College student refuses to let vegan activist force their morality | DEBATE A VEGAN
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Today’s video:
Debates are back! Starting my US tour content at the The University of Southern California.
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Please read your comments, i like to make inputs on my thoughts on the video…
For example, i wrote a comment about empathy fatigue.
This student needs to read the science fiction book; "The Macroscope" by Piers Anthony where humanity learns that every planet with humans on it eats everything until nothing is left but humans.
Are u ganna signe ur book in the US?
It was great meeting you today in Sacramento! I will never forget that experience. Looking forward to you moving to the U.S. 😃
-Jordan
Ed goes to America! Woot!
People be like :
- Would you let me kill a dog for fun?
- Hell no, what kind of person are you?
- I'm vegan
- OMG you can kill that dog, I don't care!
This is so accurate, lmao.
Every non-vegan ever 😂
Stealing this dialogue.
#Quality
Intellectual dishonesty....see it everywhere
@@Alex_Laska,
Indeed. Here's one of my favourite copypastas:
“If the facts are not on your side, or your argument is flawed, any attempt to save face is to lose it twice over.”
“Wherever we look, we find otherwise sane men and women making extraordinary efforts to avoid changing their minds.
Of course, many people are reluctant to be seen changing their minds, even though they might be willing to change them in private, seemingly on their own terms-perhaps while reading a book. This fear of losing face is a sign of fundamental confusion. Here it is useful to take the audience’s perspective: Tenaciously clinging to your beliefs past the point where their falsity has been clearly demonstrated does not make you look good. We have all witnessed men and women of great reputation embarrass themselves in this way. I know at least one eminent scholar who wouldn’t admit to any trouble on his side of a debate stage were he to be suddenly engulfed in flames.
If the facts are not on your side, or your argument is flawed, any attempt to save face is to lose it twice over. And yet many of us find this lesson hard to learn. To the extent that we can learn it, we acquire a superpower of sorts. In fact, a person who surrenders immediately when shown to be in error will appear not to have lost the argument at all. Rather, he will merely afford others the pleasure of having educated him.
Intellectual honesty allows us to stand outside ourselves and to think in ways that others can (and should) find compelling. It rests on the understanding that wanting something to be true isn’t a reason to believe that it is true-rather, it is further cause to worry that we might be out of touch with reality in the first place. In this sense, intellectual honesty makes real knowledge possible.
Our scientific, cultural, and moral progress is almost entirely the product of successful acts of persuasion. Therefore, an inability (or refusal) to reason honestly is a social problem. Indeed, to defy the logical expectations of others-to disregard the very standards of reasonableness that you demand of them -is a form of hostility. And when the stakes are high, it becomes an invitation to violence.
In fact, we live in a perpetual choice between conversation and violence. Consequently, few things are more important than a willingness to follow evidence and argument wherever they lead. The ability to change our minds, even on important points-especially on important points-is the only basis for hope that the human causes of human misery can be finally overcome.” - Sam Harris, _Intellectual Honesty_
Student- “But why are you looking at it from their experience?”
Ed- “it’s their world as well”
Ed is the Best. 🤍🌱
Yeah, we ultimately always look at things from our own experience. From Ed's perspective, he dislikes what happens to the animals. From the perspective of the guy being interviewed, he doesn't care. Hope that helps!
It's truly saddening that people can't recognise the experience of the victim.
He was so bewildered as to why anyone would take the time to consider the horrific action from the victim's point of view/experience. This was truly unsettling.
It's called empathy, biatch
dude just said slavery was morally ok at the time to justify eating meat
He was saying it was consider ok at that moment by those who lived on those time, now abortion is at the present consider ok before it wasn't but maybe in the future it will change again and be considered inmoral to abort
You show a serious lack of comprehension.
the problem is, he never talks about his views, he saiys "others see it in their view, so it is okay"@@Wandering_Trainer
We're slaves to Satan
After this debate i wouldn't be surprise if people avoid this guy.
People will definitely stay out of his [socio]path
yeah debating a vegan would be annoying as heck, i dont know why anyone would do it willingly.
@@cattygirl6663 its annoying because either you accept veganism is the better choice or sound like a sociopath
@@eejjoo4954 billions of people around the world eat meat, we only sound like sociopaths to vegans lol
@@cattygirl6663 "billions of people around the world use slaves, we slave owners only sound like sociopaths to abolitionists lol"
That guy if he's actually like that and it's not just cognitive dissonance, he should be locked up.
Yeah it would be scary to see people like that have global political power. But honestly, I think he has too much pride to admit in front of the camera that he’s wrong. I doubt he actually believes what he says, he looks like a good person.
@@realrabidraccof how does he look like a good person?
@@antalyaahmed2211 By a good person I mean that he sat down respectfully for 45min, he didnt raise the tone of his voice, he is not homophobic and they even shook hands at the end of the video.
He doesn't look like a bad person to me. He looks like someone that played a bad first card with moral relativism and had too much pride to admit it was a bad initial argument.
And let's not forget that this was in the context of a debate(change my mind) and not just a discussion. To change the mind of the other person is to prove your point.
@@realrabidraccof pretty neive to judge some one on their appearance . He just said he strangled an animal to death and felt nothing .
He has killed at least one hooker I promise you that
His facial expression when you talked about other people/animals suffering tells me he doesn't feel a freaking thing.
"Your empathy is irrelevant to the morality of the action."
"But I just don't have that empathy."
There IS a moral code in the universe; suffering is universal. I don't think that the guy knows what morality is about but he keeps saying he has his own "morals". Well, that's NOT having morals, the guy has no morals and he is trying to paint having no morals as a type of morality, it's NOT. 💖 The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 "moral code in the universe; suffering is universal"
So you've got it all figured out? You're quite special, aren't you?
Good for you. Congrats.
@@flexo3333 Your kind of response was pretty rude and obnoxious tbh.
@@activellabella5076 Point taken. Just find it sad to see people fall for that woo woo.....
Good Lord! That was tough to sit through. You can be atheist and still have empathy for species outside of the human race.
Atheists have more empathy for animals because they are not bred and raised on a book full of cruelty and lack of empathy towards animals.
Absolutely. I am.
most vegan are probably atheist.
@@DhruvPatel-zg1zs that may be true. I like to think that someone who doesn’t believe in a god had thought this through and reached a conclusion. It feels the same with veganism, at least as far as I’m concerned.
That’s a generalization but I get your thinking.
I became Vegan 6 yrs ago because of your work. Thank you Ed.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
I am truly terrified by his perspective on morality.
You know those who didnt say anything about slavery, human sacrifices or women being treated as cattle? This is the guy that didnt say anything during those time and thought it was ok.
Right? The part where he literally asked Ed "why would you consider it from the animal's point of view?" ...because he has empathy? God damn.
From the beginning of slavery, even in ancient times, there's records of individuals speaking against it.
I’m sure a lot of people think like him. I used to kill animals to eat. I don’t get sad if a plant dies, just like I wouldn’t get sad when an animal is killed. I now don’t eat meat, fish or dairy. Empathy can come with education.
Atheists point of view
It’s terrifying that we live amongst people of this mindset. How lonely and fragile his state of being must be to have no empathy at all when having human consciousness.
He was so frustrating and morally inconsistent
Projection
@@Assassin99584 nope, he wouldn’t like it done to home but happy for others to do it, morally inconsistent 👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣. First I thought you made a typo and meant to say morally inconsistent. But it's actually much better the way you intended to mean.
