Marty: "You built a time machine... out of a bird of prey?" Doc: "The way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine, why not do it with some style!"
@@chad8767 While I actually like Lower Decks, OP said "films." I assume they were talking about JJ Abrams films, unless there's some other films out I haven't heard of :P As for the shows, my two cents: The shows are kind of hit-or-miss - LD is fun and I like it when a franchise is willing to go out on a limb and poke fun at itself, Discovery is... Discovery, and Picard has an interesting premise, intersting plot points, my favourite author Michael Chabon is involved, and it's... Fine? I guess? The plot feels so supremely rushed though, and it's got some big misteps. Picard feels middling, like "better than enterprise, about the same as voyager on a good day, nowhere near the heights of DS9, TNG, or TOS."
Modern Star Trek films could have potentially been as such... if we didn't prop Wrath of Khan up so high up as some kind of Star Trek excellence. While it is true, Wrath of Khan is a great FILM,... its not a great "Trek",... and because of this, short-sighted Hollywood Studio Execs, always looking for the most return for the least effort, immediately latch onto "Bad guy out for revenge"... and that is what we got... with virtually every single Star Trek film since 1991. Bad guy - battle - revenge - quoting literature. Rinse - lather - repeat. As for the quip about modern Star Trek films,... I still rank all three Abrams films over every TNG film, except First Contact, which I rank between Beyond and 2009. The last time we had gotten a legitimately good Star Trek film before then was Undiscovered Country, and even that one was full of contrivances, plot holes, and bogus setting structure. (Exactly how did the shock wave of Praxis exploding reach the Excelsior while it was outside Klingon space?) 2009 definitely had more heart than any film of the TNG era, especially when it came to other characters. Every TNG film was just "The Picard and Data Show" Beyond went a step further, not only with the Enterprise crew, but the message that Humanity's strength is its warmth rather than requiring some kind of conflict in order to be strong. It was the whole message of the film. Plus tying in a bit of Enterprise was nice as well. Its just too bad that Paramount did such a piss poor job promoting the film, you'd think they were deliberately trying to sabotage it
Here is a bonus thought: In Next Generation, it is established they have found a way to greatly increase the lifespan of dilitium crystals. This is probably the progression of the technique Spock and Scotty had to make up on the spot to squeeze a bit more energy out of their crystals.
@@paulheap1982 he is producing really bad content, so of course we don't like it. His product is so bad that it makes it seem like he in fact hates Trek, even if it is simple incompetence.
@@jamiebraswell5520 It seems malice and genuine hatred are involved here. Not just hatred for the franchise and the themes, storyline, general philosophy and characters, but also an unexplained contempt for the loyal fans of the original. Kurtzman is cancer thriving in a carcinogenic ecology where others like him thrive. Sadly, Trek is no more.
Chuck's closing lines: "Seeing them return to the Enterprise is saying the long odyssey is over, we've come home. Look, your seat is right where you left it. Buckle in, because we about to go where no one has gone before." Me: "...to Star Trek 5."
This movie was my first introduction to Star Trek. The scene of Sarek and the Klingon Ambassador sold me to the franchise: Sarek: Your vessel did destroy U.S.S. Grissom. Your men did kill Kirk's son. Do you deny these events? Klingon Ambassador: We deny nothing! We have the right to preserve our race! Sarek: You have the right to commit murder? Klingon Ambassador: (surprised Pikachu face)
@@All2Meme I think the Klingon Ambassador was hammering his case on the "outrage" of Genesis being a Federation WMD when just those few words Sarek not on refuted it but slam dunked that while the Klingons would declare and likely use Genesis as a WMD the Federation would not. That leading to the Klingon Ambassador's surprised Pikachu face at him being diplomatically checkmated by Chad Federation Ambassador Sarek in less than 10 moves.
@@Lasershadow I was going to make a joke about the "Virgin Klingon Ambassador [x]" vs etc, but... Damn, does this guy even have a name? Is he that low-tier next to Chadbassador Sarek? Whoof.
@@Descanlin His name is Kamarag on Memory Alpha and he is low tier I guess since his article is at the top of Unnamed Klingons (23rd Century). IMO he really was looking low tier standing opposed to Sarek and I think he knew it the moment Sarek challenged him.
Voyage Home was my introduction as well. The VHS tape that had the teaser trailer for Next Generation at the beginning, complete with incomplete warp effect, and a confusing shot where hand phasers were being used as handheld tractor beams or something LOL.
I saw these movies when they were released in theaters and you'd think by now there's nothing more to say, but that was a rapt and insightful retrospective and now something's in my eye. Thank you for doing justice to this gem that as you say just couldn't have been contrived or replicated. It's especially satisfying now to see how Leonard Nimoy was able to deliver what he really wanted for the characters and franchise. Even with the humor and convoluted storyline, nothing is wasted. "Please tell mother, 'I feel fine.'"
It is mine as well. It was seven-year-old Me's very first introduction to Star Trek, and I feel it was the perfect introduction to have. I really thing that if I was shown Wrath of Khan instead, I wouldn't have become so instantly attached to the franchise. I wouldn't have wanted to watch the new Next Generation show on TV, or go see Final Frontier in the theater. I wouldn't have binge watched every previous film (interestingly all in reverse order), and I wouldn't have become the life-long Trekkie I am. Voyage Home is, in my estimation, the PERFECT "Star Trek" film. Wrath of Khan may be the better "Movie"... but Voyage Home was the better "Star Trek".
@@k1productions87 I had some exposure to TOS reruns and maybe the first three films on TV but this was the first Trek film I saw in theatres and it set up a lifelong fandom.
@@digitaljanus Oh boy I wish I could have seen this in the theaters. But I was only 5 or 6 at the time. I think I needed that one extra year, and the home setting, and the fun TNG teaser trailer on the VHS. It was the perfect storm for my growing brain :P
5:45 : I LOVED John Schuck's performance as the Klingon Ambassador in this scene! He was really giving a 'Shakespearean' level performance, so much so that by the end of it I was feeling a little "You know, he just might have a point after all" ^_^ 13:00 : Holy crap! I had never known about this, after all these years. Well, at least I saved me a couple of bucks by waiting so long ^_^
Yes Corundum is transparent aluminum, but it is a crystal not a glass. I always got the impression from the film that Scotty's "invention" was a glass... but I could be wrong.
Voyage Home feels like the other side of Search for Spock. I think both are reminiscent of TOS, but the former being the more lighthearted romp that the Original Series often did while also still keeping the stakes relatively important. it feels fitting that the Star Trek show that often did the best comedy in the franchise's history manages the most effective humor in ST's movie history. Even though the farcical elements in TVH lean on being a bit too wacky at times, it still feels like a world of difference between this and the attempts at Insurrection or 09.
