Should Sir Ed Davey lose his knighthood over role in Post Office scandal? | LBC debate
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- Опубликовано: 9 янв 2024
- Nick Ferrari asks callers and former chancellor Nadhim Zahawi whether Sir Ed Davey should have his knighthood removed for his role in the Horizon-Post Office scandal. The Liberal Democrat leader served as postal affairs minister under the coalition government from 2010-2012.
Sir Ed has previously admitted he should have done more to prevent the Horizon scandal, which saw hundreds of sub-postmasters wrongly convicted. But he told LBC that ministers from all political parties had been misled by Post Office officials.
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She took 5 million pounds while being fully aware that innocent people were being imprisoned. She should give back each and every penny.
not forgetting the interest..
To those people (or in the case of the deceased, their family) specifically
And a prison sentence
She should be severely punished. I find the lack of justice in this country very disturbing.
While in prison.
Ferrari is worried about the wrong children. It's the children of the 700 people who had their lives ruined by the malicious incompetence of the prosecutors who deserve sympathy.
Well said
Just because one group of children have been persecuted doesn’t mean Vennells family deserve it too!!!
This situation is a perfect example of how the class system works in Britain. If you are a working person, a Sub Postmaster for example and their are errors within your accounts, you are forced to shut your own shop, are then taken away, locked in a room for hours on end, with no food or water, then questioned/ investigated by the Post Offices own Pseudo Gestapo. Finally you’re prosecuted in an illegal manner as the Prosecution (Post Office) refuses to disclose evidence and blackmailed into pleading guilty to a lesser charge, as there is no evidence for an adequate defence. If you don’t submit then additional charges are added. Now compare that to the treatment of an M.P. who fiddled their expenses, or a Chief Executive who lied to Parliament or even a Prince accused of sleeping with underage girls. Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, except some (those with money and influence) are far more equal than others.
Is it really surprising though? Britain is one of the most unequal countries in the developed world. Aristocrats and their political arm- the Tory party- have run these shores for 80 of the last 123 years. If you really want to be pendantic and go further back, see our history of how criminals were treated hence, penal colonies. What's going on now is simply a modern version of how it's always been done.
All are equal...but some are more equal than others.
You have got the perfect example in this clip. Someone who quit because they clearly breached the Ministerial Code by not declaring their tax affairs where he was investigated by HMRC is pronouncing on the whether another former minister should lose his knighthood because of the post office scandal.
I am i going to far to call for nick ferrari to sacked.ed davy a knighthood is a joke to
I couldn't of wrote it better. This is exactly my thoughts!
Yes, I expect it is rough on any grandchildren and adult children she may have. I expect watching Grandma and Granddad go to prison, convicted of theft was rough for the children and grandchildren of innocent postmasters, too.
They should ALL be held accountable and many jailed!
Its a bit rich having someone as dodgy as Zahawi answering questions ffs!
He is provenly dodgy
Proven criminal
Zahawi has no room to talk. He should have been expelled from the house for tax evasion.
unbelievable
Problem is they'd have to do the same to Cameron, Drax, Mogg, Sunak, Brady etc etc. All tax dodgers
@@blazzz13WTF, people have been driven in mental breakdowns and suicide.
100,000%
Should Sir Ed Davey resign? Yes he should.
No he shouldn't.
Alan Bates has even said that Davey couldn't have done more to quicken the justice for these postmasters. So why should he resign for not being able to do the impossible?
Why just him, he try to help. Why should he resign become he as they only who at least tried!
You’re falling for Tori spin!
The Honours system is meant to celebrate those people who have acted honourably for the betterment of all. I think the honours system is now so corrupt as to be meaningless, it is cronyism at its worst. No wonder Alan Bates refused to accept an OBE. Any truthful man or woman relies on their own conscience whether to accept any honours.
Totally agree the honour system is a total farce
These people have no conscience, and this Government have only responded because of a TV program and it is election year. How are we expected to have any faith or trust in such corrupt individuals /@@apiscator444
Alan Bates didn't need an award to gather dust on the mantlepiece. Maybe he just wants to rest now.
