Real Pilgrims - Us and Them on the Camino de Santiago
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Planning your 1st Camino?
What makes a 'real' Pilgrim?
How far should I walk?
Must I carry a Pack?
Long Distance v Short Distance Camino Pilgrims!
All will be revealed.
👇 TIMESTAMPS (in case you want to skip) 👇
00:00 - Intro
00:25 - Real Pilgrims - Us and Them on the Camino de Santiago Phenomena
11:41 - Outro
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Planning your 1st Camino? 2021, 2022? Which route are you hoping to walk?
The Frances as my baptism, then the Italian one once my training wheels are off.
@@peterbarber5442 Sounds wonderful! I haven't done the 'Italian one' but understand it can be a bit different, with lots of road walking?
@@robscamino I guess so, and less infrastructure like alburgues and camino menus so a tad bit more expensive. But an amazing route nevertheless
Primitivo in June 22’.
I first visited Santiago by car with my wife in 2003, and fell in love with the place. It made such an impression that the following year I took my teenage daughters, again by car, but promised myself that one day I would walk or cycle the Camino. I am planning to walk this year. If all goes to plan my eldest daughter and her family will travel from their home in Andalucía to join me for the final 100 km.
Buen Camino !
Great advice, Rob. Thanks again for a well-done video. Last year I ran into a large family who began their Camino around 100 km from Santiago. They were so animated and excited I couldn't help but smile at their energy. But I was surprised to see the footwear of some of them, the flimsy sandals looking more stylistic than functional. Sure enough, some hours later I passed them and the poor kids were done, crying about blisters. The adults, carrying their packs and those of their kids, were trying to urge them on. I guess my point is a novice's excitement undertaking the adventure is just as real as that of the experienced pilgrim. Their blisters are just as painful. And if I end my Camino with a smug frame of mind at how much more "authentic" my pilgrimage was I'll need to question what I actually learned during those hours of contemplation.
Nicely said 🙂
My first introduction to the Camino was with an organised group for about 8 days from Porto. Had no idea what to expect but I ended up loving it.
Later that year I turned 50 and because I enjoyed the first experience so much I decided to take the time off to celebrate my 50th and walk the full Camino Frances and on to firesterre and by along way it was the best most spiritual experience of my life.
Since then I have done Camino de norte in 2 three week walks a year apart the last being 2019 and again really enjoyed the experience.
That I thought for sure was the end of the Camino for me.
Been there done that and loved it kinda scenario in my head and had no real desire to go back again. Had nothing but good memories of all I had done.
Approximately mid March this something inside me out of the blue started telling me I should go back again.
Could not get the though out of my head but knew I was being called and the more I thought about the more I knew I had to go and have booked the time off again the walk from st jean September 1st and am like a little child looking forward to Xmas thinking about.
PS. Really love your videos. Keep up the good work.
Ted
Buen Camino Ted. Just sitting doing my laundry on current camino.... :-)
@@robscamino enjoy
I walked the camino Frances in april/may 2019. I mostly camped outside. I met many people who were thinking I was a “real” pilgrim and they were just not as good as I was and started apologizing for sleeping in Albergues. I slept in a tent because that is what I absolutely love to do.
One day I was walking with a very nice pilgrim who was injured. His friends with whom he walked from the start had walked ahead and the man was really in need of moral support. When we reached the albergue were he was going to stay his friends came out to Greet us and asked me if I was staying there too. I said no I don’t sleep in albergues. One of his friend then said in a very demeaning voice “ ah you are an hotel person”. My pilgrim friend looked at him and said in a proud voice “ no she is a TENT person. The look on the other man’s face was priceless.😀
A lovely example of people being too concerned about how the mode or style of 'their' Camino compared to 'others' 🙂
Thanks for posting a video on this topic, Rob. As I plan my first Camino, I've been quietly judging myself for 'only' intending to walk 100km due to injury. Your words have helped me let go of that inner judgement and let my Camino be my Camino :)
About 50% of Pilgrims 'only' walk 100 kms or so. 😉
@@robscamino Good to know! :D
Rob, I have watched many of your videos and enjoyed them, but this one hit home the hardest. It was just what I needed to hear. Who are we to judge the motivations or even the abilities of others? A year ago I would not have been able to walk even the last 100 kms. Now I am confident that I can walk the 500 miles beginning in France. But maybe someone can only walk for one day. Does that make his or her effort or desire any less real than mine? Only God can judge that. Thanks for a good reminder that i can walk only in my own shoes and not in the shoes of someone else.
