Well that was a surprise. I expected a pretty even lineup with extremely similar transmissions and similar weak spots. And although the basic designs are similar, what I did not expect was to see the Ford 10R to be better and beefier in every way. When the Allison came out in 2001 the name meant something and was responsible for a lot of GM truck sales. As time goes on the name Allison hardly means anything any more.
@Silent but Deadly ford definitely knows how to make a strong transmission, there's a reason you can buy a brand new siverado with a transmission made by Ford.
@@Prestiged_peck Thats is not an accurate statement. The Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family was developed in collaboration with the Ford Motor Company and is produced at the GM Powertrain facility in Romulus, Michigan. Ford took lead on engineering the 10 speed rear drive transmission while GM lead the enginerring on the 9 speed transaxle trasmission Ford and GM collaborated on. Ford and GM collaborated on transmissions 10 years ago as well.
@Jeramy Bennett then explain why I've seen transmissions in siverados with the Ford logo stamped on the side of the casing??? Typically ford only puts their logo on things they manufacture or assemble, or on parts that go to their cars.
@@Prestiged_peck You've seen 10 speed Ford transmissions in Silverado's? That means Camaro's have them as well since they got the 10 speed before the Silverado and GM is lying about manufacturing their 10 speed transmission in Michigan?
I'm a GM guy, but that looks like GM quietly saying they are not going to increase the output of the Duramax drastically anytime soon. I understand the Ford being built heavier because they advertise much higher horsepower and torque ratings than GM does. Sounds like GM designed that transmission around the limitations of the Duramax
I think they finally accepted that they don't need to overbuild for more power given how all their diesels spend the majority of their lives in their underpowered detuned mode due to some emissions compliance BS being out of spec. Why build for 500 Hp and 700 Ft/Lbs of torque when you know damn well the things going live their lives self-detuned to less than half that.
They built it to be worked on. Ford built it to last the lifetime of the truck.. listen to the last sentence of the video. Said its going to be "another 68 we need to get readyfor that workload" chevy builds them to break.. when they break ppl just buy another chevy like the next ones going to be different.. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
@@tpss3834 Too often corporate has no clue what the customer base wants. Years ago I worked as a service tech at a welding supply chain store and my whole department got shut down. Our national region had like 6 or 7 service points in it and they condensed it down to one, which pushed service and repair turnaround time from a few days on average to a few weeks. The actual explanation was that the execs thought that if they stopped servicing/made it really difficult with the older equipment, that would push the customers to buy new stuff whenever things broke down.
@tcmtech7515 justifying buying a new gmc/chevy/cadillac every few years doesnt help.. theres a reason ford is the #1 in sales. Not in profit. But in sales. Chevy actually made more in sales while selling almost 100,000 less trucks. Price gouged as well as needing repairs more often..
@@MrStaybrownTrue. But GM still labels them Allison to trick customers into thinking they’re getting a bulletproof tranny. One of many reasons not to trust GM.
No, no, the GM literature says it's an "Allison Branded", not built, because it's a GM transmission taken through Allison certification for life cycle duty. Meanwhile, while this teardown is great, it doesn't cover the material science part of the internals. A gear might look "beefy," but it might not be as strong, depending on the makeup of the metals used.
@reneeandchrisforever You know GM has a better quality record over the last 10 years than Toyota, according to JD Powers? Plus, I doubt Allison will just let their brand be trashed. I am not tribal, I own Ford, Chevrolet, and Toyota products. One has to use a product as designed and intended by the manufacturer.
my 18 Navigator 10r80 went out at 70K miles from CDF Drum slip issue. I was pretty easy on it, never towed anything rarely gave it full send. Dealer tried to replace parts but still gave issues and eventually replaced full transmission from crate. I like the way it feels but makes me nervous when I leave warranty land.
Yes, not nearly as robustly built as 10R in Fords F150/F250. I've also read Ford strengthened it's 10R further in '22+ trucks/vans. Nice. Have '24 F150 Tremor on order now.
Fords have just as many if not more problems. Ford still uses the CP4 fuel pump that has a 9% failure rate. Plus Ford transmissions have their own set of problems that aren't addressed here. I have a Duramax for towing but I'm a Toyota guy at heart. Just bought the duramax because it seemed like the best out of the big 3. Seems like the Ford and chevy have about the same rate of failure on trannys but chevy has a far superior fuel system and less Def/dpf problems. Ford has a better frame and axles but not enough to compensate for the fuel system. I had a 2015 f350 powerstroke that I sold at 235,000 miles and now have a 2020 duramax with 80,000 miles. Both trucks have treated me great.
Wow!!! I assumed a modern transmission was complicated but not to that extent. Almost 30K miles on my F250 10-speed without issues but the truck isn't being stressed as much as it's intended, towing an occasional 8-10thousand pounds.
Yes, absolutely. There's good reason near 75% of large & small companies buy Ford trucks/Transit vans. I personally have owned 3-4 F150s/F250s. Always served me very well. Good basic maintenance all they required. 💯
There are at least 4 variants of the Ford 10R series and 3 variants of the GM 10L series. Can I assume that you are comparing the Ford 10R140 (used in Ford SuperDuty) to the GM/Allison 10L100 (used in Silverado/Sierra HD)?
Either way the data shows Fords 10R is more robustly built. Not that Chevy/GMCs isnt good ..but i'm towing/hauling & using my expensive 4wd daily. Why would i buy anything other than an F150/F250?
