If you're about to learn or start your first game: 1. Don't play 4, 5, or 6 player. Really do start with the 3 player or 3 handed like the rulebook suggests. 2. Read the rules with the mindset that the game is trying to teach you 2 processes for expansion--military and diplomatic. Each process requires a chain of actions to complete. In order, the military process is recruit, fabricate claim, declare war, activate to move and battle, activate to siege, resolve peace. Diplomatic is influence, ally, subjugate to vassalize, influence again, subjugate to annex. I think it's a massive issue that these processes aren't outlined in the rulebook.
Totally agree on your #2 point. The chain of events to reach a desired outcome is massively important to understand and not directly spelled like that with the steps.
Finally played my first game almost a year after getting it. I was invited to play a 6 player game over 2 days. I knew the action rules so that made my plays easier, everything else was either player diplomacy or following proceedural charts and lists. Sadly, being my first play, i had no grasp of good strategies or tactics. I failed miserably (as Poland) and we only managed to play into half of the Third Age before HRE beat us so badly he won (and we called it). It was an incredible experience and when i find time i'd definitely play it again! I think i'd be happy playing it solo too, it looks incredible on the table!
My group played two full ages in a whole day, but that took an active effort to make that happen, with some 1-round training sessions before hand, a timer for each person to use as a sort of chess clock (10 minutes per person per round), and allowing players to start their turn if they won't interact with the current player. My favorite game though.
Agree with a lot of your comments - EUPOP is going to hit the mark for the people who want it to. The game/rules get much easier with time applied - however, it doesn't have to be a 4 age marathon - there are shorter scenarios that, with the right mix of players or solo, can be completed in a long day.
Well, don't expect to play this game fast in your first run! Our experience is that the game plays fast, I never feel downtime, the rounds go slow, but the turns go so quick! The hours just fly by. our group has about 15 games under our belt and it gets better and better each time! Don't forget that you can draw your action card one by one, not 3 at once! Diplomacy Still is important from turn 1. remember that with influence cubes you can get in every player his/her country! also every player can get your National event and screw you over! Big time! With a basic understanding of history and the EU PC games the rules make sense and after a few games you wont have to read the rules every turn. 10/10 game for our group!
Our first two games were disastrous (I was the only one, who knew the rules, explanations was like 90 minutes ? ) and I had to stop playing due numerous questions. Was playing Austria, managed to play one card, then decided to take event and pass. Our third game, with 3 players, first scenario, was first proper game. We all knew rules, we all played before and even if we had to check few things, it was really well spent 8hours. We managed to play almost full two ages. I am confident, that you can play 1 age in 4 hours or so, with 4 players. But the learning curve for this game is big. Its not rules heavy, but its lot of rules, exceptions and frustration due small things. I would still rather play Empire of the Sun or EuroFront, but EU is epic ride as well
I tend to agree. I have a lot of love for some of these massive games and they all have their place. With that being said, I think there’s a point where video games do outshine their board counterparts. This is a good example. It could be tons of fun, but there’s a tradeoff between playability and fun factor that you really have to consider. Like the fellas said, the computer version does so much in the background that can really slog things down when you are doing the calculations. I think we see this a lot with video games that get a board game counterpart. In my opinion, what makes those games fun doesn’t always translate well to the board game experience.
That said, playing this for several days, face to face with some like minded people, with piles of metal coins in front of you, placing and pushing wooden counters and generals across a sprawling map of Europe does sort of make this more appealing!
Playing this game while EU4 exists is insane to me. There is something to be said about the in the same room feeling only a board game provides. But multiplayer eu4 is there for you, and single player is fun as well. This is the kind of game where to play it the stars have to align, you might only get 3 or 4 chances in your whole life to play a whole game.
