Love this video and I could not agree more! I've been second shooting steady since 2017. I shot 30 weddings in 2019 (not so many last year because of COVID). I love everything about shooting weddings except for the 'business' part. Second-shooting I get to do what I love, I get great food (and cake, my favorite). When I'm done I hand over the memory cards, pick up a paycheck. No editing to worry about and I can do three or more weddings in a week without ever worrying about getting behind on editing. I've worked my way up from second-shooting to *associate-shooting* now. It's the same concept but more responsibility and more pay. I don't have any desire to build my own wedding business but I'm more than happy to work for others who need help. If things ever slow down I'll work on a second-shooter page for my website, but I've been busy enough working for several different established wedding photographers and I love it!
Y'all THIS comment right here is an example of what I'm EXACTLY talking about. Leading your own photography business isn't for everyone but being a second photographer is a GREAT deal and pays well also. Something to seriously consider.
@@jbivphotography - That's one of the first things I tell photographers when they interview me for second-shooting or associate shooting: "I care more about YOUR portfolio that I do about my own. I'm not going to stand behind you and take the same shots you're getting, I'll be getting a different angle or off doing something else that needs to be done, even if it's less glamorous" I love watching your videos because even though I'm probably never going to have a wedding business of my own, it doesn't mean that I don't want to keep growing my photography and customer service skills. Every time I watch your videos I see something I can apply to my work, even as a second or associate shooter.
@@jbivphotography even as a second you still need to be a people person. I shoot second for a friend of mine who does weddings and my job usually is to take all the groom getting ready with his groomsmen photos while she would focus on the bride getting ready photos. You still need need to be a people person if you are in this role to be able to connect and work with the groom and groomsmen to get good photos.
I literally agree about Customer Service. In order for you to have a successful event, you need to have a good relationship with your customer at the same time being transparent and basically good photos haha.
Being a second photographer sounds like the perfect fit for me. I'm new to the industry and have been looking for a way to start. As an introvert, beginning in a role with less stress is ideal. Thank you for the opportunity. This has been super insightful.
Great video and sincere thoughts on 2nd shooters, I've been 2nd shooting for years and side hustling my own weddings whenever I can all while holding a FT job. It's tough to find clients in my area especially when everyone and their brother is trying to start a wedding photography business. We're completely saturated with wedding photographers in my area but I'll leave those comments for another video; basically everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon trying to get into the business and it makes it that much tougher to find my own clients. I do most of my second shooting with a well-known married couple who have a very successful photography business and I get to shoot some of the most luxurious weddings as a second shooter. Like John says, no worries for me at all as a 2nd; I show up on the date an time on the schedule and I know exactly what my leads want. It didn't come easy, I learned some lessons on what not to do along the way and now I'm a well-oiled photo machine! They give me a set of SD cards at the start of the shoot, I take part in all the sessions from bride and groom prep all the way till the send off. I choose a some good angles while staying out of the lead photographer's way and get them the best shots I can. I have the mindset that I'm their employee and I'm there for them, to get them the best shots I can for their client. Sometimes I let my camera hang while lugging around their equipment and my own as we set up different shots but that's all part of the job. To be a great second shooter you need to set aside your ego and take on a worker mindset. Don't 2nd shoot if you're not going to respect the lead photographer's space and style. Don't pose their clients unless the lead asks you to, Don't take your own business cards and hand them to guests, Don't shoot if the lead asks you to just stand by and help with lighting etc.; Don't stand around if you're supposed to be shooting, Don't be late, Be reliable and responsible, be there when you say you'll be there, Don't EVER back out at the last minute and leave the lead hanging with no 2nd shooter! Put yourself in their shoes and do what you would want your own 2nd shooter to do for you. Don't over charge for your services, be fair with your price. Give your lead the best you can at every event. Follow these tips and you'll continue to get more and more work.
People ask me all the time about getting in to shooting weddings., I tell them to 2nd shoot for 2-3 seasons first and then spend another 2 years building their portfolio
This is all so true! I’m in my 13th year and have my own wedding photography business. I’ve been thinking about transitioning from a lead tog to a 2nd shooter in the future when I no longer want to be a lead. Your 2nd is very smart to have a dedicated website for 2nd shooting. I will definitely be doing that when the time comes.
