@@clovismerovingian7764you're not coping you're speaking facts bro i been looking into this lately. I used to a be a little donkey like the guy who commented against you. But after doing research I found the truth.
☺️ the flood legend is in over 100 cultures It's a world wide event I would wish to believe that such a world wide event would be recorded in majority of this worlds cultures
@garybowman5783 Ad ho·mi·nem attacks weaken your stands. The world is filled with a flood event if you bother to investigate. It's your soul if you don't believe in a living God
It is recorded in the epic of Gilgamesh that Utnapishtim made an ark that was square. It was shaped like a cube. Noah's ark was rectangular. A cube is the least stable boat model that exists. A cube will capsize at the slightest wave. Noah's ark was six times as long as wide, and ten times as long as high. It turns out that those are the best proportions for a stable freighter. Noah's ark really is the best boat model you can possibly have. Dutch author Ben Hobrink talks about this in his book, 'Moderne Wetenschap in de Bijbel' (Modern Science in the Bible).
Very good point, Leon! The dimensions of Utnapiahtim’s vessel are clearly untenable for being a seaworthy boat and mark a stark difference to the Genesis account.
@@davenewton4862 it did float, but it also capsized and flipped upside-down and right-side-up continually while it was floating. Hence my use of the term untenable.
@@WesHuff from an article about this in the Daily Mail: "Sadly, however, the Ark was not as perfect as it seemed and when launched, water began leaking into the hull. A pump was used to keep it afloat. Despite this, Dr Finkel said that the inferior bitumen was to blame, but the Babylonian design was watertight and produced a stable vessel."
@@davenewton4862 So I just looked up the citations and the dimensions. What Dr. Finkel went off of was the vessel version in the Atrahasis Epic (as I mention in the video was what the flood narrative in Gilgamesh was most probably borrowed from), where the vessel is circular. However, by the time that it gets to the versions of Gilgamesh it states that the boat's "walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height, the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times its cubits each." This would make it a perfect square of 120 cubits per side (with 6 decks and 7 levels with 9 compartments in each as described in the Epic XI).
The fact that Gilgamesh story is older than Noah’s and yes you could say their differences are big, and you can’t deny the other 200+ flood myths across the world and the striking resemblances between Gilgamesh and Noah’s flood story. Yes it doesn’t PROVE it was borrowed, but it can’t be DISCOUNTED either. At the very least it’s interesting and to be honest as a non believer the fact that this story is told across the world reinforces for me the possibility that something like this could have happened, rather than discount the story.
Very well said. I believe it's also important to remember that the Hebrew language didn't exist when the flood is believed to have happened. So while the story was written in Sumerian and Akkadian first, the tradition existed in Jewish culture for thousands of years before Genesis was written. There's no way of really knowing which culture knew the story first. Apologies if any of this is addressed in the video. I'm not a historian/scholar/archaeologist, and far from an expert. I just saw your comment before I started watching and found it interesting.
@UniverseAnomaly All history is probabilities. NOAH is extremely unlikely. All oral traditions develop over time. Why are we debating Noah.? It didn't happen and couldn't happen in the way with results portrayed. Besides. Makes God an incompetent, nasty piece of Work. Sentient creatures deserve better care.
@@steveburris6543 they will find Noah's arch if they haven't already. Just like the rest of the Bible has been historically accurate this will be shown to be true very soon.
My Christian worldview has lead me to believe that when God confused the people with different languages and the tower of Babel, they all went their separate ways but they had the same stories and technology that was incorporated into what would become their different cultures.
I remember 30 years ago in a humanities college course the liberal Methodist professor telling us about the “many” stories of Gilgamesh and he basically told us the Bible borrowed from these stories. This was a stumbling block to me and seeded doubt for so many years.
They are agents of satan and it also happened to me too, although in a different way. I believe he controls all the systems of the world with the main goal to deceive so that we all miss out on God's salvation.
I too studied under a Methodist minister (Dr. Norment) The Study of the Old Testament in 1990. The textbook I still have at home somewhere. I don't recall if Dr. Norment said that the story of the flood in Genisis was copied from the story of Gilgamesh but the textbook said that the story didn't appear in the ancient Hebrew, Israelite, or Jewish literature until after the Babylonians captivity. The textbook and Dr. Norment did say the parting of the Red Sea was a typo. It was originally The Sea of Reeds, a swampy area near the Nile delta. I can't wait to get home and pull that book out. I think it was written by someone named Drane or maybe Drake
Just because it was weitten first does not mean it is older. These were stories passed down verbally for many generations before they took written form.
If I may humbly respond to your question. Please note that the Bible doesn't give us the comprehensive details we may want, it focuses on tracing the main issues like creation, origin of sin, murder and such. Just like in the movies we're not given all the details, most are cut out, otherwise it'll be too long. Similar with the Bible; imagine if God instead of saying, He created the fish, He gave details of each one of them, same with trees, insects before reaching the creation of Man. Adam had other sons and daughters Genesis 5:4 but it focuses on these two. Cain married one of his sisters and established a city. The same way Jacob had 12 sons but we're not given details of each one of them but the main characters. Please don't miss out on the grace of God. Only because you're not given the many details you demand. God has given what is necessary in His wisdom for our salvation. Understand the Bible teaches that we have all sinned by breaking the law. Such as Do not lust, lie, steal, commit adultery etc. We have been sentenced to death but our souls face a second death - a life sentence into the lake of fire. God has provided a fine by giving His Holy Son Jesus to die in our place and redeem our souls. If only we would believe Him to receive Salvation. Then we would be saved, embrace a new lifestyle that is led by Jesus. Whom we acknowledge or confess as LORD and saviour by studying and following His teachings. Thank you
@@1jumbojumbo1 not at all, approach truth with humility, conduct an in-depth research, reason critically, and evaluate evidence honestly. If the truth of Jesus is undeniable, acknowledge and submit to it. Thank you.
@1jumbojumbo1 you can read for yourself and find this information to draw your conclusion, but you have to read from the sources, not just be quick to type comments without doing your research.
There's a huge oversight here. The date of the flood is at least 2,500 BC in other words the story is older than Gilgamesh which is dated from various versions 1600 - 2100 BC. There are approximately 200 or more variations of the story in cultures throughout the Earth. It's like having witnesses at all points of the globe that testify to this event, even in places that a flood story would not even be thought of in the region as it would appear to be impossible, yet is nevertheless engrained into the human experience. In different accounts the sizes of the boat would not fit a large population, or be seaworthy, or the duration in order to achieve the height of water would not be long enough, the receding of the waters would have been catastrophically too fast, or in other cases much fewer people and animal types all of which seem to miss important details that are left out of the account that are not realistic, but the Bible account is. It's the accurate original and not the compacted, or mistated summary of others. The original story was handed down by Noah and eventually to Abraham then 400 years later or so Moses recorded the faithful account in Genesis as the permanent, accurate record of God's story.
Absolutely. The Flood was a worldwide event, so one would expect to have accounts of it from cultures all over the world. One would also expect that these stories, as they drift further and further from the original account, would become less detailed and more prone to inaccuracies, the actual "telephone game" that the unscholarly accuse the Bible of being.
You do realize , Hebew language didn't develop until around 1000 BC. How could have Hebrews known about the flood if their language didn't exist until 1500 years after alleged Biblical Flood.
@AskOurPastor, unfortunately, based on the work done by people like Gad Barnaea, Schlomo Sand and Yonatan Adler, there is little to no evidence for the existence of a 'Moses'. The Torahic narratives don't seem to have existed in any form till at least the 6th or 7th century BCE, and weren't formalised into the Torah till at least the 5th or 4th century BCE. Beyond that, there is no evidence of the 'observance' of the Torah, till after the Maccabean period. There also has been no evidence found for the 'exodus' and 40 years of being stuck in the wilderness, but such a huge group of people as claimed in the Bible.
The fact that W. Huff has done such an intelligent body of work and research and is willing to share that effort at no charge, is something I will be eternally grateful for. If I ever stumble across this young man in person, I plan to thank him profusely! Thank you so much, Mr. Huff!
My only thought in response (in addition not rebuttle, obviously) to this is: It's pretty obvious that if globally (not just the ANE) you have similar stories about a global flood, and a dude and a boat... with animals, etc. etc. etc. Similar events in scope and scale - with maybe key players being different and maybe specific animals being listed, that means that something DID happen. However, it was likely before things were written and so while people spread out (Babel), the narrative shifted and changed over time. For example, my dad doesn't remember how i crashed the car. He wrote a letter adding all these details that just weren't true to the original event from 20 years ago. Key details were correct - but the peripherals in it - incorrect. Anyway, great thoughts! Been appreciating your stuff for a while!
How about a dude saved a few goats from a flood using a raft, and he embellished a bit. Play a few hundred years of telephone game, and voila! Some ancient fiction author realizes how cool a story it would make if it had some more embellishments added. Does this sound like it’s at least a remote feasible possibility? Be honest…
@@Godwin_7 Sure, it is a "remotely feasible possibility". But makes even less sense. It makes more sense that a real flood happened that was spread over time and gets changed as more people tell the story.
There really was a big flood in the area where the Noah/Gilgamesh story originated. I could easily imagine lots of people scrambling for boats in a effort to preserve what they have. I’m sure wherever in the world there was a disaster, stories were told of it. Are you saying nobody ever related stories of local floods to their kin? Or embellished a story until now? Or that there were no fiction writers back then (story-tellers, before writing was invented)? Had the lie not been invented yet? Now what do you think is more likely…
@@Godwin_7 the only reason for this theory is because we have yet to find sufficient evidence that dates back this far. however, the Bible has consistently remained the same from 700 BC - 21st century AD. truthfully, there is no reason to doubt something that has remained so consistent and has time and time again been back by secular evidence. is it possible that the telephone game is a factor? sure. nothing is impossible. but, the Bible would likely be very different from it's original text if that were an issue, and it's not. it suggests the truth that something was guiding humans in the writing process. because human would most likely mess it up, but the fact that we haven't is a testament to God's guidance. the Quran is the definition of the telephone game, and was never guided by God, because it is not from him. due to that, we see discrepancies in the story's as they pertained to Mohammad, and has made a book which is not credible in nature.
You didn't mention that Gilgamesh is Nimrod and Utnapushtim is Noah. So the Babylonian story is a twisted version of the Flood story twisted by the descendents of Nimrod after he disobeys God and then reencountered by the Israelites and the correct versuon of the Torah many centuries later. Thus is also mirrored by Hercules (Nimrod) in Greek mythology, since the Greeks worship the evil, fallen Adam and Eve (Zeus and Athena) and divided up Noah's symbols among other gods (Iris' rainbow, Nereus' fish, Geryon's three-bodied form (Noah's three sons), the golden apples of the Hesperides, etc.).
I look at it as not a mythical story but documentation of an event, like if CNN covers a story then 3 weeks later ABC does. It doesn't mean ABC plagiarized CNN, it just means they covered it too.
Loving the content! We should also consider how ancient tribal priestly classes had their own polemics, counter-texts, borrowing, and diffusions. I believe the biblical text employs all of those devices, especially in light of how each of the ten plagues mock Egyptian gods to show the supremacy and exclusivity of YHWH. So, although there are similarities between ancient Near Eastern origin myths, angel battles, and flood accounts, the biblical text portrays the most accurate and fully correct revelation of the ancient past each of those ancient tribal priestly classes were attempting to portray.
It isn't just the Sumerians, I was on Signal Mountain in Chattanooga and there was a plaque posted with a Cherokee flood myth. So did the Cherokee steal the myth from the Sumerians?
Lets not take for granted that each book of the Bible was not put together as it is now but they where separate text written by different people during different periods. I am no scholar but as far as Genesis goes the concept of monotheism was not so set in stone yet. As when Yawheh spoke he spoke in plural Let us us make man in our own image. Man has now become as one of us knowing good from evil. I understand when you go to church they try to explain this as the heavenly host or the future trinity. However, it is very unlikely that whoever wrote those text had any concept of the new testament in mind.
