With the title of the video, I was expecting to hear some discussion of the metallurgical differences between Chrome Molybdenum and Chrome Vanadium, carbon content of each type of alloy, etc... I clearly misunderstood the title, as it appears the intent was to compare different brands of sockets. I respect the effort, but I would have titled the video differently.
Its fantastic to hear a fellow engineer saying these things. A lot of people who have no business speaking about these topics spread a lot of bad information. Keep up the work
Thank you for doing a video like this. I wasn't sure which one was which. This has helped me to understand which one I need or is needed for specific jobs.
This was very informative. I don't rely on tools like these for professional purposes, I am a "DIYer" who usually buys the cheapest tools as needed per project from Harbor Freight, but as I get older I'm tired of cheaper tools failing on me, and filling up my toolbox with cheap clutter.
When you see tools and chrome vanadium sign on it go away from that like it is plague on it!! I have tools like that and its good only for something on lowest level and of course not everyday work!! I use it on fckn unscrew of tire bolts and it just bend or start to slips and other shits
I agree with you, everyone should buy the best tools they can. Defining that is a bit complex, and different for everyone. But, still, definitely pursue the best tools you can. This is a great video. I remember reading numerous times while studying the history of tool companies, around 1915-1925 several companies were advancing the use of vanadium in their alloys. One of the biggest reasons was manufacturing efficiency. By using vanadium, the tools could be drop forged in one operation and achieve the strength and ductile performance that was needed. Tool companies that were hand forging, using power hammers that needed repeated blows to produce the shapes of various tools found vanadium would be brittle and more difficult to work. They stayed with chrome moly alloys longer. By the late 1930s the biggest companies in tool making had very advanced drop forging capabilities and highly refined alloys to match. The tools produced by all of these companies were outstanding, and in many respects what is manufactured today is little different from what was made just prior to WW II.
I’ve had a little obsession with impact sockets as of late and I have many many different brands of sockets. My favorites as of late are Williams USA impact sockets, owned by snap in and identical for way less money. I got a weird obsession with the wear pattern impact sockets get when using an impact wrench and I like the wear pattern on my Williams, sk, and proto sockets make. I just purchased a set of tekton sockets and I got extreme ocd because I’ve had chrome vanadium impact sockets in the past and the wear pattern is too subtle and I don’t like it.
Opinion, theory and chemistry all good for forming MORE opinions, but socket designs and QC issues from raw materials to finished product all wildcards. I would love to see some head to head challenges between impact sockets, especially Cr-Mo vs. Cr-V to failure. Let's see which camp is last one standing.
Is it possible that either chrome vanadium or chrome moly alloy steels could get the final hardness based on tempering temperature and either one of these alloys could end up with higher hardness? Do you think the carbon % in the alloy has anything to do with the final hardness? The impact rated sockets are definitely tempered to a higher temperature to result in lower hardness and higher ductility.
I think both steels receiving their hardness values during the final heat treatment. Tempering has a major impact on UTS and Ductility as we know. Both Cr-V and Cr-Mo have around .4 to .5% carbon. Carbon does improve hardness and strength, but at higher levels, will impact ductility, resulting in embrittlement. The final anneal/heat treatment will soften the steel, thus achieving lower hardness, and higher ductility, which is what we find in Cr-Mo impact grade material. I strongly believe all manufacturers, including Snap-on, Wright etc., start out with similar chemistry, then through a specialized process of process anneals and tempering, they’re able to improve the alloy chemistry just enough to differentiate from their closest competitors. I still have not figured out what the higher-end brands have rust issues within their line of impact grade sockets…
S2 steel is tougher and more expensive than regular Chrome Vanadium steel. Chrome Molybdenum Steel - the highest quality and the most expensive grade of steel in tools, Strong & also Flex, Use in heavy-duty application such as prybars, punches ,Impact sockets or anything that require more torque!
Good information MTR - you mentioned Tekton - I was thinking of getting their screwdriver set. I've always liked square handles like the old Macs and they're made in USA - not to pricey either. Keep up the good work :)
Little fun fact..ICON chrome sockets are made from crome-moly..also BROACHiNG is NOT the side walls, or side contact lol..broaching is the shelf that holds the nut or bolt head ahallow like snap on icons always are aggressively braoched..that Wright tools socket definitely goin to have the nut/bolt stuck deep into th socketbl for sure..zero broaching on it
Coming here hoping to learn the difference between Cr-V vs Cr-Moly, leaving here learnt that "The Chinese are known for stealing designs. They are not a very creative culture. " @ 5:55. ;)
Clay (KoonTrucking) said The new HarborFreight ICON sockets are supposed to be now be chrome moly. In his new video on the re-release of their 3/8 flex head ICON ratchets.
