One thing you didn't mention is that Europa Universalis PoP plays well with anything from 1 to 6 players. That will make the game much more likely to hit the table among gamers who aren't so blessed with having a group of 5 other heavy historical gamers around. Also the replayability looks huge, with multiple starting dates available and players free to basically include whatever player countries they feel like. It's a very very unique game.
In the second scenario booklet of EUPoP, there is a tribute to HIS called "HIS once more" (it also modifies few of the main rules of the game). I would like to have a comparison of this specific scenario with HIS from anyone having experienced both games.
Both awesome games but (here) I stand with Europa Universalis, even just for its sheer versatility. You can play with any combination of players - bots, even solo vs 5 bots (and btw it's an oustanding solo experience). And the scenarios feel and play very different. That rare Space Empires 4X quality, many games in a box.
I don't think this was a fair comparison. Did you guys play Europa Universalis again and do one of the scenarios instead of the grand campaign? Those are very different experiences. There is even a scenario that is based on Here I Stand. Realistically, the (many) scenarios are what is going to get played most. The grand campaign is for a once a year weekend.
EU is my favorite solo game by far. The bots are excellent and the amount of choices to make each action are plenty. I've also been playing 2 players with 2 extra bots with my friend and it is also amazing.
Hi guys ! I didn't know you. Thanks for the comparision, it helped me. I'm kinda of collection man. I bought HIS and I still haven't play it. My group are more of young people (young for me) and yes, they struggle with the old school style of HIS. So still hoping make them test it but... it's just hope. But when I saw EU, I was "oh, this one might be great". And I saw I can play solo. This review helped me to see it isn't for me. Because I like the "straightforwardness" of HIS and hope it was in EU too. Thanks for helping me !
Thanks for the video. I play Here I Stand in person 2-3 times a year and on vassal every once in a while so I had considered getting EU but the price was just too high for a game I wouldn’t be getting on the table very often. Interesting to hear how the two stack up. I’m on the P500 list for VQ & Tanto Monta & I’m excited to see how they play.
I am after few solid plays of Europa Universalis. So far all with 4 players. There is a PLENTY of scenarios for this game which gives plenty of options: you can play with 1-6 players (with expansion), you can play scenarios which last 1,2,3 or 4 eras. My group can go down to 7/8 hrs doing whole 2 eras. So grand campaign can be done in 2 days. Europa Universalis deserves lot more attention as it is simply SUPERB! Great content chaps but sometimes I am under impression that You guys too quickly (sometimes after just 1 play) judge game. Highly recommend playing smaller scenarios and getting third scenario booklet. Happy Gaming!
Creators recently finished (VERY successful) crowdfunding campaign for reprint of Deluxe Edition and first expansion. It looks like there is more than enough support for the game to expand in current form (which I love). I understand that this game is not for everyone but I think You go too far by saying that it isn't for most hardcore 4x players as it is too long. You seem to be missing my point about length of the game too.
Please bear in mind that Europa universalis has multiple scenarios of different length and every game can be entirely different. Indeed they have just released another scenarios book. Also solo !
We played a game of EU with two humans and one bot. Really enjoyed it, but we needed six evenings or so. ^^ Definitely not for everyone. The bots are really good once you've grokked the flowcharts.
Excellent video! I will fully admit that the flash of EU is what intrigued me the most about it, but after this video, I think I might pick up Here I Stand first
Thank you! 1 idea is to form a group mentality that likes coming back each week to continue a story, like with the old RPG campaigns. Then the length of a game is not as critical. But that also necessitates being able to keep the game state between sessions. Question: Can you take a photo of either of these and set it up the following week without too much trouble or would you need to physically leave the whole game as is? We had 'War of the Ring' (6+ hour game for us) set up over 3 sessions and watched the movies in between and had a blast so that might make some of these longer games possible for people who can't do 8+ hours at once.