I'm currently walking a more remote Camino. The Via de la plata. Compared to the other pilgrims here, not that there are many, I feel like a total Newbie! They walk faster than me, further than me, many speak some Spanish. But I'm loving it. And all the Pilgrims I have met (about 12) haven been great people. Most seem to have walked many Caminos before. I'm just doing it my way. Shorter distances than most. We do what we can....
We walked from Sarria with Two of our sons and a year later we walked from st Jean to Burgos. COVID stopped our plans to fill the gap. Both sections were very different I loved the Sarria stretch for is being social and fun. We enjoyed seeing Spanish school groups with music and singing. How can you not like kids being outside and having fun. The first section from st Jean as you’d know is harder and not the cafe to cafe walk that Sarria can be. You could class us as tourgrinos as we stayed in b and b’s and hotels. They were brilliant. We still met and made friends Along the Camino. Very good friends. Even if the forums say you won’t make friends unless you are a real pilgrim and stay in hostels. People who criticise those of us that get baggage service and stay in hotels should ask us why before calling us not true pilgrims.
Firstly in my twenties I did the trip to the UK and did the hostel thing already. Secondly. Ive had 2 spinal surgeries and carrying a pack is not a likely prospect. So. As they say it’s my Camino. I loved it and will do the same as soon as our borders reopen. I hardly think that someone who calls themselves a true pilgrim then criticises another because they aren’t doing it the same as themselves shouldn’t really call through pilgrim at all with such an arrogant attitude to fellow travellers
Don't worry I'm with you on all that. I think the Camino teaches us to respect others, not to judge others, and to not have too many expectations. If things don't turn out as we had hoped or planned, maybe there is a reason for it? Maybe it's because we need to learn from it? 🙂
I try not to judge others and if others want to judge me, that's their issue not mine. 😛 For example, on my first Camino I had to use a luggage service in the early stages. Why? Because I had acute tendonitis in both Achilles and I had a bulging disc in my lower back. A week before I departed for my Camino, the most I could walk unaided was about 200-300 metres. But I was going regardless! The day I carried my pack from the rail station to my Hotel in Paris, a distance of 700 metres, was the first time I had been able to carry a pack in 5 weeks! It was agony. But I was happy. I was finally doing my first Camino that had been 2 years in the planning. I learned to cope. Luggage transport, walking very slowly, lots of rest breaks, lots of meds. Visits to a Physio when ever I found one. I was managing about 18 kms a day on average. By the time I reached Sarria, things had become a bit worse though. I was down to about 10 kms a day due to the pain. And didn't want to cause damage by taking too many painkillers. Others probably looked at me and thought, who is that fat old guy carrying a tiny pack, walking so slowly, staying in private accommodation? Well, it was I. A guy who was over joyed to be there and was trying to make it the best way I could. 😜 No one knew about my 'issues'. Why would they?
I have never yet stayed in communal sleeping areas. Quite a few Albergues, but in a private room. Mostly small hostals. A few Hotels. I met loads of people and made lots of friends!
Yep, it’s what I call Camino snobbery, and I also have been guilty of this. Like you, I’ve done several Caminos now, and that snobbery does fade with experience.
Well done. It's hard at times though isn't it? I think of it as just another test of my Pilgrim spirit. LOL
Lol - I had the same feelings as you did- I think seeing new fresh pilgrims with so much energy while I was almost depleted initially angered me but then 2 days later I was seeing them struggle while I being acclimatized to the many km overtook them - eventually it dawned on me that everyone has their own journey there is no right or wrong. I noticed that this stigma was also held around those that had there bags transported or who did shorter distance days. I would like to think that those that survive and make it to Santiago arrive with much changed attitudes.
I think that first Camino can teach us many things. Like don't judge others 🙂
Very good points :)
Always judge others as they are judging you. The bag carriers will not redeem your soul.
Ed Grimshaw. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. No one, not anyone, knows what another person is going through
My Camiño consisted in walking 30 Km - starting it from a village close to Arzúa. The reasons why I decided to do such short trip are that not only I'm from A Coruña and visited Santiago many times before that, but also I have back issues, so I just wanted to experience the sense of freedom and introspection. I wouldn't mind doing 500 Km, but didn't feel oblidged at all.
Sounds nice. I like that section of the Camino Frances. You are very lucky to live close by.
I'm glad you are setting expectations on this as this is something I struggled with initially on my 2021 Coastal Camino Portuguese. The increased competition for beds in the last 100km (made worse by COVID restrictions on occupancy) aggravated the situation for many. With hindsight it is funny that you can get so worked up over such a thing, but you do! For me, what worked was the realization that who am I to define what constitutes an "authentic" Camino? And in that question is a Camino life lesson for sure.
