Fun fact: Terra Prime were the original villains considered for the first season, back when it was "lets construct the Enterprise and gather the crew" season. I think they make for stronger villains than the Suliban at least.
Thank you, Chuck. Very poignant thoughts. And _this_ is _exactly_ the kind of thing that Star Trek _should_ be causing after you watch it. ;) It is very alarming when I catch myself falling into a confirmation bias situation. I think the thing people have trouble with is admitting they were wrong. So, I try to do my best to own up to it if someone ever catches me blindly following something false that "my side" said was true. Maybe some real progress could be made if we could get more people to acknowledge that they have fallen prey to confirmation bias. If you don't, all it does is serve to strengthen that carefully crafted information bubble. Great stuff, man! Love your work! :)
An example of the false confession you talk about can be seen in an episode of NCIS where McGee shoots someone who turns out to be a detective. The pressure, his guilt, and the evidence causes him to change his memory of the event several times during the episode.
Heh, I remember pointing out the author's citing of your webpage at the time. Like you, I was more of an observer/documentary of events and I was bewildered by the behavior which seemed to overshadow the actual subject of the argument. This was well presented by you, and to apply it back to Enterprise is almost poetic.
This has more to do with the actual review, but its easier to make comments on YT: Paxton and Terra Prime remind me very much of Maxwell Grandisson III and the Terra Return League of a century later. They were calling for Humans to abandon space and come home, and were in league with other separatist groups calling for a vote at Babel to dissolve the Federation. All just before the invention of the Constitution-Class Starship and the revolutionary tech that allowed the Federation to beat back the Klingon Empire.
Chuck, you are awesome :3... nothing deep or insightfull here. Just thanks... you have being as infulential to shape my outlook on the world than MLP:FiM ;) Your amazing and i hope i can use some of the stuff you talked over X3
Yeah, that's probably it. She was so stubborn about it, Lucasfilm defanged Mandolorians out of retribution! I loved her work, but even i distanced myself real fast with that.
First time through, I think I picked up about half of this. Fascinating stuff - incredibly disturbing too - but also really dense. I'm gonna have to come back for this. Stuff this big maybe should have bullet points or a come with a bulletpointed script. I'll bookmark this to revisit it later.
16:30 why would you expose the same person to the same technique multiple times, thus demonstrating that it's a technique? Silly of the company to do this I was reading about a case in the UK where a guy was convinced to confess to murdering his family. he later retracted the confession but it still got him hanged. 17:30 This is some economics people need to know as much as psychology. You don't need to convince everyone for you to win, just enough people. Solutions don't need to be perfect to work. Even without emotions involved our brains "confabulate" a lot of things because perception only gives us very limited info to work with 20:00 "to redefine the world to make yourself correct actually makes your opponents correct" is what I think whenever someone has to concoct a sci-fi story to make a real technology look bad :P
I'm guessing the example with the fiction author was Karen Traviss and you were referring to the debate on the size of the clone trooper army in Star Wars. (Correct or not, it makes me curious about what page on your site people were being directed too). I know, I know, the details aren't important for the example you were trying to make, but it makes me curious none the less.
@@ImpudentInfidel True, but she still went over the top defending the 3 million figure, to the point that she called some of the people disagreeing with her "Talifan". When you compare people who disagree with you with terrorists, that's not "I'm just doing what the higher ups demanded", that's the "you're wrong and I'm right no matter what" attitude Chuck was talking about.
Thank you! I'd always been confused why Paxton would use an adorable little baby for his propaganda. It had seemed counterproductive. Now it makes sense.