Hey guys, I found your video preparing for a 4-Day session between Christmas and New Years Eve, every day an age with a daily investment of 8 to 10 h max. We are a dedicated group in our (non-computer) gaming club. It is my 3rd serious play after learning the rules in the beginning about 10 Month ago and lately refreshing the rules in a tutorial game for 2 new player a couple of weeks ago. I'm still learning the game in its details but i have fun with it and with my group. In fact, we will be 7 guys who like to play the game but 1 of us just has time for 1 day. So, he plays one day and I step in for him a day later since I wanted to spend a day more with my parents on Christmas. This is all a question of organizing the play and one of us took charge to manage that thankfully. My story shall support your points of having the right group, having dedication and needing (organised) time to play. I thing I only got that much into it because I wanted to test myself in dealing with ever so comlex games and I'd like to spend time with friends in a realy involved manner. Regarding the comlexity I only wnat to say this: The board game is stil less complex than the computer game. Greetings from Germany
My main group has played both Here I Stand and Europa Universalis, and we all ended up preferring EU. I think some of the reasons is that EU looks better than HiS, and that each player has mostly the same menu of actions like Virgin Queen which we like. In HiS most of us don't want to play Papal, Ottoman or Protestant as we all prefer the gameplay that the English, French and Habsburg provides. We also love the trading aspect, event cards, advisor/action cubes etc. a bit better than the Command Points that CDG's usually use. Anyway, we will keep all of them and even has Tanto Monta on the way for the possibility for a 4 player game in the sense of HiS/VQ as EU is the only one in our view that plays well 3-6 without the use of VQ-mulitple-nations-per-player-rules. Two things we really love with HiS though is that each nation and event card feels really unique and provides a ton of historical theme, compared to EU where each nation is quite similar except that one nation has a bit easier time with exploration, another with trading and another with NPR conquest.
Glad you finally got to play this. Sadly I'm having to get my wargaming fix vicariously through you both since I'm currently navigating the "two small children requiring constant attention" portion of my life. Most complicated game i've played of late is Heroquest with a few friends! Your comments are what I expected. Long playtime, deep gameplay with too many mechanics. The rulebook, that I've attempted to start reading several times, is mentally exhausting. With all that said I'm desperate to play this and everything about the theme, visuals and mechanics encourages me one step further. Some point this year I intend to play or at least sample this game, that said its taken me 9 hours just to finish this video as I've been trying to find time to watch snippets of it! 😂
You can do it. Battletech? Solo games like Warfighter and the Hunted. If one of your little ones is old enough for basic Wings of Glory, go for it. Through the Ages digital can scratch the grand strategy itch, too.
I think it’s a fantastic game. There are shorter scenarios and scenarios for lower player counts. I also loved playing solo against bots. There is so much history in the events, mission chains, technologies/ideas, colonization, trade, conquest, diplomacy…
Best piece of advise if you play with new players TEACH them so if you see they are making obvious mistakes, or getting confused step in and offer some advice, they don't have to follow it, but also don't get annoyed or snippy if they don't. Just be friendly so if you see they have too many diplomatic cubes remind them how that might work so they can correct themselves and if an action was taken if they can 'do over' as they just did the action without causing too much disruption don't be like 'nope you did that', Don't be that guy. I placed something in a Star Trek game and then I understood, but it was placed. Luckily in that game I got Mr. Sulu and was able to move the same piece. Still be accommodating to players in a game like this with a high complexity.
"...OR you can just invade them" Bro was playing as the Ottomans lol 😂 loved that. If they are as overpowered in the board game as they are in EU4, then yeah, that makes sense.
so... wrt to "save the game". I'm not sure I'm in the market for EU ... If I'm going to spend 4 whole days playing it, there are probably other wargames I'd rather play. But you do realize that having the option to put the game away somehow is a regular thing for a lot of the larger games. (say, OCS) Plenty of people have some sort of arrangement for stashing the game away on a shelf until next play session.
