You just became the Bill Nye of outdoor gear testers! But seriously, this was great. I actually trust my downtek pieces a little more now. Another fun test is to try washing a downtek quilt or sleeping bag in the tub. It takes a lot of work to get it to actually soak! Oh, and perfect execution on the disclaimers at the end (per our previous YT comment convo). 👌
Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill! Thanks! I loved bill nye as a kid! I have not yet tried to wash one yet, but I bet it’s difficult. And I’m glad you approve of the disclaimer. I learned a lot form previous videos and comments like yours.
Thanks for taking the cold to increase awareness. While the DWR may in fact still insulate when the garment gets soaked, it's still best to not get soaked in the first place. The treated down jacket certainly didn't look comfortable when wet, but maybe could make a survival difference. You are right about the warmth from the Colorado sun. As soon as it goes down or the wind comes up you feel it right now.
This technology is a huge improvement. Taking down when wet from useless to not being. Not the complete disaster if it was to get a soaking, submerged. This is huge. Down when looked after will outlast synthetics. I'm not yet sure this treatment is permanent but may last 3/4s of a garment's life?? Much will be how often a garment has to be washed. And anyway the last quarter of a garments life it is looking pretty rough and no longer smart, but we all keep them for nostalgia and gardening. There is still a place for synthetics, immersion suits and high abrasive work. But down garments and sleeping systems are just such a joy.. This technology is a real boost to enjoying down. Videos such as this get the word out. Love the format and quality of your vids; nice work. Thank you.
I don’t own any down because of this reason. I use synthetics which means I use heavier and bulkier items than I could use (I also save some money). This is a huge game changer!!! If I can carry down without the issue of it getting wet…that’s worth the money! Thanks for braving the cold so we can get a good, honest review!
You may want to check out Outdoor Vitals NovaUL and NovaPro jackets. They are filled with 90% DWR-treated down, and 10% synthetic clusters to maintain even more loft when it gets wet. And the baffles are woven into the fabric instead of stitched. I wore mine as an outer layer for a full day of resort skiing while it was snowing the whole time, and it stayed perfectly dry.
Obviously all the clothing companies wanted to convince the public that synthetic insulation was as good as down with all their bs. Down is super expensive vs the polyester a systematic insulation that is literally made from garbage dump free plastic bottles. Companies been selling a primaloft jacket for $100 less than an identical down jacket yet it should cost 1/10 the price. Also synthetics like primaloft last less than a year if using daily. Unlike down which last forever if washed properly occasionally
Really well put together. And thanks for putting yourself through that ...very helpful. I have a lot of down gear and I protect it more than my children (and it's all hydro treated)
This video was really well made. Pacing and editing on point! Re the test, it's interesting to see. However down doesn't get wet because of being dumped in water usually. If you keep in the the backpack with a pack liner you could literally dump it in a stream and it would be dry. What makes down wet and impairs its function is humidity in the air or sweating into it when wearing it. When I was a Noob I once wore my down jacket to hike and it was falling apart after some time. Time is the issue here, humidity has all the time in the world to impair the down so in this regard your test isn't very telling. Then there's degradation of the treatment over time. Western Mountaineering which is a very knowledgeable producer notably doesn't use hydrophobic treatment (they explain why on their homepage). Thanks for the video!
I have recently bought a sleeping bag with dwr treated down. In my opinion this is the biggest invention in sleeping bags in recent times because it's really has all the advantages of down and fibers combined (aside from not being cheap). For clothing i still prefer fleece and wool over down for insulation though.
So far for clothing i mostly like wool.and fleece as well. I going to try a down jacket underneath a gortex hunting jacket but not sure if it would still loft under the weight. Ever tried it? Might try just a down vest (probably the only.way to make a down vest useful lol)
I think nobody will argue that DWR coating will help massively to counter the down-sides (pun intended). It would be interesting to have a temperature reading from under the jacket. With 2 more control jackets (one with untreated down and one with synthetic fibre) the relative temperature loss could be compared. That way we'd know how much the DWR treating improves the performance. All that being said: I find it to be an improbable scenario in the first place to be caught out in a down pour (pun not intended) in your mid layer only and not grabbing your rain gear. That's why you bring rain gear. As long as the water repelling treatment of the outer fabric can keep out the rain for 5mins, you should be good. So the ultimate question is then: can you and are you willing to afford a high class down jacket? Personally, I think that the question of down vs synthetic is more interesting in the sleeping system area where weather resisting features aren't that much of an issue any more (since you can just pack tham in a dry bag and you'd be using them in your shelter). The overall weight saving will always impact your pack weight. With your mid layer, you'll be wearing it most of the time so it's not in your bag anymore and wearing additional 100 or 200g spread over the whole of the jacket won't be noticeable. And since you'd be wearing it most of the time, packability won't be a huge factor either. So in my very very personal opinion: going down (pun not indended) for your mid layer instead of synthetics is more of a luxury question with less benefits than in your sleep system.