Asking Zahawi about a scandal? I know Ferrari is a shameless tory shill but come on.
tax! what tax? It was an oversight etc. blah blah. But yes Ferrari has no shame and is indeed a shill
Woke Tory have you seen him on tv.
Is this satire? Zahawi, a poster boy for Tory corruption, being asked for his views on this scandal? What next, Gary Glitter pontificating on children’s safety???
Exactly, what are LBC doing?
I noticed Zahawi slipped in her ear chancellor there as well, only for a few days mate. He shamelessly accepted the position and then when it was clear Johnson couldn't even form a cabinet, then he resigned.
You couldnt make it up
Absolutely 💯% Ed Davey must resign!
Resign? He should be arrested!
So should every Post Office Minister who came after Davey and obviously knew even more of the details as time passed.
@@fricozoid1and Davey did he was the first one who did
@@edwardguest1404 yes I meant including Davey and every single one that came after him too.
Tony Blair is a person of faith - should we trust him as well?
Being a person of faith doesn't make you a saint!
Nick, it’s not personal. These people were suspended without pay pending investigation. The same thing should happen to all the top executives, they should then face trial and depending on the result prison. The post office got very personal. The impact on families alone will last a lifetime. Time for them to feel the fear they put post office people through.
Totally agree. In most other situations anyone who is even suspected of wrongdoing is automatically suspended. But it appears there is a two tier system of justice in this country. Some people are too rich, or maybe too close to the levers of government, to face the same 'justice' they have meted out to others.
@@mollienight I thought the rule had changed now, in most cases whilst being investigated full pay is I think more common now. Purely because you’re innocent until proven guilty. But the old ways still hung around like a post office like a bad smell. I know it’s normal to be suspended, but I thought it now had to be on full pay pending investigation in most circumstances. Could be wrong here though.
@@simonk8270 Suspended on full pay whilst being investigated may be the just way to proceed, but how many sub postmasters were treated justly whilst no forensic investigation was being pursued, and as it turns out, there was a massive cronyism in the cover-up. We have a two-tier legal system based on how rich and powerful you are.
@@mollienight yes things need to change. Sadly it takes a shocking injustice like this to bring it to light.
@@simonk8270 That may be the case for the employed, but postmasters are generally under contract on a self-employed basis, so no work = no pay.
What a great get out of jail free card losing the rewards they were never worthy of in the first place would be. No. These people should be held accountable on a what they knew and didn't act on basis. Or what they covered up.
Zahawi was sacked for not declaring his yax affairs and then lying to the PM and Parliament. Yet, here he is having an opinion on other peoples' behaviour. There have been 15 Ministers for the PO. What about them?
Everyone that has been part of this MUST BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE otherwise we will have no faith in anything. That in it's self is a very dangerous position to be left with.
Sorry people were stripped of their lives livelyhood, reputations untold grief and anxiety for doing their job Shame on those who allowed the coverup
The question should have been..... if hundreds of postmasters are supposedly stealing hundreds of thousands of pounds, why are there no records of money actually being absent from the system.
Fujitsu had EVERY keystroke logged.
Not sure you understand how computer accountancy works.
@@csharpe5787He does not even know how Computer Programming works!
What are you talking about? Money being absent as per the system is what made it look like money was missing?!
No only should he lose his knighthood, he should be jailed for corruption in public office.
Ridiculous comment.
@@alan_davis that's the beauty of the platform; it all means.......
This is not a scandal to be judged in the court of public opinion. There should be no place for discussion. If the police and the PPS judge there is a case for a hearing at the Old Bailey, then that is what should happen - and in quick order. If subsequently adjudged guilty of any crimes, all involved should automatically lose all honours and serve their sentence(s) as prescribed by the judge and jury. That's what these people are paid with my hard earned cash for. End of.
I hope that the disgraced Mr.Zahawi makes sure that if he received any payment for his brief appearance ( as himself !) in the TV drama that
he makes sure he includes the payment on his tax return
Calm down ffs
It's about him washing his reputation, he's desperate to come back. And LBC are helping him here.
