In a few tests you can see the head of the bolt moving well before any yield, meaning bolt has not been properly torqued. Stresses accumulate differently when you have combined stresses and strains. It is always important to torque to specification. As a design engineer we were instructed to avoid putting bolts in single shear or shear at all. Shear stress in steel is traditionally lower than tensile yield strength. Some preferred practices were not being used in these tests.
Glad that someone else noticed that 😮 You should always double check everything especially if you get a result you didn’t expect, make sure that it wasn’t a fault of your testing.
Bolts are not designed to be used in shear, that’s what pins are for. If they do get used in shear, they should be used in a double shear at the minimum and only the unthreaded portion of the fastener otherwise the bolt will fail at the small diameter in the bottom of the thread root.
My biggest criticism is that you kept mixing up the comparative values on the screen. For example at the end you tested the Chinese titanium then put up the value for the grade 8.8 bolt but labeled it Titanium for Spaceship. Then again when you tested the 12.9 bolt you put up a different value but labeled it Titanium for Spaceship again.
Worked for a foundry that produces areospace/medical titanium parts. Some of the suppliers where chinese, they produce good materials. Only issue with the cheaper bolt is the coloring, it indicated the presence on alphacase on the surface of the parts. Alphacase is very brittle so it cause problems for cyclic loads overtime (small cracks will form and weaken the part). Alphacase is formed when titanium is heated since it reacts with oxigen. Alphacase needs to be etched off the surface using hf acid for a quality part, the coloring indicates that the etching process was not properly done. Hope this info helps/clarifies for someone.
@@barryaaa5909 What I said hasnt changed just because you are an engineer. Its called physics something you should be well acquainted with if you are an engineer. For titanium its a slower process due to how strong it is.
"Do not repeat at home". Thanks for the warning, I might have been tempted to try this on the industrial hydraulic press I happen to have lying around 😂
Small to medium hydraulic presses are common home shop tools. And can be pretty dangerous if goofing around crushing random stuff. I found this out with a small piece of 3/4" plywood.
It would've helped if at the end of this video you put up a chart or listing ranking the various bolt types in both shear off strength and linear pull strength, from best to worst, along with all of the associated failure values so we could study and compare all of the results all together, side by side in a list form for at least 30 seconds or so.
No lo puede hacer porque no es la forma correcta de hacer ensayos de rotura de materiales; incluso las maquinas especificas a tal fin realizan la curva carga/deformacion/rotura
Russia has the best titanium in the world... what they use on their spacecraft is the best of that best. The Soviets at one point had a whole giant vacuum fabrication facility to make titanium submarine hulls... it was a giant waste of time/resources but the engineering & fabricating processes still make them the best in the world (like Taiwan with chip production... wherein the most bleeding edge becomes almost Guild Master/Alchemist that can only be reproduced within those labs by those masters who pass on this unlearnable aspect to the head apprentices.) Same reason why everything collapsed in America cause those original labs/fabrication facilities with those old masters were shut down and they have to be essentially built from the ground up again
It's not friction, it's applying the proper preload for the fastener to perform as it's designed to. That said this entire "test" has so many sloppy variable that it can hardly be considered reliable. XD
...so does the wallowing out of the holes after each test putting the different bolts in different shear and bending situations...OK vid for a goofy comparison but must list the type and grade of the bolts correctly - so thumbs down
way back now but one of the things they taught new crew chiefs going into the US military was the different forces applied to fasteners, structural components and what those forces look like in action.
Every technology lab has extra equipment for pulling or shearing forces and doesn't play in the garage with old press lol these are standard tests in the industry
My father was an commercial aircraft mechanic and salvaged a lot of the fasteners that were replaced. We used them on various mechanical projects and automotive uses like exhaust bolts. Whatever materials they were made of, they never rusted or stripped, super strong.
A bloke I knew worked for Scania (trucks) and he kept some bolts and stuff. You could put a spanner on those and screw them into the appropriate sized hole in steel and not bother tapping a thread first! They don’t rust and you can’t weld them (accidentally got too close to one bolt but the weld didn’t take).
This content wasn’t meant to show a “fair” comparison apples to apples. It was “engineered” to showcase Chinese quality and change perceptions of Chinese metal parts being of inferior quality. This is a PR piece.
Nice job setting up the rig for your tensile strength test. Two things would’ve been nice to see: 1) during the sheer test, that the initial loading for each bolt was uniform. You could’ve done this with a torque wrench. 2) also very much would’ve like to have seen a close-up shot of the broken surface
For people wondering why cheap Chinese bolts might be stronger than the space bolts - the main attribute of a space bolt would be its weight over its strength. The bolt would rate just as strong as it requires to avoid being disproportionately strong for its needs, thus: heavier than it could have otherwise been. You can bet the bolts were manufactured exactly within strength capability witin specific thresholds, in order to allow for as much enhanced weight reduction property as possible.
This is the absolute correct answer. I've worked with aerospace stuff and everything boils down to the exact required strength to weight ratio. No overkill can be afforded with them otherwise they wouldn't make it off the ground. Everything is calculated down to the nm
I work on metal stamping dies, and we use 12.9 bolts as standard. I've used some supertanium bolts and have never had one fail, but one of the key issues to consider is the diameter of the fastener being used. Often, the best solution is stepping up to the next size bigger. When breakage occurs the designed fasteners might not have been enough for the load Really like this type of video, a final chart on a dry erase board comparing results, would've been nice.
I have used inconel X-750 for a forging die ejection pin mechanism. All imported from China. It worked beautifully. Toolig lasted for nearly 2 years in production. The pin it self was 16 mm in dia and 150 mm in lenght. Die operated at 500 C. had cooling and heating cycles too. Best part, the pin was 1/4 the price an American company quoted me.
Yes, I'm working as an Engineering staff, and we design machines, and yes in drawings, the plans, we use diameter 7 for a bolt of M6 for the same issue you've stated
It's a useful point that instead of going up a fastener grade simply go to the next diamater. It's pretty much an axiom saying that if breakage occurs then the fasteners were not enough for the load ;)
@@Dangerously_SatisfyingI think he means alloys since very few things are pure titanium or pure steel. 12.9 is not an alloy or grade but a standard/certification or w/e. Also pretty sure there are 14.9 rated ones lol.
