The Future Of Energy Storage Beyond Lithium Ion
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2024
- Over the past decade, prices for solar panels and wind farms have reached all-time lows. However, the price for lithium ion batteries, the leading energy storage technology, has remained too high. So researchers are exploring other alternatives, including flow batteries, thermal batteries, and gravity-based systems.
CORRECTION (March 14, 2020): At 12:53 we incorrectly identify the size of the energy storage market. Overall, the energy storage market is predicted to attract $620 billion dollars in investments by 2040.
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The Future Of Energy Storage Beyond Lithium Ion
12:50 “Overall the energy storage market is predicted to attract over $620 million in investments by 2040”. Seriously? That’s an extremely low forecast. Could have been a mistake and they meant billions though.
Edit: CNBC has commented below and clarified it was an error and they meant billions not millions. Good on them for doing that.
My thoughts exactly. Would almost make sense if they said billion instead of million.
Never ever be able to replace fossil fuels. Not enough power!! Never ever will there be enough power other than fossil fuels!!!! No matter how you manipulate the words!!!
Hammer Ology your perspective is based on technologies available today and not what’s going to be available tomorrow. Your comment is very short-sighted. I’m glad you’re not a person of influence.
Joshua T I didn’t even state my perspective. Triggered much??
Joshua T you should try drinking some of your own koolaid, as your comment was far more ‘smug’ & aggressive than mine. Thanks for your 2 cents tho. When I feel I need a life coach, I’ll be sure to reach out.
Hear me out:
Giant cranes moving around blocks of thermally insulated solid state batteries all covered in solar cells
It’s so meta it has to work!
Omg...you have to float this idea around silicon valley. Someone is going to give you billions.
i had the same idea
This video discusses, energy storage, not energy production, you are confusing these two as 1.
Problem would be, that the sun isnt shining in all directions at the same time, so you would loose at least half of the energy you could potentialy produce using normal solar panels that trace the sun.
One aspect not mentioned here is integration of the grid over long distances. Even if the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow here, there are other places where they will. If you can distribute electricity over long distances, that also dampens the peaks and troughs, reducing the need for storage. This process is already ongoing in Europe.
Yeah and what about when it's dark, and the wind is only blowing a little bit in a few countries, but all of Europe needs a lot of energy? Where do you get your baseload energy?
@@richardnixon7248 I understand that several countries are working on large-scale storage solutions that can be used seasonally.
It would also make sense to do studies on energy reliability for different sized electrical grids and I bet that's already ongoing.
And note that existing fossil energy solutions have their problems too. Just think of the European natural gas situation right now. We will never have a perfect system, what you need to do is compare future options against the existing situation.
In my wildest dream, I've picture what you said into a huge solar/wind system expanding the whole Euroasia continent from Qingdao to Lisbon. It (only) covers 10-hour timezone, maybe not perfect but would be the longest possible. I guess that would need huge international corporation.
Transmission is extremely expensive and wipes out the benefit of cheap wind and solar when the wind blows and the sun shines.
@@jasonstevenson110 I'm rather surprised that you say that, since here in Europe, we have an international grid already, so I don't really see where the actual costs would come from. I assume that the US already has a national grid as well.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ruclips.net/user/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
This is the kind of news that I think we need more of. Rather than telling everyone we're doomed, this inspires people and gives them hope.
I agree
Exactly. All we hear usually is “the worlds gonna end and we need to do something” but here there’s actually some solutions being put forth.
Whats really dooming is politicians doing nothing about it and businesses disregarding the environment.
Rightly said.
We're doomed!!! Sorry! Usually science sites have a better viewer. Nobody abuses me for having a contradictory opinion... thanks people.
Hey, I and my bald spot are in this video starting at 6:04. Maybe link to the video you used from The Good Stuff in the description, CNBC?
Hey I thought that was you was expecting you to come In at some point but nope they just used your vid lol
Yooooo
Make a claim?
You’re also walking towards the cam later on.. ooof.
I'm surprised I didn't see any credits. Are they technically allowed to use your short clips like this without credit? I do see a lot of RUclipsrs using other RUclipsrs content.
Alternate chemistries really should be used for static applications. This would have a number of valuable side effects. 1) The materials used in these alternate batteries are often common and cheap. They include ZnBr, SbCa, Fe, V and the up and coming Na batteries, 2) Most of the alternative batteries have much longer lives than Li batteries. Their only disadvantage, I can see, is that they don't have quite the cycle efficiency of Li batteries. 3) Using alternative chemistries for static applications would decrease the demand for Li and bring the cost of Li batteries down and hence the cost of EVs, thus making EVs available to a wider range of people. 4) Using other chemistries would bring the price of these non-Li batteries down below the price of Li batteries. They use common cheap elements and all they need is production volume to achieve very low costs. 5) Most of these batteries based on elements other than Li can be cycled from 0% to 100% charge without damage and hence all the energy stored in the battery is available to you, unlike Li batteries. 6) most of the alternatives are safer in terms of fire. They can be shipped, even by plane and certainly by ship in containers with no risk. Most of them can be safely used in a house (basement for instance) or in a factory. With Li batteries, it is wise to use have them outside, just in case. Extra land does not always exist for a battery unit.
