Not a fan of long info vids but it didn’t even cross my mind to ff or give up on yours. Your articulation of the numerous complex and largely contingent settings within these slicers as well as your visuals are incredibly valuable. The trial and error I’ve been going thru with PETG has been fruitless, frustrating and discouraging. The comprehensive context you provide here has filled so many voids in my mental “decision tree”. The speed at which you communicate all of this and jargon you use is also supportive to someone who isn’t new but no where near experienced which allows me time to digest and copy info I find I need to apply whereas with other videos I’m constantly trying to rewind multiple times and replay at various points. And replay. And replay. And am still left scratching my head. I so appreciate your approach and hope you continue- you standout exponentially among the rest! Thank you THANK YOU!
Thought I'd leave a message here because of how helpful your PETG videos have been. I've been printing with PETG for a couple of years now and have never had particularly wonderful prints, always with stringing and blobs despite drying filament (and having dry boxes). After following the same steps you had taken I'm now printing beautiful PETG prints with only extremely thin stringing (like spiderweb thin) which is passable for me personally as that's pretty easy to remove with a heat gun. Thank you for the videos!! You rock!!
We have tested hundreds of materials every year for consistency in color, extrusion, moisture, tolerance, etc.. The three manufacturers that have stood out and given the most consistent results are direct purchases from Prusament, 3DXtech, and Atomic Filament.
Hi daniel, I've commented on another video of yours but just wanted to reiterate the content you're producing for the adventurer 4 is second to none. Ordering a second one is a pretty extreme form of printer tuning lol
I appreciate the work you put into this. Very concise presentation of complex issues and your voice is comfortable to listen to. I just got my first Ender Neo and ran a roll of PLA and a half roll of PetG through it so far working on a prototype of an invention. Thanks.
Petg is very sensitive to ambient air temp in around the fan intake. Fan speed should be reduced in colder rooms. Also the when printing higher prints off the hot build plate the intake air gets colder so the cooling increases at the same fan speed. So getting a warm stable air temp around the printer is a good starting point.
The key to printing PETG is to get your flow rate absolutely dialled in. To do this you need to calibrate your esteps or rotational distance if you use Klipper. Then you need to print a single wall hollow cube and compare the wall thickness to the one requested in your slicer. Walls to thick, over extrusion, reduce your flow rate. To thin, then it's the opposite. Look up teaching techs guide for printer tuning on this. Flow rate will need to be tuned for each roll of filament due to variations in diameter between rolls effecting extrusion volume. Estep and flow rate calibration is critical for PETG as over extrusion is what causes the filament to build up on the nozzle over time causing stinging, layer shifts and small features failing due to the build up of filament on the nozzle interfering with the extrusion path. After that it's a matter of tuning your retraction and your part cooling relative to the print speed. Getting your cooling right is also very important. To low and you make PETG more prone to string. To high and as the extrusion is layed down it will have a whitish haze. It should be glossy. Translucent PETG is good for tuning cooling as it looses it's translucency with over cooling. In my experience coasting made things worse and I just used wipe. I also use S3d. You should also tune your bridge setting as this will make a huge difference to your overhangs. I think mine are set to 10mm3 area, 2.00 expansion, 95% flow, 100% speed. This works well but could probably be improved upon. PETG has poor bridging properties so you need to set your bridge trigger low which is why mine is at 10mm3. Useful for 1st layer top with low infill percentages. I might just upload my S3d profile so you can compare. Way to much to type here.
Ashley … I must commend you .. you know your stuff , the one thing that petg adds to its complexity is at certain temperatures it operates in an amorphous state of flow and at higher temps it flips to a crystalline state if flow .. amorphous state of flow is like syrup crystalline is like water . Rheology , the study of plastic flow is a topic that is widely known in the injection molding industry which I suspect you may know about ..
I followed the same guide it was very good. However, the extrusion amount (flow in cura) I adjusted this to have the right thickness of a single wall that my slicer says should be the output.. after that adjustment (which went from 100% to 86) found my first layer to have gaps, a sign of under extrusion again. & yes my z offset has been tuned before all these. More tinkering I’m guessing.
@@daveoutlaw9890 Thank you but I'm just a hobbyist. My knowledge comes from observation and problem solving. I will look into rheology, it sounds interesting.
@@DSPrints_ yeah cura is a funny one. I spent a couple of days attempting to tune petg in cura on 2 seperate occasion and I could never get a result like in S3D. Could not tune out stringing or improper printing of small feature. Cura has some things going on behind the curtain that prevent you having full control over what is happening I suspect. I use super slicer now. Haven't printed petg with it. Haven't printed petg for a while actually. Not since I built my voron 2.4 and am able to reliably print ABS.
I have been trying to learn PETG (kinda hard not to play with all the different material options hahahahah) I've been having grief with flashprint and I might have to give superslicer a shot Between this and your other videos, your advice has been so helpful setting up my profiles properly Especially with PETG - but across the board great work man So glad the algorithm recommended you - underrated as hell
Thanks for the informative video. I've been 3D printing since we had to build our own 3D printers because they weren't consumer items, but I've only recently started to print in PETG. As the video was wrapping up I was heading to the comments section to suggest that you put your optimized settings in the video description but that's where the video showed the slicer settings across many screens so we can pause the video and see all of the slicer settings.
Ordered my first spool of PETG today and will be tweaking my printer so I can print a helmet chin mount for my GoPro. I have an Ender 3 Pro, Microswiss Direct drive, MS full metal hot end 4.2.2 board, BLT etc. Normally runs fine but I'm thinking I'm in for a bit of a learning curve lol
Thank you! You're the first person i've seen who really elaborates on experiments rather than giving basic advices. Will try some of that on my Dreamer. Unfortunately, Dreamers have only one cooling choice: 100% or none (as well as several other lacks) but your video is enough to get started. Also, never heard of Superslicer, shall give it a go.
@@grantsautoessentials9584 I actually printed some Esun which I didn’t mention in my video and those failed as well on my first printer. I haven’t tried it on the brand new one yet
In the temperature section you talk about that odd diagonal blobs that is being produced. And then you moved onto the retraction settings. Was that the cure to removing that diagonal blob stairway?