Glad this was helpful. It really can make the difference in someones life I think. Not everyone has to run a whole photography business. Nothing wrong with being a reliable second and making good money on the weekends.
I love your videos!!!! I can fairly say that out of all the photographers I have seen on RUclips are the best one I have learned so much Thank you keep up the good work. Much love here from Denmark
Right off you hit on one of the things so many people don't realize then get bummed about. Be it wedding, portrait, or pretty much any professional photographer doing it on their own. It's 80% business and marketing, and 20% or less, actually doing photography. I've done customer service in a variety of ways most of my long life including portrait photography. I still don't do weddings because it is too much and I find it stressful. I would second with no issues. Primary? I can skip that. My hair is grey, but I still have it. LOL
Getting a website as a second is a great idea, as well as understanding it’s only 20% technical, the rest customer service. All good advice. Will be taken!
Just getting into photography as a new career. Love the advice! I was an event theme designer for years. Too much snoozing you have to do. I just want to take photos and go home. Have my 107 licence now and working on my PPA certification. I needed some sage advice. Thank you! At 55 starting a new career path is filled with guesswork and stress. So this makes a lot of sense.
Usually when I'm looking into seconds first I want to see what they're like as a person. If their vibe and approach to customer service will fit with the way I service my clients. After that I look at their work and make sure they take good photos that I could depend on if I needed them to shoot something by themselves. Once all of that lines up then I'm ready to hire them on as a second.
I absolutely love this! My husband and I have a photography business but will be transitioning to NY. Speaking to our Photography Business person she suggested the same thing, start 2nd shooting now to make it easier to start 2nd shooting in NY to get acclimated. Maybe that’s all I will do or maybe that’ll allow us to transition easier. Thanks for the tips! Love your channel!!!!
Great video man :) I got absolutely no interest in becoming a wedding photographer - but for myself second shooting is a great way for me to supplement my income and get weekend work, while I work on my own branding photography business during the week. I’d really love to shoot more weddings as a second, but the hardest thing is tapping into the network of the photographers I’d like to work for :) I think as you said showing them the value I can add and how I can help them is the best approach. SO much good stuff comes out of being a second shooter A: your learning and improving your photography B: Your developing friendships and relationships C: It’s great money (Almost a full time weekly wage at times) D: Frees up your week AND so much more!!! Best video on RUclips about second shooting - Thanks man :)
Is is awesome advice. Good video would be how to find photographs to 2nd shot with and what to expect to be asked before contacting a wedding photographer..
This is some great info, I have done wedding photography in the past. Now that i am getting older (late 60's) I still love working with people just wondering if I want to go at it full-time again. I move to a new town and trying to put down new roots. This second shooter may work for me. Thanks
Excellent video. You may have just changed my mind on going into wedding photography. I think being 2nd wedding photographer might be what I really wanna do. I'm definitely gonna do some research on it. Thanks for a great lesson.
But I LOVE running a business and interacting with customers/people! I think taking ownership of what you do is how you maintain the quality of your craft :D
It's very true. The main thing I was talking about here however is many photographers feel the only way they can be a photographer is by running their own business even if that's not totally what they love to do. Hoping to let others know that they're able to be a photographer and second and there's nothing wrong with it.
Interesting video! I’ve been thinking about doing some second camera for weddings. Can you talk about what you mean when you say supporting the main photographer? Is it referring to little things on the wedding day like getting pieces to do flat lays as well as assistant-type things like grabbing Tylenol from the car and that sort of thing?
I am a second shooter! I shoot for 3 different photographers, I love shooting and helping the lead accomplish their goal. I support my main shooters by anticipating needs, not being afraid to be assertive when I see something they may have missed but know they want to be fixed, helping during family portraits, and more. As a second shooter, my MAIN GOAL is to be day-of support for the lead. Learning their values and shooting style by studying their work is also helpful. If my lead needs Tylenol, I'm gonna find some lol.