@@tobygosling1653 ok hypocrite
@@Assassin99584 prove it
“Would I stomp a rat? Yeah?” My god lmao
Like who the fuck says that? Only a wanna be tough guy (as he kept flipping his bangs of course lol). Complete psycho in the making. 🤮
What’s wrong with that?
Emotional you are.
I imagine someone having a conversation with him and just deciding to punch him right in the nose. And then they could just claim that for them that wasn't wrong. Come on dude, are you serious?
If being reborn is a thing, this guy is gonna get reborn as all the animals he doesn't have empathy for
Oh my god we haven't had a video like this in ages! Love it!
i have to give it to this guy, i can feel how intelligent he thinks he is and still missing the crazy things that come out of his mouth most of the time, "you don't need to consider how they are feeling, if your morality determines that its ok to kill them, that's ok!”. Good stuff Ed, keep em coming
You should really look up absolute and subject morality
@Norberto Torres dont worry, i know the difference. What's the purpose of your comment btw? trying to make me understand that what this guy is saying is not crazy?
@@jonas3590 his agreement is that there isn't a objective standard for morality. You can see it through different cultures and people.
@@2norberto I know what you're getting at and I still think you're missing my point. It doesn't matter if the person doing the action feels it's moral or not or if morality is subjective or objective, what matters is making the victim suffer needlessly. Dont think this guy in the video would be this nonchalant and ignorant if he himself had to go through the experience of being raised for slaughter. i bet he then would think unecessary slaughter is pretty immoral.
@@jonas3590 it does matter when the debate is based on what is right and wrong.
Imagine how terrible it would be if you were getting assaulted out on the street and this guy walks by..
This guy sounded like an absolute psychopath at the end. Trees and grass are the same as animals, they deserve no moral consideration. That's just evil.
when someone says but something like plants feel pain too, i know i 100% won the debate and they do too on some level. the end of the rope and utterly ridiculous (as are all the arguments for it really)
I just discovered Earthling Ed and very impressed with him. I am happy to share the planet with him!
Thanks for the great content!
He’s not saying anything, he’s just going on and on about how “if someone believes something is right, then they believe it is right and they will act accordingly” bro, we know
I’m a baby-boomer & as a child stood & watched my mum & auntie kill a chicken & later I ate it for dinner - it was a culture then in the 1950’s living in the country. However, in 2020 thanks to my grandson (a student at the time) I watched videos of animal cruelty & realised it was cruel & at 73 became a vegan. What I’m saying is because of the culture where I grew up I didn’t consider animals to be sentient I never gave it a thought but once it was pointed out to me & I saw it - I never ate meat or animal products again 💚 What a pity this young man is so set in his ways & his beliefs!
Awesome, good on you for being a good woman
This was one of the most frustrating discussions I've seen. I knew something was up as soon as he said he went vegan for 1 year to see what's up with the trend. Veganism isn't a trend it's a way of life. We choose to be vegan to create less suffering in the world, and this can be applied to not only animals but also human suffering. It just blows my mind how hypocritical his arguments were he would say one thing and completely say the opposite of what he had just said. I don't get it. At the end of the day animal agriculture affects more than just the animals. It affects us as well. Whether it's the long term effects of climate change, or the exploitation of people happening right now for profit. His whole argument is based on the idea that as humans we base our decisions on how to improve the longevity of our species but very few people benefit from animal agriculture. So therefore it should be part of everyone's moral code to be vegan, because veganism does improve our longevity as a species. More harm than good comes from the exploitation of animals so why not make that choice to lessen the suffering for everyone and the animals.
Blah blah blah. What did he say wrong?
He meant vegetarian
Elaura, if you own an smart phone or drive a car then you’re a coward and a hypocrite.
Dude, how does this guy think our present-day, collective morality came to be? It always changes because of people that question the collective morality of that time! He should open his mind a little to contribute to a better one in the future. To further shape and make society a little better. Just like Ed tries to. 🌿
So this guy is saying he could watch an animal bring tortured and feel nothing?
No, he said he killed a goat in a long, horrific fashion himself, watched him suffer and felt nothing. This is much more serious
😢😞😭
How can he suffocate the goat and not have any feelings with his actions? He knows he is causing real suffering but has no emotions. That is bizarre to me. But there are a lot of people like him and will not admit it. I think after someone makes a statement like that you are now wasting your time with them.
Not exactly true. Psychopaths and sociopaths can be reasoned into behaving morally even if they are incapable of feeling empathy (provided they themselves want to give it a try and they’re interested in developing self awareness). Realistically, though, most aren’t like that, probably
This guy is no where near as smart as he thinks he is... he couldn't even understand the simple question of "what do we empathise with when we see someone being stoned" - does this man not know pain/fear or empathy? Ed has some godly patience to deal with a guy who never answers the question at hand and just slips out of every corned he's put in by trying to sound smart. Thank goodness he makes himself sound dumber with every attempt at escaping the question.
Even hunters feel sympathy /empathy for the animals they hunt, the fact this guy didn't, is terribly frightening.
Blimey that was a tricky watch, think I would take the yelling girl from the other video over this guy, definitely has a scary world view. Fair play to Ed for staying calm, I would have ended the conversation way earlier.
Because you’re not capable of rational discussion. You are 100% left wing
Super interesting debate. I wonder what his perspective would be on how societies can change over time. What causes this change? The core of his argument mostly seems to be that he'll take the backseat. Valuing the morality of others, but not valuing his own on an equal level.
i would not have had this amount of patience. you’re awesome ed!
Isn't it exhausting living with that much cognitive dissonance? Does he even hear what he's saying?
Speaking of cognitive dissonance....
I used to work a 20 acre produce farm. 20 acres is quite small and can only produce enough to feed a couple vegans their entire diet.
The hard truth is....on just that small farm...15-20 deer would be killed, every year...dozens of raccoons, opossums, woodchucks, skunks, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, mice, rats, various birds, etc. would also be killed. Fortunately, most of the deer were taken home and used to feed families...the rest just went to waste.
For the amount of food grown, to feed one single vegan their entire diet...there would be anywhere from 30-50 wild/FREE animals killed...every single year!
Being vegan isn't so vegan after-all.
Now that you know this....will you just pretend you didn't hear it, and carry on feeling morally superior?
@@fermiticus4034 mate… seriously, you don’t have to post this on every top comment. If you’re just looking for an answer, that’s fine. But going on every comment trying to disprove people’s beliefs isn’t nice.
Another prime example of why vegans will never win the morality argument .
Taste is the very thing that has veganism by the balls
@@x-latetv-x6816 So you are arguing for: "A perpetrator gaining sensory pleasure justifies needless harm done to a victim" and "A rights violation/causing of suffering motivated by sensory pleasure is justified."
(If you weren't joking lmao)
One thing I do not understand is why meat and animal experimentation defenders do not support experimentation on terminally ill children. I oppose that sort of experimentation because I believe it is evil to torture a conscious, living being, even if they do not have the same faculties as an adult human. Cruelty defenders, however, have no such argument to make.
1000%
If I were such a person, I would even have to say that it is necessary to make experiments on terminally ill children, because otherwise they would go to waste (as they do not serve their function as a human, exploit the resources of other humans without payoff).
Oh my god this is such a good point! Adding that one to my arsenal 😏
They feel empathy for children. They don't feel it for (non human) animals. It's simple. With an egoistic morality or with no morality at all, this way of thinking make sense
@@leishmania4116 for sure. But then their “utilitarian” stance falls apart! As it of course will when pressed with logic and humanity.