I work in the oilfields and we use mainly ford but we also have dodge. The ford trucks hual our water transfer dragon pumps with john deer 6090s. They weigh close to 18k and we hual them all over the northwest from texas to north Dakota. We dont have any problems with our f250/450 fleet 6.7 PSD trucks. The dodge hold up pretty decent but we have gone through 2 transmissions and 1 transfer case. We all prefer the ford trucks. The oilfields will break your bias and feelings real quick ! GM is junk and dont last at all. We went through 3 transmissions and lots of limp mode issues and 1 engine and 4 rear axles. Get a ford or a dodge if you want something that will hold up
WOW I have had duramex last 500k miles I haul in the oilfield all the time im on my 2nd LML right now 394k with no major issues, way more curvy roads and steep hill stop and go over here never had trans issues I did change the fuel system on my first LML at 260k with zero issues a2ter that sold it with 506k miles on the clock. the current truck(16)is not deleted stock front end components also but the 2013 was deleted at 110k miles did front end work anftter an accident in ice
Exactly the opposite in the NW. We run a fleet of transit vehicles that put 300+ miles a day on. 20 2010 G3500 with 6.6L Duramax and 24 E450 2018 6.8L gas and 15 2019 F450 6.7L Diesel. No joke not one major failure with GM and all but 3 of the Fords have had either transmission failure, headgasket failure, overheating issues, or injection pump failure. Even the brakes last twice as long in our chevys. Same exact maintenance program.
@Bwanar1 transmission controllers ain't available but if you can find a way to make a stock 6.7 ECU run a 7.3 properly, then have at it! I'd rather put it behind a 460 or a cummins myself.
@@Prestiged_peck They have been around for years now. Powertrain Control Solutions PCS is what I was using 20 years ago and they already had plug-and-play units for everything that was off the shelf plus their units could be customized to run special stuff as well. Odds are they have something that works with 10-speed units all ready to go.
Doing extensive research on both of these transmissions I find a lot more complaints on the 10R over the 10L. Many issues with the 10R involve its use in the HD Gasser 7.3 "Godzilla" engine. Are the 10L failures you see in stock (unmodified) trucks? The 10R and 10L were not collaborative project between GM and Ford. They did collaborate on the 1/2 ton light duty 10 speeds.
That's what I'm finding to, I found 3 people complain their trans went out after digging through different duramax forums, which the causes were a faulty part from manufacture from the get go which made theirs go out around 1k miles, but yet ford's 10r a bunch of different forum pages come up with tons of people complaining how theirs have gone out after 5k miles and up. But yes exactly what's the mileage on these 10 speed Allison's going out? We're they behind stock or modified duramax's, ect. My 21 duramax dually almost has 40k miles on it and almost half are from towing heavy and the trans has been flawless and haven't had a single hiccup out of it yet.
@@dustintilton7920 My experience also. It does not surprise me that there was no response to my questions. Facts and data are all we have vs some guy in a shop somewhere with an opinion.
i wonder if your seeing more complaints for the 10R because theres a lot more of them than the 10L on the road. the failure rate may be the same percentage wize.
Ford trucks tend to be more common in fleet duty, where the same truck will see 30 different drivers in 5 years, they get beat to snot and stressed about 5 miles beyond their limits and the guys running them ignore the problems and flashing maintenance lights until the problem actively stops them from doing their job, and then they complain that their engine shouldn't need regular oil changes to run when they just ran through 4 oil change intervals without touching the drain plug or the filter. If you want to break something, hire it out to a west Texas oilfield fleet, they'll break it 16 ways to Sunday and then drink a beer atop the remains at 5 o'clock on friday
That’s weird, my transmission shop has said steer clear of any 10 speeds. They have a whole bunch of issues already. They did also mention, they’ve seen about 8 fords come in with issues, and only 3 GM’s this year alone already. It just seems like every new transmission that comes out has more issues than the last.
The anodizing has to do with surface hardness, maybe thats why the clutches are digging in. Reminds me of the un-anodized 68rfe valve bodies where the pistons would wear the bores.
Anodizing is insanely thin and only affects 10 to 25 microns deep into the metal. That's half the width of a human hair. If they were really worried about surface hardness, they could have simply chosen a different aluminum alloy or heat treatment process.
After just getting my truck 2020 F350 7.3 Tremor back from shop for the CDF replacement (update design with lip) I'm not feeling like I made a mistake getting a Ford instead of Chevy
One thing I can definitely see that this guy is glancing over is the fact the allison has a larger drum diameter and clutches. More teeth = stronger, not necessarily depth of said teeth. Larger diameter with more teeth is likely just as strong as the 10r140. I feel like this dude is biased and is just guessing about everything possible to make it seem like the ford is better than the allison. I don't know if he actually knows anything.
Interesting to see the differences with the Ford. Wish there was more video space available, not sure why people record while wasting most of the screen...
Yes it's just a nameplate now, GM owned Allison from 1928 and made the big mistake of selling it off in 2007. They should have kept it and told Ford and Dodge to build your own. Allison is owned by the Carlyle Group so now they are just Allison branded transmissions.
I cant speak entirely from experience but my 10R80 has a 8 inch cooler on it. Probably 12 on the 140s. Not sure if the chevy's come with coolers stock as well
@@gmfan6029idk. What I see on my 10R80 on average is 145-175 in the winter and 198 absolute max in 100F summer. New England for environment. 2018 F150 5.0 3.31 in 2WD empty highway driving on an overdue ULV fluid swap. 198F is what I see most southern dudes running. 210-215 is when people say to start watching what you tow and how you’re driving it
That’s such a loaded question. It’s all on how it’s used. A 16 year old kid with a bone stock super duty will smoke one before a 65 year old man does pulling his 13k pound camper to Florida. You can’t give an honest answer on that because the variables differ so vastly from case to case. Not to mention maintenance habits even being taken into consideration.