These relatively tiny bolts are incredibly strong is what I get from this video. Even the smaller ones take almost 2 metric tons of force to break. That’s about the weight of a mid sized pickup truck like a Chevy Colorado or Toyota Tacoma.
Bravo!!! Class 12.9 bolts are often used when prolonged use under harsh loads risks stretching the bolt rather than breaking it which is why very specific torque settings are required, A good example is Cylinder Head bolts on an engine that need to expand/contract and still remain tight avoiding cylinder head failure :-))
Days of 12.9 class bolts on cylinder heads are gone. Most cars of current century use 8.8 class bolts for cylinder heads. Torque spec is close to yield limit of bolt, so bolt acts as a spring and provides more consistent clamping force under different temperature related expansions of cylinder head
Haven't read all the comments but some bolts have threads at the gap between the two plates and some are solid, no threads. Threads will weaken the bolt in shear at the thread compared with the unthreaded shaft of the bolt.
@@melgross I'm open to learn new things, but you will have to do more than just claim something. I didn't just make up what I said, it's something that has been taught to me by multiple experienced people and teaching sources.
The shear test should be done with a flat peace of steel between 2 supports, torqued with A torque wrench. This will give you 2 shear areas, but no momentum on the screws. Also the friction between the plates will be identical fir comparison. I believe in the first test the chinese titanium screw showed a better value because it was not only applied with shear force, but also with tension because the plate was already pushed away…
Truly unfair comparison. Space bolt had washers (clearly softer metal) and a nut adding leverage against bolt. Fastening nut should be flush as with chinese titanium bolt.
Thread pitch, bolt diameter, the torque used to assemble your fixture, the exact alloy of each bolt , the rigidity of the testing fixture, etc. all come into play here. I guess what I'm saying is that it would have been nice to have some more control metrics used and displayed in your video (besides bolt mass and general material type).
I think that when you do your tests you should get a torque wrench and torque the bolts to a specific torque. Because it may make a difference if the bolts are not torqued the same. That would make your video's more accurate.
You shouldn't forget that titanium alloy was designed to stay stable under high and low temperatures when most types of steel become more brittle or plastic.
A better comparison would be to use two bolts of equal weight rather than the same size. That would show the relative strength vs weight. Titanium has an advantage in being lighter and does not rust, even in saltwater.
@@East-somewhere i just claimed they were 'seemingly' indestructible...nothing is indestructible...there is always something bigger, and stronger, or smaller and more pervasive...i prefer to not grasp reality at all since the fundamental state of reality is to always change.
Shocked that the AliExpress bolts performed as well as they did. I figured they'd be filled with rabbit turds or something (like fake cigarettes a few years ago).
@Baldspot My dad was born in the 50's and he never heard that "Made in Japan" meant junk. Although you are right, the West underestimate China way too much.
I think that quality itself isn't necessarily the issue when the product in fact matches the description of the seller on AliExpress. The problem is that regulation on such platforms is often bad, so there is no guarantee that a titanium bolt is indeed made of 100% titanium.
2 года назад
Wow what a surprise that fatmericans are xenophobic racist twats.
The torque in to the bolt is a very important variable to the resistence of your assembly. A 10.9 class bolt may resist much less than a 8.8 (same dimensions) if not enough torque is given.
The only downside to Ti bolts is that you need cadmium free tools to work on the Ti parts or else the cadmium corrodes the Ti. I worked at Viking Metallurical Corp, they make Ti jet engine parts and learned about this gift from space.
That's not the accurate way to test for shear-strength, you have highly variable friction component in the setup - at the very least you should use a torque-wrench for consistency.... Also your figures are muddled up and don't match the footage. You also compare shoulder bolts with all-threaded ones, which are always weaker. Anyone else notice some of them are LH thread? Or perhaps mirrored video?
Yeah. A better test apparatus would have the same length of threaded and unthreaded shaft. The shear test would have the shearing component on both sides of the stationary component so it wasn't also twisting. And titanium nuts torqued the same for everything.
You should have used a torque wrench for this experiment, in order to compare fairly these bolts. When tightened adequetly, all the cutting force turns to traction tensions. Failing to evenly torque bolts, could lead to uneven results
Would second an interest in seeing the failed bolt surfaces - a ductile failure of the bolt compared to striping the thread is an interesting comparison. I'd also be very interested to see polished and etched microsections - how do the compositions and heat treatments (obviously, if any) vary? Even the quality of the machining on the thread would be an interesting factor, though I'll admit that's probably too much effort for a RUclips video.
Other factors to consider is that this is a room temperature test. Titanium performs better at high temperatures than most steels do, the intended use is another factor in decided which material is appropriate. Titanium is also less susceptible to most types of corrosion than steel is.
Can we just appreciate how strong all the materials are? I mean you can pretty much hang an SUV on one of those bolts and they are not even some big and thick ones.
The beauty of steel and alloy products are their tensile strength. If you could hold onto it, several people could hang from a coke can, though one heavy foot is enough to crush it. Of course, concrete is the opposite, which is why they are a brilliant construction product when combined.
Would be cool to see this done with better controls. All bolts same diameter. Same threads. Torqued to the same spec or maybe “optimal” spec for the given material.
Hmmm so.. different bolts of different materials, size, width and torque applied to will have different strenghts. How accurate this test was ! I am amazed !
Steel alloys are stronger than Titanium, it's just that Titanium has good strength-to-weight ratio. Also, strength does not omly depend on the metal used. It also depends on the manufacturing method (cast, forged, powder-metal forged, machined forged billet, sintered, etc.)
Been heard titanium is weak on impact and good at handling high heat, so the test result is more than I expected. And I wonder, doesn’t the manufacturer give the standard, of how much force the bolts are designed to handle? …
High quality steel with the right hardness is still stronger than the best titanium alloy, titanium is used for weight reduction and corrosion resistance without giving up to much when it comes to strength.
@@andreasfjellborg1810 You are right. my boss at a titanium forging plant used to say "CP-Titanium is only as good as 316 Stainless in strenght but with much lower weight. There are stronger metals, such as nickle alloys that will beat titanium any day in strenght.