I need to rewatch this, but for now I will say As someone who as recently found myself emotionally pingponging all over the political spectrum, and switching from self-loathing to lashing at everyone, that the human mind is a scary thing
Very Good Sir, I have been a fan of the “GREAT” Doctor E E Smith- his Skylark and Lensmen Novel series. Question: Why has his work inspired so much and yet is unknown to the general public? While reading his works (over and over) I find that I can replace each sentence with a cinematic image. Hundreds of his ideas have found their way into the Hundred years since he published Skylark of Space in 1919- stolen; robed; cannibalized. The Lens and The Force; Galactic Patrol and Starfleet; The HYPERSPACIAL TUBE and The Stargate... Please, please... make some tribute to this Great Granfather of SF.
It was a Star Wars book by Karen Traviss, and Chuck probably just doesn't want to deal with any potential problems from naming her. I never directly participated in that mess, But it was entertaining to watch.
If no one had commented I was going to mention it too. I realized it once he talked about numbers. It's a shame she was so petty, her books were probably above the average of Star Wars novels.
If the salesman had come to my door I would have just closed the door when he ran back to his car. If he rings the door again I would tell him through the door that I had called the cops as a suspicious person was trying to break into my house. Then watch as he once again runs back to his car. ;)
This is such a good companion piece to the review, I used to buy into 9/11 truther stuff when I was a teenager and NWO conspiracy theories and it's so easy to go down a pipeline and add new leaps in logic to maintain flawed beliefs and ideas. Also helped by the people pushing the content being charsmatic, over the top and making you feel like you where part of an epic fight for freedom, destiny etc etc. Glad I got out of that junk, some just double down because having everything you believe shattered is not a good feeling.
"some just double down because having everything you believe shattered is not a good feeling. " or even more, you hate those you are apposing and you will believe anything if it means your not like them.
That's a good short story. Also the person's irrational thinking can also be boiled down to, "if there was a actual God, why does he allow evil to exist". Often this line of thinking boils down to people who are mentally scarred, having a deep trauma they carry. The Vulkans could have stopped the war, they could have ended wars that proceeded it back in the 1960's but it is not their place to play god or to dominate. In essence they took the higher road when it came to first contact. If you compair this with Cortez's landing or other expansionist powers in Europe who saw themselves as spreading Civilization. Then you have two dimentrically opposing views. One view of observation and allowing natural forces to guide, or inserting and exploiting a primitive society for economic gain under the guise of 'enlighten civilization building'.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 or the reason why the Vulcans didn't get involved in WW3 is they simply didn't know Earth even existed. I'm going strictly by what I remember of the tv shows and movies but I seem to recall Vulcans showing up after Cochrane's first warp drive test which was AFTER the war
“What I didn't put in the report was that at the end, he gave me a choice between a life of comfort, or more torture. All I had to do was to say that I could see five lights, when in fact, there were only four. […] I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all, but more than that, I believed that I could _see_ five lights…”
I remember the incident with the sci-fi author that you were talking about. That was a mess, and was one of the reasons I was okay with the property's parent company removing that group of works from their active continuity a few years back. Too bad the stuff they replaced it with was so much worse.
They may have gotten the numbers wrong, but frankly for a science fantasy setting where those numbers are just fluff that isn't important to the stories being said, I'd rather they get that wrong then write bad stories.
No kidding. When it comes to certain kinds of soft sci-fi, focusing on things like realism often seems pointless. Unless it's a goal of the work in question. And for that series, it really isn't. "Would bombs really fall /down/ in /space/?" Folks somehow managed to credulously ask about a series that /started/ with swooping WW2 era dogfights. Whereas a lot of the writing and story criticisms really got to deeper (and quite valid) points imo.
@@RoyalFusilier I really hate that "realism is pointless" argument you're using. That's like saying "You can't complain about the nuking the fridge scene in Indiana Jones 4 because in one of the other movies Indy was thrown through a glass windshield and survived" (an argument I've actually heard before. Yes, both things are unrealistic, but one of them clearly stands out more. Although ultimately the suspension of disbelieve will vary from person to person.