I’m sure people smarter than me could figure that out, but you need to be very careful about the cards and pieces that photos just can’t capture. Plus it’s so massive that set up and tear down to be a significant time investment over the course of 3+ sessions. Would be much easier if you could leave it up.
Would love to play HIS. But I figure in the whole of my state I would only find a few people who would be willing to play it in the first place. Way too long and a niche topic. Here in Germany wargames with a history topic really have a hard time. Went to a convention and I really couldnt connect with the typical wargamers here, very narrowminded and judgmental unfortunately. So i clearly prefer EU. It is fantastic if you can leave the game set up. Feels a bit like the old days when we played long campaign games like Descent. EU tells fantastic stories. You can play it solo, with one person or bigger groups. The scenarios are so varied, no game feels thr same. Currently I play it with a friend online every 2 weeks for a few hours each. Amazing experience
Very interesting. Would love to try either VQ or HIS on Vassal but not used that system before. I have both VQ and HIS on pre-order... I can't even imagine getting a large enough group to commit to a game for three days so EU is well out!
Otts are at war with Hungary at the start. England doesn't have to declare war on Scotland or France on the first turn. Also, there is VERY limited diplomacy on Turn 1 of HIS. Then it gets super important thereafter. For HIS, a bad Ottoman gives a benefit to Habsburgs. A bad Habsburgs or France ruins the game. A bad England is OK, though it can give France or Habsburgs the game. It only works for the to have a bad Prot if the Papacy is also bad. Otherwise, a bad Papacy can affect the Ottomans and the Prots.
Hi Grant, I am also wondering if the Europa game goes into historical detail about specific people. In HIS there is a lot of detail about actually popes and theologians of the time. Does Europa go into that type of detail with the historical detail, or are there a lot of stock characters? Thanks
Hi Grant and Alex, I don't know about special editions, but the basic game of Europe looks hideous. I can't image paying $100+ and then looking at those components for three days. I would be in hospital. The art alone in HIS is a reason to play it. Thanks for the updates.
Here seems as good a place as any. It’s corny but our patrons have a slack channel we run where it’s much easier to communicate and take/give advice and opinions in long form.
Historicity is a big selling point in a game for me. I haven't played EU but have taken a good look at it and things like the lack of Russia and Prussia (putting pressure on Poland-Lithuania) is a deal breaker for me. I stress this is just for me and is not an argument for railroading. Others will love the sandbox nature of it and that is fine - glad EU exists but not for me. HiS has this historicity but is not entirely on rails.
@@IRLBemused Poland is a way more relevant power in 1444 than either Prussia or Russia when the grand campaign starts. There are many different scenarios with Prussia and Russia, and you are encouraged in the rulebook to make your own scenarios.
@@jessel3621 That's fine - they are not present in the full 6 player campaign and there are no rules for e.g. switching from P/L to Russia later on. Even if there was, Prussia will not feature anything like it did historically. I'm not interested in making up my own rules. As I said, for those happy with the game as it is, good l uck to them and hope it brings them many hours of happy gaming. It's just not for me.
Europa Universalis can be played solo with up to even 5 bots. That was the MOST important thing for me. Certainly because the designer of the solo mode is one of the most legendary solo designers. Very odd you did not put this VERY important element in your review. So too biased, sadly.
One thing you didn't mention is that Europa Universalis PoP plays well with anything from 1 to 6 players. That will make the game much more likely to hit the table among gamers who aren't so blessed with having a group of 5 other heavy historical gamers around.
Also the replayability looks huge, with multiple starting dates available and players free to basically include whatever player countries they feel like. It's a very very unique game.
In the second scenario booklet of EUPoP, there is a tribute to HIS called "HIS once more" (it also modifies few of the main rules of the game). I would like to have a comparison of this specific scenario with HIS from anyone having experienced both games.
Here I Stand is so great. Have a handful of in person plays, great every time.
Here i stand is my all time favourite game
Both awesome games but (here) I stand with Europa Universalis, even just for its sheer versatility.