About 10 years ago I was basing my university level student projects on the development of a FESS for use in the third world. My brief was that it must require minimal maintenance, it must have high energy density, it should be used for decades - even centuries with no loss of storage capacity or efficiency and it must be totally sustainable, require abundant and cheap materials and totally un-toxic to the planet - a challenging brief which only the FESS designs (or mechanical gravity based) designs come anywhere close to fulfilling.
Over several years of development, we decided that it was much better to go for low angular velocity (
Hello Richard. I did not find you, but could you if your offer still stands write me on Linkedin :) ? I am writing a thesis and would like to have a look
@@pascaltimmann2682 - OK - I've sent you a LinkedIn connect invite.
Pumped hydro is one of the most efficient for long-term storage. Usually 80-90% efficiency. But the environmental toll can be large, if we can find good spaces for them (like mountains with low populations) this could be big for this tech.
There's a reason why none of these alternative storage technologies have managed to displace lithium-ion battery: they all have some sort of tradeoff. In this video, flow batteries are said to be "Cost-competitive" with lithium-ion. In other words, they cost the same over the long term. If their lifespan is longer than lithium-ion, then that means a much higher up-front cost. But look at their density: ESS needs a whole shipping container just to store 400 kWh, many times more space than is required by lithium-ion solutions. In other words, it costs the same, but is worse.
In order for alternative power storage to succeed, it is not enough to merely be as good, or as cheap. It must either be better, or cheaper, or both. None of the alternatives in this video have demonstrated that so far.
TBH everyone is waiting till Tesla Battery day.
The iron salt water battery seemed worth it for recycling and repurposing.
We need nuclear power
@Jeff Holland jeff lol how does it feel to be alive in the early 1900's?
Jeff, you're absolutely right because there is too much money to be made and no viable alternatives
Flow battery 4:14
Iron flow batteries 6:10
Pumped hydro 8:17
Gravity batteries 9:02
Thermal Storage 10:26
Thermo Photovoltaic Cell 11:09
Compressed air 11:58
Cryogenic Storage 12:04
I have also heard of molten salt as an option.
I love the idea of two lakes at an incline to each other.
Solar can be used to pump water uphill.
Also, rain water can be harvested to fill the ponds.
I'm also pumped about that concept. Needs land area though.
What we can do i use a celling fan to make wind and then blow wind mill from that wind
@@prateeksharma6706 right
pump hydro is great, but excessive rainwater may cost problems.
@@ericshen5374 The excess rainwater would just flow away like it normally would. That is how dams work.
Always important to keep in mind lifecycle and raw material requirement. How long do solar panels last before degradation? How much steel has to be smelted to create a windmill? How much concrete has to be poured to create the base? Look at the NET product, not just at the end. Likewise, I hope the energy storage methods are environmentally friendly and low resource production cost.
For me which I have
Wind
Water
Solar power , it off grid and I just don’t want company interference government interference.
I have propane generator back up as well
I’m free not doomed to the will of someone else .
Going green is crazy we just swap what we want to destroy.
Everyone just pics what poison they want .
Everyone just needs there own power not governments
So do pipelines. So do nuclear power plants etc. The iron salt water one in a transport truck is a very easy scale. Water related storage through lakes has always provided beauty even with large scale. Providing safe & renewal storage is important but we need to keep understanding its about improving on other systems, spills, fires, cost etc.
Solar panels are typically guaranteed at about 80-90% efficiency after 20 years. Recycling is possible but the industry for it is still developing as far as I know.
Congratulations on this major achievement in the delivery of green energy!
Thank you for being part of this project.
Mega Solar Power Plant - Benban Aswan Egypt .
Videos like these give a good insight in technologies that one might not yet heard of.
@just another human But how is energy free? Wind is free, sun is free but the conversion to electricity costs money.
@just another human Are you sure that won't upset the balance in the universe?
@just another human "no"? - How do you know? Let's atleast admit that we don't have a clue about how "hidden energy fields" work. As for now every single energy source humans have used have lead to environmental problems.
I however believe in new reactors using nuclear waste as a primary energy source, in order to get rid of as much long lived waste as possible. In the longer run fusion mught be the best solution. It's better, but not totally "clean".
To build machines that could harvest the energy from hidden energy fields might cost alot of money. In comparison; if nuclear fuel was free, it would only lower the cost of nuclear power with 10% or so.
Giant hamsters in giant hamster wheels -- now *THAT*'s the future of renewable energy. I'm surprised they missed that one :-)
I know most people might think you're and idiot and probably joking but I honestly think you are a genius the hard part is convincing people to try it out
That wouldn't be very good, because you would have to feed the hamsters. And Giant hamsters, require a lot of food XD
I like it, but change the hamster's into human, that make money for doing it.
Great idea! However, the radioactivity of those mutants is harmful to humans. You have to keep them underground...
These giant hamsters already exist in the form of gym junkies who run or cycle miles on treadmills and exercise bikes
Any legitimate analysis would include the ultimate costs of dealing with the toxic battery components once they lose production capacity and are tossed.
