With melasma and retin A there is something i don't understand. For 3 years i was using tretinoin and retinol and it worse my melasma. It looked like it took it from my deep skin on the surface and didn't lightened so it was worse than before.
If tretinoin was worsening your melasma, then you were getting some degree of inflammation from tretinoin use, thus it was actually giving you post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation. You would do better to research other "anti-inflammatory" skin lighteners (Though highly effective, Hydroquinone can also be irritating, and it too, can ironically lead to hyperpigmentation). Whichever lightener you settle on, do combine it with a mild hydroxy acid product for superior results.
Tretinoin removes your skin barrier. A compromised skin barrier is vastly more vulnerable to photodamage. No, it's not true that with long term use you'll somehow "regrow" it because your skin learns to "tolerate" tretinoin. It may not even come back the way it was if you stop the drug. Proponents of tretinoin and excessive consumption will have you believe that your skin barrier is a useless little thing you can just peel off and replace with CeraVe and SPF. That is absolute nonsense. Not only will they never compare to a functioning skin barrier - most studies showing the efficacy of moisturizers and sunscreen are conducted in controlled lab conditions. You will never be able to replicate that reported efficacy without being an actual mouse in a lab. Additionally, chemical sunscreen filters NEED a skin barrier to bind to, otherwise they don't work. So it's probable that when you're a tretinoin user, your Korean 50SPF chemical sunscreen is doing absolutely nothing. (This could be the reason why retinoids are largely absent in Korean skincare.) Tl;dr your pigmentation likely was made worse because tretinoin made your skin more vulnerable to UV damage.
'Feed your skin" what it needs, and not oversaturate and overwhelm it with a bunch of products. Love this! ... I always question everything that is being marketed so heavily in mainstream. Thank you Ivan! ... Blessings
Epidermal hyperplasia (the "thickening" marketers describe) is a reaction to damage and inflammation. Most collagen induction treatments rely on this effect to produce initially desirable results. In fact, acute sunburn will also temporarily thicken your skin. In the long run, inflammation thins and weakens the skin. ATRA (tretinoin) is also a differentiating agent. Its obvious detrimental effects on fat aside, the main principle behind retinoids in most medical applications (most famously, cancer treatment) is rapid depletion of stem cells in fast turnover tissues. In principle, retinoic acids force your stem cells to become terminally differentiated, while also reducing stem cell proliferation. This is the scientifically correct description of an event marketers refer to as "increased skin turnover". Now, the average dermatologist will tell you that skin stem cells are "infinite", have no meaningful hayflick limit and therefore can be "spent" as much as you want. This is plainly untrue, since 1) skin stem cells display senescence and 2) many people's fast-turnover tissues (skin, blood, gut lining) never recover from differentiating cancer treatments like tretinoin and isotretinoin.
Love this , no nonsense , less is more approach . We believe all the skin product marketing , but it seems it’s just not necessary . Thanks for your scientifically honest approach which has certainly enlightened me !
Thank you for sharing the truth. I am an ex-user of Tretinoin. I definitely experienced epidermal fat loss in the face and body, wherever I applied it. I also got purple discoloration under the eyes from thinning skin. I had never had discoloration prior to using Tretinoin. It also dried out my skin. I stopped using Tretunoin and focused on mostly Hyaluronic Acid anx Vitamin C usage aling with the Tria Beauty Laser which has brought my face back to a better collagen and facial fat ratio again. People beware, the beauty industry only cares about making money off of us in whatever ways they can.
That's interesting ... but I think every thin person experiences facial fat loss as they age. Maybe it's a question of age too? I am dubious about the information in this video, because we quite often see women who have used retinol for a long time and who have a phenomenal face without any wrinkles. The result speaks more than the theoretical explanations I believe ...
Excellent video! What do you think about Retinaldahyde? Dr. Ben Johnson from Osmosis skincare has been saying for years now that Retin-A, Tretinoin , thin the skin. He got so much backlash for it. I have tried Tretinoin and retinol on my skin, and I get so inflamed. I switched to Retinaldahyde used it for a while no issues. Now I haven’t used a vitamin A for almost 9 months, and my skin has never looked better. Thank you again for all the education, love this format. ❤
Yeah, many people simply do not tolerate tretinoin, and retinaldehyde seems like a good compromise. Another surprising product you could possibly consider is Tazarotene, especially mixed or buffered with an emollient cream or serum. Even though Tazarotene is supposedly "stronger" then tretinoin, for some people it can be considerably less irritating. This is because unlike tretinoin, Tazarotene is very receptor specific. It's what I currently use (I don't have to buffer though, as my skin is very "retinized" at this point) and I love it.
This is false retina, does not thin. Skin... It increases cell turnover faster, which means you release that skin cells faster.. If this is completely false, only in my learning from my mentor in premed . I have a dermatologist who is amazing... This is completely not accurate and misinformation.
I have to look into this more thoroughly. On first glance, I don't see a real difference between retinaldehyde and retin a. It gets converted to retinoic acid by enzymes in the skin.
Retin A and Retinols are excellent products and game changers, especially when used on older skin. I would never advocate for using it daily, I view it as a periodical treatment ---shed and move on. It literally keeps your skin from going crepe-like, unless you have excessive sun damage.
Great video. I counsel my clients to not use Retin-A or to only use it sparingly if they can't let go. The clients who were deep in to Retin-A use had thin, inflamed skin. After weaning them off and transitioning them over to products that support healthy cellular metabolism their skin is healthier and thicker! There is a 'breaking up' period that they have to work through, but it's always been worth it. Retin-A is indiscriminate and will cause all cells to prematurely desquamate. Many of these cells are still communicating with our immune system causing unnecessary, long term inflammation.
Hola tengo 70 años y sí tengo arrugas pero no tantas, mi piel se ve fresca y lozana, he usado su producto durante un año con magníficos resultados. Otro beneficio es que me llega el producto hasta el nacimiento del cabello y me han crecido muchos cabellitos nuevos, es grandioso
I don't use tretinoin myself because here in Europe it's almost impossible to get a prescription for it unless you have problem skin like acne, but it is not given for anti aging purposes. However i do know women who use it mainly from the US and i have to say their skin looks healthy, smooth and has way less sagging 🤷♀️
I guess you’ll never know what’s giving you your great results, could be as simple as diligent use of sunscreen. I’m 65, never used Retin A, never had injectables & people think I’m in my late 40s!
I’ve used tretinoin for 15 years, I always get compliments on my skin, I look 10 years younger and I haven’t had a pimple in 2 years. I’ll continue to use it as long as I can.
