The Trinity Delusion A good Q for Trinitarians. 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, my first-born: 23 and I have said unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me; and thou hast refused to let him go: behold, I will slay thy son, thy first-born. Is "God the Son" allso Israels father?!
Thanks, you are a blessing, it is great to hear a teacher that is really earthly and speaks with clarity and trying to sound so high and mighty from their education. Keeping it real thanks again.
God's expresses Himself by His Word, His Logos. His Logos became flesh, the man Jesus. The Father anointed Jesus with His Spirit to do His works. God the Father expressed Himself through Jesus in the works Jesus in the name of His Father.
Two of the earliest Church Fathers, Polycarp and Ignatius taught the deity of Christ. The early Church father, Irenaeus (circa A. D. 120-190) wrote that Polycarp was “instructed” and “appointed” by the apostles, “conversed with many who had seen Christ,” “having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles,”(2) “the accounts which he gave of his intercourse with John and with the others who had seen the Lord. And as he remembered their words, and what he heard from them concerning the Lord, and concerning his miracles and his teaching, having received them from eyewitnesses of the ‘Word of life,'”(3) So his view of Jesus is very important. In The Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians, he mentions “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “our Lord and God Jesus Christ.”(4) Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness and in all freedom from anger and forbearance and steadfastness and patient endurance and purity, and may he give to you a share and a place among his saints, and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead. Thus, Polycarp agrees with the teachings of the apostles that Jesus is God.(5) Ignatius was the Bishop of Antioch at the same time Polycarp was the Bishop of Smyrna. He wrote seven letters to the Churches while en route to his execution in Rome around the year A. D. 110. In Ignatius’ letter to the Ephesians 18:2 he states: For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan . . .
Being taught by a disciple of Jesus does make someone an authentic teacher. What they teach is what makes them authentic teachers of the one true God. Everyone must be tested against the clear proclamation of scripture.
"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." One can hardly be more inclusive than that. There is simply nothing that is existent anywhere that was not created by the Word. He created everything. Obviously, therefore, if one can be described as creating everything, one must be the Creator, and certainly not a creation. The Word is the Creator. All people reading John's words would undertand that the Creator is God, not some lower being created by God to do the work for Him. By not qualifying his statement, John assured that we could correctly understand his intention and his teaching concerning Christ, the Word. He is eternally God
I understand the word to be the Father. There's only one true God, the Father. Jesus says this himself in John 17:3. Jesus tells us again in John 20:17 that the Father is God. Again in Ephesians 1:3 it says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." And it keeps going like this all throughout the Bible. This means that either the Bible is lying, or someone's lying to you.. You should go back and reinterpret your scripture using the Apostolic teachings, especially in the book of Acts, until it matches these facts. You don't have to go through the rest of your life not knowing.
Exactly what "Church" apologetics is - making up excuses. I remember when I came across Jerome's mentioning of the rendering, "This day I have begotten you," rather than, "in whom I am well pleased," and he explained it away saying it was an "eternal" day.
I’m struggling with how Moses, Isaiah, and others saw God in the Old Testament but in John 1:18 it says that no one has seen God. Please help me with this. It’s been bothering me for some time. I’ve searched for any answers that you may have given on this but I have not found anything.
11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.... Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!” 19 And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.” 20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!” Exodus 33 9 Now Joshua the son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands on him; and the sons of Israel listened to him and did as the Lord had commanded Moses. 10 Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face... Deut 34
His disciples weren't expressing Jesus? I used to think, "the trinity must be right because so many people believe it" But... If your honest with yourself. Jesus is our brother, and his father God is our God.
And yes I am a JW, and no, I am not brainwashed - anybody with the right disposition can work this out - and ultimately we all stand before the Judgement Seat - and there is no human sitting on it. Worship God with a clean conscience.
As any Greek expert and he will tell you that earliest does not mean best. In fact, we know for certain that John was being corrupted by Gnostics at a very early date. Even further, Irenaeus seems to be talking about this very verse when he is talking about these Gnostic corruptions. Even further, in the 4th century debates, the Trinitarians (Athanasians) used "the only begotten Son" reading while the Arians used the "God" version. Why base your beliefs on such highly suspicious evidence?
@@luyandaqumbelo6806 Check out Philippians 2:6 in NIV. They changed "being in the form of God" to read "being in the very nature God". I've never seen a translation having it as "being God". God will judge them.
Can I ask you a few questions. Does the Creator have a Name, if so, what is it? Scripture asks this question! Pro 30:4 Who has gone up to the heavens and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, And what is His Son’s Name, If you know it? What does it mean when Scripture tells us to keep the Sabbath? Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart. Who was born the 25th of December, and why do you celebrate it? How do you get 3 days and 3 nights from Good Friday to Sunday? Mat 12:40 “For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
How can there be a begotten God, when in Isaiah it says: Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
Bible Calls Angels the (Son's) of the True God (Genesis 6:1-4); (Job 1:6); (Plsams 148: 2,5) Jesus is God's only (Begotten Son) So yeah God has more then 1 Son Jesus
(John 11:24-25) Jesus said to Martha I'm the Ressurection to Life so Jesus can raise the dead. (John 5:25) the dead hear the (VOICE) of the (Son of God) and will rise back to life & will Live again. (1st Thessalonians 4:16) (Archangel VOICE) Michael can raise the dead to? Brotha that's Jesus. They have the same attributes. Only (Jesus) Has the Power to raise the dead not both therefore scripture indicates they are the same Being. (Daniel 10:3) Michael is called a Prince. (Isiaha 9:6) Jesus is called a Prince as well - one of his Titles (Rev: 12: 7-9) Archangel Michael has the ability to command Angels. (1st Peter 3:22)- Jesus is (Given) Authority to Command angels. Jesus is the only one who can command angels. Therefore that's Michael to. (GALATIONS 4:14)- Welcomed me as if I was an angel of god, as if I were Christ Jesus Himself.
Isiaha 43:10 those are Jehovah's witnesses (Rev. 3:14) Jesus is the Most Faithful & True Witness Colessians 1:15 Jesus was the First born over all Creation
Alot of the Papyrus render 1:18 as begotten GOD. I had this issue too but I'm sticking with GOD. It makes more sense in context with Revelation 1:8 when Jesus is the A&O. GOD IS A SPIRIT. Most people don't realize that. The HOLY SPIRIT and Mary gave Birth to a son. Son of GOD is that relation. K.
Reading ideas into a text is a very bad idea. Reading ideas into a text to verify a text is an even worse idea. Also, please be reminded that your Bible tells you that a Christian is a begotten son of God.
The NIV quotes John 1:18 as: "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father , has made him known." This is a terrible translation and is very upsetting. It goes against the entire premise of John's gospel, which was written to prove that Jesus is the son of God.
The phrase "μονογενὴς Θεὸς" for us Biblical Unitarians does not need to be a problem. The more proper translation of "μονογενὴς Θεὸς" is "the uniquely begotten god." We see "μονογενὴς" used elsewhere in Scripture in this sense such as in Hebrews 11:17 where we see "μονογενὴς" used in its conjugated form: "By faith Abraham offered up Isaac and he that had received the promises offered up his _uniquely begotten_ (μονογενῆ)." Jesus being the uniquely begotten god doesn't make him the Almighty God since the term "god" in the Hebrew culture and language was used on a much wider spectrum than in English. That's why we see Jesus in John 10:34 quoting Psalm 82:6 where God's appointed rulers and judges are called "gods" as mighty men with great authority (i.e. ones with power over powers). Jesus being the "uniquely begotten god" means that he is God's uniquely created, appointed King and ruler.
As a Muslim and a believer of Jesus, it's actually referring to Jesus unique birth being born without a father and him being the monoganess uniquely created prophet of God and being Allah voice on earth he's like Moses being Eloahim (godly man chosen of God or Gods voice and teachings on earth and mouthpiece of God. The trinity believing Christians need to translate it correctly and stop trying to prove the trinity using mistranslated words, when the verse simply says, no man has truly understood God except the uniquely born godly person who taught us about him., meaning taught us about Allah. biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-18.htm
Exactly. The writer of Hebrews was using the same language that God used in the Hebrew language in Genesis 22:2 to refer to Isaac as Abraham's only son. Did God get it wrong? Obviously not. Isaac was Abraham's only (legitimate) son; that is, Abraham and Sarah's only son. What we all agree on is that Isaac was begotten of Abraham and this is what the "genes" part of monogenes means [genes is where we get the English words genes, genitals, generation, etc. from]. And yet, translators, like the NIV, want to eliminate this part of the root word. "begotten" is core to its every use in the Bible. Next they will be translating "Today I have begotten you" as "Today I have made you someone special".