He is in great denial…He is not as unaffected as he thinks or wants to be. Only thing I’m going to say is that if that experience in Africa had not affected him, he wouldn’t remember it that vividly. It was traumatizing. Hope he realizes. I believe that there was a lot of trauma growing up and if he doesn’t accept it, we will never be able to heal it. Just a reminder that a lack of emotion is also an emotion…A very strong one…
Vegan 14 months ago now Ed, thanks to you and Joey!👍👏😀♥️♥️♥️
Oh wow the video quality has really improved since the old ones! Overall really great talk, looking forward to seeing more!
I can’t believe he defended TED BUNDY 🤯
Though the guy (student) has moral views many of us here in the comments absolutely disagree with, I apreciate the constructivenes and patience both of them bring to the table. Good talk, Ed!
This one was rough. If I was there, I would have loved to press him more on moral progress. If he could see and live through all societies, which one would he prefer to stay in? Are we actually no "better" now than we were before ending slavery? What is the point of changing out moral systems if nothing actually improves?
The key point of confusion was between what is wrong and what people think is wrong. The general belief that it is wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering is pretty much a universal constant. Past moral abominations were the product of ignorance, not the abandonment of this principle (human/animal exploitation are the product of the belief that certain species/races are not sentient, human sacrifice was considered necessary to appease god(s), etc.). This is an extremely uncontroversial way of defining "wrong". You can say other things are wrong too, but we pretty much all agree at least on this one. Suffering is a psychological phenomenon. This gives us objective criteria to judge the wrongness of an action.
Consider the analogy of health: people pretty much universally agree on what it means to be healthy. Historically, people have been wildly incorrect on the topic, yet there's a valid underlying science. A medical relativist would say "People used to think things were healthy that we now think are unhealthy, so anyone's guess is as good as any other. Bloodletting was accepted as an effective medical treatment at the time, and my own personal health belief now is that vaping is fine."
@@crawbug8932 Yeah definitely. it seems like he believes that what is wrong is really just what people think is wrong; there isn't anything outside of that. I wouldn't go so far as to say people justify exploiting animals because of just ignorance about sentience though. This guy seems to think that moral obligation only applies to our own species because that's how we're designed or whatever. He doesn't hold your constant. We need only to consider our own.
And in fact, I bet he would reject the health analogy. Morals aren't a kind of robust knowledge like science. They're just opinions and agreements between people.
Logic : everything is exploitation no matter the level of exploitation so let’s just do whatever we want
“Morality is in the hands of the beholder” said every serial killer ever
You know who else says it? Anyone with exposure to other cultures, anyone who understands the psychological effects of one’s culture, and anyone who lives in reality. Morality is subjective, whether you like it or not.
@@maxwellmaxwell3042morality is subjective, but most of us don't use that as an excuse to explioit and harm others. This guy seems to. I think that's why he came off so weird.
@@maxwellmaxwell3042and more fool you if you listen to a person like this who can't actually defend his takes with anything other than "idc, i get mine", i guess
Morality is subjective. But there are universal objective facts about the world like suffering that affect the morality of all cultures I am aware of. We also recognise the practical need for empathy for the purpose of social cohesion and general well being. Another objective property of human psychology
Lol this guy basically just accidentally tried to justify every atrocity in history.
Kinda.
It also felt like both are talking past each other
Apathy is like that indeed.
@@Tom-sx4tw Because they are both coming from a completely different idea of what morality is. And Ed couldn't get it so kept going in circles.
Saying that it's was considered morally okay by the people doing it is not really justifying it. He was trying to explain his view of what morality actually is. Which indeed is very subjective.
@G G No. He said that the morality of groups is survival of the fittest. Whoever has the power can impose their own morality.
This guy spent 30 minutes telling Ed that he doesn’t care about anyone or anything other than himself.
Crazy right! I always find that correlative for people who are unreasonably cynical about other humans. What I think these people are doing is projecting their own emotions onto their world and assuming everyone else thinks and feels like they do.
If someone says that “people are inherently evil and selfish” that’s a pretty clear indicator for me to stay away.
This also explains why those that actively focus on love and kindness in this world are more easily able to find it, feel it and with it, their interpretation of the world changes. I’ve been on both sides and that has at least been my truth.
You can tell by his face straight away
Yeah he's genuinely a POS. I'm not even a vegan. I love meat. I can't believe his morals. Disgusting human.
@@brandonkrebbs Looking back to when I was a meat eater, I would totally call my past self a POS even I never articulated my morals (or lack thereof) for eating meat.
I'm curious, Brandon, do you consider yourself a POS?
The hair flips give that away. Pretty rich boy ready to "exploit"!!!!
Already has years and generations of exploitation under his belt.
“It’s my tendency to reproduce”
PLEASE DON’T
Super creepy as well.
😅🤣
This made me choke on my tea omg. Your comment is everything 🤣🤣
I think he is just saying things just to be right.
He can't. He has no balls.
Serial killer: *kills people*
This guy: "it's ok as long as you believe it's right"
i bet society is more easily set on the path to human genocides after being indoctrinated to devalue animals
exactly, and that's where Ed really started to break down this guy's moral-relativist bullshit. i was waiting for The Veil of Ignorance to get a mention, i doubt this guy would be able to wrap his head around it - he clearly has an issue with empathy.
😑
No he would say: "it's ok as long as those in power say it's ok"
Spot on!
I call this maneuver, “tactical nihilism,” where you justify all type of horrors when talking to vegans.
That's a good modification; thanks!
That's an excellent description, thanks for sharing. Wish it wasn't needed....
Very accurate and appropriate coinage
That’s because it’s the easiest position for a meat eater to justify their actions
Yeah but based on my morality 😂
Dude, we get it. It's based on your personal morality. The whole point of the conversation is to point out the inconsistencies in your moral framework. But society tho. But collective mortality. But my upbringing/culture tho. But legality tho... smdh
Mental gymnastics gold medalist.
where is inconsistency? he doesn't try to justify his lack of empathy towards animals and he is a moral relativist. his case is waterproof.
100% nailed it. This doofis kept juking between societal norms, collective morality, generational norms, culture, upbringing. Which one is it? Which do you subscribe to? What's the hierarchy of these? They don't all morally align so he just kept pivoting to whichever one suited the moment. The only thing waterproof was his hair.
I wanna know why his pErSoNaL MoRaLiTy is so poor
@@joeg4589 None if those positions are ethically valid on their own either. One might align with another such as culture and collective morality, but an appeal to either doesn't define something as morally right, although it's true that he jumps from one to another when that is pointed out, and most of his positions don't have moral coherency with each other - he would probably learn about that if took an ethical philosophy class at the university he is attending.
@@cathyh1680 correct. None of his positions were ethically valid. It was just the constant pivoting every time Ed proved that which was making my brain melt.
Not calling this guy a sociopath, but his argument is quite LITERALLY what a sociopath would say to defend their view that if they're okay with it, it is socially accepted by all. I'm glad individuals are having the conversation to begin with , but this guy reminds me of myself when i watched Cowspiracy for the first time and paused it at every factoid so I could attempt to rebut it. I'll never understand this guy's idea of 'net loss vs. benefit' when it comes to murdering individuals.
You can call him a psychopath then.
It's okay to call him what he is. A spade is a spade.
Id like to recommend an anime called monster. It explains this issue better than i could with text but if you dont care for it lemme try my best. First he is a sociopath yes second i dont think net loss vs benefit is a wrong way to look at it. Answer this would you or would you net want a serial killer to die? Is that not the serial killers murder? But you would still opt for it because more people are going to be saved because of it thus arguing for murder and the reason being net profit. Veganism doesnt need people to be compassionate to follow it is what i think.