Hello, I would be interested to know what do you think about creams with glyolic acid, with quite high concentration 7-10-25%, as it has more or less the same principle of action as retinol, retinaldehyde, retin-A, meaning exfoliation, increaing cell turnover. Thank you
Apparently it's not the same process. Glycolic acid physically dissolves the top layer of your skin. Retinoic acid works by sending a signal that forces your stem cells to become terminally differentiated faster.
Speaking of vitamin A deficiency - nearly no one in western countries is vitamin A deficient. Widespread vitamin fortification, as well as the natural composition of Western diet, make that nearly impossible. In fact, old people are generally found to have borderline toxic levels of retinols in their tissues while being deficient in everything else.
Tired of this whole thing. We hear something is great. We then hear it's bad. Does anyone know anything or is it we have a world of confused providers and scientists?
Yes it's tiring to hear "debate" that's not really debate, just people talking above each other. Here we can have real debate because our goal is to get at the truth and not commercial self-promotion. Please stick with us.
I completely disagree with Ivan on this one. Yes, a couple of studies have theorized some of the concepts he is explaining here, but these theories have not yet been fully and conclusively proven. What we do have from 50 years of tretinoin use is "THE PUDDING"🍧🍧🍧 As in "The proof is in the pudding", and there is tons of sweet, creamy pudding to show, as incontrovertible proof, that tretinoin and other retinoids have the extraordinary ability to keep skin acting and looking YOUNG. I'll start with this tasty treat: ruclips.net/video/6j7eJJVYhko/видео.htmlsi=EJ1_UyRLDAeP2p7Z Melissa is 65 in this video, she's currently 68 and looks just as luminous and radiant🌟 now as she does in this video. It's almost as if she hasn't aged AT ALL. How many women of 68 do you know that look like this ? (And my God, look at that jawline!) I'm only a couple of years younger than Melissa, and After 20+ years of consistent tretinoin use my skin is practically lineless, with no nasal labial lines, and zero sagging or laxity. How many individuals over sixty can say that about their own faces ?? Melissa has had no plastic surgery, or has ever used any Botox/fillers. What she has done is religiously used tretinoin for more than 30 years. Notice the luminosity that emanates from her plump skin, and that's with ZERO MOISTURIZER ! Melissa like myself is completely against moisturizer use. As keeping skin continuously "moist" in my opinion weakens the skin. Melissa, me and countless others, are the actual unassailable proof, of the MIRACLE that can be achieved with prolonged, consistent use of prescription retinoids. We are the actual "Proof in the pudding". I can go read the papers that Ivan is pointing out here, and I have, all of them, but then I only have to look in the mirror, Or look at Melissa's gorgeous, GORGEOUS, radiant face, and all of these hypothetical theories go right out the window. Because it is just simply UNDENIABLE what Retin-A has done for our faces and the quality of our skin.
Melissa, hot and flashy and everyone else all had Botox at the very least. Jennifer Myers is the only one worth using as a brag, but she is Asian+healthy, therefore would've looked this way regardless. And for every tretinoin pudding, there is a shriveled tretinoin prune. Especially among those who start too young.
@@stefaniyak6249 I beg to differ, in my opinion the only one reason not to be on a retinoid after the age of 30 is because your skin simply does not tolerate them, meaning, you're experiencing an overwhelming inflammatory response. Otherwise, EVERYONE could benefit from consistent retinoid use after a certain age. If you have a friend that looks like a shriveled mess from "tretinoin use". Believe you me, it's not the tretinoin.
@@billie5057 Everything looks good, the only suggestions that l think could possibly be helpful are : 1. Make sure that this peptide cream you're using has the proper percentage of peptides in it. Most of the time peptides are included in skincare simply as "window dressing" and not in proper amounts to make a difference, also, consider switching that peptide cream for a peptide serum instead, peptides are large molecules, and we want to give them all the chance they can get to penetrate the skin, serums are superior vehicles for this. Try the purple bottle from these guys : ruclips.net/user/shortsPmfxorqAwH0?si=JOdqIqydIN3-O2md. This is an EXCELLENT, reasonably priced peptide product, and in the proper concentration to actually make a difference, it is also VERY emollient, so you can probably ditch the cream. 2. Another thing I would suggest is to get a couple of low level TCA peels a year, like 15%. if you're inexperienced at this, I suggest you go to an esthetics salon. Needless to say, after those peels sunscreen is a must.
We will never really know why Melissa etc….look so beautiful! I’m 65 & most people think I’m in my late 40’s…..my protocol Diligent use of sunscreen No Retin A No injectables No cosmetic procedures Don’t believe everything you see on RUclips, injectables & a myriad of cosmetic treatments & surgery are very likely to have given these RUclipsrs their beautiful results 😊
Could you do a video on the effect fatty acid composition has on skin appearance? I’ve seen conflicting studies show PUFAs are better for skin aging and others showing they’re detrimental. PUFAs are fundamentally unstable and require antioxidants to stabilize.
Ok i really wanna know more about retinols (not retinA). It probably doesn’t lead facial fat loss, but does it harm by thinning the skin? Does it provide benefits at all?
You would be even more amazed to know for how much this sir sells his own products. Always be skeptical oof individuals that claim or have the truth that no one else in the world has
a woman with a yt channel ie Jennifer Myers claims she has been on tretinoin for some 20 years and she has great results. how do you explain it? is adapalene the same?
I think most of the dermatologist s are so busy that they are just following the old info if we took this info to them maybe they will start looking at the truth. Hopefully 😊
How can a dermatologist of 20 or more years not have noticed the simple fact that his patients who have been on tretinoin for sometimes 30+ years look considerably YOUNGER than his patients of the same age who never used it. Most dermatologist aren't mumbling idiots, they have witnessed with their very own eyes the extraordinary difference that long term prescription retinoid use can make. Nobody's trying to pull your leg, or run away with your money. Competent, experienced physicians see these undisputable results every day in their practices, these clinicians aren't making up stories to try and fool you.
@@moonhaze8332 I am not a jaded person. I believe in my fellow man and woman until I am given reason not to believe in them. Please ask your derm to read the Bhawan paper. Ask them if it is not deceitful to ignore the 77 percent reduction in papillary dermal structure. And if they mumble “small study” ask them to review the much larger Olsen paper which showed dose dependent reductions in both epidermal and dermal structure. Then ask them to produce any countervailing evidence if equal weight. You will find that they change the subject.
@@bayleymacintosh5622 true, it is a combination of factors but also my skin hasn’t thinned and it hasn’t for many people. I think the main error in thinking is that everyone will have the same side effects from a medication, and that’s not true. Some will and some won’t.