I played this in their playtesting. As an absolute gaming history lover with a lot of patience, I thought it was pretty cool. BUT, I spent about 15 years now wrapping my head around Early Modern European military history for my own strategic game designs for the period. I was very disappointed that there seemed to be no mechanism or rules or cards for succession wars, which were one of the primary drivers of wars (and most of the big wars in the 1700s). I am sure it is a great game, but unless they fixed this (they said they would not when I vehemently objected in my feedback), I will not buy. Though perhaps one could come up with some house rules on this. But it would take a lot of work and playtesting itself.
This game has the worst rulebook I have ever read... even worse than Sierra Madre games. It's already an extremely complex game and, to make things difficult, they decided to replace, for no reason at all, keywords, with symbols so that on page 50 of the rulebook you have to go back to page 2 to look at a table with nore than 40 different symbols and do this back and forth to understand a text. Why not write "Trade Power" instead of having a symbol for it? This symbol is very similar to "Trade Node" by the way... and they are all super small. Then to mae things even harder for you, there are text that you have to refer to the table of 40+ symbols... only to refer to an Acronyms list... because the hexagon that means DNPR token you haven't got a clue what DNPR stands for so you consult a list of about 10 Acronyms after going through a table. Whose idea was that? The game is cool though.
Hello, Gentlemen. I like your reviews. I was trying to get in touch with you about my new game but I didn't see your email anywhere just Facebook and Instagram and twitter etc. I was hoping to introduce you to the WW2 Bomber game I am currently designing. Let me know the best way to reach. you. Thank you!
If you're about to learn or start your first game:
1. Don't play 4, 5, or 6 player. Really do start with the 3 player or 3 handed like the rulebook suggests.
2. Read the rules with the mindset that the game is trying to teach you 2 processes for expansion--military and diplomatic. Each process requires a chain of actions to complete. In order, the military process is recruit, fabricate claim, declare war, activate to move and battle, activate to siege, resolve peace. Diplomatic is influence, ally, subjugate to vassalize, influence again, subjugate to annex. I think it's a massive issue that these processes aren't outlined in the rulebook.
Totally agree on your #2 point. The chain of events to reach a desired outcome is massively important to understand and not directly spelled like that with the steps.
There's different scenarios that start at more advanced stages of the game, where players are closer together.
Finally played my first game almost a year after getting it. I was invited to play a 6 player game over 2 days. I knew the action rules so that made my plays easier, everything else was either player diplomacy or following proceedural charts and lists. Sadly, being my first play, i had no grasp of good strategies or tactics. I failed miserably (as Poland) and we only managed to play into half of the Third Age before HRE beat us so badly he won (and we called it). It was an incredible experience and when i find time i'd definitely play it again! I think i'd be happy playing it solo too, it looks incredible on the table!
My group played two full ages in a whole day, but that took an active effort to make that happen, with some 1-round training sessions before hand, a timer for each person to use as a sort of chess clock (10 minutes per person per round), and allowing players to start their turn if they won't interact with the current player. My favorite game though.
Agree with a lot of your comments - EUPOP is going to hit the mark for the people who want it to. The game/rules get much easier with time applied - however, it doesn't have to be a 4 age marathon - there are shorter scenarios that, with the right mix of players or solo, can be completed in a long day.
Well, don't expect to play this game fast in your first run! Our experience is that the game plays fast, I never feel downtime, the rounds go slow, but the turns go so quick! The hours just fly by. our group has about 15 games under our belt and it gets better and better each time! Don't forget that you can draw your action card one by one, not 3 at once! Diplomacy Still is important from turn 1. remember that with influence cubes you can get in every player his/her country! also every player can get your National event and screw you over! Big time! With a basic understanding of history and the EU PC games the rules make sense and after a few games you wont have to read the rules every turn. 10/10 game for our group!
Our first two games were disastrous (I was the only one, who knew the rules, explanations was like 90 minutes ? ) and I had to stop playing due numerous questions. Was playing Austria, managed to play one card, then decided to take event and pass. Our third game, with 3 players, first scenario, was first proper game. We all knew rules, we all played before and even if we had to check few things, it was really well spent 8hours. We managed to play almost full two ages. I am confident, that you can play 1 age in 4 hours or so, with 4 players. But the learning curve for this game is big. Its not rules heavy, but its lot of rules, exceptions and frustration due small things. I would still rather play Empire of the Sun or EuroFront, but EU is epic ride as well
This makes me think that there was a good reason that this was made into a pc game...