I’m not sure about that. I’ve heard the same, but I’m not sure the logic of offering Cr-Mo in chrome. They should be Cr-V, so I need to investigate more I guess…!
@@MidwestToolReview since you have the older ones you should be able to do a good back to back. And you know just the words Harbor Freight are basically click bait all by itself. Haha, So the video should pay back more than it costs to make. You just gotta locate them, because I would believe that they let the first ones on the selves.
@@MidwestToolReview the only thing I can come up with is that because everyone kept using impact drivers. Then most said “I’m going to use whatever socket is next to me, even if it is a chrome.” So this is the response to their recommendations made by the testers. (Just a theory)
I prefer Cr-Mo as it is preferred for impact guns. Although I don’t believe Cr-V will crack due to its wall thickness, I do believe it may be a little harder on your impact gun, due to energy disposition. Harder materials transfer energy throughout the gun, whereas softer materials will absorb some of that energy, which results in reduced wear on the internals of the gun.
@@MidwestToolReviewI just got 2 3/8” & 1/2” Master Sets from Tekton for $475 total of 159 Pieces and this discovery about them using Chrome Vanadium is driving my OCD nuts. I hate the feeling that I might have an inferior or not standard product when I paid a decent amount of money….I think I’m gonna return these and go with CR-M from Sunex. Any advise in this? Thanks in advance!
@@DownloaderVideosame here man! I have an obsession with the wear patterns on my impact sockets as I like the worn out look. Cr-mo wear patterns look pretty to me and whatever steel they use on wright, proto, sk, and Williams look pleasing to my eye. I’ve had a cheap set of impact sockets made of cr-v and the wear pattern took longer to appear and doesn’t look as pleasing to my eye.
You said that they don't innovate, but they produced a lot of things for the USA military, especially the lights and some CPU and things like that. Common man, you can be USA all the way without investigating a little bit, btw. China and Taiwan are not the same, china is trying to get down Taiwan, because China doesn't like them to get out of their control, you can't be that hard with them if you don't know them.
I know all to well about manufacturing in China, Taiwan, etc. I’ve been in Engineering since 2001, and I’ve worked on everything from plastic cups to aircraft for consumer and military/government. Unfortunately I stand by my position that they are not innovative, and you have to understand their is a difference between producing goods and designing goods for the US. Keep in mind, the US reached out to China to design a CPU for our F22 stealth fighters, and they installed malware which allowed them to download the flight data so that they could use it to develop their own fighter. This is also the same country that couldn’t design and build their own commercial jetliners, so they purchased a Airbus A320 and reverse-engineered it and came out with what they call the Comac C919, which is nothing more than a copy-cat of another country’s design. Sorry, but had you done your homework, you’d know better than to challenge me on this!!
I'm not challenging you sir, and I can say you are pretty good and well prepared man, but even though you are an expert in this, you shouldn't act so high, I mean, if you know at lot isn't it better to explain more in your videos than just a comment? Yes, I have learn my lesson, but are you willing to show the people around your channel what you know? Or just teach a lesson to a less prepared young man? And, a lot of people can be little prepared or don't know about this kind of things, just repeat, you should show them too what it's the correct way and saying why, and I have not a desire to discuss more, I know I lose this, but, are you losing what's important in your videos? Or what could help others?
Because you don't have access does not mean it does not exist and is no reason to over simplify a complex subject. Opinions without facts are of no value.
Not much of value in this video. It doesn't recognize the difference of processes, production or much of anything else but personal opinion of varying degree of validity. No science involved. No metallurgy involved.
Read a book…not much difference between Cr-Mo and Cr-V… the difference exists within each manufacturer’s heat treatment process, to which is considered “proprietary” therefore I don’t have access to that information…
Have you ever planned what you are going to say so you speak in a continuing cadence? Your stop and start speaking is very annoying. 27 minutes to finally tell us which is better and why. You lost me by 10 minutes.... Yes, you were not ready.
With the title of the video, I was expecting to hear some discussion of the metallurgical differences between Chrome Molybdenum and Chrome Vanadium, carbon content of each type of alloy, etc... I clearly misunderstood the title, as it appears the intent was to compare different brands of sockets. I respect the effort, but I would have titled the video differently.
Its fantastic to hear a fellow engineer saying these things. A lot of people who have no business speaking about these topics spread a lot of bad information. Keep up the work
Thank you for doing a video like this. I wasn't sure which one was which. This has helped me to understand which one I need or is needed for specific jobs.
Glad to see your post and more uploads coming 👍🏻
I make sure that all my impact sockets are cro moly and my chrome sockets are vanadium awesome video 👍👍👍👍
This was very informative. I don't rely on tools like these for professional purposes, I am a "DIYer" who usually buys the cheapest tools as needed per project from Harbor Freight, but as I get older I'm tired of cheaper tools failing on me, and filling up my toolbox with cheap clutter.
very interesting on the steel of the different sockets nice job!