I'm a retired mechanic and when I started I was a die hard Chevy guy, by the end of the first year I had switched to Ford. Why because on average Ford's last longer with less issues.
I’d like to see you rebuild the automatic trans out of a late-model Focus or Fiesta. Bet I’ll be waiting a while. Oh, your a rail frother too? No shock there.
@@brandon18054 I grew up with the train tracks right behind my house ( ILLINOIS CENTRAL/ ILLINOIS CENTRAL GULF) and I didn't do trains rebuilds because I had a guy who guaranteed his work for 3 years
I've had 2 F550 company trucks with 10speeds shit the bed. A 2020 at around 24,000 miles, and now a 2022 at 30,000 miles. Both trucks run around 14-15,000lbs daily with Altec squirt booms mounted on the chassis.
You're comparing a super duty ford trans to a 1/2 ton GM trans? The 10L1000 Allison approved trans is way different from this one. Please compare apples to apples.
It's only the name gm bought Allison doesn't make it gm does that's why I bought a ford I have bought gm my whole life they have failed with transmission for a while now not to mention the ifs is junk too
The part of the transmission name which this video omits - the numbers after the "R" or "L" - indicate the capacity. At Ford the digits after the R multiplied by 10 is the maximum input to the transmission after the torque converter in newton-metres; a 10R140 rated for 1400 Nm (about 1000 lb-ft; Ford says 935 lb-ft in specs). At GM the numbers might not directly indicate torque capacity, but higher number mean higher capacity.
@@dundonrl Not even close. Try roughly the 1400 Nm suggested by the name. The earlier 6R140 has about the same torque capacity (as indicated by the "140"), and is rated by Ford at 935 lb-ft input.
@@brianb-p6586 So, the 2023 6.7 Power Stroke is only rated 1200 ft lbs of torque on paper? (it's rated by Ford for 500 hp and 1200 ft lbs/1627 nm torque). Either they are going to be eating A LOT of these 10R140's because the engine makes too much power, or it's rated to handle that power day in, day out for years!
Thanks for the video, very interesting. Re: '15 Chev. 3500 as a snowplow truck. Do you think the 10L would be sufficient or should I have installed more robust parts or convert the 10L to a 20(if that's possible)? Thank You!
A 2015 chevy would have a 6 speed Allison still I'm pretty sure, the 10 speeds didn't start coming in until '17+ with the lighter stuff, and at least for ford they didn't release the 10r140 until 2019.
@@Prestiged_peck Yeah...that's not what I was asking. I was asking Randy's Transmission. I wasn't looking for anything specific, just if they thought the Allison could last a few seasons under that kind of use.
He says in the video the F clutches on the Ford have a lot more friction material but do they? You can clearly see that the clutch rings are a way bigger diameter on the GM so even though the width of the material may be thinner, there is more material because of the bigger diameter. Also, the bigger diameter the less engagement speed the friction material has to absorb. The only ther thing is as a shop you do not know how these two transmissions were used (or abused) so some unfounded assumptions might be happening here.
Either way they are entirely different transmissions. The Ford 10R appears beefier & more robustly built. I've owned Ford & Chevy trucks. Both served me well. If i was large or small company using my trucks.. or vans daily for business it would only be Ford vehicles. Data shows Ford trucks /vans purchased 3>1 vs other brands by companies/rental /fleet buyers etc.
Is the 10L in the 1500 series trucks the same as the 2500+? And do you think it’ll be fine in them, mated to the 6.2 as they don’t tow as much and aren’t under as much strain? Just curious as to whether or not to buy a spare one to build up for my 2019 1500 Sierra or not. Edit: I do tow, maybe 7k lb trailer, and so far at 92k miles, it doesn’t have any issues. But if I can get ahead of it, and build a stronger one to swap in, then sell the stock one for a recoup of some expense, I may do that.
there is no way in hell an engine with more than a 2k rpm limit engine needs 10 gears.i can understand a big 80k lb. semi. but a pickup with 10 speeds is just a vehicle with more things to go WRONG!!! & THEY WILL.
Had a shift problem with my Ford, 28000 miles, dealer did Fords dance and it didn’t fix the problem, dealer kept pressing for a new transmission, Ford pretty much stop responding, left us hanging. Drove Fords for 35 years, but not any longer. They don’t want to stand behind their stuff.
Whomever is new here, the original 10 speed wasn't even a collab. Ford built the 10 speed in exchange for a 9 speed from GM that was for FWD. Ford wasn't happy with the 9 speed, so they removed a gear and that was what they used in the Explorer until they were made into a RWD platform.
The Explorer never moved passed the old 6spd until 2020 when they installed the 10spd. And Ford killed just about all of their FWD cars, so there was no need for the 9spd trans. Furthermore, the both GM and Ford have their own variants of the 10spd transmission.
I’m disappointed GM went to a 10 speed. The Allison 1000 6 speed was better. I own a 21 GMC HD with the 10L. From the inside the parts look beefier in the ford 10r. GMC trucks look way better cosmetically. Ford has a better interior and I believe is a heavier duty truck. GM HDs ride better and an overall better driving experience. Ford is built to pull the big heavy trailers. Glad I don’t need more than I have because driving a ford would be a hard pill to swallow. Fords also cost more which I would not pay more to drive a Ford. Both are fine trucks.