The scene is _Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home_ where Uhura and Chevok stop a female passer-by who answers _Uh, I don't know if I know the answer to that, I think it's across the bay in Alameda_ was ad-libbed by Layla Sarakalo an uncredited extra, who was told to act natural and agreed to it to make some money. Usually, extras have no lines, but the production crew liked it so much that they had to track her down to get her to sign a contract in order to keep the scene in the movie.
The novelization gives the “thoughts” of the probe and it knows exactly what it is doing and does not care. It also gives a translation of the “conversation.”
As many times as I've seen the Star Trek movies I still get confused sometimes between Vger and the whale probe. I sometimes think they are one and the same before remembering they were two different movies.
The freeze-frame of Sulu in the chopper. 14:42 just cracked me up. But the line that floored me was when the narrator says that "no whale has ever directed Star Trek 5." Pity. It might have been a lot better. A huge thank-you for producing and posting these reviews. They reminded me of why I love these films so much. Live long and prosper.
One of the best things about this film, was the decision to resurrect the Constitution class in all of her glory! You can’t improve upon perfection. 🖖😀
Damn it, now I want to see the movie where Kirk writes a letter in the past to try and save His son's life in the future, but Krug intercepts it and lives ala BttF style.
It should be noted that although there was no villain in this movie, there was an antagonist (which was the probe). Even though it had no malicious intent, it was still a threat to the heroes and needed to be dealt with.
I love this movie. While not the best of them in my book, it's certainly the top 3. It also carries with it one of the long running and beloved gags, now witnessed for truth: " _We have evolved a bit in our medical science, we no longer use leeches or bloodletting._ "
It's amazing how much medical science has progressed so far in the years since Star Trek IV came out, and we're still over 200 years away from the TOS era.
I've recently learned that there was a dropped plot point of Saavik having David's son. I suspect there was a larger part for Saavik originally, but Bennett kept her in the film anyways as at least a cameo.
Not having the conversation between the whales and the probe also allowed Chuck to add in his own subtitle gag in the original review, so that's another good reason not to translate it in the film. :)
I'm normally not a fan of the fans incessant need to tie everything in the trek universe together (like how every vaguely robotic character or plot device must be related to the Borg) but its my head canon tat te whale probe is related to the doomsday device, that the doomsday device originally resembled the whale probe but with its planet destroying orifice instead of the sphere. It was originally a cylinder of neutron star matter that has been consuming its self over the ages as it drifts around trying to complete its mission. The whale probe in my canon is made by the same people but instead its mission is to travel the galaxy checking on te various worlds and inhabitants who were effected in their catastrophic war. Both objects are old and barely functioning as intended, the whale probe maintains an almost perfect shape because its not just destroying planet after planet.
I prefer entities to be separate, in all honesty. The galaxy is far more huge than we can wrap our head around, and the universe beyond is infinite with other galaxies abounding. I mean, there is room within this galaxy alone for the V'Ger cloud of 82 AUs ( as it was in the theatrical cut) to travel without hitting anything. I hate the idea of linking these things, no offense intended. Trelane does not need to be a member of the Q Continuum. The God imposter does not need to have been imprisoned behind the Great Barrier by Q. The Borg did not have to originate with V'ger. And last but not least, the Doomsday Machine does not need to be created by the same race that made the Whale Probe. I feel that these types of connective ideas makes the galaxy and beyond way too small. ;-)
We get this gorgeous new ship with a gorgeous new bridge,... and the first thing they do in the next film is piss all over it. Now,... I DO love the layout of the Final Frontier bridge (just replace the beige carpeting with grey), particularly the animated screens rather than static displays. But the ship herself is totally disrespected, even moreso than the rest of the bridge crew.
@@k1productions87 The Star Trek VI bridge is better, but yeah. The set designers created an amazing bridge for Star Trek V for the script to shit over.
@@Xondar11223344 I don't agree. I prefer the layout of the Final Frontier bridge, and how all the controls are Okduagrams, rather than physical buttons, switches and knobs. Also the Final Frontier consoles are more prominently blues than greens. Also, Undiscoverd Country makes no effort at all in blending the animated screens with the static backlit ones. The screens stand out so brightly while the backlit are darker tot he point where it seemed purposeful. The Final Frontier at least makes the backlit plexis look the same brightness as the actual screens. The one advantage Undiscovered's bridge had was the grey chair padding as opposed to the beige. If only Final Frontier's bridge had that chair padding, and that color for the carpeting. What I don't like though is the metal grated floor of Undiscovered, the previously mentioned physical switches and knobs, the blatant and obvious clocks, nor do I like moving the turbolifts to the sides rather than aft. It makes the Captain have to turn far more to speak to Sciences and Communications as they are both now behind him. Also the new wing panels on both consoles are not actually trained forward. One would theorize the point of those wing extensions was to allow those officers to face toward the viewscreen,... but they still have to turn their head quite a bit. If the consoles were in their original Final Frontier position, looking at the viewscreen would have been far more comfortable. I think the only reason for moving the consoles that way was to have that ending "here are all the characters" shot at the end. Literally no other purpose for it.
@@k1productions87 One reason I like the TUC bridge is exactly a lot of the things you mentioned. I love the metal grated floor, and I hate carpeted floor on the bridge. I love the physical switches and knobs. I like how they're integrated with the okudagrams since both are workable controls. I love the red they chose as accents to the bridge, and I think it contrasts beautifully with the blue they chose for the Excelsior bridge. It's much better than the cream colour they used in Star Trek V anyway.
@@Xondar11223344 Carpeted floor would look better if it was a simple solid grey instead of the beige, I feel. Perhaps its not so much having the physical switches, but with how they absolutely dominate everything else. Virtually all the Okudagrams on the Helm/Nav panel are so dark and subdued, they are practically non-existent. If the touch displays were brighter and stood out more, the physical switches wouldn't be so off-putting Yes, I do love the red accents on the console padding as well as the blue on the Excelsior. Both work great, as opposed to the previously mentioned beige. So take the either red or blue padding and grey instead of beige and apply that to the Final Frontier layout, and it would improve that version so much. And for the love of God, have the animated displays and the static ones be the same brightness so it doesn't look so cheap.
The Klingons were a stand-in for the Soviets, whom we now know cut corners with their military designs. The earlier Soviet Nuclear Submarines have been called "floating cancer factories". Federation ships did the time travel slingshot maneuver without losing their crystals; the Klingon ship doesn't. Coincidence?!
5:47 I love how this line manages to low-key set up the plot (and even the ending) of Star Trek 6 at a time when there was absolutely no plan for there to even be a Star Trek 6. If you could get part 5 out of the way, parts 2, 3, 4 and 6 would almost seem like they were a planned quadrilogy thanks to little touches (and/or happy accidents) like that. _Almost._ The whole "Let's all go on new adventures!" tone at the end of part 4 wouldn't lead very well into the "Let's all get ready for retirement" tone at the beginning of part 6. But in terms of relevant set-ups and payoffs, and one development logically leading to another.