He'll wait for the society to change him. That's what I get from his arguements. He's like as long as there's no one holding me accountable I'll continue with my destructive habbits
@@justme92able Nah, I see him becoming a serial killer and strangling humans -- more of a challenge than goats.
Ed: "It was a great conversation."
Morgan Freeman: "It was not a great conversation."
Underrated comment 😂
Well yea when Ed meats someone that is right he runs circles lol
@@rohanking12ableFeel free to elaborate. Or just dig a hole and hide.
He needs to check his moral compass. I was shocked when he asked Ed why he was looking at a problem from the victim’s perspective. Complete lack of empathy. Soul or no soul, pain and suffering are very real things and we should strive to reduce that.
He must have grown up in a really bad place. Middle East does that to people.
The cognitive dissonance with vegans is quite amazing.
I used to work a 20 acre produce farm. 20 acres is quite small and can only produce enough to feed a couple vegans their entire diet.
The hard truth is....on just that small farm...15-20 deer would be killed, every year...dozens of raccoons, opossums, woodchucks, skunks, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, mice, rats, various birds, etc. would also be killed. Fortunately, most of the deer were taken home and used to feed families...the rest just went to waste.
For the amount of food grown, to feed one single vegan their entire diet...there would be anywhere from 30-50 wild/FREE animals killed...every single year!
Being vegan isn't so vegan after-all.
@@fermiticus4034 still being vegan will reduce the amount of suffering than intensively farming billions of land and sea animals, not perfect but will greatly reduce animal suffering
@@fermiticus4034 this is not a good argument since all the animals you mentioned are also killed when plants are farmed that are meant to feed the animals. And in addition to that, the animal is killed. So in sum, there are still way more animals killed in a non-vegan diet. And this is just the moral aspect. Moreover, animal agriculture is one of the main drivers of climate change and the main reason for deforestation. Unlike you are assuming, veganism doesn´t mean causing no harm at all but reducing harm if possible. Good luck to you.
@@marcelfort2599 I eat every deer I have shot, protecting your food. Sleep well, knowing they didn't go to waste. You're welcome.
"But, why are you looking at it from their perspective?" ... Empathy. The critical ingredient to moral progress.
No such thing in the Middle East.
It's also the exact point where a lot of these debates come to a standstill. If you've given someone all the information and they still don't care bc of their fundamental lack of empathy, there's not much further you can go in terms of trying to convince them
Funny how people think people care about animals, when they don't even care about humans either. I'm also vegan because i feel empathy for animals, on the other side i kind of feel ashamed because i don't really put efforts into other global calamities such as hunger, wars etc.
My problem with most of the vegans is their one-sided view, they don't get that being morally progressive needs to be an economic incentive, rather then some guy discussing random college students in a park. People will always be defensive, as they feel attacked, wheter its offensive or not. That's not how transformation of society works unfortunatly, otherwise there wouldn't be racism, envy and and and it the world.
@Helios Financial incentives come from people buying vegan food, people don't buy vegan food unless they become vegan, people don't become vegan unless they reflect on their actions, for which they must be offered an alternative point of view. Racism isn't an industry (anymore), unlike meat and dairy, it is solely a social problem. These conversations offer non-vegans the opportunity to observe somebody else proposing the same arguments that they hold. In my opinion these debates are aimed more towards the viewer than trying to convince the opponent in the video. Instead of feeling cornered amidst the heat of a debate, defending their personal opinions, the viewer can, while relaxed, dispassionate furthermore without a crowd, openly see someone else displaying unconscious hypocritical beliefs that they hold, maybe even just receiving answers to questions that they may not feel comfortable asking someone who is vegan.
additionally, they provide vegans with coherent, succinct rebuttals to common counterarguments, which may sometimes be hard to intelligibly convey during a fast paced debate situation
I am seriously terrified of this guy's lack of empathy. It is scary to imagine what he will justify just because it isn't happening to him.
I loved your final thoughts on this Ed. I think you actually got him thinking when you hoped that he does not encounter anyone that lacks empathy for him.
If he's like most people, he only becomes a heartless psycopath on the topic of veganism.
I don't think he flinched, bc he said "happens all the time", as if getting cold murdered is the same as passing a stranger on the street without a second though... Can't tell if he's using his brain to justify horrific acts, or if he's actually a sociopath...
@@mei.mei1 Yeah not really sure what he meant by that 'it happens everyday' seemed strange.
Apparently 1 in 30 people are sociopaths/ on the psychopathy spectrum and I don’t think it’s outrageous to assume he is one, he’s pretty much outed himself. It’s not really their fault- they’re neurodiverse and don’t have the same capacity to empathise, but these people should not be in positions to dictate any laws or parameters of morality. Unfortunately they frequently are because they get to positions of power often due to their very nature.
@@sarahaldridge7911 i think you mean neurodivergent, and that is a harmful stereotype. I and the other ND women I know are empathic to a debilitating degree. Lack of empathy is a spiritual problem IMO, not a biological one.
This is the creepiest interview I've seen on this channel. Veganism aside, his view of morality is chilling.
WHAT'S THE BEST GIFT YOU COULD EVER RECEIVE?
Without a doubt ETERNAL LIFE!!
Accept this GIFT!!
IT'S A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH!
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
YOU CANNOT SAVE YOURSELF!!
"For by grace you are saved... not of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
GOD LOVES YOU AND HAS OFFERED YOU A SAVIOR. HE IS, JESUS CHRIST!!
"In while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
WANT TO ACCEPT HIM, REPENT AND RECEIVE HIM INTO YOUR LIFE TODAY? TOMORROW MAY BE LATE!!
"That whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
"Jesus said to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)
Creepiest? You mean fucking stupidest, this moron didn't once stop to think to himself why murder in our society is wrong. The negative effects that come with it. He just kept talking about morality like it was something arbitrary. Society itself sees things as immoral considering the negative effects certain actions have towards the society.
@@piggy11599 but what if I want to murder someone cause I feel like it?!? HUH HUH it’s MY MORALS 🤓🤓
@@choblgobblrr1074 🤣🤣
His view on morality, in a nutshell, is “might makes right”. Same as the Nazis
I grew up in a family of butchers and I've been vegan since I was a kid. It's your moral obligation to outgrow your traditions just as obligations involving human rights.
more meat for the rest of us. thanxs a lot :)
Wow, nice!
Did you get a lot of remarks from your family about being vegan?
The cognitive dissonance with vegans is quite amazing.
I used to work a 20 acre produce farm. 20 acres is quite small and can only produce enough to feed a couple vegans their entire diet.
The hard truth is....on just that small farm...15-20 deer would be killed, every year...dozens of raccoons, opossums, woodchucks, skunks, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, mice, rats, various birds, etc. would also be killed. Fortunately, most of the deer were taken home and used to feed families...the rest just went to waste.
For the amount of food grown, to feed one single vegan their entire diet...there would be anywhere from 30-50 wild/FREE animals killed...every single year!
Being vegan isn't so vegan after-all.
Now, what are you going to do with those "moral obligations"?
@@fermiticus4034 Nonsense and completely fabricated/exaggerated appeal to authority fallacy. 1.5 acres of land produces 37000lbs of plant based food or 375lb of meat.