You can play with any combination of players - bots, even solo vs 5 bots (and btw it's an oustanding solo experience).
And the scenarios feel and play very different.
That rare Space Empires 4X quality, many games in a box.
Thank you for the video! I love the comparisons and I hope you do more of these types of videos.
I don't think this was a fair comparison. Did you guys play Europa Universalis again and do one of the scenarios instead of the grand campaign? Those are very different experiences. There is even a scenario that is based on Here I Stand. Realistically, the (many) scenarios are what is going to get played most. The grand campaign is for a once a year weekend.
EU is my favorite solo game by far. The bots are excellent and the amount of choices to make each action are plenty. I've also been playing 2 players with 2 extra bots with my friend and it is also amazing.
Woah I was subconsciously expecting this after Europa review. Great content as always.
Hi guys ! I didn't know you.
Thanks for the comparision, it helped me.
I'm kinda of collection man.
I bought HIS and I still haven't play it.
My group are more of young people (young for me) and yes, they struggle with the old school style of HIS.
So still hoping make them test it but... it's just hope.
But when I saw EU, I was "oh, this one might be great". And I saw I can play solo.
This review helped me to see it isn't for me. Because I like the "straightforwardness" of HIS and hope it was in EU too.
Thanks for helping me !
Thanks for the video. I play Here I Stand in person 2-3 times a year and on vassal every once in a while so I had considered getting EU but the price was just too high for a game I wouldn’t be getting on the table very often. Interesting to hear how the two stack up. I’m on the P500 list for VQ & Tanto Monta & I’m excited to see how they play.
I am after few solid plays of Europa Universalis. So far all with 4 players. There is a PLENTY of scenarios for this game which gives plenty of options: you can play with 1-6 players (with expansion), you can play scenarios which last 1,2,3 or 4 eras. My group can go down to 7/8 hrs doing whole 2 eras. So grand campaign can be done in 2 days. Europa Universalis deserves lot more attention as it is simply SUPERB!
Great content chaps but sometimes I am under impression that You guys too quickly (sometimes after just 1 play) judge game. Highly recommend playing smaller scenarios and getting third scenario booklet. Happy Gaming!
It's too long for most hardcore 4x gamers, that's a fact. If they ever care enough to do a revision of it they need to streamline it.
Creators recently finished (VERY successful) crowdfunding campaign for reprint of Deluxe Edition and first expansion. It looks like there is more than enough support for the game to expand in current form (which I love). I understand that this game is not for everyone but I think You go too far by saying that it isn't for most hardcore 4x players as it is too long. You seem to be missing my point about length of the game too.
Please bear in mind that Europa universalis has multiple scenarios of different length and every game can be entirely different.
Indeed they have just released another scenarios book.
Also solo !
They have released another scenarios book on their site now, costs $1!
Loved this "clash of giants"-type review! It was very interesting and addressed so many aspects of the games.
We played a game of EU with two humans and one bot. Really enjoyed it, but we needed six evenings or so. ^^ Definitely not for everyone.
The bots are really good once you've grokked the flowcharts.
Excellent video! I will fully admit that the flash of EU is what intrigued me the most about it, but after this video, I think I might pick up Here I Stand first
Thank you!
1 idea is to form a group mentality that likes coming back each week to continue a story, like with the old RPG campaigns. Then the length of a game is not as critical. But that also necessitates being able to keep the game state between sessions. Question: Can you take a photo of either of these and set it up the following week without too much trouble or would you need to physically leave the whole game as is? We had 'War of the Ring' (6+ hour game for us) set up over 3 sessions and watched the movies in between and had a blast so that might make some of these longer games possible for people who can't do 8+ hours at once.
I’m sure people smarter than me could figure that out, but you need to be very careful about the cards and pieces that photos just can’t capture. Plus it’s so massive that set up and tear down to be a significant time investment over the course of 3+ sessions. Would be much easier if you could leave it up.