You’re completely wrong and the idea they didn’t know about the “future Trinity” is wrong. If you actually know the Bible you would clearly see the Trinity in the Old Testament and Genesis. You’re speaking out of complete ignorance.
fyi this is also followed by it being made very clear that God is doing this alone. "So God created man in his own image; he created him in the image of God, he created them male and female".
As a matter of the Christian faith, believers believe that Moses wrote Genesis as dictated by God. So even though Genesis was recorded after the epic of Gilgamesh, the events described happened before, as Moses was not alive during the events described in Genesis.
Your false logic and opinions do not make any sense. Modern archeology discoveries are going on in many countries in the Bible and many new discoveries are made every year by non believers that prove the Bible is a book based on history and prophecy. Evidence is everywhere, GOD BLESS ❤@torreyintahoe
I wouldn't believe anything Academia says they have an agenda and if they say otherwise they are out of a job It took weeks for them to admit that the cities of Sodom and Gamorah had been destroyed by a massive heat event with high concentrations of Sulphur found @@torreyintahoe
Wes, I know that your channel is a cross between educational, academic and apologetics but I have a spiritual angle I’m curious about. From what we can tell there are a couple hundred flood stories from across the world. This would make sense from a complete destruction of everything and a reset from a common landing point, also taking into consideration the Tower of Babel. But were only certain parts of Genesis given to Moses from God, or was most of it? I’m curious because the creation accounts sound like the Words of the Creator, the Ten Commandments obviously are, the laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy are, as well as many others. And we know from scripture that God was very close with Moses. What is the academic possibility that Moses’ account of the flood are simply God clarifying the story during discussions with Moses? I know by injecting the spiritual into the conversation it complicates the academic/scientific part of my question, but is it possible that the story of Noah is more recent than other versions, because God told Moses a clarifying explanation, rather than Moses just stealing from previous stories to make his own? The size, shape and contents of the Arc, seem more realistic than the older forms mentioned in other narratives to me. Of course, this is with the caveat that I am a Christian and I take the Word of God over all else and so I want to ensure to others that my biases are clearly accepted from my vantage.
Yes, you are absolutely right; accuracy of the story makes it more reliable. And the best explanation is God showing Moses all the facts and events from Noah’s flood.
Fantastic video wes! I appreciate your scholarly approach to the subject, and i very much enjoyed how you presented the material. I hope the nay sayers dont get in your head. You've got a new fan!
@ I think it's more likely a global catastrophe. Fossils all over the world. Rock formations appearing 'bent', due to early sediments being soft and hardening once exposed. Flood narratives all over the world. Many ancient temples completely covered in dirt. The Bibles account of it is the only highly detailed version that accounts for the changes of the earth. The ground opened up, and it rained. It would have been absolute chaos with tectonic plates being disrupted, pushing in to eachother and creating mountains, which explains why we find fossilised sea creatures. Unless you want to argue that a local flood reached the tops of the mountains and not the other continents around it.
all I see is people saying , it came before the bible , the bible took the stories yet how far back to manuscripts go? when did Moses write down the book? what about simply hearing orally or witnessing the things of God? it seems these writings even if they did come before a complete bible OR EVEN the manuscripts for that matter or original texts that these writings only support the scriptures by recording the events . The King James bible is one of the best selling books around the world and continues to be , not the epic of gilgamesh , and for good reason .
The reason is because those who invaded and conquered the world at that time rewrote history. What about the council of Nicae 325 ad. The problem with the validity of the Bible is man wrote it. Point blank period. If I said God inspired me to add to the Bible a new book, I'd be thought of as insane. Sometimes logic and reason trumps everything.
@@whynot1548 Who said it was lol. Just some points of interest that will kill all of this. If you want an argument. Let's get into the dates. And not the ones propagated by egyptolgy. How old is the Bible? Who wrote it, and how is it validated?
Hey Wes! Love your stuff. To be quite frank, I got deeep in the gnostic rabbit hole. By different historical findings and rituals I read about as well as you explaining the differences in language written proved it wouldn't have been written by thomas himself. You're doing phenomenal work! Keep it up buddy!
Comparison: The flood stories of Noah (from the Bible) and Utnapishtim (from the Epic of Gilgamesh) share several similarities, reflecting their shared origins in ancient Near Eastern traditions. Here’s a breakdown of the key parallels: Similarities 1. Divine Warning Noah: God warns Noah about the impending flood to cleanse the Earth of wickedness (Genesis 6:13-17). Utnapishtim: The god Ea/Enki secretly warns Utnapishtim about the gods' decision to destroy humanity with a flood. 2. Construction of a Vessel Noah: God instructs Noah to build an ark of specific dimensions using gopher wood. Utnapishtim: Ea tells Utnapishtim to construct a massive boat with precise dimensions, resembling a cube in shape. 3. Preservation of Life Noah: Noah brings his family and pairs of animals (male and female) to repopulate the Earth. Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim saves his family, artisans, and animals of every kind. 4. The Flood Noah: The flood lasts 40 days and nights, covering all the mountains (Genesis 7:12, 7:19). Utnapishtim: The flood lasts 6 days and 7 nights, submerging the land. 5. Resting of the Boat Noah: The ark comes to rest on Mount Ararat as the waters recede (Genesis 8:4). Utnapishtim: His boat rests on Mount Nisir. 6. Sending of Birds Noah: Noah sends out a raven and then a dove to find dry land. The dove returns with an olive branch (Genesis 8:6-12). Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim releases a dove, a swallow, and a raven. The raven does not return, indicating dry land. 7. Post-Flood Offerings Noah: After the flood, Noah offers a sacrifice to God, who makes a covenant never to destroy the Earth by flood again (Genesis 8:20-21). Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim makes a sacrifice to the gods, who regret the flood and vow not to destroy humanity again. --- Differences 1. Reason for the Flood Noah: The flood is a punishment for human sin and corruption. Utnapishtim: The flood is decreed because humans had become too noisy and disturbed the gods' peace. 2. Role of Deity/Deities Noah: The monotheistic God directly commands and interacts with Noah. Utnapishtim: Multiple gods are involved; Ea/Enki secretly helps Utnapishtim against the will of other gods. 3. Outcome for the Hero Noah: Noah lives an ordinary life after the flood and becomes the father of post-flood humanity. Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim and his wife are granted immortality by the gods and live forever at the edge of the world. --- These similarities suggest that the Noah story and the Epic of Gilgamesh stem from a shared cultural tradition, possibly originating in Mesopotamia, where flood myths were common due to the region's geography and history of devastating floods.
Great post But they were referring to younger dryas impact “theory” flood Because wasn’t just some regular flood and we can see scars and remnants of the damage this ancient flood had on earth
World archeological studies prove a world wide flood. The fountains of the deep burst forth in the Bible which is where the majority of water came from not the rain. There are still some huge reservoirs of water under the earths surface. So many stories stem from the one true God. Even Greek mythology draws for the nephilim in part. All religion pulls or walks in step with so many other stories that have continued through history. The biggest difference though is that only one came down from heaven and died a sinners death and became sin who knew no sin that we might become his righteousness. Only one ever claimed to be the way the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father but by him. Only one was resurrected and seen by over 500 witnesses. That is the messiah Yeshua of Nazareth. Nobody dies for a lie they know isn’t truth. Yet these disciples died horrible deaths by not renouncing Jesus. They did this because they saw him face to face after his death and resurrection. They knew this is no mere man. This is the King who claims to be God in human form. God bless. Soli Deo Gloria. Merry Christmas. 😊🎄✝️🙏
Look, if you went thru the great flood on an ark, you wouldn't have to write it down for many centuries. It would be the story of the centuries! Remember, EVERYONE already knew the story. Gilgamesh was a version of this story. 300 other verions exist from Almost EVERY other country.
I have to challenge you on this If you're main defense is that there are more differences than there are similarities to stories from older traditions and religion that is a weak argument. I'll keep this short and simple, think about this If I wanted to steal somebody else's story or if there was an old fictional book that I love and wanted to replicate it and make it my own, I would keep a few important similarities, but then add my own creativity thoughts, motives, and interest, or personal agendas. i would not copy it verbatim, one hundred percent and then be found to be a fraud later on You understand what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, we cannot prove or disprove if the stories from the bible were copied from older traditions and religions, but to try to disprove it because of differences, falls flat
Yes but if you read Gilgamesh and compare it to Noah, Gilgamesh is the one with all the added details and variations. Noah is the bare bones version. Why copy a story and strip it of everything? If someone copies a story, they add to it. Gilgamesh added to Noah.
@@mombythesea2426 if you’re a monotheistic religion then you’re going to want to strip away elements like multiple gods as multiple gods means that the one true bible god could possibly be challenged and overthrown. Also maybe the writers of Gilgamesh were just better writers than whoever wrote Genesis, imitations generally pale in comparison to the original work
@ Why create a monotheistic religion? It was viewed as weaker and poorer than a pantheon. It makes no sense to create a new religion and then make it so anti cultural and unpopular. If it’s truly just fiction, they would have followed all the other religions and created something fantastical.
To me as a christian non-historian layman it seems obvious that there can be found echoes of the flood story etc all around the world in otherwise very different epics if the flood and stuff really happened but after the tower people begun to modify and shape the old stories to different imaginative directions.
Yes correlation is not causation But we see multiple similarities At a certain point we have to be open minded that all the similarities is not just a mere coincidence But I’m speaking about how all cultures we influenced by an ancient advanced culture So less of the idea that stuff was stolen vs just having similar literature due to ancient advanced culture influencing all cultures
And your point? Anyone who has studied ancient history knows that the flood story predates the Bible and the event was described world wide. How about doing a comparison with Jesus and the 40 to 50 worldwide deities pre-dating Christ that shared the Virgin birth, 12 apostles, was crucified and rose from the dead? Better yet, how about debating a biblical scholar who doesn’t go out of their way to make Bible stories fit a Christian narrative, like Francesca Stavrakopoulou. By the way, does your literal belief in the Bible conclude that the Earth is 6000 years old and man lived with the dinosaurs? Just asking.
All religious texts are stories based off other stories. They cannot be proven nor disproven for the most part. Large sections of history are educated guesses from scholars who may or may not be correct. The best you can shoot for is the simplest idea is hopefully correct, but there is no guarantee. Two people can read the same text and come up with completely different interpretations.
Read Atra Hasis as well as epic of Gilgamesh, their flood stories have many shared narratives and it’s obvious that the Noah story is the same story. Read Irvin Finkle books or watch his videos on the similarities. Irvin Finkle is far more qualified than Wes
@sonofsparda629 why would those people lie? What would they have to gain by making up stories of a global flood or copying what someone else already wrote? Logic dictates that the flood happened. Every culture has its own noah-like story. Logic also dictates that the dinos and man lived side by side. How? We have proof!!! But science doesn't want to believe. How come you won't question them as to why they lie???
@sonifsparda629 So it's fine to question the Bible it even says indirectly to question it in James 1:5 and in Isaiah 1:18 Matthew 7:7-8 Acts 17:11 and more those say it's ok to do it and it encourages to do so to get a better understanding of it i think what they meant was when people claim the Bible is false without looking at any evidence or ideas suggesting it is
Also interesting to note that the story of Noah seems to have some inconsistency or signs that it was multiple stories put together. Such as 6:19 and 7:2 and then 7:12 and 7:24
as a German Biologist and Pythagorean - we face this mystery of the Younger Dryas era and the hypothesis of a Comet Impact - that dramatically changed Climate - the sea level rising more than 100 Meters from sudden Ice Melting. we may have remnants of oral traditions witnessing such an event - all over the earth - not only on one location. The story of “Atlantis” may originate from there. Göbekli Tepe may be related to that. The oral tradition may be part of cultural Identity - to trace the history of a tribe - a nation - back to the origins - and claim originality, uniqueness - a sort of racial arrogance and justification of Superiority over others. Who can be killed, enslaved, conquered, eliminated... For me as a Biologist it is part of Anthropology - how Taboos emerge - the fear of the Unknown, fear of GODS - who can destroy - El Shaddai as a God of Revenge... we have lost the connection to those ancient oral traditions - we do wild Phantasies to create our own entertainment. Ancient Humans lived in a harsh environment - with horrible destructions. We have no imagination how hard that life must have been. may be living in Mosul and Aleppo can give an idea... when Mariupol was destroyed from the Air - and sank into the Black Sea ...creation of a new Myth...