Hats off to you for taking a scientific approach. With all this expert advice in the comments, you'll be able to perfect your methods in no time and become the world's foremost testing and certification lab:-) Seriously, at least some of the advice is good, hope you take it impersonally instead of feeling kicked in the 'nads. In that spirit, I humbly suggest giving the bolts short names like "A," "B," "C," or Maui, Kush, Thai or something. My eyes aren't great and i kept missing the tests while trying to read. It would also remove some viewer bias. At the end of the video reveal what each label stands for along with a summary of the results.
Mother Fucker this was the most unscientific test I have ever seen. The dude didn't match thread pitch or applied torque equally along all tests. Know how a bolt works before testing them.
The methodology was a little iffy and I couldn't figure what the results actually meant, but I love that you tested for strength and didn't just crush the bolts. Tensile and shear, it's what a bolt does.
А условие одинаковой осевой затяжки деталек при тесте на "срез/смятие" в отверстии соблел? нет тогда по деталям машин садись 2, усилие затяжки повлияет на силы трения которые надо будет сначала "преодолеть" так еще и пары трения титан сталь не равны между собой по умолчанию, потому что тест на растяжение показал совсем другой запас прочности + гайки тоже надо брать равного класса, чтоб смятие витков было аналогичным с болтом, а то будет как с 12.9 - витки гайки остались на "дико каленом" болту, которые вообще запрещены в машиностроении, так как "лопаются" а не тянутся в случае разрушения, а так для обывателя "красиво", спасибо за ролики)
12 й класс закален и подвержен определенному отпуску, такой болт не хрупкий, но имеет повышенный предел текучести (0.9) относительно сопротивлению на разрыв, и сталь в таких болтах как минимум 40Х, а это уже не ст3.
I have a question about those shear tests. Did you torque them to spec for specific steel or titanium and have the same torque specs for each? Only asking because the bolts are much stronger when torqued when applying to sheer strength. I believe tension strength is improved as well but I haven’t specifically looked into that in the past.
Space bolts look to have an MSO2 coating, whilst the Chinese version have an anodised finished. This wouls prevent hauling and ensure that when torquing the correct preload is induced. No lubrication can weekend the bolts ability to take a load.
Its interesting that they would choose titanium for the bolts on a spaceship. Im guessing they are interior bolts though since titanium rusts quickly in a vacuum. Whereas steel bolts can't rust in a vacuum due to the lack of oxygen.
Don't just compare values of force applied on each bolt. They can be of different cross sectional area. The strength value should be in psi (pounds per square inch of cross section area) of shear, tension or compression.
Some values worth taking into account: oxidative stress, heat stress and how both of those affect elastic and plastic deformation. I imagine the space use titanium can handle both values better than the cheap titanium as that is the environment they need to be designed to tolerate. (High G stress and atmospheric friction).
High G stress and atmospheric friction HAVE ZERO to do with anything regarding these bolts. In fact high G stress isnt even a thing regarding mechanical fasteners. Its got to do with a persons ability to withstand high G's. Atmospheric friction..lmfao you dug deep for that nonsense. We dont engineer nor test bolts factors that do not apply. Ask me how i know.
I think it's not the head type but the grade of titanium used. Regardless of what the the tightening interface is it's more that this will be the same material type.
these bolts are from different alloys of Titanium. Don't expect them to be even close to eachother, and Titanium is known for its TENSILE strength. Shear strength is quite another thing. this is a badly thought out comparison. Also, for the cost of the bolts, the Ali Express items are a lot more bolt for the buck. you can get 5 Ali bolts for one NASA bolt
6:31 this is not a proper test for bolt tensile strength. You used a thin section but that is not intended to hold loads for tension. From the video you can see that the threads are sheared. When you have a booted connection in tension, the threads and nut should never fail. Only the bolt shank (grip) should fail. Again, you need to use a proper tension but for this test. In the following segment you realized it and then used a different nut and the test right broke. It needs a bit of explanation to the audience.
This is what Dad did when he worked on the Titan IV rocket platform at Cape Canaveral. He was responsible for the stress analysis of the bolts for the launch assembly. The Cassini spacecraft was one of his projects.
Just wondering, what is the rate of metal fatigue for both alloys? The weight and that should be the biggest factors for choice using it in a space craft
Son, Not true. there are 26 grades. Plus multiple custom grades and alloy systems depending on the application. But 5 grades are basic available to the laymen.
I was aboard FF 1066 during the 1980’s when a couple of yard workers asked if we had a couple of bolts. They showed a couple of black ones for example. I told them to check the stor-cage. I knew there were no high grade bolts there but they were welcome to look. A couple of days later the ship across the pier was lighting off when they had a catastrophic steam leek. The LO crew didn’t make it. After investigation it was reviewed that the main steam stop for the boiler had failed because it had been installed with black coated brass,Brass! Bolts. We were told to remove all black brass bolts from inventory. It was too late for the DD across the pier. We had to check every bolt on board to make sure we had proper grade bolts installed on our steem and auxiliary systems.
To make an HONEST comparison you should take a titanium SPACE INDUSTRY bolt from China (the ones they use in their SUCCESFUL Moon and Mars vehicles). This is like comparing 5 star Michelin restaurant food from France to a KFC joint in the Bronx/USA and than make the conclusion that "France always has better food than the USA". In any comparison test you should compare eggs with eggs, NOT compare eggs with tomatoes.
Mechanically, that makes very little difference. It's not a lever by the distance from the center hole, moreso, it's a shear /lever by the two separate plates, and the downforce/upforce is the same for both positions. It's not distributing force to another bolt surface, so both configurations are equal.
@@user-it8gk3ke7h if that was the case, the bolts would need, same diameter, same shank, same thread pitch, same bolting torque. It's close enough for a comparison for Chineseum vs titanium
Yeah well, I dont know what was the purpose of this "test", it is very unprofessionally done and there are many flaws giving only a proximate results. Maybe because this channel and its crew only knows how to operate the press knowing much of nothing what they are actually doing? Titanium, there is dozens of different alloys with all have different properties. You cant just say "Titanium" without knowing its composition. In overall Titanium is not used for its strength, but because of its other properties, weight/strength ratio, corrosion resistance, heat properties etc. Steel has other properties which fit to many.
