How To Make EMT "S" Bends and 45° Offset Bends

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  • Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 192

  • @themechanic4222
    @themechanic4222 4 года назад +4

    There’s no need to go to schools 🏫 anymore. People like 👍 you delivered the messages in short periods of times and we saved back and forth. I don’t need certificates 😂 just to know what I’m doing on the job site and ask for raise for not wasting companies materials . Thank you 🙏 very much

  • @christianwatson2898
    @christianwatson2898 Год назад +2

    Love working with older guys they really know their stuff..not just about electrical...been in the trade 24 years..still learning

  • @anthonyelectric6045
    @anthonyelectric6045 4 года назад +4

    Way to go bill. Very nice explanation and examples of conduit bending. It’s a lost art in some cases.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Thanks so much! Have a great weekend!

  • @JPerez-ld6nb
    @JPerez-ld6nb 3 года назад +5

    So that’s what I was doing wrong. I was taking my measurements from the bottom of the conduit to the top of the conduit.
    Thank you for the clarification Mr. Bill.

  • @michaelcollette8170
    @michaelcollette8170 4 года назад +19

    he seems like the most genuinely nice dude

  • @inkman002
    @inkman002 3 месяца назад +1

    "Oh, right on the money!" Lol, i love this phrase. I say it everytime after a successful bend.

  • @gregkuester8989
    @gregkuester8989 4 года назад +3

    Just a good guy reminds me of my granddad. Teaching comes easy for this guy.

  • @angeldej4225
    @angeldej4225 5 месяцев назад

    Awesome videos by an old school electrician when they had pride in there skills. Thanks Bill. Bending conduit is an art in my opinion.

  • @katieblade7083
    @katieblade7083 3 года назад +1

    Im an apprentice and haven't bend pipe for a bit. Thank you sparky for your content

  • @MyRumplestiltskin
    @MyRumplestiltskin 3 года назад +7

    I’ve been an electrician for 46 years. I am what’s known as a “resimercial” electrician(one who can do both residential work and commercial work). Back in the 80s and early 90s all I did was commercial work. Back then it took skill to bend conduit but now since companies want these commercial jobs to be completed faster than what it took years ago companies are now using MC cable instead of EMT. Nowadays the average guy off the street can come in and pull the MC without any training or skill.

    • @zhumusic-ng9tr
      @zhumusic-ng9tr 5 месяцев назад

      Good for you bitch we here to learn not here you talk about how you miss being young

    • @CHARLY15054
      @CHARLY15054 3 месяца назад

      😂​@@zhumusic-ng9tr

    • @grinch714
      @grinch714 3 месяца назад

      @@zhumusic-ng9tr😂

  • @summonerjp
    @summonerjp 3 года назад +2

    I struggled with conduit bends and tried to borrow bits and pieces of other people's videos. Then I ran into your channel. Good work. You have a knack for explaining this and it resonated with my own logic. Thanks very much!

  • @KinGIIRomE
    @KinGIIRomE 3 года назад +1

    You have no idea how helpful you are to us! Thank you Bill!

  • @justinpowell2460
    @justinpowell2460 4 года назад

    Thank you for ALL of your videos. I was really worried when I found out about what happened with the old account! Your bending videos and switch leg videos helped get me through school and on to the job! I love this trade, and I am so happy to be able to take your lessons to work with me daily. Thanks again!

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      That's cool! Would you like some Sparky Channel stickers? They're great for putting on hard hats, tool boxes etc. Write me at wpm44@yahoo.com if you want some with your name and address and I'll send you a dozen. Thanks, Bill

  • @MikeBramm
    @MikeBramm 4 года назад +4

    You always make it look so easy. You need a shirt with "Damn I'm good" on it. 😉

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      LOL! You made my day!!! Have a great weekend Mike!

  • @christianguevara3122
    @christianguevara3122 4 года назад +2

    Thanks Sparky! This came clutch, I was trying to do an s bend but the 45 offset is exactly what I needed!

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Sounds great! Thanks for writing in. 2 more EMT videos tomorrow AM.

  • @colem.4887
    @colem.4887 4 года назад +1

    I like to use the star when bending 90’s! Only works when measuring on the run!

  • @hondarebel3572
    @hondarebel3572 4 года назад +1

    Please keep making more conduit bending videos.