@Wes Huff I am a German Biologist, Biochemist Ph D - I listen to nobody. Science = STUDY. Mathematoi - - Pythagoras...study!The Younger Dryas is an enigma to study! We are fast accelerating to Human Extinction...
@@raginald7mars408 I'm sure you've listened to somebody. At minimum you're reading individuals like Graham Hancock, who are the modern scholastic advocates for what you've described. Your initial comment could have summarized 2 episodes of recent Joe Rogan podcasts. That was the only reason I (jokingly by the way) made the moment. I'm not sure what being *German* in particular adds to you being a biologist. Unless you're specifically studying the biology of Germans? I didn't mention the Younger Dryas Thesis in my video at all so I was commenting more in jest then anything else.
@Wes Huff we are conditioned by the culture we grow up. I have All the horrible European traits you despise. A Warning. You may not appreciate Independent Study - not listening to anybody. it is a scientific puzzle to study the last rapid intense global warming - and it may have fuelled our modern Religions. Charles Darwin was forced to study Theology. As he never listened to anybody - he became a better Biologist - the Art of Study... not listening - Akkus matoi - Listeners - not Scientists - Pythagoras - study...
@@raginald7mars408 With all due respect, I really am not following how much of what you're saying has anything to do with my original video. Nonetheless, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to my own lack of understanding and incompetence.
Well, you haven't convinced me there isn't a common link. The great flood is a common legend worldwide. I don't think the similarities in the regional stories can be dismissed.
If you don't understand this story comes from the same stream you're lying right to yourself These aren't small similarities. It's obviously all from the same story whatever it is however it started.
So many cultures having a similar story tells me this happened, but the stories have been changed here and there like the telephone game. The key is, which one is the truth, and were the others changed for nefarious reasons? Such as to cause distrust?
I am from India, here hindus have flood story too,with one man Manu and his family saved by Vishnu diety who came as fish, is this also copied from Mesopotamia 😂😂😂
Moses knew about the Epic of Gilgamesh. He had access to the greatest knowledge of his day. Mosas was raised an Egyptian Prince. He was taught at the best schools. He had the best tutors. They most likely had the biggest library in the world. Of course he knew all the old stories
These parallels shouldn’t be sluffed off as surface level as though not important to recognize. Many cultures have many similar parallels whose cultures were spread out over 1000’s of miles. They all just happened to make believe similar elements? Doubtful. But possible. Maybe these cultures are having some sort of shared experiences. Some link that bridges the gap. Worth looking into.
As a thinking Man. My question is, How was it possible to assemble all the animals in the world by a hand full of people. Then feed them, scoop poop, treat for illness etc....not to mention mix fresh water species with salt water species. You must realize how stupid this whole story sounds right?
The Bible says verbatim what kind of animals were on the ark. To summarize, basically all Land animals that had limbs and lungs. You can read it yourself.
The Bible is modern rendition I study Sitchin work And sounds like they had dna of the animals I come from a different school of thought and looking through different lens of course
@@starseedmentality2.018the animals that would be on the ark would be babies, for size, procreation, and appetite. Also it says of every kind of animal. So there would be every different dog on the planet it would be only 2 and then from there diversity would come.
It’s the fact that there are similar cataclysmic stories. A great flood. That is a massive similarity that should make us curious and want to continue questioning instead of blind following
There are Sumerian tablets that literally tell the story of the garden of Eden, the garden is literally called Eden. I understand defending your religion but at some point things become obvious.
Too many superficial similarities for a normal human not to think that at least some inspiration was taken from them LOL....FOLLOW THE DOGMA FOLLOW THE DOGMA, that's how they feel with their "over explaining" 😅
How does Gilgamesh and Enkidu correlate with the Adam and Eve story, Gilgamesh and Enkidu are after the flood, Adam and Eve are before the flood, you are being deceitful again, playing off the ignorance of your subscribers. IT Is NOT some people, it is the majority of scholars say the stories are connected, it is only a small group known as "Biblical Scholars" that are saying they aren't the same.and they are very very bias, Sorry I don't trust you Wes Huff.
I didnt watch this video all the way but I believe many of the records in the bible are based on those of the Egyptians. The Egyptians probably had records going way, way back.
There are some surviving texts on papyrus or other paper like materials, but most ancient Egyptian records around today are those carved in stone. I suspect much of the practices condemed in the Bible (idolotry etc.) were influenced by ancient Egypt, but the scriptures themselves are written after the Exodus, when they left Egypt behind.
Doesn't "stealing" or "plagiarizing" imply mythology on both sides (i.e. biblical and Gilgamesh)? Isn't this (and other similar accounts) rather an indication that there is a common historical reality around which a mythology grew up (by whatever means) in the various instances and cultures? This is not to negate the historicity of Genesis - rather, that other cultures explain common universal historical events (e.g. Creation and the Flood) differently. So when there are significant similarities, couldn't that just mean that these are two witnesses to an historical event? Or am I way out in left field?
I have to challenge you on this If you're main defense is that there are more differences than there are similarities to stories from older traditions and religion that is a weak argument. I'll keep this short and simple, think about this If I wanted to steal somebody else's story or if there was an old fictional book that I love and wanted to replicate it and make it my own, I would keep a few important similarities, but then add my own creativity thoughts, motives, and interest, or personal agendas. i would not copy it verbatim, one hundred percent and then be found to be a fraud later on You understand what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, we cannot prove or disprove if the stories from the bible were copied from older traditions and religions, but to try to disprove it because of differences, falls flat
@05:08 "[The Enuma Elish] is as opposite in its intention and narrative from Genesis as you could possibly get." No. This is patently false. There are obvious thematic and literary parallels between the Priestly Creation Myth in Genesis 1 and the Enuma Elish. Moreover, the parallels between the Epic of Gilgamesh and parts of the second creation story in Genesis 2-3 are jut as strong, if not more so.
A comparative study of the Noah and Gilgamesh flood stories was undertaken by Nozomi Osanai about 20 years ago to examine the possibilities of one being derived from another or of both being derived from an earlier document. From memory: the earliest compilation of Gilgamesh is earlier than the earliest compilation of Noah, but Noah is much more credible/feasible/possible on a number of accounts, so either one being derived from the other was ruled out. The conclusion was that both derived from another earlier account and that the Noah document was a more faithful copy (again, from memory).
I’m here because of debate with him and Billy and something is not right about Wes. I call 🧢. All of his videos are to debunk all of the stuff that would make someone walk away from Christianity but then when I watch the videos they just don’t do it for me. It’s too convenient. It’s always “ we believe” or “most scholars believe”. That’s opinion then, not fact. He is biased imo.
Everyone has biases, and Wes has clearly stated his in other videos. When referring to scholars of a field, it is typical to refer to them as a group, but if you want specific annotation or references, RUclips videos probably not the right place for them. If you have serious scholarly questions, you may need to do some serious scholarly research. At the end of the day you, like everybody else, will have to make up your mind based on the information you have before you. There’s no way you can know everything there is to know before making up your mind about almost anything. The preponderance of evidence… And then some faith.
It’s obvious that the stories are similar and obvious that each culture would adapt them to their own beliefs. The Bible is inspired by Mesopotamian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Canaanite (and probably more) religions. Apostle Paul borrows “in Him we live and move and have our being” from a hymn to Zeus. Even Jesus quotes an Egyptian proverb “the kingdom of heaven is within you” Personally, I think they were “borrowed” and refined to a better way of being, which is displayed in Christ. Him being the fulfillment of what every religion/culture is in search of
Flood The Atrahasis is the Akkadian/Babylonian epic of the Great Flood sent by the gods to destroy human life. Only the good man, Atrahasis (his name translates as `exceedingly wise’) was warned of the impending deluge by the god Enki (also known as Ea) who instructed him to build an ark to save himself. Atrahasis heeded the words of the god, loaded two of every kind of animal into the ark, and so preserved life on earth. The use of one unusual word even suggests that the biblical account is familiar with the Mesopotamian one: to caulk his ark, Noah is told to use pitch (Gen 6:14), Hebrew kofer, cognate to Akkadian kupru, which is what Utnapishtim uses. This the only time that the word kofer means “pitch” in the Bible; the native Hebrew word for “pitch” is zefet, which is what Moses’s mother uses to waterproof the vessel she builds for her son (Exod 2:3). The word kofer, then, is borrowed directly from Akkadian, and provides the strongest evidence for the Mesopotamian origin of the entire biblical account.[4]
It’s always interesting to see Christian apologists apply critical thinking to anything that poses a threat to the Bible, but not apply that same logic to the Bible itself.
"Tell me you haven't watched my other videos, viewed my published academic papers, lectures or website content on the history of the biblical text without telling me you haven't watched my other videos, academic papers, or website content on the history of the biblical text."
@@WesHuff Christianity is a strange religion because of its weird concept of sin. The sin argument is an interesting one. Christian apologists claim that Adam and Eve were created perfect but they had freewill - hence why they sinned. The problem with this claim is that if they were created perfect then they should have always made perfect decisions. Imperfection does not give birth to perfection. That goes against the rules of logic. PERFECTION BEGATS PERFECTION. IMPERFECTION BEGATS IMPERFECTION. Logic always wins. Therefore, the Christian apologists claim is completely wrong from a logical standpoint - of course, that is if we are using the same logical parameters to assess this topic in the same way we would assess everything else in life. Of course, the Eden story is entirely mythological - but Christian apologists interpret the story literally - thats the problem. You see, All the geographical locations in the bible are actually real - so are the various people groups mentioned in the bible. But all the stories are entire mythological and consist of allegory and metaphor. In fact, all the worlds organised religions are actually the same in this manner. Ancient Humans were simply trying to understand the world around them and their greater purpose - so they wrote what they SURMISED was Gods nature and mixed in their own folklore tales with it. They then put these ALLEGORICAL hybrid tales into books and the resulting end products are what you would call the so called "holy books" from the various people groups around the world. There is nothing surprising about this. Thats just human beings behaving like human beings. Throughout the thousands of years people groups from around the world have done this. The trick is to make the various resulting religions work for YOU. Rather than YOU working for these religions. Hell was not taught as a lake of eternal torture by fire in the Old Testament. The greek idea of hell in the New Testament is very easy to explain. Let us first examine the Jews. The orthodox Jews claim that both Christianity and Islam are actually BASTARDISATIONS of orthodox Judaism. The orthodox Jews do not believe in hell as a place of eternal torture by fire. That would explain why greek ideas of hell have been put in Jesus's mouth by the greek writers of the New Testament. Especially, considering that in order for any person to learn greek 2000 years ago the only greek writings actually available to actually PRACTICE learning the greek language were greek mythological epics which documented precisely greek ideas of hell. For example, Hades and Tartarus are terms for hell copied straight from the greek mythological epics which contained these concepts and ideas. People simply learnt these Greek epics as a way of practicing reading and writing greek as the main greek writings were all mythological works. The New Testament writers then copied these greek ideas of hell into the greek New Testament they were writing and assigned Christian concepts to them. The New Testament is a fusion of Judaism and Greek mythology. Hellinistic Judaism is well documented by Orthodox Jews themselves. It was eventually suppressed - but It re-emerged as New Testament Christianity in 325ad. The difference is that this time it was backed by the state of Rome in what became known as Roman Catholicism. ALL, the various protestant denominations copied these doctrines as they branched off from Roman Catholicism. They left out other doctrines and took the main doctrines into their new Protestant version of Christianity.
