Noisy Water Pipe Hammering Tips - Plumbing Maintenance and Repairs
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2014
- www.homebuildingandrepairs.com... Click on this link for more information about plumbing, maintenance and home repairs. Noisy water pipe hammering can be a big problem and actually leads to some of the most expensive home repairs you can imagine. This is a problem that must be fixed as soon as possible and if you're having problems with noisy pipes clanging around after you shut off a water valve or water faucet, then one of these tips just might provide you with a solution to your problem.
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I personally heard that hammer erectors should be mounted as close to the item causing the problem like a valve or washing machine as possible to properly prevent hammering pipes in other parts of your house. Another thing copper pipes can get loose and cause this problem to amplify so look for any loose mounts or supports in your walls or ceiling.
I have the same problem,thank you for the information
Hi great information, what PSI do you recommend to set on the pressure regulator
Thank you, Greg. I am also planning to replace all the plumbing in my house, but for different reasons. Copper only last about 10 years in my neighborhood for some unknown reason, so I am switching to cpvc.
My limit experience, but significant online research confirms your results. Reducing water pressure will reduce your water hammer the most. I wish you would have mentioned your water pressure before and after installing the pressure regulator. I have never had water hammer in my house, and it may be because my water pressure is only 40 psi.
By the way, I have read that water arrestors need to be near the source of water hammer, which is near the quick-closing valve.
I have two sets of air chambers (old-fashioned way of absorbing water hammer with a vertical air-filled pipe); one on my master bathroom sink and one at my kitchen sink. There should be one near my clothes washing machine, but there isn't and I still don't have water hammer. My local state code requires one by every quick-closing valve.
My online research indicates that air chambers become waterlogged over time and become ineffective. I searched and couldn't find a video demonstrating this. I am seriously thinking about making one out of clear tubing so I can see if the air pocket slowly goes away. I also want to see if the water becomes stagnant...another concern of mine. If the water does stagnate (not turn over), my hope is that the chlorine in the city-provided water will prevent any bacteria/mold from growing. Wish me well.
I actually installed a pressure regulator, but it didn't solve the problem in the long run. I will provide everyone on the site with more information when I finally solve the problem. I'm curious, why aren't you using pexs as a water supply system.
gregvancom It has been a long time since I decided to go with cpvc, so I can't remember exactly why. To the best of my memory, the two plumbers I discussed the job with suggested cpvc, and when I went to a local hardware store the sales rep said most people go with cpvc if they aren't using copper. Pex seemed to be used more for mobile homes. This preference may just be a local thing...I live in South Florida. Maybe pex is used more elsewhere in the country.
I think you're right, Pex seems to be more available in Southern California where I'm from. There actually using Pex in a lot of new construction out here and I would imagine it has a lot to do with the price of copper. Good luck on your project I hope everything works out.
Thanks for your valuable time
Thanks for everyone who has provided me with suggestions, but recently the water heater went out and once it was replaced that was the end of our problem. I actually thought it was the water heater, because I didn't have any problems and the water pressure didn't increase, but I'm glad that it's over with, even though I don't know exactly what would've caused the water heater to create this problem. Any suggestions would be great.
Do you have a buffer/thermal expansion tank installed? if you don't, you likely need to install one because building code has changed in a lot of areas and water districts have been upgrading people's water meters without notifying them and one of the things the new meters have are check valves. Once you have a water meter with a check valve, you now have a closed plumbing system and one of the things that is required is a thermal expansion tank within your house plumbing, plumbed anywhere on the cold side. Tank is pressurized 10psi above expected water pressure in the house and it's suppose to reduce water hammer and expansion from heated water from the water heater adding pressure to the water system in the house.
Hi Greg, you've tried several thing to solve your water hammering. All the methods you used can work. Please note, I've solved water hammering by using several reducers. If your incoming tubing is 3/4, use 3/4 on the 1st floor then 1/2 on 2 nd floor & so on. On the last floor or the highest shower or last water out let furthest from the incoming line, in stall the air/ water trap with a separate cutoff. Please note, you can make a water trap. Before turning you main water on i.e. From the main, turn the air/water trap cutoff in the off position, turn on main then the highest shower so that the waterline fills except the trap. Turn on that last, water hammering would be absent.
