to fire up: crankshaft position, MAF or MAP, and coolant temperature. Everything else is secondary so focus on these three.
@@moccasinmarine I’m going to trouble shoot tomorrow. I’m thinking it’s probably a ground wire issue. I have no spark at all right now, I’m going to ground the coil connection black wire directly to the chassis. I’m also going to double check all of the other grounds
@@williamb2013 Are you showing engine RPM when scanning while cranking?
@@JohnnyAnderson1 yes it was. I got it running yesterday. I grounded the black wires in both coil connectors
@@williamb2013 Awesome
How did this end up working out for you in a running vehicle? I'm looking to swap a 4.8 crank I have this weekend to 58x, luckily that crank has a reluctor wheel and so does the Gen4 engine that I'm pulling the crank out of. When I asked my tuner about doing this he was iffy on not using a jig, if you're off even 1-2* he said that's base timing at the ecu blah blah. Technically you could be off that much with the jig.
I’ve been running a 6.0 gen 3 in my truck with a 58x wheel for 2 plus years now. I bet I could get the wheel closer my way than with the jig. Watch the video to the end but I had plenty of time to line it up once I set the heated wheel in place.
Wow had no idea that could be done…. Can you put a 24 tooth on a ls3, 6.2l??? Love the video
You can swap either wheel to any ls crankshaft.
You can also bore any 6.0L ls block to 6.2 bore and have a Gen 3 LS3
Perfect thanks man I really enjoyed the video super informative
Great Vid, straight to the point. not much hey welcome to my garage n look at my cars haha
You did see the caution in the comments where I tell you to make sure your crank is compatible with the engine it’s going in correct? Read the comments for more discussion.
I got a toasted gen 4 5.3 and a gen 3 5.3, can I just swap gen 4 crank into gen 3 motor and use gen 4 timing gear and cover? Also I haven't built alot of motors, but can I I pull a crank leaving caps and bearings in proper orientation , take of 24x and put on 58x , drop crank back in with same bearings and caps in proper orientation and torque caps and put back together? Or do I need to replace crank bearings?
Question 1 -yes I’m doing that myself. The knock sensors were moved from the intake valley to the outside down low on block Gen 3 to Gen 4. I’m trying out a solution and will video if it works. Question 2 - yes I’ll post a video of how to do it.
@@moccasinmarine leave crank caps and connecting rods in same orientation also and just retorque?
@@erik120719 not sure what you mean by same orientation but main caps have to be installed back in the same location and direction. Rod caps also have to be put back on same rod in the right direction. Gen 4 rods have fractured mating halves really won’t fit back together wrong. Send me an email to gmefiguy@gmail.com for more info. I would also not reuse the bearings. If you have the engine open why not replace bearings with new?
@@moccasinmarine motor has 115k on it, and I don't have the time to change bearings atm. I will be rebuilding the burnt up gen 4 over the winter , but have to have a truck FOR the winter and the quickest way is reuse working things and get motor in truck asap. And by same orientation, I mean same bolts back where they came from and all caps back in same direction and stuff so all bearings are back in original position. Basically I'm asking, is it ok to reuse bearings and bolts just changing the reluctor wheel and back in ? . Would be same crank going back in same gen 3 6.0, I'm just going to rebuild the gen 4 5.3 when I have more time
@@erik120719 so if I have understand your situation, you want to take the Gen 3 crank out of Gen 3 engine, swap the 24 tooth to 58 tooth reluctor and put same Gen 3 crank back in the Gen 3 engine using same bearings and install the Gen 3 in the truck to replace Gen 4 engine? You’ll need to use the Gen 4 crank sensor and get a map sensor extension harness and splice in a new cam sensor plug under the front of engine.
Great video, but I do have a question as I'm kind of doing it backwards. The 24x crank is balanced for gen3 rods/pistons, but you are using it with your gen4 rods/pistons which weigh more. Did you get the crank rebalanced? If not, how does she run? I'm not switching the trigger wheel because my 24x crank is good, but I am swapping out the rods/pistons, so I'm curious if I need to rebalance. Thanks!
The crank in video was from a 2000 6.0. It didn’t work for reasons explained in another video. I ended up buying a brand new LS2 crank that also had 24 tooth wheel which I also replaced with this same method. But I believe the LS2 which came out in 2005 used Gen 4 rods/pistons so I can’t give you a definitive answer. Btw not all 24 tooth cranks used Gen 3 rods/pistons. There were some crossover years where 24 tooth wheels had Gen 4 parts. The 2006 LH6 is one example. I have two cranks both Gen 4. One is from 5.3 and other from 6.0. I’ll get them weighed to see if the balance is different.
I took a 2001 lq4 and put gen 4 rods and .030 over ls2 pistons in it with a lsa supercharger, no I didn’t have it balanced and it runs fine…….spun it up to 6200rpm with no issues for over 3 years now
Can a reluctor wheel be swapped on a ls4 as well? Edelbrock wants me to convert the ls4 to ls2 timing specs and cover to use their efi units. Is there someone you can send in the crank to do this for a fee?
I’m not aware of a special place to swap reluctor wheels. Any competent machine shop in your area should be able to do it.
Hey bro hope ur still answering I have 02 5.3 iron block and I want to put it in my 08 gmc but do I have to change the reluctor wheel from the gen 4 onto the gen 3 and then what else ?
Yes you must change reluctor wheels. Also the knock sensors on 08 are moved down low on both sides of block. The earlier engines had knock sensors in the intake valley. If the 08 engine was aluminum and the earlier gen 3 was iron you’ll have to get a calibration change since iron blocks create different knock waves than aluminum. The 08 camshaft sensor and chain system is different and so is the crank sensor. There are quite a few differences too many to describe in a comment. You’ll need a professional engine swap company
@@moccasinmarine a tuner fixes all of that, but you still have to relocate the knock sensors and camshaft position sensor if your swapping a gen 3 motor into a gen 4 truck
I have a bottom end from a gen 4 with a gen 3 block would it be worth it to change the crank reluctor wheel onto the gen 4 crank and put it into my gen 3 block? Thanks
The reluctor wheel is determined by the pcm running your car not the block or lower end. You must run what ever wheel the pcm in the car is looking for.
@@moccasinmarine oh ok thank you 🙏
@@badquality4069 what car are you planning on putting the engine in?
@@moccasinmarine its in my ls swapped infiniti i had it running with a gen 3 but i didnt ring gap it and the rings closed up and broke the piston. But i got the full bottom end from the gen 4 for free. I put the reluctor wheel on today it was pretty easy!
@@badquality4069 ok so if you had a Gen 3 LS swapped into an Infiniti and you ran a 411 pcm you’ll need to put a Gen 3 24 tooth wheel on the Gen 4 crank
I did that swap with my 5.3 gen 4 I swapped the wheels now it only starts with the gen 3 crank sensor even tho it has the 58 tooth wheel ! Help it doesn’t start with the gen 4 crank sensor
The ECM in the car must match the sensor and trigger wheel. You can’t just randomly swap sensors and trigger wheels. As a matter of fact the ECM in the car is what drives the conversion. What year car and model do you have or better yet what is the VIN of the car that you put the engine in?
@@moccasinmarine I don’t have the vin on me right at the moment but it’s 08 gmc Sierra so what do u think let me know I’m literally taking out my motor right now
@@moccasinmarine so how do I match that or what
@@aaronzavala4336 the 2008 Sierra had an E38 ECM which uses a 58 tooth trigger wheel and 4 tooth cam gear.
It also had AFM which you will want to get rid of. Google DOD DELETE to find out how.