This is not anything like analysis, they just listed random projects, and the part they shown is only a small part of larger problem, there are solutions to ups and downs in production in getting a source of energy which can be started anytime - like water dams, or gas power plants. This source then complements for the weaknesses of solar or wind, much cheaper than anything else.
Butt tossing stuff is free. Wouldn't that just be a replacement/recycling cost.
@@rollerskdude If you toss away lithium battery we run out of it. Lithium is not easy to extract sinc eit is quite soluble in any form, once it gets disolved in seawater it is lost to us forever.
When this is scaled up and enough waste volume is being produced it becomes economically very viable to recyle the materials to build new things instead of mining.
@@Pyrochemik007 Nope. Any claims that we are short on lithium are false or a sign that a person doesn't know what they are talking about. We can in fact extract it easily from seawater too, all that takes is energy, and if we don't have enough batteries for storage, then we obviously have lots of free solar and wind power just asking to be used.
The most difficult task for energy storage technology is to overcome the influence on bureaucrats of the vested interests in existing electrical energy utilities. Even if an energy storage solution is better for the consumer, powerful lobbies to maintain the status quo will be hard to overcome.
This is what I love about the United States of America! A country that takes the lead in innovative research. I hope this technology becomes cheaper in near future. It will indeed free my country from the incessant power failures and poor energy infrastructure.
Thank you America. More power to the scientist.
Good
More so every western nation has its ideas and companies and an American media house promotes and American company
Pumped hydro is still the name of the game. In my country (Bulgaria) there is one of these systems (which BTW might be the largest in Eastern Europe), consisting of numerous facilities having a total installed capacity of 864 MW. This pumped storage hydro power system can partially ballance the only Bulgarian nuclear power plant which has 2 units with a total capacity of over 2000 MW... In Wikipedia there is an article about it called "Chaira Hydro Power Plant".
the few net contributing countries in the EU are in a lot of debt to pay for all these projects which, so far, are leaving the EU broke and lost without Russian gas.
Imagine Energy Vault stacking ESS Shipping Container batteries. Long and short term energy storage at the same time :)
Yep such hybrid ideas sound really cool
If electrons move through graphene like massless particles, this implies no energy loss through heat and the potential for a VERY long storage. Obviously, the most efficient battery conceivable would have this property. By twisting a long sheet of graphene densely into a cylinder-shape and isolating the edges well, you'd pretty much have the perfect battery, made out of pure carbon.
It's just a matter of how long it takes to come up with a cost efficient graphene technology.
bill nye the science guy discovered that the electrons dobt move at all, just a controlled magnetic current we named Eddie Current. remember magnetisim can bend light.... and it dossnt believe 100% in gravity either... science
These CNBC video essays are a wealth of knowledge. I love these.
WSJ also has a lot of these type of mini docs.
this is amazing. I would love to learn more about these systems. I wish i had a place where i could look into stuff like this and maybe experiment with it. Maybe i could find something to help push things along.
It's all physics, chemistry, and engineering. You can read about the Department of Energy (DOE)'s Energy Storage Grand Challenge, which is funding energy storage research and development, then apply to work at the companies involved.
The crane energy looks like a disaster waiting to happen......
The crane energy storage solution has been debunked multiple times. The math just doesn't add up. That's why it's only an animation, and not a real product.
I liked it. It is less dangerous than a high rise, since it isn't hollow.
My only problem is why? We only have 2% green energy. They keep pretending we have all this energy to store. Harnessing energy still isn't that easy.
Considering that cranes cannot operate in heavy winds, it's pretty dull to depend on energy storage that cannot operate in heavy winds other than to complement wind farms...
@@c31979839 Can you link your sources please?
Good point. Unless you are talking a solar farm in an arid area.
I would use an enclosed structure and blocks within. Water would be a possible hazard if container broke.
On top of the container could be the solar or wind to power the internal crane.
Keep updating this information as new technologies become available. Don't stop!
I really like the idea of compressed air and compressed air to liquid storege in the process of liquefying air you can squeeze out the CO2 or scrub out the CO2 in that process. There is the potential to have duelality of power storege and global CO2 sequestration.
It simplifies many of the other chemical processes involved with the actual. Bonding of CO2 with the higher concentrations of CO2.
im a bigger fan of molten salt!
@@Queen-dl5ju for a higher temperatures applications yes I agree. But there is really very simple designs involved with liquid air. But as I had pointed out. Duel purpose applications with the liquid air. Molten salt on its own for power storage Hmm 🤔 I would have to have a closer look at the efficiencies.
This gravity storage method has been BUSTED by 'Voice of Thunder'
Just looking for this comment...
@@Delfontes Mee toooo... T Maaaannnnn .... We love dat guy
I cant find it, can i get a link please?
Thunderfoot
@@generalsteam1120 ruclips.net/video/NIhCuzxNvv0/видео.html
5:00 It would be 5kWh to measure capacity, that's the instant power delivery
Supper, mind-blowing. What a energy is eden in small knowledge.
