It was a good call, Glorfindel being most likely the most powerful being in middle earth at the time, he raised a lot of questions that you would need to take the time to answer, instead showing more Aragorn/Arwen was a nice touch. It's always annoying when favorites like Glorfindel and Bombadil are taken out of scripts, but it makes sense if you want to tell the story within 3-4 hours.
Yeah, I remember a discussion of what would've happened if Glorfindel accompanied the Fellowship, and it basically comes down to "This dude would've soloed the Balrog no problem and absolutely wiped the floor with pretty everything they met, BUT that would've drawn so much attention that the goal would be compromised."
@@JB-xl2jc i think there was also a thing where because he had recently returned to life, his spirit shown brightly and the ringwraiths and other beings with a foot in the spirit world could see him lies aways
More than this: Tolkien himself loved the story very much and had this to say: “Here I am only concerned with Death as part of the nature, physical and spiritual, of Man, and with Hope without guarantee. That is why I regard the tale of Arwen and Aragorn as the most important of the Appendices; it is part of the essential story, and is only placed so, because it could not be worked into the main narrative without destroying its structure: which is planned to be 'hobbito-centric', that is, primarily a study of the ennoblement (or sanctification) of the humble.”
Some people don't like the change but I liked it. When she said " if you want him come and claim him" was great. Peter changed the character just enough to get us to care about her.
Yes, I believe Peter took inspiration from the character of Luthien, who gets to do much more exciting things than poor Arwen (in the Silmarillion she personally fights Sauron AND Morgoth!).
The books were supposed to be all about hobbits, and all other characters were sidelined. I quite like how in the movies, the rest of the characters are also quite important.
This is partly true. In the LOTR trilogy, she is the one who makes Aragorn's standard, which signals the Return of the King Besides, I personally think her character was meant to symbolize the wives of men at war.
I loved Eowyn as a child. Expanding Arwen into 'warrior princess' and diminishing actual warrior princess Eowyn into granola girl was misogynistic and ruined both characters for me.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2qdiminished her character um “I AM NO MAN” 😂 don’t think so try again. My biggest beef was that Aragon had to choose between two total baddies.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2q eowyn was just an annoying character. but why are you putting down her role in killing the WITCH KING OF ANGMAR? LOL you're the one who doesn't see her accomplishments
I always think this school of thought is funny. Those who know, know. She was beyond powerful and always omnipresent in driving Aragorn’s story. Weaving standards, gifting healing crystals, giving up her place in Valinor. Believed to be Luthien incarnate who herself could bring the Spring with the power of her singing. We have a Buddy/Road Trip story set against an epic backdrop saving the world of Kings and all the while the most powerful characters were having stories of awakening and slaying Witch Kings and giving gifts of Elven Magic and Wisdom and creating invisible walls of bewilderment around their own country later coming out to throw down the walls of Dol Gildur and driving Sauron from the forest.
Arwen wild ride from the Nazguls was EPIC! I've watched this scene a dozen times and I STILL find myself sitting on the edge of my seat urging my imaginary horse to GO FASTER!
As it relates to Arwen & Aragorn, do you really think the books are more hopeful? As I read the books & indices so long ago, it all kinda blurs together, but what you mean by "hopeful"? The movie's version explains why Arwen is willing to face her fate. I think everything in the movies makes their love as beautiful and epic as Beren and Lúthien. Did I not get your point?
I think it's probably because they changed Aragorn for the films. In the books, Aragorn absolutely wants to become King for Arwen, it's a huge part of his motivation. Aragorn being a reluctant leader in the film is more relatable for the audience, but it makes it seem like he and Arwen being together was a pipedream and a kind of doomed love. Whereas they're literally already engaged in the books, so it's just a matter of Aragorn becoming King that's left, Elrond already gave his permission for them to marry on that condition.
What most people seem to forget is that authors tend to write what they're familiar with. Tolkien spent most of his time amongst his fellow soldiers in WWI, ergo most of the prominent characters in his books are men.
Yeah but Liv Tyler did a fantastic job Yeah we didn't get Glorfindel but I think giving Arwen a more prominent role added to the narrative without having to explain the long history of Glorfindel in a movie that already has a very long run time and non die hards probably wouldnt be keen on the extra lore and run time at that stage
@@aegorbittersteel2154 dude i find you in every comment section. ASOIAF most of the times but its getting mad. Already seen you like 26 times this past year XD
I was really disappointed when we lost Glorfindel, but I understand why they gave Arwen his role. It was basically a cinematic necessity, otherwise from the perspective of the other characters, Arwen basically just turns up for the wedding. On top of that, even three very long movies wasn't really enough to adapt the Lord of the rings trilogy in it's entirety. Peter Jackson had to cut out a lot. However, back when I was younger, I always believed that The Lord of the Rings couldn't really be adapted, and I kind of still do. You'd need more movies and some magic. But Peter Jackson still pulled off something amazing. As soon as I saw the first trailer, it was like seeing Middle-Earth come to life. I just wish he'd been given more time to prepare and fine tune things when did The Hobbit, instead of being suddenly dumped into the director's seat when Del Toro left, and only being given a short time to pick up the pieces. Anyway Lord of the Rings isn't really a romance, it's more of a war story. However, it's female characters are definitely still treated with respect.