@@bayleymacintosh5622 that’s true, it is certainly a combination of factors, but also my skin hasn’t thinned and I haven’t aged faster. I think the main error in thinking here is that everyone experiences the same side effects from medications, and that’s just not true. This doctor was talking about thinning skin after 6mths. I’ve been using it for 20 years. If I was part of a clinic trial, my response to the medication would not align with his hypothesis. So the moral here is, if you have a side effect, see your prescribing doctor. If you don’t and the medication is working, continue using it.
@@ST-111 It definitely helped prevent acne scarring (hyperpigmentation due to acne) for me because I had cystic acne and never had any pitting or scarring from it the whole time I was using the retin-a! And now that I’ve stopped, almost every time I get a pimple it leaves a dark spot on my skin. I was one of the unfortunate women that had devastating fat loss after getting rf-microneedling only one time by a trained, long-time experienced NP who said she’d never seen anything like that happen (she was also horrified). After the fact, I learned about skin-thinning after long term use of retin-a (about 25 years of use for me at the time) and I think that’s what made me so prone to the massive fat loss. None of my dermatologists over the years warned me about long-term use. In fact, I was told I had to keep using it. Though it seems they probably were also ignorant of the risks.
@@ST-111Sorry, I replied to this but then it didn’t go through! I was using retin-a from my late teens into my early 40s for acne. I never had any scarring or hyperpigmentation despite cystic acne. But since I’ve stopped using it almost every acne cyst I get leaves at least a dark spot behind (because hormonal acne is still somehow a thing even in my mid-40s 😞). I didn’t know about skin thinning (and apparently none of my dermatologists did either that were writing me prescriptions all those years). When I had just one session of rf-microneedling (with a trained, decade-long experienced nurse) after all those years of retin-a use, I experienced devastating fat loss that she and I were both horrified by. Now I’m realizing it was probably due to skin that had been thinned by decades of retina-a use.
I used tretanoin for about 4 weeks. Prescribed by a Dermatologist, although it wasn't a product I had asked for. Tretanoin destroyed my skin. Dark spots, pit marks, an absolute horror. I'm trying to self heal with organic castor oil. Stay away from it.
Unfortunately many dermatologists don't provide recommendations along with it's prescription. Based on that reaction, you probably used too much too fast, and if you weren't using sunscreen, even worse
What about Adapalene? My dermatologist prescribed me Adapalene to improve the appearance of pores but I have read it has the same effects than Retin-A.
I am a 25-year-old female and Korean. I heard that retinol is good for pigmentation, so I applied it on the eyelids and middle of the eyes with small scars. My eyelid skin returned a little from February 8th due to severe inflammation, but after the inflammation due to reduced fat, dry eyes and pigmentation are severe. I ordered safflower seed oil separately because I heard it was good in Ivan's product, but I'm considering adipo because I don't know if it will work. (It's a bit expensive..) But when I searched for other functional cosmetics, I read a paper that adenosine is also good for fibroblasts and lipogenesis when I was in the 1st grade of ewg. I wonder if this works, have you ever noticed adenosine? It's so shocking and sad..
hi, thank you for sharing your experience. Since you are young and only used retinol for a short period of time you should be able to completely recover from the damage even if you don’t do anything. If you would like to try Adipeau, please email help@adipeau.com and we can arrange for you to try it.
What about a person who struggles with acne? The only thing that helps is a bit of tretinoin every other night with loads of sandwiching w/moisturizer and a bit of morning benzoyl peroxide just on my chin where I get cysts. This has been a battle since I was 12 and I'm now 44. And this combo is the only thing that keeps me mostly clear.
Then don’t change your routine, keep doing what works for you as you have been using this routine for decades and it improves your skin. I on the other hand had a really bad reaction to Retin A after 9 months. It thinned my skin and I lost a lot of face fat. The clinical evidence is out there that Retin A helps improve people’s skin and some have been using it since the late 80’s but there is a minority like me who it has been a nightmare for and there is clinical evidence of that too. I believe if you are doing good on Retin A after one or two years then you are pretty safe to continue but if you notice skin thinning and fat lose in your face within the fist year then stop it. I think it is fantastic that you have found products that work for you.
Totally disagree on the thinning of the skin and also that nobody almost is deficient in Vitamin A. Personally I have used Retin-A for a long time and my skin is THICKER now than it was 10 years ago.
The science is pretty straightforward. There is no debate on the fact that on average the skin experiences a thinning effect. Individual results do vary.
@@aeducator1 „Science“ was also telling us for many years that margarine is healthier than butter. Not even mentioning what they told us about covid shots. Science is always science until it gets disproven by newer and more up to date knowledge; the studies and even the interpretation of results are oftentimes at best flawed and at worst manipulated. I prefer to go by my own experience and observations. Maybe for some people it does cause thinning but it cannot be a general occurrence as I know lots of people who used tretinoin for many decades and their skin is wonderful. Just my two cents.
If you are a healthy (no end stage liver disease, no genetic issues) non-underweight adult living in the West and eating anything even slightly resembling Western diet, you cannot be deficient in vitamin A. You're more likely to have subclinical toxicity. You can easily be deficient in vitamin A if you're an impoverished newborn/toddler in the middle of a famine in the global South. GMO rice that contains carotenoids was created for this situation.
Have you tried micro current for acne? It works at a very low power. Also cold plasma treatment is effective for acne. The tretinoin should really be used as little as possible
I think he's saying that a mild Retinol is less impactful or damaging to the dermis as a prescription grade Retin A would be if used on a daily, ongoing basis. He does not recommend using a prescription grade Retin A daily, it is too strong and you will observe thinning of the skin over time from overuse.
Carotenoids are rate limited and therefore unlikely to cause toxicity. Preformed retinol isn't safe, and retinoic acid (tretinoin, isotretinoin, etc) is the most unsafe form of vitamin A.
Could you have shown us the written studies you speak of please? And name the scintists? Also, I don't want to sound rude but I noticed that there were lots of 'glitches' in this video where sentences were cut off and then resumed, presumably, further on in the donversation. I'm just extremely wary. I don't know who to believe in the skincare industry. No one seems to have our best interests at heart, it's more about making money by playing on our insecurities. We all need good, solid advice on how best to take care of our skin.
@@enibullaj3991 yes! All of these videos are intended as a provocation for further inquiry. You can start with the publications cited in the description. You can then search publications that cite these publications. That way you will know if they’ve been superseded by more current research.
If you are not convinced or just want to check this scientist on your own, ask the author of the episode because twitting in this manier suggest that you just want to disegree and you don't care if it is true or not.