I appreciate your sacrifice for the greater good. I REALLY need you to test out the effectiveness of another product: bear spray on humans. And get it on film. It's for science, right?!?
I've experienced extreme weather with a flooded tent in alpine conditions and my DWR DownTek treated down quilt and jacket stayed mostly dry and kept me warm, it's definitely worth paying a little extra for the extra protection for those unforeseen times when your gear gets wet, especially on longer hikes or in remote areas.
I live in western Oregon. The fog will get you very wet even being under a tarp. I don't have any down except for some inherited sleeping bags. I might be interested in it now
I’m working on a video that should be able to take your old down gear and make it perform like the down in this video. It will be out next month sometime
I’m in the PNW so it’s very wet, I still prefer down for the weight and compressibility, but I also bring a light wool shawl which is very multifunctional and could do for a blanket especially combined with a fire
Ive always preferred to layer up than rely on 1 complicated piece of gear that has multiple fail points. So i do have down but never use it as a primary and hope it stays dry in the meantime.
I try to keep everything I bring as dry as possible. I don’t think wet ANYTHING is comfortable, because water can absorb quite a bit of heat, and it conducts heat really well. I usually bring a separate base layer to sleep in at night so that I don’t have to sleep in sweaty clothes for this reason.
Thank you for being so thorough in your experiments! i never heard of downtek. i wear synthetic down...i worry about animal cruelty but i am guessing (unless someone lets me know) that down feathers are collected from ducks when they are killed unlike fur plucked from rabbits when they are alive (in some cases i have seen). Downtek does seem like a great option since normal down can get wet and flat not even from rain water but from sweat
DownTek is Responsible Down Standard Certified which is supposed to ensure humane treatment of animals (down sourced from ducks killed for food etc.) I share your concerns for ethical treatment! I think the best thing we can do is continue to put pressure on these companies to ethically source their down and protect the environment. Thanks for watching!
@@MyLifeOutdoors The only real pressure you can exert is by simply not buying down products, and buying synthetic alternatives instead. 80% of down is sourced in China. It has been repeatedly shown that Chinese manufacturers don't care about animal cruelty in the slightest. Horrid practices like live plucking are still openly practiced, including by manufacturers associated with the "responsible down" standard. There is simply no way this is going to change, given the fact that it is so much more profitable if you can pluck a goose up to 16! times instead of just once.
Really interesting and useful review. This is what buying decisions can be thoughtfully based on when we're talking expensive gear. I very much appreciate the effort. (Much more useful than the Melanzana hoodie review from which my takeaway was basically "buy this because it's a good product, made in America, and they're really nice people and deserve your business". All of that may be true, but that's NOT what I base expensive buying decisions on.). By the way you ALMOST have me talked into "take a seat" but... whoa... that's one expensive seat.
You didn't have to say a word....Damn that was a solid test. It was amazing that it somehow stayed so lofty. I've been a little concerned of late that my prized Ghost Whisperer was the weakest link in my kit. I've been looking to replace it with the EE Torrid. Now I just have to see what I got. It was treated but I'm not sure it was loftek. I'm sure that stuff would wear off but you only get soaked out like that once or twice. Great video. I'm gonna go dunk mine
Thanks! It will eventually wear off. But it should take several soakings before it does. And I just don’t get my down wet that often. So I’m pretty pleased with this result.
I got a mountain Hardwear ghost whisperer it's treated down that can repel light rain but humid body heat Carrie's moisture and I found even treated down can't do much against it.
This was a fantastic review of dwr treated down , i definetly think very much like yourself , i get paranoid to point if i should even wear my down jackets as they can be quite pricey and dont want to ruin them , i do try to buy dwr treated down from now on , just as abit of reassurance incase rain does appear as the weather in scotland changes very quickly
I’m glad you did this experiment lol. I think the only thing I’d be curious about is flattening the jacket with a pack like if you were hiking in it. I think your test was well thought out though. I was stuck overnight in an odd location due to an emergency with an u treated d Old down bag and old untreated jacket. It was in the mid 30’s overnight. It added insult to injury, literally! It was brutal! I’ve been somewhat scared of depending on down since then, so thanks! 😀
I’m assuming the untreated down got wet? But it wasn’t enough to freeze? That’s something I didn’t think of. If wet down froze wile compressed. After this video I feel confident the down would loft back up as long as it wasn’t frozen. Even after being flattened in a pack. But obviously I can’t say for sure. Thanks for watching
I just use synthetic if there’s a chance of getting wet. I own 3 synthetic jackets and 1 down jacket. I live in Ireland so that’s probably the correct ratio because it rains. A lot.