To feed animals to the age of slaughter, it requires many times more plants to be harvested than if we just ate plants ourselves. You might argue that we could instead just eat exclusively grass-fed animals who do not require grain, but this is entirely impractical. Firstly, most "grass-fed" animals are not fed 100% grass anyway, and secondly, it's not sustainable at all to try to feed 7 billion people exclusively on grass-fed beef. There isn't the space available for such a thing, and good luck living exclusively off beef and nothing else.
Whilst there will be casualties in crop harvesting, and whilst vegans would prefer it not the be the case - it is the least harmful thing most people can do. Obviously, it would be even less harmful to grow your own crops on your own property and pick them by hand, without spraying, and without using machinery which can run down animals. But most people don't have the space available to do that to feed themselves at all, let alone all year round every year. So out of all practical options available, it is least harmful - and hopefully in future, as people start to have more respect for animals and more accountability for how we treat them, more advances will be made in crop harvesting in ways that minimize casualties.
There are billions of animals killed every year for slaughter and no way that many deer were killed that you claim.
This guy is nowhere near as intelligent as he thinks he is
It's so painful to watch. How can Ed be so patient with these wannabe philosophers.
this guy sounds so arrogant haha
I luv your name Cheezus
he definitely thinks he’s above everyone 😭
@@fishfeelpain7764 tbf I feel like the other guy was being patient with Ed in this one. Rs kept jumping in without really listening. I only eat plant based btw.
This person is a perfect example of why we should all go through a similar thought experiment with people we are considering dating. 😳😬
what has this to do with dating?
@@pirds102010 because this guy will end up killing his future partner
@@pavankat if it will be an animal yes :D
@@pirds102010 .... wait what?
@@pirds102010 huh? lol. if he's having sex with animals that's another red flag bro.
He talks about empathy as if he read about it in a book somewhere. He might actually just be a psychopath.
@@bluenorth3965 yes def
His eyes are void
Because empathy isn’t universal and we feel empathy for different things. I would feel empathy if my mom was getting attacked or a child on the street. I don’t care if someone steps on a cockroach or kills a pig.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing yeah, not everyone has the ability to feel empathy. The inability to feel it is a trademark signature of psychopathy. This guy only feels bad based on what society says he should feel bad about. Psychopaths mirror what they think they should show.
He is just a narcissist
This guy is so exhausting with his " *I* think it's okay"-philosophy. Probs to you Ed for staying calm
He’s literally a brick
Fee Muller the reason Ed is calm is because he ate meat lol
Mans a psychopath
20:30
Just take a listen
@@patrickbaklava7297 exactly! this moment made my jaw drop. he completely misunderstands how morality works. he thinks its like choosing your favorite color or something
This guy is either lying for the sake of winning the argument or he scores super high on a test for psychopathy.
I agree,
he comes across as someone with ADHD or autism, look at the way he avoids eye contact at all times while still maintaining his position about his beliefs, a psychotic person would've lost their shit ages ago.
Or sociopathy
Sounds like you can’t handle the logical consistency😉.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing you’re joking??
this was probably the most frustrating debate i’ve seen Ed do. hats off to you, Ed, how on earth do you handle yourself so well
He doesn’t handle his self. He just is himself. If you try to handle. This causes tension which is closer to fear. He breathes stays focused and doesn’t care of repercussions. Also he fully has no doubt that animals are suffering unnecessarily. His empathy level is higher than many. Which gives him the power to be knowledgeable passionate and focused
The other guy around 28:48 starts to get flustered. As soon as you see this. People are shaking in there skins. Ready to be reborn
@@josephmorgan5027 Man, I'll join whichever cult that you establish.
Frustrating because the man doesn't agree?
I sometimes wonder how you stop yourself from strangling these people!
You are frustrated because this guy is smart, Ed is a Charlaton and you are a sheepleton.
"I would stomp on a rat because they exploit things that I'm taking advantage of." ???
Yeah, wait till he eats somebody else's lunch! They might find it justified to stomp him because he exploited a thing that person wanted to take advantage of! 😆
A truly pathetic person who accepted his traumas and keep spreading them. Such people get high ranks in the industrial civilization because people with empathy can't abuse and murder nature for selfish, short-term monetary profits. We are in the midst of the 6th mass extinction because of selfish sociopaths like him. Check out: The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Might makes right basically.
@@VeganSemihCyprus33 You’re not vegan if you’re ableist. Stop armchair diagnosing and turn ur ass around. I’m so tired of you plant based people ruining the movement
It's funny the mental gymnastics that people go through to justify eating animals
& conditioning creates powerful delusion
Programming is strong...
Maybe we just don't wanna fuck around taking supplements and spending so much on very varied meals and just wanna eat some tortured flesh to get through the day
More than being something funny, it pisses me off and makes me sad at the same time.
There IS a moral code in the universe; suffering is universal. I don't think that the guy knows what morality is about but he keeps saying he has his own "morals". Well, that's NOT having morals, the guy has no morals and he is trying to paint having no morals as a type of morality, it's NOT. 💖 The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Gang rape is okay because the majority of people in the room decided it was morally acceptable... The guy thinks society is a separate entity from him... that was chilling. Ed, my respect for talking that long with him.
Never said that. Are all vegans this dishonest. He literally only said there's letting thing slide, not caring, and caring. That's all morality is. Some don't care at all usually a cognitive thing. While most it's a mix. Like vegans literally don't care about plants but it's ok because eating meat is bad because they are similar enough to us.(If you say all animals you are not being objective at all on the "suffering". Also fungus is closer to animal kingdom than they are plant. Do you care im guessing not
@@rohanking12ableVegans do care about plants. What do you think the farmed animals eat? The amount of plants produced to feed the cattle is much greater than those to feed humans. So by eating meat and dairy you actually harm both animals and plants.
I never fail to admire your patience, Ed.
Same here, but you can tell that he's gotten a headache 😂
thats just dumb. as if he had to "wait" til his ideology is accepted.
@@justme92able thats the lack of nutrients.
I was thinking the same! I’m a hypocrite coz I ate meat for 40 years, nearly 43 now so been vegan for nearly 3 years. It was such the norm I’m the 80s/ 90s etc to eat meat I didn’t really think anything of it but always played in the back of my head- but I love animals! So I went vegan and I feel so much better both in health and of course morally. I’ll never look back. I watched videos for info on being vegan and your videos Ed really helped me make my decision and I am eternally grateful! Thank you!
@Richard Hoffman weak vegans gonna cry
One point he's flawed on is his idea that exploitation is okay as long as it's helping the human species survive, because he thinks it's hardwired in us to do what's necessary to survive. We're literally doing the opposite of that by having industries like animal agriculture and anything else that is destroying the planet and destroying our health. Survival isn't what dictates our actions anymore, it's money.
Love this so much
Well said
best comment so far
Exactly
100%
humanity would’ve never progressed if people just accepted society’s “collective morality.”
Absolutely.
Word!
Agreed
There IS a moral code in the universe; suffering is universal. I don't think that the guy knows what morality is about but he keeps saying he has his own "morals". Well, that's NOT having morals, the guy has no morals and he is trying to paint having no morals as a type of morality, it's NOT. 💖 The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
Exactly. This man’s viewpoint represents that of the least thinking, least contributing, lowest common denominator. Like a rock getting dragged by a boat that’s actually going somewhere.
I live in Mexico. 3rd world country. Cats and dogs everywhere, but people leave them alone. They don't stomp them like rats.
I’m from Brazil. Nobody stomps on dogs like rats there either. What’s he talking about?
thanks for telling it like it is, not like this Excuse Machine
Mexico is not a third world country
Exactly! All an excuse for being a psychopath! What country is he from? Killing dogs like rats, I'd like to know!