I def feel like my customer service skills are on point. I mean, it’s been my main deal for decades. But I would totally love being a second, and I’m really thinking about it.
Hi John, inspiring as always. I would love to see a Q&A with your second photographer! I mean we like you 😂 but it would be fun to see you with someone else. The video with Eric was very cool! Thx for the great advices
I specifically stayed silent and worked behind the scenes to work on the business aspect for 3 months then the photography skills aspect for 3 months and I don’t think I’d do anything different.
I find it's actually HARDER to be a second because the main photographers want strong seconds who can basically be a first but you can't BE experienced if you don't GET any opportunities.
John I currently second because i have a full time job i am very happy with but i love doing photography so i do portrait photography and second on the side almost as a hobby. I absolutely love being a second and think that because i am not looking to become a main makes me a better second. is there anyway you can share the link to your and if you have some other second shooter websites i would be interested to see how they set up their pages
Thank you for the info on becoming a second photographer. I had never thought about it but I would love to give it a try.( I have over 20 years of customer service experience and know how important that is) I think working as a second photographer would allow me to help and expand my photography skills as a photographer in general. Is it possible to do a video with your second photographer?
Hey John, thanks for this vid. Very helpful insights. BTW - If you're good at supporting the primary shooter and have good skill - does it matter what you're shooting for gear in order to get booked as a 2nd shooter (in order to "match" their colors, look & feel, etc). Thanks!
What does a second photographer do exactly? You said support the main photographer but how is that? Do you take photos from other angles like while the ceremony is happening etc or?
I second for a friend who shoots weddings and we have pretty clear communication on what our roles are when we shoot together. For the getting ready before the wedding shots she gets the photos of the bride and the bridesmaids getting ready and I shot the groom and the groomsmen getting ready photos. During the ceremony I focus on the groom and she focuses on the bride so this way she can shots of the bride when she enters and walks down the aisle and I can focus on getting shots of the groom and his expression when he sees walking down the aisle. From there its a matter of knowing what angles you can get and trying to get different angles that the ones she is getting, we are pretty good about seeing where each other are and signaling if to each if we need each other to get certain angles. This is the ideal type where you and the first shooter know each other well enough to communicate ahead of time and have a clear idea of what your roles are.
Please could you make a video on how to price your services? And when you quote a price does that include separate engagement photos etc or just for the day of ?
You seem like a great guy to work for. The one thing I have noticed in the photo biz is how arrogant some photographers are, like their work is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It's honestly the most annoying thing. I don't know why photographers act like that. We should just share information and teach those around us and all grow. It's not too hard.
@@jbivphotography So you have noticed that too? Even in sports its like that on the sidelines. How about the guy that insists on showing you images he has taken on his LCD during the event? I mean seriously lol
Shot about 100 weddings around 2008-10 and burned out. Trying out on my own was just brutal and not fun at all. However, second shooting was a great joy. If I were to re-enter the niche as a dedicated 2nd, what gear is needed in 2024 from a video/photo camera and lens choice? Are my DSLR's and glass outdated?
I see the advantage of being a second shooter. I don’t have a problem with customer service or making the customer happy it’s all the behind the scenes of the 80% you speak of.
It’s a great gig if you’re not fully looking to run a business. I know a lot of people who only second and honestly it’s easier money than being a lead photographer.
@@jbivphotography Thanks. As I'm just getting started I may second for a while, to get my toes wet and gain experience and see if I want to go it alone. I like the idea of my own business and control over everything, but realize I have a lot to learn first, and need to gain more confidence in my ability.
Reach out to photographers and let them know your experience level. If you are just starting out, you may need to get a few weddings under your belt. If you have experience give them your rate and ask if they need consistent second shooters. hope this helps!
@@jbivphotography Couldn't agree more! Just in my short time in the space my customer service background has proven to be invaluable dealing with people!
I've done both in my 37 years career. I find both are rewarding in their own way. But wedding photography is not my bread and butter. I do other types of photography can are more lucrative. I do enjoy wedding photography more when I'm not the one that has to edit two thousand images. ;-)
Currently a car salesman. Customer service is always and has to be at 100%. You can do the job amazingly, but it’s futile if your customer service is subpar.