Those final sections are often the best in many ways. And the sections where I often reflect and learn the most 🙂
So this April I will walk from SJPDe P again but turn left at Ponferrada and finish via the more quiet Winter Route - the Invierno and Sanabrés.
Thanks Rob. Inspirational videos to which I can point those who do not understand why we are called to the Camino.
The Invierno looks great doesn't it? I'll be taking that route at the end of the VdlP rather than the Sanabres.
Great video. Very true thoughts you have.
Thanks. Tolerance and acceptance are important 🙂
I remember feeling a little bit overwhelmed leaving Sarria, so many new shiny peregrinos, singing and talking, after the relative peace of the previous 700 kilometres it took a bit of getting used to but you're right the last 100k is beautiful to walk and everyone has to walk their own camino, it's just another challenge to overcome 😜
When I walked my first Camino, I did so injured. An injury from over training. So I was grateful for every day I managed to keep going. I never really expected to make it through 800 kms. So I had a daily ritual of giving thanks for making it through another day. And each day in return I promised to be open to any lessons that I might be presented. Those final stages from Sarria I put down to a final 'test' or challenge. Something else I was to learn from. It required a big change of perspective for me. But I think I learned a great deal from it. It would have been easy to just be resentful and upset and frustrated. But what purpose would that have served? How I wanted to finish my Camino in those final days, was up to me, and no one else....
@@robscamino exactly, I agree totally, letting something affect you over which you have no control will only detract from your own enjoyment and every day on the camino is a bonus for me.
I have admit that I got annoyed several times with some of the large groups that were starting their section walking near Sarria. There is nothing wrong about doing section walking. What was wrong was their uncouth behavior. They were walking slowly, taking photos, posing and monkeying around and all while occupying the whole width of the lane. Hiking through these groups was the equivalent of zig-zagging on the expressway with all the slow drivers growing roots on the left lane.
Indeed, it can be frustrating for those of us walking our Camino in a different way! I'm not sure I would walk that final section from Sarria during a busy period again. I would walk it at a different time of year or walk a different route, if I wanted to avoid the larger groups. Though I have had some success, by adjusting our schedule. For example leaving later in the mornings. Let the groups of school kids and tour groups get a head start on you. That way we've had some very quiet afternoons walking, even on the last 100 kms from Sarria!
Us and the bikes! Sometimes the gaggles of cyclists appeared to be inconsiderate of the walkers. On a wet day in valcare under the motorways i was under my poncho when surprised by a cyclist from behind. After three weeks I was furiously angry. Fortunately I did not voice my angst. I was appalled at my thoughts. It did however show me how far I had come personally sloughing off my previous burdens - a lesson learned.
Oh, don't get me started on bikes! I've been hit 3 times by them.
It's all relative, isn't it? For someone who walks to Santiago from Paris or Krakow, those starting at St Jean might appear to be the "lightweights" or tourists. By the way I saw a wonderful video about a Polish guy who did walk from Krakow, and on arriving to collect his Compostela was told that the previous week someone had arrived who had walked from China!
Indeed, it's all relative. Most people walk 100kms. I think we should respect that. If we want to walk further, that's fine, but it doesn't make us 'better' Pilgrims, just because we walked further does it?
My moment of resentment came when I stopped for coffee and the cafe was full of 30 something women all talking at once, or so it seemed. They were all from Co Cork Ireland and all knew each other, all carrying day packs (mostly not even proper rucksacks (!)) and filling the place with noise. I drank my coffee at the counter and moved on. I met some of them on the road later, at half my age and unencumbered they were faster than me. They were polite but not really interested in talking. They were happy in their bubble, or maybe they were worried about the homeless looking old man. Either way, it took me most of the rest of the day to realise the problem was with me. It's was difficult not to be judgemental and I failed the test. I still think you miss out on a lot travelling in a bubble like that, I travel alone, but that is just my preference.
I'm with you on that John. I much prefer to walk alone. But as you say, if we are bothered somehow by those around us, it's our problem not theirs 🙂
I don't think distance of the Sarria pilgrims is the annoyance factor for longer-distance pilgrims so much as the fact that they make it impossible to find accommodation. My camino this July ended with a 19 km bus ride to Santiago after I'd walked the other 850 km. Bit of a disappointment, but huge groups had booked out every single albergue, private room and hotel within walking radius. Perhaps it's not very spiritual to resent the "tourigrino" for this, but I can't say it's wholly unjustified!