I think it all boils down to the westerners understanding of the word "GOD" (which came from Greek thought) and the hebrew understanding of the word elohim that is prominent in the Tanackh. I'm finding that westerners get most things wrong because they don't understand. Even angels are elohim. But the eternal elohim (he who was, is, and is to come) is Yehovah.
Can you kindly explain this chapter John 171When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6“I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.a 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify themb in the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19And for their sake I consecrate myself,c that they also may be sanctifiedd in truth. 20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
also in other bible translations like kjv, duay rhimes it does not say that Jesus was "God" but rather that Jesus is "in the bosom of his Father". I go to biblehub.cim to look at several verses at once to compare translations.
I have heard that there was an ancient practice of abbreviating titles in the NT manuscripts by simply using the first and last letter and drawing a line over top of them. This would mean the word for God which is "theos" which was frequently used had TS (Theta sigma) with a line and the word for "Son" was "huios" which would have made it HS (Upsilon sigma) with a line over the top. This would mean if there were a scribal error of only a single letter (theta in place of upsilon) a new manuscript tradition could have begun. It's definitely plausible. The early subordinationists, including Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Novatian, Eusibieus, etc. all were charged with believing in 2 or 3 gods and I believe their explanations and defenses were successful. Evidently you have read them and are not convinced. I do agree that "only begotten Son" makes more sense given that John always uses this phrase every other time. "Only begotten God" appears nowhere else and seems like it could be interpreted to fit Trinitarianism, Arianism, Gnosticism....it's ambiguous depending in which sense one reads the text.
@@Scott48-w9i Not as meaningful as you might think unless we take into account the approximate dates for the manuscripts. I could make 20,000 new manuscripts between now and next week which have a new reading and that would make them the majority. In other words, if one manuscript tradition just got copied more times than another one that doesn't necessarily mean anything with regard to the likelihood of which is the original.
This isn't surprising Johns Gospel is Gnostic anyway, Christians have been debating this for centuries and many Christian scholars have said this, but it still doesn't prove Jesus is God, it just simply says, no man has truly understood God except the uniquely born godly person born of a virgin, who taught us about him., meaning taught us about Allah.
The Trinitarians stumble at the "two gods" - but they are not stumbled by the fact that Paul calls Satan "the god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4, why? And that Jesus said to the Jews who accused him of making himself into some kind of god, answered "is it not written "YOU are gods"". He was quoting Ps 82:6 "I myself have said it, YOU are gods... sons of the Most High." They were not even false gods at that time. BUT THERE IS ONLY *ONE* ALMIGHTY GOD! That God is exclusively the Father ONLY!
Its says at no time has man seen God the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him...but if you read before it it is saying the Law given through Moses undeserved kindness and the Truth came to be through Jesus Christ
I've got Bart Ehrman's ''The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture'' in front of me (p.79) and unless I've misunderstood him he mentions Irenaeus, Clement and Tertullian as mentioning ''Son'' not ''God''. Ehrman's footnote says ''That Irenaeus and Clement attest the other reading as well is readily explained by its theological usefulness.'' I'm saying nothing on the theology of all this. The 'God'' reading is mostly in Alexandria; Ehrman thinks it's an anti-adoptionist corruption, not a gnostic one.
Begotten schmagotten. The Son is God. Fine. The question for me is Who alone is the Supreme God? The MOST High? For me there is only One such, either the Father or the Son. Period. End of discussion.
Arians prefer "only begotten god" because it shows inequality between the Father and Son. Psalm 136:2-3 refers to God (the Father) as the "God of all gods" (good and bad) and "Lord of all lords" (good and bad). Our theology usually only allows for one good God (and all the rest are bad - so Jesus got promoted to being a part of God Himself - although trinitarianism holds that God has no parts) - but this is an unnecessary assumption. There are good gods just as there are good lords. Jesus is the only begotten god (who is in the bosom of the Father). Whether it is only begotten god or Son ... either translation is legit, but the stronger reading (according to Nestle-Aland) supports the Arian side of the controversy much better than it supports the trinitarian side. The trinitarian side had to go and invent "an eternal begetting" of the Son by the Father ... so that the Son is being begotten today and tomorrow and forever. This automatically meant that the Father and Son were not equal (one is begetting the other - the Son is not begetting the Father). Either way, the whole eternal aspect is a ridiculous notion that still haunts trinitarian doctrine today.
The majority of the Alexandrian text witch are the oldest text ever find, have the word Theos=God and these text must represented the best proofs for sure! Meaning that Jesus is the only one God is perfectly clear,not only Jesus is God but he his the only true God.This in perfect term mean "I Am " "I Am the Father I Am the Only God" God in flesh=Jesus=The logos We cannot interpret this because it is a clear statement,we cannot say "is a small god"
It's got to be blindness, not corruption. What is the difference between SON & begotten OR son & offspring? consider son & descendant. In this case of The Creator: what do you think The Creator (GOD) produced as HIS offspring? a physical animal? a physical person or perhaps an spiritual being? "NONE OF THIS". Use your brain; a dog will produce another dog, a human will produce another of his spice. So GOD will produce another of HIS oun type, A god. John 1:1 & the word was A god. John 1:18 YES: The Supreme entity gave birth to only one of HIS oun genetics or substance. What genetics? GOD's genetics. GOD gave birth to another god, son, offspring, descendent, child. No, there is no corruption.
You have to take 100% of the books information in the event of The (word) son of God; Jesus was given to existence before all things the book illustrates this event with a pregnancy, so the entity Son of God was produced & became a living being. The Creator God Almighty, in this creation first step, conceive one of His oun spice, a god, not from spiritual realm because heaven was not yet created; spiritual heaven was creation's 2nd step Nej 9:6. To this extent the son is not a common spirit, he is a superior creature given to existence at ETERNITY. The humans were transformed from one spice to another. John 1:1c it is time you humans get use to understand that the (word) Jesus, is the only one of the same spice as The Creator.He is unique, the unigenitus, only born, (not begotten) but ONLY begotten from The Almighty.
Totally convoluted, I too haven't seen any translation say that. There is no word "son" in John 1:18 according to best sources. The word 'god' is used. The 'god' part here is Jesus, but not in any Trinitarian way - many others are called 'god' in the Bible: The Israelites, Moses and even Satan (1 Cor 4:4) are all called 'god' in a particular sense, and certain Jesus was greater than those, but ONLY the Father is uniquely called the Almighty. Only the FATHER, the Creator, is Almighty.
That's a great post... I don't know why so many Trinity ppl and so many Unitarian ppl can't both see that the word God or god is used in the new testament to describe satan...2 cor 4:4 Our appetite is called god in Phil 3:19 King Herod called god in acts 12:22 Paul was called god in acts 28:16... And in this verse also... Act 14:11 NASB - When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they raised their voice, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have become like men and have come down to us.” Jesus called judges god in john 10:34-36.. The man of lawlessness is called god in 2 Thess 2:4.... Theos is the Greek word for God, and is used of the most high and only one true God over 1300 times But that name God can be used to show that other ppl or false god's can share that title.... Jesus has a God.. Jhn 20:17 NASB - Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” And the son of God declares how many YHWH there is... Mar 12:28 NASB - One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the fnforemost of all?” Mar 12:29 NASB - Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
And what about God saying to Moses: "I have made you a god onto Pharaoh and Aaron your brother, your prophet." Did God the Almighty make Moses into a "false god"? Who is greater, Moses or Jesus? Clearly, what made Moses "a god" was the very same one who made Jesus "a god" - there is NO inconsistency. And then you add John 1:18... where is the problem? The only thing that is the problem is the Trinity itself - there is ONE Almighty God who can indeed make many 'lesser' gods. That is the TRUTH!
Yes. Even if we accept the only begotten God reading in Jn1:18 it doesn't prove the Deity of Christ. God can't be begotten and God is invisible and Christ unfolds the Father in such a full and perfect way that God can call the Son a god in a representational way.
There is no escaping this fact. Jesus Himself confirmed it in John 10. Those to whom the word of God came can be called gods. Still, YHWH is one and there is no other.