I also wonder how much of that is just caused by people not liking that one but liking the previous three? It may make the gaps in logic seem larger. I'm pretty sure Indy should already died in a falling raft if not earlier. If it's believable to the rules established in that "universe" I usually let it go. That realization actually ruins a bit of Bugs Bunny for me. Why is he so afraid of being shot when to Elmer and Daffy it's a mild inconvenience for a few minutes at worse?
@@ShadowWingTronix Although I do think the nuke is still more outlandish than the falling out of a plane scene, you have a point. Kind of ties into what chuck was saying about confirmation bias. We're quick to dismiss things that disagree with our preconceptions and vice versa. Likewise, we tend to be more forgiving of plotholes or other flaws in movies we like than we are for a movie we hate with a similar flaw.
Terra Prime makes a whole new meaning in the newest Discovery episode, watching this enterprise episode and comparing it to the terran Universe makes sense that the mirror universe fractured around this point in time or the Enterprise Episode.
Watching this video during the 2020 election season I got a political attack ad right after Chuck brings up believing the bad things someone says about a politician you don't like.
damn, that part about forcing people to talk about stuff to make it seem more important is very familiar with how TERF stuff was suddenly everywhere in the last couple of years in the UK. the government had a consultation about reforming a gender recognition law, and the consultation showed most people didn't mind or would prefer the reforms. but when it was about to pass, a bunch of people kicked the ground and dug their heels in and insisted it was really important to hold off on the reforms because they were so passionate about it, but hadn't responded to the original consultation. and now the situation has exploded into tons of UK celebrities "weighing in" on this (previously extremely minor) piece of legislation.
Equally one might make the observation that the mass adoption of John Money style gender Theory exploded in academia and media as a top down imposition. It was not a common consensus even ten years ago.
@@kaitlyn__L Yes; John Money sexually abused the Reimer brothers in the late sixties and codified Gender Theory based on the abuse he inflicted. The escalation of aggressive Gender Theory advocacy in academia, corporate HR and media organisations to the point where simply stating "a woman is a human with a cervix" is highly controversial is a paradigm that began from 2010 onwards. One might even observe that it coincided with escalation of racial justice rhetoric and correlated with the end of the Occupy Movement. Making the underclasses into a house divided is highly beneficial to those above.
Yeah, we're all vulnerable. But people decide what they value as a basis for their judgements and opinions. There's a lot of willful ignorance going on. American politics and American conservatives in particular are amazing to observe from the outside.
Chuck: "It's easier to see this dissonance in others than it is to see it within ourselves" gagaplex: "Yeah but other people do it way more than me". Way to miss the point jackass.
Fun fact: Terra Prime were the original villains considered for the first season, back when it was "lets construct the Enterprise and gather the crew" season. I think they make for stronger villains than the Suliban at least.
Thank you, Chuck. Very poignant thoughts. And _this_ is _exactly_ the kind of thing that Star Trek _should_ be causing after you watch it. ;) It is very alarming when I catch myself falling into a confirmation bias situation. I think the thing people have trouble with is admitting they were wrong. So, I try to do my best to own up to it if someone ever catches me blindly following something false that "my side" said was true. Maybe some real progress could be made if we could get more people to acknowledge that they have fallen prey to confirmation bias. If you don't, all it does is serve to strengthen that carefully crafted information bubble. Great stuff, man! Love your work! :)
That was really well said and insightful. Bravo.
a tip: you can watch movies on flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching all kinds of movies these days.
An example of the false confession you talk about can be seen in an episode of NCIS where McGee shoots someone who turns out to be a detective. The pressure, his guilt, and the evidence causes him to change his memory of the event several times during the episode.
Respect your own needs and that of others. Nonviolent communication is one key to make a better future.
Heh, I remember pointing out the author's citing of your webpage at the time. Like you, I was more of an observer/documentary of events and I was bewildered by the behavior which seemed to overshadow the actual subject of the argument.
This was well presented by you, and to apply it back to Enterprise is almost poetic.