Hey James, you should do more of these Investigative Comparison type videos! They are great, because the Watchers Love Learnin'! 🔨👍😁👍🔧
I couldn’t agree more 👍👍👍👍
When you see tools and chrome vanadium sign on it go away from that like it is plague on it!! I have tools like that and its good only for something on lowest level and of course not everyday work!! I use it on fckn unscrew of tire bolts and it just bend or start to slips and other shits
Grey Pnuematic,Sunex and the Pittsburgh Pro impact sockets are made out of Chrome Moly steel.
I agree with you, everyone should buy the best tools they can. Defining that is a bit complex, and different for everyone. But, still, definitely pursue the best tools you can.
This is a great video. I remember reading numerous times while studying the history of tool companies, around 1915-1925 several companies were advancing the use of vanadium in their alloys. One of the biggest reasons was manufacturing efficiency. By using vanadium, the tools could be drop forged in one operation and achieve the strength and ductile performance that was needed. Tool companies that were hand forging, using power hammers that needed repeated blows to produce the shapes of various tools found vanadium would be brittle and more difficult to work. They stayed with chrome moly alloys longer. By the late 1930s the biggest companies in tool making had very advanced drop forging capabilities and highly refined alloys to match. The tools produced by all of these companies were outstanding, and in many respects what is manufactured today is little different from what was made just prior to WW II.
I’ve had a little obsession with impact sockets as of late and I have many many different brands of sockets. My favorites as of late are Williams USA impact sockets, owned by snap in and identical for way less money. I got a weird obsession with the wear pattern impact sockets get when using an impact wrench and I like the wear pattern on my Williams, sk, and proto sockets make. I just purchased a set of tekton sockets and I got extreme ocd because I’ve had chrome vanadium impact sockets in the past and the wear pattern is too subtle and I don’t like it.
I’m like you; I don’t like the excessive deformation that occurs on the anvil end of the impact socket. I’ve had great success with Wright and Mac
My personal opinion I think snap on should have don’t the FDX sockets for impact use
Opinion, theory and chemistry all good for forming MORE opinions, but socket designs and QC issues from raw materials to finished product all wildcards. I would love to see some head to head challenges between impact sockets, especially Cr-Mo vs. Cr-V to failure. Let's see which camp is last one standing.
Which chrome socket brand is best?
There are chroom venadium socket sets with the exact same parts with the difference 300 euro... so how can you recognise/ determine the better quality
Interested to see how the new icon sockets improve with the change to moly. Hopefully the complaints of softness go away
I just bought a set. We'll see.
@@smitty54017 yea man. Good luck. My og set is still going strong
my snap on 17 deep impact socket is deforming and sucks. what metal do they use?
This was an awesome video! Definitely very informative!!
Is it possible that either chrome vanadium or chrome moly alloy steels could get the final hardness based on tempering temperature and either one of these alloys could end up with higher hardness? Do you think the carbon % in the alloy has anything to do with the final hardness? The impact rated sockets are definitely tempered to a higher temperature to result in lower hardness and higher ductility.
I think both steels receiving their hardness values during the final heat treatment. Tempering has a major impact on UTS and Ductility as we know. Both Cr-V and Cr-Mo have around .4 to .5% carbon. Carbon does improve hardness and strength, but at higher levels, will impact ductility, resulting in embrittlement. The final anneal/heat treatment will soften the steel, thus achieving lower hardness, and higher ductility, which is what we find in Cr-Mo impact grade material. I strongly believe all manufacturers, including Snap-on, Wright etc., start out with similar chemistry, then through a specialized process of process anneals and tempering, they’re able to improve the alloy chemistry just enough to differentiate from their closest competitors. I still have not figured out what the higher-end brands have rust issues within their line of impact grade sockets…
S2 steel is tougher and more expensive than regular Chrome Vanadium steel. Chrome Molybdenum Steel - the highest quality and the most expensive grade of steel in tools, Strong & also Flex, Use in heavy-duty application such as prybars, punches ,Impact sockets or anything that require more torque!
Good information MTR - you mentioned Tekton - I was thinking of getting their screwdriver set. I've always liked square handles like the old Macs and they're made in USA - not to pricey either. Keep up the good work :)
Little fun fact..ICON chrome sockets are made from crome-moly..also BROACHiNG is NOT the side walls, or side contact lol..broaching is the shelf that holds the nut or bolt head ahallow like snap on icons always are aggressively braoched..that Wright tools socket definitely goin to have the nut/bolt stuck deep into th socketbl for sure..zero broaching on it
Lol….
Nice video, thank you!