@@jb_1971 - Indeed, YHWH is the Father and as a Father he has sons, but only one of them was directly created by him and the scriptures leave in no doubt who he is. Jesus and his *_elevated_* position relative to the angels and us, this is mistaken by trinitarians and then rose-coloured glasses take over rather than rational thought. There is no problem in describing by John that Jesus is *_god-like_* as he does in John 1 and elsewhere. Let's look at examples: Satan is called the "god of this world". Moses is called a "god" onto Pharaoh. Even the Israelites were called "gods" because they had a powerful relationship with the only true *_Almighty God._* Jesus too can be described as a "god" in that context and that is what John did. And John also records in 20: 17 that his disciples were "my brothers" and that they shared the same Father (only one) and having as the same God. If the trinity was correct,then... *_Why does Jesus worship the Father as his God?_* Here it is, the words of Jesus to Mary Magdalene *_after_* his resurrection: _"Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to _*_my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”_*_ Mary Magʹda·lene came and brought the news to the disciples."_
1 John 4:8 God is love. Love cannot Exist alone, has to be in company that’s where the members of the Trinity comes in. the Father is God. (1 Cor. 8:6). Jesus is God. (John 1:1). The Holy Spirit is God. (Heb. 3:7 is Quoting Ps.95:7). Today, if you will hear His voice. I’m so sorry you can’t see that
To understand why theologians and many others talk so much nonsense one must understand that they come from arts and humanities backgrounds. They don't know the difference between facts and ideas. Getting something wrong does not make their work fail in public view, often with disastrous consequences. They love and thrive on BS.
I could go with either God or Son. But Son fits better. But either way any son born of a God becomes a God at least in nature. But yes his Father would still have all power unless given to his son.
Yes God gives his son the same power he has to fulfill the prophecy for all humankind , but many believe Jesus is God the Creator of all things , Jesus Christ never said he was God himself , he said if you see me then you are looking at God , why he said that because he is the exact image of his father his God , our God to all ,
“Islam critiqued” is really hammering you in a video. I would think with all his puffed up slams he would act differently seeing this I about Gods book, and to do things in love. Your not a bully in your videos. Sad this guy is going about his views the way he is . Information is information, caring and sharing in a Godly manner is what you do. Don’t know if you have seen the video, not worth the energy. 😬
Jesus is called the only begotten god of the Father because he's the beginning of Jehovah God's creation Rev 3:14 Why aren't the millions of angels also called begotten gods? After God created Jesus, everything else was created through Jesus & for him Jn1:3 Heb1:2 Col 1:16 JHVH didn't create another Almighty, this would be polytheism He created a son who's abilities are beyond human but are not equal to his. JAH gives people & beings the title elohim to those he gives power&authority
IN order for the WORLD to be saved, GOD had to do it!! GOD is without sin, an only GOD can save man from his sins. Jesus said which one of YOU can convict Me of sin. Every man or women that ever lived is under the penaty of SIN, there is none , no not 1 that is righteous-ALL have sinned and falls short of the Glory of GOD an NEEDS a SAVIOR!!! 1 JOHN SAYS , He who does NOT believe that JESUS is COME IN THE FLESH is of anti-christ!! That means that Jesus was there from the beginning and was BORN - IN TIME. bethlehem, of a VIRGIN. yet his goings forth have been from old from EVERLASTING!! GOD has come in the flesh an dwelt among us or pitched his tent with US. Thats the whole point of Scripture. JOHN says by him all things were Created. 1 john completes this by saying -WE beheld HIS GLORY, touched him , ate with HIM. was this just a MAN!! No way -this Jesus was much more an can say. IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME-you HAVE seen the FATHER. i and my father are ONE. Scripture adds that JESUS is the Express Image of GOD. Its so CLEAR.
how can Jesus be praying to the Father at Gethsemane ?? and when Jesus asked God Why has he forsaken him ?? If Jesus was God ? ( IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME-you HAVE seen the FATHER) is Jesus Has the same character and Divinity and the same purpose in mind as the Father
I am of the thinking that John 1:18 is most accurately translated only-begotten god, simply because many of the oldest manuscripts do have god not son. My question is how can the use of god in this verse possibly support the Trinity? In my opinion it is the single most important verse in the first chapter of John that clearly shows without a doubt that Jesus and Yahweh the Creator are two separate beings with Jesus being the subordinate of the two. When the word god is being used it is to show that Jesus is the son of God the Creator therefore he is a god in himself. The same as the son of a human is human. We cant escape that Jesus is called a god in John 1:1 (this is in all early translations). For this reason I think it is critical for disproving the Trinity that John 1:18 should stay "only-begotten god" so people see that Jesus is begotten. In other words Jesus is a god who has been born from another greater God, Yahweh the Creator. The God of the old testament simply cannot be "begotten", for he has always been. We need to remember there are many gods. but there is a single worthy God and Creator. Remember that 2 Corinthians 4:4 calls Satan the devil god (that is god of this system), using exactly the same word found for god in John 1. That doesn't mean that he is the Creator or Yahweh.
Daniel Mullins if he is begotten, he cannot say that he is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end. It also says in the Bible that jesus is the creator of all things!!!
@@ShakeelEklegomai This seems to confuse the Scriptures which teach otherwise. The verb is used: God says to Jesus "I begot you" several times in Scripture. And the adjective is used: Jesus is God's begotten Son. The fact that Jesus preexists all creation, was involved in creating the world and will be around after it is destroyed means he can be called "the alpha and the omega". But that does not make him to be GOD Himself.
You're right on the money with the correct translation in John 1:18 being "only begotten god". It really doesn't support trinitarian doctrine. Either way, it is clearly the correct translation: P66 (end of 2nd century), P75 (3rd century), Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (both 4th century) all have "only begotten god". No Greek manuscript before the 5th century has "only begotten Son". Why would someone want to use the faulty evidence ("only begotten Son") unless they (like the trinitarians did in the 4th century) require it to be so for their pre-determined doctrine (in this case, to not have Jesus preexisting his incarnation as a "begotten god"). Interesting, how the cards are played.
You always try to show why Jesus can not be God in the flesh, but how do you explain why the concept of the Trinity is a mistake? God is a Trinity, but it did not materialize in the flesh, how do you refute that?
Please do not present your philosophy, just stick with the context of the chapters and other examples that we read in bible. Such as Elohim, although God is called, false gods are called, but also man of God (YHWH) also called and named by God- Psalms 82:6.
No. The angel of the Lord in the OT was a powerful glorious angel who represented the Deity and was the spokesman for God. It never says it was Christ.
Amazing how Trinitarians try to act as if they are logical when their whole conclusion of what they believe is illogical. They have three 100% gods making one 100% god. How do you argue with such fools? You can't. A fool hath no delight in understanding.
2fast2block I used to be a Trinitarian, but I began to question it because when you read the birth narratives you have the problem of the Holy Spirit rather than the Father seeming to be the Father, which calls the whole thing into question. But that was only the beginning. And it was a hard fought battle getting out of it. Its even harder when you're a preacher and your congregation expects to hear Trinitarianism.
David Brainerd I can relate to much of what you're saying. In my younger days I just didn't question what I was taught much because I just figured the "experts" had good reason to teach what they did. Yet, I read a lot about health matters back then and clearly saw I'm the one responsible on what I accept and put down my throat for food, drink and medicine. I am responsible for me. Later, about 35 years ago, I got to questioning what I put in my brain to believe and I was NOT going to accept anything that didn't fit with the facts and make sense. Back then there was no internet and you really had to do a lot to get info. I was stupid enough to think that strongly searching for truth and sharing it was somehow "glorious" because of the evidence I had. Anyway, LONG story short, if you're truly seeking truth, be ready for a lot of rejection. It will sting like hell, but... As you know, your duty is to please God. In the end, it is you that is responsible for what you accepted to believe. It is also your duty to share what you've learned, and those that reject it for no sound reason, then they are responsible for rejecting it. I've shared with MANY and I must admit, they lost much of my respect, but I also know, some have actually later "saw the light" and it may take time. I wasn't overnight for me either, but damn, I wasn't so hard-headed as most. I really admire your stand.
illogical. that GOD could reveal Himself in a plurality. is nothing impossible with GOD. how bout LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE. who is US and OUR.!!! baptize in the NAME of THE FATHER,THE SON,AND THE HOLY GHOST. The is the Definite article 3 persons 1 GOD. WHY DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT. god SAYS my GLORY will i not give to another. sure looks like SON and HOLY SPIRIT are EQUAL IN THAT STATEMENT!!!