Some printers have the extruder drive in the print head and don't suffer from the Bowden tube loading. Of course, that adds to the weight of the print head assembly, which causes its own issues. I think that the main takeaway is that a printer that is well set up will print better. But excellent analysis.
I'm sure the black pigments on PETG have something to do with all this. I'vr tried eSun, 3DJake and Extrud3r and I get perfect prints with all colors but black. Thank you very much for the video, will do another retraction testing session today.
i managed to print a 3d benchy in 30 minutes in petg without stringing. I didnt want to sacrifice speed so the trick i found was to change the order in which the inner/outer layers get printed as well as the outer wall speed. I also use the spiral manoeuvre and minimal z hop as a means to "clean" or "wipe" the extruder. Low printing temperature at 220 and part cooling fan.
Just for another point of reference. I have printed about 50 spools of PETG filament over the past two years on two different printers. Switching between whichever was cheapest at the time between Overture, Polymaker, Duramic, Inland and eSun. Of those, eSun seemed to absorb the most moisture. But all have worked well for me once I had my printer working properly. I wouldn't personally buy anything cheaper than those brands and I really didn't like the Matterhackers Build Series PETG. For me the biggest differences were ditching the PTFE lined Creality clone hotend with a bowden tube and moving to a direct drive and an all metal hotend. And second, making absolutely sure my first layer was good, not too close and not too far. Too close and you end up with lots of blobs and problems with later layers because of the pressure build up in the nozzle. Also, I use 100% fan after the first layer.
I also got good results installing the Creality Sprite Pro direct drive head to my Ender 3 Pro. Now the only thing that seems to matter when printing PETG is keeping my retraction under 1mm so it doesn't pull the filament out of the melt zone.
Super well put together video. I love finding these types of tests where someone does everything. I just picked up the Adventurer 5M a month or so ago. Loving it so far, but stock settings for PETG are not working. I'm going to try a few of these things. I found with PLA, I needed 240F, probably because the thing moves so fast. Not sure if you've picked up an AD5M, but would highly recommend it. Would love to see your analysis on some filaments with that machine. Subscribed !!
What I would like to know is if a expensive hardened nozzle is a more worth while purchase over a larger number of ok but cheap brass nozzles? Witch would serve me best in the long run, manny and cheap or fiew high quality/hardened and expensive, do you really get what you pay for or is it a rip of? Is there a reason to ever buy a none hardened nozzle?
Been running Anycubic Mega X for size and if you add a dual gear or mod them they are great cheap printers. I have clear petg dialed for large items and thin wall settings at 233c The fast way to test is use support lines holding a hangmans post the single layer support is max transparency on petg so adjust as it builds with heat settings watching the walls..
Fine tuning is everything, yet sometimes i wonder what´s going on here. I have a Sidewinder X2 and use Redline PETG which costs about 27 € per Kilo. I never had bad stringing or anything that many people frequently experience. I calibrated my printer once and besides some tweaks i had to make due to some elephant footing which i resolved with initial fan speeds and bed heating adjustments i never had problems. After some cubes i went straight to a 3 day Helmet Print, no problems, minimal stringing on the inside because i tried to save as much material as possible by using minimal supports. The rest was near perfect. Sometimes i just think some 3D printers are outright worse than others. And for the mere 400 bucks the X2 cost me it is a beast. I am even still on my first nozzle. Just don´t cheap out on your filament and slow is always better.
Another thing that boggles my mind is that you had to buy another printer. It´s a shame on the design of the printer that you couldn´t tune the motors and rolls yourself. On the X2 i can tune every axis myself by loosening the screws and tuning everything so the mechanics of the hardware and the software actually synch up. It´s not just about tuning your slicer settings, you have to tune the actual printer. Mechanics and Software have to work hand in hand here. The video is great i am just sad you had to spend 1300 bucks twice to achieve what i had with 400 bucks. But hey it´s been a year and the hobby is evolving every day! :D
Cripes dude, you really did good work here, and thanks! I hate overture petg and probably wont buy any other filament they make because it is such hot trash imo. I think ABS is the better filament and much easier to print quality parts. I'd rather buy a $50 enclosure than 3 $30 spools and spending days getting it right
when details are printed with Petg. This kicks the FAN on and this cools your petg ENOUGH to not let the next layer stick to the lower layer and it starts balling up and then you get the blobs and the extruder hitting the previous layer.....
I had terrible stringer with PLA recently. Had never happened before but I don't use my Ender 3D clone very often. I ended up replacing the hot end. 1,000% better instantly. The old OE hot end was literally cooked. It stank from burnt PLA, and must have had issue hanging the filament. I spent 3 nights doing many temperature, and settings changes trying to figure out why it was printing so bad, but sometimes it's just as simple as changing a printer part, like a nozzle, or hot end, or extruder.
Awesome video, Will try and get your settings written down somehow and test them out :) I just noticed the same issue with the leadscrew as you had on your first ADV4. Thats just annoying that they made that kind of error (design flaw). :D
I've had tons of trouble with PETG bot with my creality ender 5 pro but do get best results when using the PRUSA slicer or Lychee slicer for all Prusa is free so far to linux users don't know about windows...
Just to summarizing for me: Bed temp: 85 °C Final good temperature: 240 °C Final good retraction: 0.2-0.5 mm Pre/After retraction: 0.2 mm (maybe) Max detail speed: 20 mm
I'm printing petg reliably and with acceptable quality for me at up to 200mm/s on creality cr-10 se. Useful video for experimenting to maybe get somewhat better quality, but I don't plan on slowing down too much to get perfect results
@@chaos.corner Usually around 230, 235 often seems like a good spot, sometimes up to 250, but I think the change from the brass nozzle used at the start with higher temperatures to plated copper bimetalic, or plated copper bimetalic cht, led to decrease of temperatures 5-20C for most filaments, so also a thing to keep in mind. Bed usually at 70, and default material fan settings (50% for petg I think)
@@milospavlovic7520 Interesting. I am having trouble printing at 245 @30mm/s but I seem to be on the edge. I do need to try turning the fan down. Printer not top end and tops out at 250 (but actually 245 top usable). I may have to look into that kind of nozzle if it helps that much.