  • @rg8110
    @rg8110 4 года назад +1

    Congrats on the 4k Mr. Spark...👍

  • @joseamador5817
    @joseamador5817 3 года назад +2

    Hi bill,thank you for your help is a great teaching,I have been learning a lot, is there a limit of emt of a junction box? thanks you

  • @bysassi3917
    @bysassi3917 3 года назад

    Sparky your videos are always helpful, if every apprentice had a Sparky to train them in the field the Electrical field would be full of excellent craftsmen, however, these videos are a great substitute 👍

  • @marcorojas771
    @marcorojas771 Год назад

    Thanks again maestro sparky channel thanks for all your advice and help and keep us teaching stay healthy and safe

  • @garydudgeon
    @garydudgeon 4 года назад

    Good job Sparky. Have a great day.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Hi Gary! You have a great day as well!

  • @sk1nhead23
    @sk1nhead23 2 года назад

    This helped me make a perfect 45° bend first try!

  • @JUNIOR-es3zx
    @JUNIOR-es3zx Год назад +3

    Thanks Sparky

  • @nyw11
    @nyw11 3 года назад +1

    As a commercial estimator, I love learning some tips of the trade that I don't get to play with much. The 45 degree offset bend would also be great because at times we have spec limits on number of degrees of bends before a pull box; so this would save 90 degrees worth.

  • @nathanacuna3920
    @nathanacuna3920 2 года назад

    You can do the second bend without subtracting for the " take" if you just use the star, as you would with back to back 90s.

  • @ubaldoporto7605
    @ubaldoporto7605 4 года назад +1

    Hello Bill I hope you’re doing well, Bill will you have any video the involved single phase motor and three phase wiring.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      See: IDEAL National Championship 2019 Pro Finals: Service Entrance Cable, Torque, Panels and Breakers: ruclips.net/video/PBJepa_n2ds/видео.html
      to see a real pro wiring 3 phase wiring. I don't have motor videos yet. Thanks!

  • @michaelperez9290
    @michaelperez9290 4 года назад +1

    Morning Bill! Awesome vid!

  • @MrStanwyck
    @MrStanwyck 4 года назад

    Another great video from Sparky. That wall is getting busy.. LOL. Enjoy your weekend.....

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Yes, it sure is. LOL! Thanks, you have a great weekend as well!

  • @heymarcross
    @heymarcross 3 года назад +3

    What kind of calculator you use cuz i cant get those numbers

  • @eduardonavarro2980
    @eduardonavarro2980 Месяц назад

    Gracias por los videos he aprendido mucho.!!!!!!

  • @darealsparky480reyes6
    @darealsparky480reyes6 4 года назад +1

    Your are an OG. ( I had to triple OG you for them jean patches. ) edit. Madd respect to you sir.

  • @piwikeyn8533
    @piwikeyn8533 4 года назад +1

    Thank you to gave more videos like that😍 I learn how to bend😁

  • @abdulelkhatib2674
    @abdulelkhatib2674 3 года назад

    I saw an easy way to see if your conduit bends are correct use a digital angle finder with a magnetic side.

  • @stillridin1
    @stillridin1 Год назад

    The 4 pieces of conduit that step out and over the 2 pipes can you show how to do that one? I have 8” square columns that stick out 1 1/2 from the wall every 10 feet in my garage. Great video’s.

    • @matthunter8764
      @matthunter8764 Год назад

      He made a video on it, those are four point saddle bends ruclips.net/video/pWOLGzPo6vM/видео.html

  • @ralphmartinez5792
    @ralphmartinez5792 4 года назад

    Great video! you listed everything but I dont see any information on the gloves you are wearing ?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +1

      I got those gloves at the IDEAL National Electrical Championship. I haven't seen them for sale anywhere but I really like them.

  • @rogervo1965
    @rogervo1965 4 года назад +1

    thx for all the vids. you're awesome man. Can you do a vid on multi shot 90 degree conduit bends. I can't find any on youtube

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Are you asking about concentric 90° bends?

  • @TomsMavrick
    @TomsMavrick 4 года назад +1

    Good morning Sparky! Loving your video, is there a way I can message you personally to get advice because I'm in school now to become an electrician and hope I can have a mentor like you.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +1

      Hi. Just leave a question here in the comment section. That way everyone can learn from the answers. Also, viewers answer sometimes as well. Some of my viewers are incredibly talented. In fact, Greg Anliker, the winner of the IDEAL National Championship this year, writes in once in a while.