Gm should have used the new allison 9 speed in their trucks. Sadly Ill probably never get to work on one of those just stuck with this 10l1000 royal piece of cost cutting crap.
Not surprised at all by this..Ford for the most part has always built things stronger and beefier.I remember being in a parts store in the 80s and a guy came in to buy a flex plate for a turbo 350 chevy and it cost 25 bucks.The guy said that's pretty cheap and the parts guy said they are made out of tin or something like that and said had he been getting one for a ford he would be looking at close to 100 bucks because they were steel.Lesson learned.Just something as simple as a flex plate being made stronger says alot.
Hahahaha!! I can’t believe this guy has a transmission shop!! Ford and GM codeveloped the 10 speed transmissions in the 1/2 ton trucks. The 10L1000 in the heavy duty trucks was designed by Allison has no relation to the Ford transmission. Pretty laughable that they don’t know that.
@MrStaybrown The 10L1000 is an Allison designed transmission. GM struck a deal with Allison where GM will produce the 10L1000 for the 2500 trucks in house and Allison will produce the exact same transmission for the 4500/5500/6500 trucks in their facilities.
We can tell your a ford guy but I've seen way less chevy 10speeds go bad...probably half that I do is ford the other half is split with dodge and chevy
You need to tell chevy guys this because they think GM makes the ford transmission and ford made the GM transmission. Correct me if I'm wrong but GM and Ford worked on a ten speed together but Ford didn't like GM's designs so Ford scrap it and re-engineered it to their own specifications. Correct?
Great video man, but in my honest opinion, if you require a crane to lift a medium-sized object that’s just over a hundred pounds as opposed to picking it up yourself, maybe you could benefit from lifting some weights on your off time. I’m all for ‘working smarter not harder,’ but a man should be able to lift his own body weight without help, and I’m guessing you weigh more than a hundred pounds.
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Well that was a surprise. I expected a pretty even lineup with extremely similar transmissions and similar weak spots. And although the basic designs are similar, what I did not expect was to see the Ford 10R to be better and beefier in every way. When the Allison came out in 2001 the name meant something and was responsible for a lot of GM truck sales. As time goes on the name Allison hardly means anything any more.
Even the old ford torque shift was better than the Allisons
@Silent but Deadly ford definitely knows how to make a strong transmission, there's a reason you can buy a brand new siverado with a transmission made by Ford.
@@Prestiged_peck Thats is not an accurate statement. The Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family was developed in collaboration with the Ford Motor Company and is produced at the GM Powertrain facility in Romulus, Michigan. Ford took lead on engineering the 10 speed rear drive transmission while GM lead the enginerring on the 9 speed transaxle trasmission Ford and GM collaborated on. Ford and GM collaborated on transmissions 10 years ago as well.
@Jeramy Bennett then explain why I've seen transmissions in siverados with the Ford logo stamped on the side of the casing??? Typically ford only puts their logo on things they manufacture or assemble, or on parts that go to their cars.
@@Prestiged_peck You've seen 10 speed Ford transmissions in Silverado's? That means Camaro's have them as well since they got the 10 speed before the Silverado and GM is lying about manufacturing their 10 speed transmission in Michigan?
I'm a GM guy, but that looks like GM quietly saying they are not going to increase the output of the Duramax drastically anytime soon. I understand the Ford being built heavier because they advertise much higher horsepower and torque ratings than GM does. Sounds like GM designed that transmission around the limitations of the Duramax
I think they finally accepted that they don't need to overbuild for more power given how all their diesels spend the majority of their lives in their underpowered detuned mode due to some emissions compliance BS being out of spec.
Why build for 500 Hp and 700 Ft/Lbs of torque when you know damn well the things going live their lives self-detuned to less than half that.
They built it to be worked on. Ford built it to last the lifetime of the truck.. listen to the last sentence of the video. Said its going to be "another 68 we need to get readyfor that workload" chevy builds them to break.. when they break ppl just buy another chevy like the next ones going to be different.. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
@@tpss3834 Too often corporate has no clue what the customer base wants.
Years ago I worked as a service tech at a welding supply chain store and my whole department got shut down.
Our national region had like 6 or 7 service points in it and they condensed it down to one, which pushed service and repair turnaround time from a few days on average to a few weeks.
The actual explanation was that the execs thought that if they stopped servicing/made it really difficult with the older equipment, that would push the customers to buy new stuff whenever things broke down.
@tcmtech7515 justifying buying a new gmc/chevy/cadillac every few years doesnt help.. theres a reason ford is the #1 in sales. Not in profit. But in sales. Chevy actually made more in sales while selling almost 100,000 less trucks. Price gouged as well as needing repairs more often..
@@tpss3834actually gm is number 1 in truck sales.
That 10L80 is not the HD version that’s put on 2500/3500 trucks. The 10L80 HD trans are pretty much identical to the 10R
The new 10 speed Allison really isn’t even an Allison. The 6 speed before was truly an Allison.
Yes .
Allison even says they don't build a 10 speed for pickup trucks, just the 6 speed, which is the Allison 1000.
@@MrStaybrownTrue. But GM still labels them Allison to trick customers into thinking they’re getting a bulletproof tranny. One of many reasons not to trust GM.
No, no, the GM literature says it's an "Allison Branded", not built, because it's a GM transmission taken through Allison certification for life cycle duty.
Meanwhile, while this teardown is great, it doesn't cover the material science part of the internals. A gear might look "beefy," but it might not be as strong, depending on the makeup of the metals used.
@@mbukukanyau Would you trust GM to keep the standards of Allison or take their usual cheap short cuts to save money. I know what I’d bet on.