This has more to do with the actual review, but its easier to make comments on YT:
Paxton and Terra Prime remind me very much of Maxwell Grandisson III and the Terra Return League of a century later. They were calling for Humans to abandon space and come home, and were in league with other separatist groups calling for a vote at Babel to dissolve the Federation. All just before the invention of the Constitution-Class Starship and the revolutionary tech that allowed the Federation to beat back the Klingon Empire.
An excellent, timely video. As always, fair and thoughtful.
Chuck, you are awesome :3... nothing deep or insightfull here.
Just thanks... you have being as infulential to shape my outlook on the world than MLP:FiM ;)
Your amazing and i hope i can use some of the stuff you talked over X3
The author story sounds like Karen Travis's clone number number debate for Star Wars
Yeah, that's probably it. She was so stubborn about it, Lucasfilm defanged Mandolorians out of retribution! I loved her work, but even i distanced myself real fast with that.
First time through, I think I picked up about half of this. Fascinating stuff - incredibly disturbing too - but also really dense. I'm gonna have to come back for this. Stuff this big maybe should have bullet points or a come with a bulletpointed script. I'll bookmark this to revisit it later.
16:30 why would you expose the same person to the same technique multiple times, thus demonstrating that it's a technique? Silly of the company to do this
I was reading about a case in the UK where a guy was convinced to confess to murdering his family. he later retracted the confession but it still got him hanged.
17:30 This is some economics people need to know as much as psychology. You don't need to convince everyone for you to win, just enough people. Solutions don't need to be perfect to work.
Even without emotions involved our brains "confabulate" a lot of things because perception only gives us very limited info to work with
20:00 "to redefine the world to make yourself correct actually makes your opponents correct" is what I think whenever someone has to concoct a sci-fi story to make a real technology look bad :P
I'm guessing the example with the fiction author was Karen Traviss and you were referring to the debate on the size of the clone trooper army in Star Wars. (Correct or not, it makes me curious about what page on your site people were being directed too). I know, I know, the details aren't important for the example you were trying to make, but it makes me curious none the less.
Maybe, but I remember it came out later that the numbers were from an editorial mandate.
@@ImpudentInfidel True, but she still went over the top defending the 3 million figure, to the point that she called some of the people disagreeing with her "Talifan". When you compare people who disagree with you with terrorists, that's not "I'm just doing what the higher ups demanded", that's the "you're wrong and I'm right no matter what" attitude Chuck was talking about.
And because she was so stubborn, Mandolorians where made peace loving hippes!
Thank you! I'd always been confused why Paxton would use an adorable little baby for his propaganda. It had seemed counterproductive. Now it makes sense.
That's all well and good, but it won't change my mind about Martians being assholes!
Terra Prime Forever
I need to rewatch this, but for now I will say As someone who as recently found myself emotionally pingponging all over the political spectrum, and switching from self-loathing to lashing at everyone, that the human mind is a scary thing
Someone should probably have told that writer that even an expert can get things wrong.
I smell Karen Traviss.
Great video Chuck!
Truth is often more deceptive than lies.
Very Good Sir, I have been a fan of the “GREAT” Doctor E E Smith- his Skylark and Lensmen Novel series. Question: Why has his work inspired so much and yet is unknown to the general public?
While reading his works (over and over) I find that I can replace each sentence with a cinematic image. Hundreds of his ideas have found their way into the Hundred years since he published Skylark of Space in 1919- stolen; robed; cannibalized. The Lens and The Force; Galactic Patrol and Starfleet; The HYPERSPACIAL TUBE and The Stargate...
Please, please... make some tribute to this Great Granfather of SF.
Now I want to know details about that sci fi writer
Agreed, I"m curious though I also understand why Chuck probably won't tell us.
It was a Star Wars book by Karen Traviss, and Chuck probably just doesn't want to deal with any potential problems from naming her. I never directly participated in that mess, But it was entertaining to watch.