Patagonia’s new Alplight is nice, but for the price & hype I’d like to see treated down if it’s to complete with synthetics. They used the encapsil down years ago but for only in 2-3 jackets
I think it would certainly help. Sweat introduces salt and oils which might cause the DWR to degrade faster but based on DownTek’s claims I think it would take quite a bit of sweat. Thanks for watching
So down *maintains* loft when wet, but could down also *regain* loft when wet? For example if the jacked got soaked, but in stead of wearing it immediately after, you stuff it in your stuff sack, continue hiking, get it out 5 hours later when setting up camp. Or it gets soaked while being stuffed down (without you knowing). Would the down fibers be sticking to each other then? Or would they still loft when wet?
I've used Nikwax in the past with similar results in terms of down loft. I didn't go to the extent of soaking stuff in a freeing stream, so nice job there! :)
If I’m not mistaken LoftTek is fully synthetic, and synthetics have always been able to get wet and still insulate. But there is no synthetic I know of that is as light weight as down. Even the most advanced synthetics can only match about 650 fill power down for the same weight. I think that’s what makes DownTek great. It maintains all the amazing properties of down while picking up some features of synthetics.
Just like all DWR coatings, they wear off in 5 years or less! I want an expensive jacket to last for more than just a few years and a few washes when the DWR wears off. A brand new rain jacket or other DWR coated gear beads water amazingly but my rain jackets don’t do it anymore
You can reapply DWR at home really easily. I’ve had great results and have a video about it. It won’t last as long as the factory application but it’s WAY cheaper than a new jacket.
Great test. I’m going have to check out your channel now. My question is what about the exterior material on this jacket? Does it have enough water repellent properties to shield the down? Would a coat with an inferior material allow the water to penetrate and soak the down more and give a different outcome? I’m going look into this product for my winter camping thanks
I started wondering the same thing. I’ve got a bunch of untreated loose down. I may look at trying to treat it at home for some kind of “make your own gear” type of deal.
I would be curious about how long wet down would need to dry in below freezing temperatures. You can dry wet clothes in freezing conditions very well. Should equally work with down feathers.
Yes the jacket outer has a DWR treatment as well. But not enough to keep water out in this kind of test as seen when I could ring water out of the skirt of the jacket. Even so…every bit helps in the real world
I just dont understand on a physical level how down can be a natural "so easy" material and yet not being copied using synthetic materials? why cant we imitate down better? like 3d scan and just make it out of polyester :/? Why does synthetic insulation have to look so "different" to down??
I wondered the same thing. One I don’t think this jacket has an exterior DWR treatment. And two, the fact that I was able to feel and squeeze water out of the baffles tells me it was able to get to the down. So I’m still fairly confident the treated down was doing it’s job.
Nice review! I agree, more for a winter system. It's pricey and a little on the heavier side. But seems to do well against the snow as well so good to know. Now we need this tech in an OV (nearly stitchless) jacket and a weight of around 8ozs or less and we're cooking for 3 season backpacking!
Love the video and of course your excellent beard. This treatment seems to really work, but so does the pearling treatment on jackets when they are new. How long can one expect this treatment to carry on working?
It’s a good question. DownTek claims the shake test (in the jar of water) will last for 1500 mins of straight shaking. It’s hard to know how that translates into the real world. But I know I’m not getting my jacket wet that much.
Excellent video sir...if that stuff works as well as you have demonstrated then that could really be a game changer. I love my down jacket but for a period during the wetter times of the year it's synthetic down only for me, this technology could re-write that need. Subbed and belled, thank you.
Definitely a huge down fan and the technology has come a long way. I still try to keep it dry though because it would be my behavior with any nice gear. My only big qualm is wearing it as an insulator for high output activities (vs a synthetic) where I’m sweating and the moisture has oils, salt, and other body grossness instead of just water. Can Downtek perform from the inside out? Meaning, if I’m sweating from the inside does it still maintain loft?
You aren't wearing the down clothing directly on your skin are you? You should have technical layers underneath which absorb all the nasty crap and all that evaporates off is water.
@@Shrouded_reaper I have base layers on. But wondering if the layers actually “soak” it all up or if there still some transfer. Just less if it when you have a layer.
Great experiment! Man, your video quality, production, skills are impressive. Thanks for sharing. Good to know! The seams really are the weak link. All in all, that Down Tech technology is critical.
A more likely scenario than dropping your pack in a stream is wearing a down jacket while hiking and then finding that the jacket is soaked with sweat from your back (which has happened to me). That is a problem if you're deep in the back country. Any thoughts? Really got a lot from your presentation. Thank you.