Thats not how titanium works, titanium is lighter than steel, but similar strength, the aliexpress bolts arent oure titanium and have other alloys in them to make it cheaper to produce, but they are about the same weigh as steel, not titanium, making them useless
Dans un assemblage mécanique il faut toujours créer un "point faible" ,c'est souvent les vis et les boulons qui sont prévus pour casser avant que les contraintes abîment des pièces plus chères où plus complexes. Il vaut mieux casser une vis à 10 euros qu'abimer un carter à 1000 euros sur lequel elle est vissée.
In the 60’s my dad worked for a company that produced fasteners and components for aerospace. Each and every piece had to be shot peened, magnafluxed, x-rayed, fail-tested and meticulously inspected under a stereo microscope… then personally signed off, every step of the way to ensure a tolerance as close to zero as humanly possible. It’s an expensive and labor intensive process…
Its not that titanium is going to hold that much more tonnage. It's that it'll hold the same tonnage while being half the weight of steel
Bingo
💯
Probably would have been the choice of armor for the ultra ultra rich if gunpowder was never invented.
Or it could work even better as a mele weapon due to its lighweight characteristics.
@@helium-379 Titanium doesn't hold an edge well. Its too soft for edged weapons, steel in this regard is better in everything except weight
In a few tests you can see the head of the bolt moving well before any yield, meaning bolt has not been properly torqued. Stresses accumulate differently when you have combined stresses and strains. It is always important to torque to specification. As a design engineer we were instructed to avoid putting bolts in single shear or shear at all. Shear stress in steel is traditionally lower than tensile yield strength. Some preferred practices were not being used in these tests.
Exactly which makes the tests pretty much useless..
Glad that someone else noticed that 😮 You should always double check everything especially if you get a result you didn’t expect, make sure that it wasn’t a fault of your testing.
There are definitely methods ASTM ! I believe it was American Standards Testing Materials
Bolts are not designed to be used in shear, that’s what pins are for.
If they do get used in shear, they should be used in a double shear at the minimum and only the unthreaded portion of the fastener otherwise the bolt will fail at the small diameter in the bottom of the thread root.
@@skullfracture2exactly
My biggest criticism is that you kept mixing up the comparative values on the screen. For example at the end you tested the Chinese titanium then put up the value for the grade 8.8 bolt but labeled it Titanium for Spaceship. Then again when you tested the 12.9 bolt you put up a different value but labeled it Titanium for Spaceship again.
maybe he just made a mistake?
Yoooo was confuzzled too man
Agree, it's a bit chaotic.
Same observation... Ruins the video for me. Still fun to watch tho
Yes. It was extremely confusing.
Worked for a foundry that produces areospace/medical titanium parts.
Some of the suppliers where chinese, they produce good materials.
Only issue with the cheaper bolt is the coloring, it indicated the presence on alphacase on the surface of the parts.
Alphacase is very brittle so it cause problems for cyclic loads overtime (small cracks will form and weaken the part). Alphacase is formed when titanium is heated since it reacts with oxigen. Alphacase needs to be etched off the surface using hf acid for a quality part, the coloring indicates that the etching process was not properly done.
Hope this info helps/clarifies for someone.
Both of these bolts are Class 5.
And me I wouldnt trust that bolt just because of the colouring. I was taught as a child that when you discolour metal via heat you weaken it.
@@0blacklightning046 True for steel but Titanium is a different ball game, trust the engineer lol.
@@barryaaa5909 What I said hasnt changed just because you are an engineer. Its called physics something you should be well acquainted with if you are an engineer. For titanium its a slower process due to how strong it is.
"Do not repeat at home". Thanks for the warning, I might have been tempted to try this on the industrial hydraulic press I happen to have lying around 😂
Ha, agreed, if I had a hydraulic press and load cells this is exactly wghat I would be doing at home!
Small to medium hydraulic presses are common home shop tools. And can be pretty dangerous if goofing around crushing random stuff. I found this out with a small piece of 3/4" plywood.
@@randydewees7338common? I've never seen or heard of someone who has one at their houses, you must be living on another planet
@@shirowolff9147 Go to your local Harbor Freight and buy one, be the first on your block.
@@shirowolff9147 Do a quick web search and see all the cheap presses for sale - $150 to your door.
It would've helped if at the end of this video you put up a chart or listing ranking the various bolt types in both shear off strength and linear pull strength, from best to worst, along with all of the associated failure values so we could study and compare all of the results all together, side by side in a list form for at least 30 seconds or so.
This.
Agreed..
No lo puede hacer porque no es la forma correcta de hacer ensayos de rotura de materiales; incluso las maquinas especificas a tal fin realizan la curva carga/deformacion/rotura
Russia has the best titanium in the world... what they use on their spacecraft is the best of that best. The Soviets at one point had a whole giant vacuum fabrication facility to make titanium submarine hulls... it was a giant waste of time/resources but the engineering & fabricating processes still make them the best in the world (like Taiwan with chip production... wherein the most bleeding edge becomes almost Guild Master/Alchemist that can only be reproduced within those labs by those masters who pass on this unlearnable aspect to the head apprentices.) Same reason why everything collapsed in America cause those original labs/fabrication facilities with those old masters were shut down and they have to be essentially built from the ground up again
This so can some do that for us in the comment section
You need to torque the bolts.
In the sheer test friction of the plates plays a huge part in the strength.
Came here to mention this
Exactly…
Agree, came to say the same.
It's not friction, it's applying the proper preload for the fastener to perform as it's designed to.
That said this entire "test" has so many sloppy variable that it can hardly be considered reliable. XD
...so does the wallowing out of the holes after each test putting the different bolts in different shear and bending situations...OK vid for a goofy comparison but must list the type and grade of the bolts correctly - so thumbs down
For any accident investigators out there, it might be interesting if you showed a magnified image the bolt surface after the sheer and tear failures.
way back now but one of the things they taught new crew chiefs going into the US military was the different forces applied to fasteners, structural components and what those forces look like in action.
Every technology lab has extra equipment for pulling or shearing forces and doesn't play in the garage with old press lol
these are standard tests in the industry
*shear
Would also like to see how much each one costs.
My father was an commercial aircraft mechanic and salvaged a lot of the fasteners that were replaced. We used them on various mechanical projects and automotive uses like exhaust bolts. Whatever materials they were made of, they never rusted or stripped, super strong.