@reneeandchrisforever You know GM has a better quality record over the last 10 years than Toyota, according to JD Powers? Plus, I doubt Allison will just let their brand be trashed.
I am not tribal, I own Ford, Chevrolet, and Toyota products.
One has to use a product as designed and intended by the manufacturer.
I love seeing the insides of these thing! Thanks.
my 18 Navigator 10r80 went out at 70K miles from CDF Drum slip issue. I was pretty easy on it, never towed anything rarely gave it full send. Dealer tried to replace parts but still gave issues and eventually replaced full transmission from crate. I like the way it feels but makes me nervous when I leave warranty land.
Ford finally has a new CDF from that won't slip the bushing any more
Just had 10L #2 installed on my ‘22 Chevy 2500. 48k at swap, so much for the Allison brand name
It's clearly an inferior transmission now 😭
Yes, not nearly as robustly built as 10R in Fords F150/F250. I've also read Ford strengthened it's 10R further in '22+ trucks/vans. Nice. Have '24 F150 Tremor on order now.
I like Chevy /GMC ..but i buy Ford trucks. All they need is good basic maintenance. Never let me dwn.
Fords have just as many if not more problems. Ford still uses the CP4 fuel pump that has a 9% failure rate. Plus Ford transmissions have their own set of problems that aren't addressed here.
I have a Duramax for towing but I'm a Toyota guy at heart. Just bought the duramax because it seemed like the best out of the big 3. Seems like the Ford and chevy have about the same rate of failure on trannys but chevy has a far superior fuel system and less Def/dpf problems. Ford has a better frame and axles but not enough to compensate for the fuel system.
I had a 2015 f350 powerstroke that I sold at 235,000 miles and now have a 2020 duramax with 80,000 miles. Both trucks have treated me great.
The 6.7 version of this transmission is a beast. I know the 7.3 10 speed has some different clutches and a converter.
Absolutely truth. 💯 Only Ford trucks for my company & myself. Transit 250 vans also!
Wow!!! I assumed a modern transmission was complicated but not to that extent.
Almost 30K miles on my F250 10-speed without issues but the truck isn't being stressed as much as it's intended, towing an occasional 8-10thousand pounds.
My problems started at 38k…. Then it shit the bed
My duramax tows 14k pounds most of its life and its at 80k with no problems.
Great video! Seems like everything’s going to that ZF design
Thank you very much for this video, and the information you guys put out.
Yes, absolutely. There's good reason near 75% of large & small companies buy Ford trucks/Transit vans. I personally have owned 3-4 F150s/F250s. Always served me very well. Good basic maintenance all they required. 💯
There are at least 4 variants of the Ford 10R series and 3 variants of the GM 10L series. Can I assume that you are comparing the Ford 10R140 (used in Ford SuperDuty) to the GM/Allison 10L100 (used in Silverado/Sierra HD)?
Either way the data shows Fords 10R is more robustly built. Not that Chevy/GMCs isnt good ..but i'm towing/hauling & using my expensive 4wd daily. Why would i buy anything other than an F150/F250?
@@Davido50cp4
Nope the 10L in this video is the 10L80 which isn’t even what’s in my 24 3500
I work in the oilfields and we use mainly ford but we also have dodge. The ford trucks hual our water transfer dragon pumps with john deer 6090s. They weigh close to 18k and we hual them all over the northwest from texas to north Dakota. We dont have any problems with our f250/450 fleet 6.7 PSD trucks. The dodge hold up pretty decent but we have gone through 2 transmissions and 1 transfer case. We all prefer the ford trucks. The oilfields will break your bias and feelings real quick ! GM is junk and dont last at all. We went through 3 transmissions and lots of limp mode issues and 1 engine and 4 rear axles. Get a ford or a dodge if you want something that will hold up
WOW I have had duramex last 500k miles I haul in the oilfield all the time im on my 2nd LML right now 394k with no major issues, way more curvy roads and steep hill stop and go over here never had trans issues I did change the fuel system on my first LML at 260k with zero issues a2ter that sold it with 506k miles on the clock. the current truck(16)is not deleted stock front end components also but the 2013 was deleted at 110k miles did front end work anftter an accident in ice
@@jeremybroderick9465 they're talking about brand new trucks, older duramaxes, especially the pre-DEF models, were king of the hill by far.
Exactly the opposite in the NW. We run a fleet of transit vehicles that put 300+ miles a day on. 20 2010 G3500 with 6.6L Duramax and 24 E450 2018 6.8L gas and 15 2019 F450 6.7L Diesel. No joke not one major failure with GM and all but 3 of the Fords have had either transmission failure, headgasket failure, overheating issues, or injection pump failure. Even the brakes last twice as long in our chevys. Same exact maintenance program.
Where trucks are actually worked
Your very lucky the GMs don't hold up as well usually I'm a logger in western Montana and F series is the truck of choice period out here
That Ford 10R is impressive. Any way to adapt this one to go in one of the older Ford 7.3 SD trucks? What a combination I would have then!
Bell housing and crankshaft adapter and an aftermarket transmission controller will put that behind anything you want.
@@tcmtech7515 Awesome. Looks like I need to talk to my transmission builder. ;-)
@Bwanar1 transmission controllers ain't available but if you can find a way to make a stock 6.7 ECU run a 7.3 properly, then have at it! I'd rather put it behind a 460 or a cummins myself.
@@Prestiged_peck They have been around for years now.
Powertrain Control Solutions PCS is what I was using 20 years ago and they already had plug-and-play units for everything that was off the shelf plus their units could be customized to run special stuff as well.