+Eric Edwards I'm still trying to solve problem, but I have a three-quarter inch line from the water meter to the gate valve or water shut off to the house, where it reduces to a half inch, goes underneath the slab to the water heater where it changes back to three-quarter inch and runs through the rest of the home.
The arrestor needs to be placed as close to the “problem” valve as possible. If your wash machine is causing hammer, then install an arrestor next to your wash machine hose hookup.
Think of it like this: water flowing is a large column of solid water all moving at once. Stopping it suddenly is like stopping a freight train. All that momentum needs somewhere to go. An arrestor is a shock absorber. If you install an arrestor way back at your water heater then it’s too far away to do any good. Several manufacturers have wash machine boxes, dishwasher boxes, etc with built in arrestors for this exact reason.
This is the area where it was making the most noise and still is. I installed an arrestor as close to the toilet water supply shut off as I could and it still causing it to hammer in this area which is about 40 feet away. Any suggestions from any plumbers will be greatly appreciated.
The short answer. Use PEX piping and strap it fully and securely. Problem solved. The long answer.
Water hammer is most noticeable when valves shut off or are shut off quickly. The solenoid valves in dishwashers and washing machines have been quick acting and so a source of the pressure waves that lead to hammering. I think some newer machines are now using slow closing valves but I don't have any definite information.
Shock arrestors should not be installed on the side of the pipe as shown with the Minirestor at your hot water tank. The arrestors should be in line and at the end of a run of pipe on a t'ee with water flow to the source off the branch of the t'ee. As well arrestors ideally should be as close to the source of the shock as possible.
That being said there may be a concern that as with any 'dead end' section of piping the water in an arrestor may become a breeding ground for Legionella bacteria. The volume of water trapped in these devices is small, just a few drops really but in my opinion domestic water systems should, ideally, be designed to eliminate any section of piping that isn't flushed by daily usage.
Someone, perhaps Watts makes or made a flow through shock arrestor, essentially a rubber tube surrounded by a metal shell, water enters at one end and exits the other. It looks much like an expansion tank (which are really compression tanks but they are always called expansion tanks) with a pipe connection on each end.
Speaking of expansion tanks, you may find yourself in need of one, now that you've installed that PRV. The reason; cold water expands as it is heated. Long showers etc. and the tank will have a lot of cold water in it. The water is heated, expands, and can no longer push back through to the municipal supply as the new PRV prevents that. Pressure keeps going up till the Pressure Relief Valve (T&P) on the tank starts to weep and water then drips out tube and onto the floor or drain pan. A Domestic Potable Water Expansion Tank will solve the issue if that proves to be a problem in your case.
Finally to address the main problem the noise of banging, squeaking, creaking pipes the solution is adequate support with suitable isolating pipe straps. To reduce noise, copper pipes, particularly the hot, should never be in direct contact with wood or other parts of the building structure... as a rule of my thumb. Clamps such as the Astro Alpha and the Astro Omega are my usual choice for 1/2 and 3/4 inch copper piping. canadianastro.com/allinfopop.html
The Alpha can be used to keep a pipe centered in a hole preventing knocking, banging or squeaking. In new construction the Astro Delta is convenient and fast.
www.siouxchief.com/products/support/supply-hangers/plastic-cts has similar products. The key is well supported pipe, separated from the building structure by a low friction clamp or a rubber lined clamp such as the MicroFx (or MicroFix?).
Having said all that... use PEX. Use copper for exposed piping (stub outs etc.) and PEX for everything in the walls or under the floors. PEX has an inherent flexibility that goes a long ways to eliminating all types of pipe noises, it's easy to work with, much cheaper than copper, can in a retrofit be fished through walls and... well... it's just better. We hope. Time will tell.
Best of luck and take care
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and is greatly appreciated. I probably won't be switching to Pex, seems how I just installed copper. Again, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
Chee Kay I loved your reply and I wanted to say well said Sir, the only bit I'm not in totally agreement with you is the part about PEX, I'm old school so I do prefer copper, I do occasionally use PEX if it's awkward to get a length of copper through, but this is an interesting story for you, I have honestely had to fix a leak before because a mouse had eaten into the PEX pipe and I've never seen that happen with copper. All the best to you and everyone else from me here in the UK. 🤗
Also of note, is that the flue on the water heater has 3 90* fittings, which can easily present draft problems. I'm especially weary of the back to back 90 just above the draft hood, because each 90* fitting presents the same resistance as 10+ ft of straight pipe does.