Bob, wonderful, and your conclusion is: All three are 100% gods and they make one 100% god. This is what I said in the opening statement: "Amazing how Trinitarians try to act as if they are logical when their whole conclusion of what they believe is illogical." Admit it, you love being confused. Admit, your whole goal is being confused. If you're not confused, then you can't know whatever god you're trying to refer to.
not at all. READ the scripture- READ ISAIAH an see who God is an what he says about himself!! there are at least 10 versus or more that when GOD describes who he is. THE only Savior. first and last . holy one of israel-alpha and omega-these titles JESUS says about HIMSELF . why did Paul say jesus was GOD in bodily FORM. an that JESUS did not need to grasp at diety -he already had it. micah 5;2 tells us jesus THE MAN was born in bethlehem but his goings forth were from EVERLASTING. want more.
john 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. SO NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD EXCEPT FOR GOD LOL
so which belief is the right one im guessing you will say ur beleif and i guess a million people will say other wise.theres a jesus on every corner which one has tickled your fancy.
WRONG AGAIN TD, gnostic gospels came a few hundred years later, though the concept was around earlier, but JESUS DIETY was preached by the apsotles an especially JOHN who called jesus GOD and said Jesus was the CREATOR. i BUTRESS that with JOHN 1. We beheld HIS GLORY -jesus Glory. we touched HIM ate with HIM. is that just a man that he was talking about?? i think not.wake up TD an read the scriptures. stop twisting it!!
Bob Free he didn't say Jesus was creator but rather what the creator used to make creation. Jesus is the Word Of God and God created through his word. All things were made through him and for him, without him nothing that was made was made. Luke 6:45 Jesus teaches our words come from the overflow of the heart, Gods word was Jesus and God is (holy spirit is the father) in Jesus and Jesus is in Him(The Word). This makes Jesus eternal with God and one with God. He was begotten after being spoken but again dwelt within Gods heart even before then making him one with God. God is creator, the Word is the means of creation. God's Word obeyed the will of God whom he came from and loves God and God loves him and is the fullness of his glory and power and majesty. So yes the father is greater than the son and the son is one with the father. It's one God, The Father and Lord Jesus Christ. The trinity is false because God is spirit and you CANNOT separate the Father from the Holy Spirit. Revelation has 2 on the throne God and his Lamb.
brian , your all over the place in your answer-where do i start. john 1 says the WORD was with God and God. Jesus was the creator of all things. 1 john corroborates it all an says WE beheld HIS (jesus) glory an ate with him , touched HIM. This was GOD with us. john also adds if you do not believe that Jesus is COME in the FLESH then that spirit is of anti-christ. Jesus was NEVER created an if that is so then WHO was HE!! micah says born IN TIME, but from EVERLASTING. i would also point you too Revelations where ALL creatures Worship the LAMB. both have thrones and both sit in one throne. For two thousand years the church fathers right from the beginning call jesus LORD AND GOD. what your spewing out is theo-babble an your own ideas. what im saying is what scripture states. polycarp pupil of john calls jesus LORD and GOD. the BIBLE says Baptize in all 3 persons. NOW why would it say that. i would suggest you read Isaiah and truly find out WHO GOD is and what HE says. I AM GOD an there is none like me . I am the ONLY SAVIOR. Jesus is the SAVIOR. thats just 1 example.The Holy SPIRIT speaks, directs and is a person ie personality. All 3 are GOD and all 3 relate in BAPTISM!!!
Bob Free Jesus is the Word which was in YWHW. By this definition alone yes he is the creator. But it's more complex than this as its really the Father who is creator and Jesus is the Word which God used to create everything including light itself and is himself the very glory of God and his exact representation. The trinity is incorrect because it separates the Father from the holy spirit which is blasphemy. If you read John 1:3 it says everything was made through him. Same is in Colossians 1:15-16. It never says he's the creator, but rather all creation was "made through him and for him". Scripture is clear as far back as genesis, God created THROUGH his Word. Yes Jesus is God, Yes Jesus is eternal, Yes he's one with Father, Yes the Father is greater then He.
Bob Free Jesus is the Word which was in YWHW. By this definition alone yes he is the creator. But it's more complex than this as its really the Father who is creator and Jesus is the Word which God used to create everything including light itself and is himself the very glory of God and his exact representation. The trinity is incorrect because it separates the Father from the holy spirit which is blasphemy. If you read John 1:3 it says everything was made through him. Same is in Colossians 1:15-16. It never says he's the creator, but rather all creation was "made through him and for him". Scripture is clear as far back as genesis, God created THROUGH his Word. Yes Jesus is God, Yes Jesus is eternal, Yes he's one with Father, Yes the Father is greater then He.
Brian , you must read scripture for what it says, yes God is complex within HIS nature. That is, we as humans are a singular being and GOD is much more for lack of better words to describe the INFINITE. Jesus IS the Creator and by HIM all things are created thats what scripture says and backs it up with more scripture so there is no confusion. Jesus says i make my father known, and if you have seen me you have seen the father and now you KNOW HIm. john 14-7. In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth. NOW who is GOD in this statement? Then it says the holy spirit moved across the face of the waters. it did not say he was some force but HE is in the creation. ALL 3 were GOD . there can be no other conclusion. Baptize again in all 3 Names. why would the scripture say this. it would be real blasphemy as only GOD SAVES. Because all 3 are GOD, an that was understood by John and all the apostles and passed down to the pupils Polycarp, iganatius just to name a few. How can GOD in isiaah say there is no other Savior but ME!! Jesus later tells the apostles that the SPIRIT will give you knowledge of ALL things. again this is GODS work and would be blasphemous . conclusion all 3 are GOD. in fact the largest of all new testament scholars state same. Your saying things from your own opinion. i go by what scripture says. Jesus tells us when he was ascending, spread the GOSPEL and Baptize all in Father, SON, Spirit. this is the whole thing. God says besides me there is no other GOD, no other savior , no other GLORY. yet all 3 have that same Glory and FUNCTION within the Godhead.go back to the sources brian.
"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." One can hardly be more inclusive than that. There is simply nothing that is existent anywhere that was not created by the Word. He created everything. Obviously, therefore, if one can be described as creating everything, one must be the Creator, and certainly not a creation. The Word is the Creator. All people reading John's words would undertand that the Creator is God, not some lower being created by God to do the work for Him. By not qualifying his statement, John assured that we could correctly understand his intention and his teaching concerning Christ, the Word. He is eternally God
The word is God the Father. The son isn't mentioned in Jn1:1. It actually literally says: and God was the word. Only on divine person is in view in Jn1:1, God the Father. The Father created all things. Jn1:3 Only God the Father is said to be the one Creator of all things. Rv4:11 The Father is the only true God. Jn17:3 The Father is greater than Jesus. Jn14:28 The Son is subject to His God forever.1Cor15:24,28
Highly questionable evidence is no evidence at all.
The Trinity Delusion A good Q for Trinitarians.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, my first-born:
23 and I have said unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me; and thou hast refused to let him go: behold, I will slay thy son, thy first-born.
Is "God the Son" allso Israels father?!
Brother you nailed it. It's about finding the TRUTH not defending untruths to win an argument!
Truly a blessing hearing this brother teach
Thanks, you are a blessing, it is great to hear a teacher that is really earthly and speaks with clarity and trying to sound so high and mighty from their education. Keeping it real thanks again.
God's expresses Himself by His Word, His Logos. His Logos became flesh, the man Jesus. The Father anointed Jesus with His Spirit to do His works. God the Father expressed Himself through Jesus in the works Jesus in the name of His Father.
Two of the earliest Church Fathers, Polycarp and Ignatius taught the deity of Christ. The early Church father, Irenaeus (circa A. D. 120-190) wrote that Polycarp was “instructed” and “appointed” by the apostles, “conversed with many who had seen Christ,” “having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles,”(2) “the accounts which he gave of his intercourse with John and with the others who had seen the Lord. And as he remembered their words, and what he heard from them concerning the Lord, and concerning his miracles and his teaching, having received them from eyewitnesses of the ‘Word of life,'”(3) So his view of Jesus is very important. In The Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians, he mentions “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” and “our Lord and God Jesus Christ.”(4)
Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness and in all freedom from anger and forbearance and steadfastness and patient endurance and purity, and may he give to you a share and a place among his saints, and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.
Thus, Polycarp agrees with the teachings of the apostles that Jesus is God.(5)
Ignatius was the Bishop of Antioch at the same time Polycarp was the Bishop of Smyrna. He wrote seven letters to the Churches while en route to his execution in Rome around the year A. D. 110. In Ignatius’ letter to the Ephesians 18:2 he states:
For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan . . .
god not God almighty. There is a difference.
Being taught by a disciple of Jesus does make someone an authentic teacher. What they teach is what makes them authentic teachers of the one true God. Everyone must be tested against the clear proclamation of scripture.