@@thegrunbeld6876 It wasn't about being woke. If Arwen's role had been portrayed exactly as it had been in the Lord of the Rings books, in the movie, they would have basically just mentioned her a few times, and then she'd have finally just turned up in time for the wedding. And the audience would have probably been wondering who she was. That's why they had to make some cinematic alterations. Giving her Glorfindel's role introduced her character to the audience (as I said I WAS disappointed about losing Glorfindel, but the more I looked into the creation of the LOTR movies, and by the final movie, I understood why Jackson did what he did) and it was developed further, tying it with the reforging of Narsil, and Aragorn's destiny as the King of Gondor, and herself as his Queen. Jackson was thinking about the story, not politics. VERY different from what the Rings of Power people were doing.
Tolkien would have considered the appendices part of the novel, and Arwen has a lot of lines in there. In addition, as others have pointed out, she does have lines in RoTK proper when speaking with Frodo in Minas Tirith.
Jackson’s LOTR trilogy is an cinematic adaptation of the novels,of course there would be changes to the narrative,overall l think he did a fantastic job in keeping with the spirit of the Professor’s work 🤔
The director made a very good decision. Most of the romances in Tolkien's work are more fairly tale in their depiction which is whimsical at best but really doesn't give much meat on film. Giving the female love interest something to do and be besides being the damsel was a very good decision.
It was a good decision to leave out Glorfindel. Glorfindel should never have been in the novel to start with. The only reason he's there was because of a mistake Tolkien made. Tolkien forgot that he already used the name Glorfindel in the Silmarillion. And since Elves can't duplicate names, and Tolkien didn't have time to revise it, he decided that the Glorfindel in LoTR was the same Glorfindel in The Silmarillion. Problem is, it left a massive plot hole in the novels, as well as a "Chekov's gun" scenario. Yes, even the great Tolkien made mistakes.
There are only two main female characters in the books (if at all with lines and impact on the story), Galadriel and Eowyn. An Elven-Queen Sorceress trained by the gods, and a Warrior-Princess who slay a minor dark lord, the Witch-King of Angmar.
I think because Tolkien was so influenced and inspired by WW1 and his time in the trenches, which was a male-only environment, that probably influenced his writing. But all the greatest adaptations change their source material for the better, in my opinion.
This makes me respect the film’s writers even more, because it really shows that they knew how to write great female characters. I’m shaken to know that it was 100% the film crew’s idea!
not exactly accurate.....Return of the King book she did have a few lines. It was in a conversation with Frodo. And much more is said in the Aragorn and Arwen story.
What Tolkien couldn't do narratively in the books while focusing on the humblle Hobbits, Jackson could do in film to augment the story by investing more in Aragorn and Arwen with real stakes for them with the outcome of the war.The choice to drop Glorindel was the right one because Arwen is central to Aragorn and hope.
I think she actually had some lines in The Return of the King when she gives her jewel to Frodo just before he sets off for the shire. IIRC, she and Aragorn are sitting in the courtyard of the tree. She tells Frodo that the jewel would help him when the pain gets too great and that he will take her place (it’s never explicitly said on one of the ships to the west but when you reread LOTR it’s like she’s foretelling his fate). It’s like her giving him her ticket on the ship. I think the change in the movie made a lot of sense. Tolkien himself might havr approved. After all, glorfindel is not really a part of the story. Arwen is in the appendices. And giving her glorfindel’s flight to the ford puts her more on a par with Luthien. It gives her character some weightiness. One final thing: I was a 12 yr old girl when I read LOTR for the first time and I didn’t feel left out at all. The hobbits are kind of sexless and their character arcs are not unlike what adolescents go through. I loved the female characters that Tolkien created. They are strong, courageous, and courageous. He didn’t write girly girls.
I liked her expanded presence, but in the films Arwen’s character felt too human to me. (I realize that she is in fact part human, but that doesn’t really come through in the books). I also didn’t like the way her relationship with Aragorn was changed for the films. While I understand that putting her life in jeopardy upped the stakes, Aragorn breaking faith with her didn’t sit right. They had pledged themselves to each other some 60 years before, and not on a whim. It might have been rendered differently. One thing that really bothered me was the complete absence of Aragorn and Arwen’s daughters. Yes, they have a son, and as the heir he is very important, but there were three or four girls as well. For Arwen I think the possibility of any child would have been a dealbreaker for going into the West. K. Ranted. Thank you, needed that 😊
Glorfindel wasnt not removed from the movies, not "technically" at least. He was in the council of Elrond, he was only removed (replaced) from that scene
On one hand their love being a static unchanging fact is very sweet in the world we live in now. On the other hand Horses and moths got treated like people as much as women did in the books.