“Hydrogen Storage”
The video was beautifully made and informative.
The only thing is that you forgot the hydrogen generation and storage as one of the biggest changes that will probably happen.
Amin R, things have changed in hydrogen storage and high pressure (15000 psi)carbon fiber tanks are now able to be replaced with low pressure tanks more in line with scuba tanks for the same mass in hydrogen. Stay tuned and be watching the progress in energy storage using hydrogen
Another thing missed, is flywheel inertial energy storage. Hydrogen energy storage isn't nearly as efficient as batteries are, or flywheels are likely to be. I don't dismiss it, I'm sure the efficiency will improve. The fact is, no ONE technology could do it alone. We need so much energy storage, that we will need all forms of energy storage. Nothing's off the table!
@@vincentrobinette1507 yeah batteries efficient but short storage duration, hydrogen not so efficient but long duration. Whats your pick?
"We have to figure out a way to store energy..." We did. 100 years ago. It's called hydro-electric. Store vast quantities of water at a high elevation and run it through turbines. Batteries as a grid-level storage solution is thought of by cell-phone and hybrid car users who have no idea the magnitude of energy storage required.
Wind and solar rich Alberta could beef up their electrical corridors with hydro rich BC for mutual benefit and success. All hydro dam regions could do this same strategy.
5:26
4:07 I thought she would say graphene battery, lol.
Graphene would never make it in terms of cost
@@vicyelt7551 flash graphene is gonna change that
Good luck Fossil fuel replacement is huge to replace and the infrastructure too ! You need to directly store and collect energy at the quantum level!
@Cecelia Hops wrong scale ,oh yeh definitely not the a genius though!
Man, those lego-tower batteries building and unbuilding themselves seems incredibly silly, but is actually genius.
I want to see if there's a way to get smart parking garages that work like this. If you park at a peak production hour, a crane raises the car up to the top floor, then when you need it back, the crane lowers it to produce energy.
I doubt this is more practical than the current brick strategy, but it's fun to imagine.
Power Wauh´er - I am with You on this! Man, man! - we don´t need to crawl any much longer! HYPE!
Energy Vault wonder how wind would affect the placement of the blocks cos it would end up being jenga in a storm
13:40 - 20%, peak demand means power (W), storage is energy (Wh). This doesn't make sense.
It does to comic book super crooks.
Many people talked about the demise of the lead acid battery for a long time. But it never went away. We will use li-ion batteries for a long time yet.
In fairness, they are talking utility scenarios, something that Li-ion doesn't really do. For small scall energy dense applications Li-ion is still better. Its more about cost at large scale compared to other mor bulky alternatives.
Another major technology would be inertial energy storage. (Flywheel). The technologies most likely to be adopted, will be the ones with the highest round trip efficiency, and lowest levelized cost per kWh of energy storage. (the cost of the system + maintenance/kWh stored and expended over its service life) Of all of them, batteries and flywheels can respond the quickest, to sudden changes in supply or demand.
"The sea was angry that day my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli."
I don't get it
@@ab3040 it's a Seinfeld reference I think
@@severusrogue259 oh. That's why.
I looked into the the eye of the great fish
@@jbw6823
"Mammal"
"Whatever"
5:00
"Provides 25 kilowatts of power"
I think this is a mistake because this isn't a measurement of capacity. I think you mean 25 kilowatt hours, but that's almost nothing, so I'm not really sure what you meant.
Also as a side note those shipping container sized "Energy Warehouses" are only 400 kilowatt hours each. That's insanely tiny, equivalent to the batteries in 4 electric cars. From a battery the size of a shipping container, I would expect more.
25kW is not nothing, and "providing 25kW of power" is not talking about capacity, but the draw of power.
@@HSFY2012 Dude, he said 25KWh is almost nothing. And it is. That's about the amount of energy a persons eats in 10 days. Hornsdale Power Reserve looks to have 108 power banks, and stores 194MWh. That's almost a Megawatt of power per device. And since we're talking about energy storage devices, it's reasonable for OP to assume they were talking about capacity.
Chemical storage tech is millions of times less energy dense than uranium. Uranium is also already pre-charged by the universe.
What drives these silly battery fantasies is subsidies and the criminalization of nuclear.
Yes. They confuse power (kW) with energy (kWh). This is high school level knowledge to separate the two... I'm disappointed and this gravely affects how I value this video and perhaps also other items by CNBC.
They haven't even bothered to make correction about this in the video description...
I am a little upset that we are focusing on renewable rather than sustainable perpetual mantel or outer core earth's heat energy.. This is by my reasoning, the truly honest answer for limitless green energy...
9:27. That is an ingenious way of storing power, cool.
I still think pump storage is underrated
Conroy Boothe not really
@@HAMID___ "I think" - no
Pump hydro is all but reliable tech, granted. However, it's not as efficient as the stirage that will be needed in 2040 and beyond.
The inefficiency comes from the cost. Its exoensive to build by MWh and expensive to run if you're buying electricity to oumo back up hill, even if you buy excess generation cheaply.
