Loving Lords of War channel recently and the increase in Underworlds content. Hope you guys on happy about your pivot to becoming an Underworlds focused channel!
Funnily enough, the recent GW HQ tournaments for this, 40k, old world, and aos, etc… embergard sold out pretty quick, along with old world and 40k, the only one that has not sold out is the AoS spearhead one (subject to change).
Regarding Oldhammer 40K, I agree with Chris that 3rd edition is the one to focus on. The original game, Rogue Trader, was derived from 2nd edition WFB and was still half a table top miniature game and half a role playing game. 3rd ed WFB and 1st ed WFRP were contemporary but a evolutionary development over 2nd ed WFB rather than a derivative set of rules. Rogue Trader evolved into 2nd edition 40K through a few years worth of White Dwarf articles rewriting the rules and gained it's modern lore with the release of Realms of Chaos. 2nd Edition was the first version of the rules that brought everything together in a coherent whole and the lore is immediately recognizable to modern fans. However, 2nd edition 40K and 4th and 5th edition WFB were boxed sets with lots of cards and tokens. It is hard to get everything together to play them now. 3rd ed 40K and 6th ed WFB are the oldest rules that are most accessible to posterity. Also the people that were young then, with 5th or 6th ed WFB or 3th or 4th ed 40K, are the prime target demographic now, as they hit middle age and start to look back. The Old World is a lot like a cross between Warhammer Historical and 6th edition WFB, with a lot of the minis from that era getting re-released. Some 1980's/90's models were OK. The first Eldar scouts and first gen Aspect warriors by Jess Goodwin held up well until the last few years. Some Realm of Chaos champions also mix in well with 6th ed WFB minis. In fact some were still produced into that ear. Examples are the Slaanesh snake champion and some Tzeentch champions. But yes, most of them are very dated and one needs some rose tinted glasses of nostalgia to fully appreciate the ascetics.
Love it. Always interesting to hear all the different dynamics of the hobby world . From GW to retail to even the mindset of the hobbyists and customers ! Thank u.
Definitely, my son and I are doing Old World. We played together back in 5th to 7th days. There’s a lot of nostalgia value there. In a similar vein, not sure why they couldn’t just use the Heresy engine and add the Xenos factions in.
Hit the nail on the head. Skaventide + Spearhead = perfect Storm(cast) to scurry in a reboot and get more people looking at it as another buy-in while the emberstone iron is hot. 🔥 Because despite the doubts on player numbers Warhammer World had 95 players UnderWorlds tournaments which is comparable to Nova sidegames tournies which had 80 players for TOW. With accurate rumor-guys(who predicted the Seraphon & Nurgle teams, right down to the “pot belly”) saying the next main 3 warbands will herald some big army focuses like chaos duardin & Crone Daughters of Khaine the commitment seems pretty solid to get it in the spotlight more.
I'll probably play the new Underworlds. I have several warbands of the previous edition that are painted, so I'm more likely to play that. I would play Underworlds: Blackstone or Underworlds: Hive Primus.
I don't know who this new version is for either; it looks so watered down from the original concept. My wife and I just played a game the other day ( we play elimination tourneys with multiple factions ), and there are great artworks like a Khorne marauder stabbing a nighthaunt with an illusory weapon. And it hit home that there are so many concepts that GW might not use because they can't figure out how to depict it with photoshops of minis. We also really liked seasons 3-4 the best. After that, the warbands are still great and the board sections look fantastic, but I hated that they started changing up the card backs. Who does that? Magic The Gathering lasted for decades and retired cards for official tourneys, but players at home can do whatever they want with their stuff easily. GW making the graphic design look worse every few years is an odd choice. Now it's Ronald McDonald color schemes I guess.
Personally, I believe it was Games Workshop's attempt to break into the collectible card game market. Seeing the success of Magic: The Gathering and the popularity of its tournament scene, they likely wanted to capture that dynamic with a fast-paced 1v1 game that could be played in 20-30 minutes. However, the major downside was the need to purchase expansion packs just to get specific cards, which turned a lot of people off. Additionally, I've never been a fan of the hex grid system. The constant re-releases of teams or gangs with updated cards, while discontinuing the older versions, was also a big negative for me. Initially, the game seemed to be aimed at being accessible with pocket money, but because you had to buy every expansion to access specific cards, it quickly became too expensive. On top of that, I was never a big fan of the Age of Sigmar-style miniatures.