@@Thewatchman303 polytheism
Thank you so much for this teaching, you are absolutely correct. It is not about justifying. It is about finding the truth.
Of course they would genius. A court of law condemned God's son.
"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." One can hardly be more inclusive than that. There is simply nothing that is existent anywhere that was not created by the Word. He created everything. Obviously, therefore, if one can be described as creating everything, one must be the Creator, and certainly not a creation. The Word is the Creator. All people reading John's words would undertand that the Creator is God, not some lower being created by God to do the work for Him. By not qualifying his statement, John assured that we could correctly understand his intention and his teaching concerning Christ, the Word. He is eternally God
I understand the word to be the Father. There's only one true God, the Father. Jesus says this himself in John 17:3. Jesus tells us again in John 20:17 that the Father is God. Again in Ephesians 1:3 it says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." And it keeps going like this all throughout the Bible. This means that either the Bible is lying, or someone's lying to you.. You should go back and reinterpret your scripture using the Apostolic teachings, especially in the book of Acts, until it matches these facts. You don't have to go through the rest of your life not knowing.
The word was God and became flesh, which is the Son of God.
@@jb_1971 unbegotten God begotten God that is not one God
Exactly what "Church" apologetics is - making up excuses. I remember when I came across Jerome's mentioning of the rendering, "This day I have begotten you," rather than, "in whom I am well pleased," and he explained it away saying it was an "eternal" day.
Begotten in his human nature
I’m struggling with how Moses, Isaiah, and others saw God in the Old Testament but in John 1:18 it says that no one has seen God. Please help me with this. It’s been bothering me for some time. I’ve searched for any answers that you may have given on this but I have not found anything.
11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.... Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!” 19 And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.” 20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!” Exodus 33
9 Now Joshua the son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands on him; and the sons of Israel listened to him and did as the Lord had commanded Moses. 10 Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face... Deut 34
His disciples weren't expressing Jesus?
I used to think, "the trinity must be right because so many people believe it"
But... If your honest with yourself. Jesus is our brother, and his father God is our God.
And yes I am a JW, and no, I am not brainwashed - anybody with the right disposition can work this out - and ultimately we all stand before the Judgement Seat - and there is no human sitting on it.
Worship God with a clean conscience.
As any Greek expert and he will tell you that earliest does not mean best. In fact, we know for certain that John was being corrupted by Gnostics at a very early date. Even further, Irenaeus seems to be talking about this very verse when he is talking about these Gnostic corruptions. Even further, in the 4th century debates, the Trinitarians (Athanasians) used "the only begotten Son" reading while the Arians used the "God" version. Why base your beliefs on such highly suspicious evidence?
What about some versions that add "who is himself God"(referring to Jesus)?
Where'd that phrase come from? And when?
North of Too Far, the NIV just made it up. It's not part of the original text.
@@TheTrinityDelusion now i am getting rid of the NIV, they are misleading the masses on purpose.
@@luyandaqumbelo6806 Yes they are
@@luyandaqumbelo6806 Check out Philippians 2:6 in NIV. They changed "being in the form of God" to read "being in the very nature God". I've never seen a translation having it as "being God". God will judge them.
@@jb_1971 fully and emptied seems like a contradiction
Can I ask you a few questions.
Does the Creator have a Name, if so, what is it? Scripture asks this question!
Pro 30:4 Who has gone up to the heavens and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, And what is His Son’s Name, If you know it?
What does it mean when Scripture tells us to keep the Sabbath?
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart.
Who was born the 25th of December, and why do you celebrate it?
How do you get 3 days and 3 nights from Good Friday to Sunday?
Mat 12:40 “For as Yonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the great fish, so shall the Son of Aḏam be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
How can there be a begotten God, when in Isaiah it says:
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
Agreed
Jesus is The (Arch)Angel
Bible Calls Angels the (Son's) of the True God
(Genesis 6:1-4); (Job 1:6); (Plsams 148: 2,5)
Jesus is God's only (Begotten Son)
So yeah God has more then 1 Son Jesus
(John 11:24-25) Jesus said to Martha I'm the Ressurection to Life so Jesus can raise the dead.
(John 5:25) the dead hear the (VOICE) of the (Son of God) and will rise back to life & will Live again.
(1st Thessalonians 4:16) (Archangel VOICE) Michael can raise the dead to? Brotha that's Jesus. They have the same attributes. Only (Jesus) Has the Power to raise the dead not both therefore scripture indicates they are the same Being.
(Daniel 10:3) Michael is called a Prince.
(Isiaha 9:6) Jesus is called a Prince as well - one of his Titles
(Rev: 12: 7-9) Archangel Michael has the ability to command Angels.
(1st Peter 3:22)- Jesus is (Given) Authority to Command angels. Jesus is the only one who can command angels. Therefore that's Michael to.
(GALATIONS 4:14)- Welcomed me as if I was an angel of god, as if I were Christ Jesus Himself.
Isiaha 43:10 those are Jehovah's witnesses
(Rev. 3:14) Jesus is the Most Faithful & True Witness
Colessians 1:15 Jesus was the First born over all Creation
Nobody was ever called to have faith in a systematic theology.
Alot of the Papyrus render 1:18 as begotten GOD. I had this issue too but I'm sticking with GOD. It makes more sense in context with Revelation 1:8 when Jesus is the A&O. GOD IS A SPIRIT. Most people don't realize that. The HOLY SPIRIT and Mary gave Birth to a son. Son of GOD is that relation. K.
Reading ideas into a text is a very bad idea. Reading ideas into a text to verify a text is an even worse idea. Also, please be reminded that your Bible tells you that a Christian is a begotten son of God.
The NIV quotes John 1:18 as: "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father , has made him known." This is a terrible translation and is very upsetting. It goes against the entire premise of John's gospel, which was written to prove that Jesus is the son of God.
The phrase "μονογενὴς Θεὸς" for us Biblical Unitarians does not need to be a problem. The more proper translation of "μονογενὴς Θεὸς" is "the uniquely begotten god." We see "μονογενὴς" used elsewhere in Scripture in this sense such as in Hebrews 11:17 where we see "μονογενὴς" used in its conjugated form: "By faith Abraham offered up Isaac and he that had received the promises offered up his _uniquely begotten_ (μονογενῆ)." Jesus being the uniquely begotten god doesn't make him the Almighty God since the term "god" in the Hebrew culture and language was used on a much wider spectrum than in English. That's why we see Jesus in John 10:34 quoting Psalm 82:6 where God's appointed rulers and judges are called "gods" as mighty men with great authority (i.e. ones with power over powers). Jesus being the "uniquely begotten god" means that he is God's uniquely created, appointed King and ruler.
As a Muslim and a believer of Jesus, it's actually referring to Jesus unique birth being born without a father and him being the monoganess uniquely created prophet of God and being Allah voice on earth he's like Moses being Eloahim (godly man chosen of God or Gods voice and teachings on earth and mouthpiece of God.
The trinity believing Christians need to translate it correctly and stop trying to prove the trinity using mistranslated words, when the verse simply says, no man has truly understood God except the uniquely born godly person who taught us about him., meaning taught us about Allah.
biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-18.htm
Exactly. The writer of Hebrews was using the same language that God used in the Hebrew language in Genesis 22:2 to refer to Isaac as Abraham's only son. Did God get it wrong? Obviously not. Isaac was Abraham's only (legitimate) son; that is, Abraham and Sarah's only son. What we all agree on is that Isaac was begotten of Abraham and this is what the "genes" part of monogenes means [genes is where we get the English words genes, genitals, generation, etc. from]. And yet, translators, like the NIV, want to eliminate this part of the root word. "begotten" is core to its every use in the Bible. Next they will be translating "Today I have begotten you" as "Today I have made you someone special".
I think it all boils down to the westerners understanding of the word "GOD" (which came from Greek thought) and the hebrew understanding of the word elohim that is prominent in the Tanackh. I'm finding that westerners get most things wrong because they don't understand. Even angels are elohim. But the eternal elohim (he who was, is, and is to come) is Yehovah.
Yes that's a problem but it boils down to a bigger problem - not dying to the world and becoming alive to God.
Very helpful - thanks
Nothing for me to prove. Prove your own argument.
Can you kindly explain this chapter
John 171When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
6“I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.a 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify themb in the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19And for their sake I consecrate myself,c that they also may be sanctifiedd in truth.
20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
Would you like an essay, book, or dissertation?