A bloke I knew worked for Scania (trucks) and he kept some bolts and stuff. You could put a spanner on those and screw them into the appropriate sized hole in steel and not bother tapping a thread first! They don’t rust and you can’t weld them (accidentally got too close to one bolt but the weld didn’t take).
... a* commercial airdraft mechanic
@@einundsiebenziger5488 Good thing you chimed in. People must have been so confused by my typo.
@egoequus6263 i was very confused I'm glad he explained what you were trying to type
cool story brah
This content wasn’t meant to show a “fair” comparison apples to apples. It was “engineered” to showcase Chinese quality and change perceptions of Chinese metal parts being of inferior quality. This is a PR piece.
propaganda
The numbers don't add up neither
Nice job setting up the rig for your tensile strength test.
Two things would’ve been nice to see:
1) during the sheer test, that the initial loading for each bolt was uniform. You could’ve done this with a torque wrench.
2) also very much would’ve like to have seen a close-up shot of the broken surface
Exactly. The shear strength of the bolt and 2 components is related to the clamping force
Idk if the thread pitch was even the same. Same torque value to to bolts with different thread pitch results in different clamping force.
@@thedarkmage7373 I didn’t even pay attention to that. Valid point.
Project Farm vibes from this comment
Actually you'd also want a test with their rated torque for each class. Over or under torquing per the material would give incorrect results
For people wondering why cheap Chinese bolts might be stronger than the space bolts - the main attribute of a space bolt would be its weight over its strength.
The bolt would rate just as strong as it requires to avoid being disproportionately strong for its needs, thus: heavier than it could have otherwise been.
You can bet the bolts were manufactured exactly within strength capability witin specific thresholds, in order to allow for as much enhanced weight reduction property as possible.
This is the absolute correct answer. I've worked with aerospace stuff and everything boils down to the exact required strength to weight ratio. No overkill can be afforded with them otherwise they wouldn't make it off the ground. Everything is calculated down to the nm
They were weighted at the beginning of the video FYI
In other words for construction builds Steel whilst having Chinese Titanium bolts at vital parts is beyond plenty
You answered my unposted question very well, and I appreciate that. Thank you!
@@mengguangwang not the chinese bolt.
I work on metal stamping dies, and we use 12.9 bolts as standard. I've used some supertanium bolts and have never had one fail, but one of the key issues to consider is the diameter of the fastener being used. Often, the best solution is stepping up to the next size bigger. When breakage occurs the designed fasteners might not have been enough for the load
Really like this type of video, a final chart on a dry erase board comparing results, would've been nice.
That’s quite possibly the longest sentence I’ve ever read.
@@somuchbs6008 I'm not a wordsmith sorry if it wasn't English teacher approved
Life is too short for all that damn punctuation
I have used inconel X-750 for a forging die ejection pin mechanism. All imported from China. It worked beautifully. Toolig lasted for nearly 2 years in production. The pin it self was 16 mm in dia and 150 mm in lenght. Die operated at 500 C. had cooling and heating cycles too. Best part, the pin was 1/4 the price an American company quoted me.
Yes, I'm working as an Engineering staff, and we design machines, and yes in drawings, the plans, we use diameter 7 for a bolt of M6 for the same issue you've stated
It's a useful point that instead of going up a fastener grade simply go to the next diamater. It's pretty much an axiom saying that if breakage occurs then the fasteners were not enough for the load ;)
There are many grades of Titanium. We have no idea what is being tested here.
He is testing from what the label says., what’s the best grade …………..?
These bolts are Class 5.
@@Dangerously_SatisfyingI think he means alloys since very few things are pure titanium or pure steel. 12.9 is not an alloy or grade but a standard/certification or w/e. Also pretty sure there are 14.9 rated ones lol.
These relatively tiny bolts are incredibly strong is what I get from this video. Even the smaller ones take almost 2 metric tons of force to break. That’s about the weight of a mid sized pickup truck like a Chevy Colorado or Toyota Tacoma.
Bravo!!! Class 12.9 bolts are often used when prolonged use under harsh loads risks stretching the bolt rather than breaking it which is why very specific torque settings are required, A good example is Cylinder Head bolts on an engine that need to expand/contract and still remain tight avoiding cylinder head failure :-))
Days of 12.9 class bolts on cylinder heads are gone. Most cars of current century use 8.8 class bolts for cylinder heads. Torque spec is close to yield limit of bolt, so bolt acts as a spring and provides more consistent clamping force under different temperature related expansions of cylinder head
@@el_kuks "Stretch bolts" that aren't supposed to be re-used.
If a bolt is stretched it is a failure and should be binned. It will no longer have much strength.
Haven't read all the comments but some bolts have threads at the gap between the two plates and some are solid, no threads. Threads will weaken the bolt in shear at the thread compared with the unthreaded shaft of the bolt.
I came here to leave a similar comment but found yet again, great minds think alike.
The bolts that have a full length thread are called set screws, bolts are partially threaded
@@dharveyftw7349since when? They’re called fully threaded screws. Bolts are something different. Set screws usually have no heads.
@@melgross I'm open to learn new things, but you will have to do more than just claim something. I didn't just make up what I said, it's something that has been taught to me by multiple experienced people and teaching sources.
The shear test should be done with a flat peace of steel between 2 supports, torqued with A torque wrench. This will give you 2 shear areas, but no momentum on the screws. Also the friction between the plates will be identical fir comparison. I believe in the first test the chinese titanium screw showed a better value because it was not only applied with shear force, but also with tension because the plate was already pushed away…
for sure
He also used the threaded portion of the fastener which is slightly smaller and weaker
Truly unfair comparison. Space bolt had washers (clearly softer metal) and a nut adding leverage against bolt. Fastening nut should be flush as with chinese titanium bolt.
I agree with all the posters below who said put up a final chart with all the results side by side.
Thread pitch, bolt diameter, the torque used to assemble your fixture, the exact alloy of each bolt , the rigidity of the testing fixture, etc. all come into play here. I guess what I'm saying is that it would have been nice to have some more control metrics used and displayed in your video (besides bolt mass and general material type).
I agree! A fine thread pitch allows for more thread contact and in turn more strength.