One could easily adjust 2 of the elbows to be 45* and eliminate the third elbow in the middle. The gradual turn to horizontal will allow much better draft, and reduce the chance of flue gas spilling out of the draft hood.
Another way would be to take the flue straight off the top of the hood, and take it horizontal towards the existing pipe and use a second elbow adjusted to the proper angle if things don't quite line up right...
BPM Productions of Colorado Thanks for sharing with us and you are absolutely right. 2 - 45° elbows with possibly a pipe in between would work better and probably meet local building codes.
Would it make sense to install near the handles? That's where the abrupt stop is and that force is still geing dispersed through the pipes before it hits your reservoirs. If you could stop it earlier I think that would be key.
It's kind of a hit and miss or trial and error method and I think you're on the right path. Install them where you think they will do the most good and if it doesn't work, don't be surprised.
Greg when you run a copper pipe underground, do you wrap it in a special plastic, or foam so concrete wont cut into it from nature vibration over the years. good work.
Yes as a matter of fact most building codes require copper pipes to be wrapped underground. And it's a good idea to wrap all plumbing pipes with some type of expansive material like foam or cardboard in areas where they will be running through concrete.
I would try installing a expansion tank to take the extra pressure off of the line that way you don't have to turn your prv down so much and lose pressure
very helpful
I have a same vibration problem,I changed water tank fill valve of the toilet,the problem is fixed.
i have low water pressure, and it hums constantly. when i shut off the main the mum stops. i suspect a leak but when i close the sprinkler, the hum continues, so i suspect the hot water tank. is this possible
your pressure reducing valve should be about 55psi. You should also put a expansion tank for your HWH. When using your water Hammer I would put one at the further fixture. with these 3 things you will have your water pressure equally through the house and the humming and noise should be gone. Before doing so check your aerator the screen where the water comes out in your kitchen faucet it could be clogged up from turning the water back on
I imagine you have a resonant hammer feedback between the heater (like a big electrical capacitor) and the various pipe circuits (big electrical coil). Just turn off the hot inlet to check that, but be careful not to re-pressurize the hot circuit during testing through a combined fixture or appliance. Dampen all the pipe circuits with hammer arrestors *at the ends* of each circuit (or plumbing leg). That's where the hammer pressure both peaks and gets reflected.
If it's still a problem you may be able to put the regulator on just the heater inlet, and you might only need a slight adjustment to prevent the hammer feedback.
Thanks for the feedback, but it's still difficult for me to understand. I did have a pressure regulator in front of the water heater, on the cold inlet side about 8 feet away and it did help, but would imagine reduced the water pressure by about 40% and still had a couple of fixtures that were knocking when using.
Those hammer arrestors in the right place are important. Water moves very fast through pipes and has a lot of inertia. If the flow stops instantly, since water does not compress, there is a huge pressure spike that can damage valves or pipes. The hammer arrestor or air chamber *is* compressible, so absorbs and dampens that pressure like a shock absorber. Without it a pressure wave will bounce back down the pipe, pressurize the water heater, which because of it's size expands a little, like a spring, and re-pressurizes the line again and the process starts over like a ping pong ball bouncing back and forth from the heater to one end of a pipe and back again. That's why the hammer arrestor needs to be out at the ends, not at the heater. The heater is at the source of pressure for the hot water circuit, but the hammer happens out where valves are and in the direction of flow from the heater. One arrestor at the end of a pipe run usually takes care of the entire run because it allows the water to bounce softly a little when a valve slams off hard.
I actually installed a large pipe arrestor at the end of the line that fed a toilet and it didn't make any changes at all. Keep in mind that the plumbing didn't make any noise at all for about five years or from the time we purchased the home and when I started adding arrestors, was surprised that they didn't work and that's when I started thinking that it was the water heater.
Not all underground pipes have to be insulated as long as ya below the freezing point (18-24) deep think out it when u dig up and re do a water main(pipe from the pit by street to your house) its never insulated but insulating a pipe in ground also only take 10 15 min pending on how much
Our faucet and pipe make a huge noise and water flow goes way down when the hot water side was turned on. After a year, I followed one of the comments here to check the valve controlling water into the faucet and turned it fully open. Problem solved!