Awesome video, man! I'm sure you're wife didn't enjoy dumping that water on you at all... 🤣 I've been thinking about this quite a bit since my bag and quilt have untreated down, but I've heard that the treatment isn't always super effective. Based on your test, it looks like it is! I find myself wondering how extended rain would impact it vs dunking in a stream. For example, would raining for hours penetrate the down more than dunking for a few minutes? Hard to say. But once you learn to control the weather, maybe you can stand in the rain for 5 hours and do another test? 🤣
Great questions. So I wouldn’t recommend standing in the rain in just your down jacket. And I’m sure you wouldn’t either. BUT the shake test I did with DownTek in the jar. DownTek claims the down can repel water while being shaken in a jar of water for 25 hours. So go ahead and stand in the rain if you want. But get in your tent before morning 🤣
@@MyLifeOutdoors 🤣 Fair enough. The shake test was insane! It just popped right back up at the top! Crazy they say 25 hours. That seams easier to test than standing in the rain... 🤣 Seriously this video was awesome!
I bet she enjoyed throwing the water on you much more than you did 😆 great video was very helpful to me trying to figure out what gear is worth buying thanks
It'd be cool to see what it would take for the jacket to fail. Kinda like how Mythbusters used to force a test till breaking point. Otherwise, top notch video all the way, sir.
That would be cool. Based on DownTeks claims I think it would take a bunch of soaking and agitation. They claim the it can withstand the shake test in the jar for 25 hours straight.
Even regular down, unless it has been extensively cleaned of all the natural oil does a surprisingly good job at repelling water. I feel these water repellent downs is mostly just marketing, or replicating what down already does.
Big Agnes Shovelhead Jacket: geni.us/AKkJbAy
You just became the Bill Nye of outdoor gear testers!
But seriously, this was great. I actually trust my downtek pieces a little more now. Another fun test is to try washing a downtek quilt or sleeping bag in the tub. It takes a lot of work to get it to actually soak!
Oh, and perfect execution on the disclaimers at the end (per our previous YT comment convo). 👌
Bill Bill Bill Bill Bill! Thanks! I loved bill nye as a kid!
I have not yet tried to wash one yet, but I bet it’s difficult. And I’m glad you approve of the disclaimer. I learned a lot form previous videos and comments like yours.
Thanks for taking the cold to increase awareness. While the DWR may in fact still insulate when the garment gets soaked, it's still best to not get soaked in the first place. The treated down jacket certainly didn't look comfortable when wet, but maybe could make a survival difference. You are right about the warmth from the Colorado sun. As soon as it goes down or the wind comes up you feel it right now.
I for sure won’t be taking any swims in my jacket. But if for some horrible reason my down does get wet…I feel much better about it.
This technology is a huge improvement. Taking down when wet from useless to not being. Not the complete disaster if it was to get a soaking, submerged. This is huge.
Down when looked after will outlast synthetics. I'm not yet sure this treatment is permanent but may last 3/4s of a garment's life?? Much will be how often a garment has to be washed. And anyway the last quarter of a garments life it is looking pretty rough and no longer smart, but we all keep them for nostalgia and gardening.
There is still a place for synthetics, immersion suits and high abrasive work. But down garments and sleeping systems are just such a joy.. This technology is a real boost to enjoying down.
Videos such as this get the word out.
Love the format and quality of your vids; nice work. Thank you.
I don’t own any down because of this reason. I use synthetics which means I use heavier and bulkier items than I could use (I also save some money). This is a huge game changer!!! If I can carry down without the issue of it getting wet…that’s worth the money! Thanks for braving the cold so we can get a good, honest review!
Get some down and get funky! Thanks for the comment
You may want to check out Outdoor Vitals NovaUL and NovaPro jackets. They are filled with 90% DWR-treated down, and 10% synthetic clusters to maintain even more loft when it gets wet. And the baffles are woven into the fabric instead of stitched. I wore mine as an outer layer for a full day of resort skiing while it was snowing the whole time, and it stayed perfectly dry.
Obviously all the clothing companies wanted to convince the public that synthetic insulation was as good as down with all their bs. Down is super expensive vs the polyester a systematic insulation that is literally made from garbage dump free plastic bottles. Companies been selling a primaloft jacket for $100 less than an identical down jacket yet it should cost 1/10 the price.
Also synthetics like primaloft last less than a year if using daily. Unlike down which last forever if washed properly occasionally
Really well put together. And thanks for putting yourself through that ...very helpful. I have a lot of down gear and I protect it more than my children (and it's all hydro treated)
Thanks! And I’m the same way. Haha
Intelligent, eloquent presentation. You're a good presenter.
This video was really well made. Pacing and editing on point!
Re the test, it's interesting to see. However down doesn't get wet because of being dumped in water usually. If you keep in the the backpack with a pack liner you could literally dump it in a stream and it would be dry. What makes down wet and impairs its function is humidity in the air or sweating into it when wearing it. When I was a Noob I once wore my down jacket to hike and it was falling apart after some time. Time is the issue here, humidity has all the time in the world to impair the down so in this regard your test isn't very telling. Then there's degradation of the treatment over time. Western Mountaineering which is a very knowledgeable producer notably doesn't use hydrophobic treatment (they explain why on their homepage).
