Chopin Etude Op.10 No.6 WARNING tempo = 69 P. Barton, piano
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Have you heard Chopin's Etude Op.10 No.6 played at Chopin's own metronome marking of dotted crotchet = 69? Here's an experimental
recording I made today which is about 2 or 3 times faster than the tempo we're used to. Here's a recording around the usual slower tempo: • Chopin Etude Op.10 No....
Very interesting. At a slower tempo it is much more melancholic and brooding - but at this tempo, it gains much more anxiety, nervousness, and frustration.
IIRC Chopin wrote only 2 other pieces in E-flat minor both reflecting a similar feeling.
@@mantictac Three others, actually.
Mazurka Op. 6 No. 4
Prelude Op. 28 No. 14
Polonaise Op. 26 No. 2
@@Murcielag0scuro I can't believe I forgot that (probably the Polonaise)
@@mantictac wait there are not more than 4 pieces ? in e flat minor
This piece is best at written tempo like this. A lot of people don't know that the tempo in this performance is at the intended tempo. I love this recording , keep it up!
I've always wondered why so many pianists, while playing the *fast* Chopin Etudes, try to follow these indicated metronome speeds at all costs (with often an unmusical or flawed performance as a result) -- while on the other hand they totally ignore the metronome markings in the *slower* Etudes...there is something peculiar with these indications and I think we should take them with a grain of salt...
***** No joke -- he is just following the "official" metronome marking as published in many editions!
@Brian Donohue Foolish for following Chopin's Tempo ? Ok
@Brian Donohue You're putting words in my mouth . You're the one insulting Barton calling him foolish to follow the composer's marking . In my opinion you can play however you like as long that it sounds nice and ( or ) there are convincing argument to back it up . In Barton's case Chopin's own metronomic marking couldn't be a more convincing argument . If pianist like playing slower tempos of this etude that's perfectly fine by me even if I don't like it . But I wouldn't call them foolish or dumb if I don't like the performance , because that would be pretty egotistical .
@@nihilistlemon1995 I agree with you on this for the most part. The only argument that could work in favor of playing it slowly is if you believe in things like the double beat theory which would make this piece much much slower and more comparable to the way most pianists seem to play it. But if that would be the truth behind it, most of how we play now is wrong. Personally I do believe that in general we play most pieces too fast and there are pieces of evidence available that around the time of Chopins death pianists started to play things faster, this also coincides with the time Liszt decided to quit the stage and why Schumann was so hatefull about the b-minor sonata which was dedicated to him. If you play that sonata at high speeds it is a fugly piece. If you play it at 25% slower than most pianists play it today it is a profound piece of music which fits much better with what we know about Liszts personality.
As such I believe that most of the time a piece written by composers such as Beethoven, Chopin and Liszt tend to be played too fast, but not all composers from that time period apply as Schumann was of the fast school and his tempi need to be fast as that was his intend ... in the end I feel you should play it as you believe it is profound to you. Some might prefer anxious emotions whilst other prefer melancholic. To each their own :)
@Brian Donohue David Stanhope would have to disagree with you, as he amounts the now-commonplace slower performances as akin to "water torture". ruclips.net/video/dB6xAkGjc2Y/видео.html
It's like another composition! I LOVE it now that I can hear the Chopin in it!
I may revisit this composition. With a faster pace it's no longer boring. I love the phrasing and interpretation!
This tempo certainly sounds a lot more like I'd expect a Chopin etude to sound. I very much prefer it.
Although I would prefer a slower tempo, I think this truly may be the tempo Chopin intended.. It is, after all, marked on the paper as such. Not to mention that this etude seems to go on for too long when played at the slower more popular tempo when compared to other etudes.
I agree but I can't do that!
I ever play faster. Harder is play without sheet.
This is very interesting. I think the melodic line in the right hand is much more clear in it's idea when played at this tempo, more cohesive in it's expression. It loses some of the more contemplative mood when played slower but I can "see" where Chopin would have wanted to go with this. Very nice experiment!
Well said. I really enjoyed this performance as well. It's fast, but doesn't sacrifice the music for speed--if anything it adds something by making the melody more clear.
Good point about losing the contemplative mood. It's yet another challenge for the performer, to try to capture that brooding quality at the faster pace.
What a good interpretation and What a rare fingering. Its the secret for that tempo
Ok, I've always used synthesia to look at different classical pieces to see the inner structure of it and every time I play this I have it on 200% so this is really interesting to see it come to life.
So lucky.
What a great artist. I am a beginner piano player or maybe less than that. I wish I could afford a piano teacher. I would give anything to have one piano lesson with you. Regards from Egypt.
6 years later, how ya doin?