Excellent point and thanks for sharing your experience with us.
The other tank is a # 30 the 30 goes on water main and the excroll tank goes on w/h i believe there both 26-46 dollar items check plumbing supply they will know
check your shut off valves, change those flex lines to copper hardlines, water heater needs expansion tank. But seriously it's usually some type of bad valve.
Can you elaborate on the bad valve? Would it need replacing? Have a similar issue in my garage on top of my water heater- somewhere…. It knocks a few times with the valve open, and then it does not with the valve closed.
Water hammer is caused by a variety of reasons. Size of piping , water pressure, fixtures and appliances, the installation, and the relationship of these things to each other. The noise is a banging of the pipes by the momentum of the water coming to an abrupt stop. You obviously have / had, excess PRESSURE. Instead of thinking in percents, put a gauge on your system, and set the pressure regulator to about 45- 50 psi. A place to start. Looking at you photo's the install could use some work. Where pipes pass through framing,use "insulators", or foam. When strapped to structure, do not use "holey iron strapping", use approved hangers securley fastened. You should be able to grab your pipe work and shake it with no noise.Make sure your pipes are sized correctly.( 1/2" to 1 fixture only) Small piping increases velocity of the water, which can cause hammer when a faucet is closed. Which fixture, when shut off, causes the hammer? Look there for the problem / solution, could install a mini restor there. Probably need to clean out the areator ( or throw away the flow restrictor ) on the kitchen faucet. You are confusing pressure with flow. The kitchen faucet is not the problem.
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with me. I will do a better job securing the pipes to the framing. Now for another question if you don't mind, the water pressure throughout the house has been drastically reduced (yet not tested for pressure) and is definitely not appreciated by my wife. Do you have any ideas on how I could raise the water pressure, while eliminating the hammering?
It is definitely on the cold side and you bring up an interesting point I've never heard of before. The only problem with that is that the cold water supply doesn't go through the water heater.
I'll give it a shot.
The location of the arrestor should be placed along the plumbing within 6 ft of the outlet/appliance causing the hammering.
So the products where you installed them are not the cause of your noisy pipes.
Greg, I don't know if you've fixed your issue by now. As a mechanical engineer with some understanding of water hammer perhaps I can explain a few details that might lead you to success this.
You're on the right track describing that the pressure has nowhere to go when you shut the valve, but it's actually the momentum/inertia of the moving water that causes the hammering. Water is pretty heavy, and the long 'column' of water snaking through the pipe is all moving relatively quickly. When you shut the valve at the end, the energy of that column of moving water all suddenly transfers to the pipe, effectively attempting to move the pipe in the direction the water was flowing. (Imagine the head of a hammer sliding along inside the pipe and suddenly hitting the end)
The water hammer arrestor (mini-restor, or air chamber) act like a spring/damper, allowing that column of water (again, imagine the sliding hammer) to have somewhere to go, and be able to slow down gently. (More in my reply)
(Continued) - But the hammer arrestor only gives an escape/damping path for any water BEFORE (supply/street side) the point where the arrestor is. So unfortunately to work most effectively, you must put the arrestor as close to the end of your plumbing as possible, usually near the plumbing fixtures/valves that are causing the most noise.
I moved into a new house where the washing machine caused loud water hammer. It was the farthest thing from my water supply, and thus had a very long pipe of moving water. Installing a set of mini-restors at the far end right where the washing machine hoses connect solved my problem entirely. HomeDepot sells a version of the mini-restor that comes with washing machine hose connections that was perfect for me, but a permanently plumbed version like you have tried would work just as well (!! If installed at the end of the plumbing near the noisemaking faucet/device !!)
+montagueeric That's actually where I'm having my problem, at the end of the lines. I have a toilet at one end and a wash machine at the other. I already installed the water arrester on the toilet and it didn't do anything. Do you think I put it in the wrong spot. ruclips.net/video/Ll7gmlo-Ki0/видео.html
+gregvancom - That should be exactly the right spot. I can't tell from the video exact what type of arrestor that is - correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost just looks like a stub-out? If you still have the plumbing accessible and have the mini-rester from this video, I would install it on that vertical stub. Just cut the vertical and solder on a threaded adapter so you can attach the mini-rester (at least from this video it looks like it attaches with pipe threads). I'd be quite surprised if that doesn't fix the noise.