It takes mote energy up to the top reservoir than it generates when water is released towards tha bottom resevoir.
That makes the electricity generated more expensive than other sources.
The only way hydrology generation is efficient and cheap is when you dam a strong running river and release water constantly. The generation virtually runs itself.
A great example of that is URUGUAY. Most if their energy is hydro. One of tge cleanest countries on Earth when it comes to electricity.
Emission per capita in Uruguay are 1.9 tons
Australia and the USA are hovering at ovet 20 tons per person.
It's incredibly inefficient, both at storing AND generating.
@@reelreflections1okay name a energy storage that is 100% efficient
Energy Vault - when will it move past the CGI cartoon phase? Just sayin’.
Thanks for making this video!!
"The future is not a mirror of the past", let's meditate on that for a moment ...
And tell it the conservatives in all countries...
6:53 That’s definitely Wheezy Waiter.
So excited for the future of energy - thanks for this great video!
There is an opportunity to change domestic electrical appliances over to DC, thus avoiding the need to use inverters to create AC power. Then it would be possible to encourage many distributed battery storage systems into people's homes. Lighting refrigerators and consumer electronics can all use this source. Cooking and laundry need grid power, but you can encourage off peak consumption for some of this load. Governments need to regulate to force the change here. If half the new build housing in the U.K. Was built this way around 100,000 more energy flexible homes per annum would start to make a difference.
Also, one could develop a geothermal battery for future electricity production for very large-scale renewable
energy storage.
I think this going to be a real Occam's razor solution that we find on the energy front. The tech is good but expensive to develop and I have questions about its long term utility being dependant on fluctuating markets of material costs. I think the pumped hydro or the energy vault solutions will be the ones that stand out in the long term. Very innovative!
Mmm Occam's razor is a philosophical tool. There's basically nothing philosophical about the analysis of energy solutions.
What about storing it as hydrogen? Small amounts of hydrogen can be stored in pressurized vessels, or solid metal hydrides or nanotubes can store hydrogen with a very high density. Very large amounts of hydrogen can be stored in constructed underground salt caverns of up to 500,000 cubic meters at 2,900 psi, which would mean about 100 GWh of stored electricity electricity.
yap, it will be the future
Alot of energy loss, compared to pumped hydro or batteries. But if we are looking at a future of abundant electricity, Hydrogen isn't a bad idea, because it isn't geography dependent like pumped hydro
If Shell invests in something, you can also be assured that its capacity to displace or replace fossil fuels is basically nil. It's the most basic litmus test for the viability of new energy tech.
Why do you say that? I’m just curious is all
VRFBs are the future IMO. Long life 20 yrs plus, cheaper than Lithium as vanadium can be recycled at end of life and no fire risk. Can charge and discharge many times over and can store energy for many hours making it ideal for the grid. The only limitation was the cost of vanadium due to its volatility, however Bushveld minerals (bmn) listed on AIM have the solution with their leasing model which significantly reduces the upfront cost with lower annual lease cost of the vanadium electrolyte which can be recycled at the end of its 20yr life.
My fear is that we'll rush into solar and wind before the energy storage problem is solved. Tesla building LI batteries in South Australia seems to indicate it doesn't really have a real grasp on the situation.
Probably the most useful video. Whoever figures it out in a mass scale, will be the richest man by far.
Or woman.
@@hello2jello4mellow34 or monkey or lizardman
Who know?
This video is about the successful Tesla Powerpack huge wind farm grid battery. Now they are producing the 3 MWhr megapack grid battery!!! "South Australia's giant Tesla battery confounds critics | ABC News". October 1, 2018. ruclips.net/video/zMJdxX6Lw9Q/видео.html
a b I don’t think it’ll come down to mass scale, rather many people putting in a MWh per month off rooftop solar.
Whoever creates the first commercial smr you mean
I like the idea of Tesla's virtual power plant far more than I do off site storage.
I stumbled on this as I want my Narrow Boat totally off grid. A mate of mine thinks I am crazy to go away from 240 hook up. I have peak 500 watts solar. I can also invest In wind power as my winter mooring is well a bit windy. Plus can also charge off the boat engine alternater. Twelve volt. I am not too sure about LIFO battery yet I understand they don't like the cold. I think this video is brilliant, so many good ideas, but I guess it is back to Beta Max VHS again. Exciting times.
Wake me up when I can buy one under 5k to store enough to go 3 days when there's a power outage
If you could buy one for 5k you would chop your powerlines off at your house so you dont have to pay a connection fee for nothing. If it's legal where you live.
Look at a company called voltstorage. They are selling vrfb batteries for houses
@@julesmoore1170 Yeah, wake me up when they reply to my 'Request an offer' query (I'll try to have some faith, I just posted it now). I'm in the camp of off-grid customer where grid-tie isn't even an option. We need more consumer focused solutions in this space. Industrial solutions only keep alive more of the same culture of a big power company binding people to cloud power, and a monthly bill.
You'll be sleeping forever. The laws of physics aren't changing anytime soon. The only reason these companies exist is to waste tax dollars.
Gonna be sleeping for a century
Cheapest and longest living storage technology is Pumped hydro storage.