You know I never considered it but perhaps the best test of a Star Trek series is if you believe that the crew would be able to sit down and have a dinner party and behave like family and not like co-workers. Original Crew? Oh yes. TNG? Most certainly. DS9? Yeah though Odo would think Quark was going to steal the silverware. Voyager? ...eh. Maybe. They'd be able to eat like co-workers, break off into little groups, but I don't see them having a spirited and fun dinner all together. Enterprise? ...bwahahahahaha no! Discovery? Well, I suppose Michal just sitting alone in a room, telling the rest of the crew to wait till she was done eating then they could get the scraps... Picard? ...no, not really.
On the whole idea that Whales are aliens, one thing chuck doesn't consider is that while Whales lack appendages for tool use, they could have evolved to possess psychic abilities, both telekinetic as well as telepathic. After all, it's not like the probe could actually hear the whale songs from up in orbit so they were communicating by some other means. So I could see cetacean creatures evolving and using their abilities to construct technology.
(paraphrased)"In the commentary Shatner says that it's possible that whales are smarter than humans... But I suppose it could be argued that a whale never directed Star Trek V" Ha! I laughed out loud at that one 😂
McCoy: C'mon Spock, it's me - McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like? Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference. McCoy: You're joking. Spock: A joke . . . is a story with a humorous climax? McCoy: You mean I have to DIE to discuss your insights on death? What do you want me to do, go to a shore leave planet where everything you imagine becomes real and get killed by a lancing knight or something? Sheesh, I should have just asked Scotty what it was like before he was resurrected by NOMAD.
I'm glad the original vids R back, but these YT friendly summaries R pretty good, too. I really hope he does this treatment for Dr Who, The Macra Terror, as the BBC killed his updated review of that serial.
@@Ridgwaycer Semantics maybe, but Chekov wasn't really in control of his faculties in Wrath of Khan; so he arguably remains innocent in the social meaning of the word. Sure, he physically did some awful shit, but even more than someone with a literal gun to their head, he had no control (or a very minimal amount) over his actions. I think he lost his innocence (if you know what I mean) to Tamoon in The Gamesters of Triskelion.
@@keithklassen5320 Not only that, but franchises where the people who were working on it from the beginning or for a long time have dipped in quality at various points. Certainly the Bond films have, and they're kinda like Friday the 13th in respect that you go into them knowing exactly what to expect and that's why the quality varies for even the late great Sean Connery's run.
Star Trek IV was a first contact event. They should’ve followed up with the tracking of the probe as it returns to the source. This is, after all, a series about exploration and discovery.
Debate topic: Why would the President of Earth be the one to preside over their court-martial? That somehow implies that he has not only executive, but also judicial powers - which means that separation of powers / checks an balances are no longer present in the Federation, as they are today (at least as per the Constitution) in the US Federal Government. The President of Earth could perhaps issue a Pardon, much as is done today by POTUS. That could even be done before the trial commences, a la Ford pardoning Nixon.
+Ryan Downey Meh, ST Beyond is fine. Only Generations is a blow-up movie that really done the dirty, and while the Enterprise isn't blown up, I do give the dirty eye to Into Darkness (Ugh!!)
My top concern about this movie, is how do they explain how everybody is wearing the exact same outfits as they wore in Star Trek 3, except for Checkov?
'Hope'? . . . 'DOES'. I watched 'Voyage' beat 'Wrath' in a no-holds-barred match of Rock, Paper, Sciccor(ing). •Tom Cruise is NOT a Homosexual. Okaaaay? . . . Okay.
It turns out Rama was built by whales all along. O_O And that's still a better ending than what we get in the original books... (The whale probe reused a prop from the Rama film that ended up never being made)
@@Idelacio Whaaaat, you don't like long, slightly-prejudiced diatribes/tracts on race relations, sexuality, and power dynamics masquerading as a hard science fiction... sequel? (Cuz they weren't exactly hard in and of themselves. The author might have been while writing them, though...)
@@Descanlin No I hate fake sequels that were 'co-written' with the original author where he clearly had limited input on the actual book. :3 I never got to the third book, it got lost in the mail. By the time I realised this I had read the second and just wrote it off as good fortune. First one is absolutely great though, always love that kind of sci-fi. It's why I love Dragon's egg but despise Starquake even though they are written by the same author.
Two observations. First, Diane Duane wrote an official sequel to Star Trek 4 called probe. I have it, haven't read it in almost 30 years oh, but it goes into some detail explaining the origins of the probe and why it did what it did. If I'm recalling correctly, they did not realize that anything as small as humans would be alive and machines are non organic. Regarding Star Trek V. You obviously have a lot of passionate reasoning for not liking the film which I can respect. I will say that I don't really agree I do think it's a flood film but it's not as bad as you make it sound as far as one man stands alone. I have the novelization which is based on the original script and I have read Shatner's movie memories. The crew that turn against him turn against him because the villain of the movie uses the Vulcan mind meld as a way of performing sort of lobotomy. He pulls up your deepest darkest saddest moment and then uses the Vite Vulcan mind meld 2 help you move past it. And the strength of this as well as the fact that it's psychic surgery is what causes them to follow him. He essentially fill's people with a Messianic sensation. The reason why, in story anyway, McCoy and Spock fail to betray Kirk is because out of everyone on the crew, they are his closest friends. That bond of friendship is what helps them overcome the psychic surgery. While Kirk has been with and around most of the crew for four years, he is not as close as he is to spock and McCoy. Now, there's a valid argument that that particular interpretation is incorrect. Shatner especially at that point in his life really did not grasp what made Star Trek popular. His interpretation would have been purely through the lens of all of the episodes he did, which featured him Spock and McCoy having shenanigans. So to Shatner's eyes, the rest of the crew while loyal, would be more willing to work with sybok. I believe the novelization also makes it explicitly clear that the crew doesn't see themselves as betraying Kirk, they believe so much in the vision of the villain that they think that all will be made clear to Kirk once they get to the center of the Galaxy. No, the movie does absolutely nothing to make this point clear and some of that is Shatner failing and some of that is his inexperience. But the film is not a bad movie and I wouldn't say it's inaccurate to Star Trek lore. Just flawed
Hell, nimbus 3 is an explorable world on star trek online. Just wish they could give us an outfit pack for final frontier. Imagine wearing sybok's robes in battle.
I loved The Voyage Home back then and I still love it now. It has not lost any of the charm that it had when it was new, not for me anyhow. Films with slap-you-in-the-face messages usually turn me off, but here i don't mind at all and that is because the crew of the Enterprise sell it so well. It is an absurd mission, but they acknowledge the absurdity and do what must be done anyhow. With Nicholas Meyer writing the 1980s section, it is no wonder that Kirk's glasses make an appearance. Small details like that are great! This film perfectly set up a new movie that could basically start from scratch and give us a bold new adventure. It is too bad that Shatner steered us in the direction of the search for God, one of the worst ideas possible for Star Trek. It is also unfortunate that the studio mandated humor in an attempt to mimic what they felt was the reason for The Voyage Home's success. It still upsets me that the beautiful shot of the Enterprise flying off into warp speed at the end of IV is immediately turned into bad comedy in Star Trek V as the Enterprise is revealed to be a broken piece of crap. So much potential squandered. Too bad that the new Star Trek franchise doesn't understand anything that these past creators understood. Even Star Trek V for all of its flaws has more heart than anything the new films offered.