The struggle to accept the two animals of every kind, on a ship, for forty days... were they caged, shackled or grouped together at the bottom of the boat? What kind of sickness and diseases can come out of such an environment?
Wes... could the similarities between Noah and Gilgamesh demonstrate a shared historical narrative rather than a copy of one from the other? In other words, Noah is the Jewish account of the flood, whereas Gilgamesh is the Mesopotamian account of the flood. Differences are due to religion and geopolitics. Both serve as written evidence of a flood, but both written from different anthropological perspectives. As a Christian, I ascribe to Noah, but I do find it fascinating how there are many other flood accounts throughout the world. What are your thoughts?
There are also many stories of things like slaying a monster, winning the heart of a woman, brothers fighting, evil advisors betraying their king, etc. Floods happen a lot, and building a boat to weather one seems pretty intuitive (though predicting one that big will come in time to build your boat maybe isn't). You'd need more details to say it's the same flood, I'd think.
Its obvious to anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together that these stories have evolved, been borrowed, retold and rewritten over thousands of years. Anyone can reconcile just about anything if you could be bothered listening to them for long enough but personally, im not into apologetics
I did an assessment on this last year and the message I came to was that the ancient near eastern (ANE) people were using ANE thinking to convey biblical truths whilst also directly challenging ANE beliefs and ideologies. And like Wes says, you see that clearly when you analyse the differences. It truly shows the creative ingenuity of the authors, and how different and lovely our God is compared to the ANE gods. Great video.
This might be viewed as a " _Deus Ex Machina_ " sort of explanation here but, I believe that any similarities between biblical stories and the myths and legends of various cultures, is the work of Satan tring to distort the word of God, because he is an imitator, not a creator. After all, any information we have about the past has been made through archaology, so how are we to really know if the "histories" of these ancients were not the fabrication of Satan, done with the intention of casting doubt on the originality of the Biblical stories? Again, this could be viewed as just 'catchall' explanation, but it's just my personal belief.
This video simultaneously infuriated me and made me laugh. Pretending to use logic in this video was pretty hilarious the flood best exists on all continents
8:30 really..? The MAJORITY of scholars also "don't think so"? Maybe I misunderstood your statement. Can you be clear about what it is exactly that you think the majority of scholars "don't think so" about?
Can we have Wes Huff and Paul Wallis discuss these issues. I respect these two bible scholars, but they have divergent views. Wes seems to be making more sense after watching his debate with Billy.
Human, caucasian, male, resident of earth, both have eyes, born of a woman, can speak english, and I'll wager they both like pizza and music. Get a life, Huff. Quit copying Jean Claude Van Dam.
@ speaking english yes, but the accents are both horrible! This dudes canadian accent is the most annoying I ever heard, so many channels I follow & actors that are canadian, this dude is by far the worst
Could you point me to some resources to see the similarities you are talking about between the other cultures that we know didn’t interact? I’d like to see how similar their stories are. At first glance to me the similarities between Noah and Gilgamesh seem pretty striking rather than minor details. And it makes sense that there would be significant differences because I doubt they stole or borrowed or plagiarized but rather stories were just influenced and got mixed in as they were retold.
The exploitation of these similarities in lieu of the differences began early, as religious bias, religious wars and anti semitism have plagued the plight of the "chosen people" since before their exile out of Egypt. That there is endless knowledge now available at our fingertips only reinvents the polemic for us in the 21st century and restarts an age old argument that began over 3000 years ago. I'm sure they had a guy like "Wes" back then to assure "the word" gets to the right people, the most people, in spite of the atheist community of heathens trying everything in their satanic power to silence it. And God is still powerful and present today, albeit with satanic forces currently wreaking havoc all over the globe. Well done, Wes! God reigns!
The six days of creation, the creation of Adam, the flood, Moses and the exodus are all plagiarisms of earlier Mesopotamian, Ugaritic and ancient Egyptian texts. When people plagiarize, they take an existing story then change some of its components around according to your new world views. However, the similarities are undeniable. The Israelites created a tradition based on other people’s myths and heritage. Besides, the stories themselves are scientific and historical myths. Therefore to have any core similarities between Biblical stories and earlier stories that are nothing but myths and legends tells you a lot about the Bible’s credibility.
Bro, you're trying to generalize the idea of borrowing across multiple genres to wash over the specifics in the similarities. The reason is to protect your faith, not in the pursuit of truth. And stop pointing to philology. The one academic cannon that blows your entire world view just by existing lol.
The story of a world wide flood in Genesis, is just an adaption from other ancient religions and mytholgies. It's nothing new. That's what the whole entire bible is.
Yea this is just cope, no where in this video is there evidence that genesis didn’t borrow from the epic of Gilgamesh, that’s what most biblical scholars believe because they were written in Babylon and the priests who wrote it definitely knew about the epic of Gilgamesh, it’s a story a thousand years older then Genesis … on top of tanta global flood is scientifically and historically debunked, these stories likely cole form localized flood myths
@@KhemBMD I did listen to the video , he doesn't reliable or independant sources that confirm his claims. Most of his claims are from random videos and web pages from the internet. The biblical flood is a made up story.
@@KhemBMD Genesis and and the epic of Gilgamesh have to many simularties. That the problem . If the Epic of Gilgamesh never exsted then the Geneis flood would have happened. This video is just propaganda on the internet.
One simple quote that we find in the Babylonian. Creation Smith is that the lions can lay with the lamb. And we find such quotes and the Old Testament. I can't keep doing this like come on, man
If we look at the Utnapistim story in the Gilgamesh tale, we can see something very funny. The Utnapistim story itself is a side story to the Gilgamesh story, and it is a myth borrowed from somewhere, and the flood itself is a story that was lengthened because of Gilgamesh, rather than ending cleanly. In the first place, why did Anu take Utnapistim and his wife to another place after the flood had already ended? And he moved the large ship that could carry people and all animals to Mutnusu? This is just a device to make Gilgamesh and Utnapistim meet. Furthermore, if we look closely at the structure of the island where Utnapistim lives, we can see that it is none other than the island where the waters of the lower world flow, that is, the underworld. In other words, the meeting between Gilgamesh and Utnapistim is ultimately a variation of Gilgamesh's exploration of the underworld. Gilgamesh's encounter with Siduri, the owner of the inn on the border of the underworld, was ultimately nothing more than a shaman who could travel to the underworld connecting Gilgamesh to another point in the underworld. If we structurally examine the various myths of the world, the simpler one is more likely to be the origin of two similar myths. In the first place, myths were 'acted' through speech, not writing, and realistic scenes were always added to increase their validity or persuasiveness. On the other hand, written records tend to become simpler as the social implications or common knowledge at the time they were written increased. In other words, by the time the Gilgamesh myth was collected and compiled into writing, many variations had already been spread through oral tradition. So which one is older and more original: the simple Noah's flood, which has no oral structure modifications, or the Utnapishtim myth, which has a complex structure with clear traces of various additions? Now that I think about it, I find myself laughing.
Wes, isn't it true that many ancient flood accounts were written amongst different civilizations before the writing of Genesis? If so, naturally there would be a variety of stories that include a flood but not necessarily an origin of civilization aspect? Essentially, they were all written, but only one can be true.
Wouldn’t it be more likely that the Biblical event was simply retold in a cultural telephone game throughout the world and was preserved best by prophets in scripture?
Anyone here after the Billy Carson drama to learn more?
You better believe it!!!
Yep
Ya and im diggin everything but the totally 80s background music 😝
Never even heard of Wes until the billy carson thing so billy actually did me a favor
Yep, he got exposed
Genesis 1-11 is a polemic against Mesopotamian stories, history, and theology. Its not plaguerizing from them but refuting them.
Cope
@Hunter-cl6bw Yes, I'm coping using the mainstream scholarly opinion on this.
@@clovismerovingian7764you're not coping you're speaking facts bro i been looking into this lately. I used to a be a little donkey like the guy who commented against you. But after doing research I found the truth.
Agree. I think William lane Craig believes that as well.
Yes. Tower of Babel
I believe the flood story is told in over 300 cultures.
Even more than 300, ruclips.net/video/lM0RgVz5gjg/видео.htmlsi=GG7-etoJcF3mVRQG
100% correct
☺️ the flood legend is in over 100 cultures
It's a world wide event I would wish to believe that such a world wide event would be recorded in majority of this worlds cultures
Amd your cult texts came thousands of years later. Your is the last remake of the story. So how's yours true when you fictionalize history. 😂😂
@garybowman5783 Ad ho·mi·nem attacks weaken your stands.
The world is filled with a flood event if you bother to investigate.
It's your soul if you don't believe in a living God
It is recorded in the epic of Gilgamesh that Utnapishtim made an ark that was square. It was shaped like a cube. Noah's ark was rectangular. A cube is the least stable boat model that exists. A cube will capsize at the slightest wave. Noah's ark was six times as long as wide, and ten times as long as high. It turns out that those are the best proportions for a stable freighter. Noah's ark really is the best boat model you can possibly have. Dutch author Ben Hobrink talks about this in his book, 'Moderne Wetenschap in de Bijbel' (Modern Science in the Bible).
Very good point, Leon! The dimensions of Utnapiahtim’s vessel are clearly untenable for being a seaworthy boat and mark a stark difference to the Genesis account.
@@WesHuff A scaled-down round ark was built based on its description in a 3700 year old cuneform - it floated just fine.
@@davenewton4862 it did float, but it also capsized and flipped upside-down and right-side-up continually while it was floating. Hence my use of the term untenable.
@@WesHuff from an article about this in the Daily Mail: "Sadly, however, the Ark was not as perfect as it seemed and when launched, water began leaking into the hull. A pump was used to keep it afloat.
Despite this, Dr Finkel said that the inferior bitumen was to blame, but the Babylonian design was watertight and produced a stable vessel."
@@davenewton4862 So I just looked up the citations and the dimensions. What Dr. Finkel went off of was the vessel version in the Atrahasis Epic (as I mention in the video was what the flood narrative in Gilgamesh was most probably borrowed from), where the vessel is circular. However, by the time that it gets to the versions of Gilgamesh it states that the boat's "walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height, the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times its cubits each." This would make it a perfect square of 120 cubits per side (with 6 decks and 7 levels with 9 compartments in each as described in the Epic XI).
I'm Asian and we have our flood story, I think we all got our flood stories from Noah's flood.
Doesn't mean Noah wasn't plagiarized.
The fact that Gilgamesh story is older than Noah’s and yes you could say their differences are big, and you can’t deny the other 200+ flood myths across the world and the striking resemblances between Gilgamesh and Noah’s flood story. Yes it doesn’t PROVE it was borrowed, but it can’t be DISCOUNTED either. At the very least it’s interesting and to be honest as a non believer the fact that this story is told across the world reinforces for me the possibility that something like this could have happened, rather than discount the story.
Very well said. I believe it's also important to remember that the Hebrew language didn't exist when the flood is believed to have happened. So while the story was written in Sumerian and Akkadian first, the tradition existed in Jewish culture for thousands of years before Genesis was written. There's no way of really knowing which culture knew the story first.
Apologies if any of this is addressed in the video. I'm not a historian/scholar/archaeologist, and far from an expert. I just saw your comment before I started watching and found it interesting.
@UniverseAnomaly All history is probabilities. NOAH is extremely unlikely. All oral traditions develop over time.
Why are we debating Noah.? It didn't happen and couldn't happen in the way with results portrayed.
Besides. Makes God an incompetent, nasty piece of Work. Sentient creatures deserve better care.
