Obviously, the course marshals need a bloody good refresh on the rules!!! Keep those bloody spectator craft off the damn course!!! Its not that much to remember!
@@gordonpeden6234 He's not the but team is, I dont know if you remember the thing where he assaulted a camera man on his media boat after a race than swam back to his fin. but in this case he did do the right thing and own it.
PLEASE stop cutting away from the helicopter shots during mark roundings and starts. It is by far the best camera angle to see what's going on, and onboards/shots from powerboats should really only be used in the middle of legs when there is less action.
I agree 100%. I couldn't give two squats about the onboard view unless they're crashing or similar. Editors just can't seem to help themselves when it comes to making another cut every 3 seconds. It boggles my mind when they cut away from 2-3 boats 3 seconds before the get to the mark. It literally makes me scream at the screen. This is sailing, not Dancing with the Stars. Oh, and when 1st and 2nd place are 200+ meters away from each other and everyone behind them, I don't care about them either. Keep the camera focused where the *action* is back in 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.
In normal yacht racing there was a thing called YMP. It seems silly that you can get taken out for a race and not get average points because of an illegal act. Japan should have got average points for race 3 and they would have made it easily into the final. I wonder why there is no YMP. In a state titles in an interantional class I sailed I was take out by my closest competitor. He was at fault and even though we eventually cleared away the carnage and sailed the race, we were awarded average points. Sailing usually doesn't allow being taken out by other competitors.
@@petemiller519 I didn't know that as well, a lady pointed it out to me. It appears Ainslie has a history of anger management issues. But according to sailGP rules: The sailGP Event Authority can: "Substitute or allocate like for like equipment to enable the team with damage to race." So team UK were disqualified, (they were not going anywhere) So they "Volunteered" their boat, or it would be "Volunteered" for them.
How was this different then when Japan took out USA earlier in the season and USA was penalized as much as Japan for failing to keep clear never mind didn’t get to use the Japanese boat?
@@fredbarnes196 Eh! I've no idea, why don't you ask sailGP?? Did the USA team post a protest?? How the hell would I know? (I do know that the skipper of the Japanese boat is an Aussie. And he always calls foul and protests everything) I'm just stating what sailGP rules state. Don't shoot the messenger. Have a great day. 😀 Fun fact: The Skipper of sailGP USA is also an Aussie.
This racing is so incredible and exciting but I do think that each boat representing a country should have at the very least a skipper from that country. At best a full crew from the representative country. At the moment it is just about Aussies or Kiwis against each other!
Nah! Only the Kiwis and Aussie teams would win. (Seriously) Give them a chance to learn and within 3 or 4 years It will be that each country will field their own skippers. In the meantime enjoy the spectacle.
So, a final without what was clearly the fastest crew. The SalGP rules need to be rethought as the Japan boat only failed to gain enough points to be in the three boat final because it was destroyed by another competitor that lost control/broke the rules/both. The rules should give the Japan boat average point for the race it couldn't complete. Not to have Japan in the final makes a mockery of the series and a hollow victory for the 'winner'.
Certainly agree any boat should be able to at the least seek redress if disadvantaged like we saw with Team JPN. As you say average points would seem fair as on performance they were the team to beat.
I could see this argued either way. Average points could very well have proven to be more points than if they had actually sailed the whole course. it also would have been more points than the bottom half boats who successfully sailed and finished the course - something that is never a guarantee, even when no incursions occur. Maybe some medium between these two lines of thought? Points at %50 of average, eg? Does seem like a conundrum to resolve fairly. But at least as it is now...it really makes staying out of trouble a priority. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the danger of these boats. (which would cut down on their competitiveness. argh. conundrum for sure IMO)
@@oceannesailor yes average points might give a boat more points than if they actually raced, but they might have also won the race. But certainly would be fairer than no points at all when they were consistently fast and looking on the money for another great start. But certainly needs looking at. 😁👍
@@billster0007 yeah...interesting. Maybe award them something that's close to, or a little less than, the average of their other performances over the day, or weekend? Definitely agreed though: worth looking at, and probably really worth consulting - or seeking the approval of - all the teams regarding a rule upgrade
@@oceannesailor In the Racing Rules of Sailng that most events are run under, there's a rule (Rule 62) that says "A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score or place in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by injury or physical damage because of the action of a boat that was breaking a rule of Part 2 and took an appropriate penalty or was penalized..." The breaking of a rule of Part 2 (GBR was clearly at fault) and the physical damage leading to a "score in a race that has been or may be made significantly worse" under these rules is clear cause for a request for redress. The Appendix on Scoring (A9) suggests the following: GUIDANCE ON REDRESS If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boat’s score for a race, it is advised to consider scoring her (a) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races in the series except the race in question; (b) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races before the race in question; or (c) points based on the position of the boat in the race at the time of the incident that justified redress. SailGP has a modified set of rules, but the guidelines for redress work for the rest of the sport.