Coming here hoping to learn the difference between Cr-V vs Cr-Moly, leaving here learnt that "The Chinese are known for stealing designs. They are not a very creative culture. " @ 5:55. ;)
Clay (KoonTrucking) said The new HarborFreight ICON sockets are supposed to be now be chrome moly. In his new video on the re-release of their 3/8 flex head ICON ratchets.
I’m not sure about that. I’ve heard the same, but I’m not sure the logic of offering Cr-Mo in chrome. They should be Cr-V, so I need to investigate more I guess…!
@@MidwestToolReview since you have the older ones you should be able to do a good back to back.
And you know just the words Harbor Freight are basically click bait all by itself. Haha, So the video should pay back more than it costs to make. You just gotta locate them, because I would believe that they let the first ones on the selves.
@@MidwestToolReview the only thing I can come up with is that because everyone kept using impact drivers. Then most said “I’m going to use whatever socket is next to me, even if it is a chrome.”
So this is the response to their recommendations made by the testers.
(Just a theory)
Carbon rusts, they have a higher amount of carbon if they are rusting faster/more to other brands.
Good job 👍 from dino mares Fontana CA
What is Better ? Kund regards from Germany
I prefer Cr-Mo as it is preferred for impact guns. Although I don’t believe Cr-V will crack due to its wall thickness, I do believe it may be a little harder on your impact gun, due to energy disposition. Harder materials transfer energy throughout the gun, whereas softer materials will absorb some of that energy, which results in reduced wear on the internals of the gun.
@@MidwestToolReviewI just got 2 3/8” & 1/2” Master Sets from Tekton for $475 total of 159 Pieces and this discovery about them using Chrome Vanadium is driving my OCD nuts. I hate the feeling that I might have an inferior or not standard product when I paid a decent amount of money….I think I’m gonna return these and go with CR-M from Sunex. Any advise in this?
Thanks in advance!
@@DownloaderVideosame here man! I have an obsession with the wear patterns on my impact sockets as I like the worn out look. Cr-mo wear patterns look pretty to me and whatever steel they use on wright, proto, sk, and Williams look pleasing to my eye. I’ve had a cheap set of impact sockets made of cr-v and the wear pattern took longer to appear and doesn’t look as pleasing to my eye.
You said that they don't innovate, but they produced a lot of things for the USA military, especially the lights and some CPU and things like that. Common man, you can be USA all the way without investigating a little bit, btw. China and Taiwan are not the same, china is trying to get down Taiwan, because China doesn't like them to get out of their control, you can't be that hard with them if you don't know them.
I know all to well about manufacturing in China, Taiwan, etc. I’ve been in Engineering since 2001, and I’ve worked on everything from plastic cups to aircraft for consumer and military/government. Unfortunately I stand by my position that they are not innovative, and you have to understand their is a difference between producing goods and designing goods for the US. Keep in mind, the US reached out to China to design a CPU for our F22 stealth fighters, and they installed malware which allowed them to download the flight data so that they could use it to develop their own fighter. This is also the same country that couldn’t design and build their own commercial jetliners, so they purchased a Airbus A320 and reverse-engineered it and came out with what they call the Comac C919, which is nothing more than a copy-cat of another country’s design. Sorry, but had you done your homework, you’d know better than to challenge me on this!!
I'm not challenging you sir, and I can say you are pretty good and well prepared man, but even though you are an expert in this, you shouldn't act so high, I mean, if you know at lot isn't it better to explain more in your videos than just a comment? Yes, I have learn my lesson, but are you willing to show the people around your channel what you know? Or just teach a lesson to a less prepared young man? And, a lot of people can be little prepared or don't know about this kind of things, just repeat, you should show them too what it's the correct way and saying why, and I have not a desire to discuss more, I know I lose this, but, are you losing what's important in your videos? Or what could help others?
Because you don't have access does not mean it does not exist and is no reason to over simplify a complex subject. Opinions without facts are of no value.
Not much of value in this video. It doesn't recognize the difference of processes, production or much of anything else but personal opinion of varying degree of validity. No science involved. No metallurgy involved.
Read a book…not much difference between Cr-Mo and Cr-V… the difference exists within each manufacturer’s heat treatment process, to which is considered “proprietary” therefore I don’t have access to that information…
Omg ... the title say crv vs crmly ... dude has no idea wat he's talking about
If you know more, make a video, call me out in said video, and tell everyone what you know! Simple ask…
@@MidwestToolReviewdont make a content if u did not know what about u the content
Frist
Have you ever planned what you are going to say so you speak in a continuing cadence? Your stop and start speaking is very annoying. 27 minutes to finally tell us which is better and why. You lost me by 10 minutes.... Yes, you were not ready.
Lol….
Yawn!
Right!!