@@PrinceDaemonTargaryen Incorrect. You are wrong according to the depiction in the film, which is what I was referring to. What an asinine way of communicating you have. 🤮
I think if he'd been included and portrayed accurately, audiences would have wondered why he didn't accompany the Fellowship. And his back story would have eaten up precious screen time. Leave out the back story and how overpowered he is, and you get just another elf, like Haldir or someone. So they gave Arwen that role, which served the purpose of introducing her better as a believable love interest for Aragorn.
I thought this change was beautiful. It really meshed well and Jackson taking some creative license in order to get people emotionally involved more through those choices worked so well. 💜
Arwen sewed the flag of Elendil and the kings of Gondor which Aragorn unfurled from the bow of his ship as he sailed up the Anduin with the army from the South
I like the idea one commenter on another video put out, that Peter Jackson probably couldn't think of an actor who could be magnificent enough to do Glorfindel justice, so he cut him out entirely.
There are no significant women in the hobit. The rings had Galadriel, and Eowin, and in the film Arwen. But most mentioned men are not married, widowed, or have a wife far away (Gimli).
At least in the Silmarillion book, Tolkien was able to add in more female characters and give them a role to play despite being a prequel to the The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.
I think most of The Silmarillion was written prior to Hobbit and LotR, at least the stories in some form, JRRT did continually make changes to the backstory.
She was an amazing character. Although I've seen all of the movies, I've only read one of the books, The Hobbit. I enjoyed J. R. R. Tolkien in school. His work centered on the study of Old English literature, especially Beowulf, which is one of my favorite literature pieces. Ugh, to read or not to read? What's the best reading order. I would think... 1. The Hobbit 2. The Fellowship of the Ring 3. The Two Towers 4. The Return of the King. “The road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow, if I can."
I thought Arwen spoke a little bit at the end of Return of the King book when she gave Frodo a special stone and her place on the ships to Valinor. She didn’t speak there?
As a LOTR nerd woman, I really liked how PJ gave the female characters some screen time in the movies and emphasized the female characters. As women, we want female characters to be important figures too. The women in PJ's films are truly strong and warrior figures that force people to respect them. I like that difference between movies and books. Glorfindel is a great character, yet instead of him, Arwen is a logical and pleasing choice.
@@OrroHelhammer I was going to ask on what basis you assumed that, but then I saw your other comment. You're just an another meatball brain who thinks only men enjoy fantasy universes like Lord of the Rings. So it doesn't matter to me what you say and vice versa.
@@OrroHelhammerNo I didn't. And I was going to ask on what the hell basis you assumed that, but then I saw your other comment. You're just an another meatball brain who thinks only men enjoy fantasy universes like Lord of the Rings, so it doesn't really matter what you say
Arwen's rescue of Frodo was ABSOLUTELY depicted in the books & was quite accurately portrayed in the Fellowship of the Ring. She did carry Frodo - unconscious & near death - on horseback whilst racing to avoid the Black Riders. She absolutely did cross the river bordering Rivendell, turn to the Black Riders on the far bank and challenge them to take Frodo from her. Arwen was ABSOLUTELY depicted as having a special power in Rivendell where she commanded the waters of the river to flood instantaneously & Tolkien described the waters as appearing as White Horses in 'flood front' wave of churning waters. Arwen was central to Aragorn's motivation to even take the sword of Anduril and go raise the army of the dead. It was Elrond's visit & mention that Arwen was 'failing' in elven immortality that prompted Elrond to even bother to reforge the sword & deliver it to Aragorn. Don't diminish characters of the book. Research them properly yourself from Tolkien's own material.
Of course most of the female characters didn't have any prominent roles in the books, there were no female characters part of the main cast, hell outside of the main cast, most of the male characters didn't have very prominent roles either, I'm glad that they had more prominent roles in the movies, but I'm not mad that Tolkien himself decided to go this route he had a vision, and clearly he didn't imagine any of his main characters to be female.
My dad HATED Peter Jackson’s renditions of the books lol. When he saw Arwen coming to meet the party instead of Glorfindel, he literally just got up and left the movie theater lol. I like the books and the movies. They’re both great in their own right.
Just because she doesn't swing a sword doesn't mean she's an insignificant detail.... and so what if the story didn't include arwen so much!? If I was talking about ww2 and you made a movie about it talking about how much queen Elizabeth effected things at the time and made hee wonder woman... that's on you...
I know that Arwen rescuing Frodo by horse was an ad-on and I know that Peter Jackson would have expanded the lady roles because it seems like a good narrative play and that these books were written in a time when diversity, equity, and inclusion were words that were not commonly thrown around in Hollywood or at all.