If you’re not good at pr and marketing yourself, (and your ppl skills are lacking)... you will not be good at lining out engagement sessions. If you are good at doing engagement photography, you can start building your wedding photography.
Imo closed mouths don’t get fed. I think being honest and up front about wanting to build your portfolio is a good idea. Of course supporting the lead photographer and offering customer service to the couple/family comes first. That doesn’t mean that they are there just for themselves if they let that be known though, it’s a balance. It can also help second shooters weed out those lead photographers that are just about self, looking for a luggage carrying assistant, and/or don’t want to pass on any knowledge or experience.
While you say "if you work at best buy and don't like it, don't be a photographer" The big difference is you get to choose your clients. It works both ways, clients need to know who to trust and like to work with. in best buy you HAVE to take their shit and follow the companies crappy rules. I worked in a shop in the UK I loved it for the first couple of years, I was great seving people and having a laugh and got to know everyone in my town. But there were so many horrible people I just wish I didn't have to deal with every single day, multiple times a day. I never got to choose who to serve and that's why people usually hate it, or their boss is a C*** haha. But I get it you're diggin at the shitty photographers who want a quick buck, I think it's great just to be my own boss, yes it's a lot of responsibility but your work and your Customer service should speak volumes and those attributes should let your client know to hire you and not some cheap joebloggs , you will have no problems. Anyway, Saying that there's people I know in retail who have big dreams but are probably more suited to office jobs that involve an IQ of 12. :P
If your second photographer isn't doing what you need, then you hired poorly and/or managed badly. That is on you as the person running the wedding. It's hard being a manager and most people get into photography without really wanting that real responsibility, so they are terrible at it and surprised when they need to put effort into managing. And to me it's the failure of primaries to lift the industry, not the failure of some people who are apparently good enough at marketing to get jobs but not do the jobs well.
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Love this video and I could not agree more!
I've been second shooting steady since 2017. I shot 30 weddings in 2019 (not so many last year because of COVID).
I love everything about shooting weddings except for the 'business' part.
Second-shooting I get to do what I love, I get great food (and cake, my favorite). When I'm done I hand over the memory cards, pick up a paycheck. No editing to worry about and I can do three or more weddings in a week without ever worrying about getting behind on editing.
I've worked my way up from second-shooting to *associate-shooting* now. It's the same concept but more responsibility and more pay.
I don't have any desire to build my own wedding business but I'm more than happy to work for others who need help. If things ever slow down I'll work on a second-shooter page for my website, but I've been busy enough working for several different established wedding photographers and I love it!
Y'all THIS comment right here is an example of what I'm EXACTLY talking about. Leading your own photography business isn't for everyone but being a second photographer is a GREAT deal and pays well also. Something to seriously consider.
@@jbivphotography - That's one of the first things I tell photographers when they interview me for second-shooting or associate shooting: "I care more about YOUR portfolio that I do about my own. I'm not going to stand behind you and take the same shots you're getting, I'll be getting a different angle or off doing something else that needs to be done, even if it's less glamorous"
I love watching your videos because even though I'm probably never going to have a wedding business of my own, it doesn't mean that I don't want to keep growing my photography and customer service skills. Every time I watch your videos I see something I can apply to my work, even as a second or associate shooter.
“Bro, don’t get into wedding photography” 🙌🏽. So many people ask me how to be wedding photogs without liking people - just be a second.
EXACTLY! It’s a people job. Photos are the smallest little bit of it. As a second you can just focus on the photos. Much better for some folks.
Everyone dislikes "people" after a negative client experience, what's new?
@@jbivphotography even as a second you still need to be a people person. I shoot second for a friend of mine who does weddings and my job usually is to take all the groom getting ready with his groomsmen photos while she would focus on the bride getting ready photos. You still need need to be a people person if you are in this role to be able to connect and work with the groom and groomsmen to get good photos.