Checking in from cambodia. Many strays, still no stomping
Relativism gone crazy. He was plant based for a year, never vegan.
Moral relativism means you go vegan, otherwise your own morals conflict themselves. 17:50 you know this dude would stop someone if they were kicking a dog but he doesn't wanna say that otherwise he'd lose his hold on the argument.
No true Scotsman fallacy
@@Assassin99584 That isn't want that means. Veganism is considered by many to be a moral philosophy. Since he obviously didn't partake in it he was plant-based, not vegan.
@@adamthepanda00 so nobody is vegan then
@@Assassin99584 As I just said. It is a moral philosophy, not just a plant based diet. But the philosophy necessitates the diet. Ed is a vegan. The other guy was plant based.
Taking a personal note to never approach this person for any reason. I truly felt sick to my stomach. This is beyond carnist logic, it is the ultimate red flag
Based on your morality. Literally something you can't even fathom because your brain refuses
@@rohanking12able And your stupid answer is based on your morality...
no empathy seeing the fear in the goats eyes, kicking and flailing... in others words, it's fighting for its life, that much is blatantly clear... and he doesn't give a single damn 😢
these sort of people scare me ...
We are all the same, people or animals, in the sense that we all feel pain and we all want to live and avoid suffering. So the guy should be able to relate to this and thus, feel empathy. But he does not. He is literally a psychopath.
This guy is 100% sociopath.
Ed, how do you keep it together. This was EXHAUSTING.
It’s difficult for liberals to entertain differing perspectives. You guys are closed minded.
@@llamatreee This isn't merely a different perspective, it's a dangerous, illogical perspective that doesn't deserve entertaining. Also, not all vegans are liberals. Veganism isn't political, it's ethical.
@@nanashidanny I’m not referring to this specific interaction, but the posters reaction to being met with a differing point of view. How is this guys perspective dangerous? He’s just stating facts. Just because you want to save all the chickens, doesn’t mean everyone else has to.
It’s been a while since I watched the vid.
exaxtly. And people who say "we are superior", "humans are intelligent that's why we can do what we want", and not realizing that power and knowledge means protecting the innocent and defenseless, and being a positive guide for the world and all its species, than they're just clearly insecure, and DEFINITELY NOT learned, intelligent, and ESPECIALLY NOT superior to ANYONE OR ANYTHING. They just stand their claiming "human superiority" because they were born human and think claiming "humans are superior or intelligent or both" AUTOMATICALLY puts them in the intelligent or "superior" club, clearly because they know deep down that they lack both and that's why they're trying to push the lie that they really are "superior" or "intelligent" in real life when they're not, and they're basically just asking for a pass to behave cruelly and act out on their violent emotions, and they want positive attention and a positive response for being so "superior" or "intelligent" when they're clearly not. It's usually Males who say or use these excuses. It's funny how these guys trying to desperately act how society says a "masculine alpha male" should be, are deep down so insecure in themselves and have to constantly state and remind everyone how "superior" or "intelligent" they are as the excuse of why they should be allowed to cause harm and fee better about themselves for being the species that CAUSES HARM but isn't the species that HARM IS BEING CAUSED TO. It makes them feel special as if they won some bs "lottery" and thus think they can act however they want. It's no different than poor stupid people who are not just poor financially but poor in heart and mind who suddenly win the lottery and now think they're gods who can treat everyone like trash, constantly brag and show off, use women by lying to them or forcing sex on them, etc. That's how these animal abusing wannabe douchebag "superior" "intelligent" males are
@@nanashidanny exaxtly. And people who say "we are superior", "humans are intelligent that's why we can do what we want", and not realizing that power and knowledge means protecting the innocent and defenseless, and being a positive guide for the world and all its species, than they're just clearly insecure, and DEFINITELY NOT learned, intelligent, and ESPECIALLY NOT superior to ANYONE OR ANYTHING. They just stand their claiming "human superiority" because they were born human and think claiming "humans are superior or intelligent or both" AUTOMATICALLY puts them in the intelligent or "superior" club, clearly because they know deep down that they lack both and that's why they're trying to push the lie that they really are "superior" or "intelligent" in real life when they're not, and they're basically just asking for a pass to behave cruelly and act out on their violent emotions, and they want positive attention and a positive response for being so "superior" or "intelligent" when they're clearly not. It's usually Males who say or use these excuses. It's funny how these guys trying to desperately act how society says a "masculine alpha male" should be, are deep down so insecure in themselves and have to constantly state and remind everyone how "superior" or "intelligent" they are as the excuse of why they should be allowed to cause harm and fee better about themselves for being the species that CAUSES HARM but isn't the species that HARM IS BEING CAUSED TO. It makes them feel special as if they won some bs "lottery" and thus think they can act however they want. It's no different than poor stupid people who are not just poor financially but poor in heart and mind who suddenly win the lottery and now think they're gods who can treat everyone like trash, constantly brag and show off, use women by lying to them or forcing sex on them, etc. That's how these animal abusing wannabe douchebag "superior" "intelligent" males are
Ed’s first debate in 2 years and straight away he meets a full blown psychopath.
Seriously!
i can hardly watch these videos, i don’t know how ed does it
same attracts same.
@@CourageToB are you the guy in the video or what
@@rileymahoney1514 there was some kind of brown, sausage like looking thing on the floor in the video - is that you?
"They're exploiting things I'm taking advantage of" 😂😂 I don't know how Ed didn't burst out laughing at this
Right?!?! I nearly dropped my razor when he said that
Is he wronf
He didn’t say “It’s morally wrong to kill an animal, only if you don’t consume it”. You misunderstood him there, Ed. This psychopath literally said: “If you stamp on an animal and not consume it, it would be a waste of your energy” - I mean it’s that bad 😭! I live in the Netherlands but this guy is so creepy, I immediately locked my door LMAO
@G G Not that you need to believe in souls (in a religious/traditional sense) to believe in morality, but we can all hopefully all agree on the fact this guy has none of that 😂!
lmao big same
I'm gonna go lock my door now too. Serial killer vibes😥
This whole debate was so creepy! How does he think this stuff?
@@fulminisrecovery1264 he’s vile, and so many think like he does.
"iTs oUr gOaL tO iMpRoVe ThE lOnGeViTy oF OuR sPeCiEs" says the non-vegan...
Right? The whole time I was wondering why Ed didn't bring up the fact that (healthy) veganism increases longevity in humans.
Oh, like the fourteen words?
@@TumbleFourYa absolutely.. disease, viruses, antibiotic resistance etc is already doing a pretty good job of interrupting longevity and vegans are at lower risk, especially the healthier their diet is. However all species are at risk in relation to the climate crisis. I think this guy needs to understand those things.
@@BloodyRosie what you saying?
OH MY GOD MISTY HIIII
This dude is the literal definition of dodging the question.
M
mental gymnastics
I was thinking the same. I called them slimy because they are very hard to catch
It’s not that they’re hard to catch it’s that they have their blinders on and refuse to take em off and they don’t want to take them off because they want to continue eating the same things
and sleeper psychopath
Ed did a wrong turn in trying to understand and change this guys morality. His main argue point was that it increases our species longevity. I think Ed should have touched on how being vegan increases longevity, reduce climate change, reduces diseases being spread and how we can feed more people. He would have no choice to accept that, in his world, it is more optimal to be vegan.
That is a very good point - Would have been interesting to see how that would have played out.