"He called for the resignation of 'prominent people' who have made mistakes." Lee 30p Anderson
Example of a mistake: Zahawi failed to declare the HMRC investigation to his permanent secretary, and failed to disclose it in his ministerial declaration of interests. He also failed to disclose it to Prime Ministers Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak. In July 2022, Zahawi had said publicly "There have been news stories over the last few days which are inaccurate, unfair and are clearly smears." He did not correct this until January 2023. Magnus found this "inconsistent with the requirement for openness" on ministers.
0:16 "she is a person of faith... So she'll know that she has let a lot of people down..."
I'm assuming that she was a person of faith throughout this, and not just a recent "born-again" believer.
Whatever her faith is, it allowed her to act in such a way that was acceptable to her religious conscience at the time. Using "faith" as a positive term for her character, but only meaning at the present moment, when she is feeling regret, is absurd.
It's very simple, I am actually not bothered about Paula's money as long as justice is served and she goes to prison along with a few others and justice is done. I want to live in a fair society, where everybody gets fair justice including an awful lot of people who ran post offices. She must be held accountable for her actions.
You can’t put people in prison for been bad at their job catch on
@@timcomley5948 People making accountancy mistakes often go to jail , i'm sure being poor at their job isn't a form of defence .
Perhaps you need to catch on , we now know bonuses were paid to those investigating , we also know they knew the computer programme was flawed yet did not inform Judges of this . This was corruption of the highest order and that is an imprisonable offence.
This women is so guilty of condoning a totally unlawful vendetta against her own employees that prison is the only acceptable outcome. @@timcomley5948
Zahawi - deflection, deflection, deflection - the same will be said on Question Time tomorrow night by the representative Conservative MP!
It’s called holding people to account, even if they have left the post years before. Pension and bonus’s paid in post should be recouped.
So what about all the other ministers as well or is just Ed Davey who is scapegoated, Btw who give that woman the CBE, oh i forgot yes it was The government.
If Davey should resign then so should every Tory minister who followed and obviously knew MORE of the details as the truth came out. Do you agree eyespy743?
She got 5 million overseeing a Post Office that’s rotten to a core. Then she falls into a high profile job looking after us lol
Doesn't take too long before Ferrari says " think of the Children " defence .
Yes, but not the Palestinian ones!
She did not investigate despite knowing there was problems, she did not think how personal it was getting for the post masters but was quite happy to take money and awards, great example for the clergy!
And this horrible woman was put forward for the bishop of London absolutely shameful
I don’t understand how no red flags were acted upon with this scandal. That no suspicions were raised. Management or board of directors should have been suspect over the number of cases that occurred. Ed Davey should definitely be made to resign as a knight of the realm, as he disgustingly ignored all the poor people affected by this scandal. Get rid of Ed Davey an other heads should roll over this disgusting matter!!! People have suffered enough !!!
You can’t carp on about wanting 30 odd other people to lose their jobs and then be an utter hypocrite. He has to lose his knighthood and should immediately stand down and seek re-election.
As should every other Minister covering the Post Office who followed Davey, who inevitably one even more of the truth.
Ask Mr Bates - he said that Ed Davey, whilst in office, was very sympathetic and was the first to initiate talks with the PO once he heard of the concerns - which is more than most did whilst in the same office. This is just tory deflection....
Totally .
Bates wrote to Davey five times and then told Davey that he would refuse to continue with him. Bates knew that Davey would never investigate his own department.
@@mollienight Bates wrote to Davey once at the start of his period as minister and Davey didn't meet him. This was literally within the first 2 weeks of his time as minister. And then a short number of months later he did meet with Bates, unlike any minister previously.
@@thesmity31 During that time Davey attended several meetings with the PO board, just one meeting with Bates. Tells me he didn't consider Bates to be a priority or worthy of investigation.
@@mollienight Surely the PO was the one he would've needed to be investigating, and therefore meeting them more and asking more questions of them...
It would be weird to be investigating Bates when the PO and their horizon system were the suspicious things...