10:02 The whale probe is that one tourist who keeps yelling louder for ranch dressing to the hapless waiter who doesn't know wtf they're talking about, let alone understand them.
Given that 4 was released in late 86, and Next Gen started production in early 87, it would certainly make some sense that they were thinking about that already..
1701-A makes sense because it is another Constitution-class ship 1701-D on the other hand makes ZERO sense. Never in the history of vessel registries has a ship with the same name used the registry number of a previous ship of a different class. The (soon to be) three "Enterprise" aircraft carriers all have different registry numbers, because they are of different hull classes. Enterprise-B should not have been 1701-B, it should have been something like 2001-2010 and just been called "Enterprise" ... but then, these are the same people that forgot to read Matt Jeffries' notes. NCC was based no the naval designation "CC" which was Heavy Cruiser. The Reliant for example (as a Light Cruiser) should have been NCL-1864. Not gonna put all the blame on Nick Meyer for that, as in The Motion Picture, we hear Epsilon IX's comm chatter referring to Scout's Columbia and Revere as NCC-621 and NCC-595, which would also be incorrect. For those who believe NCC stands for "Naval Construction Contract" - that is from non-canon RPG sourcebooks
@@k1productions87 i hate it when people think too deeply about things. Star Trek is 300 years later, so I guess things can be different than they are now, at least to a degree. Also, this is fiction with a man who keeps on saving the day when no other ever can. So they gave him a ship with the same registry number as a way to show their gratitude. That is what makes the Star Trek fiction enjoyable and helps us connect with it. Who cares if it is the way they would really do it in real life? Not me.
@@jamiebraswell5520 the problem is, there was a set of details and rules set up previously, and those were just chucked out the window for no good reason. If Jeffries had stated back in 1965 that the registry number is specific to ship names, then I would have no problem with it,... but he didn't. He was specifically basing it off naming and registration conventions of the Navy and designed it accordingly. its not the only thing TNG chucked out the window. In their very first episode, they stomp all over the backstory to only the most recognized villain of the franchise (Khan). And THEN a decade later, stomping over it one more time, erasing even their OWN established history. ... that is not the way you respect either your franchise nor your fans. Consistency was all I was asking for, I don't think that is too much to ask
If you want to see his old review of it from years ago, that's up already. He's... not kind to it. sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/film5.php If you want to wait for the more serious less jokey edited for youtube version, (that'll be 90% the same but shorter and less jokes) that should be out Dec 12.
Knowledge is knowing the Gracie is pregnant. Wisdom is knowing whether or not to tell the cetacean biologist. Philosophy is wondering whether he could have mind-melded with the whale foetus.
I was a kid when I first saw Voyage. I didn't like it. Figuring it wasn't as good as Wrath of Khan because the action scenes. Only with age would it help me in appreciating it.
Marty: "You built a time machine... out of a bird of prey?"
Doc: "The way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine, why not do it with some style!"
Sounds like a remake where they use a Ford Raptor in lieu of the DeLorean.
@@BogeyTheBear If they ever dare to remake Back to the Future, I will stop watching new movies all together.
@@Tuning3434 A BTTF remake may very well signal the end of the world.
Doc Brown and Commander Kruge encounter each other via the Space-Time continuum😜
@@seatspud no, a Wizard of Oz or Gone with the Wind remake would be.
If only modern Star Trek films were made with this level warmth and humanity.
They are.
@Lady Wanderer there is Lower Decks.
@@chad8767 While I actually like Lower Decks, OP said "films." I assume they were talking about JJ Abrams films, unless there's some other films out I haven't heard of :P
As for the shows, my two cents: The shows are kind of hit-or-miss - LD is fun and I like it when a franchise is willing to go out on a limb and poke fun at itself, Discovery is... Discovery, and Picard has an interesting premise, intersting plot points, my favourite author Michael Chabon is involved, and it's... Fine? I guess? The plot feels so supremely rushed though, and it's got some big misteps. Picard feels middling, like "better than enterprise, about the same as voyager on a good day, nowhere near the heights of DS9, TNG, or TOS."
'Humanity'. = YES
Present-day [Modern] Trek is poop.
Stop. Watching.
Modern Star Trek films could have potentially been as such... if we didn't prop Wrath of Khan up so high up as some kind of Star Trek excellence. While it is true, Wrath of Khan is a great FILM,... its not a great "Trek",... and because of this, short-sighted Hollywood Studio Execs, always looking for the most return for the least effort, immediately latch onto "Bad guy out for revenge"... and that is what we got... with virtually every single Star Trek film since 1991. Bad guy - battle - revenge - quoting literature. Rinse - lather - repeat.
As for the quip about modern Star Trek films,... I still rank all three Abrams films over every TNG film, except First Contact, which I rank between Beyond and 2009. The last time we had gotten a legitimately good Star Trek film before then was Undiscovered Country, and even that one was full of contrivances, plot holes, and bogus setting structure. (Exactly how did the shock wave of Praxis exploding reach the Excelsior while it was outside Klingon space?)
2009 definitely had more heart than any film of the TNG era, especially when it came to other characters. Every TNG film was just "The Picard and Data Show"
Beyond went a step further, not only with the Enterprise crew, but the message that Humanity's strength is its warmth rather than requiring some kind of conflict in order to be strong. It was the whole message of the film. Plus tying in a bit of Enterprise was nice as well. Its just too bad that Paramount did such a piss poor job promoting the film, you'd think they were deliberately trying to sabotage it
My dad and I still occasionally do that joke where we speak into the mouse to contact the computer.
Every time a glass shattered or someone was thrown through a glass table on TNG, I always thought "Don't they have transparent aluminum?"
Here is a bonus thought: In Next Generation, it is established they have found a way to greatly increase the lifespan of dilitium crystals. This is probably the progression of the technique Spock and Scotty had to make up on the spot to squeeze a bit more energy out of their crystals.
And we now know Spock probably got the idea from Queen Po when working on a way to send his sister to the distant future!
@@JosephDavies Alex Kurtzman hates Star Trek
@@philzilla2k no, you just don't like what he's producing.
@@paulheap1982 he is producing really bad content, so of course we don't like it. His product is so bad that it makes it seem like he in fact hates Trek, even if it is simple incompetence.
@@jamiebraswell5520 It seems malice and genuine hatred are involved here. Not just hatred for the franchise and the themes, storyline, general philosophy and characters, but also an unexplained contempt for the loyal fans of the original. Kurtzman is cancer thriving in a carcinogenic ecology where others like him thrive. Sadly, Trek is no more.