If that stub already is an arrestor, then I am very surprised it didn't have any affect.
I just might try that. I will be remodeling the bathroom eventually and appreciate your input.
in the last 6 months I have been experiencing constant banging in the line at a frequency of about 120 hz when the water is flowing. I do not experience any banging at the moment of shutting valves. The issue does not go after draining the house. I even have a pressure regulator installed at the entrance of the house to provide 60 psig. I wonder whether this is a problem at the water meter and relief valve.
It sounds like you got a tough problem. If it doesn't go away when the water is shut off and there is no longer any water flowing through the pipes, then you might not have a problem with the plumbing. I've experienced humming noises from water shut off valves that weren't stopping the water from flowing, do you think that could be your problem.
it goes away when I shut the valves.. . I thought draining the lines would fix it but it did not. it happens when when there is flow going the lines and also only at a given range of flows. Low flow or high flows no noise. I just went under into the crawling area and the noise is within the line as if the flow is changing in speed at a sinusoidal variation of 120 hz. I notice it has a low pitch that explains the banging like sound. the sound is at the feed end of end of the house. I am calling the water company I am almost sure it is their meter or he relief valve next to it that is causing this.
It wouldn't hurt and I don't know what it would be.
Water hammer is caused by rapidly closing valves. Install the water hammer arresters close to the source of the problem. Within 6 feet of... Washing machine valves, dishwasher valve, ice maker valve, shower valve, Other possible locations are the toilet, and sink faucets. You can use a inexpensive water pressure gauge to determine which valves are causing the greatest pressure spikes.
Water pressure regulators are only needed if incoming water pressure exceeds 80 PSI.
I have a new faucet by moein and now I have the problem on hot water side-- I fix it by closing the hot water valve at water heater . since I can only get 2.5 gallon per minute maximum with one or two valves open I increase the temp on hot water to compassionate for less flow of hot water .
Yes, by reducing the flow of water you can eliminate or reduce the amount of noise from your pipes.
You need to place the mini rester within 6 ft from the valve.
They sell a tank to put on water main here in ny i put 2 on one on water main above ball valve be4 water supplys house just a brass tee with brass nipple elbow and tank than one on the water heater never any banging over here ask any supply house they sell the tanks there no bigger than 20 inches in hight by 14 round and a simple taping on it with your finger tips u will know if one is bad or not it will sound full on bottom than sound hollow at top there is air in it if it sound full with water no good must be replaced if u need name let me know one of the tanks is called an excroll tank (check spelling)
Thanks for the tip, I will see if I can find that item and gather little more information about it.
Supply line kitchen Lane clog or remove the cartridge
Any suggestions for getting water hammer when washing machine is in rinse cycle? Doesn't matter whether hot or cold water. Doesn't happen on any of the other appliances. I put MiniRester on hot and cold connection on washer.
That was going to be my only suggestion, because I've seen them at my local home improvement center. Sorry I couldn't help.
Loose Faucet washers and inside washers on your angle stops!
Michael Delanzo You must have been hovering over my backyard this weekend and I would personally like to validate your comment. I will try and make a video in the future, but I had a hose bib that hammered like a son of the gun until the rubber washer actually detached as the screw holding it on fell off and I could no longer shut the water off. I replaced the rubber washer and a screw and everything is working great. Thanks for sharing.
You must instal an Expansion tank on the cold water side connecting a 3/4 inch female fitting to th cold water side of the water heater cut a piece of pipe about 6 inches put a 3/4 tee with a side exit and a top pipe to connect to the house water supply, go back to you tee and put L shape with 3/4 female fitting nto screw in the expansion tank. change both hoses to copper pipe. put a 3/4 inch valve before connecting the cold water to supply the house. Good luck
Thanks a lot for your simple explanation and it is greatly appreciated.
Is lt Normal To Hear Noise From The Water Heater Pipes .