Fundamentalist Christian's, like Huff, are the reason nobody respects church
@@steveburris6543 they will find Noah's arch if they haven't already. Just like the rest of the Bible has been historically accurate this will be shown to be true very soon.
This is what Billy Carson should have said 😂
My Christian worldview has lead me to believe that when God confused the people with different languages and the tower of Babel, they all went their separate ways but they had the same stories and technology that was incorporated into what would become their different cultures.
That is exactly what happened.
Keep up doing God’s work. You’re doing a great job debunking all this New Age Billy Carson nonsense.
I remember 30 years ago in a humanities college course the liberal Methodist professor telling us about the “many” stories of Gilgamesh and he basically told us the Bible borrowed from these stories. This was a stumbling block to me and seeded doubt for so many years.
They are agents of satan and it also happened to me too, although in a different way.
I believe he controls all the systems of the world with the main goal to deceive so that we all miss out on God's salvation.
I too studied under a Methodist minister (Dr. Norment) The Study of the Old Testament in 1990. The textbook I still have at home somewhere. I don't recall if Dr. Norment said that the story of the flood in Genisis was copied from the story of Gilgamesh but the textbook said that the story didn't appear in the ancient Hebrew, Israelite, or Jewish literature until after the Babylonians captivity. The textbook and Dr. Norment did say the parting of the Red Sea was a typo. It was originally The Sea of Reeds, a swampy area near the Nile delta.
I can't wait to get home and pull that book out. I think it was written by someone named Drane or maybe Drake
I went to a free Methodist college and was told the same thing. They also said John was old and crazy when he wrote Revelation.
Your not alone
Just how the devil intended it to!
Thank you, I was searching for this for a very long time
Just because it was weitten first does not mean it is older. These were stories passed down verbally for many generations before they took written form.
I have a question. If Adam was the first man, who were the people in the territory that Cain went to after killing Abel?
If I may humbly respond to your question. Please note that the Bible doesn't give us the comprehensive details we may want, it focuses on tracing the main issues like creation, origin of sin, murder and such.
Just like in the movies we're not given all the details, most are cut out, otherwise it'll be too long.
Similar with the Bible; imagine if God instead of saying, He created the fish, He gave details of each one of them, same with trees, insects before reaching the creation of Man.
Adam had other sons and daughters Genesis 5:4 but it focuses on these two. Cain married one of his sisters and established a city.
The same way Jacob had 12 sons but we're not given details of each one of them but the main characters.
Please don't miss out on the grace of God. Only because you're not given the many details you demand. God has given what is necessary in His wisdom for our salvation.
Understand the Bible teaches that we have all sinned by breaking the law. Such as Do not lust, lie, steal, commit adultery etc. We have been sentenced to death but our souls face a second death - a life sentence into the lake of fire.
God has provided a fine by giving His Holy Son Jesus to die in our place and redeem our souls.
If only we would believe Him to receive Salvation. Then we would be saved, embrace a new lifestyle that is led by Jesus. Whom we acknowledge or confess as LORD and saviour by studying and following His teachings.
Thank you
So your advice is to just ignore what does not make sense to us?
@@1jumbojumbo1 not at all, approach truth with humility, conduct an in-depth research, reason critically, and evaluate evidence honestly. If the truth of Jesus is undeniable, acknowledge and submit to it.
Thank you.
@1jumbojumbo1 you can read for yourself and find this information to draw your conclusion, but you have to read from the sources, not just be quick to type comments without doing your research.
@@edwnji Thanks for your response. are you saying That Cain practised incest with his sister?
Satan has been at work plagiarizing God since the garden. Not the other way around.
Consider that Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees, in Sumeria. Wouldn't he have brought the tech and knowledge of that civilization?
Amen!
I think your critique here is quite harsh since so many details are the same. They obviously have a common base
These people are half wits
Provide counter evidence or just stop.
@Azul901 Read the text and stop ignoring what you chose. Plenty evidence has long been provided
@Azul901 you don't read or accept anything outside your belief so why even ask for evidence in the first place
The common base is that there was a global flood.
There's a huge oversight here. The date of the flood is at least 2,500 BC in other words the story is older than Gilgamesh which is dated from various versions 1600 - 2100 BC. There are approximately 200 or more variations of the story in cultures throughout the Earth. It's like having witnesses at all points of the globe that testify to this event, even in places that a flood story would not even be thought of in the region as it would appear to be impossible, yet is nevertheless engrained into the human experience. In different accounts the sizes of the boat would not fit a large population, or be seaworthy, or the duration in order to achieve the height of water would not be long enough, the receding of the waters would have been catastrophically too fast, or in other cases much fewer people and animal types all of which seem to miss important details that are left out of the account that are not realistic, but the Bible account is. It's the accurate original and not the compacted, or mistated summary of others.
The original story was handed down by Noah and eventually to Abraham then 400 years later or so Moses recorded the faithful account in Genesis as the permanent, accurate record of God's story.
Absolutely. The Flood was a worldwide event, so one would expect to have accounts of it from cultures all over the world. One would also expect that these stories, as they drift further and further from the original account, would become less detailed and more prone to inaccuracies, the actual "telephone game" that the unscholarly accuse the Bible of being.
More proof that the great deluge was around 12,800 yrs ago
You do realize , Hebew language didn't develop until around 1000 BC. How could have Hebrews known about the flood if their language didn't exist until 1500 years after alleged Biblical Flood.
@AskOurPastor, unfortunately, based on the work done by people like Gad Barnaea, Schlomo Sand and Yonatan Adler, there is little to no evidence for the existence of a 'Moses'.
The Torahic narratives don't seem to have existed in any form till at least the 6th or 7th century BCE, and weren't formalised into the Torah till at least the 5th or 4th century BCE. Beyond that, there is no evidence of the 'observance' of the Torah, till after the Maccabean period.
There also has been no evidence found for the 'exodus' and 40 years of being stuck in the wilderness, but such a huge group of people as claimed in the Bible.
@Shawner666 and English is about 1400 years old. You discussing thousand year old texts written in another language. Please get an education
The fact that W. Huff has done such an intelligent body of work and research and is willing to share that effort at no charge, is something I will be eternally grateful for. If I ever stumble across this young man in person, I plan to thank him profusely! Thank you so much, Mr. Huff!
Yes.We had to have a spiritual awakening for a reason because we werent taught the truth/real history and DNA confirmed it.
True!
What did dna do?
You cant read dna, you can only hope some guy in a labcoat is telling the truth.
My only thought in response (in addition not rebuttle, obviously) to this is: It's pretty obvious that if globally (not just the ANE) you have similar stories about a global flood, and a dude and a boat... with animals, etc. etc. etc. Similar events in scope and scale - with maybe key players being different and maybe specific animals being listed, that means that something DID happen. However, it was likely before things were written and so while people spread out (Babel), the narrative shifted and changed over time. For example, my dad doesn't remember how i crashed the car. He wrote a letter adding all these details that just weren't true to the original event from 20 years ago. Key details were correct - but the peripherals in it - incorrect.
Anyway, great thoughts! Been appreciating your stuff for a while!
How about a dude saved a few goats from a flood using a raft, and he embellished a bit. Play a few hundred years of telephone game, and voila!
Some ancient fiction author realizes how cool a story it would make if it had some more embellishments added.
Does this sound like it’s at least a remote feasible possibility? Be honest…
Good logical point my dude
Happy to find sane people here
@@Godwin_7 Sure, it is a "remotely feasible possibility". But makes even less sense. It makes more sense that a real flood happened that was spread over time and gets changed as more people tell the story.
There really was a big flood in the area where the Noah/Gilgamesh story originated. I could easily imagine lots of people scrambling for boats in a effort to preserve what they have. I’m sure wherever in the world there was a disaster, stories were told of it. Are you saying nobody ever related stories of local floods to their kin? Or embellished a story until now? Or that there were no fiction writers back then (story-tellers, before writing was invented)? Had the lie not been invented yet? Now what do you think is more likely…
@@Godwin_7 the only reason for this theory is because we have yet to find sufficient evidence that dates back this far. however, the Bible has consistently remained the same from 700 BC - 21st century AD. truthfully, there is no reason to doubt something that has remained so consistent and has time and time again been back by secular evidence. is it possible that the telephone game is a factor? sure. nothing is impossible. but, the Bible would likely be very different from it's original text if that were an issue, and it's not. it suggests the truth that something was guiding humans in the writing process. because human would most likely mess it up, but the fact that we haven't is a testament to God's guidance. the Quran is the definition of the telephone game, and was never guided by God, because it is not from him. due to that, we see discrepancies in the story's as they pertained to Mohammad, and has made a book which is not credible in nature.
You didn't mention that Gilgamesh is Nimrod and Utnapushtim is Noah. So the Babylonian story is a twisted version of the Flood story twisted by the descendents of Nimrod after he disobeys God and then reencountered by the Israelites and the correct versuon of the Torah many centuries later. Thus is also mirrored by Hercules (Nimrod) in Greek mythology, since the Greeks worship the evil, fallen Adam and Eve (Zeus and Athena) and divided up Noah's symbols among other gods (Iris' rainbow, Nereus' fish, Geryon's three-bodied form (Noah's three sons), the golden apples of the Hesperides, etc.).
There's some evidence to suggest that Yahweh might've been considered a storm god and lived on top a mountain, much like Zeus.
Thanks for this video Wes! Keep doing what you're doing. Your content has been a big help to me!
I look at it as not a mythical story but documentation of an event, like if CNN covers a story then 3 weeks later ABC does. It doesn't mean ABC plagiarized CNN, it just means they covered it too.
Exactly. It’s obviously the same event.
Thank you for all your great content! I learn so much. All the details you present are so fascinating. Thanks Wes!
Loving the content!
We should also consider how ancient tribal priestly classes had their own polemics, counter-texts, borrowing, and diffusions. I believe the biblical text employs all of those devices, especially in light of how each of the ten plagues mock Egyptian gods to show the supremacy and exclusivity of YHWH. So, although there are similarities between ancient Near Eastern origin myths, angel battles, and flood accounts, the biblical text portrays the most accurate and fully correct revelation of the ancient past each of those ancient tribal priestly classes were attempting to portray.
Coming from Islam, I can affirm the same concepts u mention are in book, and the supplementary canon (hadith)
It isn't just the Sumerians, I was on Signal Mountain in Chattanooga and there was a plaque posted with a Cherokee flood myth. So did the Cherokee steal the myth from the Sumerians?
This is great. Thanks. What’s your opinion o the JEPD theory? Have you made any ideas or references on it?
Lets not take for granted that each book of the Bible was not put together as it is now but they where separate text written by different people during different periods. I am no scholar but as far as Genesis goes the concept of monotheism was not so set in stone yet. As when Yawheh spoke he spoke in plural Let us us make man in our own image. Man has now become as one of us knowing good from evil. I understand when you go to church they try to explain this as the heavenly host or the future trinity. However, it is very unlikely that whoever wrote those text had any concept of the new testament in mind.
You’re completely wrong and the idea they didn’t know about the “future Trinity” is wrong. If you actually know the Bible you would clearly see the Trinity in the Old Testament and Genesis. You’re speaking out of complete ignorance.
In Hebrew you can use plural words to describe something singular
@@BonzTrinitarianyou would also clearly see that there are 2 differing accounts of the creation story and Noah’s story
@@lukeanthony8755 You’re high
fyi this is also followed by it being made very clear that God is doing this alone. "So God created man in his own image; he created him in the image of God, he created them male and female".
Background music is overrated. It is more than enough to listen to your explanation without any distracting music.
As a matter of the Christian faith, believers believe that Moses wrote Genesis as dictated by God. So even though Genesis was recorded after the epic of Gilgamesh, the events described happened before, as Moses was not alive during the events described in Genesis.
Moses was never alive. He’s a mythological character as are all the patriarchs of the OT.