I appreciate the comparison. It helped me choose. Thank you.
We'll soon have a new Compass offering for this era and theatre: 'No peace for 30 years'. I wonder how it will compare. Not much talk of it yet.
Would love to play HIS. But I figure in the whole of my state I would only find a few people who would be willing to play it in the first place. Way too long and a niche topic. Here in Germany wargames with a history topic really have a hard time. Went to a convention and I really couldnt connect with the typical wargamers here, very narrowminded and judgmental unfortunately. So i clearly prefer EU. It is fantastic if you can leave the game set up. Feels a bit like the old days when we played long campaign games like Descent. EU tells fantastic stories. You can play it solo, with one person or bigger groups. The scenarios are so varied, no game feels thr same. Currently I play it with a friend online every 2 weeks for a few hours each. Amazing experience
I would compare both of them with Virgin queen. Like that also a lot.
Very interesting. Would love to try either VQ or HIS on Vassal but not used that system before. I have both VQ and HIS on pre-order... I can't even imagine getting a large enough group to commit to a game for three days so EU is well out!
Otts are at war with Hungary at the start. England doesn't have to declare war on Scotland or France on the first turn.
Also, there is VERY limited diplomacy on Turn 1 of HIS. Then it gets super important thereafter.
For HIS, a bad Ottoman gives a benefit to Habsburgs. A bad Habsburgs or France ruins the game. A bad England is OK, though it can give France or Habsburgs the game. It only works for the to have a bad Prot if the Papacy is also bad. Otherwise, a bad Papacy can affect the Ottomans and the Prots.
Could never find 6 players for Here I Stand so sold it. Hoping that EU with or without bots still works at lesser play counts
Hi Grant, I am also wondering if the Europa game goes into historical detail about specific people. In HIS there is a lot of detail about actually popes and theologians of the time. Does Europa go into that type of detail with the historical detail, or are there a lot of stock characters? Thanks
Snarky snobs will bring up the original Europa Universalis by Azure Wish.
Hi Grant and Alex, I don't know about special editions, but the basic game of Europe looks hideous. I can't image paying $100+ and then looking at those components for three days. I would be in hospital. The art alone in HIS is a reason to play it. Thanks for the updates.
Here I stand" sounds fabulous. Six people and eight hours is tough to come by though. ugh.
Is there a place to suggest a game and then your opinion of it?
Here seems as good a place as any. It’s corny but our patrons have a slack channel we run where it’s much easier to communicate and take/give advice and opinions in long form.
@@ThePlayersAid Just curious and gonna ask here: what's your take on bigger wargame like World In Flame? 😅
Historicity is a big selling point in a game for me. I haven't played EU but have taken a good look at it and things like the lack of Russia and Prussia (putting pressure on Poland-Lithuania) is a deal breaker for me. I stress this is just for me and is not an argument for railroading. Others will love the sandbox nature of it and that is fine - glad EU exists but not for me. HiS has this historicity but is not entirely on rails.
Prussia and Russia are in the game.
@@jessel3621 Not as player powers if P/L is.
@@IRLBemused Poland is a way more relevant power in 1444 than either Prussia or Russia when the grand campaign starts. There are many different scenarios with Prussia and Russia, and you are encouraged in the rulebook to make your own scenarios.
@@jessel3621 That's fine - they are not present in the full 6 player campaign and there are no rules for e.g. switching from P/L to Russia later on. Even if there was, Prussia will not feature anything like it did historically. I'm not interested in making up my own rules. As I said, for those happy with the game as it is, good l
uck to them and hope it brings them many hours of happy gaming. It's just not for me.
Europa Universalis can be played solo with up to even 5 bots. That was the MOST important thing for me. Certainly because the designer of the solo mode is one of the most legendary solo designers.
Very odd you did not put this VERY important element in your review.
So too biased, sadly.
Horribly biased
Wow . . . at least where we know where you stand. Terrible Dad joke.