so many interesting things in this weekend. Amazing that Japan fought back and got two wins on day 2, and so sorry they didn't make the cut due to yesterday's DNS. Really sorry for the British team too - even if they were at fault. And while I couldn't ascertain whether or not it was "mandatory" (per some rules) that Britain lend their boat to Japan...sounded like Ben's and GBR's hearts were in it either way, so absolutely bravo to them. (gotta be super, super painful for them). And finally.... (and I hope we hear more about this in the future) how interesting to hear how Nathan candidly quipped about how fast the British boat felt to him after two wins. Could there be something to it? Different maintenance practices or standards? (or are the maintenence personnel and practices standard across all teams?) I trust the tech folks will have fun pouring over the numbers to see if Japan performed better on GBR's boat than they think they might have on their own.
GBR loaned Japan their boat? Wow....also thought the final was a poor representation of the overall performers in this regatta, but then I'm biased. Still don't like the format with 8 boats crowded together for each race. This leads to events like the Brits colliding with the Japanese. IMO they should make it 4 boats max, have twice the number of races and make a whole day of it. To me the whole thing seems a bit rushed and overly contrived....but I do love watching it, these boats are awesome at full clip...SailGP, it's basically Australia vs NZ ;o)
@@sirfer6969 yeah....contrived for short-attention span, advertisement-laden TV. I suspect even the crowded nature of it is intentional, with organizers banking on the idea that a general public likes to see near-misses and/or crashes. I like to watch too, though. So I"m guilty. But I get pretty anxious for everyone's well-being when the wind is really high. As long as no one gets hurt.......
Sydney did film onf Tv, the 16footer sailing Has been no film since Olympics I looked for filming on free TV 0n 18/12 21 Nothing A very important race 0f Thougherbred exciting racing Thank you all Rob K
What people critisize about the recent f1 actions is standard in sailgp. Ignore previous performance, winner takes it all in a final shot. Hope it will change in the future.
It's lucky i'm watching a recording of this video as i would have no chance understanding the graphical explanation of the forces on a F50 that whizzed through later in the vid. Note to SailGP; any time you are going to "explain" something technical, give it more time.
My question precisely. Since they missed the race to no fault of their own, and due to a clear and egregious foul by GBR, it seems like they should have been entitled to redress. If that isn't in the rules governing SailGP, they may want to look at that going forward. After all, they did win 3 of the 4 races in which they raced, they missed one due to the crash, yet they still didn't rate as one of the top 3 going into the finale. Shouldn't the goal be to have the top boats in the finale?
The commentators said that GB were forced by the rules to hand their boat to Japan. But then Ainslie seemed to be accepting credit for a generous gesture. Which was it? Overall, the commentary team do a rubbish job of relating the ACTUAL rules and explaining what is ACTUALLY going on!
4 consecutive Olympic golds, and a bronze as a teenager, is a most impressive stake to that claim. Goats are always up for debate but you cannae deny the guy’s a Great. He just fucked up.