@@chaos.corner To be clear, this is a printer with direct drive extruder and volcano-length nozzle, and I'm reffering to printhead travel speed during printing, not filament feeding speed (I almost mixed them up once). Up to 200mm/s is good, at 300 I usually start to see delaminations (Devil Design filament)
Are you accounting for the moisture content of your filament? If not, that is an uncontrolled variable that could explain the variance between brands of filament. One roll is likely more dry than the other. It just works that way even in factory sealed bags. PETG does absorb water and it really effects print quality. Get a filament dryer capable of hitting 70C and dry all filament before and during testing.
WOAH you bought another ad4! crazy haha, It appears the new one has stabilizers for the Z rods.. now I'm kicking myself for not waiting longer before buying the ad4 :( but hopefully whatever changes/fixes they did on the newer ones can be implemented on the older ones.. but changing z rods looks like a pain on this machine.
Hello! I've watched all your videos! You're doing great! Thanks for the clarification! There is still a question. If the Z axis is not fixed at the base of the printer, how can I fix it? How to fix it? As I understand it, this greatly affects the print quality.
So frustrating. I have an Ender 3 Pro with the glass bed and direct drive upgrades. I print some things just fine if they are solid. Did the retraction/stringing towers and they come out perfect. But anything in a real print with small gaps, and it's always a stringy mess. I've raised and lowered temp. I've increased retraction distance up to 15 and decreased down to 1. Increased retraction speed all the way to 80. Increased speed up to 70 and decreased down to 20. Turned off z hop. Reduced flow. Increased travel speed all the way to 200. And all combinations I can imagine. What puzzles me is that none of these -- not one variation -- results in any difference whatsoever. Stringy mess. Any ideas?
I have tried Cura as well. I would say each slicer has its own quirks and at this point, I've spent close to 400 hours trying out different slicers and messing around so I'm just sticking to superslicer for the most part
I had a similar issue with a bcn3d sigma r19, even though it was a £2500 printer sometimes a lemon gets through qc.. I swear my £350 cr10 was more reliable. One thing I found out is on bowden printers I never use z hop (cura & super slicer) as it wipes that crud off the nozzle, when you get coasting, retraction and wipe tuned.
Daniel hope your quest is going well. I added a comment to Ashely’s that many help you . I have a adventure 4 and your video was extremely helpful . I do have a background in high precision injection molding and can see the parallels in processing petg . The material is a hybrid engineering material and does have two entirely different processing parameters depending on the type of results you want in regards to properties . Figuring theses things out in 3d printing is a challenge . I had a few questions on where you found a temp tower that works on a flash print slicer . And you were abl3 to edit the flash print code . I am currently printing petg on my flash forge not exactly perfect but much improved based on your videos ..thanks for your explanations ! I was thinking about maybe creating a video on the difference between amorphous and crystalline flow characteristics that may help others understand the variations in results
I am able to edit the flashprint code if its saved as a gcode file. Not the gx files. The temp tower is just a generic one that I found on thingiverse. There are quite a few if you search up temperature tower if you haven't tried yet
Thanks for sharing all this work! I'm currently printing my first PETG object, a BEN (floating benchmark, with more detail) and it's going very well so far. Printing with Duramic Premium PETG (white) on my Ender 3 V2, which is stock except Capricorn bowden tube. Hot end at 240C (don't want to overheat my bowden) and bed at 70C with blue painters tape on the printing surface, as I heard PETG can tear up the bed. I set up a custom material because the "Creality Slicer" (repackaged Cura I believe?) doesn't have Duramic products yet, no fan for first 0.7mm and then 20% fan after. I checked during the print and the Ender said it was doing 51% fan so I tuned it down to 25% and it seems to be doing a bit cleaner than when it was at 51% but that was okay too. (this was a bit of a mistake on my part, see edit) Not sure if any of this info helps, I wonder if PETG prints better with a very short bowden, as mine is like maybe 18cm, no where near your 50cm, but I figured I would share my experience so far. Still doing a lot of learning myself. 😊 Edited to say my BEN turned out pretty great, the details weren't as clean as PLA+ but I realized later that in the "tuning" on the printer interface the fan speed works on a 0-255 scale, so 51 was 20%, and when I dialed it in to what I thought was 25% I was changing it to 25/255 or 10%. I also realized that I never had the option visible in my slicer that allows for a different initial layer temp, so I set that up for my second PETG print which is currently underway. So I am now doing ZERO fan for the first 0.7mm and then 25% or 61/255 for the rest of my print. Hoping this can clean up the details a little as 10% was a bit low I feel. I also just noticed that I forgot to mention my print speed before, which is set to 50mm/s print.
Did you try disabling gap-fill? If you set the speed to 0, then it's disabled. At least in Prusaslic3r. Gap fill is a pain in my opinion, especially with a bowden setup.
I did disable gap fill at one point. But I have quite liked how gap fill works on superslicer because it prevents the printer from doing quick jittery infill patterns in those narrow sections
@@cirrus820 My printer doesn't have jerk, acceleration, or linear advance settings. Its firmware is closed as far as I'm aware otherwise I would have looked into those
Same experience with Overture: it's the worst PETG I ever used. Impossible to extrude fast and constant adhesion failures on first layer without going extremely slow.
I've had great first layer adhesion (glass bed+glue stick) at 250C, 70C bed, and 25mm/s. The rest of the print works beautifully at 40mm/s, but small features are a nightmare that I've been unable to solve. Hundreds of hours and 450g of wasted filament later... The printer is a modded Ender 5 (BL touch, upgraded bed heater, all-metal hotend, mainboard), but I'm not aware of everything as I'm borrowing this unit, but the owner has had great success printing PLA, PETG (eSun), ABS, TPU, wood-filled. I've gotten all the parts I need from PETG now anyway, so I might just stick with PLA and ASA from here on.
I dont know about their PETG but Overture and Duramic have the EXACT PLA formula. There is absolutely no difference so I would suspect it would be the same for their PETG. I can actually print really well with Overture because it is one of the few brands that can give you a matte finish while maintaining strength and durability but from everyone's complaints I am going to try hatchbox and polymaker tomorrow to see if life can get easier. I do know that turning my fans completely off and printing at 220 @60mms with only a .8mm retraction (direct drive) 96% flow gives a perfect wall. Do note that over retracting can cause serious clogs if you are not careful.