@@pyrophred Lol, it was her and her milions of clones. I should figure it out on my own
If no one had commented I was going to mention it too. I realized it once he talked about numbers. It's a shame she was so petty, her books were probably above the average of Star Wars novels.
Walter Breen, bloody hell.
Basically, act with cold emotionless logic: like a Vulcan 😉
One time, my niece was climbing up the kitchen counter. Her reason? "My brain told me to." Lol
there is....logic in what she says...
Basic stuff. Eloquently said though and I think a lot of people need to hear this.
If the salesman had come to my door I would have just closed the door when he ran back to his car. If he rings the door again I would tell him through the door that I had called the cops as a suspicious person was trying to break into my house. Then watch as he once again runs back to his car. ;)
This is such a good companion piece to the review, I used to buy into 9/11 truther stuff when I was a teenager and NWO conspiracy theories and it's so easy to go down a pipeline and add new leaps in logic to maintain flawed beliefs and ideas. Also helped by the people pushing the content being charsmatic, over the top and making you feel like you where part of an epic fight for freedom, destiny etc etc.
Glad I got out of that junk, some just double down because having everything you believe shattered is not a good feeling.
"some just double down because having everything you believe shattered is not a good feeling.
" or even more, you hate those you are apposing and you will believe anything if it means your not like them.
4:32 unfortunately, one too many turned out to be that, so I'm more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. I would make my own inquiry though.
In relation to your "ridiculous" idea that Vulkans allowed WWIII to happen, I wonder if anyone here has read Asimov's short story The Gentle Vultures?
That's a good short story. Also the person's irrational thinking can also be boiled down to, "if there was a actual God, why does he allow evil to exist". Often this line of thinking boils down to people who are mentally scarred, having a deep trauma they carry. The Vulkans could have stopped the war, they could have ended wars that proceeded it back in the 1960's but it is not their place to play god or to dominate. In essence they took the higher road when it came to first contact. If you compair this with Cortez's landing or other expansionist powers in Europe who saw themselves as spreading Civilization. Then you have two dimentrically opposing views. One view of observation and allowing natural forces to guide, or inserting and exploiting a primitive society for economic gain under the guise of 'enlighten civilization building'.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 So the counter to why God allows evil is 'it's not his position to play God?'
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 or the reason why the Vulcans didn't get involved in WW3 is they simply didn't know Earth even existed. I'm going strictly by what I remember of the tv shows and movies but I seem to recall Vulcans showing up after Cochrane's first warp drive test which was AFTER the war
umm i just want to know the name of the case chuck told us about.
22:20 ... Isn't that Fight Club?
>or that immigration had changed drastically in that time
Maybe not directly in America, but the Europeans would beg to disagree.
Good stuff.
Even if you won't want to admit it, some people are less intelligent than others.
Dosn't change the fact that we're all guilty of this.
“What I didn't put in the report was that at the end, he gave me a choice between a life of comfort, or more torture. All I had to do was to say that I could see five lights, when in fact, there were only four. […] I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all, but more than that, I believed that I could _see_ five lights…”
Y-you are! Six! Years! Old! Weak a-and! Helpless! You cannot.. HUUUUUUUUUURT MEEEEEEEEE!
I remember the incident with the sci-fi author that you were talking about. That was a mess, and was one of the reasons I was okay with the property's parent company removing that group of works from their active continuity a few years back. Too bad the stuff they replaced it with was so much worse.
They may have gotten the numbers wrong, but frankly for a science fantasy setting where those numbers are just fluff that isn't important to the stories being said, I'd rather they get that wrong then write bad stories.
No kidding. When it comes to certain kinds of soft sci-fi, focusing on things like realism often seems pointless. Unless it's a goal of the work in question. And for that series, it really isn't.
"Would bombs really fall /down/ in /space/?" Folks somehow managed to credulously ask about a series that /started/ with swooping WW2 era dogfights.
Whereas a lot of the writing and story criticisms really got to deeper (and quite valid) points imo.