Yes, I can understand the frustrations. I have had my fair share too. THe groups of teens running up and down the corridors late at night etc.
I thought the Us vs the Them's was about the religious pilgrims and the elsewise motivated pilgrims :) If you walk the way you are a one of us, each to his means and possibilities!
Yes, I guess that could be another interpretation of Us and Them, though I never came across that.
Sweet.
Well said.
👇 TIMESTAMPS (in case you want to skip) 👇
00:00 - Intro
00:25 - Real Pilgrims - Us and Them on the Camino de Santiago Phenomena
11:41 - Outro
I started my Camino at Astorga in September of 2016. In the second day I've met two Brazilians, a guy and a girl, and we walked together until Santiago. They started, in different days, at SJPP. The guy struggled his knee and sometimes he took buses, but the girl always walked and always carried her backpack.
When we arrived at Portomarin this girl was SO upset about heat, about albergues, about people, about everything! She had been walking more than 700 km and continued complaining all the time! Is this a "real" pilgrim? Only because she never took a bus or never dispatched backpack? I don't think so... I've met other pilgrims enjoying much more the Camino with or without their backpacks or walking shorter distances. A real pilgrimage is much more interior
We are all Pilgrims. 🙂 Maybe some just get too caught up in the exterior part of the journey.
I recall in my Army days, this was called the FNG syndrome, nothing new in this. Unfortunately in planning my Camino for 2023 my wife's Spanish friends have said they would join us, their idea of walking a Camino was the final 100 km, booking with a tour group, staying in 5 star hotels, dining in 5 Star restaurants and getting luggage forwarded. My plan was the full French way and adopting a minimalist approach (don't mind the 5 star restaurants part). Was hoping to use the trip as a transition to retirement trigger. Will have to compromise perhaps we can adjust to a 5-star lifestyle for the last 100 km as a reward for austerity for the previous 750km?
Sounds like a plan! I don't think I could do a Camino with 5 star all the way somehow. It would feel strange, and not really 'consistent' with the concept of Pilgrimage. I'll use a 3-4 star now and then if it's special, such as a historic building, but other wise just cheap B&B style places. A bed is just a bed after all.
The pilgrims that annoy me are the ones that leave TP everywhere steal fruit from farmers trees and vines and desecrate the sunflowers.
Yes, I would have to agree, that kind of behaviour is rather thoughtless and selfish......
Judge not, lest Ye be judged. If you want solitude, walk in winter with the snow, rain and mud to provide the company. You will still have to think about accommodation. Not because of competition for beds from pilgrims, but many alburges will be closed for winter. As you say, just go. Just go with an open heart. Just walk your own Camino and leave the rest to God. Recognise your willingness to judge others. Perhaps that is what you need to learn. Peace!
Nicely put!
I think it got a bit hairy for the last 100km due to the scarcity of spaces in Albergues at least in mid August when I walked it this year. It is hard not to view it as a cheap holiday for those who do the last 100km but I got over those feelings. But my experience with one Air BNB left a bad taste in my mouth: not only did they mislead us by giving a location right next to the cathedral square and it was instead 2 km back the way we walked in but they hadnt even cleaned the bedroom and bathroom by the time we got there at 6pm, but left us wait for nearly an hour, which meant it was too late to wash clothes. Then, the cost of trying to get out of Santiago in late August by any means possible was prohibitive, I ended up paying 90 euros for a train ride to Madrid (is that the normal price?). The car rentals were running at about 500 euros for a day rental, I kid you not. I was relieved to get the train as it was the last seat.
Sorry to hear of your experiences 😦
I was the guy who wrote about being stuck for hours the next day for the compostella on the camino website. You can probably understand better now why Santiago was such a massive pain in the neck for me at the end of a long but wonderful trip.
@@Speakers154 Ah, then I can fully understand your frustrations and stress with catching flights etc. That must have been a real let down at the end. Though I have to say I find arriving in Santiago is usually a 'let down' in many ways. The journey is over, the routine is finished.... I always make my peace the day before I finish and spend time at Monto de Gozo reflecting, before heading down into Santiago. But Yes, that final day of yours must have been a roller coaster.
@@robscamino But guess what, no surprise, after the dust settled, I still want to go back and do it all again. :)
@@Speakers154 HaHa! That's what it does to you 🙂
FYI, it's also 100 km on horseback, not 200.