Was already nixed quite a few years ago in the state of WA. Refer to the proposed Blackrock Dam project off of the Columbia River.
@@rekky213 No what's funny were still paying the Tax for that .
Maybe few parts and:
1. Water electrolysis
2. Dividing H from O
3. CO2 from air obtaining
4. Methane producing by using Fischer-Tropsch synthesis :D
How about a gravity based energy system based on purified and refined sand. The sand would be sent from the bottom of the tower to the top of the tower through a series of powerful electric shop vacuums. Because of the mass of the sand and the height of the tower, it may take a series of several platforms for the sand to be moved to the top of the tower. Then the sand is allowed to be poured down the tower like it was being poured down a giant hour glass. However, instead of the sand working it's way down an hour glass, it would work it's way down a series of mills or turbines in which the sand would pour over. Instead of water pouring over a water wheel that forces the wheel to spin, here it would be sand pouring over a sand wheel forcing the mill or wheel or turbine to spin, generating electricity. Below the sand wheel is a giant funnel that catches all of the sand and below that is another wheel ready to catch the sand in order to turn this second sand wheel or turbine that will generate electricity. Under this second sand mill or wheel or turbine is another giant funnel that catches the sand and below that another sand wheel or turbine, and so on and so on. There could be up to twenty energy producing turbines until the sand finally reaches the ground. There may be virtually unlimited number of sand turbines, depending on how tall the tower is. This sand producing turbines could be added to already existing skyscrapers, one would just need a portion of the building from top to bottom sectioned off for this energy producing function. The important thing is that the electricity shop vacuums are powerful and efficient. So powerful and efficient that the energy produced far exceeds the energy it takes to get the sand back to the top of the tower. This system could be continually running to continually produce electricity. There would be no need for downtime, unless maintenance needed to be provided to the shop vacuums or to the turbines. This is not a perpetual motion machine, but the law of energy effeciency, where through the efficiency of the device, more energy is produced than is required to run the machine. This is the same as with fusion power that scientists are trying to make practical.
It will be exciting to see 10 years from now when the grid contains all these different types of utility scale battery farms!
Using solar or wind to pump water up hill for a hydro electric system is the most logical & most effective system . But it is essentially a gravity generator. You can lift anything with a motor. Even a heavy weight.
What about the double helix type coiled copper interwined like that of a motor to generate propulsion, can that by its magnetism be utilized in wind turbine or umm a ways to create much kore energy into a storage based battery with elements included ib li ion like graphene, quartz, copper, and a liquid able type base for negative ion and positive ion disposition? When in use of that some type of battery
PV ground bracket +Easy and fast installation without punch holes. Match 980mm-1134mm width solar module.
Very great! So glad to see solar items being worked on
this was educational, enjoyable and entertaining. I'd love to see what kind of loss there is in these kinds of batteries. I mean a lion battery stores as much wats as you put in but I imagine something like energyvaults crane would suffer a lot of loss from friction simmilarly to how hydropumps lose a lot of energy through ineffeciency.
Hydro pumps are one of the most efficient forms of storage. Over 90% efficient.
@@chrisreid8298 yeah but you can't put those everywhere they are geological dependent methods of storage like geothermal heat makes for a great power source and it should definitely be utilized where available, just like water storage where it makes sense. but batteries and energyvault cranes would work equally well wherever you place them.
@@basbekjenl I got 5 small hydro in my rain catching system and I. My pond that has a waterfall .
Where ever I got water movement I got power
Makes me 1000 watts a day
I have a 40,000 kw solar with a mega pack lithium iron phosphate batteries
And I have wind
All with backup generators to power my 3 houses 4 sheds 2 barns .
Off grid is the way
Screw governments and city that lech money off of you and when power goes out your screwed
I really can't fathom why compressed air hasn't found a niche in the energy storage sector. Everything involved with it is low tech (air tanks, compressors, pneumatic motors). If it is all about storage of excess capacity wouldn't it make sense, after the Li batteries are fully charged, to store the energy in air tanks? I don't get it.
Regarding primus power, look at KWH/battery volume. Primus is 125KWh/1.8x2.1x2.2m = 15KWh/m^3, where as powerwall2 is 13.5KWh / 1.15x0.753x0.147m=106KWh/m^3. Homeowner's aren't going to stick such a large thing in their house. It's scale is too large. It must be space efficient. Even for energy farms.
It is really cool to recognize in which kind of future we can live!!!
One where we messed around with ineffective, Rube Goldberg energy production systems for so long that we caused a catastrophic warming event?
@bowblizz Maybe you need to go to church and pray for forgiveness, move into a cave and eat raw uncooked tree bark. While you are at it, throw away your carbon foot print laptop, cell phone and sell your car. You will enjoy washing in the nearby stream running with polluted cold water. At least we will not have to read or hear from you anymore. Do not forget to run around screaming "the sky is falling" as loud as possible.
@@tiredofbs6835 Facts don't care about your feelings, bud.
The tech for the 21st century is "Liquid Air." That's air not wind. Air is free, you can't beat free !!!