If pipes are making a loud banging or knocking sounds, then you could have a problem that wouldn't be normal. If this doesn't answer your question, what types of sounds are your pipes making?
just wondering if anyone can help when flushing toilet its not banging its sounds like queen marys coming into dock to make it stop I have to run water either in bath or sink for the loud noise stops I cant run any taps in house when the toilet has been flushed I have to wait until system has gilled up wouldn't mind a little noise but its really loud can anyone help please
+Colin Coates i would say your pipes are old(Galvanised pipes) en maybe chalk in it ,(??) so the water cant find a way to go when you flush only by a smal hole in ur toilet, but i cant say for sure!! call a plumber to look at it ;)
install an expansion vessel
My kitchen faucet bangs the bipes while its on and running water. What is that from?
If you don't know much about plumbing, then is going to be a trial and error process. You could try replacing the faucet or installing water hammer arrestors or reducing your water pressure. My problem lasted for a year, until the water heater went out and needed to be replaced. It was the water heater.
I fixed it by cleaning the faucet airater screen
I don't think I've ever heard that work before, but am glad that you have fixed your problem and hopefully others will read your comment and give it a try also.
an expansion tank is the solution (domestic water pressure).
An expansion tank may help somewhat with water hammer. But serves a different purpose. An expansion tank absorbs slow thermal expansion from the water heater in a closed system. Such as where backflow preventers are installed. Water hammer arresters absorb rapid pressure spikes caused by valves that close quickly. But should be installed close to the source of the problem to be effective.
I have an expansion tank and a pressure regulator but still getting loud water hammer type banging by the water heater. I’m a little stumped
I have a problem with the noise every time the washer takes in water. The washer is in a room right behind my back bathroom and it hammers in the shower's turn-off controls. I have put riser on both the cold and hot water, expansion tank on the cold water side of hot water heater, risers on the bathroom showers and its still driving me crazy. Can someone help me?
I didn't hear you mention installing a pressure regulator. Sometimes the water pressure is too high and can be lowered by using a pressure regulator.
gregvancom m
There all basic items we put on every house its code here
Do I need a water hammer on everything that makes noise? ie every toilet and sink
I can't say for sure, which one's will need them. I might install one at a time and see if that solves your problem. My problem was not solved 100 percent until I replaced my water heater.
The answer is 'YES'. An arrestor within 6 ft of every noisy appliance/outlet.
Taking the 90´s off doesn´t make sense to me. But I see your house is a two story house given those line that go up the wall as i see in the video. . If that is so, the air chamber arrestor should go in the upper floor I would think, that way the air bubbles will stay in the arrestor
It's a single-story house and the air chambers usually do best near the areas where the pipes are hammering.
@@gregvancom . . perhaps install the air chamber pipe at the same height as the higher water pipe so it can keep a vacuum . . yes, I know it´s better the arrestor be near the problem spots but it´s still effective at any place in the pipe network since it´s a closed hydraulic system and pressure is constant at all points of the system per Bernoulli´s equation. Another suggestion if you still have problems is you could try an "expansion tank" which really acts as a bigger arrestor.
The water column is a bad idea. Depending upon where they are and how hot your hot water heater is set, you could breed bacteria.
You bring up a good point, sometimes by solving one problem we can create another one.
try a one-way valve ,on your cold water riser
That is a very good idea and I think I'm going to try it. Do they have one-way valves inside water heaters?
no they don't have one inside. normally (in my country) but yours as well they place a one way valve directly on your water meter and a Pressure Relief valve whit a one way valve inside on the(cold) entrance of your water heater ,if you place a one way valve to prevent water hammer , you most place it on right spot , so your cold water riser , the pipe that's going up is properly to long or to small or even to big , it could be your problem..always make sure your pipe construction is solid and secured well , and shut your faucets slowly ;)
Thanks and the only time the water hammers is when the toilet or wash machine shuts off abruptly.
Strap your pipes down for crying out loud, your house is one big pipe organ. Those flexible lines are a good start.
I have the same problem however the house is finished (from a professional buildier!) hard to strap them now!
Your better off putting an expansion tank in the basement
Thats 18 to 24" im sorry but i figured u would all understand lol good luck
you guys have bizarre building codes in the USA. Always put the shock arr-esters at the highest point in the system. The do fill up, drain entire system. The arresters around the hot water tank are useless.
I found that out the hard way, but that's where most of the noise is coming from.
Dude, you take too long to get to the point! You have good points but get to the POINT. Short and sweet.
Yes, I've heard similar suggestions, but it is what it is.