There exists exactly ONE PLA supplier worldwide, who ships just several types of pellets, of which not many are suitable for 3D printing to begin with. Maybe two suppliers now, not sure. So anyway for the longest time all PLA filaments being identical (save for masterbatch usage) was just the way things was, and even now there isn't much variety. But there are a lot of chemical companies which synthesize PETG and they do tend to have their own unique ideas on how to do the thing. PET is among the most used plastics in the world and the process is trivially modified. PLA though comes exclusively from biomedical supply chain.
Thank you for doing all this work and sharing so much with us. Liked and subscribed! One thing I have noticed is that a brand new brass nozzle can really be a game changer sometimes, but once I start changing filaments it goes down hill from there. What do you think?
My printer I think uses a steel nozzle. It’s definitely proprietary since they cost around $27 per piece! I don’t mix filaments within the same nozzle and I would recommend anyone reading this to label your nozzles with the first filament you used in it
Try the stl called pray it. Of a cowboy kneeling down and praying I have been trying to print with petg but not having any luck may one of you can try it My printer it a tenlog 3d pro
I literally just threw five spools of Overture filament in the bin - apart from one highlighter yellow and green one where I use the filament only for embedded filament vases ... Pain in the ass stuff
Pretty weird how crazy different experiences people have, seriously, I wonder what the heck is so different for me to reach 80mm/s at 0.2mm layers with 0.5mm line width, on a clone V6 hotend (normal, not volcano), 0.4mm nozzle. Truth be told, I really don't care about stringing so I'm just pushing material as fast as the printer can push, but well, that's a massive speed increase with Aliexpress versions of parts, I'm not running anything weird exotic... Could the material be that much different? Could your nozzle be on the way out? I did have horrible clogs all the time when mine was going away. Extruder is a titan clone (Aliexpress cheapest I can find again), direct drive. The heater cartridge is a 40w one tho at least. so maybe that's significant? Single 5015 blower but the duct blows both sides, 40% fan speed.
Damn, I just got a Bambu Lab A1, and PETG benchy printed way better than in your video and I didn't change anything at all, no stringing or bridging issues, benchy hull perfect and smooth
"And then i continued to Tune and Tune and Tune and thing just went down hill from there" If they ever write a Bible about 3d Printing,,, this line has to be in it - lol
interesting solution...I still get clogs here and there. One thing I did notice for my latest print is that I got a clog when leaving the door closed and then after, I decided to leave the door open and the rest of the print succeeded. Need to test this out a little bit more
You're talking about "perfect" results but your benchy looks not perfect. And that's with very slow speed. I'm printing many different PETGs (Geeetech, Kingroon, Extrudr...) 12-20mm³/200mm/s max (depends on layer height, a key is a good hotend like vulcano- or cht-style and limit speeds conservative by volumetric flow). Even on Ender 2 I was printing it better with 60mm/s. Orca slicer standard profiles for petg are looking better with my printer. On newer printers pressure advance tuning also drastically improves quality btw..
Lets just have a minute of silence. He ordered another 1300$ printer that he only had issues with to figure out if that was causing overture petg to fail
Cura + ender 3 max + manual bed lvl + bmg with volcano + 2x4010 fan 40% speed + "wet" filament = strings only on my gf ass. 0.93 filament ratio, 230-250°C hotend, 0.4 noze, 3mm retract, 80mms outer, 60mms inner, 40mms top bottom, 25mms initial 100mms infill, small perimeters 8mm 50% speed, 2000mms² traveling, 1200mms² outerwalls. Still my K1 is 2,5x faster, but ender is perfected in every dimension
So maybe this video should be called printing PETG as fast as possible... I'm here to figure out how to get the best quality...not the fastest print speed.... Thanks anyway.
Wow... Get a better printer... I was printing almost exclusively in PETG since my Creality Ender 5....and with my Bambu Labs P1S, I'm printing PETG at over 300 mm/sec with just stock profiles. As for filament .. I primarily print Polymaker PolyLite PETG, but I've gotten great results on the cheapest stuff I could find on Temu too.
Not a fan of long info vids but it didn’t even cross my mind to ff or give up on yours. Your articulation of the numerous complex and largely contingent settings within these slicers as well as your visuals are incredibly valuable. The trial and error I’ve been going thru with PETG has been fruitless, frustrating and discouraging. The comprehensive context you provide here has filled so many voids in my mental “decision tree”. The speed at which you communicate all of this and jargon you use is also supportive to someone who isn’t new but no where near experienced which allows me time to digest and copy info I find I need to apply whereas with other videos I’m constantly trying to rewind multiple times and replay at various points. And replay. And replay. And am still left scratching my head.
I so appreciate your approach and hope you continue- you standout exponentially among the rest! Thank you THANK YOU!
Thought I'd leave a message here because of how helpful your PETG videos have been. I've been printing with PETG for a couple of years now and have never had particularly wonderful prints, always with stringing and blobs despite drying filament (and having dry boxes). After following the same steps you had taken I'm now printing beautiful PETG prints with only extremely thin stringing (like spiderweb thin) which is passable for me personally as that's pretty easy to remove with a heat gun. Thank you for the videos!! You rock!!
Thanks for this video Daniel. I appreciate how you broke the problem down to individual variables and optimized each.
Awesome video. Never saw anyone walk us through the entire struggle. This is very helpful thank you
We have tested hundreds of materials every year for consistency in color, extrusion, moisture, tolerance, etc.. The three manufacturers that have stood out and given the most consistent results are direct purchases from Prusament, 3DXtech, and Atomic Filament.
You obviously didn’t test 3D-fuel if Atomic is on that list.
About to start printing with PETG and I found this vid really interesting, thanks Daniel.
Hi daniel, I've commented on another video of yours but just wanted to reiterate the content you're producing for the adventurer 4 is second to none.
Ordering a second one is a pretty extreme form of printer tuning lol
I appreciate the work you put into this. Very concise presentation of complex issues and your voice is comfortable to listen to. I just got my first Ender Neo and ran a roll of PLA and a half roll of PetG through it so far working on a prototype of an invention. Thanks.
Petg is very sensitive to ambient air temp in around the fan intake. Fan speed should be reduced in colder rooms. Also the when printing higher prints off the hot build plate the intake air gets colder so the cooling increases at the same fan speed. So getting a warm stable air temp around the printer is a good starting point.
The key to printing PETG is to get your flow rate absolutely dialled in.