@@queenbee7336actually there are scientific papers published that Ivan has presented previously. Check them out on his other videos! You may need to dive deeper into who, what & how some other Retin A “research” you have read was done. Blind study? Who paid for the study? How long was the study period?
Yes, by all means decide for yourself, but do so knowing the facts. Genetics research may find a subgroup of tretinoin users that react positively but for now we only know the average effect is to thin the skin.
8:25 Nail on the coffin. The dude doesn't prove any of his arguments, doesn't state actual studies, and now considers a proof that chat gpt agreed with him? 💀 Is he at all trying to sound credible
@@auricia201 the papers may not be available to you but you can see the excerpts and the citations in this medium post. medium.com/@aivangalanin/how-retin-a-gaslighting-dumbs-down-skincare-and-encourages-bullying-6cde5b65167b
@@aeducator1 I appreciate the reply, but please provide the DOI of all the studies used (I assume there will be several, to justify the amount of assertiveness), that way we'll be able to analyse the whole context and evaluate the validity. Scientific fallacies are very easy to make
@@auricia201 I'm genuinely excited to have someone kick these tires. So thank you. The sources listed in the medium post are: Woodley DT, Zelickson AS, Briggaman RA, Hamilton TA, Weiss JS, Ellis CN, Voorhees JJ. Treatment of photoaged skin with topical tretinoin increases epidermal-dermal anchoring fibrils. A preliminary report. JAMA. 1990 Jun 13;263(22):3057-9. PMID: 2342217. Griffiths CEM, Russman AN, Mjmudar G, et al. Restoration of collagen formation photodamaged human skin by tretinoin (retinoic acid). N Engl J Med 1993; 329: 530-5. Olsen E et al, Tretinoin emollient cream for photodamaged skin: Results of 48-week, multicenter, double-blind studies, J Am Acad Dermatol 1997; 37:217-26. Kang S et al, “Long-Term Efficacy and Safety of Tretinoin Emollient Cream 0.05% in the Treatment of Photodamaged Facial Skin”, Am J Clin Dermatol 2005; 6 (4): 245-253 Bhawan J, Histologic Evaluation of the Long Term Effects of Tretinoin on Photodamaged Skin, Journal of Dermatological Science 11 (1996); 177-182. Cho S, Lowe L, Hamilton TA, Fisher GJ, Voorhees JJ, Kang S. Long-term treatment of photoaged human skin with topical retinoic acid improves epidermal cell atypia and thickens the collagen band in papillary dermis. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2005 Nov;53(5):769-74. doi: 10.1016/j.jaad.2005.06.052. PMID: 16243124. Yamamoto O, Bhawan J, Solares G, Tsay AW, Gilchrest BA. Ultrastructural effects of topical tretinoin on dermo-epidermal junction and papillary dermis in photodamaged skin. A controlled study. Exp Dermatol. 1995 Jun;4(3):146-54. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0625.1995.tb00238.x. PMID: 7551562. Oikarinen H, Oikarinen AI, Tan EM, Abergel RP, Meeker CA, Chu ML, Prockop DJ, Uitto J. Modulation of procollagen gene expression by retinoids. Inhibition of collagen production by retinoic acid accompanied by reduced type I procollagen messenger ribonucleic acid levels in human skin fibroblast cultures. J Clin Invest. 1985 May;75(5):1545-53. doi: 10.1172/JCI111859. PMID: 2987306; PMCID: PMC425494.
@@aeducator1 Don't be too excited. I'm not going to buy your cream, I think you are misleading people claiming you are a scientist, I've seen you cherry pick scientific studies to further your cause, your discourse is that of the typical charlatan, full of storytelling and sciency terms without actual explanations and proofs. And the article you wrote after Dr. Drays video response follows the same discourse, plus, trying to present yourself as a victim. It's very sad. I don't think common people should be going around reading scientific studies, because there is too much knowledge involved, we can easily misinterpret a value or a sentence, since we don't understand all the work behind. And I include you in those people, since a general "masters in science" in a Business school does Not give you the knowledge and critical thinking necessary. I'll still take a peek at those, keeping in mind they were cherry picked by you, and that there is another massive amount of studies that will actually prove Tretinoin works. Also, I know scientific studies sometimes get negative results, and I know some "scientist" are not honest presenting those results. Finding a shady paper won't make me doubt the whole scientific community, and trust a business man instead 🤷🏻♀️
With melasma and retin A there is something i don't understand. For 3 years i was using tretinoin and retinol and it worse my melasma. It looked like it took it from my deep skin on the surface and didn't lightened so it was worse than before.
I believe Hydroquinone is the primary treatment for melasma, which can be tough to treat.
If tretinoin was worsening your melasma, then you were getting some degree of inflammation from tretinoin use, thus it was actually giving you post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation.
You would do better to research other "anti-inflammatory" skin lighteners (Though highly effective, Hydroquinone can also be irritating, and it too, can ironically lead to hyperpigmentation).
Whichever lightener you settle on, do combine it with a mild hydroxy acid product for superior results.
Thank you, I will check it.
Tretinoin removes your skin barrier. A compromised skin barrier is vastly more vulnerable to photodamage. No, it's not true that with long term use you'll somehow "regrow" it because your skin learns to "tolerate" tretinoin. It may not even come back the way it was if you stop the drug.
Proponents of tretinoin and excessive consumption will have you believe that your skin barrier is a useless little thing you can just peel off and replace with CeraVe and SPF. That is absolute nonsense. Not only will they never compare to a functioning skin barrier - most studies showing the efficacy of moisturizers and sunscreen are conducted in controlled lab conditions. You will never be able to replicate that reported efficacy without being an actual mouse in a lab. Additionally, chemical sunscreen filters NEED a skin barrier to bind to, otherwise they don't work. So it's probable that when you're a tretinoin user, your Korean 50SPF chemical sunscreen is doing absolutely nothing. (This could be the reason why retinoids are largely absent in Korean skincare.)
Tl;dr your pigmentation likely was made worse because tretinoin made your skin more vulnerable to UV damage.
'Feed your skin" what it needs, and not oversaturate and overwhelm it with a bunch of products. Love this! ... I always question everything that is being marketed so heavily in mainstream.
Thank you Ivan! ... Blessings
Thank you for listening It's great to see there are people out there like you.
Epidermal hyperplasia (the "thickening" marketers describe) is a reaction to damage and inflammation. Most collagen induction treatments rely on this effect to produce initially desirable results. In fact, acute sunburn will also temporarily thicken your skin. In the long run, inflammation thins and weakens the skin.