The metronomes must have ticked a lot faster back in those days.
You meant slower, since if Chopin said quarter note is 69, and we want it to be slower than at his time it ticked slower..
@@michaelboggio2450 chopin wrote as played. Its DOTTED quarter at 69 so two beats per measure
Win Winters wants to know your location. lol
Not bad at all! Even better than most pianists around. This is such an amazing piece... harmony-wise it's pure magic and speed affects the enjoyment of harmony so deeply. Thanks buddy. May Art be with you forever.
I don't understand the problem some people have with this tempo marking. If the tempo marking is 69 in some editions, then isn't it worth a try to see what was really intended for this piece? Of course some people will either hate it or like it but experimenting is free in music. Also, Beethoven's Sonata op.27 no.2, the first movement was not intended to be as slow as it is played today! (although thanks to people like Schiff that might be changing soon)
Thanks! I've always wondered how the piece would sound played at that speed. You certainly made it work! I don't think it's the only way, but it is one way!
Dotted crotchet = 69 sounds so much better than that slow drawn out tempo which drags on for far too long in my opinion. I think that Op 10 no. 3 is played slightly too slow as well although it's only usually a couple bpm slower so it's not a night and day switch like this piece where it should be twice as fast.
To play it at this tempo and not make it sound harsh I believe is the whole point of this etude. Its done here perfectly. And in Mark Hambourg's recording too.
To me, this etude makes much more sense at this tempo than it does at the usual, slower tempo it is usually performed at. The challenge with this etude is to balance out a melody played with the weak fingers of the hand, with an accompaniment - which must remain in the background throughout - played with the stronger fingers of the hand. To play this at ♩. = 35 pretty much defeats the purpose, in my opinion. Besides, it's very likely that the only real reason people have an adverse reaction to this etude being played at ♩. = 69 is that they've only ever heard it played at half speed!
jr lepage I have yo agree on that. All of chopins etudes (at least in op. 10) do have the objective to improve a certain type of movement of your fingers.
@@carlosmp2043 fingers, wrists, underarm, elbow, upper arm, shoulder, whole body. Playing 10/1 focusing mostly on finger movements is a huge misunderstanding of Chopin's music and technique
well played, good job. the lyrical melody comes out beautifully at this tempo
At last, someone who has read the speed Chopin intended for this piece. I agree with all the other comments here. It adds another dimension.
Yes, thanks! A lament does not need to be depressed. This is an agitated lament, of course. Chopin's tempo only sounds ridiculous to some, because they are so familiar with the fake "profundity". If you've only known pink trees you'll surely throw up when you see a green one.
Love it! Why not? It makes you hear the piece, especially the melody, in a whole new light.
Honestly, I prefer the faster version, but in my opinion, something a tiny bit slower than this will be amazing
check out murray periah's version.
Finally!!! Someone playing this at the correct tempo. There are many clues which point to this tempo IMO, even excluding the tempo marking. The 6/8 time signature makes me think this piece should be felt in 2 pulses per measure. Also, there are much slower tempo markings than andante like grave that Chopin could've used if he wanted a lethargic tempo like many pianists today use.
agree that the 'Andante' probably refers to counting in 'two'
Beautiful! And it makes us remember it was an Etude after all. Hope more virtuosi will play it on this tempo. THANKS!!!
Even at a slower tempo the piece is difficult and challenging.
I partially agree on your comment. Tempo is not marked in stone. In fact, it is the last thing you choose because you need to figure out which is the pace that suits better what you wanna express. This etude becomes dull and boring at a very slow speed. Exaggerated romanticism in Chopin pieces doesn’t suit them, for instance, prelude no 4 is the perfect example.
Now, bringing this etude to the marked speed and preserving a good phrasing and musical ideas is hard. I think it is possible. Different composer, similar situation, Scriabin etude op 8 no 12. I thought impossible to be musical at the marked speed. Several pianists ruin this piece by trying to play it fast, but I found a recording where Scriabin performs it. Possible but extremely hard to accomplish.
Impressive and inspiring, Paul. Thanks for posting.
amazing chops and wonderful expression (even if some frustrated folk are offended by the tempo as always) . Thank you for this. It sounds way more like Chopin and really trains what it was supposed to train
i think this tempo brings the peice to life
This is my favorite piece by Chopin. I prefer the slower tempo.
Have you heard Godowsky's treatment of this étude?
Very interesting. I always wondered why so many pianist play the piece so slow as well. Have you listened to Murray Perahia's recording? He is one of the few that dares to play the etude at this tempo. I personally like the faster tempo. I think the melody speaks much more clearly.