I tend to agree. I have a lot of love for some of these massive games and they all have their place. With that being said, I think there’s a point where video games do outshine their board counterparts. This is a good example. It could be tons of fun, but there’s a tradeoff between playability and fun factor that you really have to consider. Like the fellas said, the computer version does so much in the background that can really slog things down when you are doing the calculations. I think we see this a lot with video games that get a board game counterpart. In my opinion, what makes those games fun doesn’t always translate well to the board game experience.
That said, playing this for several days, face to face with some like minded people, with piles of metal coins in front of you, placing and pushing wooden counters and generals across a sprawling map of Europe does sort of make this more appealing!
when there are a dozen tutorials in EU2 Pc so you just play Crusader Kings instead.
to get with 6 players around a table to play the PC game is more of a hassle in my opinion!
Great review guys. This was very informative.
Playing this game while EU4 exists is insane to me. There is something to be said about the in the same room feeling only a board game provides. But multiplayer eu4 is there for you, and single player is fun as well. This is the kind of game where to play it the stars have to align, you might only get 3 or 4 chances in your whole life to play a whole game.
Great review as always.
Hey guys,
I found your video preparing for a 4-Day session between Christmas and New Years Eve, every day an age with a daily investment of 8 to 10 h max. We are a dedicated group in our (non-computer) gaming club. It is my 3rd serious play after learning the rules in the beginning about 10 Month ago and lately refreshing the rules in a tutorial game for 2 new player a couple of weeks ago. I'm still learning the game in its details but i have fun with it and with my group.
In fact, we will be 7 guys who like to play the game but 1 of us just has time for 1 day. So, he plays one day and I step in for him a day later since I wanted to spend a day more with my parents on Christmas. This is all a question of organizing the play and one of us took charge to manage that thankfully.
My story shall support your points of having the right group, having dedication and needing (organised) time to play. I thing I only got that much into it because I wanted to test myself in dealing with ever so comlex games and I'd like to spend time with friends in a realy involved manner.
Regarding the comlexity I only wnat to say this: The board game is stil less complex than the computer game.
Greetings from Germany
Helpful frank assessment. I have the original game and bought this new version - but haven't found the group to tackle it yet.
My main group has played both Here I Stand and Europa Universalis, and we all ended up preferring EU.
I think some of the reasons is that EU looks better than HiS, and that each player has mostly the same menu of actions like Virgin Queen which we like.
In HiS most of us don't want to play Papal, Ottoman or Protestant as we all prefer the gameplay that the English, French and Habsburg provides.
We also love the trading aspect, event cards, advisor/action cubes etc. a bit better than the Command Points that CDG's usually use.
Anyway, we will keep all of them and even has Tanto Monta on the way for the possibility for a 4 player game in the sense of HiS/VQ as EU is the only one in our view that plays well 3-6 without the use of VQ-mulitple-nations-per-player-rules.
Two things we really love with HiS though is that each nation and event card feels really unique and provides a ton of historical theme, compared to EU where each nation is quite similar except that one nation has a bit easier time with exploration, another with trading and another with NPR conquest.
Glad you finally got to play this. Sadly I'm having to get my wargaming fix vicariously through you both since I'm currently navigating the "two small children requiring constant attention" portion of my life. Most complicated game i've played of late is Heroquest with a few friends! Your comments are what I expected. Long playtime, deep gameplay with too many mechanics. The rulebook, that I've attempted to start reading several times, is mentally exhausting. With all that said I'm desperate to play this and everything about the theme, visuals and mechanics encourages me one step further. Some point this year I intend to play or at least sample this game, that said its taken me 9 hours just to finish this video as I've been trying to find time to watch snippets of it! 😂
You can do it. Battletech? Solo games like Warfighter and the Hunted. If one of your little ones is old enough for basic Wings of Glory, go for it. Through the Ages digital can scratch the grand strategy itch, too.