@@torreyintahoeprove it
@@Gggggoose it’s the overwhelming academic consensus. There are many reasons that historians have that opinion.
Your false logic and opinions do not make any sense. Modern archeology discoveries are going on in many countries in the Bible and many new discoveries are made every year by non believers that prove the Bible is a book based on history and prophecy. Evidence is everywhere, GOD BLESS ❤@torreyintahoe
I wouldn't believe anything Academia says they have an agenda and if they say otherwise they are out of a job
It took weeks for them to admit that the cities of Sodom and Gamorah had been destroyed by a massive heat event with high concentrations of Sulphur found @@torreyintahoe
I’m glad the newer videos don’t have the background music. I can’t listen to this but I love Wes.
Wes, I know that your channel is a cross between educational, academic and apologetics but I have a spiritual angle I’m curious about.
From what we can tell there are a couple hundred flood stories from across the world. This would make sense from a complete destruction of everything and a reset from a common landing point, also taking into consideration the Tower of Babel.
But were only certain parts of Genesis given to Moses from God, or was most of it? I’m curious because the creation accounts sound like the Words of the Creator, the Ten Commandments obviously are, the laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy are, as well as many others. And we know from scripture that God was very close with Moses. What is the academic possibility that Moses’ account of the flood are simply God clarifying the story during discussions with Moses? I know by injecting the spiritual into the conversation it complicates the academic/scientific part of my question, but is it possible that the story of Noah is more recent than other versions, because God told Moses a clarifying explanation, rather than Moses just stealing from previous stories to make his own? The size, shape and contents of the Arc, seem more realistic than the older forms mentioned in other narratives to me.
Of course, this is with the caveat that I am a Christian and I take the Word of God over all else and so I want to ensure to others that my biases are clearly accepted from my vantage.
Yes, you are absolutely right; accuracy of the story makes it more reliable. And the best explanation is God showing Moses all the facts and events from Noah’s flood.
Fantastic video wes! I appreciate your scholarly approach to the subject, and i very much enjoyed how you presented the material. I hope the nay sayers dont get in your head. You've got a new fan!
Worldwide flood, passed on by the survivors. Chinese whispers takes hold, things get distorted, main point still stands; worldwide flood.
I think it might’ve been a local flood
@ I think it's more likely a global catastrophe. Fossils all over the world. Rock formations appearing 'bent', due to early sediments being soft and hardening once exposed. Flood narratives all over the world. Many ancient temples completely covered in dirt.
The Bibles account of it is the only highly detailed version that accounts for the changes of the earth. The ground opened up, and it rained. It would have been absolute chaos with tectonic plates being disrupted, pushing in to eachother and creating mountains, which explains why we find fossilised sea creatures. Unless you want to argue that a local flood reached the tops of the mountains and not the other continents around it.
all I see is people saying , it came before the bible , the bible took the stories yet how far back to manuscripts go? when did Moses write down the book? what about simply hearing orally or witnessing the things of God? it seems these writings even if they did come before a complete bible OR EVEN the manuscripts for that matter or original texts that these writings only support the scriptures by recording the events . The King James bible is one of the best selling books around the world and continues to be , not the epic of gilgamesh , and for good reason .
The reason is because those who invaded and conquered the world at that time rewrote history. What about the council of Nicae 325 ad. The problem with the validity of the Bible is man wrote it. Point blank period. If I said God inspired me to add to the Bible a new book, I'd be thought of as insane. Sometimes logic and reason trumps everything.
Flavius Josephus
That is not an argument. At all, pal
@@whynot1548 Who said it was lol. Just some points of interest that will kill all of this. If you want an argument. Let's get into the dates. And not the ones propagated by egyptolgy. How old is the Bible? Who wrote it, and how is it validated?
Moses didn't write anything. Most likely never existed. It's like trying to date when Little Red Riding Hood went to the forest.
Which story is older? The epic of Gilgamesh it the story of Noah?
Gilgamesh
Pretty irrelevant if you can't actually prove borrowing and there are good reasons to conclude that they are fundamentally different
@@rayzas4885 Fundamentally similar, in detail dissimilar. But both are just stories.
The first one
Only one is written by eyewitness….
Hey Wes! Love your stuff. To be quite frank, I got deeep in the gnostic rabbit hole. By different historical findings and rituals I read about as well as you explaining the differences in language written proved it wouldn't have been written by thomas himself. You're doing phenomenal work! Keep it up buddy!
Comparison:
The flood stories of Noah (from the Bible) and Utnapishtim (from the Epic of Gilgamesh) share several similarities, reflecting their shared origins in ancient Near Eastern traditions. Here’s a breakdown of the key parallels:
Similarities
1. Divine Warning
Noah: God warns Noah about the impending flood to cleanse the Earth of wickedness (Genesis 6:13-17).
Utnapishtim: The god Ea/Enki secretly warns Utnapishtim about the gods' decision to destroy humanity with a flood.
2. Construction of a Vessel
Noah: God instructs Noah to build an ark of specific dimensions using gopher wood.
Utnapishtim: Ea tells Utnapishtim to construct a massive boat with precise dimensions, resembling a cube in shape.
3. Preservation of Life
Noah: Noah brings his family and pairs of animals (male and female) to repopulate the Earth.
Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim saves his family, artisans, and animals of every kind.
4. The Flood
Noah: The flood lasts 40 days and nights, covering all the mountains (Genesis 7:12, 7:19).
Utnapishtim: The flood lasts 6 days and 7 nights, submerging the land.
5. Resting of the Boat
Noah: The ark comes to rest on Mount Ararat as the waters recede (Genesis 8:4).
Utnapishtim: His boat rests on Mount Nisir.
6. Sending of Birds
Noah: Noah sends out a raven and then a dove to find dry land. The dove returns with an olive branch (Genesis 8:6-12).
Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim releases a dove, a swallow, and a raven. The raven does not return, indicating dry land.
7. Post-Flood Offerings
Noah: After the flood, Noah offers a sacrifice to God, who makes a covenant never to destroy the Earth by flood again (Genesis 8:20-21).
Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim makes a sacrifice to the gods, who regret the flood and vow not to destroy humanity again.
---
Differences
1. Reason for the Flood
Noah: The flood is a punishment for human sin and corruption.
Utnapishtim: The flood is decreed because humans had become too noisy and disturbed the gods' peace.
2. Role of Deity/Deities
Noah: The monotheistic God directly commands and interacts with Noah.
Utnapishtim: Multiple gods are involved; Ea/Enki secretly helps Utnapishtim against the will of other gods.
3. Outcome for the Hero
Noah: Noah lives an ordinary life after the flood and becomes the father of post-flood humanity.
Utnapishtim: Utnapishtim and his wife are granted immortality by the gods and live forever at the edge of the world.
---
These similarities suggest that the Noah story and the Epic of Gilgamesh stem from a shared cultural tradition, possibly originating in Mesopotamia, where flood myths were common due to the region's geography and history of devastating floods.
Great post
But they were referring to younger dryas impact “theory” flood
Because wasn’t just some regular flood and we can see scars and remnants of the damage this ancient flood had on earth
World archeological studies prove a world wide flood. The fountains of the deep burst forth in the Bible which is where the majority of water came from not the rain. There are still some huge reservoirs of water under the earths surface. So many stories stem from the one true God. Even Greek mythology draws for the nephilim in part. All religion pulls or walks in step with so many other stories that have continued through history. The biggest difference though is that only one came down from heaven and died a sinners death and became sin who knew no sin that we might become his righteousness. Only one ever claimed to be the way the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father but by him. Only one was resurrected and seen by over 500 witnesses.
That is the messiah Yeshua of Nazareth.
Nobody dies for a lie they know isn’t truth. Yet these disciples died horrible deaths by not renouncing Jesus. They did this because they saw him face to face after his death and resurrection. They knew this is no mere man. This is the King who claims to be God in human form.
God bless.
Soli Deo Gloria.
Merry Christmas.
😊🎄✝️🙏
@@anthonyurso3554
But where do you find evidenve all around the world. At the same level of a world wide flood? Especially at 10,000 years ago?
@@anthonyurso3554Drinking the kool aid of Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock are we? Controlled opposition.
Many ancient Cultures, used and copied the Beliefs and stories from each other, and then later tried to claim it as their own.
Look, if you went thru the great flood on an ark, you wouldn't have to write it down for many centuries. It would be the story of the centuries!
Remember, EVERYONE already knew the story.
Gilgamesh was a version of this story.
300 other verions exist
from Almost EVERY other country.
I have to challenge you on this
If you're main defense is that there are more differences than there are similarities to stories from older traditions and religion that is a weak argument.
I'll keep this short and simple, think about this
If I wanted to steal somebody else's story or if there was an old fictional book that I love and wanted to replicate it and make it my own, I would keep a few important similarities, but then add my own creativity thoughts, motives, and interest, or personal agendas. i would not copy it verbatim, one hundred percent and then be found to be a fraud later on
You understand what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, we cannot prove or disprove if the stories from the bible were copied from older traditions and religions, but to try to disprove it because of differences, falls flat
Yes but if you read Gilgamesh and compare it to Noah, Gilgamesh is the one with all the added details and variations. Noah is the bare bones version. Why copy a story and strip it of everything? If someone copies a story, they add to it. Gilgamesh added to Noah.
@@mombythesea2426 you'd strip it of all the more "mythological" details to try and ground it in reality to make the story seem more plausible
@@theslugboiii5969 Why? In a world where mythology was widely accepted, what would be the motivation to make everything more simple and realistic?
@@mombythesea2426 if you’re a monotheistic religion then you’re going to want to strip away elements like multiple gods as multiple gods means that the one true bible god could possibly be challenged and overthrown. Also maybe the writers of Gilgamesh were just better writers than whoever wrote Genesis, imitations generally pale in comparison to the original work
@ Why create a monotheistic religion? It was viewed as weaker and poorer than a pantheon. It makes no sense to create a new religion and then make it so anti cultural and unpopular. If it’s truly just fiction, they would have followed all the other religions and created something fantastical.
To me as a christian non-historian layman it seems obvious that there can be found echoes of the flood story etc all around the world in otherwise very different epics if the flood and stuff really happened but after the tower people begun to modify and shape the old stories to different imaginative directions.
Yes correlation is not causation
But we see multiple similarities
At a certain point we have to be open minded that all the similarities is not just a mere coincidence
But I’m speaking about how all cultures we influenced by an ancient advanced culture
So less of the idea that stuff was stolen vs just having similar literature due to ancient advanced culture influencing all cultures
And your point? Anyone who has studied ancient history knows that the flood story predates the Bible and the event was described world wide. How about doing a comparison with Jesus and the 40 to 50 worldwide deities pre-dating Christ that shared the Virgin birth, 12 apostles, was crucified and rose from the dead? Better yet, how about debating a biblical scholar who doesn’t go out of their way to make Bible stories fit a Christian narrative, like Francesca Stavrakopoulou.
By the way, does your literal belief in the Bible conclude that the Earth is 6000 years old and man lived with the dinosaurs? Just asking.
All religious texts are stories based off other stories. They cannot be proven nor disproven for the most part. Large sections of history are educated guesses from scholars who may or may not be correct. The best you can shoot for is the simplest idea is hopefully correct, but there is no guarantee. Two people can read the same text and come up with completely different interpretations.
Does the Babylonian flood myth supply any extra information on the Noah flood story? Possibly the stories come from a common source?
Read Atra Hasis as well as epic of Gilgamesh, their flood stories have many shared narratives and it’s obvious that the Noah story is the same story. Read Irvin Finkle books or watch his videos on the similarities. Irvin Finkle is far more qualified than Wes
Wes has made just as much a fool of himself as Carson did !
Please explain Psalm 82 was got speaking to mortals or men when he said though you are Gods you shall die Like Mem.