Completely agree, could also be used for vehicle propulsion
After thinking a bit longer, imo...All of the above! Location considerations expanded my view. All of the above 'IF' they are seamlessly linked together, yet maintain their individual integrity as a stand-alone company with contracts that provide locally first and foremost, and main grid tied to go out to the mass market. No MONOPOLY money for the uber power companies.
Innovations come from a place of emotional attachment to an idea, and an iron will to get there if the reward has personal value in any form at the end of the challenge.
An inventor that owns the results of failure vs success will endeavor to perfect the innovation, and as rapidly as possible
Innovation, with defects can be 'purchased' but as with many careers, purchased inventors drag out the process 'till just before retirement.
The saying is true to a point.
When the sun stops shining the wind usually keeps blowing 24/7 though .....
I have designed renewable power plants that will put coal and gas on the backburner....😎
The Chinese have just completed a compressed air power plant that is excellent...
When stars are forming, where did they get their collection of material to generate energy?
Over hundreds of millions of years a cloud of hydrogen gas clumps together. Then it also accretes other material in its path.
skierpage so its a kind of fossil energy too.
@@kimie126 to make hydrogen you need water and electricity.
So to make electricity you need clouds of heat and cold.
Then to make heat you must probably have planets to collide with each other.
But to have planets to collide and orbit then you need a sun. To have a sun you need hydrogen that get ignited.
I think the answer lies within the universe it keep on expanding.
@@kimie126 Not really. The materials that formed those hydrogen cloud was "already there" since the big bang. It just too a long time for those hot particles to cool down enough to get bound together into hydrogen atoms.
@@kimie126 no, not at all. Wikipedia is your friend "Fossil fuel is fuel formed by natural processes such as anaerobic decomposition of buried dead organisms to form organic (carbon) molecules". That's different than simple hydrogen atoms which undergo fusion in stars like our Sun to form helium. Carbon and other light atoms do form in red giant stars, and heavier elements are created in supernovas.
Rough summary: The big bang at the start of our universe created subatomic particles, some particles form hydrogen atoms in space, stars form out of the hydrogen, nuclear reactions in stars create heavier atoms, and chemical processes on planets orbiting stars create molecules out of these atoms including fossil fuels.
What about Graphene battery Technology ??? Did the world already forgot about it ??
Yeah everybody's now acting like that wasn't a thing
@@LegendLength hurry the memory is spreading
I have only heard a little about it. Only thing I know for sure is that graphene is still stupidly expensive to produce. Like couple of hundred of dollars for a gram
They're just not nearly as revolutionary as people thought they would be.
@@ideeyes4054 The latest I heard was that they found a burn method to rediculously cheap mass produce graphene from any carbon source, preferably waste material
We also need to focus on creating the power through microgens at point of use.
flow battery is the winner, install some fixed cell. if you want to have a bigger capacity, just add more tank. literally you just need a bigger boat. also they can be discharge from 100-0% without any degradation. they last from 5000-15000 cycle. if the electrolyte is bad just drain from tank and replace with new one easy peasy. also membrane for ion and pump is easily replaceable . unlike Li-ion require to disassemble entire battery
I started to watch this thinking it was a researched program on energy storage, instead it is just a forum for tin-pot companies to advertise and justify their thoughts. Very disappointed. Energy Vault has been shown to be a waste of time, so why is this included? You really should have done your research.
8:11 I see you in there, Python.
Its not so much storing energy it's what state to change it to for storage. The only state I can thing of is light. Light is both able to be a state of data as well both a creation / resource. Assuming you can create a input you that can take both state of pure energy plus use the data as a state of energy I think this could fix the issue. Light also the only thing I can think of that also have the ability to be easily redirected (Be easier to move power from point a to b) This would also reduce the over all cost of implementation.
How would machine vision assist with the gravity-based storage system?
Somebody has erased the word "efficiency" every place it appeared in this video, thus rendering the whole thing meaningless to nonsensical. We learn exactly nothing from the whole thing.
We learn that there are actually still people doing some research to work on solutions - instead of wisecracking in the comment sections of socialmedia..
You left out another important energy storage method, Hydrogen storage method (1mW - 1000mW)
1 milliwatt is not a lot of energy.
@@Oivaras depends on the time over which it is applied.
@@Oivaras Solid Hydrogen could replace gasoline. Could be run as Fuel in electric cars with out having to charge your car up every night.
I’m glad someone smart is working on this , because I have no idea what is going on .
😂😂🤣
This is all well and good, issue is seasonal storage... The US in particular has very cold winters.
There are two choices, either build many terrawatt hours of long term energy storage (basically will have to be huge dams in the Rockies, as far as I can see) or you need to build fossil/nuclear power to act as power source in the winter. If you go nuclear, you might as well not bother with renewables because you have plenty of power generation, if you have back up fossil fuels and all the systems to utilise them, you are going to make power very expensive.
Startup 1- "our gimmicky approach is the best approach".
Startup 2 - "Wrong. Our gimmicky approach is the best approach".
Startup 3 - "NO! Our gimmicky approach is the best approach!".