Thanks for the video!
I'm really enjoying the great content, and the killer production. Well done.
Thank you! I’m enjoying making it.
@@MyLifeOutdoors ahh never mind. Its because I am in sweden I cant see it. Sorry. 😁
I second this!
I have recently bought a sleeping bag with dwr treated down. In my opinion this is the biggest invention in sleeping bags in recent times because it's really has all the advantages of down and fibers combined (aside from not being cheap). For clothing i still prefer fleece and wool over down for insulation though.
So far for clothing i mostly like wool.and fleece as well. I going to try a down jacket underneath a gortex hunting jacket but not sure if it would still loft under the weight. Ever tried it? Might try just a down vest (probably the only.way to make a down vest useful lol)
I think nobody will argue that DWR coating will help massively to counter the down-sides (pun intended). It would be interesting to have a temperature reading from under the jacket. With 2 more control jackets (one with untreated down and one with synthetic fibre) the relative temperature loss could be compared. That way we'd know how much the DWR treating improves the performance.
All that being said: I find it to be an improbable scenario in the first place to be caught out in a down pour (pun not intended) in your mid layer only and not grabbing your rain gear. That's why you bring rain gear. As long as the water repelling treatment of the outer fabric can keep out the rain for 5mins, you should be good. So the ultimate question is then: can you and are you willing to afford a high class down jacket?
Personally, I think that the question of down vs synthetic is more interesting in the sleeping system area where weather resisting features aren't that much of an issue any more (since you can just pack tham in a dry bag and you'd be using them in your shelter). The overall weight saving will always impact your pack weight. With your mid layer, you'll be wearing it most of the time so it's not in your bag anymore and wearing additional 100 or 200g spread over the whole of the jacket won't be noticeable. And since you'd be wearing it most of the time, packability won't be a huge factor either. So in my very very personal opinion: going down (pun not indended) for your mid layer instead of synthetics is more of a luxury question with less benefits than in your sleep system.
Wool is another way to get there. And, a combination of wool and down is a very good option.
Courtesy of Half Vast Flying
Thank you for making a non-biased review. I appreciate it
Thanks for watching
Your channel is going to blow up, production value is really good
Thanks for helping it along the way!
I appreciate your sacrifice for the greater good. I REALLY need you to test out the effectiveness of another product: bear spray on humans. And get it on film. It's for science, right?!?
Will you be my test dummy? 😉
A good control would've been a wet non dwr treated jacket.
For the sake of science! Bravo, great video.
I've experienced extreme weather with a flooded tent in alpine conditions and my DWR DownTek treated down quilt and jacket stayed mostly dry and kept me warm, it's definitely worth paying a little extra for the extra protection for those unforeseen times when your gear gets wet, especially on longer hikes or in remote areas.
That’s good collaborating evidence. Thank you!
I live in western Oregon. The fog will get you very wet even being under a tarp. I don't have any down except for some inherited sleeping bags. I might be interested in it now
Well now Steve I feel like all my current down jackets are like crap & now have seen why it takes so long for them to dry. Thanks for the lesson 😁👍💯💪
I’m working on a video that should be able to take your old down gear and make it perform like the down in this video. It will be out next month sometime
Excellent topic. And I have never seen anybody do one such video. Thank you.
Thank you for watching!
Very interesting. I had never heard of speicaly treated down having this property. Thanks for making this video. ~RVA~
Brilliant! Science!
Thanks! This was a fun one.
That is one hell of a dedicated test! Lol
Awesome video bro!! Loved the follow up too with the old down jacket! Super cool!
I’m in the PNW so it’s very wet, I still prefer down for the weight and compressibility, but I also bring a light wool shawl which is very multifunctional and could do for a blanket especially combined with a fire
Wool is the other miracle insulation/material.
That video I like how you truly testing and researching this product very thoroughly. 👍
Thanks
Never seen snow probably won’t but I learnt something!
You need to see snow. It’s amazing. And wet down can kill in the summer in high altitude with no snow on the ground. Thanks for watching
Thanks for diving into Downtech/DWR. I have a bag treated with it, and it seems like it works, but never tested it out like you. Great video!
Thanks for watching! It was a fun video to make
Ive always preferred to layer up than rely on 1 complicated piece of gear that has multiple fail points.
So i do have down but never use it as a primary and hope it stays dry in the meantime.
Glad the pfas issue is coming to light.
A few years back i realized my kit is close to 80% plastic or synthetic.
I try to keep everything I bring as dry as possible. I don’t think wet ANYTHING is comfortable, because water can absorb quite a bit of heat, and it conducts heat really well. I usually bring a separate base layer to sleep in at night so that I don’t have to sleep in sweaty clothes for this reason.