I thoroughly enjoyed the solo player, but yeah the learning curve was brutal
Thanks for giving this a go. The video game is outrageously in-depth so it seems like this tabletop version is "on brand!"
I think it’s a fantastic game. There are shorter scenarios and scenarios for lower player counts. I also loved playing solo against bots. There is so much history in the events, mission chains, technologies/ideas, colonization, trade, conquest, diplomacy…
Best piece of advise if you play with new players TEACH them so if you see they are making obvious mistakes, or getting confused step in and offer some advice, they don't have to follow it, but also don't get annoyed or snippy if they don't. Just be friendly so if you see they have too many diplomatic cubes remind them how that might work so they can correct themselves and if an action was taken if they can 'do over' as they just did the action without causing too much disruption don't be like 'nope you did that', Don't be that guy. I placed something in a Star Trek game and then I understood, but it was placed. Luckily in that game I got Mr. Sulu and was able to move the same piece. Still be accommodating to players in a game like this with a high complexity.
Great video. I have used the BOT flowchart to help me understand the game faster. Great technique.
"...OR you can just invade them"
Bro was playing as the Ottomans lol 😂 loved that. If they are as overpowered in the board game as they are in EU4, then yeah, that makes sense.
including a shot of the game board would help
So how would you play this game with friends? Would you have a "game night" every week?
Your take on this game is spot on. Well done.
so... wrt to "save the game".
I'm not sure I'm in the market for EU ... If I'm going to spend 4 whole days playing it, there are probably other wargames I'd rather play.
But you do realize that having the option to put the game away somehow is a regular thing for a lot of the larger games. (say, OCS)
Plenty of people have some sort of arrangement for stashing the game away on a shelf until next play session.
I dunno… I get annoyed at the “coin” bots so this is probably a pass for me. Thanks for the review guys.
Fantastic game but, like Twilight Imperium and some other monster games, not easy to get to the table
Sounds cool, but why not play Successors
In reality those are totally different styles of games, but there’s plenty of other options out there.
5 min into the review and yup it sounds like the computer game. Very slow burn. I found myself waiting waiting waiting…
I played this in their playtesting. As an absolute gaming history lover with a lot of patience, I thought it was pretty cool. BUT, I spent about 15 years now wrapping my head around Early Modern European military history for my own strategic game designs for the period. I was very disappointed that there seemed to be no mechanism or rules or cards for succession wars, which were one of the primary drivers of wars (and most of the big wars in the 1700s). I am sure it is a great game, but unless they fixed this (they said they would not when I vehemently objected in my feedback), I will not buy. Though perhaps one could come up with some house rules on this. But it would take a lot of work and playtesting itself.
This is a computer game. You NEED to save the game now and then :)
This game has the worst rulebook I have ever read... even worse than Sierra Madre games.
It's already an extremely complex game and, to make things difficult, they decided to replace, for no reason at all, keywords, with symbols so that on page 50 of the rulebook you have to go back to page 2 to look at a table with nore than 40 different symbols and do this back and forth to understand a text.
Why not write "Trade Power" instead of having a symbol for it? This symbol is very similar to "Trade Node" by the way... and they are all super small.
Then to mae things even harder for you, there are text that you have to refer to the table of 40+ symbols... only to refer to an Acronyms list... because the hexagon that means DNPR token you haven't got a clue what DNPR stands for so you consult a list of about 10 Acronyms after going through a table.
Whose idea was that? The game is cool though.
Hello, Gentlemen. I like your reviews. I was trying to get in touch with you about my new game but I didn't see your email anywhere just Facebook and Instagram and twitter etc. I was hoping to introduce you to the WW2 Bomber game I am currently designing. Let me know the best way to reach. you. Thank you!
theplayersaid at gmail dot com
Thank you. Sent !