I literally agree about Customer Service. In order for you to have a successful event, you need to have a good relationship with your customer at the same time being transparent and basically good photos haha.
Being a second photographer sounds like the perfect fit for me. I'm new to the industry and have been looking for a way to start. As an introvert, beginning in a role with less stress is ideal.
Thank you for the opportunity. This has been super insightful.
Great video and sincere thoughts on 2nd shooters, I've been 2nd shooting for years and side hustling my own weddings whenever I can all while holding a FT job. It's tough to find clients in my area especially when everyone and their brother is trying to start a wedding photography business. We're completely saturated with wedding photographers in my area but I'll leave those comments for another video; basically everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon trying to get into the business and it makes it that much tougher to find my own clients. I do most of my second shooting with a well-known married couple who have a very successful photography business and I get to shoot some of the most luxurious weddings as a second shooter. Like John says, no worries for me at all as a 2nd; I show up on the date an time on the schedule and I know exactly what my leads want. It didn't come easy, I learned some lessons on what not to do along the way and now I'm a well-oiled photo machine! They give me a set of SD cards at the start of the shoot, I take part in all the sessions from bride and groom prep all the way till the send off. I choose a some good angles while staying out of the lead photographer's way and get them the best shots I can. I have the mindset that I'm their employee and I'm there for them, to get them the best shots I can for their client. Sometimes I let my camera hang while lugging around their equipment and my own as we set up different shots but that's all part of the job. To be a great second shooter you need to set aside your ego and take on a worker mindset. Don't 2nd shoot if you're not going to respect the lead photographer's space and style. Don't pose their clients unless the lead asks you to, Don't take your own business cards and hand them to guests, Don't shoot if the lead asks you to just stand by and help with lighting etc.; Don't stand around if you're supposed to be shooting, Don't be late, Be reliable and responsible, be there when you say you'll be there, Don't EVER back out at the last minute and leave the lead hanging with no 2nd shooter! Put yourself in their shoes and do what you would want your own 2nd shooter to do for you. Don't over charge for your services, be fair with your price. Give your lead the best you can at every event. Follow these tips and you'll continue to get more and more work.
What a great comment. Did you just message photographers to offer your services? How much can one charge as a second photographer?
People ask me all the time about getting in to shooting weddings., I tell them to 2nd shoot for 2-3 seasons first and then spend another 2 years building their portfolio
This is all so true! I’m in my 13th year and have my own wedding photography business. I’ve been thinking about transitioning from a lead tog to a 2nd shooter in the future when I no longer want to be a lead. Your 2nd is very smart to have a dedicated website for 2nd shooting. I will definitely be doing that when the time comes.
I love this !! This is definitely something I needed… you make so much sense..
Glad this was helpful. It really can make the difference in someones life I think. Not everyone has to run a whole photography business. Nothing wrong with being a reliable second and making good money on the weekends.
I was about to say… seconds need to pay taxes too! But then you came back and said that lol
I love your videos!!!! I can fairly say that out of all the photographers I have seen on RUclips are the best one I have learned so much Thank you keep up the good work. Much love here from Denmark
Right off you hit on one of the things so many people don't realize then get bummed about. Be it wedding, portrait, or pretty much any professional photographer doing it on their own. It's 80% business and marketing, and 20% or less, actually doing photography. I've done customer service in a variety of ways most of my long life including portrait photography. I still don't do weddings because it is too much and I find it stressful. I would second with no issues. Primary? I can skip that. My hair is grey, but I still have it. LOL
Getting a website as a second is a great idea, as well as understanding it’s only 20% technical, the rest customer service. All good advice. Will be taken!
Just getting into photography as a new career. Love the advice! I was an event theme designer for years. Too much snoozing you have to do. I just want to take photos and go home. Have my 107 licence now and working on my PPA certification.
I needed some sage advice. Thank you! At 55 starting a new career path is filled with guesswork and stress. So this makes a lot of sense.
Oh Yes. I wouldn't mind being a 2nd wedding photographer and learn as Im doing.