To do this you need to calibrate your esteps or rotational distance if you use Klipper. Then you need to print a single wall hollow cube and compare the wall thickness to the one requested in your slicer. Walls to thick, over extrusion, reduce your flow rate. To thin, then it's the opposite. Look up teaching techs guide for printer tuning on this. Flow rate will need to be tuned for each roll of filament due to variations in diameter between rolls effecting extrusion volume.
Estep and flow rate calibration is critical for PETG as over extrusion is what causes the filament to build up on the nozzle over time causing stinging, layer shifts and small features failing due to the build up of filament on the nozzle interfering with the extrusion path.
After that it's a matter of tuning your retraction and your part cooling relative to the print speed. Getting your cooling right is also very important. To low and you make PETG more prone to string. To high and as the extrusion is layed down it will have a whitish haze. It should be glossy. Translucent PETG is good for tuning cooling as it looses it's translucency with over cooling.
In my experience coasting made things worse and I just used wipe. I also use S3d.
You should also tune your bridge setting as this will make a huge difference to your overhangs. I think mine are set to 10mm3 area, 2.00 expansion, 95% flow, 100% speed. This works well but could probably be improved upon. PETG has poor bridging properties so you need to set your bridge trigger low which is why mine is at 10mm3. Useful for 1st layer top with low infill percentages.
I might just upload my S3d profile so you can compare. Way to much to type here.
Ashley … I must commend you .. you know your stuff , the one thing that petg adds to its complexity is at certain temperatures it operates in an amorphous state of flow and at higher temps it flips to a crystalline state if flow .. amorphous state of flow is like syrup crystalline is like water . Rheology , the study of plastic flow is a topic that is widely known in the injection molding industry which I suspect you may know about ..
I followed the same guide it was very good. However, the extrusion amount (flow in cura) I adjusted this to have the right thickness of a single wall that my slicer says should be the output..
after that adjustment (which went from 100% to 86) found my first layer to have gaps, a sign of under extrusion again. & yes my z offset has been tuned before all these.
More tinkering I’m guessing.
@@daveoutlaw9890 Thank you but I'm just a hobbyist. My knowledge comes from observation and problem solving. I will look into rheology, it sounds interesting.
@@DSPrints_ yeah cura is a funny one. I spent a couple of days attempting to tune petg in cura on 2 seperate occasion and I could never get a result like in S3D. Could not tune out stringing or improper printing of small feature. Cura has some things going on behind the curtain that prevent you having full control over what is happening I suspect.
I use super slicer now. Haven't printed petg with it. Haven't printed petg for a while actually. Not since I built my voron 2.4 and am able to reliably print ABS.
Built my Prusa, put some Prusament PETG on it and it produced a perfect benchy on the first run! No messing about, just worked.
I have been trying to learn PETG (kinda hard not to play with all the different material options hahahahah)
I've been having grief with flashprint and I might have to give superslicer a shot
Between this and your other videos, your advice has been so helpful setting up my profiles properly
Especially with PETG - but across the board great work man
So glad the algorithm recommended you - underrated as hell
Thanks for sharing, great info. I'm going to try PETG for the first time today
I’ve printed two things with black overture filament and they are mint on pla settings
😊😊😊
Thanks for the informative video. I've been 3D printing since we had to build our own 3D printers because they weren't consumer items, but I've only recently started to print in PETG. As the video was wrapping up I was heading to the comments section to suggest that you put your optimized settings in the video description but that's where the video showed the slicer settings across many screens so we can pause the video and see all of the slicer settings.
wow, what a crusade to get that working!! Congrats on the dedication, impressive
Ordered my first spool of PETG today and will be tweaking my printer so I can print a helmet chin mount for my GoPro. I have an Ender 3 Pro, Microswiss Direct drive, MS full metal hot end 4.2.2 board, BLT etc. Normally runs fine but I'm thinking I'm in for a bit of a learning curve lol
Thank you! You're the first person i've seen who really elaborates on experiments rather than giving basic advices.
Will try some of that on my Dreamer. Unfortunately, Dreamers have only one cooling choice: 100% or none (as well as several other lacks) but your video is enough to get started.
Also, never heard of Superslicer, shall give it a go.
Had nothing but problems with Overture PETG with any settings, I settled on amazon basics PETG seems pretty good for the price. Great video man.
Sadly we don’t have Amazon petg in Canada
@@justmakeitdaniel7667 It looks like it's made by 3d Jake in the Netherlands at least it's made there according to the spool
Esun PETG has been good for me, just waiting on some PETG+ from Sparta3D to try. Overture has been hit and miss.
@@grantsautoessentials9584 I actually printed some Esun which I didn’t mention in my video and those failed as well on my first printer. I haven’t tried it on the brand new one yet
@@justmakeitdaniel7667 do you have devil design? You should try that filament. I have great results with the av4…. Even without stringing!!
In the temperature section you talk about that odd diagonal blobs that is being produced. And then you moved onto the retraction settings. Was that the cure to removing that diagonal blob stairway?
my elegoo cura does the same, jumping everywhere adding bits and bobs instead of printing orderly
Some printers have the extruder drive in the print head and don't suffer from the Bowden tube loading. Of course, that adds to the weight of the print head assembly, which causes its own issues.
I think that the main takeaway is that a printer that is well set up will print better. But excellent analysis.
Thanks you solve som of my problems the temp was a BIG improvement
NGL for a new channel your camera work and editing are on point...
Thanks! This is actually my second channel. My first one is in the finance niche so I guess it’s not my first rodeo 😅
@@justmakeitdaniel7667 Ahh that makes sense haha 1 why i haven't seen it and 2 why you're already so good lol
I'm sure the black pigments on PETG have something to do with all this. I'vr tried eSun, 3DJake and Extrud3r and I get perfect prints with all colors but black. Thank you very much for the video, will do another retraction testing session today.
I have the same suspicion...black petg just doesn't print well.
That was a huge amount of work .. Thank You for sharing .. Cheers :)
i managed to print a 3d benchy in 30 minutes in petg without stringing.
I didnt want to sacrifice speed so the trick i found was to change the order in which the inner/outer layers get printed as well as the outer wall speed.
I also use the spiral manoeuvre and minimal z hop as a means to "clean" or "wipe" the extruder.
Low printing temperature at 220 and part cooling fan.