Thank you for being so thorough in your experiments! i never heard of downtek. i wear synthetic down...i worry about animal cruelty but i am guessing (unless someone lets me know) that down feathers are collected from ducks when they are killed unlike fur plucked from rabbits when they are alive (in some cases i have seen). Downtek does seem like a great option since normal down can get wet and flat not even from rain water but from sweat
DownTek is Responsible Down Standard Certified which is supposed to ensure humane treatment of animals (down sourced from ducks killed for food etc.) I share your concerns for ethical treatment! I think the best thing we can do is continue to put pressure on these companies to ethically source their down and protect the environment. Thanks for watching!
@@MyLifeOutdoors The only real pressure you can exert is by simply not buying down products, and buying synthetic alternatives instead.
80% of down is sourced in China. It has been repeatedly shown that Chinese manufacturers don't care about animal cruelty in the slightest. Horrid practices like live plucking are still openly practiced, including by manufacturers associated with the "responsible down" standard. There is simply no way this is going to change, given the fact that it is so much more profitable if you can pluck a goose up to 16! times instead of just once.
Really interesting and useful review. This is what buying decisions can be thoughtfully based on when we're talking expensive gear. I very much appreciate the effort. (Much more useful than the Melanzana hoodie review from which my takeaway was basically "buy this because it's a good product, made in America, and they're really nice people and deserve your business". All of that may be true, but that's NOT what I base expensive buying decisions on.). By the way you ALMOST have me talked into "take a seat" but... whoa... that's one expensive seat.
What can I say. I’m a sucker for Melanzana. But I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
You didn't have to say a word....Damn that was a solid test. It was amazing that it somehow stayed so lofty. I've been a little concerned of late that my prized Ghost Whisperer was the weakest link in my kit. I've been looking to replace it with the EE Torrid. Now I just have to see what I got. It was treated but I'm not sure it was loftek. I'm sure that stuff would wear off but you only get soaked out like that once or twice. Great video. I'm gonna go dunk mine
Thanks! It will eventually wear off. But it should take several soakings before it does. And I just don’t get my down wet that often. So I’m pretty pleased with this result.
Yeah I feel like I have to be careful w my down, I mostly wear it as a middle layer
I got a mountain Hardwear ghost whisperer it's treated down that can repel light rain but humid body heat Carrie's moisture and I found even treated down can't do much against it.
My Rab Continuum down jacket with hydrophobic down does exactly the same. Still warm after an unplanned downpour.
I’ve been learning more about the down Rab uses. It’s made by Nikwax and In tests it outperforms DownTek by 10x. Which is very impressive
this was a really good idea for a test. thanks
This was a fantastic review of dwr treated down , i definetly think very much like yourself , i get paranoid to point if i should even wear my down jackets as they can be quite pricey and dont want to ruin them , i do try to buy dwr treated down from now on , just as abit of reassurance incase rain does appear as the weather in scotland changes very quickly
Thank you. And I’m glad this gives you some reassurance. It certainly did me. I’m impressed!!
I’m glad you did this experiment lol. I think the only thing I’d be curious about is flattening the jacket with a pack like if you were hiking in it. I think your test was well thought out though. I was stuck overnight in an odd location due to an emergency with an u treated d
Old down bag and old untreated jacket. It was in the mid 30’s overnight. It added insult to injury, literally! It was brutal! I’ve been somewhat scared of depending on down since then, so thanks! 😀
I’m assuming the untreated down got wet? But it wasn’t enough to freeze? That’s something I didn’t think of. If wet down froze wile compressed. After this video I feel confident the down would loft back up as long as it wasn’t frozen. Even after being flattened in a pack. But obviously I can’t say for sure. Thanks for watching
@@MyLifeOutdoors thankfully my down was soaked but didn’t freeze. I was the frozen thing 😂
Stay warm!
Helpful review and professionally assembled video. Nicely done!
Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it
I enjoy watching your videos a lot, thank you!
Thank you. I’m glad you are here!
Great test on this jacket. Thanx buddy..
Thanks for watching!
Nikwax for down works wonders for not already treated down garments.
I’m actually working on a video about that. It will be out next month sometime
@@MyLifeOutdoors Subbed I'll be looking for it thanks.
Videos are top notch. Thanks for all the great info and sharing your hard work.
Thanks for watching!
I just use synthetic if there’s a chance of getting wet. I own 3 synthetic jackets and 1 down jacket. I live in Ireland so that’s probably the correct ratio because it rains. A lot.
Patagonia’s new Alplight is nice, but for the price & hype I’d like to see treated down if it’s to complete with synthetics. They used the encapsil down years ago but for only in 2-3 jackets
Great demonstration and certainly pokes hole to a long-standing theory of wet down equals inadequate insulation.