Just unbelievable .... that is an organised crime on the top top level ...small people are absolutely helpless 😢😢😢 what they have been through and as it turns out somebody get 40% bonus from each case...
Why didnt anyone pick up on the fact that so many postmasters & postwomen were supposedly missing money ! Why ! Common sense should of kicked in & said this cant be right .
Her single bonus is 66 x what they are offering each Sub postmaster in compensation, for ripping their lives apart. Yes she should give it back, and more. She should be prosecuted.
If you want to go down the road of sacking people who were in government during the scandal, you’d have to include the then PM and current foreign secretary, “Lord” David Cameron…
Does being " a person of faith" give you moral fibre ? Not necessarily.
No….think of all the nuns & priests who have done wrong
@@nannieg7622exactly
Zahawi needs to calm down. He had plenty of time to do something about it; 3 minutes of ITV screen time and he thinks he's Superman.
Also, why hasnt Ferrari been covering it, rather than constantly banging on about cycle lanes, 'wokeness' and all the rest of the usual right wing guff? It's too easy to be outraged when it pays, isn't it?
Absolutely it is despicable after all this human suffering.
Nick, with reference to your "you should always think about the kids", was any thought put into the children and family of the post office workers that were jailed and/or rendered bankrupt? Should she give all the money back? No, she should be locked up in prison along with anyone else complicit in this. Fijitsu will more than likely blame it on a human error. Even if there are still bugs in the software, there should be a human safeguard to do manual checks to ensure what the software reports is correct. I find it very hard to believe that task was undertaken here.
I'm comparing oranges to apples a litlte here, but look at the Lucy Letby scandal. Doctors and nurses reported her behavior and were shutdown with threats of being sacked. Once the lid couldn't be kept on it, people were looking for justice. Notice that's all gone quiet now? The board should have been jailed.
A similar issue here where a software tech guy examined the logs of the Horizon system and noticed issues in the log files. He flagged this and was shutdown and eventually sacked.
Giving the workers some financial compensation is a start I guess, but it's not going to bring back the time lost in prison and/or doing community service. I'm not big on the Bible, but an eye for an eye works well here.
These issues are going to hang on politicians like the Rime of the Ancient Mariner come the election period and they aren’t going to make it go away.
I firmly believe the concept of a full time politician should be abolished or at least severely diminished. This is why most of them are so out of touch with communities and have faux concern over the struggles of ordinary people.
When a software system reports something that could result in time in prison or a severe financial penalty, there should be a human safe guard to audit those findings. In this case, these people were too thick to care or apply due dilligence.
my son's colleague discovered the flaw in the Horizon system when they were doing some work for the Post Office. His Company Director reported it to the Post Office, I think it was 2016 and they had to investigate
Not Ed Davey, not Paula Vennels - all of them. There have been several ministers during the last twenty years with responsibilities for the Post Office - all of them should lose any honours they have been given. Fair is fair.
Too personal! Ask the families who lost loved ones! Ask the postmasters who's lives were ruined. Are you serious!
Should be jailed for dereliction of duty. They adore the big bucks and being top of the pile. So when things go wrong on their watch they have to pay the price.
Unbelievable this is even a question if it was sunak or boris involved in the post office scandal they would of been hung , drawn and quartered by the media and public by now not asking if it’s fair they get a proportion of the blame or not
Is it getting a little to personal on Vennels, so why not shift the blame to Ed Davey instead! Ferrari surely has taken the Tory brief to heart on this story!
The focus on Ed Davey is a complete joke to be frank. He was the first minister to actually meet with postmasters about this issue. Alan Bates has said himself that Davey couldn't have done any more than he did to help the postmasters because of the scale of the PO's cover up, and that it is wrong to focus so much on him.
People such as Ferrari and Zahawi are just using Davey as a distraction away from the failure of his Tory mates, and Labour are happy for him to do so too because it takes focus away from the 10 years' worth of labour ministers that were in charge during this period.
Could not agree more .
Sunak has a lot to answer for as Chancellor in this case .