Odds are they have something that works with 10-speed units all ready to go.
@@tcmtech751520 years ago a 6 speed was space age
Doing extensive research on both of these transmissions I find a lot more complaints on the 10R over the 10L. Many issues with the 10R involve its use in the HD Gasser 7.3 "Godzilla" engine. Are the 10L failures you see in stock (unmodified) trucks?
The 10R and 10L were not collaborative project between GM and Ford. They did collaborate on the 1/2 ton light duty 10 speeds.
That's what I'm finding to, I found 3 people complain their trans went out after digging through different duramax forums, which the causes were a faulty part from manufacture from the get go which made theirs go out around 1k miles, but yet ford's 10r a bunch of different forum pages come up with tons of people complaining how theirs have gone out after 5k miles and up.
But yes exactly what's the mileage on these 10 speed Allison's going out? We're they behind stock or modified duramax's, ect. My 21 duramax dually almost has 40k miles on it and almost half are from towing heavy and the trans has been flawless and haven't had a single hiccup out of it yet.
@@dustintilton7920 My experience also. It does not surprise me that there was no response to my questions. Facts and data are all we have vs some guy in a shop somewhere with an opinion.
i wonder if your seeing more complaints for the 10R because theres a lot more of them than the 10L on the road. the failure rate may be the same percentage wize.
Ford trucks tend to be more common in fleet duty, where the same truck will see 30 different drivers in 5 years, they get beat to snot and stressed about 5 miles beyond their limits and the guys running them ignore the problems and flashing maintenance lights until the problem actively stops them from doing their job, and then they complain that their engine shouldn't need regular oil changes to run when they just ran through 4 oil change intervals without touching the drain plug or the filter.
If you want to break something, hire it out to a west Texas oilfield fleet, they'll break it 16 ways to Sunday and then drink a beer atop the remains at 5 o'clock on friday
They also collaborated on the HD version. Dude, look at the video and tell me those weren’t designed from the same basic design
That’s weird, my transmission shop has said steer clear of any 10 speeds. They have a whole bunch of issues already. They did also mention, they’ve seen about 8 fords come in with issues, and only 3 GM’s this year alone already. It just seems like every new transmission that comes out has more issues than the last.
It's transmissions 2022 and older. The CDF drum was redesigned 2023 and no longer has any problems
@@100pyatt is this for both manufacturers?
Thanks for the info, it confirms what I suspected all along.
Myself as well. Also why owner of company i'm w/ won't consider *any* other trucks or vans unless they're Fords. Makes sense!
It’s no wonder Chevy still uses the 6 speed in the 4500+ trucks.
The anodizing has to do with surface hardness, maybe thats why the clutches are digging in. Reminds me of the un-anodized 68rfe valve bodies where the pistons would wear the bores.
Anodizing is insanely thin and only affects 10 to 25 microns deep into the metal. That's half the width of a human hair. If they were really worried about surface hardness, they could have simply chosen a different aluminum alloy or heat treatment process.
After just getting my truck 2020 F350 7.3 Tremor back from shop for the CDF replacement (update design with lip) I'm not feeling like I made a mistake getting a Ford instead of Chevy
How much did that run you and was it under warranty?
I need to do the same thing
One thing I can definitely see that this guy is glancing over is the fact the allison has a larger drum diameter and clutches. More teeth = stronger, not necessarily depth of said teeth. Larger diameter with more teeth is likely just as strong as the 10r140. I feel like this dude is biased and is just guessing about everything possible to make it seem like the ford is better than the allison. I don't know if he actually knows anything.
Did you notice how the GM clutch plates were digging into the case? Proof's kinda in the pudding.
Interesting to see the differences with the Ford. Wish there was more video space available, not sure why people record while wasting most of the screen...
What is Allison about the 10L? The nameplate GM bought from Allison?
Yes it's just a nameplate now, GM owned Allison from 1928 and made the big mistake of selling it off in 2007. They should have kept it and told Ford and Dodge to build your own. Allison is owned by the Carlyle Group so now they are just Allison branded transmissions.
That GM transmission identifies as an Allison !!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Why does ford 10 speed seem to run higher temperatures?
I cant speak entirely from experience but my 10R80 has a 8 inch cooler on it. Probably 12 on the 140s. Not sure if the chevy's come with coolers stock as well
@anthonys3906 gm must have better cooling system. I asked why ford transmission runs hotter?
@@gmfan6029idk. What I see on my 10R80 on average is 145-175 in the winter and 198 absolute max in 100F summer. New England for environment. 2018 F150 5.0 3.31 in 2WD empty highway driving on an overdue ULV fluid swap. 198F is what I see most southern dudes running. 210-215 is when people say to start watching what you tow and how you’re driving it
Cooling thermostat built into valve body?
So far we’ve had trouble with both
How many miles are you expecting the 10L to last before it fails?
That’s such a loaded question. It’s all on how it’s used. A 16 year old kid with a bone stock super duty will smoke one before a 65 year old man does pulling his 13k pound camper to Florida. You can’t give an honest answer on that because the variables differ so vastly from case to case. Not to mention maintenance habits even being taken into consideration.
@@ChaseLandMgmt exactly it comes down to how it treated and how well its maintained.
I'm a retired mechanic and when I started I was a die hard Chevy guy, by the end of the first year I had switched to Ford. Why because on average Ford's last longer with less issues.
What’s weird is Ford has had the most issues the past 4 years. Their Super Duty 10 speeds are having a lot of issues. Very strange…
I’d like to see you rebuild the automatic trans out of a late-model Focus or Fiesta. Bet I’ll be waiting a while. Oh, your a rail frother too? No shock there.