That's one thing I disliked about Tolkien....he underestimee and stereotyped female characters Except galadriel Peter Jackson did great on giving arwen a greater role Even Introducing tauriel in the Hobbit was a good idea
@@SirLofHearthaven you have a point Personally she broke the stereotypes and was symbolically important for defeating the witch king Cause as per prophecy no man can defeat him except a woman But he overemphasised on her nurturing role which can be exhausting even for trad wives who admit it
Well, I didn’t read the books but I am not surprised that J.R.R. Token was a “man of his time”. He was good friends with C.S. Lewis and both of them influenced each other’s work. C.S. Lewis was a “man of his time”; misogynistic, racist, and Islamophobic. I have read all of C.S. Lewis’s Chronicles of Narnia as kid and couldn’t get over anti-Asiatic sentiment he held. The Calormen of Narnia (a.k.a the evil people) had dark skin, black hair, curved sword and prayed to a monster called Tash, who was an evil manifestation of Aslan. Meanwhile the good guys had white skin, light hair, straight swords and prayed to Aslan, the true god. Not to mention Susan (big sister) looses her privileges to come to Narnia because she lost her innocence and started caring about fashion and lipsticks.
Have you read mere Christianity by Lewis? I think one page one or 4 it talks about having 1 or 4 wives (philosophically wise) and I showed my Muslim coworker and he laughed in approval so hard. Lewis was atheist at first
It was a good call, Glorfindel being most likely the most powerful being in middle earth at the time, he raised a lot of questions that you would need to take the time to answer, instead showing more Aragorn/Arwen was a nice touch. It's always annoying when favorites like Glorfindel and Bombadil are taken out of scripts, but it makes sense if you want to tell the story within 3-4 hours.
Yeah, I remember a discussion of what would've happened if Glorfindel accompanied the Fellowship, and it basically comes down to "This dude would've soloed the Balrog no problem and absolutely wiped the floor with pretty everything they met, BUT that would've drawn so much attention that the goal would be compromised."
@@JB-xl2jc i think there was also a thing where because he had recently returned to life, his spirit shown brightly and the ringwraiths and other beings with a foot in the spirit world could see him lies aways
@@JB-xl2jcperhaps it was mentioned that he was born again stronger, but didnt he die in the process the last time he solo'd a balrog?
@@dustinscheller44 He did.
Bombadil is cancer, so personally I'm really glad they dropped him.
More than this: Tolkien himself loved the story very much and had this to say:
“Here I am only concerned with Death as part of the nature, physical and spiritual, of Man, and with Hope without guarantee. That is why I regard the tale of Arwen and Aragorn as the most important of the Appendices; it is part of the essential story, and is only placed so, because it could not be worked into the main narrative without destroying its structure: which is planned to be 'hobbito-centric', that is, primarily a study of the ennoblement (or sanctification) of the humble.”
Finally, a great comment, thanks!
Some people don't like the change but I liked it. When she said " if you want him come and claim him" was great. Peter changed the character just enough to get us to care about her.
what. she barely managed to roleplay more than a trophy wife.
Yes, I believe Peter took inspiration from the character of Luthien, who gets to do much more exciting things than poor Arwen (in the Silmarillion she personally fights Sauron AND Morgoth!).
She was very important to the books. She was Aragorn's driving motivation, and also test of character while in Rohan.
Yes! And she did have spoken lines in Return of the King in the chapter 'Many Partings'
The books were supposed to be all about hobbits, and all other characters were sidelined.
I quite like how in the movies, the rest of the characters are also quite important.
It was a wonderful addition to the story. I love her character. The actress chosen was perfect.
Liv Tyler was spectacular. There's no actress that can really make you break down and cry just watching her cry like she can.
This is partly true. In the LOTR trilogy, she is the one who makes Aragorn's standard, which signals the Return of the King Besides, I personally think her character was meant to symbolize the wives of men at war.
I loved Eowyn as a child. Expanding Arwen into 'warrior princess' and diminishing actual warrior princess Eowyn into granola girl was misogynistic and ruined both characters for me.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2q
Eowyn was a badass warrior princess and she helped take down the Witch King, wtf are you talking about?? Lol
@@user-wi9hv2pb2qdiminished her character um “I AM NO MAN” 😂 don’t think so try again. My biggest beef was that Aragon had to choose between two total baddies.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2q eowyn was just an annoying character. but why are you putting down her role in killing the WITCH KING OF ANGMAR? LOL you're the one who doesn't see her accomplishments
@@user-wi9hv2pb2q.. did we watch the same movies...?
This was a good call. Their love story was a crucial part of why Aragon returned as the king.
Arwen did have lines in Return of the King book when she offers Frodo her jewel
I was going to say!
@@duxpeccatorum Yes, thank you.
She also offers Frodo her place on the ship to sail to the Undying Lands, which he eventualy takes of course.
I always think this school of thought is funny. Those who know, know. She was beyond powerful and always omnipresent in driving Aragorn’s story. Weaving standards, gifting healing crystals, giving up her place in Valinor. Believed to be Luthien incarnate who herself could bring the Spring with the power of her singing. We have a Buddy/Road Trip story set against an epic backdrop saving the world of Kings and all the while the most powerful characters were having stories of awakening and slaying Witch Kings and giving gifts of Elven Magic and Wisdom and creating invisible walls of bewilderment around their own country later coming out to throw down the walls of Dol Gildur and driving Sauron from the forest.