I gave 8th edition 40k a shot because it was a return to the concepts they hadn't really included in the game since 2e, and it was more streamlined. I don't have a lot of interest in Horus Heresy because it seems to be based on a more recent version of 40k that I never played. That said, I've almost bought the Horus Heresy MK6 marines because of 90s nostalgia. I would love to see a return to something like the Rogue Trader era rules to make the game a bit more of a sandbox RPGish experience wear I could kitbash things like marines with shuriken rifles.
First time I’m seriously looking at Underworlds. For some reason, this edition feels more “contained”, more like a board game, in that I don’t feel like I’d really need anything other than the starter box. Like I’ve never felt the need to buy every version of Monopoly in order to have the different “skins”.
That’s a big upside to Embergard being the full edition box instead of multiple seasons board & faction deck changes that made some players feel like they had to keep up. Just need to focus on the new warbands, Rival decks and WD scenarios/events so looks a lot more chill.
I think there would be an opportunity to clean up the 2nd edition rules, the same way Necromunda went from the old rogue trader system to an updated version that is still recognisable. But I think you are right, they should go for 3rd edition’s aesthetics. I think ultimately what that market would want is a version of warhammer 40k, that feels like the old game, but it is easy to pick up and play. Especially since I don’t think it is going to be anyone’s main game.
I have very little interest in underworlds as a game, but I have to say that their sculpts are some of the finest GW has produced and I've picked up a couple boxes to use for conversions for other games.
I just assume Underworlds must have a player base that is more distinct from the other games. Might be particularly profitable, or maybe market research shows it is a good gateway to AoS.
@@wizardmanaia4664 beyond the kickstarter thing, they're going completely digital with licensed 3rd parties printing for them as well as selling stl and the rules are free... that leaves game stores out of the equation
Didn't they release the Rogue Trader rulebook a few years ago? Third edition seems too similar to what they're producing now. It might be better to go with the second edition and maybe incorporate some retro models. Sure, some of those models were pretty bad, but there were definitely some classics, and bringing them back could really capture that nostalgic feel.
I feel like Games Workshop has too many games out that just separate the player base. So many games that are so similar, no need to have 30 different games that are essentially the same. It also makes it hard for new players to get into Warhammer, like which one? it's overwhelming and I assume causes interested people to become uninterested.
I dont think so. Like we have for each major system (40k, 30k, aos) 2 sidegames. Kill team and necromunda are quite different sharing only the small model count. More or less. Legiones imperialis and titanicus are 2 sides of the same coin using the same models and have a different fokus of what they want to showcase. Warcry and underworlds seem to have quite different rules and use different models.
@@uwesca6263 I'm new so, for me it all looks pretty similar. It's a mountain of stuff to consider with info spread all over which is constantly being updated. I assure you, it's not good for anyone trying to get into the hobby.
I was really taken by Shadespire (Underworlds 1). Good game, very nice models with a small footprint. A fanboy of it early on. But it is GW. A "generation" is18 months at best. It is a cardgame and they changed the back of the cards. They already made each season break up the game before that (making some factions/cards ???). Just have to love GW for messing up their own stuff. The models have been very nice indeed, I have used them for skirmish games. The cardgame is long since dead to me but as long as great new models comes out I like it :) A 40K version with different scenarios (varied objectives) could be great fun. I bet many whould get a new faction and end up building a Kill Team then 40K force ...
Is underworlds simple enough for a 7 year old to play? I have never played it but bought a few warbands to paint. If it would make a nice self contained boardgame to play with my son i am quite likely to buy a copy.
I like underworlds for the kits just to use in Warcry or add to my FEC army. Ya not into ccg format games. Also please talk about Battletech's comeback!
@@Colorcrayons Lol. is it successful ? not from what i see around. Its settings is so bland that no one cares. Only interest is if you want a bare bone skirmish game without too much thinking.