@@brandon18054 I grew up with the train tracks right behind my house ( ILLINOIS CENTRAL/ ILLINOIS CENTRAL GULF) and I didn't do trains rebuilds because I had a guy who guaranteed his work for 3 years
The 10R140 is also having troubles with the bushing in the CDF drum moving, causing failures.
I've had 2 F550 company trucks with 10speeds shit the bed. A 2020 at around 24,000 miles, and now a 2022 at 30,000 miles. Both trucks run around 14-15,000lbs daily with Altec squirt booms mounted on the chassis.
I believe the F550 10spd is designated the 10R140.
My son is a service tech large rental co they ordered 5 new DMAX 5500. Ford's having to many issues.
You're comparing a super duty ford trans to a 1/2 ton GM trans? The 10L1000 Allison approved trans is way different from this one. Please compare apples to apples.
It's only the name gm bought Allison doesn't make it gm does that's why I bought a ford I have bought gm my whole life they have failed with transmission for a while now not to mention the ifs is junk too
@@joecameron3512Gms transmission is just fine. Also calling IFS a joke when Ford has a death wobble from the factory is hilarious.
Superduty? The 10r80 is in mustangs, F-150, Ranger, Expedition.
So how much torque will that 10R handle
Well, from the factory at least 1200 ft lbs!
The part of the transmission name which this video omits - the numbers after the "R" or "L" - indicate the capacity. At Ford the digits after the R multiplied by 10 is the maximum input to the transmission after the torque converter in newton-metres; a 10R140 rated for 1400 Nm (about 1000 lb-ft; Ford says 935 lb-ft in specs). At GM the numbers might not directly indicate torque capacity, but higher number mean higher capacity.
@@dundonrl Not even close. Try roughly the 1400 Nm suggested by the name. The earlier 6R140 has about the same torque capacity (as indicated by the "140"), and is rated by Ford at 935 lb-ft input.
@@brianb-p6586 So, the 2023 6.7 Power Stroke is only rated 1200 ft lbs of torque on paper? (it's rated by Ford for 500 hp and 1200 ft lbs/1627 nm torque). Either they are going to be eating A LOT of these 10R140's because the engine makes too much power, or it's rated to handle that power day in, day out for years!
@@dundonrlthe 10R140 is rated for 1400 Lb-Ft ✅
Great info!
Can you replace the 10L with a 10r in a gm pickup?
anything is possible just depends on how deep your wallet is. Cheaper to just rebuild it heavier
Thanks for the video, very interesting. Re: '15 Chev. 3500 as a snowplow truck. Do you think the 10L would be sufficient or should I have installed more robust parts or convert the 10L to a 20(if that's possible)? Thank You!
A 2015 chevy would have a 6 speed Allison still I'm pretty sure, the 10 speeds didn't start coming in until '17+ with the lighter stuff, and at least for ford they didn't release the 10r140 until 2019.
@@Prestiged_peck Yeah...that's not what I was asking. I was asking Randy's Transmission. I wasn't looking for anything specific, just if they thought the Allison could last a few seasons under that kind of use.
Good day. Is it possible to change 5R110 to 10R140? Is the bell the same?
Thank you for video. I know now want truck, I will be buying.
The 10R is a little clunky but she's stout for sure
He says in the video the F clutches on the Ford have a lot more friction material but do they? You can clearly see that the clutch rings are a way bigger diameter on the GM so even though the width of the material may be thinner, there is more material because of the bigger diameter. Also, the bigger diameter the less engagement speed the friction material has to absorb. The only ther thing is as a shop you do not know how these two transmissions were used (or abused) so some unfounded assumptions might be happening here.
Either way they are entirely different transmissions. The Ford 10R appears beefier & more robustly built. I've owned Ford & Chevy trucks. Both served me well. If i was large or small company using my trucks.. or vans daily for business it would only be Ford vehicles. Data shows Ford trucks /vans purchased 3>1 vs other brands by companies/rental /fleet buyers etc.
the Allison came out in 2019 right? The obvious part is the shop is rebuilding both brands.
Is the 10L in the 1500 series trucks the same as the 2500+?
And do you think it’ll be fine in them, mated to the 6.2 as they don’t tow as much and aren’t under as much strain?
Just curious as to whether or not to buy a spare one to build up for my 2019 1500 Sierra or not.
Edit: I do tow, maybe 7k lb trailer, and so far at 92k miles, it doesn’t have any issues. But if I can get ahead of it, and build a stronger one to swap in, then sell the stock one for a recoup of some expense, I may do that.
However, anodizing does not increase the strength of the aluminum object.
Is there any stand alone units for the 10r
What's funny is ford and chevy both worked together for these transmissions...but I've seen a hell of a lot more 10r come threw than chevy
sorry for my poor grammar. is GM transmission i winner here ir they both have the same quality
Consensus from the video was the Ford looks to be of higher quality.
there is no way in hell an engine with more than a 2k rpm limit engine needs 10 gears.i can understand a big 80k lb. semi. but a pickup with 10 speeds is just a vehicle with more things to go WRONG!!! & THEY WILL.
Ford is the top dog in diesels! Thanks for the info
Yes they certainly proved their "top dog" status with the 6.0, 6.4 and the 6.7 with the excellent CP4.2.
**diesel transmissions**
They give you a dog to keep you company waiting for tow truck
Lol fix or repair daily
Had a shift problem with my Ford, 28000 miles, dealer did Fords dance and it didn’t fix the problem, dealer kept pressing for a new transmission, Ford pretty much stop responding, left us hanging.