Just for another point of reference. I have printed about 50 spools of PETG filament over the past two years on two different printers. Switching between whichever was cheapest at the time between Overture, Polymaker, Duramic, Inland and eSun. Of those, eSun seemed to absorb the most moisture. But all have worked well for me once I had my printer working properly. I wouldn't personally buy anything cheaper than those brands and I really didn't like the Matterhackers Build Series PETG. For me the biggest differences were ditching the PTFE lined Creality clone hotend with a bowden tube and moving to a direct drive and an all metal hotend. And second, making absolutely sure my first layer was good, not too close and not too far. Too close and you end up with lots of blobs and problems with later layers because of the pressure build up in the nozzle. Also, I use 100% fan after the first layer.
I also got good results installing the Creality Sprite Pro direct drive head to my Ender 3 Pro.
Now the only thing that seems to matter when printing PETG is keeping my retraction under 1mm so it doesn't pull the filament out of the melt zone.
Super well put together video. I love finding these types of tests where someone does everything. I just picked up the Adventurer 5M a month or so ago. Loving it so far, but stock settings for PETG are not working. I'm going to try a few of these things. I found with PLA, I needed 240F, probably because the thing moves so fast. Not sure if you've picked up an AD5M, but would highly recommend it. Would love to see your analysis on some filaments with that machine. Subscribed !!
What I would like to know is if a expensive hardened nozzle is a more worth while purchase over a larger number of ok but cheap brass nozzles? Witch would serve me best in the long run, manny and cheap or fiew high quality/hardened and expensive, do you really get what you pay for or is it a rip of? Is there a reason to ever buy a none hardened nozzle?
love your channel keep up the good videos!
I had the same issue with youe black benches brealing appsrt at the top
My fix was zhop and a cold pull
Been running Anycubic Mega X for size and if you add a dual gear or mod them they are great cheap printers. I have clear petg dialed for large items and thin wall settings at 233c The fast way to test is use support lines holding a hangmans post the single layer support is max transparency on petg so adjust as it builds with heat settings watching the walls..
Fine tuning is everything, yet sometimes i wonder what´s going on here. I have a Sidewinder X2 and use Redline PETG which costs about 27 € per Kilo. I never had bad stringing or anything that many people frequently experience. I calibrated my printer once and besides some tweaks i had to make due to some elephant footing which i resolved with initial fan speeds and bed heating adjustments i never had problems. After some cubes i went straight to a 3 day Helmet Print, no problems, minimal stringing on the inside because i tried to save as much material as possible by using minimal supports. The rest was near perfect. Sometimes i just think some 3D printers are outright worse than others. And for the mere 400 bucks the X2 cost me it is a beast. I am even still on my first nozzle. Just don´t cheap out on your filament and slow is always better.
Another thing that boggles my mind is that you had to buy another printer. It´s a shame on the design of the printer that you couldn´t tune the motors and rolls yourself. On the X2 i can tune every axis myself by loosening the screws and tuning everything so the mechanics of the hardware and the software actually synch up. It´s not just about tuning your slicer settings, you have to tune the actual printer. Mechanics and Software have to work hand in hand here. The video is great i am just sad you had to spend 1300 bucks twice to achieve what i had with 400 bucks. But hey it´s been a year and the hobby is evolving every day! :D
Cripes dude, you really did good work here, and thanks! I hate overture petg and probably wont buy any other filament they make because it is such hot trash imo.
I think ABS is the better filament and much easier to print quality parts. I'd rather buy a $50 enclosure than 3 $30 spools and spending days getting it right
im usen nept 4 max and haven a the problem about mid way into a project(helmet) it starts stringing but little pieces
and advice
Thanks, I can use some ref now
when details are printed with Petg. This kicks the FAN on and this cools your petg ENOUGH to not let the next layer stick to the lower layer and it starts balling up and then you get the blobs and the extruder hitting the previous layer.....
Every 3d printers are not create equal so your best setting may not be my best setting but it is a good start.
I had terrible stringer with PLA recently. Had never happened before but I don't use my Ender 3D clone very often. I ended up replacing the hot end. 1,000% better instantly. The old OE hot end was literally cooked. It stank from burnt PLA, and must have had issue hanging the filament.
I spent 3 nights doing many temperature, and settings changes trying to figure out why it was printing so bad, but sometimes it's just as simple as changing a printer part, like a nozzle, or hot end, or extruder.
yes petg is the bane of my existence i have a cr-10 .8 nozzle
Awesome video,
Will try and get your settings written down somehow and test them out :)
I just noticed the same issue with the leadscrew as you had on your first ADV4. Thats just annoying that they made that kind of error (design flaw). :D
Question, My ender3 has a sprite direct drive extruder, how much would coasting effect my prints with petg?
It would be useful is if your provided your cura profiles
I found that a big part in printing PETG successfully is a filament oiler/lubricator
Great, helpful information and I appreciate that. I do find the music distracting, though.
I've had tons of trouble with PETG bot with my creality ender 5 pro but do get best results when using the PRUSA slicer or Lychee slicer for all Prusa is free so far to linux users don't know about windows...
Just to summarizing for me:
Bed temp: 85 °C
Final good temperature: 240 °C
Final good retraction: 0.2-0.5 mm
Pre/After retraction: 0.2 mm (maybe)
Max detail speed: 20 mm
Wow. I thought I already had my speed turned down a lot but looks like I need to crank it down even further...
I'm printing petg reliably and with acceptable quality for me at up to 200mm/s on creality cr-10 se. Useful video for experimenting to maybe get somewhat better quality, but I don't plan on slowing down too much to get perfect results
@@milospavlovic7520 What temperature?
@@chaos.corner Usually around 230, 235 often seems like a good spot, sometimes up to 250, but I think the change from the brass nozzle used at the start with higher temperatures to plated copper bimetalic, or plated copper bimetalic cht, led to decrease of temperatures 5-20C for most filaments, so also a thing to keep in mind. Bed usually at 70, and default material fan settings (50% for petg I think)
@@milospavlovic7520 Interesting. I am having trouble printing at 245 @30mm/s but I seem to be on the edge. I do need to try turning the fan down. Printer not top end and tops out at 250 (but actually 245 top usable). I may have to look into that kind of nozzle if it helps that much.