Ok, then tell us about the non-gimmicky approach that you've invented and are developing.
6:53 The perfect WheezyWaiter impersonator.
I saw that and shat my self
Literally thought the same thing. Someone needs to let him know.
I don't really know anything, all those difficulties make me wonder if clean biofuel (of a EREOI-efficient kind) isn't in a way the simplest "battery" one can have for many situations, specially perhaps if you can have some sort of power plant design that makes it even cleaner. Plus innovations in nuclear power technology. Even though none of those really deal with eventual excess production from wind and solar, those indeed require batteries that can be charged by those, which isn't much the case of biofuel or nuke.
A more basic system is simply to connect the grids of as many countries together as possible. This will even out some of the fact that the sun is not shining in one area. If there is a grid around the world then the sun in Australia can make up for the dark in the UK. That is an exaggeration but you get the idea. Also, it will even out some of the problem of wind farms not producing electricity because there is little wind in a country. It is usually windy somewhere else. Very high voltage DC current reduces the amount of electricity that is lost by transmission drastically. Thankfully a lot of work has already been done in Europe to connect up all the countries. More work is to be done. We could probably do more work going eastwards into Asia. I expect that it would not be practical to connect up Europe with America. However, maybe we can do this by going all the way through Asia eastwards and join Russia with Alaska. Add all this into the mix of the battery technology on this video and a lot can be achieved. You can see this moment by moment on www.gridwatch.co.uk. This shows how much electricity is being used in the UK by all the different types of generators eg gas, biomass, nuclear, solar, wind etc. it also shows the amount of electricity coming from the different counties that we are connected to.
I've never heard of that gravity crane thing before. These are exciting times to live in.
It's a brilliant application of a very old concept. It basically works the same as a classic Grandfather or CooCoo Clock. In those, you provide the energy to lift the chain-weights yourself, and gravity pulling them back down runs the clock. With these, excess solar energy lets the system stack the weights, which are then retrieved and pulled down to provide the stored potential energy back. Fascinating stuff, if it works. The engineer who thought of it should really get an award.
@@michaeldougherty6036 Its a terrible idea. Its been debunked multiple times already ruclips.net/video/NIhCuzxNvv0/видео.html
my same reaction. The gravity crane thing reminded me of playing with erector sets in the 1950's when I was a brazen tike with blond curls.
@@allending8753 Thunderf00t is very shortsighted and lacks vision. The arguments he makes are absolutely myopic.
@@quelorepario How exactly? I find his videos very interesting and informative.
That heat thing probably has less than 1% efficiency.
hmm that may be true.
A heat absorbing PV panel would be focused on a fairly specific bandwidth of light, so perhaps that will allow it to be made more efficient within that range of light.
How efficient would it need to be viable? It would depend on how much the storage solution costs but even 50% efficient could be enough to bring to market.
It is an intriguing idea.
@@thedillestpickle Storing energy by heat is inefficient in nature due to the amount of entropy generated no matter how good your equipment is. The best steam turbine can have efficiency of maybe 50-60%, and they operate on the scale of hundread+MW. Photoelectric panels are notoriously inefficient and generally have efficiencies under 20%.
Amazing!!!! Thank you!!!
Why are you guys not discussing the most obvious, Hydrogen generation?
If you use excess electricity to generate Hydrogen to be used later to generate electricity via fuel cell when the sun is down then there is no capacity limitation like conventional chemical battery technology?
Chemical batteries capacity is limited with the size of the battery that is hooked up and adding additional batteries require more investments. With Hydrogen it only requires an empty storage tank which is much cheaper than adding another battery. Hydrogen can also be transported off the grid which gives viable options when the grid has gone down.
trailer containing so much energy as full gas tank - I smell BS, and that huge crane is on whole another level
A gallon of gasoline stores about 33kWh of thermal energy, which is crummy low-quality energy compared with useful efficient electricity. A Tesla Model S battery stores 3 times as much energy, so a trailer of any of these technologies should be able to match a large gas tank.
... Except the Energy Vault crane, lifting and lowering even tons of stuff takes and gives so little energy that it is highly unlikely to be economical.
Now this is the video I wanted to see
@@LegendLength Nah, maybe it's one of their boys/employees.
renewable energy prices may have reached all time 'lows' but I still don't see it implemented that much where I live. The local county government has installed solar panels, but I know that was done because of huge tax incentives paid for a lot of the cost. Plus it is a fixed building that will be there for a long time. Most people do not live in their homes as long as they used to years ago. And you never get back the investment cost when you resell the home.
Chef's kiss. These technologies are wonderful and should have more money & resources put into their development.
That energy storage brick tower seems to be a maintenance nightmare.
You mean dusting? There are no moving parts.
Jobs are important for a society.
@@weneedcriticalthinking We don't require jobs for the sake of simply working. If this were true then we could always have 0% unemployment by having half of the population digging ditches and the other half putting the dirt back in. We need productive jobs.
@@macioluko9484 A sustainable green economy supplies much more jobs, , less death and money than a fossil fuel war economy.
@@weneedcriticalthinking Agreed.