Also depends on where the point of failure is. Most likely at the threads. Finer threads aren't as deep therefore cross-sectional area will be larger.
with 6.6mil views this video could have made over $30,000. they probably don't care
@krusher74 true but I commented when there was more like 600 views...
I think that when you do your tests you should get a torque wrench and torque the bolts to a specific torque. Because it may make a difference if the bolts are not torqued the same. That would make your video's more accurate.
And match thread pitch
Torque doesn't appear to be necessary since they're pulling against a nut and the threads, not 2 flush plates.
Wow. AliExpress bolts exceeded my expectations. Space bolt is lightweight not entirely titanium but a composite or alloy
not a true test, need to have the same spec, same weight, etc...
@@callmejon 😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫
Yep, grade 5 or Ti6AL4V
Don't trust this channel's results. The format is crap
You shouldn't forget that titanium alloy was designed to stay stable under high and low temperatures when most types of steel become more brittle or plastic.
Also strength to weight ratio
And corrosion resistance.
A better comparison would be to use two bolts of equal weight rather than the same size. That would show the relative strength vs weight. Titanium has an advantage in being lighter and does not rust, even in saltwater.
I would like to see the same tests at high and low temperatures.
It’s just satisfying seeing seemingly indestructible stuff break.
Nothing in this video is purported to be indestructible. You need a better grasp on reality.
@@East-somewhere i just claimed they were 'seemingly' indestructible...nothing is indestructible...there is always something bigger, and stronger, or smaller and more pervasive...i prefer to not grasp reality at all since the fundamental state of reality is to always change.
@@East-somewhere You need a better grasp on a personality.
@@East-somewhere nice gaslight. my mang said "seemingly."
dont ever invite this edgy clown to a party.
Shocked that the AliExpress bolts performed as well as they did. I figured they'd be filled with rabbit turds or something (like fake cigarettes a few years ago).
@Baldspot How old are you ? 100 ? 😅
@Baldspot My dad was born in the 50's and he never heard that "Made in Japan" meant junk.
Although you are right, the West underestimate China way too much.
I think that quality itself isn't necessarily the issue when the product in fact matches the description of the seller on AliExpress. The problem is that regulation on such platforms is often bad, so there is no guarantee that a titanium bolt is indeed made of 100% titanium.
Wow what a surprise that fatmericans are xenophobic racist twats.
@@TempAccount358 That's true that many specifications are overrated in a wide variety of products sold there.
The torque in to the bolt is a very important variable to the resistence of your assembly. A 10.9 class bolt may resist much less than a 8.8 (same dimensions) if not enough torque is given.
Thx, just wanted to write that! That's a very crucial factor, as well as the surface condition of the connecting plates.
I doubt that would matter. this seems like the type of guy that didn't even match thread pitch.
The only downside to Ti bolts is that you need cadmium free tools to work on the Ti parts or else the cadmium corrodes the Ti. I worked at Viking Metallurical Corp, they make Ti jet engine parts and learned about this gift from space.
Bet the spacecraft bolt was also made in China.
Would be great a sheet at the end of the video showing all the results. It's easyer to compare it. Thanks for the video!
Thought about it too.
От степени затяжки резьбы много зависит, динамометрический ключ нужен.
ты прав. Привет из Бразилии
Why am I watching this at all? It is so satisfying and I don't know why.
Because we are real men
When watching an hydraulic press working is more interesting than 90% of the RUclips content these day...
95%
That's not the accurate way to test for shear-strength, you have highly variable friction component in the setup - at the very least you should use a torque-wrench for consistency.... Also your figures are muddled up and don't match the footage. You also compare shoulder bolts with all-threaded ones, which are always weaker. Anyone else notice some of them are LH thread? Or perhaps mirrored video?
Yeah. A better test apparatus would have the same length of threaded and unthreaded shaft. The shear test would have the shearing component on both sides of the stationary component so it wasn't also twisting. And titanium nuts torqued the same for everything.
Actually the Allie bolts did quite well considering the price
You should have used a torque wrench for this experiment, in order to compare fairly these bolts. When tightened adequetly, all the cutting force turns to traction tensions. Failing to evenly torque bolts, could lead to uneven results
and if your measuring things equally, using a spacer changes the stretch of the bolt .
Would second an interest in seeing the failed bolt surfaces - a ductile failure of the bolt compared to striping the thread is an interesting comparison. I'd also be very interested to see polished and etched microsections - how do the compositions and heat treatments (obviously, if any) vary? Even the quality of the machining on the thread would be an interesting factor, though I'll admit that's probably too much effort for a RUclips video.
Other factors to consider is that this is a room temperature test.
Titanium performs better at high temperatures than most steels do,
the intended use is another factor in decided which material is appropriate.
Titanium is also less susceptible to most types of corrosion than steel is.
I'm impressed that the Chinese titanium was better than the spaceship titanium lol. No wonder Challenger blew up.
Am I the only one wondering that spacecraft screws come in slot and cross heads?
Can we just appreciate how strong all the materials are? I mean you can pretty much hang an SUV on one of those bolts and they are not even some big and thick ones.
The beauty of steel and alloy products are their tensile strength. If you could hold onto it, several people could hang from a coke can, though one heavy foot is enough to crush it. Of course, concrete is the opposite, which is why they are a brilliant construction product when combined.
Would be cool to see this done with better controls. All bolts same diameter. Same threads. Torqued to the same spec or maybe “optimal” spec for the given material.
Hmmm so.. different bolts of different materials, size, width and torque applied to will have different strenghts. How accurate this test was ! I am amazed !
So, the Chinese titanium did an OUTSTANDING job! Cheap, light, OK strength for ordinary uses!
yep. and far better and cheaper than anything made by a bunch of sissy boy union faggots
Steel alloys are stronger than Titanium, it's just that Titanium has good strength-to-weight ratio.
Also, strength does not omly depend on the metal used. It also depends on the manufacturing method (cast, forged, powder-metal forged, machined forged billet, sintered, etc.)
Of course they use flathead screws on a spaceship. Those won't ever come out.
😅🤣😂🤣😅
No more likely than any other
@@andrewholdaway813 you've obviously never used a flathead screwdriver on flathead screws before.
@@justinwatkins3500
Just trying to find out wth you meant.