ATRA (tretinoin) is also a differentiating agent. Its obvious detrimental effects on fat aside, the main principle behind retinoids in most medical applications (most famously, cancer treatment) is rapid depletion of stem cells in fast turnover tissues. In principle, retinoic acids force your stem cells to become terminally differentiated, while also reducing stem cell proliferation. This is the scientifically correct description of an event marketers refer to as "increased skin turnover".
Now, the average dermatologist will tell you that skin stem cells are "infinite", have no meaningful hayflick limit and therefore can be "spent" as much as you want. This is plainly untrue, since 1) skin stem cells display senescence and 2) many people's fast-turnover tissues (skin, blood, gut lining) never recover from differentiating cancer treatments like tretinoin and isotretinoin.
Wow. I didn't know that sunburn had the same effect. Thank you for sharing.
Love this , no nonsense , less is more approach . We believe all the skin product marketing , but it seems it’s just not necessary . Thanks for your scientifically honest approach which has certainly enlightened me !
Thank you. When you think of the creams like fatty fish it sort of makes intuitive sense.
Thank you for sharing the truth. I am an ex-user of Tretinoin. I definitely experienced epidermal fat loss in the face and body, wherever I applied it. I also got purple discoloration under the eyes from thinning skin.
I had never had discoloration prior to using Tretinoin. It also dried out my skin. I stopped using Tretunoin and focused on mostly Hyaluronic Acid anx Vitamin C usage aling with the Tria Beauty Laser which has brought my face back to a better collagen and facial fat ratio again.
People beware, the beauty industry only cares about making money off of us in whatever ways they can.
Thank you for sharing your experience ❤
That's interesting ... but I think every thin person experiences facial fat loss as they age. Maybe it's a question of age too? I am dubious about the information in this video, because we quite often see women who have used retinol for a long time and who have a phenomenal face without any wrinkles. The result speaks more than the theoretical explanations I believe ...
@@mariannelabanane2589 thank you for engaging
Excellent video! What do you think about Retinaldahyde? Dr. Ben Johnson from Osmosis skincare has been saying for years now that Retin-A, Tretinoin , thin the skin. He got so much backlash for it. I have tried Tretinoin and retinol on my skin, and I get so inflamed. I switched to Retinaldahyde used it for a while no issues. Now I haven’t used a vitamin A for almost 9 months, and my skin has never looked better. Thank you again for all the education, love this format. ❤
I was wondering the same thing about retinaldahyde and what Dr. Ben Johnson says. Maybe it's time for me to throw my tret in the trash too, lol!
Yeah, many people simply do not tolerate tretinoin, and retinaldehyde seems like a good compromise.
Another surprising product you could possibly consider is Tazarotene, especially mixed or buffered with an emollient cream or serum. Even though Tazarotene is supposedly "stronger" then tretinoin, for some people it can be considerably less irritating. This is because unlike tretinoin, Tazarotene is very receptor specific. It's what I currently use (I don't have to buffer though, as my skin is very "retinized" at this point) and I love it.
This is false retina, does not thin. Skin... It increases cell turnover faster, which means you release that skin cells faster.. If this is completely false, only in my learning from my mentor in premed . I have a dermatologist who is amazing... This is completely not accurate and misinformation.
I have to look into this more thoroughly. On first glance, I don't see a real difference between retinaldehyde and retin a. It gets converted to retinoic acid by enzymes in the skin.
Retin A and Retinols are excellent products and game changers, especially when used on older skin. I would never advocate for using it daily, I view it as a periodical treatment ---shed and move on. It literally keeps your skin from going crepe-like, unless you have excessive sun damage.
I hear you. Older skin, periodically. Makes sense. Now we just need to experiment with how often and the weakest effective strength ❤
Thank you so much for all your information. I think you are great resource and amazing eye opening content. 😊
Great video. I counsel my clients to not use Retin-A or to only use it sparingly if they can't let go. The clients who were deep in to Retin-A use had thin, inflamed skin. After weaning them off and transitioning them over to products that support healthy cellular metabolism their skin is healthier and thicker! There is a 'breaking up' period that they have to work through, but it's always been worth it. Retin-A is indiscriminate and will cause all cells to prematurely desquamate. Many of these cells are still communicating with our immune system causing unnecessary, long term inflammation.
Hola tengo 70 años y sí tengo arrugas pero no tantas, mi piel se ve fresca y lozana, he usado su producto durante un año con magníficos resultados. Otro beneficio es que me llega el producto hasta el nacimiento del cabello y me han crecido muchos cabellitos nuevos, es grandioso
Tough one to drop!! I’ve been using retina a since late 20’s now 50 and look 40 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Same here, and I have zero intention of stopping Tretinoin, quite the opposite.
I don't use tretinoin myself because here in Europe it's almost impossible to get a prescription for it unless you have problem skin like acne, but it is not given for anti aging purposes.
However i do know women who use it mainly from the US and i have to say their skin looks healthy, smooth and has way less sagging 🤷♀️
I guess you’ll never know what’s giving you your great results, could be as simple as diligent use of sunscreen.
I’m 65, never used Retin A, never had injectables & people think I’m in my late 40s!
I’ve used tretinoin for 15 years, I always get compliments on my skin, I look 10 years younger and I haven’t had a pimple in 2 years. I’ll continue to use it as long as I can.
Placebo effect is real
Hello, I would be interested to know what do you think about creams with glyolic acid, with quite high concentration 7-10-25%, as it has more or less the same principle of action as retinol, retinaldehyde, retin-A, meaning exfoliation, increaing cell turnover. Thank you
Apparently it's not the same process. Glycolic acid physically dissolves the top layer of your skin. Retinoic acid works by sending a signal that forces your stem cells to become terminally differentiated faster.
@@stefaniyak6249 so is it ok to use high concentration glycolic acid creams?
Speaking of vitamin A deficiency - nearly no one in western countries is vitamin A deficient. Widespread vitamin fortification, as well as the natural composition of Western diet, make that nearly impossible. In fact, old people are generally found to have borderline toxic levels of retinols in their tissues while being deficient in everything else.
Thank you for this. We will follow up on this topic.
Tired of this whole thing. We hear something is great. We then hear it's bad. Does anyone know anything or is it we have a world of confused providers and scientists?
Yes it's tiring to hear "debate" that's not really debate, just people talking above each other. Here we can have real debate because our goal is to get at the truth and not commercial self-promotion. Please stick with us.
I completely disagree with Ivan on this one. Yes, a couple of studies have theorized some of the concepts he is explaining here, but these theories have not yet been fully and conclusively proven.
What we do have from 50 years of tretinoin use is "THE PUDDING"🍧🍧🍧
As in "The proof is in the pudding", and there is tons of sweet, creamy pudding to show, as incontrovertible proof, that tretinoin and other retinoids have the extraordinary ability to keep skin acting and looking YOUNG.