When Kruge's ship reach Warp 8.8 you are going to see some serious shit.
Shatner’s toupé excelled in this movie in that underwater scene. Superb performance.
Chuck's closing lines: "Seeing them return to the Enterprise is saying the long odyssey is over, we've come home. Look, your seat is right where you left it. Buckle in, because we about to go where no one has gone before."
Me: "...to Star Trek 5."
"On second thought, that's a silly place. Let's not go there."
That was a nice reference to Homer's poem The Odyssey!
no, the undiscovered country!!
@@kereminde It's only a model.
Star Trek 5: the reason theaters had seatbelts installed in 1989.
"Time warp?"
"IT'S JUST A JUMP TO THE LEFT!"
And then a step to the right!
With your hands on your hips!
@@theheavymetalbrony2257 You bring your knees in tight!
@@theendlessoptimist But it's the pelvic trust, that really drives you insane!
Don't start.
When Jane Wyatt showed up the audience broke out in applause.
This movie was my first introduction to Star Trek. The scene of Sarek and the Klingon Ambassador sold me to the franchise:
Sarek: Your vessel did destroy U.S.S. Grissom. Your men did kill Kirk's son. Do you deny these events?
Klingon Ambassador: We deny nothing! We have the right to preserve our race!
Sarek: You have the right to commit murder?
Klingon Ambassador: (surprised Pikachu face)
You would think, with how worked up the Klingon ambassador was, that Commander Kruge was his son.
@@All2Meme I think the Klingon Ambassador was hammering his case on the "outrage" of Genesis being a Federation WMD when just those few words Sarek not on refuted it but slam dunked that while the Klingons would declare and likely use Genesis as a WMD the Federation would not. That leading to the Klingon Ambassador's surprised Pikachu face at him being diplomatically checkmated by Chad Federation Ambassador Sarek in less than 10 moves.
@@Lasershadow I was going to make a joke about the "Virgin Klingon Ambassador [x]" vs etc, but... Damn, does this guy even have a name? Is he that low-tier next to Chadbassador Sarek? Whoof.
@@Descanlin His name is Kamarag on Memory Alpha and he is low tier I guess since his article is at the top of Unnamed Klingons (23rd Century). IMO he really was looking low tier standing opposed to Sarek and I think he knew it the moment Sarek challenged him.
Voyage Home was my introduction as well. The VHS tape that had the teaser trailer for Next Generation at the beginning, complete with incomplete warp effect, and a confusing shot where hand phasers were being used as handheld tractor beams or something LOL.
I saw these movies when they were released in theaters and you'd think by now there's nothing more to say, but that was a rapt and insightful retrospective and now something's in my eye. Thank you for doing justice to this gem that as you say just couldn't have been contrived or replicated. It's especially satisfying now to see how Leonard Nimoy was able to deliver what he really wanted for the characters and franchise. Even with the humor and convoluted storyline, nothing is wasted. "Please tell mother, 'I feel fine.'"
I didn't know Sisko's Dad was an Admiral 😉🤣
I always thought it was Sisko’s grandfather
He was also in Soylent Green and To Kill a Mockingbird:)
@@UltraIsa297 Yeah I caught the oops but I like and will use your reason to give it a pass.
Got his arm caught in a cotton gin
@@SnabbKassa whoa that's racist but funny lol
This is my all-time favorite Star Trek movie.
YOU - - are CORRECT!
It is mine as well. It was seven-year-old Me's very first introduction to Star Trek, and I feel it was the perfect introduction to have. I really thing that if I was shown Wrath of Khan instead, I wouldn't have become so instantly attached to the franchise. I wouldn't have wanted to watch the new Next Generation show on TV, or go see Final Frontier in the theater. I wouldn't have binge watched every previous film (interestingly all in reverse order), and I wouldn't have become the life-long Trekkie I am.
Voyage Home is, in my estimation, the PERFECT "Star Trek" film. Wrath of Khan may be the better "Movie"... but Voyage Home was the better "Star Trek".
@@k1productions87 I had some exposure to TOS reruns and maybe the first three films on TV but this was the first Trek film I saw in theatres and it set up a lifelong fandom.
@@digitaljanus Oh boy I wish I could have seen this in the theaters. But I was only 5 or 6 at the time. I think I needed that one extra year, and the home setting, and the fun TNG teaser trailer on the VHS. It was the perfect storm for my growing brain :P
@Aria Cummings
Not my favorite, but very likely the movie I watched as a child that let me fall in love with the TOS cast.
5:45 : I LOVED John Schuck's performance as the Klingon Ambassador in this scene!
He was really giving a 'Shakespearean' level performance, so much so that by the end of it I was feeling a little "You know, he just might have a point after all" ^_^
13:00 : Holy crap! I had never known about this, after all these years. Well, at least I saved me a couple of bucks by waiting so long ^_^
Brilliant analysis and commentary. I look forward to each release. Thank you!
Ah, the conclusion of the trilogy - most satisfying.
The 900 number audio clip with
DeForest Kelley and
Nichelle Nichols Floored me !! Completely Awesome !!!
19:43 Corundum is an aluminum oxide and can be grown as transparent pieces.
Yes Corundum is transparent aluminum, but it is a crystal not a glass. I always got the impression from the film that Scotty's "invention" was a glass... but I could be wrong.
Voyage Home feels like the other side of Search for Spock. I think both are reminiscent of TOS, but the former being the more lighthearted romp that the Original Series often did while also still keeping the stakes relatively important. it feels fitting that the Star Trek show that often did the best comedy in the franchise's history manages the most effective humor in ST's movie history. Even though the farcical elements in TVH lean on being a bit too wacky at times, it still feels like a world of difference between this and the attempts at Insurrection or 09.
The scene is _Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home_ where Uhura and Chevok stop a female passer-by who answers _Uh, I don't know if I know the answer to that, I think it's across the bay in Alameda_ was ad-libbed by Layla Sarakalo an uncredited extra, who was told to act natural and agreed to it to make some money. Usually, extras have no lines, but the production crew liked it so much that they had to track her down to get her to sign a contract in order to keep the scene in the movie.
The novelization gives the “thoughts” of the probe and it knows exactly what it is doing and does not care. It also gives a translation of the “conversation.”
Big feels from the end of this video. I got a bit teary-eyed. Well done. :)
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is one of bests Star Trek Movies.
Seeing this vid reminded me just how much I enjoyed this film, how comfortable it made me feel about the future.
As many times as I've seen the Star Trek movies I still get confused sometimes between Vger and the whale probe. I sometimes think they are one and the same before remembering they were two different movies.
Thankfully the Whale Probe did not start firing plasma energy weapons at Earth!
The freeze-frame of Sulu in the chopper. 14:42 just cracked me up.
But the line that floored me was when the narrator says that "no whale has ever directed Star Trek 5." Pity. It might have been a lot better.
A huge thank-you for producing and posting these reviews. They reminded me of why I love these films so much.
Live long and prosper.