@@chaos.corner To be clear, this is a printer with direct drive extruder and volcano-length nozzle, and I'm reffering to printhead travel speed during printing, not filament feeding speed (I almost mixed them up once). Up to 200mm/s is good, at 300 I usually start to see delaminations (Devil Design filament)
Are you accounting for the moisture content of your filament? If not, that is an uncontrolled variable that could explain the variance between brands of filament. One roll is likely more dry than the other. It just works that way even in factory sealed bags. PETG does absorb water and it really effects print quality. Get a filament dryer capable of hitting 70C and dry all filament before and during testing.
I have a filament dryer which I put the filament through for 6h and then 24h after to see if that made a difference
0:33 Did you really transform two collums into a benchy? 😮
Where can I download that STL model?
WOAH you bought another ad4! crazy haha, It appears the new one has stabilizers for the Z rods.. now I'm kicking myself for not waiting longer before buying the ad4 :( but hopefully whatever changes/fixes they did on the newer ones can be implemented on the older ones.. but changing z rods looks like a pain on this machine.
Yeh I bought it on Amazon so it’s an easier return process
Hello! I've watched all your videos! You're doing great! Thanks for the clarification!
There is still a question. If the Z axis is not fixed at the base of the printer, how can I fix it? How to fix it? As I understand it, this greatly affects the print quality.
Maybe come up with an STL file that could fix the old revisions of Adventurer 4?
So frustrating. I have an Ender 3 Pro with the glass bed and direct drive upgrades. I print some things just fine if they are solid. Did the retraction/stringing towers and they come out perfect. But anything in a real print with small gaps, and it's always a stringy mess.
I've raised and lowered temp.
I've increased retraction distance up to 15 and decreased down to 1. Increased retraction speed all the way to 80.
Increased speed up to 70 and decreased down to 20.
Turned off z hop.
Reduced flow.
Increased travel speed all the way to 200.
And all combinations I can imagine.
What puzzles me is that none of these -- not one variation -- results in any difference whatsoever. Stringy mess.
Any ideas?
I set the slicer to print the perimeter first.
Any reason you aren't using cura? You seem to hop slicers pretty regularly, but don't mention using arguably the most popular free slicer.
I have tried Cura as well. I would say each slicer has its own quirks and at this point, I've spent close to 400 hours trying out different slicers and messing around so I'm just sticking to superslicer for the most part
I had a similar issue with a bcn3d sigma r19, even though it was a £2500 printer sometimes a lemon gets through qc.. I swear my £350 cr10 was more reliable. One thing I found out is on bowden printers I never use z hop (cura & super slicer) as it wipes that crud off the nozzle, when you get coasting, retraction and wipe tuned.
Daniel hope your quest is going well. I added a comment to Ashely’s that many help you . I have a adventure 4 and your video was extremely helpful . I do have a background in high precision injection molding and can see the parallels in processing petg . The material is a hybrid engineering material and does have two entirely different processing parameters depending on the type of results you want in regards to properties . Figuring theses things out in 3d printing is a challenge . I had a few questions on where you found a temp tower that works on a flash print slicer . And you were abl3 to edit the flash print code . I am currently printing petg on my flash forge not exactly perfect but much improved based on your videos ..thanks for your explanations ! I was thinking about maybe creating a video on the difference between amorphous and crystalline flow characteristics that may help others understand the variations in results
I am able to edit the flashprint code if its saved as a gcode file. Not the gx files. The temp tower is just a generic one that I found on thingiverse. There are quite a few if you search up temperature tower if you haven't tried yet
Thanks for sharing all this work! I'm currently printing my first PETG object, a BEN (floating benchmark, with more detail) and it's going very well so far. Printing with Duramic Premium PETG (white) on my Ender 3 V2, which is stock except Capricorn bowden tube. Hot end at 240C (don't want to overheat my bowden) and bed at 70C with blue painters tape on the printing surface, as I heard PETG can tear up the bed. I set up a custom material because the "Creality Slicer" (repackaged Cura I believe?) doesn't have Duramic products yet, no fan for first 0.7mm and then 20% fan after. I checked during the print and the Ender said it was doing 51% fan so I tuned it down to 25% and it seems to be doing a bit cleaner than when it was at 51% but that was okay too. (this was a bit of a mistake on my part, see edit) Not sure if any of this info helps, I wonder if PETG prints better with a very short bowden, as mine is like maybe 18cm, no where near your 50cm, but I figured I would share my experience so far. Still doing a lot of learning myself. 😊
Edited to say my BEN turned out pretty great, the details weren't as clean as PLA+ but I realized later that in the "tuning" on the printer interface the fan speed works on a 0-255 scale, so 51 was 20%, and when I dialed it in to what I thought was 25% I was changing it to 25/255 or 10%. I also realized that I never had the option visible in my slicer that allows for a different initial layer temp, so I set that up for my second PETG print which is currently underway. So I am now doing ZERO fan for the first 0.7mm and then 25% or 61/255 for the rest of my print. Hoping this can clean up the details a little as 10% was a bit low I feel. I also just noticed that I forgot to mention my print speed before, which is set to 50mm/s print.
What was your fan speed on cura?
On my ender 3 pro I have dual 4010s and gave the fan speeds at 50% for my overture petg
Use that with what you will
I was using around 20%
Did you try disabling gap-fill? If you set the speed to 0, then it's disabled. At least in Prusaslic3r.
Gap fill is a pain in my opinion, especially with a bowden setup.
I did disable gap fill at one point. But I have quite liked how gap fill works on superslicer because it prevents the printer from doing quick jittery infill patterns in those narrow sections
@@justmakeitdaniel7667 I think i combated that with disabling jerk and setting acceleration a bit lower.
Did you also try linear advance?
@@cirrus820 My printer doesn't have jerk, acceleration, or linear advance settings. Its firmware is closed as far as I'm aware otherwise I would have looked into those
Same experience with Overture: it's the worst PETG I ever used. Impossible to extrude fast and constant adhesion failures on first layer without going extremely slow.
I've had great first layer adhesion (glass bed+glue stick) at 250C, 70C bed, and 25mm/s. The rest of the print works beautifully at 40mm/s, but small features are a nightmare that I've been unable to solve. Hundreds of hours and 450g of wasted filament later...