Usually when I'm looking into seconds first I want to see what they're like as a person. If their vibe and approach to customer service will fit with the way I service my clients. After that I look at their work and make sure they take good photos that I could depend on if I needed them to shoot something by themselves. Once all of that lines up then I'm ready to hire them on as a second.
Dropping knowledge on us!!
ALWAYS! 👏👏
I absolutely love this! My husband and I have a photography business but will be transitioning to NY. Speaking to our Photography Business person she suggested the same thing, start 2nd shooting now to make it easier to start 2nd shooting in NY to get acclimated. Maybe that’s all I will do or maybe that’ll allow us to transition easier. Thanks for the tips! Love your channel!!!!
Spot on! That is why I stick to second, mostly.. It's just more fun, and less hassle..
You’re incredible! Thank you for such valuable information!!!
Great video man :) I got absolutely no interest in becoming a wedding photographer - but for myself second shooting is a great way for me to supplement my income and get weekend work, while I work on my own branding photography business during the week. I’d really love to shoot more weddings as a second, but the hardest thing is tapping into the network of the photographers I’d like to work for :) I think as you said showing them the value I can add and how I can help them is the best approach. SO much good stuff comes out of being a second shooter A: your learning and improving your photography B: Your developing friendships and relationships C: It’s great money (Almost a full time weekly wage at times) D: Frees up your week AND so much more!!! Best video on RUclips about second shooting - Thanks man :)
Is is awesome advice. Good video would be how to find photographs to 2nd shot with and what to expect to be asked before contacting a wedding photographer..
That was a great video! Super helpful!
Awesome! I'm glad it was helpful!
I remember Joe Buissink talking about being second photographer at his own business.. but not for any of the reasons mentioned in the video though.
This is some great info, I have done wedding photography in the past. Now that i am getting older (late 60's) I still love working with people just wondering if I want to go at it full-time again. I move to a new town and trying to put down new roots. This second shooter may work for me. Thanks
Excellent video. You may have just changed my mind on going into wedding photography. I think being 2nd wedding photographer might be what I really wanna do. I'm definitely gonna do some research on it. Thanks for a great lesson.
Great video John!one of the best if not the best in the wedd business
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.
Great information, awesome video!
Glad you liked it!
I was a 2nd photographer because it matched my personality to do so, and because I excelled at a more photo-journalistic style.
But I LOVE running a business and interacting with customers/people! I think taking ownership of what you do is how you maintain the quality of your craft :D
It's very true. The main thing I was talking about here however is many photographers feel the only way they can be a photographer is by running their own business even if that's not totally what they love to do. Hoping to let others know that they're able to be a photographer and second and there's nothing wrong with it.
Interesting video! I’ve been thinking about doing some second camera for weddings. Can you talk about what you mean when you say supporting the main photographer? Is it referring to little things on the wedding day like getting pieces to do flat lays as well as assistant-type things like grabbing Tylenol from the car and that sort of thing?
I am a second shooter! I shoot for 3 different photographers, I love shooting and helping the lead accomplish their goal. I support my main shooters by anticipating needs, not being afraid to be assertive when I see something they may have missed but know they want to be fixed, helping during family portraits, and more. As a second shooter, my MAIN GOAL is to be day-of support for the lead. Learning their values and shooting style by studying their work is also helpful. If my lead needs Tylenol, I'm gonna find some lol.
I def feel like my customer service skills are on point. I mean, it’s been my main deal for decades. But I would totally love being a second, and I’m really thinking about it.
YES!
Hi John, inspiring as always. I would love to see a Q&A with your second photographer! I mean we like you 😂 but it would be fun to see you with someone else. The video with Eric was very cool!
Thx for the great advices
I specifically stayed silent and worked behind the scenes to work on the business aspect for 3 months then the photography skills aspect for 3 months and I don’t think I’d do anything different.
I find it's actually HARDER to be a second because the main photographers want strong seconds who can basically be a first but you can't BE experienced if you don't GET any opportunities.
John I currently second because i have a full time job i am very happy with but i love doing photography so i do portrait photography and second on the side almost as a hobby. I absolutely love being a second and think that because i am not looking to become a main makes me a better second. is there anyway you can share the link to your and if you have some other second shooter websites i would be interested to see how they set up their pages
thank u mr Branch, i didn't ever think about it
You're welcome. I hope this all was helpful.