Chopin was known to play lightly. This would give the accompaniment part a nice murmuring sound like in this video. I actually really enjoy it at this tempo. Well done!
Modern performances of this music are far too slow!! It would be fun to see the Godowsky version for left hand played at this speed though..!
So beautifu!!! I want more!!!
The harmonic progression is definitely more prevalent at the higher speed, but I can understand why performers choose the slower tempo, as it definitely is more emotional when played slowly
I love it. It has made me try to learn and play it.
Thank God, finally. This was the most boring etude, until I found out that it was ALWAYS played too slow. At this tempi makes sense, slower is just pretentious emotional crap.
Paul please learn the Godowsky left hand arrangement of this
Love this tempo! So much more restless and emotional than the slow usual pace
Nice, now can you make a video of the Hammerklavier sonata played at Beethoven's tempo marking?
Interesting comment. Egon Petri is supposed to have played Opus 106 (1st mov) half note = 138 but I don't know if he recorded it. Artur Schnabel tries but not quite. This is discussed by Liszt (he should know - Beethoven/Czerny - Liszt insisted on the proper tempo - nobody can do it today.
@@southwestpiano Czerny himself mentioned that the tempo is unusually fast.
It is possible on fortepiano, not on pianoforte. That is, the first pianos before the keyboard became harder
southwestpiano. Beethoven opus 106 first movement.
Egon Petri 10:14
Minkyu Kim 8:38
A. Schnabel 8:49
Levit 9:30
W. Gieseking 8:57
M. Perahia 9:56
Pollini 9:25
Gulda 9:18
M. Korstick 8:58
So, how do you see the whole and double beat discussion? Does it make sense now?
The way it was meant to be heard. So glad people are starting to see the light with this etude.
Best tempo, because it is what Chopin wrote on paper.
isnt it supposed to be 69??
Sounds very scriabinesque
At this tempo, it could be Schubert!
Can u please do 'Bond - Explosive" ?
I truly don’t understand the point of this, unless you want to tackle a different technical problem than the one Chopin intended. Most of the other Etudes in op. 10 are played at a faster tempo. This is not supposed to be one of them.
Wrong. He is following the metronome markings notated by Chopin himself. This is the precise tempo Chopin wanted.
If that’s the case, the majority of professional pianists have been playing it too slow for the last century.
If this is the preferred temp, why is a warning necessary in the title of the video?
@@true_west4704 Yes, that is precisely the case. The majority of pianists have been playing this movement way too slowly (as if it were marked "largo"), most likely due to the emergence of the recording era and the imitation of great pianists who would have played this a lot slower than the intended tempo. Due to this, people have become accustomed to listening to this movement at a much slower tempo (hence the warning label), while Chopin intended a much faster tempo, as shown by his tempo marking "Adante."
Take a listen to Murray Perahia's recording of this etude. He plays it at a much faster speed as well compared to the majority of pianists and it makes a lot more sense at that tempo in my opinion:
ruclips.net/video/aTr6_Walyfo/видео.html&ab_channel=MurrayPerahia-Topic
That is almost a Godowsky!
Way better!!
Devils Trill counterpart?
The Godowsky version is a synthesis of both worlds, it seems. And my favorite version of the two.
Nice
Sounds like a romantic fugue ;)
@@agamaz5650 it has two voices in a way. But it wouldn't be counted as a fugue as the rules of subjects reappearing with inversions and retrogrades aren't there. Chopin did compose a fugue though in A minor but was published posthumously.
Can u do chopin etude op. 25 no. 8 wonter winds?
Winter wind op 25 no 11
Op 25 no 8 would be the sixths etude.
I think you're on to something.
While not MM = 69 the older recordings I've listened to are considerable faster than more modern recordings.
ruclips.net/video/W0vU3aYT8Yg/видео.html
0:38 nice pesante
69th Comment.
I absolutely love this piece, but this is played way too quickly. Interesting though, nice experiment!
I’m 5 years late, but this is not an experiment lol. This is the tempo Chopin indicated.
@@Varooooooom it loses its charm at this speed.
@@cjl328 so the score written originally by Chopin has no charm for you lol?
This is how it is supposed to be played. This is now a Chopin etude and actually has a melody oppose to the slow, boring, and depressing interpretation. I wonder why people started playing it slowly. I'm guessing that a pianist heard another pianist practice the piece slowly, and maybe that other pianist thought it was supposed to be played that way. Who knows.
Ok sorry I comment on the other video that you played to slow. The Godowsky study of this have more feeling!
Ridiculous
The slow tempo is ridiculous and boring. No music.
show us how its done and convince us otherwise, troll
@@UltraLeetJ and you are boring with your stupididity...I ve no time
too fast