@@jeancouscous Right. You dont see it, so how would you know unless you were told? The world doesnt revolve around your 6 block radius, as shocking as that seems for people to grasp anymore. I dont blame you for feeling the way you do about the game. Taste is like that. Just like I find 40K to be the most boring and outdated waste of time I could commit to punishing myself with. Doesnt make it a bad game or unsuccessful. Here is a short deductive reasoning string: If it wasnt so successful, then how did it get 4 huge big box releases and several narrow box releases, on top of its own terrain releases, in just the 22-24 season alone? You won't like the answer because the actual data conflicts directly with your small sample anecdotal evidence informed by confirmation bias. It got more releases than kill team did.
@jeancouscous It is. There financials keep saying it’s either surpassing expectations or just doing well. Like everytime AoS is on the backburner you can see the uptick in people pushing to play Warcry instead and the “is Warcry GW’s best system??” Videos pop out. With Spearhead encouraging even more smaller forces spread around it’s likely to grow again and people flip-flop between the two.(spearhead mini-AoS, Warcry vertical skirmish)
Loving Lords of War channel recently and the increase in Underworlds content. Hope you guys on happy about your pivot to becoming an Underworlds focused channel!
You know it. Our view count was getting out of hand needed to slow the train down 🤣
Also found your channel recently and just enjoying your daft casual chats.
Kill Team is warcry. There would be room for a 40K underworlds
YEAH BRING BACK GORKAMORKA!!!!!
My week isn't complete without garbage time. 💕
Bless
Funnily enough, the recent GW HQ tournaments for this, 40k, old world, and aos, etc… embergard sold out pretty quick, along with old world and 40k, the only one that has not sold out is the AoS spearhead one (subject to change).
Regarding Oldhammer 40K, I agree with Chris that 3rd edition is the one to focus on. The original game, Rogue Trader, was derived from 2nd edition WFB and was still half a table top miniature game and half a role playing game. 3rd ed WFB and 1st ed WFRP were contemporary but a evolutionary development over 2nd ed WFB rather than a derivative set of rules. Rogue Trader evolved into 2nd edition 40K through a few years worth of White Dwarf articles rewriting the rules and gained it's modern lore with the release of Realms of Chaos. 2nd Edition was the first version of the rules that brought everything together in a coherent whole and the lore is immediately recognizable to modern fans.
However, 2nd edition 40K and 4th and 5th edition WFB were boxed sets with lots of cards and tokens. It is hard to get everything together to play them now. 3rd ed 40K and 6th ed WFB are the oldest rules that are most accessible to posterity. Also the people that were young then, with 5th or 6th ed WFB or 3th or 4th ed 40K, are the prime target demographic now, as they hit middle age and start to look back. The Old World is a lot like a cross between Warhammer Historical and 6th edition WFB, with a lot of the minis from that era getting re-released.
Some 1980's/90's models were OK. The first Eldar scouts and first gen Aspect warriors by Jess Goodwin held up well until the last few years. Some Realm of Chaos champions also mix in well with 6th ed WFB minis. In fact some were still produced into that ear. Examples are the Slaanesh snake champion and some Tzeentch champions. But yes, most of them are very dated and one needs some rose tinted glasses of nostalgia to fully appreciate the ascetics.
Love it. Always interesting to hear all the different dynamics of the hobby world . From GW to retail to even the mindset of the hobbyists and customers ! Thank u.
Definitely, my son and I are doing Old World. We played together back in 5th to 7th days. There’s a lot of nostalgia value there. In a similar vein, not sure why they couldn’t just use the Heresy engine and add the Xenos factions in.
Hit the nail on the head. Skaventide + Spearhead = perfect Storm(cast) to scurry in a reboot and get more people looking at it as another buy-in while the emberstone iron is hot. 🔥
Because despite the doubts on player numbers Warhammer World had 95 players UnderWorlds tournaments which is comparable to Nova sidegames tournies which had 80 players for TOW.
With accurate rumor-guys(who predicted the Seraphon & Nurgle teams, right down to the “pot belly”) saying the next main 3 warbands will herald some big army focuses like chaos duardin & Crone Daughters of Khaine the commitment seems pretty solid to get it in the spotlight more.
I'll probably play the new Underworlds. I have several warbands of the previous edition that are painted, so I'm more likely to play that.
I would play Underworlds: Blackstone or Underworlds: Hive Primus.