@@mathewhale3581 he just f#d up again..Bermuda AC Spain GP And Sydney he wasn't looking. No one us disputing he's one of the best going around ,what he lacks in versatility and flexibility in development classes like AC he makes up for in skill and competitive instinct..but greatest of all time? It's not his fault ..its SailGP who screams this rubbish. Slingsby just won the world Moths ( 1st in EVERY race!) The Middle Sea Race, 3rd(?) in the maxis in the Med...all in between the GP circus regattas. AC wins ,Sydney/ Hobart Olympic Gold....he never gets a mention just plays his promo role for GP. A much better all round CV for world's best sailor but he's not going to let the sycophants say it. All class
A great sport, and a great idea to have competitive yacht racing in this style - but the presentation really needs work. To the commentators; stop shouting endlessly...all the time. Please. To the camera directors; actually follow the race. We don't give a shit about the 3rd place boat crossing the line by itself and the crew member slapping each other on the back, etc. You can show that....whenever you want, but maybe, consider actually cutting back to the boats which are still racing for a spot in the final. Also - regardless of the "excitement" of the damage to the boats yesterday - why the flying hell did you need to do interviews DURING the race? You have a massively lengthy 2 hours per day to fill with nonsense like that. The boats are out - we get it, now move on and follow the actual boats which are racing. The overall presentation of this stuff is really really poor.
the camera work is so pi$$ poor!! In the 2nd race, there is a crucial tack to the final windward mark. Instead of panning to AUS and NZL the twat camera guys zoom in on to JPN rounding the mark on a massive leed. Please find some people to manage the footage that now what parts of the race are important and what not!
Utterly agree. Happens so often that every time it looks like a close cross or mark rounding of boats other than the leader, I know it’ll cut to a pointless shot of another boat with no one near it! I don’t think the director of this has ever raced a boat. Don’t get me started on Stevie Morrisons incessant ramblings!!
Funny old rules in SailGP. NZL finished with a penalty and was downgraded one place. The two behind were so close that if NZL had slowed down before the finish to clear their penalty they might have been rolled by one or more of the following boats. Thus, a different outcome for the final I think?
The rule was that they had to get behind JPN, and the penalty applied that. There are always things to be aware of. In the next race DEN squashed NZL to the boundary and gained a penalty for it, but if they hadn't made the illegal move NZL would have been completely clear of ESP at the next mark. Racing Is Racing Mate.
What are the SailGP rules when it comes to sailing proper course? That first race where NZL got penalized looked like Japan was sailing WAY higher then the start line to gain that penalty. Is that not a rule in SailGP? How high can they luff in that situation?
@@adventuresinpassiveincome3766 You are right - you may note that I did not question the application of the SailGP rules which I have not read. I assumed that they were applied as written but questioned how fair this rule is.
43:00 - 1 min to Race 4 start
1:08:00 - 1 min to Race 5 start
Thank you!
First time I've watched/ heard of this class of sailing. WOW!! Brilliant.
This is really exiting!. Sorry for Japan and Great Britain, wishing all (ALL!!) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2022!.
thanks, Eduardo! same to you!!!
I had never see salings boats so fast , I fell in love with this race .
Outstanding sportsmanship. Hold a fast boys!
I think next Season Kiwis will be in the game hard. They had on and off for the Olympics, but they look a lot better now.
As a dyed in the wool Kiwi of some 50+ years, it would be nice if they didn't choke, esp after the amazing start in race 4.
Obviously, the course marshals need a bloody good refresh on the rules!!! Keep those bloody spectator craft off the damn course!!! Its not that much to remember!
I've never had a high option of Ben from some old outbursts but this for sure helps change my mind, good on you GBR is the right thing to do.
@@gordonpeden6234 He's not the but team is, I dont know if you remember the thing where he assaulted a camera man on his media boat after a race than swam back to his fin. but in this case he did do the right thing and own it.
@@onnayoung7699 I didn't know that. Thanks have a Happy Healthy New year.
@@gordonpeden6234 you too hun. My your new year be clam sea and west winds.
PLEASE stop cutting away from the helicopter shots during mark roundings and starts. It is by far the best camera angle to see what's going on, and onboards/shots from powerboats should really only be used in the middle of legs when there is less action.
Fully agree!