The printer is a modded Ender 5 (BL touch, upgraded bed heater, all-metal hotend, mainboard), but I'm not aware of everything as I'm borrowing this unit, but the owner has had great success printing PLA, PETG (eSun), ABS, TPU, wood-filled. I've gotten all the parts I need from PETG now anyway, so I might just stick with PLA and ASA from here on.
I dont know about their PETG but Overture and Duramic have the EXACT PLA formula. There is absolutely no difference so I would suspect it would be the same for their PETG. I can actually print really well with Overture because it is one of the few brands that can give you a matte finish while maintaining strength and durability but from everyone's complaints I am going to try hatchbox and polymaker tomorrow to see if life can get easier. I do know that turning my fans completely off and printing at 220 @60mms with only a .8mm retraction (direct drive) 96% flow gives a perfect wall. Do note that over retracting can cause serious clogs if you are not careful.
There exists exactly ONE PLA supplier worldwide, who ships just several types of pellets, of which not many are suitable for 3D printing to begin with. Maybe two suppliers now, not sure. So anyway for the longest time all PLA filaments being identical (save for masterbatch usage) was just the way things was, and even now there isn't much variety.
But there are a lot of chemical companies which synthesize PETG and they do tend to have their own unique ideas on how to do the thing. PET is among the most used plastics in the world and the process is trivially modified. PLA though comes exclusively from biomedical supply chain.
Thank you for doing all this work and sharing so much with us. Liked and subscribed! One thing I have noticed is that a brand new brass nozzle can really be a game changer sometimes, but once I start changing filaments it goes down hill from there. What do you think?
My printer I think uses a steel nozzle. It’s definitely proprietary since they cost around $27 per piece! I don’t mix filaments within the same nozzle and I would recommend anyone reading this to label your nozzles with the first filament you used in it
Great video, might help me once I dare to buy some PETG filament
Just Do It!
Try the stl called pray it. Of a cowboy kneeling down and praying I have been trying to print with petg but not having any luck may one of you can try it My printer it a tenlog 3d pro
Great info.. but why on earth did you buy another one of those things 😆
So I could return my first one through Amazon 🥸
I literally just threw five spools of Overture filament in the bin - apart from one highlighter yellow and green one where I use the filament only for embedded filament vases ... Pain in the ass stuff
Pretty weird how crazy different experiences people have, seriously, I wonder what the heck is so different for me to reach 80mm/s at 0.2mm layers with 0.5mm line width, on a clone V6 hotend (normal, not volcano), 0.4mm nozzle.
Truth be told, I really don't care about stringing so I'm just pushing material as fast as the printer can push, but well, that's a massive speed increase with Aliexpress versions of parts, I'm not running anything weird exotic... Could the material be that much different? Could your nozzle be on the way out? I did have horrible clogs all the time when mine was going away.
Extruder is a titan clone (Aliexpress cheapest I can find again), direct drive. The heater cartridge is a 40w one tho at least. so maybe that's significant? Single 5015 blower but the duct blows both sides, 40% fan speed.
that indent on the benchy means your bed temp is to hot
cool
Damn, I just got a Bambu Lab A1, and PETG benchy printed way better than in your video and I didn't change anything at all, no stringing or bridging issues, benchy hull perfect and smooth
I just filled out a return for overture PLA cause it just refused to behave. This doesn't inspire confidence lol
"And then i continued to Tune and Tune and Tune and thing just went down hill from there"
If they ever write a Bible about 3d Printing,,, this line has to be in it - lol
I pushed the flow to 120% and it seems to have stopped majority of blobbing. Total noob here.
interesting solution...I still get clogs here and there. One thing I did notice for my latest print is that I got a clog when leaving the door closed and then after, I decided to leave the door open and the rest of the print succeeded. Need to test this out a little bit more
Thanks for doing this, so we don't have to :)
Make sure your filament is absolutely bone dry. PETG is stringing like hell if it's only a little moist.
I've tried trying out my filament before and it didn't make much of a difference
Jesus thats lot of time on testing adjusting theorizing
You're talking about "perfect" results but your benchy looks not perfect. And that's with very slow speed. I'm printing many different PETGs (Geeetech, Kingroon, Extrudr...) 12-20mm³/200mm/s max (depends on layer height, a key is a good hotend like vulcano- or cht-style and limit speeds conservative by volumetric flow). Even on Ender 2 I was printing it better with 60mm/s. Orca slicer standard profiles for petg are looking better with my printer. On newer printers pressure advance tuning also drastically improves quality btw..
Lets just have a minute of silence. He ordered another 1300$ printer that he only had issues with to figure out if that was causing overture petg to fail
Amazon returns :D
dude what is that😂those first prints look awful. the only problems i’ve had with petg is a lil warping and bed adhesion
That's the same problem I'm trying to fix and brought me here and still didn't help lmao
Cura + ender 3 max + manual bed lvl + bmg with volcano + 2x4010 fan 40% speed + "wet" filament
= strings only on my gf ass.
0.93 filament ratio, 230-250°C hotend, 0.4 noze, 3mm retract, 80mms outer, 60mms inner, 40mms top bottom, 25mms initial 100mms infill, small perimeters 8mm 50% speed, 2000mms² traveling, 1200mms² outerwalls.
Still my K1 is 2,5x faster, but ender is perfected in every dimension
bowden
So maybe this video should be called printing PETG as fast as possible...
I'm here to figure out how to get the best quality...not the fastest print speed....
Thanks anyway.
Bro buy a resin printer, why buy another one,. If you want quality resin, or.buy prusa or.diff kind of printer brand
Nah I don’t want to deal with the mess of a resin printer. I bought a second one on Amazon so it was easy to return
he he ok bro
How to get perfect PETG prints? Order a new printer haha
buy a new printer every time there's an issue, got it.
Wow... Get a better printer... I was printing almost exclusively in PETG since my Creality Ender 5....and with my Bambu Labs P1S, I'm printing PETG at over 300 mm/sec with just stock profiles. As for filament .. I primarily print Polymaker PolyLite PETG, but I've gotten great results on the cheapest stuff I could find on Temu too.
Horrible Quality
Expensive Printer For Nothing.
Amén.
Goes debug a material, ends up buying a new printer. Your process is not good dude.
Petg at 265 whata re you doing lmao
Why not go direct drive?