When you say Arian's are you referring to Arius at Constantine? He did not believe that Jesus was God. Are there 2 Arian's?
also in other bible translations like kjv, duay rhimes it does not say that Jesus was "God" but rather that Jesus is "in the bosom of his Father". I go to biblehub.cim to look at several verses at once to compare translations.
I have heard that there was an ancient practice of abbreviating titles in the NT manuscripts by simply using the first and last letter and drawing a line over top of them. This would mean the word for God which is "theos" which was frequently used had TS (Theta sigma) with a line and the word for "Son" was "huios" which would have made it HS (Upsilon sigma) with a line over the top. This would mean if there were a scribal error of only a single letter (theta in place of upsilon) a new manuscript tradition could have begun. It's definitely plausible.
The early subordinationists, including Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Novatian, Eusibieus, etc. all were charged with believing in 2 or 3 gods and I believe their explanations and defenses were successful. Evidently you have read them and are not convinced.
I do agree that "only begotten Son" makes more sense given that John always uses this phrase every other time. "Only begotten God" appears nowhere else and seems like it could be interpreted to fit Trinitarianism, Arianism, Gnosticism....it's ambiguous depending in which sense one reads the text.
The majority of manuscripts say only begotten god
@@Scott48-w9i
Not as meaningful as you might think unless we take into account the approximate dates for the manuscripts.
I could make 20,000 new manuscripts between now and next week which have a new reading and that would make them the majority.
In other words, if one manuscript tradition just got copied more times than another one that doesn't necessarily mean anything with regard to the likelihood of which is the original.
@@thapack45 the oldest manuscripts say the only begotten god
This isn't surprising Johns Gospel is Gnostic anyway, Christians have been debating this for centuries and many Christian scholars have said this, but it still doesn't prove Jesus is God, it just simply says, no man has truly understood God except the uniquely born godly person born of a virgin, who taught us about him., meaning taught us about Allah.
hey man, I have a video on this particular passage you might like.
The Trinitarians stumble at the "two gods" - but they are not stumbled by the fact that Paul calls Satan "the god of this world" in 2 Cor 4:4, why?
And that Jesus said to the Jews who accused him of making himself into some kind of god, answered "is it not written "YOU are gods"".
He was quoting Ps 82:6 "I myself have said it, YOU are gods... sons of the Most High."
They were not even false gods at that time.
BUT THERE IS ONLY *ONE* ALMIGHTY GOD!
That God is exclusively the Father ONLY!
Its says at no time has man seen God the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him...but if you read before it it is saying the Law given through Moses undeserved kindness and the Truth came to be through Jesus Christ
Actually yea you were saying that the evidence would be favorable in court but it would not.
I've got Bart Ehrman's ''The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture'' in front of me (p.79) and unless I've misunderstood him he mentions Irenaeus, Clement and Tertullian as mentioning ''Son'' not ''God''. Ehrman's footnote says ''That Irenaeus and Clement attest the other reading as well is readily explained by its theological usefulness.'' I'm saying nothing on the theology of all this. The 'God'' reading is mostly in Alexandria; Ehrman thinks it's an anti-adoptionist corruption, not a gnostic one.
Begotten schmagotten. The Son is God. Fine. The question for me is Who alone is the Supreme God? The MOST High? For me there is only One such, either the Father or the Son. Period. End of discussion.
Arians prefer "only begotten god" because it shows inequality between the Father and Son. Psalm 136:2-3 refers to God (the Father) as the "God of all gods" (good and bad) and "Lord of all lords" (good and bad). Our theology usually only allows for one good God (and all the rest are bad - so Jesus got promoted to being a part of God Himself - although trinitarianism holds that God has no parts) - but this is an unnecessary assumption. There are good gods just as there are good lords. Jesus is the only begotten god (who is in the bosom of the Father). Whether it is only begotten god or Son ... either translation is legit, but the stronger reading (according to Nestle-Aland) supports the Arian side of the controversy much better than it supports the trinitarian side. The trinitarian side had to go and invent "an eternal begetting" of the Son by the Father ... so that the Son is being begotten today and tomorrow and forever. This automatically meant that the Father and Son were not equal (one is begetting the other - the Son is not begetting the Father). Either way, the whole eternal aspect is a ridiculous notion that still haunts trinitarian doctrine today.
The majority of the Alexandrian text witch are the oldest text ever find, have the word Theos=God and these text must represented the best proofs for sure!
Meaning that Jesus is the only one God is perfectly clear,not only Jesus is God but he his the only true God.This in perfect term mean "I Am " "I Am the Father I Am the Only God" God in flesh=Jesus=The logos We cannot interpret this because it is a clear statement,we cannot say "is a small god"
The Father was not begotten the Spirit was not begotten
It's got to be blindness, not corruption.
What is the difference between SON & begotten OR son & offspring? consider son & descendant.
In this case of The Creator: what do you think The Creator (GOD) produced as HIS offspring? a physical animal? a physical person or perhaps an spiritual being? "NONE OF THIS".
Use your brain; a dog will produce another dog, a human will produce another of his spice. So GOD will produce another of HIS oun type, A god. John 1:1 & the word was A god.
John 1:18 YES: The Supreme entity gave birth to only one of HIS oun genetics or substance. What genetics? GOD's genetics.
GOD gave birth to another god, son, offspring, descendent, child. No, there is no corruption.
Peter, Paul, John, etc., were begotten sons of God. Your Bible says so. Now what?
You have to take 100% of the books information in the event of The (word) son of God; Jesus was given to existence before all things the book illustrates this event with a pregnancy, so the entity Son of God was produced & became a living being. The Creator God Almighty, in this creation first step, conceive one of His oun spice, a god, not from spiritual realm because heaven was not yet created; spiritual heaven was creation's 2nd step Nej 9:6. To this extent the son is not a common spirit, he is a superior creature given to existence at ETERNITY. The humans were transformed from one spice to another. John 1:1c it is time you humans get use to understand that the (word) Jesus, is the only one of the same spice as The Creator.He is unique, the unigenitus, only born, (not begotten) but
ONLY begotten from The Almighty.
Except that the Bible says otherwise.
So you didn't prove anything with your "point" on the Bible as evidence in court.
Totally convoluted, I too haven't seen any translation say that.
There is no word "son" in John 1:18 according to best sources. The word 'god' is used.
The 'god' part here is Jesus, but not in any Trinitarian way - many others are called 'god' in the Bible: The Israelites, Moses and even Satan (1 Cor 4:4) are all called 'god' in a particular sense, and certain Jesus was greater than those, but ONLY the Father is uniquely called the Almighty.
Only the FATHER, the Creator, is Almighty.
That's a great post...
I don't know why so many Trinity ppl and so many Unitarian ppl can't both see that the word God or god is used in the new testament to describe satan...2 cor 4:4
Our appetite is called god in Phil 3:19
King Herod called god in acts 12:22
Paul was called god in acts 28:16...
And in this verse also...
Act 14:11 NASB - When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they raised their voice, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have become like men and have come down to us.”
Jesus called judges god in john 10:34-36..
The man of lawlessness is called god in 2 Thess 2:4....
Theos is the Greek word for God, and is used of the most high and only one true God over 1300 times
But that name God can be used to show that other ppl or false god's can share that title....
Jesus has a God..
Jhn 20:17 NASB - Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”
And the son of God declares how many YHWH there is...
Mar 12:28 NASB - One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the fnforemost of all?”
Mar 12:29 NASB - Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
@@kevinmichaelhughes4257 called God but not by nature
I look in on begotten is not this not what it saying or am I wrong it seem like it put there.
And what about God saying to Moses: "I have made you a god onto Pharaoh and Aaron your brother, your prophet."
Did God the Almighty make Moses into a "false god"?
Who is greater, Moses or Jesus?
Clearly, what made Moses "a god" was the very same one who made Jesus "a god" - there is NO inconsistency.
And then you add John 1:18... where is the problem?
The only thing that is the problem is the Trinity itself - there is ONE Almighty God who can indeed make many 'lesser' gods. That is the TRUTH!
Yes. Even if we accept the only begotten God reading in Jn1:18 it doesn't prove the Deity of Christ. God can't be begotten and God is invisible and Christ unfolds the Father in such a full and perfect way that God can call the Son a god in a representational way.
There is no escaping this fact. Jesus Himself confirmed it in John 10. Those to whom the word of God came can be called gods. Still, YHWH is one and there is no other.
@@jb_1971 - Indeed, YHWH is the Father and as a Father he has sons, but only one of them was directly created by him and the scriptures leave in no doubt who he is.