@@RoyalFusilier I really hate that "realism is pointless" argument you're using. That's like saying "You can't complain about the nuking the fridge scene in Indiana Jones 4 because in one of the other movies Indy was thrown through a glass windshield and survived" (an argument I've actually heard before. Yes, both things are unrealistic, but one of them clearly stands out more. Although ultimately the suspension of disbelieve will vary from person to person.
I also wonder how much of that is just caused by people not liking that one but liking the previous three? It may make the gaps in logic seem larger. I'm pretty sure Indy should already died in a falling raft if not earlier. If it's believable to the rules established in that "universe" I usually let it go. That realization actually ruins a bit of Bugs Bunny for me. Why is he so afraid of being shot when to Elmer and Daffy it's a mild inconvenience for a few minutes at worse?
@@ShadowWingTronix Although I do think the nuke is still more outlandish than the falling out of a plane scene, you have a point. Kind of ties into what chuck was saying about confirmation bias. We're quick to dismiss things that disagree with our preconceptions and vice versa. Likewise, we tend to be more forgiving of plotholes or other flaws in movies we like than we are for a movie we hate with a similar flaw.
Where is the first part of this video located?
there are links in the description to the episode reviews. He can't post them on RUclips cause he gets hit with copyright strikes
Terra Prime makes a whole new meaning in the newest Discovery episode, watching this enterprise episode and comparing it to the terran Universe makes sense that the mirror universe fractured around this point in time or the Enterprise Episode.
I am willing to admit my brain is superior to those who disagree with my opinions.
Watching this video during the 2020 election season I got a political attack ad right after Chuck brings up believing the bad things someone says about a politician you don't like.
I'm sensing a little allusion to "Q-Anon' here, or at least to me ^_^
Nah, my dude. Q doesn't show up in Enterprise, not even Q-trying-to-be-anonymous. He's a Next Generation/DS9/Voyager character. :P
@@Marsyas01 Ow..... just.......ow........^_^
If you default to those you disagree with, you're the example.
Exposure, repetition.
23:00
damn, that part about forcing people to talk about stuff to make it seem more important is very familiar with how TERF stuff was suddenly everywhere in the last couple of years in the UK. the government had a consultation about reforming a gender recognition law, and the consultation showed most people didn't mind or would prefer the reforms. but when it was about to pass, a bunch of people kicked the ground and dug their heels in and insisted it was really important to hold off on the reforms because they were so passionate about it, but hadn't responded to the original consultation. and now the situation has exploded into tons of UK celebrities "weighing in" on this (previously extremely minor) piece of legislation.
Equally one might make the observation that the mass adoption of John Money style gender Theory exploded in academia and media as a top down imposition. It was not a common consensus even ten years ago.
@@BobExcalibur this stuff was old school even in 2009, Bob
@@kaitlyn__L Yes; John Money sexually abused the Reimer brothers in the late sixties and codified Gender Theory based on the abuse he inflicted.
The escalation of aggressive Gender Theory advocacy in academia, corporate HR and media organisations to the point where simply stating "a woman is a human with a cervix" is highly controversial is a paradigm that began from 2010 onwards.
One might even observe that it coincided with escalation of racial justice rhetoric and correlated with the end of the Occupy Movement.
Making the underclasses into a house divided is highly beneficial to those above.
As a law enforcement officer, I can tell you that the human mind is VERY hackable.
Yeah, we're all vulnerable. But people decide what they value as a basis for their judgements and opinions. There's a lot of willful ignorance going on. American politics and American conservatives in particular are amazing to observe from the outside.
Chuck: "It's easier to see this dissonance in others than it is to see it within ourselves"
gagaplex: "Yeah but other people do it way more than me". Way to miss the point jackass.
starwarsnerd100
That’s not what they said. Read it again.
Who's they
@@winkles2314 kiwi farms
This is a rather discursive presentation. A condensed, more focused version would have been more compelling.