Davey refused to challenge his own department and he also received £275,000 from the lawyers who were persecuting the PO victims, a clear conflict of interest. Davey has to give up his knighthood, his position is untenable.
@@mollienight Davey's work with that law firm was entirely regarding energy and climate policy, and is all fully declared in the MP's register of interests. He was working with them years before the post office became one of thousands of clients of theirs, and stopped working with them shortly aftern then.
All you've shown here is your willingness to buy into Tory attack lines without even the most basic level of scrutiny. Stop believing what they tell you.
@@thesmity31 Thank you for confirming that there was a conflict of interest if indeed Davey had been accepting fees from the law firm that was actively persecuting PO victims, before he was minister for PO affairs.
Yes he probably should.
All honours and bonuses awarded to ANYONE involved in running the post office should he recinded.
This is a deflection from the fact the government did nothing. The government awarded 3.6 bn of contracts to Fujitsu.
"Is it too personal" he asks. Ask the 700+ victims of PO corruption and incompetence whether its too personal! Time to drill down and identify those responsible and name names.
Surprised those in charge haven’t been given big bonuses. Thats how this usually works.
And you’d know 🙄
And, if the Post Office re-couped money that was not missing - what happened to it? And why did an audit not notice a large tranche of extra money. Reptile fund?
It’s the usual mix of incompetence & ppl failing upwards. We’ve seen this story before & we’ll see it again because….politics.
Why think of her children they will of reaped the benefits of her cheating and blatant lying ways
I don’t know how she dare put her feet inside a church let alone wear a collar I’m surprised any of them involved can sleep at night for Guilt
Why should Sir Ed Davie resign, there are plenty of politicians that I’ve had their hands all over this ,not just him!
The PO pursued a war of attrition against postmasters, about 900 according to some sources, whose lives were completely shredded. Yes there are others who are culpable, Davey should accept his fate as a start. Just because there are others doesn't mean we should give Davey a free pass. Your argument defies logic.
@@mollienight they’re risking doing the same to him as what happened to the postmaster.
Becauce csharpe5787 he was the postal minister and ignored his constituent who was a postmaster.your obviously not the sharpest tool in the box
Why did he get money from the legal firm who prosecuted the people?
@@michaelmcginley7930was he the only minister who oversaw the Post Office during the scandal?
Ran the Treasury whilst fiddling his taxes. He glossed over that...
It's not nearly personal enough mate. She should be hauled in front of the king to explain her actions on live television
5 million quid . Its an obscence amount of money . She should definately return this money .
Scrap knighthoods,damehoods ,obe cbe medals etc. People do jobs,get paid and get a pension ( if lucky) what more do they need?
Edd Davy was taking 5k a month from the same law firm representing the post office.
FFS do these people have no shame.
This scandal just keeps giving.
Only if the other 8 Tory post office ministers are also punished..
How come only concern when it is not a brexiteer conservative ? If Ed Davey
was a Conservative, Brexiteer he would
be hounded , driven out of his job!
All should be jailed anyone covering it up and anyone that we're in power.
These honours are given to slimy people who do as they are told by the establishment civil service and yes they all need to have these honours removed who were involved in this and illegal wars ⚠️
Yes. He wanted others sacked
.Has no credibility.. A Remainer. They dont have any.
Innocent people were spat at innthe street for crimes made up by the post office she ran.
Define "Too personal" in that context
The executives of the post office, fujitsu & MPs should be prosecuted. It can't be one rule for us and another for them anymore! We can't continue to stand for people swerving accountability just because they have more money than the majority of hard-working people in this country. Justice is supposed to be fair. Having zahawi on is ridiculous. He should be in prison for tax evasion and fraud. A regular person would be in prison for what he did. I think alot of us are sick of the double standards and this is exactly what this case highlights.
They are all "sorry" when they are caught. In this case, caught in the blistering glare of public opinion.
The "honours" system should be scrapped without delay!!
What about the children & grandchildren of the wrongly labeled sub postmasters.
I'm puzzled at why he was given a nighthood in the first place. I'd be surprised if the taxpayers don't end up footing the bill.