Jesus and his *_elevated_* position relative to the angels and us, this is mistaken by trinitarians and then rose-coloured glasses take over rather than rational thought. There is no problem in describing by John that Jesus is *_god-like_* as he does in John 1 and elsewhere.
Let's look at examples:
Satan is called the "god of this world".
Moses is called a "god" onto Pharaoh.
Even the Israelites were called "gods" because they had a powerful relationship with the only true *_Almighty God._*
Jesus too can be described as a "god" in that context and that is what John did.
And John also records in 20: 17 that his disciples were "my brothers" and that they shared the same Father (only one) and having as the same God.
If the trinity was correct,then...
*_Why does Jesus worship the Father as his God?_*
Here it is, the words of Jesus to Mary Magdalene *_after_* his resurrection:
_"Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to _*_my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”_*_ Mary Magʹda·lene came and brought the news to the disciples."_
thank you. love your explanation.
1
John 4:8 God is love.
Love cannot Exist alone, has to be in company that’s
where the members of the Trinity comes in.
the Father is God. (1 Cor. 8:6). Jesus
is God. (John 1:1). The Holy Spirit is God. (Heb. 3:7 is Quoting Ps.95:7). Today,
if you will hear His voice. I’m so sorry you can’t see that
And Jesus Christ's God?
Trinity is a Valentinian doctrine. As for the Montanists they misunderstood the trinity. A court of law would chuck the whole bible genius.
JWs also promote this gnostic verse
Jesus gave up his flesh so no bodily resurrection
@wertyh1111 Christians are begotten of God.
Correct. All begotten sons of God in scripture are creatures, creations of God. Jesus is a begotten son of God so he is a creature created by God.
To understand why theologians and many others talk so much nonsense one must understand that they come from arts and humanities backgrounds. They don't know the difference between facts and ideas. Getting something wrong does not make their work fail in public view, often with disastrous consequences. They love and thrive on BS.
I could go with either God or Son.
But Son fits better.
But either way any son born of a God becomes a God at least in nature.
But yes his Father would still have all power unless given to his son.
Yes God gives his son the same power he has to fulfill the prophecy for all humankind , but many believe Jesus is God the Creator of all things , Jesus Christ never said he was God himself , he said if you see me then you are looking at God , why he said that because he is the exact image of his father his God , our God to all ,
“Islam critiqued” is really hammering you in a video. I would think with all his puffed up slams he would act differently seeing this I about Gods book, and to do things in love. Your not a bully in your videos. Sad this guy is going about his views the way he is . Information is information, caring and sharing in a Godly manner is what you do. Don’t know if you have seen the video, not worth the energy. 😬
yes i agree with you there sir .
Jesus is called the only begotten god of the Father because he's the beginning of Jehovah God's creation Rev 3:14
Why aren't the millions of angels also called begotten gods? After God created Jesus, everything else was created through Jesus & for him Jn1:3 Heb1:2 Col 1:16
JHVH didn't create another Almighty, this would be polytheism He created a son who's abilities are beyond human but are not equal to his. JAH gives people & beings the title elohim to those he gives power&authority
Bryan you are reading your man made theology into the Bible. That’s the best the watch tower society can do.Sorry
IN order for the WORLD to be saved, GOD had to do it!! GOD is without sin, an only GOD can save man from his sins. Jesus said which one of YOU can convict Me of sin. Every man or women that ever lived is under the penaty of SIN, there is none , no not 1 that is righteous-ALL have sinned and falls short of the Glory of GOD an NEEDS a SAVIOR!!! 1 JOHN SAYS , He who does NOT believe that JESUS is COME IN THE FLESH is of anti-christ!! That means that Jesus was there from the beginning and was BORN - IN TIME. bethlehem, of a VIRGIN. yet his goings forth have been from old from EVERLASTING!! GOD has come in the flesh an dwelt among us or pitched his tent with US. Thats the whole point of Scripture. JOHN says by him all things were Created. 1 john completes this by saying -WE beheld HIS GLORY, touched him , ate with HIM. was this just a MAN!! No way -this Jesus was much more an can say. IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME-you HAVE seen the FATHER. i and my father are ONE. Scripture adds that JESUS is the Express Image of GOD. Its so CLEAR.
God did do it. He sent His son and that's how HE did it.
how can Jesus be praying to the Father at Gethsemane ?? and when Jesus asked God Why has he forsaken him ?? If Jesus was God ?
( IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME-you HAVE seen the FATHER) is Jesus Has the same character and Divinity and the same purpose in mind as the Father
Um no. Try that again.
I am of the thinking that John 1:18 is most accurately translated only-begotten god, simply because many of the oldest manuscripts do have god not son. My question is how can the use of god in this verse possibly support the Trinity? In my opinion it is the single most important verse in the first chapter of John that clearly shows without a doubt that Jesus and Yahweh the Creator are two separate beings with Jesus being the subordinate of the two. When the word god is being used it is to show that Jesus is the son of God the Creator therefore he is a god in himself. The same as the son of a human is human. We cant escape that Jesus is called a god in John 1:1 (this is in all early translations). For this reason I think it is critical for disproving the Trinity that John 1:18 should stay "only-begotten god" so people see that Jesus is begotten. In other words Jesus is a god who has been born from another greater God, Yahweh the Creator. The God of the old testament simply cannot be "begotten", for he has always been.
We need to remember there are many gods. but there is a single worthy God and Creator. Remember that 2 Corinthians 4:4 calls Satan the devil god (that is god of this system), using exactly the same word found for god in John 1. That doesn't mean that he is the Creator or Yahweh.
Daniel Mullins if he is begotten, he cannot say that he is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end. It also says in the Bible that jesus is the creator of all things!!!
@@ShakeelEklegomai This seems to confuse the Scriptures which teach otherwise. The verb is used: God says to Jesus "I begot you" several times in Scripture. And the adjective is used: Jesus is God's begotten Son. The fact that Jesus preexists all creation, was involved in creating the world and will be around after it is destroyed means he can be called "the alpha and the omega". But that does not make him to be GOD Himself.
You're right on the money with the correct translation in John 1:18 being "only begotten god". It really doesn't support trinitarian doctrine. Either way, it is clearly the correct translation: P66 (end of 2nd century), P75 (3rd century), Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (both 4th century) all have "only begotten god". No Greek manuscript before the 5th century has "only begotten Son". Why would someone want to use the faulty evidence ("only begotten Son") unless they (like the trinitarians did in the 4th century) require it to be so for their pre-determined doctrine (in this case, to not have Jesus preexisting his incarnation as a "begotten god"). Interesting, how the cards are played.
'' ...ho monogenes huios'' not ''ho monongenes theos''.
Why can not God be a Trinity? Not only, "Why Jesus is not God," but rather, "How do I know that God is not a Trinity?" (Or four or five).
עמיחי אלימלך The question isn't about what can hypothetically be. The question is about what is.
Because the Bible never says God is a trinity and God is one, not three. Stop.reading your fallible ideas into scripture.
You always try to show why Jesus can not be God in the flesh, but how do you explain why the concept of the Trinity is a mistake? God is a Trinity, but it did not materialize in the flesh, how do you refute that?
עמיחי אלימלך Sorry, but I can't make any sense out of your question.
Could you please present your proof regarding God is trinity and also whether the concept of trinity is in old & new testament.
Please do not present your philosophy, just stick with the context of the chapters and other examples that we read in bible. Such as Elohim, although God is called, false gods are called, but also man of God (YHWH) also called and named by God- Psalms 82:6.
Where does the bible mention the trinity. Its a lie! Reject it!
i think ppl need to read it in original language hebrew or greek other than that confusion an mistranslation will take place.
I like
The Trinity Delusion
μονογενὴς Θεὸς does not mean " only begotten God" it means " one of a kind G-d" or "one and only G-d"
Yea
Monogenes does not mean here to be born it mean one and only.
@@moaznajeeb4607 it does not
Only one true God!
But who then is that in THE OLD TESTAMENT?
Is that not GOD'S Son?
It would be Jesus Christ's God
No. The angel of the Lord in the OT was a powerful glorious angel who represented the Deity and was the spokesman for God. It never says it was Christ.
Amazing how Trinitarians try to act as if they are logical when their whole conclusion of what they believe is illogical. They have three 100% gods making one 100% god. How do you argue with such fools? You can't. A fool hath no delight in understanding.
2fast2block I used to be a Trinitarian, but I began to question it because when you read the birth narratives you have the problem of the Holy Spirit rather than the Father seeming to be the Father, which calls the whole thing into question. But that was only the beginning. And it was a hard fought battle getting out of it. Its even harder when you're a preacher and your congregation expects to hear Trinitarianism.