Dope video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Funny.. I was just thinking about this and was going to ask you about how do you choose or become a 2nd photographer.
I think I'm going to make a couple more videos on the topic of being a second photographer as well. Glad I was able to read your mind.
Amazing tips! Thank you so much!
You're so welcome!
Amen brother!😉👍📸
Thanks for watching
Thank you for the info on becoming a second photographer. I had never thought about it but I would love to give it a try.( I have over 20 years of customer service experience and know how important that is) I think working as a second photographer would allow me to help and expand my photography skills as a photographer in general. Is it possible to do a video with your second photographer?
I know this was posted 2years ago.
But great advice ..
Hey John, thanks for this vid. Very helpful insights. BTW - If you're good at supporting the primary shooter and have good skill - does it matter what you're shooting for gear in order to get booked as a 2nd shooter (in order to "match" their colors, look & feel, etc). Thanks!
I am a dedicated second shooter, I love it.
YES! I hope everyone sees this and follows in your example if it's the right move for them and their current situation.
What does a second photographer do exactly? You said support the main photographer but how is that? Do you take photos from other angles like while the ceremony is happening etc or?
I second for a friend who shoots weddings and we have pretty clear communication on what our roles are when we shoot together. For the getting ready before the wedding shots she gets the photos of the bride and the bridesmaids getting ready and I shot the groom and the groomsmen getting ready photos. During the ceremony I focus on the groom and she focuses on the bride so this way she can shots of the bride when she enters and walks down the aisle and I can focus on getting shots of the groom and his expression when he sees walking down the aisle. From there its a matter of knowing what angles you can get and trying to get different angles that the ones she is getting, we are pretty good about seeing where each other are and signaling if to each if we need each other to get certain angles. This is the ideal type where you and the first shooter know each other well enough to communicate ahead of time and have a clear idea of what your roles are.
The intro of this video just made me anxious, reminding me of all the stuff I still need to do 😬😭
OMG it's never ending!
Please could you make a video on how to price your services? And when you quote a price does that include separate engagement photos etc or just for the day of ?
Thanks for this!
Eye opener! Great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
Well said John!
I would LOVE to be a second photographer!!
Finally. Someone telling the truth about this business. Because it is a business. Thank you.
It's true. Everyone wants to talk of the glamour. No one wants to talk about running a business.
On point. Thanks. Subbed!
Thanks for the sub! I’m glad you enjoyed the content!
You seem like a great guy to work for. The one thing I have noticed in the photo biz is how arrogant some photographers are, like their work is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It's honestly the most annoying thing. I don't know why photographers act like that. We should just share information and teach those around us and all grow. It's not too hard.
@@jbivphotography So you have noticed that too? Even in sports its like that on the sidelines. How about the guy that insists on showing you images he has taken on his LCD during the event? I mean seriously lol
This was really good information.💯
Glad it was helpful!
Shot about 100 weddings around 2008-10 and burned out. Trying out on my own was just brutal and not fun at all. However, second shooting was a great joy. If I were to re-enter the niche as a dedicated 2nd, what gear is needed in 2024 from a video/photo camera and lens choice? Are my DSLR's and glass outdated?
I see the advantage of being a second shooter. I don’t have a problem with customer service or making the customer happy it’s all the behind the scenes of the 80% you speak of.
Exactly. Not having to have everything fall on you on a wedding day is a huge help. That’s probably the best part of being a second.
Great video, I will definitely consider being a second after this.
It’s a great gig if you’re not fully looking to run a business. I know a lot of people who only second and honestly it’s easier money than being a lead photographer.
@@jbivphotography Thanks. As I'm just getting started I may second for a while, to get my toes wet and gain experience and see if I want to go it alone. I like the idea of my own business and control over everything, but realize I have a lot to learn first, and need to gain more confidence in my ability.
Great advice.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I hope there's a bunch of photographers out there who listen to this.