Arwen wild ride from the Nazguls was EPIC! I've watched this scene a dozen times and I STILL find myself sitting on the edge of my seat urging my imaginary horse to GO FASTER!
Actually arwen had spoken dialogue in the novels. At the end of return of the king Frodo spoke with her and Aragorn in Minas Tirith
As it relates to Arwen & Aragorn, do you really think the books are more hopeful? As I read the books & indices so long ago, it all kinda blurs together, but what you mean by "hopeful"? The movie's version explains why Arwen is willing to face her fate. I think everything in the movies makes their love as beautiful and epic as Beren and Lúthien. Did I not get your point?
I think it's probably because they changed Aragorn for the films. In the books, Aragorn absolutely wants to become King for Arwen, it's a huge part of his motivation. Aragorn being a reluctant leader in the film is more relatable for the audience, but it makes it seem like he and Arwen being together was a pipedream and a kind of doomed love. Whereas they're literally already engaged in the books, so it's just a matter of Aragorn becoming King that's left, Elrond already gave his permission for them to marry on that condition.
@@matthewhart9610 Oohh. Thanks. I didn't notice that aspect but now that you mention it, it gives me a good excuse to re-read the trilogy 😉
@@11cabadgerone never needs an excuse to reread the LOTR trilogy!
@@joyfulyes what was i thinking😆
What most people seem to forget is that authors tend to write what they're familiar with. Tolkien spent most of his time amongst his fellow soldiers in WWI, ergo most of the prominent characters in his books are men.
Yeah but Liv Tyler did a fantastic job
Yeah we didn't get Glorfindel but I think giving Arwen a more prominent role added to the narrative without having to explain the long history of Glorfindel in a movie that already has a very long run time and non die hards probably wouldnt be keen on the extra lore and run time at that stage
Wow a new LOTR video I wonder if these are gonna be sprinkled in as nice treats for variety.
Yeah I hope people like it 😂
@@videobooks3I'm sure they will.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 dude i find you in every comment section. ASOIAF most of the times but its getting mad. Already seen you like 26 times this past year XD
@@r3dout691only 26?😄 What can I sayI'm just overly attached to this universe. Hopefully I haven't gotten to annoying.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 nah bro I respect the hustle. As a Blackfyre supporter I like familiar faces. Beneath the gold the bitter steel.
I was really disappointed when we lost Glorfindel, but I understand why they gave Arwen his role.
It was basically a cinematic necessity, otherwise from the perspective of the other characters, Arwen basically just turns up for the wedding.
On top of that, even three very long movies wasn't really enough to adapt the Lord of the rings trilogy in it's entirety.
Peter Jackson had to cut out a lot.
However, back when I was younger, I always believed that The Lord of the Rings couldn't really be adapted, and I kind of still do. You'd need more movies and some magic.
But Peter Jackson still pulled off something amazing. As soon as I saw the first trailer, it was like seeing Middle-Earth come to life.
I just wish he'd been given more time to prepare and fine tune things when did The Hobbit, instead of being suddenly dumped into the director's seat when Del Toro left, and only being given a short time to pick up the pieces.
Anyway Lord of the Rings isn't really a romance, it's more of a war story. However, it's female characters are definitely still treated with respect.
So, Peter Jackson is a woke afterall. Cancelled >:(
@@thegrunbeld6876what 😭
Glorfindel doesn't show up in most parts of the story anyway, if anything we hear more about her than him
@@thegrunbeld6876Everything you don’t agree with y’all call woke 🤦♀️
@@thegrunbeld6876 It wasn't about being woke. If Arwen's role had been portrayed exactly as it had been in the Lord of the Rings books, in the movie, they would have basically just mentioned her a few times, and then she'd have finally just turned up in time for the wedding.
And the audience would have probably been wondering who she was.
That's why they had to make some cinematic alterations. Giving her Glorfindel's role introduced her character to the audience (as I said I WAS disappointed about losing Glorfindel, but the more I looked into the creation of the LOTR movies, and by the final movie, I understood why Jackson did what he did) and it was developed further, tying it with the reforging of Narsil, and Aragorn's destiny as the King of Gondor, and herself as his Queen.
Jackson was thinking about the story, not politics. VERY different from what the Rings of Power people were doing.
She added Great Love To The Movie.
Tolkien would have considered the appendices part of the novel, and Arwen has a lot of lines in there. In addition, as others have pointed out, she does have lines in RoTK proper when speaking with Frodo in Minas Tirith.
i read he wanted to write more about her and aragorn but it didnt really fit so it went into the appendix
Jackson’s LOTR trilogy is an cinematic adaptation of the novels,of course there would be changes to the narrative,overall l think he did a fantastic job in keeping with the spirit of the Professor’s work 🤔
The director made a very good decision. Most of the romances in Tolkien's work are more fairly tale in their depiction which is whimsical at best but really doesn't give much meat on film. Giving the female love interest something to do and be besides being the damsel was a very good decision.