I'll start with this tasty treat:
ruclips.net/video/6j7eJJVYhko/видео.htmlsi=EJ1_UyRLDAeP2p7Z
Melissa is 65 in this video, she's currently 68 and looks just as luminous and radiant🌟 now as she does in this video. It's almost as if she hasn't aged AT ALL. How many women of 68 do you know that look like this ? (And my God, look at that jawline!)
I'm only a couple of years younger than Melissa, and After 20+ years of consistent tretinoin use my skin is practically lineless, with no nasal labial lines, and zero sagging or laxity. How many individuals over sixty can say that about their own faces ??
Melissa has had no plastic surgery, or has ever used any Botox/fillers. What she has done is religiously used tretinoin for more than 30 years. Notice the luminosity that emanates from her plump skin, and that's with ZERO MOISTURIZER ! Melissa like myself is completely against moisturizer use. As keeping skin continuously "moist" in my opinion weakens the skin.
Melissa, me and countless others, are the actual unassailable proof, of the MIRACLE that can be achieved with prolonged, consistent use of prescription retinoids. We are the actual "Proof in the pudding".
I can go read the papers that Ivan is pointing out here, and I have, all of them, but then I only have to look in the mirror, Or look at Melissa's gorgeous, GORGEOUS, radiant face, and all of these hypothetical theories go right out the window. Because it is just simply UNDENIABLE what Retin-A has done for our faces and the quality of our skin.
I swear by Tretinoin. I'm 48, but look early 30s. Tret is my holy grail.
Melissa, hot and flashy and everyone else all had Botox at the very least. Jennifer Myers is the only one worth using as a brag, but she is Asian+healthy, therefore would've looked this way regardless.
And for every tretinoin pudding, there is a shriveled tretinoin prune. Especially among those who start too young.
@@stefaniyak6249
I beg to differ, in my opinion the only one reason not to be on a retinoid after the age of 30 is because your skin simply does not tolerate them, meaning, you're experiencing an overwhelming inflammatory response.
Otherwise, EVERYONE could benefit from consistent retinoid use after a certain age. If you have a friend that looks like a shriveled mess from "tretinoin use". Believe you me, it's not the tretinoin.
@@billie5057
Everything looks good, the only suggestions that l think could possibly be helpful are :
1. Make sure that this peptide cream you're using has the proper percentage of peptides in it. Most of the time peptides are included in skincare simply as "window dressing" and not in proper amounts to make a difference, also, consider switching that peptide cream for a peptide serum instead, peptides are large molecules, and we want to give them all the chance they can get to penetrate the skin, serums are superior vehicles for this. Try the purple bottle from these guys :
ruclips.net/user/shortsPmfxorqAwH0?si=JOdqIqydIN3-O2md.
This is an EXCELLENT, reasonably priced peptide product, and in the proper concentration to actually make a difference, it is also VERY emollient, so you can probably ditch the cream.
2. Another thing I would suggest is to get a couple of low level TCA peels a year, like 15%. if you're inexperienced at this, I suggest you go to an esthetics salon.
Needless to say, after those peels sunscreen is a must.
We will never really know why Melissa etc….look so beautiful!
I’m 65 & most people think I’m in my late 40’s…..my protocol
Diligent use of sunscreen
No Retin A
No injectables
No cosmetic procedures
Don’t believe everything you see on RUclips, injectables & a myriad of cosmetic treatments & surgery are very likely to have given these RUclipsrs their beautiful results 😊
Could you do a video on the effect fatty acid composition has on skin appearance? I’ve seen conflicting studies show PUFAs are better for skin aging and others showing they’re detrimental. PUFAs are fundamentally unstable and require antioxidants to stabilize.
Yes!
@@aeducator1 Thanks!
What is a healthier alternative to Retinoids/tretinoin for reducing fine lines?
Ok i really wanna know more about retinols (not retinA). It probably doesn’t lead facial fat loss, but does it harm by thinning the skin? Does it provide benefits at all?
Is the same true of other acids (e,g,. glycolic)?
Vitamin A is not an acid, but I would love to know Ivan’s thoughts on AHAs too, especially the possibility of improving fibroblasts 😊
I am really amazed about how much dermatologists don’t seem to know or want to tell patients.
You would be even more amazed to know for how much this sir sells his own products.
Always be skeptical oof individuals that claim or have the truth that no one else in the world has
a woman with a yt channel ie Jennifer Myers claims she has been on tretinoin for some 20 years and she has great results. how do you explain it? is adapalene the same?
This woman is no doubt marketing her appearance and regimen. Take this with a grain of salt.
@@aeducator1she is a real person who has been consistently using it from what I observe. I just posted a separate link for u to take a look
I think most of the dermatologist s are so busy that they are just following the old info if we took this info to them maybe they will start looking at the truth.
Hopefully 😊
Yes, too busy. Do busy doing. Not enough time for contemplation
How can a dermatologist of 20 or more years not have noticed the simple fact that his patients who have been on tretinoin for sometimes 30+ years look considerably YOUNGER than his patients of the same age who never used it.
Most dermatologist aren't mumbling idiots, they have witnessed with their very own eyes the extraordinary difference that long term prescription retinoid use can make.
Nobody's trying to pull your leg, or run away with your money. Competent, experienced physicians see these undisputable results every day in their practices, these clinicians aren't making up stories to try and fool you.
@@moonhaze8332 I am not a jaded person. I believe in my fellow man and woman until I am given reason not to believe in them. Please ask your derm to read the Bhawan paper. Ask them if it is not deceitful to ignore the 77 percent reduction in papillary dermal structure. And if they mumble “small study” ask them to review the much larger Olsen paper which showed dose dependent reductions in both epidermal and dermal structure. Then ask them to produce any countervailing evidence if equal weight. You will find that they change the subject.
I’m curious what your thoughts are on topical vitamin C without HA .
It’s good if you have a vitamin c deficiency.
Been using tretinion for years. I swear by it. I am aging slower than all my classmates from 20 years ago.
Your experience is valid. Ty for sharing ❤
Could be from many other factors. There are people who dont use it and look younger than their age.
@@bayleymacintosh5622 true, it is a combination of factors but also my skin hasn’t thinned and it hasn’t for many people.
I think the main error in thinking is that everyone will have the same side effects from a medication, and that’s not true. Some will and some won’t.
@@bayleymacintosh5622 that’s true, it is certainly a combination of factors, but also my skin hasn’t thinned and I haven’t aged faster.
I think the main error in thinking here is that everyone experiences the same side effects from medications, and that’s just not true.