Kuiu also has DWR treated down. So far great stuff
Absolutely fantastic! A jib well done. Keep up the awesome content. Happy Hiking 🥾- Julia from the UK 🇬🇧
Great info thanks
Here we go just the kinda stuff I need to know!THANKS
Thanks for watching!
I wonder if it would help when sweating. I get quite sweaty and my bown if under my waterproof gets wet and flat. Would this help 🤔
I think it would certainly help. Sweat introduces salt and oils which might cause the DWR to degrade faster but based on DownTek’s claims I think it would take quite a bit of sweat. Thanks for watching
So down *maintains* loft when wet, but could down also *regain* loft when wet? For example if the jacked got soaked, but in stead of wearing it immediately after, you stuff it in your stuff sack, continue hiking, get it out 5 hours later when setting up camp. Or it gets soaked while being stuffed down (without you knowing). Would the down fibers be sticking to each other then? Or would they still loft when wet?
Great video!
Thanks
Wondering if this would apply to synthetic down such as Northface thermoball ?
I've used Nikwax in the past with similar results in terms of down loft. I didn't go to the extent of soaking stuff in a freeing stream, so nice job there! :)
Thanks. I stated to wonder what a Nikwax DWR treatment would do to a standard down jacket. Thanks for the comment
tx.direct wash-in ?
Outdoor Vitals has similar technology - Loftech. They’ve done similar tests.
If I’m not mistaken LoftTek is fully synthetic, and synthetics have always been able to get wet and still insulate. But there is no synthetic I know of that is as light weight as down. Even the most advanced synthetics can only match about 650 fill power down for the same weight. I think that’s what makes DownTek great. It maintains all the amazing properties of down while picking up some features of synthetics.
Nice video. I loved the out take!
Thanks!
What was that water proof down coating you said is destroying the habitat? I want to learn more about that
It has many designations I said PFAS but PFC’s may be the more common name. They are “forever chemicals” and they are bad bad for the environment
Just like all DWR coatings, they wear off in 5 years or less! I want an expensive jacket to last for more than just a few years and a few washes when the DWR wears off. A brand new rain jacket or other DWR coated gear beads water amazingly but my rain jackets don’t do it anymore
You can reapply DWR at home really easily. I’ve had great results and have a video about it. It won’t last as long as the factory application but it’s WAY cheaper than a new jacket.
A shell should always be carried to protect yourself and your down jacket
Thought Primaloft is supposed to be better than down when wet?
Great review!
My bag and puffer are untreated, other than that I just use wool
Really good content and production! I really like that most of your videos are< 10 min!
Great review! I wish I had more money to spend!😊
Don’t we all! Thanks for watching!
Great test. I’m going have to check out your channel now. My question is what about the exterior material on this jacket? Does it have enough water repellent properties to shield the down? Would a coat with an inferior material allow the water to penetrate and soak the down more and give a different outcome? I’m going look into this product for my winter camping thanks
Makes me wonder what would happen if I washed my down in the dwr treatment.
I started wondering the same thing. I’ve got a bunch of untreated loose down. I may look at trying to treat it at home for some kind of “make your own gear” type of deal.
Great job on the video. I like the 'test it out' style. New Sub here!
Looking forward to similar downtec sleeping bag experiment.
I really like that jacket. What is the temp rating or how cold have you used down to and been comfortable?
I have a Kelty Cosmic Ultra DriDown sleepingbag. I guess the performance should be similar. Awesome review.
I would think so. But it’s hard to be certain. Thanks for watching
I would be curious about how long wet down would need to dry in below freezing temperatures. You can dry wet clothes in freezing conditions very well. Should equally work with down feathers.
That would be interesting and to see if it freezes itself and what happens to it. Thanks for watching
Is the coat itself water resistant? As far as "real world" scenarios, the waterproofing on the coat can reduce the water that gets in during the dunk.
Yes the jacket outer has a DWR treatment as well. But not enough to keep water out in this kind of test as seen when I could ring water out of the skirt of the jacket. Even so…every bit helps in the real world
My question is will this wick away sweat?
I just dont understand on a physical level how down can be a natural "so easy" material and yet not being copied using synthetic materials? why cant we imitate down better? like 3d scan and just make it out of polyester :/? Why does synthetic insulation have to look so "different" to down??
I wonder if the DWR finish on the exterior of the jacket played a major role in keeping the down from getting wet and maintaining loft…
I wondered the same thing. One I don’t think this jacket has an exterior DWR treatment. And two, the fact that I was able to feel and squeeze water out of the baffles tells me it was able to get to the down. So I’m still fairly confident the treated down was doing it’s job.
Nice review! I agree, more for a winter system. It's pricey and a little on the heavier side. But seems to do well against the snow as well so good to know. Now we need this tech in an OV (nearly stitchless) jacket and a weight of around 8ozs or less and we're cooking for 3 season backpacking!
I would like to get my hands on some of those stichless jackets!