Maybe they don't want them to be removed?
Yeah, next best thing to security head bolts.. especially if the loctite them with the green loctite by mistake.
Never go into space with just one bolt.
Very confusing findings. Fun to watch though!
I love that you used the CCCP copy of the US shuttle. Does this mean that both bolts were from China?
Been heard titanium is weak on impact and good at handling high heat, so the test result is more than I expected. And I wonder, doesn’t the manufacturer give the standard, of how much force the bolts are designed to handle? …
Yeah, this guy is just checking the numbers. Also those numbers are what the manufacturers are sure their product can handle, not what it will.
@@SoMuchFacepalm does these numbers indicate the tons it’s purposed to handle? I don’t really get it, not enough information
@@minercraftal pretty sure he's using kilos in the counter in the corner.
Genuine titanium is capable of withstanding MUCH more pressure and load. Processing titanium is a challenging process.
High quality steel with the right hardness is still stronger than the best titanium alloy, titanium is used for weight reduction and corrosion resistance without giving up to much when it comes to strength.
@@andreasfjellborg1810 You are right. my boss at a titanium forging plant used to say "CP-Titanium is only as good as 316 Stainless in strenght but with much lower weight. There are stronger metals, such as nickle alloys that will beat titanium any day in strenght.
Hats off to you for taking a scientific approach. With all this expert advice in the comments, you'll be able to perfect your methods in no time and become the world's foremost testing and certification lab:-) Seriously, at least some of the advice is good, hope you take it impersonally instead of feeling kicked in the 'nads. In that spirit, I humbly suggest giving the bolts short names like "A," "B," "C," or Maui, Kush, Thai or something. My eyes aren't great and i kept missing the tests while trying to read. It would also remove some viewer bias. At the end of the video reveal what each label stands for along with a summary of the results.
Mother Fucker this was the most unscientific test I have ever seen. The dude didn't match thread pitch or applied torque equally along all tests. Know how a bolt works before testing them.
The methodology was a little iffy and I couldn't figure what the results actually meant, but I love that you tested for strength and didn't just crush the bolts. Tensile and shear, it's what a bolt does.
Such an awesome idea for a RUclips channel…Brilliant!!!!
Bolt designed for different purposes should not be compared.
0:15 ah so there made of tin! Good to know.
А условие одинаковой осевой затяжки деталек при тесте на "срез/смятие" в отверстии соблел? нет тогда по деталям машин садись 2, усилие затяжки повлияет на силы трения которые надо будет сначала "преодолеть" так еще и пары трения титан сталь не равны между собой по умолчанию, потому что тест на растяжение показал совсем другой запас прочности + гайки тоже надо брать равного класса, чтоб смятие витков было аналогичным с болтом, а то будет как с 12.9 - витки гайки остались на "дико каленом" болту, которые вообще запрещены в машиностроении, так как "лопаются" а не тянутся в случае разрушения, а так для обывателя "красиво", спасибо за ролики)
12 й класс закален и подвержен определенному отпуску, такой болт не хрупкий, но имеет повышенный предел текучести (0.9) относительно сопротивлению на разрыв, и сталь в таких болтах как минимум 40Х, а это уже не ст3.
@@chlonitazene Eso es verdad. Bien visto señorita.
Also not a good test for prolonged durability. Material fatigue, heat resistance, vibration resistance, etc. Break out that torch and a stop watch.
Titanium corrosion resistance relative wieght to strength especially at temperature. And its dam cool to say Titanium.
You should hire a new editor
In the first series, that hole in the shear plate just about had to be picking up a rounded edge .
I have a question about those shear tests. Did you torque them to spec for specific steel or titanium and have the same torque specs for each? Only asking because the bolts are much stronger when torqued when applying to sheer strength. I believe tension strength is improved as well but I haven’t specifically looked into that in the past.
Space bolts look to have an MSO2 coating, whilst the Chinese version have an anodised finished.
This wouls prevent hauling and ensure that when torquing the correct preload is induced.
No lubrication can weekend the bolts ability to take a load.
Its interesting that they would choose titanium for the bolts on a spaceship. Im guessing they are interior bolts though since titanium rusts quickly in a vacuum. Whereas steel bolts can't rust in a vacuum due to the lack of oxygen.
I really feel the pressure watching stuff like this.
Pressing matters...
I felt like it was a weight off my shoulders to be honest!
Don't just compare values of force applied on each bolt. They can be of different cross sectional area. The strength value should be in psi (pounds per square inch of cross section area) of shear, tension or compression.
not in most if the world! kPa?
Nobody with half a working brain cell measures anything in PSI...
Some values worth taking into account: oxidative stress, heat stress and how both of those affect elastic and plastic deformation. I imagine the space use titanium can handle both values better than the cheap titanium as that is the environment they need to be designed to tolerate. (High G stress and atmospheric friction).
High G stress and atmospheric friction HAVE ZERO to do with anything regarding these bolts. In fact high G stress isnt even a thing regarding mechanical fasteners. Its got to do with a persons ability to withstand high G's. Atmospheric friction..lmfao you dug deep for that nonsense. We dont engineer nor test bolts factors that do not apply. Ask me how i know.
@@NoBallsInWomensStallsI'm curkous how do you know?
Well I'm impressed I thought the Titanium you got from China was "Titantium."
All I see in the comments is people pissed off that the Chinese bolts did as well as it did. Grow up people
Not all titanium bolts are 100% titanium.. they are an alloy and pure titanium is very malleable (soft).
Ti CP
Ti 3Al 2.5V
Ti 6Al 5V
@@fontrogetcyprien681 Ti6AL4V
No titanium is pretty hard for a pure metal but it's properties are bad. Kinda brittle.
Don't trust this channel's results. The format is crap
3:08 Looks like China made it better the space-builds.
There are specs for a reason. How many inclusions are there in the bolts? What is the variance in the thermal expansion ect......
Honestly, the most shocking thing was that a space shuttle has flat head hardware.
i think it is used due to it has less air restriction.
In the picture of the clip was no space shuttle but the soviet version.