Underworld has amazing minis but then you feel bad having to toss in the bin all this cardboard... No one wanted it even if i pay them lol
I don't know who this new version is for either; it looks so watered down from the original concept. My wife and I just played a game the other day ( we play elimination tourneys with multiple factions ), and there are great artworks like a Khorne marauder stabbing a nighthaunt with an illusory weapon. And it hit home that there are so many concepts that GW might not use because they can't figure out how to depict it with photoshops of minis.
We also really liked seasons 3-4 the best. After that, the warbands are still great and the board sections look fantastic, but I hated that they started changing up the card backs. Who does that? Magic The Gathering lasted for decades and retired cards for official tourneys, but players at home can do whatever they want with their stuff easily. GW making the graphic design look worse every few years is an odd choice. Now it's Ronald McDonald color schemes I guess.
If they were gonna retool and start over I was actually hoping for Underworlds 40k...unique pose 40k models with cool sculpts? Yes please.
Personally, I believe it was Games Workshop's attempt to break into the collectible card game market. Seeing the success of Magic: The Gathering and the popularity of its tournament scene, they likely wanted to capture that dynamic with a fast-paced 1v1 game that could be played in 20-30 minutes. However, the major downside was the need to purchase expansion packs just to get specific cards, which turned a lot of people off. Additionally, I've never been a fan of the hex grid system. The constant re-releases of teams or gangs with updated cards, while discontinuing the older versions, was also a big negative for me. Initially, the game seemed to be aimed at being accessible with pocket money, but because you had to buy every expansion to access specific cards, it quickly became too expensive. On top of that, I was never a big fan of the Age of Sigmar-style miniatures.
I gave 8th edition 40k a shot because it was a return to the concepts they hadn't really included in the game since 2e, and it was more streamlined. I don't have a lot of interest in Horus Heresy because it seems to be based on a more recent version of 40k that I never played. That said, I've almost bought the Horus Heresy MK6 marines because of 90s nostalgia.
I would love to see a return to something like the Rogue Trader era rules to make the game a bit more of a sandbox RPGish experience wear I could kitbash things like marines with shuriken rifles.
Horus Heresy is just 3rd edition space marine vs space marine.
First time I’m seriously looking at Underworlds. For some reason, this edition feels more “contained”, more like a board game, in that I don’t feel like I’d really need anything other than the starter box. Like I’ve never felt the need to buy every version of Monopoly in order to have the different “skins”.
That’s a big upside to Embergard being the full edition box instead of multiple seasons board & faction deck changes that made some players feel like they had to keep up.
Just need to focus on the new warbands, Rival decks and WD scenarios/events so looks a lot more chill.
Embergard seems to be underworlds with all the flavor gone and all the Upper management choices for product left
I think there would be an opportunity to clean up the 2nd edition rules, the same way Necromunda went from the old rogue trader system to an updated version that is still recognisable. But I think you are right, they should go for 3rd edition’s aesthetics.
I think ultimately what that market would want is a version of warhammer 40k, that feels like the old game, but it is easy to pick up and play. Especially since I don’t think it is going to be anyone’s main game.
I have very little interest in underworlds as a game, but I have to say that their sculpts are some of the finest GW has produced and I've picked up a couple boxes to use for conversions for other games.
To be fair, GW did give us the rogue trader rulebook to play!
Just wait for the follow up video for this game 😉
tim horton channel sponsorship when
If the units become a top meta choice then every AoS player of one of those two armies will buy 1-3
I just assume Underworlds must have a player base that is more distinct from the other games. Might be particularly profitable, or maybe market research shows it is a good gateway to AoS.
In my experience it's mostly bought by people looking for great models to paint.
A 40k version would have been an auto buy for me!
I am very torn on this!
I'll answer the question before even watching.
To get models for mordheim and warcry. And bolster the new stormcasttide.
Talk about trench crusade and how their business model is completely bypassing LGS.
Been like that since the beginning of kickstarter. That is literally the reason for using kickstarter.
@@wizardmanaia4664 beyond the kickstarter thing, they're going completely digital with licensed 3rd parties printing for them as well as selling stl and the rules are free... that leaves game stores out of the equation
I like it and plan to buy it
Can we get a video of you two playing Emberguard?
No need for product quality! Just you two playing and talking, same camera angle, same table... 😁
13:51 hey hey hey, calm down I spend that Pokémon money in YOUR store :p
They are characters and conversion pieces for the other games that is all.