Primaloft is the answer. Great material
Love the video and of course your excellent beard. This treatment seems to really work, but so does the pearling treatment on jackets when they are new. How long can one expect this treatment to carry on working?
It’s a good question. DownTek claims the shake test (in the jar of water) will last for 1500 mins of straight shaking. It’s hard to know how that translates into the real world. But I know I’m not getting my jacket wet that much.
Excellent video sir...if that stuff works as well as you have demonstrated then that could really be a game changer. I love my down jacket but for a period during the wetter times of the year it's synthetic down only for me, this technology could re-write that need. Subbed and belled, thank you.
I like the shovel head jacket. Seems like it does not come in a tall version though.
How tall are you if you don’t mind ?
Great video thanks
Not very tall. I’m 5’7”
Definitely a huge down fan and the technology has come a long way. I still try to keep it dry though because it would be my behavior with any nice gear. My only big qualm is wearing it as an insulator for high output activities (vs a synthetic) where I’m sweating and the moisture has oils, salt, and other body grossness instead of just water. Can Downtek perform from the inside out? Meaning, if I’m sweating from the inside does it still maintain loft?
That’s a good question. Do the oils of your sweat effect the DWR? I know detergents can break down DWR quickly.
@@MyLifeOutdoors I know it can cause delamination so hypothesizing it would have some impact on DWR. Would be a good myth buster .
You aren't wearing the down clothing directly on your skin are you? You should have technical layers underneath which absorb all the nasty crap and all that evaporates off is water.
@@Shrouded_reaper I have base layers on. But wondering if the layers actually “soak” it all up or if there still some transfer. Just less if it when you have a layer.
damn you have really calm voice dude. wow
Let's get Down to the facts!
Why are you using a Bbq thermometer?
That’s what I had.
Great experiment! Man, your video quality, production, skills are impressive. Thanks for sharing.
Good to know! The seams really are the weak link. All in all, that Down Tech technology is critical.
A more likely scenario than dropping your pack in a stream is wearing a down jacket while hiking and then finding that the jacket is soaked with sweat from your back (which has happened to me). That is a problem if you're deep in the back country. Any thoughts? Really got a lot from your presentation. Thank you.
dont hike in a down jacket
@@lardtazium4789 So true.
Do Big Agnes recommend any product for redoing their DownTec products?.
That’s a good question. I’ll try to find out
Awesome video! I would love to see more gear test videos in the future.I
Thanks! I’ll see what I can do
Has anyone tried a down jacket or down vest under a goretex shell?
Awesome video, man! I'm sure you're wife didn't enjoy dumping that water on you at all... 🤣
I've been thinking about this quite a bit since my bag and quilt have untreated down, but I've heard that the treatment isn't always super effective. Based on your test, it looks like it is!
I find myself wondering how extended rain would impact it vs dunking in a stream. For example, would raining for hours penetrate the down more than dunking for a few minutes? Hard to say. But once you learn to control the weather, maybe you can stand in the rain for 5 hours and do another test? 🤣
Great questions. So I wouldn’t recommend standing in the rain in just your down jacket. And I’m sure you wouldn’t either. BUT the shake test I did with DownTek in the jar. DownTek claims the down can repel water while being shaken in a jar of water for 25 hours. So go ahead and stand in the rain if you want. But get in your tent before morning 🤣
@@MyLifeOutdoors 🤣 Fair enough. The shake test was insane! It just popped right back up at the top! Crazy they say 25 hours. That seams easier to test than standing in the rain... 🤣
Seriously this video was awesome!
Oh and my wife said it was great to get out some pint up holiday aggression!
I think he should just purposely take a trip in the rain. I mean, if he doesn’t go that far for his viewers, does he even really care at all?
@@KyleGraham19 haha. I don't know. Probably not fair to ask more than having your wife chuck cold water on your in the middle of a snowstorm... 🤣
I bet she enjoyed throwing the water on you much more than you did 😆 great video was very helpful to me trying to figure out what gear is worth buying thanks
Add a 30 MPH+ wind chill and try again. Cheers! :)
Good Down Tek is Life Plucked
The link to the jacket does not work.
I apologize. I went to check it and I think it’s working now
It'd be cool to see what it would take for the jacket to fail. Kinda like how Mythbusters used to force a test till breaking point. Otherwise, top notch video all the way, sir.
That would be cool. Based on DownTeks claims I think it would take a bunch of soaking and agitation. They claim the it can withstand the shake test in the jar for 25 hours straight.
@@MyLifeOutdoors That's not an insignificant amount of hours. I'd suggest the washing machine. XD
Even regular down, unless it has been extensively cleaned of all the natural oil does a surprisingly good job at repelling water. I feel these water repellent downs is mostly just marketing, or replicating what down already does.
Isn't that just a regular down jacket with a waterproof layer? If not, then why isn't it? Seems simple to me.