I think it's not the head type but the grade of titanium used. Regardless of what the the tightening interface is it's more that this will be the same material type.
these bolts are from different alloys of Titanium. Don't expect them to be even close to eachother, and Titanium is known for its TENSILE strength. Shear strength is quite another thing. this is a badly thought out comparison. Also, for the cost of the bolts, the Ali Express items are a lot more bolt for the buck. you can get 5 Ali bolts for one NASA bolt
Oh no, the titanium bolts in my back were made in the USA and cost over $1000 each. Maybe I should have checked Ali Baba.
Bolts need to be tightened to rated torque to meet performance specs...
6:31 this is not a proper test for bolt tensile strength. You used a thin section but that is not intended to hold loads for tension. From the video you can see that the threads are sheared. When you have a booted connection in tension, the threads and nut should never fail. Only the bolt shank (grip) should fail. Again, you need to use a proper tension but for this test.
In the following segment you realized it and then used a different nut and the test right broke. It needs a bit of explanation to the audience.
Crazy how strong the Chinesium actually was
This is what Dad did when he worked on the Titan IV rocket platform at Cape Canaveral. He was responsible for the stress analysis of the bolts for the launch assembly. The Cassini spacecraft was one of his projects.
Amazing to see the strengths of those bolts, but would of been nice to have the results listed.
0:01 don't you mean 'Do not repeat at home what you saw in this video '
Just wondering, what is the rate of metal fatigue for both alloys? The weight and that should be the biggest factors for choice using it in a space craft
Well, weight is very important too when you want to make flying or space screws :)
Son, there are at least five grades of titanium. And space is certainly not one of them...
Son, Not true. there are 26 grades. Plus multiple custom grades and alloy systems depending on the application. But 5 grades are basic available to the laymen.
I was aboard FF 1066 during the 1980’s when a couple of yard workers asked if we had a couple of bolts. They showed a couple of black ones for example. I told them to check the stor-cage. I knew there were no high grade bolts there but they were welcome to look. A couple of days later the ship across the pier was lighting off when they had a catastrophic steam leek. The LO crew didn’t make it. After investigation it was reviewed that the main steam stop for the boiler had failed because it had been installed with black coated brass,Brass! Bolts. We were told to remove all black brass bolts from inventory. It was too late for the DD across the pier. We had to check every bolt on board to make sure we had proper grade bolts installed on our steem and auxiliary systems.
"Do not repeat at home what you saw in this video" *repeats it at friends house"
To make an HONEST comparison you should take a titanium SPACE INDUSTRY bolt from China (the ones they use in their SUCCESFUL Moon and Mars vehicles).
This is like comparing 5 star Michelin restaurant food from France to a KFC joint in the Bronx/USA and than make the conclusion that "France always has better food than the USA".
In any comparison test you should compare eggs with eggs, NOT compare eggs with tomatoes.
the problem is space grade bolts from China is not something one can buy online.
Consider this video as "just for fun". 😜
All in all I expected an order of magnitude difference and was surprised, that the numbers were that close.
The moon landing was faked.
Now the real question is, where did he get spacecraft bolts from :)
pre-own Russian spacecraft
Aliexpress 😂
Pieces of the Columbia shuttle.
he is actually an alien
Next time you see a rocket exploding on the launchpad you will know.
I think once for all that it is confirmed that the chinese make normal stuff for a good price, sentimental patriotism is another thing. 👍👍
Early deformation of the cheap titanium bolts shifts the force from shear to more tensile, appearing to make it stronger.
7.6 million views! I wish my vids got that
why do you put the steel bolt in the middle hole, and the titanium on the outside holes, sus
Mechanically, that makes very little difference. It's not a lever by the distance from the center hole, moreso, it's a shear /lever by the two separate plates, and the downforce/upforce is the same for both positions. It's not distributing force to another bolt surface, so both configurations are equal.
@@RuleOfRagestill for the sake of the experiment, you need to keep those things consistent
@@user-it8gk3ke7h if that was the case, the bolts would need, same diameter, same shank, same thread pitch, same bolting torque. It's close enough for a comparison for Chineseum vs titanium
Yeah well, I dont know what was the purpose of this "test", it is very unprofessionally done and there are many flaws giving only a proximate results. Maybe because this channel and its crew only knows how to operate the press knowing much of nothing what they are actually doing?
Titanium, there is dozens of different alloys with all have different properties. You cant just say "Titanium" without knowing its composition. In overall Titanium is not used for its strength, but because of its other properties, weight/strength ratio, corrosion resistance, heat properties etc. Steel has other properties which fit to many.
I had a real eyeroll at his "tension" apparatus. Hardly surprising it broke. That kind of foolishness could get somebody hurt.
Why titanium for spaceship is weaker than aliexpress bolts?
Thats not how titanium works, titanium is lighter than steel, but similar strength, the aliexpress bolts arent oure titanium and have other alloys in them to make it cheaper to produce, but they are about the same weigh as steel, not titanium, making them useless
Probably optimized for weight VS optimized for strength
Nasa still thinks light "travels". What do expect from them? They need a bit more Einstien to wake up.
Dans un assemblage mécanique il faut toujours créer un "point faible" ,c'est souvent les vis et les boulons qui sont prévus pour casser avant que les contraintes abîment des pièces plus chères où plus complexes.
Il vaut mieux casser une vis à 10 euros qu'abimer un carter à 1000 euros sur lequel elle est vissée.
Chinese Bolts ? ..... Crazy.... Cool.... Really Impressive Stuff. 😎⭐👍🏻NICE Video.
I like the way you set up that shear test!
I don't have HYDRAULIC PRESS in my home......... How can i do this experiment
Can anyone give me HYDRAULIC PRESS 😎😎😎😎😎🤓🤓
You could easily recreate this by using bigger bolts to apply the force
In the 60’s my dad worked for a company that produced fasteners and components for aerospace. Each and every piece had to be shot peened, magnafluxed, x-rayed, fail-tested and meticulously inspected under a stereo microscope… then personally signed off, every step of the way to ensure a tolerance as close to zero as humanly possible. It’s an expensive and labor intensive process…
And then NorskHydro goes and fakes thousands of tests over almost 20 years
@@nicholasdenney1318 I suppose, if they are Fakers.
The type of titanium maters, as does the amount of tension you put on the bolt with the nut.
Also lots of these bolts are sold as titanium coated
Titanium also has better thermal resistance than standard steel bolts.