Didn't they release the Rogue Trader rulebook a few years ago? Third edition seems too similar to what they're producing now. It might be better to go with the second edition and maybe incorporate some retro models. Sure, some of those models were pretty bad, but there were definitely some classics, and bringing them back could really capture that nostalgic feel.
garbage time is the best part
I feel like Games Workshop has too many games out that just separate the player base. So many games that are so similar, no need to have 30 different games that are essentially the same. It also makes it hard for new players to get into Warhammer, like which one? it's overwhelming and I assume causes interested people to become uninterested.
I dont think so. Like we have for each major system (40k, 30k, aos) 2 sidegames.
Kill team and necromunda are quite different sharing only the small model count. More or less.
Legiones imperialis and titanicus are 2 sides of the same coin using the same models and have a different fokus of what they want to showcase.
Warcry and underworlds seem to have quite different rules and use different models.
@@uwesca6263 I'm new so, for me it all looks pretty similar. It's a mountain of stuff to consider with info spread all over which is constantly being updated. I assure you, it's not good for anyone trying to get into the hobby.
I at least made my kids actually play the Pokémon game. I did not have any but I had early MTG.
If they would rerelease 2nd 40K in the same box then it would sell like bread.
I was really taken by Shadespire (Underworlds 1). Good game, very nice models with a small footprint. A fanboy of it early on. But it is GW. A "generation" is18 months at best. It is a cardgame and they changed the back of the cards. They already made each season break up the game before that (making some factions/cards ???). Just have to love GW for messing up their own stuff. The models have been very nice indeed, I have used them for skirmish games. The cardgame is long since dead to me but as long as great new models comes out I like it :)
A 40K version with different scenarios (varied objectives) could be great fun. I bet many whould get a new faction and end up building a Kill Team then 40K force ...
I’m not getting sucked back in to 40k. Unless they come out with some rad looking Primaris Grey Knights or something.
Lots of little games to keep people in the universe and give the competition no place to get a foothold.
I'm not going to be buying any underworlds stuff. I'm buying AoS dragons.
Is underworlds simple enough for a 7 year old to play? I have never played it but bought a few warbands to paint. If it would make a nice self contained boardgame to play with my son i am quite likely to buy a copy.
I think warcry would be easier as a starting minis game. Underworlds has lots of reading (which could be good or bad) on the cards.
I like underworlds for the kits just to use in Warcry or add to my FEC army. Ya not into ccg format games. Also please talk about Battletech's comeback!
yes yes; rats rats ;] engenerr ;]
They should just Batgirl these tbh
More stripped and watered down kits. Garbage systems.
Hersey is a historical game, honestly, most historical gamers are way more chill about uniform and colour accuracy
It's actually pronounced 'Ehrmargerd!'.
Lol
They tr8ed a 40k version with Combat Arena didn't they?
Nobody. Why play this when mordheim or mesbg are there... the aos lore just isn't good enough to carry a skirmish game.
Curious. I wonder why Warcry is so successful then.
@@Colorcrayons Lol. is it successful ? not from what i see around. Its settings is so bland that no one cares. Only interest is if you want a bare bone skirmish game without too much thinking.
Ok boomer.
@@jeancouscous Right. You dont see it, so how would you know unless you were told? The world doesnt revolve around your 6 block radius, as shocking as that seems for people to grasp anymore.
I dont blame you for feeling the way you do about the game. Taste is like that.
Just like I find 40K to be the most boring and outdated waste of time I could commit to punishing myself with. Doesnt make it a bad game or unsuccessful.
Here is a short deductive reasoning string: If it wasnt so successful, then how did it get 4 huge big box releases and several narrow box releases, on top of its own terrain releases, in just the 22-24 season alone? You won't like the answer because the actual data conflicts directly with your small sample anecdotal evidence informed by confirmation bias.
It got more releases than kill team did.
@jeancouscous
It is. There financials keep saying it’s either surpassing expectations or just doing well.
Like everytime AoS is on the backburner you can see the uptick in people pushing to play Warcry instead and the “is Warcry GW’s best system??” Videos pop out.
With Spearhead encouraging even more smaller forces spread around it’s likely to grow again and people flip-flop between the two.(spearhead mini-AoS, Warcry vertical skirmish)