Could you please talk about as a second photographer how to give offer to the main photographer? Thanks.
Reach out to photographers and let them know your experience level. If you are just starting out, you may need to get a few weddings under your belt. If you have experience give them your rate and ask if they need consistent second shooters. hope this helps!
Sounds like the perfect option for me🤔
CUSTOMER SERVICE!! YES!!
The BEST photographers who are always booked up focus on CUSTOMER SERVICE! They also just happen to be amazing at photography.
@@jbivphotography Couldn't agree more! Just in my short time in the space my customer service background has proven to be invaluable dealing with people!
I've done both in my 37 years career. I find both are rewarding in their own way. But wedding photography is not my bread and butter. I do other types of photography can are more lucrative. I do enjoy wedding photography more when I'm not the one that has to edit two thousand images. ;-)
Yes! Second Shooting is such a great option for some people!
What about wanting to run business and being a second to gain experience and exposure?
Currently a car salesman. Customer service is always and has to be at 100%. You can do the job amazingly, but it’s futile if your customer service is subpar.
EXACTLY!
If you’re not good at pr and marketing yourself, (and your ppl skills are lacking)... you will not be good at lining out engagement sessions. If you are good at doing engagement photography, you can start building your wedding photography.
Boiling down. We are now talking about boss vs worker
Second photographer is basically being an assistant
What did you normally charge for engagement photos?
How much do second photographers get paid on average would you say? For a days work?
Probably around $500-700 if the main photographer is paying like they should. They’d typically for an 8 hour day.
How much do 2nd photographers typically get paid on average?
Generally I pay aroudn $35-$50 an hour depending on experience.
Can i ask john?
What lens would you choose if you just have 1 lens at weddings?
17-50mm f2.8
24mm f1.8
35mm f1.8
Or 50mm 1.8
In APSC
If I had a single lens only I would probably go with a zoom. That 17-50mm is a good overall focal length. It should cover most all of what you need.
Imo closed mouths don’t get fed. I think being honest and up front about wanting to build your portfolio is a good idea. Of course supporting the lead photographer and offering customer service to the couple/family comes first. That doesn’t mean that they are there just for themselves if they let that be known though, it’s a balance.
It can also help second shooters weed out those lead photographers that are just about self, looking for a luggage carrying assistant, and/or don’t want to pass on any knowledge or experience.
Great video as always though.
On average how much do you pay your second photographer?
Usually around $500 for 8 hours. I tend to tip as well.
How much you make as second photographer per wedding?
I believe in one of the comments...he pays 35-40 dollars per hour. Hope this gives you an idea of the second photographer.
8 hours????
Yes. That's generally the length of a typical wedding day for most photographers.
are you dual weilding a gfx 100s yet?
I’m not 😔😔 I don’t even have a single one at this point. 🙃🙃🙃
@@jbivphotography D:
While you say "if you work at best buy and don't like it, don't be a photographer" The big difference is you get to choose your clients. It works both ways, clients need to know who to trust and like to work with. in best buy you HAVE to take their shit and follow the companies crappy rules. I worked in a shop in the UK I loved it for the first couple of years, I was great seving people and having a laugh and got to know everyone in my town. But there were so many horrible people I just wish I didn't have to deal with every single day, multiple times a day. I never got to choose who to serve and that's why people usually hate it, or their boss is a C*** haha.
But I get it you're diggin at the shitty photographers who want a quick buck, I think it's great just to be my own boss, yes it's a lot of responsibility but your work and your Customer service should speak volumes and those attributes should let your client know to hire you and not some cheap joebloggs , you will have no problems.
Anyway, Saying that there's people I know in retail who have big dreams but are probably more suited to office jobs that involve an IQ of 12. :P
If your second photographer isn't doing what you need, then you hired poorly and/or managed badly. That is on you as the person running the wedding. It's hard being a manager and most people get into photography without really wanting that real responsibility, so they are terrible at it and surprised when they need to put effort into managing. And to me it's the failure of primaries to lift the industry, not the failure of some people who are apparently good enough at marketing to get jobs but not do the jobs well.
First!
Thanks for watching.