Yes, camera work needs a lot of improvement
I agree 100%. I couldn't give two squats about the onboard view unless they're crashing or similar. Editors just can't seem to help themselves when it comes to making another cut every 3 seconds. It boggles my mind when they cut away from 2-3 boats 3 seconds before the get to the mark. It literally makes me scream at the screen. This is sailing, not Dancing with the Stars. Oh, and when 1st and 2nd place are 200+ meters away from each other and everyone behind them, I don't care about them either. Keep the camera focused where the *action* is back in 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.
Speak for yourself, I love those occasional onboard shots of the mark roundings.
In normal yacht racing there was a thing called YMP. It seems silly that you can get taken out for a race and not get average points because of an illegal act. Japan should have got average points for race 3 and they would have made it easily into the final. I wonder why there is no YMP. In a state titles in an interantional class I sailed I was take out by my closest competitor. He was at fault and even though we eventually cleared away the carnage and sailed the race, we were awarded average points. Sailing usually doesn't allow being taken out by other competitors.
Kudos to Ainsley. Offering his boat to the Japanese gains a lot of respect in my book. Cheers.
He didn't Offer anything, The rules say he has to forfeit his boat.
@@gordonpeden6234 I didn't know that. Thanks for setting it straight.
@@petemiller519 I didn't know that as well, a lady pointed it out to me. It appears Ainslie has a history of anger management issues.
But according to sailGP rules: The sailGP Event Authority can: "Substitute or allocate like for like equipment to enable the team with damage to race." So team UK were disqualified, (they were not going anywhere) So they "Volunteered" their boat, or it would be "Volunteered" for them.
How was this different then when Japan took out USA earlier in the season and USA was penalized as much as Japan for failing to keep clear never mind didn’t get to use the Japanese boat?
@@fredbarnes196 Eh! I've no idea, why don't you ask sailGP?? Did the USA team post a protest?? How the hell would I know? (I do know that the skipper of the Japanese boat is an Aussie. And he always calls foul and protests everything) I'm just stating what sailGP rules state. Don't shoot the messenger. Have a great day. 😀 Fun fact: The Skipper of sailGP USA is also an Aussie.
Stop saying knots are 'old money! KPH has NO PLACE in sailing, and I don't care if you want to appeal to the masses!
Completely agree! Infuriating!
👍 Totally agree, "Let's dumb it down for anyone who can't relate to sea - or air - craft!" Pathetic.
At the very least, display Kts with (kmph) aside so viewers of all stripes can learn what's going on!
This racing is so incredible and exciting but I do think that each boat representing a country should have at the very least a skipper from that country. At best a full crew from the representative country. At the moment it is just about Aussies or Kiwis against each other!
Nah! Only the Kiwis and Aussie teams would win. (Seriously) Give them a chance to learn and within 3 or 4 years It will be that each country will field their own skippers. In the meantime enjoy the spectacle.
So, a final without what was clearly the fastest crew. The SalGP rules need to be rethought as the Japan boat only failed to gain enough points to be in the three boat final because it was destroyed by another competitor that lost control/broke the rules/both. The rules should give the Japan boat average point for the race it couldn't complete. Not to have Japan in the final makes a mockery of the series and a hollow victory for the 'winner'.
Certainly agree any boat should be able to at the least seek redress if disadvantaged like we saw with Team JPN. As you say average points would seem fair as on performance they were the team to beat.
I could see this argued either way. Average points could very well have proven to be more points than if they had actually sailed the whole course. it also would have been more points than the bottom half boats who successfully sailed and finished the course - something that is never a guarantee, even when no incursions occur. Maybe some medium between these two lines of thought? Points at %50 of average, eg? Does seem like a conundrum to resolve fairly. But at least as it is now...it really makes staying out of trouble a priority. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the danger of these boats. (which would cut down on their competitiveness. argh. conundrum for sure IMO)
@@oceannesailor yes average points might give a boat more points than if they actually raced, but they might have also won the race. But certainly would be fairer than no points at all when they were consistently fast and looking on the money for another great start. But certainly needs looking at. 😁👍
@@billster0007 yeah...interesting. Maybe award them something that's close to, or a little less than, the average of their other performances over the day, or weekend? Definitely agreed though: worth looking at, and probably really worth consulting - or seeking the approval of - all the teams regarding a rule upgrade
@@oceannesailor In the Racing Rules of Sailng that most events are run under, there's a rule (Rule 62) that says
"A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score or place in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by injury or physical damage because of the action of a boat that was breaking a rule of Part 2 and took an appropriate penalty or was penalized..."