I agree with you those would´ve been good reasons, but I think Ed wanted him to grow empathy which he didn´t
Good point, though the guy did say he was previously vegan, and that he didn't stick with it because he wasn't convinced of the ethics.
There was no morality for Ed to change. Ed was simply exposing the guy’s belief system for others to witness.
@@AV57 What did he expose ?
A fascinating dichotomy between someone that is a master of empathy and one that has none. I think this was a very interesting conversation that shows both sides of a spectrum where a majority of people will be placed somewhere in the middle; and will inevitably face this internal dialogue when transitioning to veganism. I think most people, when resisting veganism, are inherently selfish in varying degrees but also understand that what they're doing causes pain and suffering; ultimately, causing a struggle to determine, subjectively, which is more important after considering objective information. Thank you for this great conversation, Ed! Love what you're doing and I've missed these debates! Will support as much as I can!
Honestly I think this guy has plenty of empathy. He was just being a debate lord shit brain. It was clear at several points that he realized Ed had completely dismantled his argument but rather than owning up to being wrong he just continued to vomit up more shit takes. This strikes me as one of those times where a headstrong college kid went back to their dorm and reflected on how wrong they were and probably did make a change, rather than a total sociopath leaving a conversation still wondering why everyone else is different from them. It's a college campus, they're learning and growing, and sometimes they defend ideas that they don't necessarily stand behind as a way of figuring out whether or not they can fully get behind them and identify with them in the future.
@@555ticklemeelmo Yes. Exactly. It’s easier to pretend you’re a psycho than to admit you’re wrong 🤣
Buddy. I’m saving that. We’ll said 👍
@@davefx7949 😂😂😂
What makes you think that the guy doesn't have empathy? He said several times that of course he has empathy towards his own species, because we are wired to do so. If he has a pet he sure has the same empathy towards that pet. None is pretty harsh and unfounded description of his character. At the end of the day we judge him based on this short video. And imo its not ok. The rest of your argument, I can fully stand behind them.
this is what happens when a sociopath takes a philosophy course.
Lmao
I think youre mistaking psychopath for sociopath
@@linkhankinss why do you think that?
@@adamwood87 sociopaths are typically more actively violent and aggressive as well as possibly feeling some empathy whereas psychopaths usually have a total lack of guilt remorse and empathy as well as not having true attachments
@@linkhankinss the books i've read, pertaining to each, define them along lines of one being rooted in nature, the other nurture. other sources i've seen use the terms interchangeably. the type i am describing is someone who lacks empathy and remorse.
36:39 "I didn't feel empathy for that animal. I could see that it was scared knowing that it was about to die. It was kicking and flailing. But I understood that this is what must be done so we can c o n s u m e"
That's terrifying.
Absolutely horrifying
And so unnecessary.
This dude is secretly a cannibal.
@@goji5887 not sure about the unnecessary part, it was done in the middle east, and probably had to be done to feed the people there, and I think you have this kind of dilemma of like, having to let the animal die or letting the people starve, so, I think it's a different scenario compared to where the interview took place, but still, you should've felt empathy when you see another being suffering
@@anantav51 i figured someone would say this, so let me clarify that i'm talking about the painful way that they killed the animal. That's what seems unnecessary to me
I'm so happy you are making more of these! the vegan movement is lucky to have you ❤️🌱
It genuinely is. Without him and Alex O’Connor my cognitive dissonance on this issue would’ve lasted for years longer than it already had.
@@schlamothy cognitive dissonance tho
@@Assassin99584 here’s the attention you wanted. Spamming the same copy-pasted comments working out for you?
@@schlamothy still no arguments try again
@@Assassin99584 repeating two words of my comment isn’t an argument either. I have no argument to respond to, so of course I haven’t given one. Give a better response than just quoting me if you want one.
20:30 "why are you looking at it from their experience" "this is your morality you don't need to consider how they're feeling" omfgg does this finance bro even HEAR himself
Umm "blah blah blah Im a sociopath" is all I heard from that guy
That's what happens when suffering is not part of your moral principles
YES, this one... I had to pause at that point. Does this basically justify any atrocity ever committed in the history of humankind or what? Imagine Mr Adolf H justifying the holocaust in this way. I mean, how does this guy have any relations whatsoever if he is guide din life by "i dont care what you're feeling"...
Listening to that guy I now understand why everything is going wrong in this world
You nailed it!
Exactly
Because of narcissists, yes
This guy is awful. Couldn't imagine having people with that frame of mind in my life.
Unfortunately they walk the earth among us.
Most people from the Middle East are like that.
hes just hiding behind "moral subjectivity", the classic get out of jail free card. some of the things he said i almost couldn't believe. he has no empathy, truly a scary person.
Such people get high ranks in the industrial civilization because people with empathy can't abuse and murder nature for selfish, short-term monetary profits. We are in the midst of the 6th mass extinction because of selfish sociopaths like him. Check out: The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
That guest was exhausting. Too stubborn to admit he has any morality. Evaded the direct questions from Ed Everytime.
Have to disagree. His morality is based on his subjective feelings. It would be interesting to know if he has moral principles or if his morals are based on his current state of feelings.
@@Tom-sx4tw i agree with you
@@Tom-sx4tw I wonder if he has "feelings".
"rats are exploiting us" ahaha I actually had to laugh out loud, this guy is ridiculous 😂 like god damn we understood that you're selfish and don't care about anyone else
They're exploiting from our food, that's what he meant
Like humans don’t spread disease. It’s only rats. Okay 😂😂😂
Very empty and pathetic individual. Having been born in a country that hates and kills animals his indifference is not justified.A compassionate ethical and moral individual is born that way. He’s an empty shell. Talking about his ‘morality’ is preposterous! What morality?
I cringe at this show of moral emptiness. He’s a visitor to this earth. No involvement with anything. So creepy
I agree, it seems that he has very deeply rooted traumas which caused him to be a sociopath/psychopath (like most people who are anti-vegan), or he has a brain injury that prevented him showing compassion and empathy because normal humans are usually born with the capacity/potential for empathy and compassion.
Idk this is rather jumping the gun, i mean as others have said, i doubt he is really a sociopath so much as he has these flawed opinions and would rather defend them than say "hmm idk about this" (as many people will do).. and a lot of people just don't get it with animals. They don't get how deeply animals actually experience the world, they think they're dumb fucking automatons
@@NoOne-hg1qc I think we should believe what this guy is telling us about what he thinks and feels.
"You can apply morality to anything, you can apply it to trees"
Trees are more sentient than this guy.
But he has a point. Recent studies on trees and plants show that they do communicate with each other. A vegan may be eating a living thing that was just in a conversation with his buddy a few days ago.
@@gardenofeels6872 But to feed animals, there are more plants killed than if we eat the plants directly, so if plants were sentient, it would still reduce their "suffering" to go vegan, because the overall number of plants killed would be lower.
@@gardenofeels6872 False
Exchanging data is not "talking". Not literally.
By that logic your phone, and most of your devices in your home, are alive, sentient, self aware and talk to each other.
Intelligent =/= alive/sentient
@@HiddenStr3ngth That was a very bad analogy. Phones and devices only "talk" to each other because humans allow them to. We invented them all. Trees were talking to each other before humans were on the planet.
You've fallen into a semantic trap. As a zoologist, I can tell you that "sentience" is an extremely hard concept to define. One person's sentient being is another person's triple-decker sandwich. Are cows "sentient?" They are among the dumbest animals on the planet. Chickens are even dumber. Superstitions about them having deep thoughts and emotions are just wishful thinking and methods used by vegans to find recruits.