@@kaykween-b4k yeah all the differance between tokiens porterhouse steak, and jacksons 7/11 hot dog turning endlessly on its flanks.
I think it was a nod to Baren and Luthien. And telling Glorfindel's story would have demanded screen time from the main story.
It was a good decision to leave out Glorfindel. Glorfindel should never have been in the novel to start with. The only reason he's there was because of a mistake Tolkien made. Tolkien forgot that he already used the name Glorfindel in the Silmarillion. And since Elves can't duplicate names, and Tolkien didn't have time to revise it, he decided that the Glorfindel in LoTR was the same Glorfindel in The Silmarillion. Problem is, it left a massive plot hole in the novels, as well as a "Chekov's gun" scenario. Yes, even the great Tolkien made mistakes.
There are only two main female characters in the books (if at all with lines and impact on the story), Galadriel and Eowyn. An Elven-Queen Sorceress trained by the gods, and a Warrior-Princess who slay a minor dark lord, the Witch-King of Angmar.
Which both are awesome
Tom Bombodil's wife also makes an appearance if I'm not mistaken
@@azurastar3223 doesn't Goodberrry never speak though?
@lewismoreton4856 she does speak a few times
@@lewismoreton4856No, she does.
Well done!! This was a change for the better, imo.
The idea was fine, the execution was utterly lame, though.
I think because Tolkien was so influenced and inspired by WW1 and his time in the trenches, which was a male-only environment, that probably influenced his writing. But all the greatest adaptations change their source material for the better, in my opinion.
Of course, you’re entitled to your opinion, but it’s not one I agree with.
Agreed!
This makes me respect the film’s writers even more, because it really shows that they knew how to write great female characters. I’m shaken to know that it was 100% the film crew’s idea!
not exactly accurate.....Return of the King book she did have a few lines. It was in a conversation with Frodo. And much more is said in the Aragorn and Arwen story.
What Tolkien couldn't do narratively in the books while focusing on the humblle Hobbits, Jackson could do in film to augment the story by investing more in Aragorn and Arwen with real stakes for them with the outcome of the war.The choice to drop Glorindel was the right one because Arwen is central to Aragorn and hope.
Back then when directors given more to the character from books than less
Great call in the director 👏 because she was a beautiful woman idk her name but she was a fine as wine 🍷
Steve Tyler of Aerosmith is her dad, Liz Tyler. *Edit Liv, not Liz
There are more beautiful women to be sure.
Oh maaaannn are we getting LOTR did you knows? I’m so pumped 😁
Thank you I can touch her softness I think it situation that have so much stress like war this kind of character is so importance
I think she actually had some lines in The Return of the King when she gives her jewel to Frodo just before he sets off for the shire. IIRC, she and Aragorn are sitting in the courtyard of the tree. She tells Frodo that the jewel would help him when the pain gets too great and that he will take her place (it’s never explicitly said on one of the ships to the west but when you reread LOTR it’s like she’s foretelling his fate). It’s like her giving him her ticket on the ship.
I think the change in the movie made a lot of sense. Tolkien himself might havr approved. After all, glorfindel is not really a part of the story. Arwen is in the appendices. And giving her glorfindel’s flight to the ford puts her more on a par with Luthien. It gives her character some weightiness.
One final thing: I was a 12 yr old girl when I read LOTR for the first time and I didn’t feel left out at all. The hobbits are kind of sexless and their character arcs are not unlike what adolescents go through. I loved the female characters that Tolkien created. They are strong, courageous, and courageous. He didn’t write girly girls.
I liked her expanded presence, but in the films Arwen’s character felt too human to me. (I realize that she is in fact part human, but that doesn’t really come through in the books). I also didn’t like the way her relationship with Aragorn was changed for the films. While I understand that putting her life in jeopardy upped the stakes, Aragorn breaking faith with her didn’t sit right. They had pledged themselves to each other some 60 years before, and not on a whim. It might have been rendered differently.
One thing that really bothered me was the complete absence of Aragorn and Arwen’s daughters. Yes, they have a son, and as the heir he is very important, but there were three or four girls as well. For Arwen I think the possibility of any child would have been a dealbreaker for going into the West.
K. Ranted. Thank you, needed that 😊
Glorfindel wasnt not removed from the movies, not "technically" at least. He was in the council of Elrond, he was only removed (replaced) from that scene
Yep it was Glorfindel in the book that saved Frodo.
AyeeeeeeeLOTR content let’s goooo
On one hand their love being a static unchanging fact is very sweet in the world we live in now. On the other hand Horses and moths got treated like people as much as women did in the books.
Thank you Peter Jackson.
Theres a reason he fell for her. Im glad we got to see it.
She fell more so for him.
@@damac5136incorrect. Aragorn fell for her as soon as he met her when he was 20. She didn't reciprocate those feelings until he was 60.