Indeed you are correct! Thanks for pointing that out. oficinadelperegrino.com/en/pilgrimage/the-credencial/
Not many of us have the luxury of taking a month off to do the proper Camino nor do we have the physical abilities to complete more than a hundred miles, so please don’t judge. As for myself, I’d be starting from Sarria with a religious pilgrimage group. A priest will be walking with us to say mass everyday of our pilgrimage and available for spiritual direction.
Sounds wonderful Ralph. This was the point of my video, which maybe did not come across? Don't judge. I think I have met more 'true' Pilgrims, whatever that means, who were just walking the last 100 kms,! Buen Camino.
@@robscamino Yes, it did come across. Thank you for that. The "please don't judge" phrase is for the others.
Why can’t one be a hybrid? I think there is merit in that. Not sure of the them and us than both?
My point was, that taking an Us and Them perspective was very wrong. We are neither. We are all Pilgrims of some sort 🙂
@@robscamino My misunderstanding. You’re correct! I gather there are pilgrim purists who frown upon those using a headphone / music at points along the way. I could forgo an iPad but would need some music at times, melodic maybe even Taize.
May I offer ..
A "real pilgrim" is a Catholic who offers the journey for the atonement of sins already forgiven, theirs or of others and goes to pray before the traditional relics (mortal remains) of Saint James, the apostle of Christ, aka Santiago, the patron saint of Spain, and they will not differentiate themselves from any other walker.
Haven't you already differentiated? :-)
I came across this attitude quite a few times. Care factor about how far people walk? Zero. I did a short video at O'Cebreiro on this very topic
I love it when someone joins a Group, and when asked where they started, says something like Warsaw, or Prague! LOL That shuts up all the distance snobs :-)
Ugh! This is going to be a lonely 500 miles!
Why do you think that? 🙂 Have no fear, what I described is NOT the norm. Just something to be aware of. "embrace' the change that is the final 100 kms 🙂
What's missing here is you pointing out that this is your opinion. There are no hard rules, and looking down on touragrinos by those who feel they've earned the right to do so is as valid a viewpoint as yours.
Very true. I am purely expressing an opinion. 😉
To add some perspective, for those who have walked from 'much further out', those final stages can often be a challenge. This was me 150 kms out on our last Camino 'unloading' LOL. I made sure I got over it fast. So we still really enjoyed those final stages. ruclips.net/video/lVInqZQ_cg0/видео.html
There are enough pilgrims on the Camino without promoting fake pilgrims who refuse to carry a pack. The last 100k is peppered with stag parties and people who are there simply to party. Catholic commercialism.
'Fake Pilgrims' partying? Not sure I actually saw any of that in the three times I've walked that section. 🙄 As for 'refusing' to carry a pack, I have chatted with many Pilgrims who were 'only' walking that final 100 kms. Many only carrying a day pack. They all seemed very genuine Pilgrims to me. But for the 'long' walkers who may have walked many hundreds or even thousands of kms already, I understand the change past Sarria can be hard to handle. It was for me the first time, until I realised those starting in Sarria were just as much Pilgrims as I was.
TBH the fresh pilgrims yelling “Buon Camino!!!” at every person they pass from Sarria really did shit me lol I couldn’t stand the crowds and mayhem from that point. A real pilgrim does walk from St Jean. Sorry not sorry.
Ah of course. A real pilgrim starts from St Jean. That is actually a relatively new 'invention' created in the 60s, by Don Elías (1929-1989) who was the parish priest in O Cebreiro. He started painting the yellow arrows, commencing in Roncesvalles I think. 'Real' Pilgrims, traditionally start their Camino from their own front door 🙂
@@robscamino no I get that - was being a little too cute. The tour groups with the umbrellas really did get me. There isn’t a lot of pilgrim spirit in my opinion doing it that way. Noome has to stay in albergues and spent 10 euros a day to be a real pilgrim but I do think they may get more out of the experience
@@shaunminehan but then we need to realise that some don't realise their are other options or many are to scared to branch out and walk on there own from SPDP or further -In relation to being annoyed with the over crowding totally agree but then on the flip side on my Portugal Camino I met no other pilgrim for 5 days - by day 5 I was craving pilgrim interaction and I recall thinking of how ironic this was compared to the Francis where eventually I wanting to walk in silence.
Even St Jean is rather an arbitrary start point. Some say a real pilgrim starts at his nearest St Jean/Sint Jan/St James with a letter from his local priest or from the Bishop of their diocese :) And the classic peregrino has to walk home as well; good discussion topic though!
I agree, St Jean is a modern / popular concept as a start point. Starting from your front door is traditional