Drove Fords for 35 years, but not any longer. They don’t want to stand behind their stuff.
The ford 10r80 and gm 10l100 is the trans they collaborated on. Not the 10r140 and 10L1000.
Ford guy here. But, Ford will use plastic, until they realize, they cant!
They worked together when engineering the 10speed is what is was told form Ford
They worked together on the light duty 10 speeds.
They may have and Allison did not build it.
Does anyone make a high capacity filter for the 10L1000?
Whats the “New 68” ?
He's referring to the 68RFE in the Ram's that have a lot of internet armchair mechanic assumptions.
Whomever is new here, the original 10 speed wasn't even a collab. Ford built the 10 speed in exchange for a 9 speed from GM that was for FWD. Ford wasn't happy with the 9 speed, so they removed a gear and that was what they used in the Explorer until they were made into a RWD platform.
The Explorer never moved passed the old 6spd until 2020 when they installed the 10spd. And Ford killed just about all of their FWD cars, so there was no need for the 9spd trans. Furthermore, the both GM and Ford have their own variants of the 10spd transmission.
@@hellkitty1014 The 8 speed was used for the Edge. My bad
GM and Ford together designed the 10r140 so no need to pick sides
I’m disappointed GM went to a 10 speed. The Allison 1000 6 speed was better. I own a 21 GMC HD with the 10L. From the inside the parts look beefier in the ford 10r. GMC trucks look way better cosmetically. Ford has a better interior and I believe is a heavier duty truck. GM HDs ride better and an overall better driving experience. Ford is built to pull the big heavy trailers. Glad I don’t need more than I have because driving a ford would be a hard pill to swallow. Fords also cost more which I would not pay more to drive a Ford. Both are fine trucks.
But why film in portrait?
I'm in favor of bringing the 6 speed back
That clutch pack is only 50 pounds lighter than me 😬
The 3 piece Allison 5 and 6 speed transmission is better than that allison 10 junk
Well, one company would rather make friends and the other is All about profits !
Gm should have used the new allison 9 speed in their trucks. Sadly Ill probably never get to work on one of those just stuck with this 10l1000 royal piece of cost cutting crap.
GM and Ford co-developed the 10 speed trans that’s in the 1500’s and SUV’s. How the fuck do you not know this?
Sooo its not an allison
No, it is not.
Allison says, "Do not bring it to them. Instead, take it to a GM dealer."
So not one piece is the same ?
Crazy how much plastic is in modern parts, and also how many excuses people make to try to justify it. "Hurr durr it's lighter". F plastic.
Its funny how this guy points out all the things he thinks is better in the ford vs chevy yet he is tearing the ford trans down due to failure. 😂
Brand loyalty is so crazy, literally just “yours is a piece of shit” for doing a repair on a Chevy that they did on their ford at the same mileage
Not surprised at all by this..Ford for the most part has always built things stronger and beefier.I remember being in a parts store in the 80s and a guy came in to buy a flex plate for a turbo 350 chevy and it cost 25 bucks.The guy said that's pretty cheap and the parts guy said they are made out of tin or something like that and said had he been getting one for a ford he would be looking at close to 100 bucks because they were steel.Lesson learned.Just something as simple as a flex plate being made stronger says alot.
Ya it says GM made millions and Ford made thousands. Simple economics and says nothing about the quality.
That is why I would not buy a chevy or even a Ram.
Doesn't scare me, my truck will be gas.
Hahahaha!! I can’t believe this guy has a transmission shop!! Ford and GM codeveloped the 10 speed transmissions in the 1/2 ton trucks. The 10L1000 in the heavy duty trucks was designed by Allison has no relation to the Ford transmission. Pretty laughable that they don’t know that.
It was designed by GM with oversight by Allison. Allison will not work on this 10 speed because it is not a Allison 1000.
@MrStaybrown The 10L1000 is an Allison designed transmission. GM struck a deal with Allison where GM will produce the 10L1000 for the 2500 trucks in house and Allison will produce the exact same transmission for the 4500/5500/6500 trucks in their facilities.
Smart people do things. Other people go ahead and do things.
from all the complaints about the 10r i’m hearing i think your being very biased in your review
Classic gm quality 😂😂
We can tell your a ford guy but I've seen way less chevy 10speeds go bad...probably half that I do is ford the other half is split with dodge and chevy
The Dude....
You need to tell chevy guys this because they think GM makes the ford transmission and ford made the GM transmission. Correct me if I'm wrong but GM and Ford worked on a ten speed together but Ford didn't like GM's designs so Ford scrap it and re-engineered it to their own specifications. Correct?
Like precision transmission is Texas . But not as skilled. 😂
I have 2019 with the 10 speed and this the biggest piece of crap Ford made.
looks like a ford commercial
Allison 1000 6 speed rules the roost
The only true Allison's are the Allison 1000's. 5 and 6 speed.
@@MrStaybrown
Yes you are correct I forgot about the 5 speed🤦🏿♂️
@@David-yy7lb the modern GM 10 speed only identifies as an Allison. 🤣
It's a Chevy design it but ford refuse it
Great video man, but in my honest opinion, if you require a crane to lift a medium-sized object that’s just over a hundred pounds as opposed to picking it up yourself, maybe you could benefit from lifting some weights on your off time. I’m all for ‘working smarter not harder,’ but a man should be able to lift his own body weight without help, and I’m guessing you weigh more than a hundred pounds.
Great info!