David Brainerd I can relate to much of what you're saying. In my younger days I just didn't question what I was taught much because I just figured the "experts" had good reason to teach what they did. Yet, I read a lot about health matters back then and clearly saw I'm the one responsible on what I accept and put down my throat for food, drink and medicine. I am responsible for me.
Later, about 35 years ago, I got to questioning what I put in my brain to believe and I was NOT going to accept anything that didn't fit with the facts and make sense. Back then there was no internet and you really had to do a lot to get info. I was stupid enough to think that strongly searching for truth and sharing it was somehow "glorious" because of the evidence I had. Anyway, LONG story short, if you're truly seeking truth, be ready for a lot of rejection. It will sting like hell, but...
As you know, your duty is to please God. In the end, it is you that is responsible for what you accepted to believe. It is also your duty to share what you've learned, and those that reject it for no sound reason, then they are responsible for rejecting it. I've shared with MANY and I must admit, they lost much of my respect, but I also know, some have actually later "saw the light" and it may take time. I wasn't overnight for me either, but damn, I wasn't so hard-headed as most.
I really admire your stand.
illogical. that GOD could reveal Himself in a plurality. is nothing impossible with GOD. how bout LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE. who is US and OUR.!!! baptize in the NAME of THE FATHER,THE SON,AND THE HOLY GHOST. The is the Definite article 3 persons 1 GOD. WHY DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT. god SAYS my GLORY will i not give to another. sure looks like SON and HOLY SPIRIT are EQUAL IN THAT STATEMENT!!!
Bob, wonderful, and your conclusion is:
All three are 100% gods and they make one 100% god.
This is what I said in the opening statement:
"Amazing how Trinitarians try to act as if they are logical when their whole conclusion of what they believe is illogical."
Admit it, you love being confused. Admit, your whole goal is being confused. If you're not confused, then you can't know whatever god you're trying to refer to.
not at all. READ the scripture- READ ISAIAH an see who God is an what he says about himself!! there are at least 10 versus or more that when GOD describes who he is. THE only Savior. first and last . holy one of israel-alpha and omega-these titles JESUS says about HIMSELF . why did Paul say jesus was GOD in bodily FORM. an that JESUS did not need to grasp at diety -he already had it. micah 5;2 tells us jesus THE MAN was born in bethlehem but his goings forth were from EVERLASTING. want more.
john 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. SO NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD EXCEPT FOR GOD LOL
so which belief is the right one im guessing you will say ur beleif and i guess a million people will say other wise.theres a jesus on every corner which one has tickled your fancy.
You are wasting your time trying to prove that Jesus is not God.
Good luck on great judgment when he will judge your false doctrines ....🎉
Jesus made it more than clear that the only God is his God.
WRONG AGAIN TD, gnostic gospels came a few hundred years later, though the concept was around earlier, but JESUS DIETY was preached by the apsotles an especially JOHN who called jesus GOD and said Jesus was the CREATOR. i BUTRESS that with JOHN 1. We beheld HIS GLORY -jesus Glory. we touched HIM ate with HIM. is that just a man that he was talking about?? i think not.wake up TD an read the scriptures. stop twisting it!!
Bob Free he didn't say Jesus was creator but rather what the creator used to make creation. Jesus is the Word Of God and God created through his word. All things were made through him and for him, without him nothing that was made was made. Luke 6:45 Jesus teaches our words come from the overflow of the heart, Gods word was Jesus and God is (holy spirit is the father) in Jesus and Jesus is in Him(The Word). This makes Jesus eternal with God and one with God. He was begotten after being spoken but again dwelt within Gods heart even before then making him one with God. God is creator, the Word is the means of creation. God's Word obeyed the will of God whom he came from and loves God and God loves him and is the fullness of his glory and power and majesty. So yes the father is greater than the son and the son is one with the father. It's one God, The Father and Lord Jesus Christ. The trinity is false because God is spirit and you CANNOT separate the Father from the Holy Spirit. Revelation has 2 on the throne God and his Lamb.
brian , your all over the place in your answer-where do i start. john 1 says the WORD was with God and God. Jesus was the creator of all things. 1 john corroborates it all an says WE beheld HIS (jesus) glory an ate with him , touched HIM. This was GOD with us. john also adds if you do not believe that Jesus is COME in the FLESH then that spirit is of anti-christ. Jesus was NEVER created an if that is so then WHO was HE!! micah says born IN TIME, but from EVERLASTING. i would also point you too Revelations where ALL creatures Worship the LAMB. both have thrones and both sit in one throne. For two thousand years the church fathers right from the beginning call jesus LORD AND GOD. what your spewing out is theo-babble an your own ideas. what im saying is what scripture states. polycarp pupil of john calls jesus LORD and GOD. the BIBLE says Baptize in all 3 persons. NOW why would it say that. i would suggest you read Isaiah and truly find out WHO GOD is and what HE says. I AM GOD an there is none like me . I am the ONLY SAVIOR. Jesus is the SAVIOR. thats just 1 example.The Holy SPIRIT speaks, directs and is a person ie personality. All 3 are GOD and all 3 relate in BAPTISM!!!
Bob Free Jesus is the Word which was in YWHW. By this definition alone yes he is the creator. But it's more complex than this as its really the Father who is creator and Jesus is the Word which God used to create everything including light itself and is himself the very glory of God and his exact representation. The trinity is incorrect because it separates the Father from the holy spirit which is blasphemy. If you read John 1:3 it says everything was made through him. Same is in Colossians 1:15-16. It never says he's the creator, but rather all creation was "made through him and for him". Scripture is clear as far back as genesis, God created THROUGH his Word. Yes Jesus is God, Yes Jesus is eternal, Yes he's one with Father, Yes the Father is greater then He.
Bob Free Jesus is the Word which was in YWHW. By this definition alone yes he is the creator. But it's more complex than this as its really the Father who is creator and Jesus is the Word which God used to create everything including light itself and is himself the very glory of God and his exact representation. The trinity is incorrect because it separates the Father from the holy spirit which is blasphemy. If you read John 1:3 it says everything was made through him. Same is in Colossians 1:15-16. It never says he's the creator, but rather all creation was "made through him and for him". Scripture is clear as far back as genesis, God created THROUGH his Word. Yes Jesus is God, Yes Jesus is eternal, Yes he's one with Father, Yes the Father is greater then He.
Brian , you must read scripture for what it says, yes God is complex within HIS nature. That is, we as humans are a singular being and GOD is much more for lack of better words to describe the INFINITE. Jesus IS the Creator and by HIM all things are created thats what scripture says and backs it up with more scripture so there is no confusion. Jesus says i make my father known, and if you have seen me you have seen the father and now you KNOW HIm. john 14-7. In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth. NOW who is GOD in this statement? Then it says the holy spirit moved across the face of the waters. it did not say he was some force but HE is in the creation. ALL 3 were GOD . there can be no other conclusion. Baptize again in all 3 Names. why would the scripture say this. it would be real blasphemy as only GOD SAVES. Because all 3 are GOD, an that was understood by John and all the apostles and passed down to the pupils Polycarp, iganatius just to name a few. How can GOD in isiaah say there is no other Savior but ME!! Jesus later tells the apostles that the SPIRIT will give you knowledge of ALL things. again this is GODS work and would be blasphemous . conclusion all 3 are GOD. in fact the largest of all new testament scholars state same. Your saying things from your own opinion. i go by what scripture says. Jesus tells us when he was ascending, spread the GOSPEL and Baptize all in Father, SON, Spirit. this is the whole thing. God says besides me there is no other GOD, no other savior , no other GLORY. yet all 3 have that same Glory and FUNCTION within the Godhead.go back to the sources brian.
"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." One can hardly be more inclusive than that. There is simply nothing that is existent anywhere that was not created by the Word. He created everything. Obviously, therefore, if one can be described as creating everything, one must be the Creator, and certainly not a creation. The Word is the Creator. All people reading John's words would undertand that the Creator is God, not some lower being created by God to do the work for Him. By not qualifying his statement, John assured that we could correctly understand his intention and his teaching concerning Christ, the Word. He is eternally God
The word is God the Father. The son isn't mentioned in Jn1:1. It actually literally says: and God was the word. Only on divine person is in view in Jn1:1, God the Father. The Father created all things. Jn1:3 Only God the Father is said to be the one Creator of all things. Rv4:11 The Father is the only true God. Jn17:3 The Father is greater than Jesus. Jn14:28 The Son is subject to His God forever.1Cor15:24,28