@@PrinceDaemonTargaryen Incorrect. You are wrong according to the depiction in the film, which is what I was referring to. What an asinine way of communicating you have. 🤮
Yea but we lost Glorfindel who was sick! They should have given Arwen her spotlight and Glorfindel, the most powerful elf alive in the third age!
I think if he'd been included and portrayed accurately, audiences would have wondered why he didn't accompany the Fellowship. And his back story would have eaten up precious screen time. Leave out the back story and how overpowered he is, and you get just another elf, like Haldir or someone. So they gave Arwen that role, which served the purpose of introducing her better as a believable love interest for Aragorn.
Pls do more of lords of the rings shorts, I'm very invested into it.❤
Here is a theory, Theon is a descendant of Smeagol, since Smeagol turned to Gollum as Theon to Reek.
But who was Gollums wife then?
@@sarmaticus9155before he was gollum? So maybe when he was Smeagol he knocked someone up
I thought this change was beautiful. It really meshed well and Jackson taking some creative license in order to get people emotionally involved more through those choices worked so well. 💜
Agree.
She speaks to Frodo in return of the king. Their conversation is the reason he gets to go to the undying lands
Steven Tyler’s daughter the lead singer of Aerosmith . She did an amazing job . She is very beautiful .
Arwen sewed the flag of Elendil and the kings of Gondor which Aragorn unfurled from the bow of his ship as he sailed up the Anduin with the army from the South
I like the idea one commenter on another video put out, that Peter Jackson probably couldn't think of an actor who could be magnificent enough to do Glorfindel justice, so he cut him out entirely.
There are no significant women in the hobit. The rings had Galadriel, and Eowin, and in the film Arwen. But most mentioned men are not married, widowed, or have a wife far away (Gimli).
the legendarium i s full of great women tho
Arwen is proof that mystic elves can have dark hair and eyes and still come off as massively elegant ❤
Of course she is important, she just isn't an active player like éowyn.
At least in the Silmarillion book, Tolkien was able to add in more female characters and give them a role to play despite being a prequel to the The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.
I think most of The Silmarillion was written prior to Hobbit and LotR, at least the stories in some form, JRRT did continually make changes to the backstory.
The silmarillion was never really meant to be a book though, it was a bunch of tolkiens notes from his office. Little character histories
Was "able"? Hahaha
She was an amazing character. Although I've seen all of the movies, I've only read one of the books, The Hobbit. I enjoyed J. R. R. Tolkien in school. His work centered on the study of Old English literature, especially Beowulf, which is one of my favorite literature pieces.
Ugh, to read or not to read? What's the best reading order. I would think...
1. The Hobbit
2. The Fellowship of the Ring
3. The Two Towers
4. The Return of the King.
“The road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow, if I can."
I really like these new lotr videos
Peter Jackson and wife’s adaptation of LoTR is still the best
Wife?!?
i just realised I've been watching this gold for months and not even subbed, my bad
Me Halloween get up this year also playing Beth Dutton from Yellow stone! :)
I thought Arwen spoke a little bit at the end of Return of the King book when she gave Frodo a special stone and her place on the ships to Valinor. She didn’t speak there?
in the fellowship of the ring
Ela com uma aparência maravilhosa e bela quase irreal!
Ele como homem transpirado, meio selvagem!
A Bela e a Besta!
No wonder we never see her as a badass again after saving Frodo
As a LOTR nerd woman, I really liked how PJ gave the female characters some screen time in the movies and emphasized the female characters. As women, we want female characters to be important figures too. The women in PJ's films are truly strong and warrior figures that force people to respect them. I like that difference between movies and books. Glorfindel is a great character, yet instead of him, Arwen is a logical and pleasing choice.
I bet you loved rings of power too 🙄
@@OrroHelhammer I was going to ask on what basis you assumed that, but then I saw your other comment. You're just an another meatball brain who thinks only men enjoy fantasy universes like Lord of the Rings. So it doesn't matter to me what you say and vice versa.
@@OrroHelhammerNo I didn't. And I was going to ask on what the hell basis you assumed that, but then I saw your other comment. You're just an another meatball brain who thinks only men enjoy fantasy universes like Lord of the Rings, so it doesn't really matter what you say
What do you mean by more hopeful? I'm just interested.
Yes, I did know. Peter Jackson should have named his movies something else with all of the changes that he made.
At the time I didn’t care, she did a good job and good for her. Thinking about it in 2024 makes me feel tired
Arwen's rescue of Frodo was ABSOLUTELY depicted in the books & was quite accurately portrayed in the Fellowship of the Ring.
She did carry Frodo - unconscious & near death - on horseback whilst racing to avoid the Black Riders.
She absolutely did cross the river bordering Rivendell, turn to the Black Riders on the far bank and challenge them to take Frodo from her.
Arwen was ABSOLUTELY depicted as having a special power in Rivendell where she commanded the waters of the river to flood instantaneously & Tolkien described the waters as appearing as White Horses in 'flood front' wave of churning waters.
Arwen was central to Aragorn's motivation to even take the sword of Anduril and go raise the army of the dead.