Maybe there are parallel because the event actually happened
I enjoy your videos but I don’t think you need background music lol. Regardless thank you for what you do.
I think music stops you tube blocking videos based on certain words used. I could be wrong…
Everybody always has to question the Bible. It gets old people
Right
Should we just blindly obey what we have been taught and never decide for ourselves?
@sonofsparda629 why would those people lie? What would they have to gain by making up stories of a global flood or copying what someone else already wrote? Logic dictates that the flood happened. Every culture has its own noah-like story. Logic also dictates that the dinos and man lived side by side. How? We have proof!!! But science doesn't want to believe. How come you won't question them as to why they lie???
@sonifsparda629 So it's fine to question the Bible it even says indirectly to question it in James 1:5 and in Isaiah 1:18 Matthew 7:7-8 Acts 17:11 and more those say it's ok to do it and it encourages to do so to get a better understanding of it i think what they meant was when people claim the Bible is false without looking at any evidence or ideas suggesting it is
Also interesting to note that the story of Noah seems to have some inconsistency or signs that it was multiple stories put together. Such as 6:19 and 7:2 and then 7:12 and 7:24
as a German Biologist and Pythagorean - we face this mystery of the Younger Dryas era and the hypothesis of a Comet Impact - that dramatically changed Climate - the sea level rising more than 100 Meters from sudden Ice Melting. we may have remnants of oral traditions witnessing such an event - all over the earth - not only on one location. The story of “Atlantis” may originate from there. Göbekli Tepe may be related to that. The oral tradition may be part of cultural Identity - to trace the history of a tribe - a nation - back to the origins - and claim originality, uniqueness - a sort of racial arrogance and justification of Superiority over others. Who can be killed, enslaved, conquered, eliminated... For me as a Biologist it is part of Anthropology - how Taboos emerge - the fear of the Unknown, fear of GODS - who can destroy - El Shaddai as a God of Revenge... we have lost the connection to those ancient oral traditions - we do wild Phantasies to create our own entertainment. Ancient Humans lived in a harsh environment - with horrible destructions. We have no imagination how hard that life must have been. may be living in Mosul and Aleppo can give an idea... when Mariupol was destroyed from the Air - and sank into the Black Sea ...creation of a new Myth...
Someone's been listening to the Joe Rogan podcast...
@Wes Huff I am a German Biologist, Biochemist Ph D - I listen to nobody. Science = STUDY. Mathematoi - - Pythagoras...study!The Younger Dryas is an enigma to study! We are fast accelerating to Human Extinction...
@@raginald7mars408 I'm sure you've listened to somebody. At minimum you're reading individuals like Graham Hancock, who are the modern scholastic advocates for what you've described. Your initial comment could have summarized 2 episodes of recent Joe Rogan podcasts. That was the only reason I (jokingly by the way) made the moment. I'm not sure what being *German* in particular adds to you being a biologist. Unless you're specifically studying the biology of Germans? I didn't mention the Younger Dryas Thesis in my video at all so I was commenting more in jest then anything else.
@Wes Huff we are conditioned by the culture we grow up. I have All the horrible European traits you despise. A Warning. You may not appreciate Independent Study - not listening to anybody. it is a scientific puzzle to study the last rapid intense global warming - and it may have fuelled our modern Religions. Charles Darwin was forced to study Theology. As he never listened to anybody - he became a better Biologist - the Art of Study... not listening - Akkus matoi - Listeners - not Scientists - Pythagoras - study...
@@raginald7mars408 With all due respect, I really am not following how much of what you're saying has anything to do with my original video. Nonetheless, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to my own lack of understanding and incompetence.
Well, you haven't convinced me there isn't a common link.
The great flood is a common legend worldwide.
I don't think the similarities in the regional stories can be dismissed.
If you don't understand this story comes from the same stream you're lying right to yourself
These aren't small similarities. It's obviously all from the same story whatever it is however it started.
😂ikr
@@shaygranger4866disregard dung skinned opinions
You are tarded.
Completely different stories.
So many cultures having a similar story tells me this happened, but the stories have been changed here and there like the telephone game. The key is, which one is the truth, and were the others changed for nefarious reasons? Such as to cause distrust?
I mean, if you took either Advil or Arsenic, you’d solve your headache problem.
Wes...
PLEASE have a conversation or debate with Paul Wallis.
I am from India, here hindus have flood story too,with one man Manu and his family saved by Vishnu diety who came as fish, is this also copied from Mesopotamia 😂😂😂
Yeah.
Ever consider theyre both seperate but related traditions concerning the memory of an actual event?
Moses knew about the Epic of Gilgamesh. He had access to the greatest knowledge of his day.
Mosas was raised an Egyptian Prince. He was taught at the best schools. He had the best tutors. They most likely had the biggest library in the world. Of course he knew all the old stories
You mean Moses?
@@michaelmorgan2880 yes
@@Michael-oe3zjThere has never been a global flood, and it is likely that Moses never existed.
Great point
These parallels shouldn’t be sluffed off as surface level as though not important to recognize. Many cultures have many similar parallels whose cultures were spread out over 1000’s of miles. They all just happened to make believe similar elements? Doubtful. But possible. Maybe these cultures are having some sort of shared experiences. Some link that bridges the gap. Worth looking into.
As a thinking Man. My question is, How was it possible to assemble all the animals in the world by a hand full of people. Then feed them, scoop poop, treat for illness etc....not to mention mix fresh water species with salt water species. You must realize how stupid this whole story sounds right?
The Bible says verbatim what kind of animals were on the ark. To summarize, basically all Land animals that had limbs and lungs. You can read it yourself.
The Bible is modern rendition
I study Sitchin work
And sounds like they had dna of the animals
I come from a different school of thought and looking through different lens of course
@@anthonyurso3554exactly! Somebody come tell this man you can not put all those animal on a boat -it would sink 😂
we dont what animals existed back then and also dont know if literally all species were in the ark.
@@starseedmentality2.018the animals that would be on the ark would be babies, for size, procreation, and appetite. Also it says of every kind of animal. So there would be every different dog on the planet it would be only 2 and then from there diversity would come.
It’s the fact that there are similar cataclysmic stories. A great flood. That is a massive similarity that should make us curious and want to continue questioning instead of blind following
Absolutely. I am not hearing anything truly convincing from this man. Surprised he managed to pull one over on Joe Rogan
There are Sumerian tablets that literally tell the story of the garden of Eden, the garden is literally called Eden. I understand defending your religion but at some point things become obvious.
What is in the tablets? Did you read them?
Too many superficial similarities for a normal human not to think that at least some inspiration was taken from them LOL....FOLLOW THE DOGMA FOLLOW THE DOGMA, that's how they feel with their "over explaining" 😅
How does Gilgamesh and Enkidu correlate with the Adam and Eve story, Gilgamesh and Enkidu are after the flood, Adam and Eve are before the flood, you are being deceitful again, playing off the ignorance of your subscribers.
IT Is NOT some people, it is the majority of scholars say the stories are connected, it is only a small group known as "Biblical Scholars" that are saying they aren't the same.and they are very very bias, Sorry I don't trust you Wes Huff.
And neither do I
I didnt watch this video all the way but I believe many of the records in the bible are based on those of the Egyptians. The Egyptians probably had records going way, way back.
There are some surviving texts on papyrus or other paper like materials, but most ancient Egyptian records around today are those carved in stone. I suspect much of the practices condemed in the Bible (idolotry etc.) were influenced by ancient Egypt, but the scriptures themselves are written after the Exodus, when they left Egypt behind.
No. And Joseph taught Egyptians . Etc.....Egyptians were influenced by Moses too. I don't buy it
Problem is we don't have many Egyptian records to go off of
Wes, what do you think about the previous religions before Christianity time? How were they to know about God properly?
The difference is gilgamesh is etched in stone (original) the bible no originals just copies
Doesn't "stealing" or "plagiarizing" imply mythology on both sides (i.e. biblical and Gilgamesh)? Isn't this (and other similar accounts) rather an indication that there is a common historical reality around which a mythology grew up (by whatever means) in the various instances and cultures? This is not to negate the historicity of Genesis - rather, that other cultures explain common universal historical events (e.g. Creation and the Flood) differently. So when there are significant similarities, couldn't that just mean that these are two witnesses to an historical event? Or am I way out in left field?
I’m more convinced Genesis borrowed from Babylon’s after watching this video
I have to challenge you on this
If you're main defense is that there are more differences than there are similarities to stories from older traditions and religion that is a weak argument.
I'll keep this short and simple, think about this
If I wanted to steal somebody else's story or if there was an old fictional book that I love and wanted to replicate it and make it my own, I would keep a few important similarities, but then add my own creativity thoughts, motives, and interest, or personal agendas. i would not copy it verbatim, one hundred percent and then be found to be a fraud later on
You understand what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, we cannot prove or disprove if the stories from the bible were copied from older traditions and religions, but to try to disprove it because of differences, falls flat
Great 😊 video and agree. Question 🙋🏾♂️? The Israelites were in captivity in Babylon. Is it possible they got it from the Israelites?
@05:08 "[The Enuma Elish] is as opposite in its intention and narrative from Genesis as you could possibly get."
No. This is patently false. There are obvious thematic and literary parallels between the Priestly Creation Myth in Genesis 1 and the Enuma Elish. Moreover, the parallels between the Epic of Gilgamesh and parts of the second creation story in Genesis 2-3 are jut as strong, if not more so.
A comparative study of the Noah and Gilgamesh flood stories was undertaken by Nozomi Osanai about 20 years ago to examine the possibilities of one being derived from another or of both being derived from an earlier document. From memory: the earliest compilation of Gilgamesh is earlier than the earliest compilation of Noah, but Noah is much more credible/feasible/possible on a number of accounts, so either one being derived from the other was ruled out. The conclusion was that both derived from another earlier account and that the Noah document was a more faithful copy (again, from memory).
I’m here because of debate with him and Billy and something is not right about Wes. I call 🧢. All of his videos are to debunk all of the stuff that would make someone walk away from Christianity but then when I watch the videos they just don’t do it for me. It’s too convenient. It’s always “ we believe” or “most scholars believe”. That’s opinion then, not fact. He is biased imo.
Everyone has biases, and Wes has clearly stated his in other videos. When referring to scholars of a field, it is typical to refer to them as a group, but if you want specific annotation or references, RUclips videos probably not the right place for them. If you have serious scholarly questions, you may need to do some serious scholarly research. At the end of the day you, like everybody else, will have to make up your mind based on the information you have before you. There’s no way you can know everything there is to know before making up your mind about almost anything. The preponderance of evidence… And then some faith.
You’re brown so I’m not expecting you to be able to grasp reality.
It’s obvious that the stories are similar and obvious that each culture would adapt them to their own beliefs.
The Bible is inspired by Mesopotamian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Canaanite (and probably more) religions. Apostle Paul borrows “in Him we live and move and have our being” from a hymn to Zeus. Even Jesus quotes an Egyptian proverb “the kingdom of heaven is within you”
Personally, I think they were “borrowed” and refined to a better way of being, which is displayed in Christ. Him being the fulfillment of what every religion/culture is in search of
What do you think of the pre Buddhist, daoist Chinese monotheistic stories of shang- di? Those writings have similarities to Genesis as well??
Flood
The Atrahasis is the Akkadian/Babylonian epic of the Great Flood sent by the gods to destroy human life. Only the good man, Atrahasis (his name translates as `exceedingly wise’) was warned of the impending deluge by the god Enki (also known as Ea) who instructed him to build an ark to save himself. Atrahasis heeded the words of the god, loaded two of every kind of animal into the ark, and so preserved life on earth.