One of the best things about this film, was the decision to resurrect the Constitution class in all of her glory! You can’t improve upon perfection. 🖖😀
Damn it, now I want to see the movie where Kirk writes a letter in the past to try and save His son's life in the future, but Krug intercepts it and lives ala BttF style.
Has nobody done a funny subtitles version of the whale-probe conversation?
"Hey whale dudes, where you at?"
"We are here Mr Probe" etc.
SFDebris' original review (from a few years back) has one. sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/film4.php
I love how Kirk Thatcher's character came back in season two of Picard.
It should be noted that although there was no villain in this movie, there was an antagonist (which was the probe). Even though it had no malicious intent, it was still a threat to the heroes and needed to be dealt with.
Oh man, now i have to rewatch the movie. I freaking love it. Great analysis.
I continue to enjoy the videos you make, and thank you for them.
I loved Star Trek IV
I love this movie. While not the best of them in my book, it's certainly the top 3.
It also carries with it one of the long running and beloved gags, now witnessed for truth: " _We have evolved a bit in our medical science, we no longer use leeches or bloodletting._ "
It's amazing how much medical science has progressed so far in the years since Star Trek IV came out, and we're still over 200 years away from the TOS era.
I've recently learned that there was a dropped plot point of Saavik having David's son. I suspect there was a larger part for Saavik originally, but Bennett kept her in the film anyways as at least a cameo.
I love this movie and I was excited for it since he started analyzing Wrath of Khan, great job with these!
12:23 Nuclear vessel? What is that? I’m going to assume you meant wessel and move on. 🤓
Edit: 15:13 Now we’re cooking with fission.
*In Valley Girl voice* Science is cool!
Not having the conversation between the whales and the probe also allowed Chuck to add in his own subtitle gag in the original review, so that's another good reason not to translate it in the film. :)
I'm normally not a fan of the fans incessant need to tie everything in the trek universe together (like how every vaguely robotic character or plot device must be related to the Borg) but its my head canon tat te whale probe is related to the doomsday device, that the doomsday device originally resembled the whale probe but with its planet destroying orifice instead of the sphere.
It was originally a cylinder of neutron star matter that has been consuming its self over the ages as it drifts around trying to complete its mission.
The whale probe in my canon is made by the same people but instead its mission is to travel the galaxy checking on te various worlds and inhabitants who were effected in their catastrophic war.
Both objects are old and barely functioning as intended, the whale probe maintains an almost perfect shape because its not just destroying planet after planet.
Excellent! Your plausible head canon explains away some of the problems with the film and makes it even better.
I prefer entities to be separate, in all honesty. The galaxy is far more huge than we can wrap our head around, and the universe beyond is infinite with other galaxies abounding. I mean, there is room within this galaxy alone for the V'Ger cloud of 82 AUs ( as it was in the theatrical cut) to travel without hitting anything. I hate the idea of linking these things, no offense intended. Trelane does not need to be a member of the Q Continuum. The God imposter does not need to have been imprisoned behind the Great Barrier by Q. The Borg did not have to originate with V'ger. And last but not least, the Doomsday Machine does not need to be created by the same race that made the Whale Probe. I feel that these types of connective ideas makes the galaxy and beyond way too small. ;-)
I love these breakdowns of the movies.
...Then we get to Star Trek V where the "seat" has a "Squeak".
We get this gorgeous new ship with a gorgeous new bridge,... and the first thing they do in the next film is piss all over it.
Now,... I DO love the layout of the Final Frontier bridge (just replace the beige carpeting with grey), particularly the animated screens rather than static displays. But the ship herself is totally disrespected, even moreso than the rest of the bridge crew.
@@k1productions87 The Star Trek VI bridge is better, but yeah. The set designers created an amazing bridge for Star Trek V for the script to shit over.
@@Xondar11223344 I don't agree. I prefer the layout of the Final Frontier bridge, and how all the controls are Okduagrams, rather than physical buttons, switches and knobs. Also the Final Frontier consoles are more prominently blues than greens.
Also, Undiscoverd Country makes no effort at all in blending the animated screens with the static backlit ones. The screens stand out so brightly while the backlit are darker tot he point where it seemed purposeful. The Final Frontier at least makes the backlit plexis look the same brightness as the actual screens.
The one advantage Undiscovered's bridge had was the grey chair padding as opposed to the beige. If only Final Frontier's bridge had that chair padding, and that color for the carpeting.
What I don't like though is the metal grated floor of Undiscovered, the previously mentioned physical switches and knobs, the blatant and obvious clocks, nor do I like moving the turbolifts to the sides rather than aft. It makes the Captain have to turn far more to speak to Sciences and Communications as they are both now behind him. Also the new wing panels on both consoles are not actually trained forward. One would theorize the point of those wing extensions was to allow those officers to face toward the viewscreen,... but they still have to turn their head quite a bit. If the consoles were in their original Final Frontier position, looking at the viewscreen would have been far more comfortable.
I think the only reason for moving the consoles that way was to have that ending "here are all the characters" shot at the end. Literally no other purpose for it.
@@k1productions87 One reason I like the TUC bridge is exactly a lot of the things you mentioned. I love the metal grated floor, and I hate carpeted floor on the bridge. I love the physical switches and knobs. I like how they're integrated with the okudagrams since both are workable controls. I love the red they chose as accents to the bridge, and I think it contrasts beautifully with the blue they chose for the Excelsior bridge. It's much better than the cream colour they used in Star Trek V anyway.
@@Xondar11223344 Carpeted floor would look better if it was a simple solid grey instead of the beige, I feel.
Perhaps its not so much having the physical switches, but with how they absolutely dominate everything else. Virtually all the Okudagrams on the Helm/Nav panel are so dark and subdued, they are practically non-existent. If the touch displays were brighter and stood out more, the physical switches wouldn't be so off-putting
Yes, I do love the red accents on the console padding as well as the blue on the Excelsior. Both work great, as opposed to the previously mentioned beige.
So take the either red or blue padding and grey instead of beige and apply that to the Final Frontier layout, and it would improve that version so much. And for the love of God, have the animated displays and the static ones be the same brightness so it doesn't look so cheap.
The Klingons were a stand-in for the Soviets, whom we now know cut corners with their military designs. The earlier Soviet Nuclear Submarines have been called "floating cancer factories". Federation ships did the time travel slingshot maneuver without losing their crystals; the Klingon ship doesn't. Coincidence?!
5:47 I love how this line manages to low-key set up the plot (and even the ending) of Star Trek 6 at a time when there was absolutely no plan for there to even be a Star Trek 6.
If you could get part 5 out of the way, parts 2, 3, 4 and 6 would almost seem like they were a planned quadrilogy thanks to little touches (and/or happy accidents) like that. _Almost._ The whole "Let's all go on new adventures!" tone at the end of part 4 wouldn't lead very well into the "Let's all get ready for retirement" tone at the beginning of part 6. But in terms of relevant set-ups and payoffs, and one development logically leading to another.