It was Elrond's visit & mention that Arwen was 'failing' in elven immortality that prompted Elrond to even bother to reforge the sword & deliver it to Aragorn.
Don't diminish characters of the book.
Research them properly yourself from Tolkien's own material.
Now we are getting the War of the Rohirrm where the story of a strong male character seems to be overshadowed by his irrelevant daughter.
Yup
Of course most of the female characters didn't have any prominent roles in the books, there were no female characters part of the main cast, hell outside of the main cast, most of the male characters didn't have very prominent roles either, I'm glad that they had more prominent roles in the movies, but I'm not mad that Tolkien himself decided to go this route he had a vision, and clearly he didn't imagine any of his main characters to be female.
Btw you should do more Lord of the Rings videos.
My dad HATED Peter Jackson’s renditions of the books lol. When he saw Arwen coming to meet the party instead of Glorfindel, he literally just got up and left the movie theater lol. I like the books and the movies. They’re both great in their own right.
slightly dramatic dad lol
tbr hope he made peace with it , it hard to see thing you are passionate about get changed
The movie removed the greatest elf Glorfindel in 3rd age and now the series has removed Faenor the greatest elf in 1st and 2nd age
Instead of having more characters with no development, let's just let aragorns elf princess gf have a prominent part
Her prominent role in the Battle of Hammer Horn was less than important in the Two Towers 🎬
Well she’s “important”, but she’s largely off-screen and hinted at
I enjoyed having a female character in the movies.
I this about got. I was confused 😕 for a minute 😐 there.
I think it was good change
So we’re running low on GOT/HOTD commentary? I didn’t think I’ll see it happening
based tolkien
I feel like some of those shots are Tauriel from the hobbit?
They are all Arwen.
Just because she doesn't swing a sword doesn't mean she's an insignificant detail.... and so what if the story didn't include arwen so much!? If I was talking about ww2 and you made a movie about it talking about how much queen Elizabeth effected things at the time and made hee wonder woman... that's on you...
Peter Jackson is my lord and savior. He may actually be a filmographic genius
It was a good change
Peter Jackson, bring Arwen forward because he can't find an actor awesome enough to play Glorfindel.
The movies are just better
I know that Arwen rescuing Frodo by horse was an ad-on and I know that Peter Jackson would have expanded the lady roles because it seems like a good narrative play and that these books were written in a time when diversity, equity, and inclusion were words that were not commonly thrown around in Hollywood or at all.
Boy, that sounds like an "argument". ::puke::
That's one thing I disliked about Tolkien....he underestimee and stereotyped female characters
Except galadriel
Peter Jackson did great on giving arwen a greater role
Even Introducing tauriel in the Hobbit was a good idea
What about Eowyn?
@@SirLofHearthaven you have a point
Personally she broke the stereotypes and was symbolically important for defeating the witch king
Cause as per prophecy no man can defeat him except a woman
But he overemphasised on her nurturing role which can be exhausting even for trad wives who admit it
@@skullcandy9641 Ig that's fair enough. I presonally didn't mind, but that's just my opinion. Have a nice day:)
@@skullcandy9641 *personally
No he wrote the truth about women, are you genuinely doubting the man who wrote the dictionary?
Arwen has spoken lines in the books
She had spoken lines in the books.
I liked this
I liked her in the movies better than in the books
“Mentioned in the appendices” trying to act like there isn’t an entire story written there about it
In the books she was a motivation, not a character.
And if I say them changing the War of the Rohirrim is similar to this? What then? Already seeing people say it's woke. 😂
Yep 🤓😎✌🏼
Did you know Ashley Judd was also in line for the role of Arwyn… but um Harvey Weinstein was also involved in the way of that 👀
I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing!
Guess we doing LOTR now
"Prominent role" is overselling it.
She has like 10 minutes of screentime in a 12 hour trilogy
They need to rewrite the books for mOdErN aUdIeNcEs
The director being a legend right there
Well, I didn’t read the books but I am not surprised that J.R.R. Token was a “man of his time”. He was good friends with C.S. Lewis and both of them influenced each other’s work. C.S. Lewis was a “man of his time”; misogynistic, racist, and Islamophobic. I have read all of C.S. Lewis’s Chronicles of Narnia as kid and couldn’t get over anti-Asiatic sentiment he held. The Calormen of Narnia (a.k.a the evil people) had dark skin, black hair, curved sword and prayed to a monster called Tash, who was an evil manifestation of Aslan. Meanwhile the good guys had white skin, light hair, straight swords and prayed to Aslan, the true god. Not to mention Susan (big sister) looses her privileges to come to Narnia because she lost her innocence and started caring about fashion and lipsticks.
Have you read mere Christianity by Lewis? I think one page one or 4 it talks about having 1 or 4 wives (philosophically wise) and I showed my Muslim coworker and he laughed in approval so hard. Lewis was atheist at first
No gray characterizations, literal or otherwise, is a very good reason why a lot fewer people have heard of him and/or know his books/lore.