The breaking of a rule of Part 2 (GBR was clearly at fault) and the physical damage leading to a "score in a race that has been or may be made significantly worse" under these rules is clear cause for a request for redress.
The Appendix on Scoring (A9) suggests the following:
GUIDANCE ON REDRESS
If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boat’s score for a race, it is advised to consider scoring her
(a) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races in the series except the race in question;
(b) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races before the race in question; or
(c) points based on the position of the boat in the race at the time of the incident that justified redress.
SailGP has a modified set of rules, but the guidelines for redress work for the rest of the sport.
Just love it!
so many interesting things in this weekend. Amazing that Japan fought back and got two wins on day 2, and so sorry they didn't make the cut due to yesterday's DNS. Really sorry for the British team too - even if they were at fault. And while I couldn't ascertain whether or not it was "mandatory" (per some rules) that Britain lend their boat to Japan...sounded like Ben's and GBR's hearts were in it either way, so absolutely bravo to them. (gotta be super, super painful for them). And finally.... (and I hope we hear more about this in the future) how interesting to hear how Nathan candidly quipped about how fast the British boat felt to him after two wins. Could there be something to it? Different maintenance practices or standards? (or are the maintenence personnel and practices standard across all teams?) I trust the tech folks will have fun pouring over the numbers to see if Japan performed better on GBR's boat than they think they might have on their own.
GBR loaned Japan their boat? Wow....also thought the final was a poor representation of the overall performers in this regatta, but then I'm biased.
Still don't like the format with 8 boats crowded together for each race. This leads to events like the Brits colliding with the Japanese.
IMO they should make it 4 boats max, have twice the number of races and make a whole day of it. To me the whole thing seems a bit rushed and overly contrived....but I do love watching it, these boats are awesome at full clip...SailGP, it's basically Australia vs NZ ;o)
@@sirfer6969 yeah....contrived for short-attention span, advertisement-laden TV. I suspect even the crowded nature of it is intentional, with organizers banking on the idea that a general public likes to see near-misses and/or crashes. I like to watch too, though. So I"m guilty. But I get pretty anxious for everyone's well-being when the wind is really high. As long as no one gets hurt.......
Sydney did film onf Tv, the 16footer sailing Has been no film since Olympics I looked for filming on free TV 0n 18/12 21 Nothing A very important race 0f Thougherbred exciting racing Thank you all Rob K
Go the Frankenboat!
What people critisize about the recent f1 actions is standard in sailgp. Ignore previous performance, winner takes it all in a final shot. Hope it will change in the future.
But one sailor on the wrong sails? Umm, no it's not the same at all.
It's lucky i'm watching a recording of this video as i would have no chance understanding the graphical explanation of the forces on a F50 that whizzed through later in the vid.
Note to SailGP; any time you are going to "explain" something technical, give it more time.
There should've been redress for Japan and in the final. the other teams simply weren't as fast or as good as them.. change the rules
Yeah...same thought. In normal racing they'd be entitled to redress, no?
@@HughSheehy Agreed. IMO the whole format needs an overhaul.
Why did Japan not get average points for race 3? Was there no provision in rules? If not, why not?
My question precisely. Since they missed the race to no fault of their own, and due to a clear and egregious foul by GBR, it seems like they should have been entitled to redress. If that isn't in the rules governing SailGP, they may want to look at that going forward. After all, they did win 3 of the 4 races in which they raced, they missed one due to the crash, yet they still didn't rate as one of the top 3 going into the finale. Shouldn't the goal be to have the top boats in the finale?
Exactly! Most fleets now have redress. This case is the strongest I have seen!