You know I never considered it but perhaps the best test of a Star Trek series is if you believe that the crew would be able to sit down and have a dinner party and behave like family and not like co-workers.
Original Crew? Oh yes. TNG? Most certainly. DS9? Yeah though Odo would think Quark was going to steal the silverware.
Voyager? ...eh. Maybe. They'd be able to eat like co-workers, break off into little groups, but I don't see them having a spirited and fun dinner all together.
Enterprise? ...bwahahahahaha no!
Discovery? Well, I suppose Michal just sitting alone in a room, telling the rest of the crew to wait till she was done eating then they could get the scraps...
Picard? ...no, not really.
Well said. Especially Michael.
On the whole idea that Whales are aliens, one thing chuck doesn't consider is that while Whales lack appendages for tool use, they could have evolved to possess psychic abilities, both telekinetic as well as telepathic. After all, it's not like the probe could actually hear the whale songs from up in orbit so they were communicating by some other means. So I could see cetacean creatures evolving and using their abilities to construct technology.
That was beautiful.
First Contact was the most main stream of all Star Trek Prime movies.
We do have transparent Aluminum, we call it Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald
(paraphrased)"In the commentary Shatner says that it's possible that whales are smarter than humans... But I suppose it could be argued that a whale never directed Star Trek V"
Ha! I laughed out loud at that one 😂
Star Trek V was directed by Ego the Living Planet...strike that, it was Man With Planet-sized Ego. :-P
OMG I remember calling the Star Trek IV 900 number when i was a kid!
"They like you very much but they`re not the hell your whales",,,, "one damn minute sir."...
Damned, although raised up by TNG and successors, I LOVE THESE GUYS TOO!
Well Happy Birthday to me! An Sfdebris video.
McCoy: C'mon Spock, it's me - McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like?
Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference.
McCoy: You're joking.
Spock: A joke . . . is a story with a humorous climax?
McCoy: You mean I have to DIE to discuss your insights on death? What do you want me to do, go to a shore leave planet where everything you imagine becomes real and get killed by a lancing knight or something? Sheesh, I should have just asked Scotty what it was like before he was resurrected by NOMAD.
Great review.
SFDebris - that last minute of your review. Onion Ninjas man. Onion Ninjas everywhere.
I'm glad the original vids R back, but these YT friendly summaries R pretty good, too. I really hope he does this treatment for Dr Who, The Macra Terror, as the BBC killed his updated review of that serial.
"Before Chekov lost his innocence"? Is...is that a euphemism?
It could be referring to the mind controlling worms from WoK.
@@Ridgwaycer Semantics maybe, but Chekov wasn't really in control of his faculties in Wrath of Khan; so he arguably remains innocent in the social meaning of the word. Sure, he physically did some awful shit, but even more than someone with a literal gun to their head, he had no control (or a very minimal amount) over his actions. I think he lost his innocence (if you know what I mean) to Tamoon in The Gamesters of Triskelion.
So, Star Trek is in continuity with the MCU? I guess this would explain the Eugenics Wars.
In other words, sequels back then are like sequels today.
The only difference is, now people accept it.
@@keithklassen5320 Not only that, but franchises where the people who were working on it from the beginning or for a long time have dipped in quality at various points. Certainly the Bond films have, and they're kinda like Friday the 13th in respect that you go into them knowing exactly what to expect and that's why the quality varies for even the late great Sean Connery's run.
10:58 - 11:02 LOL I would never had put that irony together on my own.
Star Trek IV was a first contact event. They should’ve followed up with the tracking of the probe as it returns to the source. This is, after all, a series about exploration and discovery.
First time I saw the movie, I assumed the Enterprise was doing just that at the end of the film-- jumping to warp in order to follow the probe.
Debate topic: Why would the President of Earth be the one to preside over their court-martial? That somehow implies that he has not only executive, but also judicial powers - which means that separation of powers / checks an balances are no longer present in the Federation, as they are today (at least as per the Constitution) in the US Federal Government.
The President of Earth could perhaps issue a Pardon, much as is done today by POTUS. That could even be done before the trial commences, a la Ford pardoning Nixon.
15:50 MCU takes place in the same timeline as OG Star Trek confirmed, apparently
Oh look, it's a Star Trek film that doesn't blow up the Enterprise! I wish more recent Trek movies would note that.
+Ryan Downey
Meh, ST Beyond is fine. Only Generations is a blow-up movie that really done the dirty, and while the Enterprise isn't blown up, I do give the dirty eye to Into Darkness (Ugh!!)
It used its cast and let them shine. How so many Trek movies forget to do that.
My top concern about this movie, is how do they explain how everybody is wearing the exact same outfits as they wore in Star Trek 3, except for Checkov?
The only movie in the entire series that has a hope of beating out Wrath of Khan for best (in my opinion at least).
'Hope'? . . . 'DOES'. I watched 'Voyage' beat 'Wrath' in a no-holds-barred match of Rock, Paper, Sciccor(ing).
•Tom Cruise is NOT a Homosexual. Okaaaay? . . . Okay.
It turns out Rama was built by whales all along. O_O
And that's still a better ending than what we get in the original books...
(The whale probe reused a prop from the Rama film that ended up never being made)
There's no significant evidence of that. As far as anyone can tell its just a self sustaining rumor.
@@DrewLSsix Most likely but I'd still rather Rama was built by whales. XD
In fact I'd like to forget any of the sequel books were written... ¬¬
@@Idelacio Whaaaat, you don't like long, slightly-prejudiced diatribes/tracts on race relations, sexuality, and power dynamics masquerading as a hard science fiction... sequel? (Cuz they weren't exactly hard in and of themselves. The author might have been while writing them, though...)
@@Descanlin No I hate fake sequels that were 'co-written' with the original author where he clearly had limited input on the actual book. :3
I never got to the third book, it got lost in the mail. By the time I realised this I had read the second and just wrote it off as good fortune.
First one is absolutely great though, always love that kind of sci-fi. It's why I love Dragon's egg but despise Starquake even though they are written by the same author.
Exacty. It works because no other film tries to do the same thing
Two observations.
First, Diane Duane wrote an official sequel to Star Trek 4 called probe. I have it, haven't read it in almost 30 years oh, but it goes into some detail explaining the origins of the probe and why it did what it did. If I'm recalling correctly, they did not realize that anything as small as humans would be alive and machines are non organic.
Regarding Star Trek V. You obviously have a lot of passionate reasoning for not liking the film which I can respect. I will say that I don't really agree I do think it's a flood film but it's not as bad as you make it sound as far as one man stands alone.
I have the novelization which is based on the original script and I have read Shatner's movie memories. The crew that turn against him turn against him because the villain of the movie uses the Vulcan mind meld as a way of performing sort of lobotomy. He pulls up your deepest darkest saddest moment and then uses the Vite Vulcan mind meld 2 help you move past it. And the strength of this as well as the fact that it's psychic surgery is what causes them to follow him. He essentially fill's people with a Messianic sensation.