What is YOUR definition of sentience?
@@gardenofeels6872 out of interest, would you consider a human being who has the mental capacity of a cow to be sentient? It is definitely a tough thing to define haha
He really struggles with developing individual agency. He's very group-oriented. He gives a disclaimer every time he is asked for his individual morality. "But that's my own personal morality."
he believes in that "nO-god" nonsense
and has zero grasp of inherent morality
He can't develop it because he is legitimately a psychopath and should be behind bars before he hurts someone
"I went vegan for a year". Sure you did mate.
5 euros say that year included a long transitional period from his previous diet and it influenced by the Game changers doc. Health reasons.
I went because of a Netflix documentary and has been one ver since (5 years now). Doesn’t matter the motivation, if it sticks it’s a good thing
I had to stop watching this stupidity and ignorance is more than I can take. It's a scary person to think there are many of them. Where is his soul?
@@ladydy2831 oh..so.. so true. Eds patience is amazing. This guy makes me so frustrated 😅
You’re angry. You have no idea if he did or didn’t. You can only go by what someone says. You haven’t got a crystal ball so stop this ignorant behaviour. If his energy levels were low due to vegan then leave him alone
The guy's position was reduced to "Might makes Right" yet refuses to bite the bullet on homophobia and slavery based on the collective social morality of the time.
Also Jon Venus vibes 😅
I’m a vegan so I’m not trying to be a dick. His argument wasn’t “might makes right.” It was: people who have the power to do things they want will do them.
It’s not fair, it’s not right, but it’s just what happens. Some people lack empathy. And some of these people, we actually can’t fix. Fortunately, most people do actually care deep down, whether they claim to or not.
@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll He was arguing for a society's collective morality (and not himself) when speaking about homophobia in his former country.
journey
Totally Jon Venus vibes with the sentences not making sense grammatically. Ex: “In my country, homosexuals are outlawed.” And “Their morality has been facilitated to believe that.” You can tell what they mean but technically the words are misused.
@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll Eh, it very much was might [of ideas] makes right. The prevailing moral system wins out
I couldn’t understand his refusal to acknowledge the wrong in hurting animals, until he told the goat story. I think what he experienced was traumatic, and as a defense mechanism he convinced himself that moral is subjective under any circumstance.
Yes, he went through Cognitive Dissonance.
Yeah. Exactly ... it was either so traumatic for him, that he just can't face it so he has to stay in denial . Or he is straight up psychopath.
You justify hurting animals yourself. In order to grow and eat plants, countless animals have to die. Yet you continue to justify your actions. So you’re just like everybody else, unfortunately
nah he smirked a few times while telling the story. He enjoyed it.
This is actually really hard to watch. Ed you have such an incredible amount of patience. I fear this is like banging your head against a brick wall though, unfortunately
Neh, it’s more like standing up for something believe in, almost like stopping a brick wall from falling with your head. There’s more of a reason to it
Ed lost this one
@@llamatreee He’s clearly intelligent and put it forward more eloquently, but the argument he is putting forward is far from intelligent, it’s just the same “might makes right”.
If he wasn’t being intellectually dishonest, then he’s a psychopath who can only understand empathy as an idea which he’s trying to rationalise post hoc.
He won’t be smiling for long if - as Ed said at the end - he meets someone who honestly feels that way.
@@jamesb9448 If I remember, the point he’s making is that morality is objective. Which is true. That doesn’t make him a psychopath.
@@llamatreee
He was either being dishonest about feeling no empathy - in which case he was being intellectually dishonest, or he was being honest and is - by definition - a psychopath.
Ps. I take it you meant to say subjective, as opposed to objective.
Straight off the bat with one of evolutionary biologist's most hated misunderstandings. Biologically we have no desire to improve our species, only a desire to continue the life of our genes
Yessss
oh god thank you! I am studying biology and this was making me mad. The fact that even the idea of "group selection" has been thoroughly debunked in the scientific community, makes it all the more ridiculous to think that we have an innate desire to further the success of our entire species
he should read the selfish gene.
@@davidhartmann1903 As should everyone
Fun fact: Darwin didn't like the term evolution because evolution implies progress, and like you said, he believed that evolution is not a process of improving a species but simply a process of adapting to surroundings.
His body language at 18:00 is so interesting to me, when Ed asks the guy if he would stop him from stomping on a dog. You can just SEE the cognitive dissonance: the pregnant pause, the shrug, the deep breath, the eye roll and the sigh in his voice just scream that he doesn't believe what he's saying, at least not fully. Essentially he was cornered by Ed's argument into saying something he doesn't actually believe only because doing otherwise would mean betraying his own logic and give reason to Ed.
Thats how you read into it but I read into it as in he knows what he's going to say would be controversial and hard to hear so he was trying to think about wording it a little more than usual
it's easy for guys like these to say "i don't care", "yeah, i'd do it", because it's hypotheticals, they'll never be put in a situation where they have to do it. it's like when guys go "i'd eat and swallow shit for a hundred thousand dollars" or "if there was a shooter i'd totally tackle him and take the gun", no you fucking wouldn't. it's machismo posturing, where in order to maintain their current actions without feeling guilt, they lie and pretend that they're proud of being psychos.
I actually don't think it was cognitive dissonance. I think he really didn't understand the point of the question.
He doesn't see animals as living, feeling beings. For him, they are an economic asset like money or a toaster, as evidenced in the 'it wouldn't be worth the energy if you didn't consume it' argument about the dog and being so confused as to why Ed looked at things from the animal's perspective. So, for him, that question was as ridiculous as us asking 'would you destroy that toaster?' and his answer reflected that-- 'not if I didn't use the pieces for parts.'
For what it's worth, I really hope it WAS cognitive dissonance though, since that would indicate that there's a chance he'll change in the future.
@@lengray7401 I hope you had a good turkey for thanksgiving
@@lengray7401 plus that isn’t what an economic asset is
Dude justified every atrocity that has ever happened just so he doesn't have to stop hurting animals when he doesn't need to.
No he said he’s find with atrocities against animals not humans.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing That's entirely beside the point, whether he likes it or not the logic he used justifies every other atrocity. If someone wanted to they could use the same reasoning he did to justify other horrific things and if he wanted his logic to make sense he would have to bite the bullet and accept it or be rendered a hypocrite with double standards that are invalid and irrational.
A lot of the people in these debates sound like sociopaths once Ed starts to peel the layers of their 'arguments'. It is one thing to not be vegan but it's just disingenuous to try and argue that veganism isn't the more moral choice.
Yea towards the end you really get the sociopathic vibes - gave me the chills
Agreed, but this guy in particular seems a bit off.
@@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376 yea, he tried to hold on to his position and basically just accepted the dark place it led him to in order to stay consistent. Most people prefer to accept obvious inconsistencies.
It is very difficult to on the spot drop your entire moral worldview and accept let alone admit that you have been immoral your entire live. This takes time.
I think Ed gave him a lot to think about. He might get around.
A truly pathetic person who accepted his traumas and keep spreading them. Such people get high ranks in the industrial civilization because people with empathy can't abuse and murder nature for selfish, short-term monetary profits. We are in the midst of the 6th mass extinction because of selfish sociopaths like him. Check out: The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 💖
@@RaphaelBraun I think you are completely wrong. This wasn't a person learning anything, not even about himself - You can see he is perplexed whenever Ed talks about being compassionate or not inflicting pain. He is wired differently, it's not an act.