The commentators said that GB were forced by the rules to hand their boat to Japan. But then Ainslie seemed to be accepting credit for a generous gesture. Which was it? Overall, the commentary team do a rubbish job of relating the ACTUAL rules and explaining what is ACTUALLY going on!
Well done USA
Going to be some questions asked in the GBR camp, after seeing what the Japanese did with their boat...
Simple answer: They took an English "Aristocrat" off the boat. And let an Aussie (Criminal class) Skipper it.??
What happened with the mark 6
This does NOT make you the world's best sailor.These guys really need to give the hype a rest.Its getting embarrassing
World's best sailor = America's Cup victor
Who’s running this show?!
Thus time yesterday they were saying again and again that Ainslie was the greatest sailor of all time!
What happened?
Why do they say this nonsense?
4 consecutive Olympic golds, and a bronze as a teenager, is a most impressive stake to that claim. Goats are always up for debate but you cannae deny the guy’s a Great. He just fucked up.
@@mathewhale3581 he just f#d up again..Bermuda AC
Spain GP
And Sydney he wasn't looking.
No one us disputing he's one of the best going around ,what he lacks in versatility and flexibility in development classes like AC he makes up for in skill and competitive instinct..but greatest of all time?
It's not his fault ..its SailGP who screams this rubbish.
Slingsby just won the world Moths ( 1st in EVERY race!) The Middle Sea Race, 3rd(?) in the maxis in the Med...all in between the GP circus regattas.
AC wins ,Sydney/ Hobart Olympic Gold....he never gets a mention just plays his promo role for GP.
A much better all round CV for world's best sailor but he's not going to let the sycophants say it.
All class
A great sport, and a great idea to have competitive yacht racing in this style - but the presentation really needs work. To the commentators; stop shouting endlessly...all the time. Please. To the camera directors; actually follow the race. We don't give a shit about the 3rd place boat crossing the line by itself and the crew member slapping each other on the back, etc. You can show that....whenever you want, but maybe, consider actually cutting back to the boats which are still racing for a spot in the final. Also - regardless of the "excitement" of the damage to the boats yesterday - why the flying hell did you need to do interviews DURING the race? You have a massively lengthy 2 hours per day to fill with nonsense like that. The boats are out - we get it, now move on and follow the actual boats which are racing. The overall presentation of this stuff is really really poor.
another stupid close up of grinders - while we miss all the action
the camera work is so pi$$ poor!! In the 2nd race, there is a crucial tack to the final windward mark. Instead of panning to AUS and NZL the twat camera guys zoom in on to JPN rounding the mark on a massive leed. Please find some people to manage the footage that now what parts of the race are important and what not!
Utterly agree. Happens so often that every time it looks like a close cross or mark rounding of boats other than the leader, I know it’ll cut to a pointless shot of another boat with no one near it! I don’t think the director of this has ever raced a boat.
Don’t get me started on Stevie Morrisons incessant ramblings!!
Yes totally agree
Classic Kiwi choke at the end of race 4 ....=(
Funny old rules in SailGP. NZL finished with a penalty and was downgraded one place. The two behind were so close that if NZL had slowed down before the finish to clear their penalty they might have been rolled by one or more of the following boats. Thus, a different outcome for the final I think?
The rule was that they had to get behind JPN, and the penalty applied that. There are always things to be aware of. In the next race DEN squashed NZL to the boundary and gained a penalty for it, but if they hadn't made the illegal move NZL would have been completely clear of ESP at the next mark. Racing Is Racing Mate.
@@adventuresinpassiveincome3766 Precisely - and when exactly did they get behind JPN?
What are the SailGP rules when it comes to sailing proper course? That first race where NZL got penalized looked like Japan was sailing WAY higher then the start line to gain that penalty. Is that not a rule in SailGP? How high can they luff in that situation?
@@brianlambert4685 By applying the rules. Nothing controversial about what happened there.
@@adventuresinpassiveincome3766 You are right - you may note that I did not question the application of the SailGP rules which I have not read. I assumed that they were applied as written but questioned how fair this rule is.
Ipeeinurmous
Bad management of the Judge
Commentators do a good job. Video direction is infuriating
Just another video game. Got nothing to do with sailing.