The reason why, in story anyway, McCoy and Spock fail to betray Kirk is because out of everyone on the crew, they are his closest friends. That bond of friendship is what helps them overcome the psychic surgery.
While Kirk has been with and around most of the crew for four years, he is not as close as he is to spock and McCoy.
Now, there's a valid argument that that particular interpretation is incorrect. Shatner especially at that point in his life really did not grasp what made Star Trek popular. His interpretation would have been purely through the lens of all of the episodes he did, which featured him Spock and McCoy having shenanigans. So to Shatner's eyes, the rest of the crew while loyal, would be more willing to work with sybok.
I believe the novelization also makes it explicitly clear that the crew doesn't see themselves as betraying Kirk, they believe so much in the vision of the villain that they think that all will be made clear to Kirk once they get to the center of the Galaxy.
No, the movie does absolutely nothing to make this point clear and some of that is Shatner failing and some of that is his inexperience. But the film is not a bad movie and I wouldn't say it's inaccurate to Star Trek lore. Just flawed
Hell, nimbus 3 is an explorable world on star trek online. Just wish they could give us an outfit pack for final frontier. Imagine wearing sybok's robes in battle.
To be honest, the temporary tank didn’t NEED to be transparent for the short trip through time.
Why does your website not want to play certain episodes of Star Trek?
I loved The Voyage Home back then and I still love it now. It has not lost any of the charm that it had when it was new, not for me anyhow. Films with slap-you-in-the-face messages usually turn me off, but here i don't mind at all and that is because the crew of the Enterprise sell it so well. It is an absurd mission, but they acknowledge the absurdity and do what must be done anyhow. With Nicholas Meyer writing the 1980s section, it is no wonder that Kirk's glasses make an appearance. Small details like that are great!
This film perfectly set up a new movie that could basically start from scratch and give us a bold new adventure. It is too bad that Shatner steered us in the direction of the search for God, one of the worst ideas possible for Star Trek. It is also unfortunate that the studio mandated humor in an attempt to mimic what they felt was the reason for The Voyage Home's success. It still upsets me that the beautiful shot of the Enterprise flying off into warp speed at the end of IV is immediately turned into bad comedy in Star Trek V as the Enterprise is revealed to be a broken piece of crap. So much potential squandered.
Too bad that the new Star Trek franchise doesn't understand anything that these past creators understood. Even Star Trek V for all of its flaws has more heart than anything the new films offered.
10:02 The whale probe is that one tourist who keeps yelling louder for ranch dressing to the hapless waiter who doesn't know wtf they're talking about, let alone understand them.
...pls make a Discussion video about Star Trek 5, and how bad it is? I would listen, even if it was 2-3 hours long.
I totally called that 900 number. Does that make me old?
I heard somewhere that the Enterprise-A appears as such so that the soon-to-arrive (so to say) -D makes more sense. Any truth to that?
Given that 4 was released in late 86, and Next Gen started production in early 87, it would certainly make some sense that they were thinking about that already..
Seems more likely to have go the other way its called -D because this one was called -A.
1701-A makes sense because it is another Constitution-class ship
1701-D on the other hand makes ZERO sense. Never in the history of vessel registries has a ship with the same name used the registry number of a previous ship of a different class. The (soon to be) three "Enterprise" aircraft carriers all have different registry numbers, because they are of different hull classes.
Enterprise-B should not have been 1701-B, it should have been something like 2001-2010 and just been called "Enterprise"
... but then, these are the same people that forgot to read Matt Jeffries' notes. NCC was based no the naval designation "CC" which was Heavy Cruiser. The Reliant for example (as a Light Cruiser) should have been NCL-1864.
Not gonna put all the blame on Nick Meyer for that, as in The Motion Picture, we hear Epsilon IX's comm chatter referring to Scout's Columbia and Revere as NCC-621 and NCC-595, which would also be incorrect.
For those who believe NCC stands for "Naval Construction Contract" - that is from non-canon RPG sourcebooks
@@k1productions87 i hate it when people think too deeply about things. Star Trek is 300 years later, so I guess things can be different than they are now, at least to a degree. Also, this is fiction with a man who keeps on saving the day when no other ever can. So they gave him a ship with the same registry number as a way to show their gratitude. That is what makes the Star Trek fiction enjoyable and helps us connect with it. Who cares if it is the way they would really do it in real life? Not me.
@@jamiebraswell5520 the problem is, there was a set of details and rules set up previously, and those were just chucked out the window for no good reason.
If Jeffries had stated back in 1965 that the registry number is specific to ship names, then I would have no problem with it,... but he didn't. He was specifically basing it off naming and registration conventions of the Navy and designed it accordingly.
its not the only thing TNG chucked out the window. In their very first episode, they stomp all over the backstory to only the most recognized villain of the franchise (Khan). And THEN a decade later, stomping over it one more time, erasing even their OWN established history. ... that is not the way you respect either your franchise nor your fans.
Consistency was all I was asking for, I don't think that is too much to ask
Good review!
So Star Trek and the MCU inhabit the same universe? God, they missed a trick in Endgame!
Spock: "An ancestor of mine once said, 'With great power comes great responsibility.'"
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
This video is mislabeled, the proper title is Star Trek IV: The One With The Whales
Bravo.
What "creative failings" in ST 3?
Please go easy on ST5! I love that movie but find it hard to explain exactly why
If you want to see his old review of it from years ago, that's up already. He's... not kind to it.
sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/film5.php
If you want to wait for the more serious less jokey edited for youtube version, (that'll be 90% the same but shorter and less jokes) that should be out Dec 12.
@@robbybevard8034 Thanks! Oh well.....
this was good but however strange and unusual film
Later on we do find out Klingon clerics do have time crystals.
Knowledge is knowing the Gracie is pregnant. Wisdom is knowing whether or not to tell the cetacean biologist. Philosophy is wondering whether he could have mind-melded with the whale foetus.
16:55 holy shit maybe Shatner is right about whales
I still think that in Star Trek V the crew is sort of brainwashed, even if Shatner says otherwise.
Like or Dislike: Like. Compelling commentary.
@20:30 - someone's a little defensive ...
"The oceans begin vaporizing and the weather is out of control".
Sounds familiar ...
I thought it was set in the future though.
*Yawn*
Spock did a little too much LDS in the Sixties, didn't he?
More psycho janeway or Star Trek parody commentary period. It’s the funniest trek I’ve ever watched. Plus you’re usually on point with your humor.
ST4 is the first ST sitcom and a better sitcom then the real ST sitcom we later got got. I'm looking at you Lower Decks.
I was a kid when I first saw Voyage. I didn't like it. Figuring it wasn't as good as Wrath of Khan because the action scenes. Only with age would it help me in appreciating it.
It’s pronounced nuclear WESSEL. Common English translation problem.
Shout out to boombox guy, who's far more willing to turn his music down now.