Ferarri, a tory stooge, talking about matters getting personal with regards to the Post Office scandal, but was prepared to look at Partygate as colleagues having a harmless drink at their place of work.. 👎👎👎
The worrying bit is the government will try to use this scandal to deflect from the inability to sort the Boats and Rwanda.
The whole issue is an indicator to the criminal activity or inefficiency of government, civil service and major industry.
It is time to empty the the cess pit we know as Westminster.
Yep, Lucy Letby scandal, Rwanda and now the PO scandal. Rishi must be loving all these distractions, but the coverups, smoke and mirrors will catch up during election season.
She has sealed her-own legacy as the person who collapsed Royal Mail.
We need to have a clear out of these MP s. And get some decent ines in . Straight honest no lies etc . If they do wrong sack them and made accountable
he should be JAILED !!! and SUED to the absolute limit !!!
This IS personal, people did it and those guilty people are getting away with paying the victims with other peoples money and not jail time.
At this rate, Ed Davids is going to have the same mistreatment as the postmasters did. How does that help them?
Davey had two years to find out what was going on. He asked the wrong questions and listened to the wrong answers. This is incompetence. He must resign
The bonuses were unjustified,
Earned on false, corrupt information which should be taken back and given to the victims from whom it was stolen. Charges of corruption should follow and if found guilty should be jailed, which is what happened to many of the victims.
Mr Zahawi should definitely be jailed for his tax dodging.
Why is it whenever any government minister or department,ex or current they always but always say "Lessons must be learned" but they never are.Its just an excuse.
He should lose his knighthood and resign
Bit the only real way to punish him is take his money and use it to compensate victims.
She should be jailed if she knew people were being incarcerated and knew there was bugs in the system.
Why didnt the question get asked at the time??????
We shall also be naming all the Tory MPs who have been minister of the Post office over the last 13 years
He should never have had a Knighthood in the first place. What did he do to deserve it ?
This shouldn't even be a question, many peoples lives were ruined. Britain (especially England) need to get rid of classism, people with power or who belong in certain circles of society get away with too much.
'They' soon put the innocent postmaster and woman in prison,why are these dreadful items now in prison and their homes and savings taken off them,make an example to try and putting right
She should give it all back. People lost their lives for God's sake!!
'Sir' Ed Davey has NEVER EVER responded to local issues we have on our estate in Kingston.. We can only conclude that he does not give a fig about his constiuents !!!..or not ??
Of course Paula Venells should pay the bonuses she was improperly given. I can see no reason she should not spend time in prison as a token for the lives she destroyed.
Time for Paula to realise she no longer walks on water.
If the blame game takes off, the Lords will be emptied in a couple of months as most of them will have made a mistake or two. I am not particularly fond of current politics, neither do I care for the revolving door installing sycophants in the Lords.
This is Grenfell, all over again, how many times is this going to continue?
Take the knighthood away from him. End of story !!!
Nadhim Zahawi is speaking now with hinsight. This depite being in a govenment that had ministers braking ministerial codes wily nily and yet staying on or being brought back. Partyed while over hundreds of thousands of our loveed ones died. Looked after their mates and nom doms, getting rich on 2nd jobs while a cost of living crises ravaged the country, cash for honors/questions. Does he or any Tory minister believe they wouldn't have acted the same way. Any one in politics Zahawi or Farage would have done the same. They are all hypocrits and unworthy to serve our great nation.
Personal! Really … ask the postmasters who lost thier lives imprisoned etc .. lost ALL and everything.. and yes ED Davis needs to lose his knighthood .. ALL ministers need to be less corrupt and do their jobs!!!!
Ferrari suggested fining the non vxd £100 for refusing the medical treatment that was neither safe not effective!!! How much was he paid by Big Pharm4????
The former head of HRMC who "forgot " to declare his own tax, all the theifs.
"you always have to think of the children"
Definitely NOT
They dont come into this, in the same way that they didnt come into it when there were suicides, attempted suicides, divorces, bankruptcies and all types of disasters that affected these wretched poor folk.
NO WAY.