The use of one unusual word even suggests that the biblical account is familiar with the Mesopotamian one: to caulk his ark, Noah is told to use pitch (Gen 6:14), Hebrew kofer, cognate to Akkadian kupru, which is what Utnapishtim uses. This the only time that the word kofer means “pitch” in the Bible; the native Hebrew word for “pitch” is zefet, which is what Moses’s mother uses to waterproof the vessel she builds for her son (Exod 2:3). The word kofer, then, is borrowed directly from Akkadian, and provides the strongest evidence for the Mesopotamian origin of the entire biblical account.[4]
Dude lol. Hey what are the specific similarities and differences, Wes? You seem to have cleverly left those out.
It’s always interesting to see Christian apologists apply critical thinking to anything that poses a threat to the Bible, but not apply that same logic to the Bible itself.
"Tell me you haven't watched my other videos, viewed my published academic papers, lectures or website content on the history of the biblical text without telling me you haven't watched my other videos, academic papers, or website content on the history of the biblical text."
@@WesHuff Fair enough,lol. I’ll check them out.
@@WesHuff
Christianity is a strange religion because of its weird concept of sin.
The sin argument is an interesting one.
Christian apologists claim that Adam and Eve were created perfect but they had freewill - hence why they sinned.
The problem with this claim is that if they were created perfect then they should have always made perfect decisions.
Imperfection does not give birth to perfection.
That goes against the rules of logic.
PERFECTION BEGATS PERFECTION.
IMPERFECTION BEGATS IMPERFECTION.
Logic always wins.
Therefore, the Christian apologists claim is completely wrong from a logical standpoint - of course, that is if we are using the same logical parameters to assess this topic in the same way we would assess everything else in life.
Of course, the Eden story is entirely mythological - but Christian apologists interpret the story literally - thats the problem.
You see,
All the geographical locations in the bible are actually real - so are the various people groups mentioned in the bible.
But all the stories are entire mythological and consist of allegory and metaphor.
In fact, all the worlds organised religions are actually the same in this manner.
Ancient Humans were simply trying to understand the world around them and their greater purpose - so they wrote what they SURMISED was Gods nature and mixed in their own folklore tales with it.
They then put these ALLEGORICAL hybrid tales into books and the resulting end products are what you would call the so called "holy books" from the various people groups around the world.
There is nothing surprising about this.
Thats just human beings behaving like human beings.
Throughout the thousands of years people groups from around the world have done this.
The trick is to make the various resulting religions work for YOU.
Rather than YOU working for these religions.
Hell was not taught as a lake of eternal torture by fire in the Old Testament.
The greek idea of hell in the New Testament is very easy to explain.
Let us first examine the Jews.
The orthodox Jews claim that both Christianity and Islam are actually BASTARDISATIONS of orthodox Judaism.
The orthodox Jews do not believe in hell as a place of eternal torture by fire.
That would explain why greek ideas of hell have been put in Jesus's mouth by the greek writers of the New Testament.
Especially, considering that in order for any person to learn greek 2000 years ago the only greek writings actually available to actually PRACTICE learning the greek language were greek mythological epics which documented precisely greek ideas of hell.
For example, Hades and Tartarus are terms for hell copied straight from the greek mythological epics which contained these concepts and ideas.
People simply learnt these Greek epics as a way of practicing reading and writing greek as the main greek writings were all mythological works.
The New Testament writers then copied these greek ideas of hell into the greek
New Testament they were writing and assigned Christian concepts to them.
The New Testament is a fusion of Judaism and Greek mythology.
Hellinistic Judaism is well documented by Orthodox Jews themselves.
It was eventually suppressed -
but It re-emerged as New Testament Christianity in 325ad.
The difference is that this time it was backed by the state of Rome in what became known as Roman Catholicism.
ALL, the various protestant denominations copied these doctrines as they branched off from Roman Catholicism.
They left out other doctrines and took the main doctrines into their new Protestant version of Christianity.
This video is definitely Theology, not scientific history. This guy really believes his argument.
The struggle to accept the two animals of every kind, on a ship, for forty days... were they caged, shackled or grouped together at the bottom of the boat? What kind of sickness and diseases can come out of such an environment?
Wes... could the similarities between Noah and Gilgamesh demonstrate a shared historical narrative rather than a copy of one from the other? In other words, Noah is the Jewish account of the flood, whereas Gilgamesh is the Mesopotamian account of the flood. Differences are due to religion and geopolitics. Both serve as written evidence of a flood, but both written from different anthropological perspectives. As a Christian, I ascribe to Noah, but I do find it fascinating how there are many other flood accounts throughout the world. What are your thoughts?
There are also many stories of things like slaying a monster, winning the heart of a woman, brothers fighting, evil advisors betraying their king, etc. Floods happen a lot, and building a boat to weather one seems pretty intuitive (though predicting one that big will come in time to build your boat maybe isn't). You'd need more details to say it's the same flood, I'd think.
Comment for the algorithm
Plagiarize for the biblical Algorithm!
Adventure Construction Set stuff, right?
Its obvious to anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together that these stories have evolved, been borrowed, retold and rewritten over thousands of years.
Anyone can reconcile just about anything if you could be bothered listening to them for long enough but personally, im not into apologetics
He trying to sell this bullshit..
Guess you didn't listen to a word he said.
@@mattrondeau7466 You guessed wrong
I did an assessment on this last year and the message I came to was that the ancient near eastern (ANE) people were using ANE thinking to convey biblical truths whilst also directly challenging ANE beliefs and ideologies. And like Wes says, you see that clearly when you analyse the differences. It truly shows the creative ingenuity of the authors, and how different and lovely our God is compared to the ANE gods. Great video.
As a believing Christian, I dont think you argued this point well. Its not convincing.
This might be viewed as a " _Deus Ex Machina_ " sort of explanation here but, I believe that any similarities between biblical stories and the myths and legends of various cultures, is the work of Satan tring to distort the word of God, because he is an imitator, not a creator. After all, any information we have about the past has been made through archaology, so how are we to really know if the "histories" of these ancients were not the fabrication of Satan, done with the intention of casting doubt on the originality of the Biblical stories? Again, this could be viewed as just 'catchall' explanation, but it's just my personal belief.
This video simultaneously infuriated me and made me laugh. Pretending to use logic in this video was pretty hilarious the flood best exists on all continents
8:30 really..? The MAJORITY of scholars also "don't think so"? Maybe I misunderstood your statement. Can you be clear about what it is exactly that you think the majority of scholars "don't think so" about?
The flood story did not start with noah, as it is an ancient story copied into the bible. Always, the truth hurts so extremely.
Can we have Wes Huff and Paul Wallis discuss these issues. I respect these two bible scholars, but they have divergent views. Wes seems to be making more sense after watching his debate with Billy.
Paul Wallis or Marius Baglioni !
11:26 i would LOVE to know your similarities 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Human, caucasian, male, resident of earth, both have eyes, born of a woman, can speak english, and I'll wager they both like pizza and music. Get a life, Huff. Quit copying Jean Claude Van Dam.
@ speaking english yes, but the accents are both horrible! This dudes canadian accent is the most annoying I ever heard, so many channels I follow & actors that are canadian, this dude is by far the worst
It's better than your annoying accent.
Could you point me to some resources to see the similarities you are talking about between the other cultures that we know didn’t interact? I’d like to see how similar their stories are.
At first glance to me the similarities between Noah and Gilgamesh seem pretty striking rather than minor details. And it makes sense that there would be significant differences because I doubt they stole or borrowed or plagiarized but rather stories were just influenced and got mixed in as they were retold.
Mate, let’s not deceive ourselves. It is clear even to a little child that one copied the other. Now decide which copied which
Neither are copying. They are both telling a story that happened. They are just telling it differently with things added or taken away.
The exploitation of these similarities in lieu of the differences began early, as religious bias, religious wars and anti semitism have plagued the plight of the "chosen people" since before their exile out of Egypt.
That there is endless knowledge now available at our fingertips only reinvents the polemic for us in the 21st century and restarts an age old argument that began over 3000 years ago.
I'm sure they had a guy like "Wes" back then to assure "the word" gets to the right people, the most people, in spite of the atheist community of heathens trying everything in their satanic power to silence it.
And God is still powerful and present today, albeit with satanic forces currently wreaking havoc all over the globe.
Well done, Wes!
God reigns!
The six days of creation, the creation of Adam, the flood, Moses and the exodus are all plagiarisms of earlier Mesopotamian, Ugaritic and ancient Egyptian texts.
When people plagiarize, they take an existing story then change some of its components around according to your new world views. However, the similarities are undeniable. The Israelites created a tradition based on other people’s myths and heritage.
Besides, the stories themselves are scientific and historical myths. Therefore to have any core similarities between Biblical stories and earlier stories that are nothing but myths and legends tells you a lot about the Bible’s credibility.
Bro, you're trying to generalize the idea of borrowing across multiple genres to wash over the specifics in the similarities. The reason is to protect your faith, not in the pursuit of truth. And stop pointing to philology. The one academic cannon that blows your entire world view just by existing lol.
If I hear Philology one more time 😂
The story of a world wide flood in Genesis, is just an adaption from other ancient religions and mytholgies. It's nothing new. That's what the whole entire bible is.
Yea this is just cope, no where in this video is there evidence that genesis didn’t borrow from the epic of Gilgamesh, that’s what most biblical scholars believe because they were written in Babylon and the priests who wrote it definitely knew about the epic of Gilgamesh, it’s a story a thousand years older then Genesis … on top of tanta global flood is scientifically and historically debunked, these stories likely cole form localized flood myths
Someone didn’t listen to the video nor knows the archeological record
@@KhemBMD
I did listen to the video , he doesn't reliable or independant sources that confirm his claims. Most of his claims are from random videos and web pages from the internet. The biblical flood is a made up story.
The Biblical Flood story is just a popular Ancient Near East myth story , nothing more.
@@KhemBMD
Genesis and and the epic of Gilgamesh have to many simularties. That the problem . If the Epic of Gilgamesh never exsted then the Geneis flood would have happened. This video is just propaganda on the internet.
One simple quote that we find in the Babylonian. Creation Smith is that the lions can lay with the lamb. And we find such quotes and the Old Testament. I can't keep doing this like come on, man
If we look at the Utnapistim story in the Gilgamesh tale, we can see something very funny.
The Utnapistim story itself is a side story to the Gilgamesh story, and it is a myth borrowed from somewhere, and the flood itself is a story that was lengthened because of Gilgamesh, rather than ending cleanly.
In the first place, why did Anu take Utnapistim and his wife to another place after the flood had already ended? And he moved the large ship that could carry people and all animals to Mutnusu?
This is just a device to make Gilgamesh and Utnapistim meet. Furthermore, if we look closely at the structure of the island where Utnapistim lives, we can see that it is none other than the island where the waters of the lower world flow, that is, the underworld.
In other words, the meeting between Gilgamesh and Utnapistim is ultimately a variation of Gilgamesh's exploration of the underworld. Gilgamesh's encounter with Siduri, the owner of the inn on the border of the underworld, was ultimately nothing more than a shaman who could travel to the underworld connecting Gilgamesh to another point in the underworld.
If we structurally examine the various myths of the world, the simpler one is more likely to be the origin of two similar myths. In the first place, myths were 'acted' through speech, not writing, and realistic scenes were always added to increase their validity or persuasiveness.
On the other hand, written records tend to become simpler as the social implications or common knowledge at the time they were written increased.
In other words, by the time the Gilgamesh myth was collected and compiled into writing, many variations had already been spread through oral tradition.
So which one is older and more original: the simple Noah's flood, which has no oral structure modifications, or the Utnapishtim myth, which has a complex structure with clear traces of various additions?
Now that I think about it, I find myself laughing.
Wes, isn't it true that many ancient flood accounts were written amongst different civilizations before the writing of Genesis? If so, naturally there would be a variety of stories that include a flood but not necessarily an origin of civilization aspect? Essentially, they were all written, but only one can be true.
Wouldn’t it be more likely that the Biblical event was simply retold in a cultural telephone game throughout the world and was preserved best by prophets in scripture?