This doctor was talking about thinning skin after 6mths. I’ve been using it for 20 years. If I was part of a clinic trial, my response to the medication would not align with his hypothesis.
So the moral here is, if you have a side effect, see your prescribing doctor. If you don’t and the medication is working, continue using it.
I saw benefits from retin-a and it thinned my skin (decades of use) so I stopped using it. Will the skin thickness ever return?
What benefits did you see and when did you notice the thinning?
Yes, the thickness should return but we don’t have data yet on how long it takes.
@@ST-111 It definitely helped prevent acne scarring (hyperpigmentation due to acne) for me because I had cystic acne and never had any pitting or scarring from it the whole time I was using the retin-a! And now that I’ve stopped, almost every time I get a pimple it leaves a dark spot on my skin. I was one of the unfortunate women that had devastating fat loss after getting rf-microneedling only one time by a trained, long-time experienced NP who said she’d never seen anything like that happen (she was also horrified). After the fact, I learned about skin-thinning after long term use of retin-a (about 25 years of use for me at the time) and I think that’s what made me so prone to the massive fat loss. None of my dermatologists over the years warned me about long-term use. In fact, I was told I had to keep using it. Though it seems they probably were also ignorant of the risks.
@@ST-111Sorry, I replied to this but then it didn’t go through!
I was using retin-a from my late teens into my early 40s for acne. I never had any scarring or hyperpigmentation despite cystic acne. But since I’ve stopped using it almost every acne cyst I get leaves at least a dark spot behind (because hormonal acne is still somehow a thing even in my mid-40s 😞).
I didn’t know about skin thinning (and apparently none of my dermatologists did either that were writing me prescriptions all those years). When I had just one session of rf-microneedling (with a trained, decade-long experienced nurse) after all those years of retin-a use, I experienced devastating fat loss that she and I were both horrified by. Now I’m realizing it was probably due to skin that had been thinned by decades of retina-a use.
Thanks so much for this information….very informative!
Glad it was helpful!
I used tretanoin for about 4 weeks. Prescribed by a Dermatologist, although it wasn't a product I had asked for. Tretanoin destroyed my skin. Dark spots, pit marks, an absolute horror. I'm trying to self heal with organic castor oil. Stay away from it.
Unfortunately many dermatologists don't provide recommendations along with it's prescription. Based on that reaction, you probably used too much too fast, and if you weren't using sunscreen, even worse
ivan keep preaching!!!
What about Adapalene? My dermatologist prescribed me Adapalene to improve the appearance of pores but I have read it has the same effects than Retin-A.
Yes, very similar to tretinoin
Doctor I have a question in this case Bakuchiol has similar effect than retinol ??? , we can loss fat face using those products ??
I would also avoid bakuchiol. But I am not a doctor. Just a regular person with some science knowledge
thank you for reply :)
I always use a peptide serum with Hyaluronic acid. Is this also damaging for my skin?
It’s making the skin more porous which is not good in the long run
I am a 25-year-old female and Korean. I heard that retinol is good for pigmentation, so I applied it on the eyelids and middle of the eyes with small scars. My eyelid skin returned a little from February 8th due to severe inflammation, but after the inflammation due to reduced fat, dry eyes and pigmentation are severe. I ordered safflower seed oil separately because I heard it was good in Ivan's product, but I'm considering adipo because I don't know if it will work. (It's a bit expensive..) But when I searched for other functional cosmetics, I read a paper that adenosine is also good for fibroblasts and lipogenesis when I was in the 1st grade of ewg. I wonder if this works, have you ever noticed adenosine? It's so shocking and sad..
hi, thank you for sharing your experience. Since you are young and only used retinol for a short period of time you should be able to completely recover from the damage even if you don’t do anything. If you would like to try Adipeau, please email help@adipeau.com and we can arrange for you to try it.
But adenosine is not good. Inhibits lipolysis.
@@aeducator1 Okay, I just sent an email to this account, can you check it? Does it mean that you will provide the product for free?
What is your opinion of the “retin-a alternative” bakuchiol oil?
I am preparing a video on bakuchiol. I am not convinced that it works
@@aeducator1 oh! Looking forward to it!
Really interesting. It makes sense. I will highlight this point so people can see it
What about a person who struggles with acne? The only thing that helps is a bit of tretinoin every other night with loads of sandwiching w/moisturizer and a bit of morning benzoyl peroxide just on my chin where I get cysts. This has been a battle since I was 12 and I'm now 44. And this combo is the only thing that keeps me mostly clear.
Then don’t change your routine, keep doing what works for you as you have been using this routine for decades and it improves your skin. I on the other hand had a really bad reaction to Retin A after 9 months. It thinned my skin and I lost a lot of face fat. The clinical evidence is out there that Retin A helps improve people’s skin and some have been using it since the late 80’s but there is a minority like me who it has been a nightmare for and there is clinical evidence of that too. I believe if you are doing good on Retin A after one or two years then you are pretty safe to continue but if you notice skin thinning and fat lose in your face within the fist year then stop it. I think it is fantastic that you have found products that work for you.
Yes, retin a is effective for acne. I would recommend finding the weakest strength retinol that still works for you
Totally disagree on the thinning of the skin and also that nobody almost is deficient in Vitamin A. Personally I have used Retin-A for a long time and my skin is THICKER now than it was 10 years ago.
The science is pretty straightforward. There is no debate on the fact that on average the skin experiences a thinning effect. Individual results do vary.
@@aeducator1 „Science“ was also telling us for many years that margarine is healthier than butter. Not even mentioning what they told us about covid shots. Science is always science until it gets disproven by newer and more up to date knowledge; the studies and even the interpretation of results are oftentimes at best flawed and at worst manipulated. I prefer to go by my own experience and observations. Maybe for some people it does cause thinning but it cannot be a general occurrence as I know lots of people who used tretinoin for many decades and their skin is wonderful. Just my two cents.
If you are a healthy (no end stage liver disease, no genetic issues) non-underweight adult living in the West and eating anything even slightly resembling Western diet, you cannot be deficient in vitamin A. You're more likely to have subclinical toxicity.
You can easily be deficient in vitamin A if you're an impoverished newborn/toddler in the middle of a famine in the global South. GMO rice that contains carotenoids was created for this situation.
I'm using tretinoin 0.1% almost every day for acne and better skin, I also use it under eyes. After watching this video I don't know what to do.
Have you tried micro current for acne? It works at a very low power. Also cold plasma treatment is effective for acne. The tretinoin should really be used as little as possible
Sounds to me like the biggest issue is inflammation.
Great info thank you both great job😊
Our pleasure!
And what about mild forms of retinols and thinning of the skin?
I think he's saying that a mild Retinol is less impactful or damaging to the dermis as a prescription grade Retin A would be if used on a daily, ongoing basis. He does not recommend using a prescription grade Retin A daily, it is too strong and you will observe thinning of the skin over time from overuse.
Please could you do one on BHA salicylic acid
What about taking vitamin A internally like carotenoids?
Carotenoids are rate limited and therefore unlikely to cause toxicity. Preformed retinol isn't safe, and retinoic acid (tretinoin, isotretinoin, etc) is the most unsafe form of vitamin A.
Yes, but like everything make sure the dose is moderate
Could you have shown us the written studies you speak of please? And name the scintists?
Also, I don't want to sound rude but I noticed that there were lots of 'glitches' in this video where sentences were cut off and then resumed, presumably, further on in the donversation. I'm just extremely wary. I don't know who to believe in the skincare industry. No one seems to have our best interests at heart, it's more about making money by playing on our insecurities.
We all need good, solid advice on how best to take care of our skin.
All of the references are available in the episode description. If you have any questions, please do follow up.
There are also a lot of publications on tretinoin, so before blindly believe what people say on RUclips, we can check the literature ourselves.
@@enibullaj3991 yes! All of these videos are intended as a provocation for further inquiry. You can start with the publications cited in the description. You can then search publications that cite these publications. That way you will know if they’ve been superseded by more current research.
@@aeducator1Thank you. I didn't see them but have now found them!
Retinaldahyde?
Converted to retinoic acid. Will do an episode soon
Wow! Awesome info!❤😊
“A scientist that I forgot his name says retin-a affect fat in the skin” !!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Like where is the study ?? List it since you’re so convinced.
If you are not convinced or just want to check this scientist on your own, ask the author of the episode because twitting in this manier suggest that you just want to disegree and you don't care if it is true or not.
Because everything they’re saying is wrong and not backed by actual scientific and clinical studies
@@queenbee7336actually there are scientific papers published that Ivan has presented previously. Check them out on his other videos!
You may need to dive deeper into who, what & how some other Retin A “research” you have read was done.
Blind study?
Who paid for the study?
How long was the study period?
The reference is in the episode description. This is a real scientist. Not a derm pushing a skincare line.
Maybe to each their own? People's skins respond differently, according to where you reside on this globe?
Yes, by all means decide for yourself, but do so knowing the facts. Genetics research may find a subgroup of tretinoin users that react positively but for now we only know the average effect is to thin the skin.
Very interesting!
0:39 "going crazy is the scientific term". Starting to doubt his credentials right off the bat 👌🏻 great start
8:25 Nail on the coffin. The dude doesn't prove any of his arguments, doesn't state actual studies, and now considers a proof that chat gpt agreed with him? 💀 Is he at all trying to sound credible
@@auricia201 the papers may not be available to you but you can see the excerpts and the citations in this medium post. medium.com/@aivangalanin/how-retin-a-gaslighting-dumbs-down-skincare-and-encourages-bullying-6cde5b65167b
@@aeducator1 I appreciate the reply, but please provide the DOI of all the studies used (I assume there will be several, to justify the amount of assertiveness), that way we'll be able to analyse the whole context and evaluate the validity. Scientific fallacies are very easy to make
@@auricia201 I'm genuinely excited to have someone kick these tires. So thank you. The sources listed in the medium post are:
Woodley DT, Zelickson AS, Briggaman RA, Hamilton TA, Weiss JS, Ellis CN, Voorhees JJ. Treatment of photoaged skin with topical tretinoin increases epidermal-dermal anchoring fibrils. A preliminary report. JAMA. 1990 Jun 13;263(22):3057-9. PMID: 2342217.
Griffiths CEM, Russman AN, Mjmudar G, et al. Restoration of collagen formation photodamaged human skin by tretinoin (retinoic acid). N Engl J Med 1993; 329: 530-5.
Olsen E et al, Tretinoin emollient cream for photodamaged skin: Results of 48-week, multicenter, double-blind studies, J Am Acad Dermatol 1997; 37:217-26.
Kang S et al, “Long-Term Efficacy and Safety of Tretinoin Emollient Cream 0.05% in the Treatment of Photodamaged Facial Skin”, Am J Clin Dermatol 2005; 6 (4): 245-253
Bhawan J, Histologic Evaluation of the Long Term Effects of Tretinoin on Photodamaged Skin, Journal of Dermatological Science 11 (1996); 177-182.
Cho S, Lowe L, Hamilton TA, Fisher GJ, Voorhees JJ, Kang S. Long-term treatment of photoaged human skin with topical retinoic acid improves epidermal cell atypia and thickens the collagen band in papillary dermis. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2005 Nov;53(5):769-74. doi: 10.1016/j.jaad.2005.06.052. PMID: 16243124.
Yamamoto O, Bhawan J, Solares G, Tsay AW, Gilchrest BA. Ultrastructural effects of topical tretinoin on dermo-epidermal junction and papillary dermis in photodamaged skin. A controlled study. Exp Dermatol. 1995 Jun;4(3):146-54. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0625.1995.tb00238.x. PMID: 7551562.
Oikarinen H, Oikarinen AI, Tan EM, Abergel RP, Meeker CA, Chu ML, Prockop DJ, Uitto J. Modulation of procollagen gene expression by retinoids. Inhibition of collagen production by retinoic acid accompanied by reduced type I procollagen messenger ribonucleic acid levels in human skin fibroblast cultures. J Clin Invest. 1985 May;75(5):1545-53. doi: 10.1172/JCI111859. PMID: 2987306; PMCID: PMC425494.
@@aeducator1 Don't be too excited. I'm not going to buy your cream, I think you are misleading people claiming you are a scientist, I've seen you cherry pick scientific studies to further your cause, your discourse is that of the typical charlatan, full of storytelling and sciency terms without actual explanations and proofs. And the article you wrote after Dr. Drays video response follows the same discourse, plus, trying to present yourself as a victim. It's very sad.
I don't think common people should be going around reading scientific studies, because there is too much knowledge involved, we can easily misinterpret a value or a sentence, since we don't understand all the work behind. And I include you in those people, since a general "masters in science" in a Business school does Not give you the knowledge and critical thinking necessary. I'll still take a peek at those, keeping in mind they were cherry picked by you, and that there is another massive amount of studies that will actually prove Tretinoin works.
Also, I know scientific studies sometimes get negative results, and I know some "scientist" are not honest presenting those results. Finding a shady paper won't make me doubt the whole scientific community, and trust a business man instead 🤷🏻♀️