  • @IftkharAhmed
    @IftkharAhmed 3 года назад

    Your videos are great and informative. Thank you.

  • @jpinedo18
    @jpinedo18 4 года назад +2

    Good job you make it to easy 👍

  • @vincentsmith4328
    @vincentsmith4328 4 года назад

    Excellent work as always.
    Can you elaborate the 13 7/8” we have in between the 45•

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Thanks! It was 14 1/2" between the studs, then subtract off 5/8" for the size of the 1/2" EMT.

    • @vincentsmith4328
      @vincentsmith4328 4 года назад

      Sparky Channel for the 45• (not S bend)
      Yes subtract 5/8 from the top. Do we take away 5/8 at the bottom too?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      @@vincentsmith4328 No, just the top.

    • @leonardomata5710
      @leonardomata5710 4 года назад

      Sparky Channel does the 5/8 reduction count for any other offset when measuring your distance?

  • @michaelmartin5995
    @michaelmartin5995 4 года назад +1

    When I watch Bill work, it makes me want to throw my EMT bender out the window. I am not worthy. Haha

  • @regionvoices6607
    @regionvoices6607 3 года назад +1

    I get what your doing. Is the 14" the distance between the studs? Because I didn't see you measure between the studs So my distance is18 3/8" so I measure from the floor 18 3/8 deduct 5" and bend it 90* I may need to do a KICK on one end That won't change the distances will it? Thanks I've been away from this for a few years because I'm retired

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  3 года назад

      Thanks! It was 14 1/2" between the studs, then subtract off 5/8" for the size of the 1/2" EMT.

  • @ademyeter5755
    @ademyeter5755 2 года назад +1

    Hello sparky.. From iskenderun turkey... Good job.. 👏👏

  • @frankgrammatico3827
    @frankgrammatico3827 4 года назад +1

    Sparky, I'm totally confused - you didn't include the shrinkage. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. Is there some special rule when using or not using shrinkage?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      No shrink calculation was necessary because I just marked the conduit and cut it after bending it. You need to count in shrinkage when your bends need to be centered over an obstacle as in 3 point saddle bends and 4 point saddle bends.

    • @frankgrammatico3827
      @frankgrammatico3827 4 года назад

      @@SparkyChannel That clears it up, thank you.

  • @ALb3RtO1010
    @ALb3RtO1010 4 года назад +1

    Great video! Thank you.

  • @theoisaac9948
    @theoisaac9948 3 года назад +2

    👍💯 appreciate your channel

  • @juancolon6223
    @juancolon6223 4 года назад +2

    Well explained.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +1

      Thanks Juan!

    • @juancolon6223
      @juancolon6223 4 года назад

      @@SparkyChannel Would like to see a video of bending with a Chicago tipe bender preferably Greenlee . Thanks.

  • @scottthomson2361
    @scottthomson2361 4 года назад +1

    Thanks for this informative channel..

  • @douglasthompson2740
    @douglasthompson2740 9 месяцев назад

    Wondering if you have a specialty tool you know of to take the jacket off twisted 10/3 w gr or larger cable? Seems hard to do without nicking the conductors. Just wondering if they made a jacket stripper as they do for flat romex?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  8 месяцев назад

      Check out my video: Jokari Cable Sheathing Stripper for Round Cable Model 70000 4-70: ruclips.net/video/VfA7hNCLY7U/видео.html

  • @aligary4920
    @aligary4920 4 года назад

    You're the best man.

  • @elc2k385
    @elc2k385 3 года назад +1

    Very nice, thank you.

  • @yinyanglovebomb
    @yinyanglovebomb 3 года назад

    Love this guy

  • @sohailjanjua123
    @sohailjanjua123 3 месяца назад

    Nice video .Thanks

  • @chowchowkenobi9769
    @chowchowkenobi9769 4 месяца назад

    what about the shrinkage for the 45 degree offset

    • @joshgibbs1830
      @joshgibbs1830 20 дней назад

      He didn’t show it but it seems like he cut it down to size after he finished the 45’s so shrinkage didn’t matter

  • @toby514
    @toby514 2 года назад +1

    Could you use the star technique on the s bend ?

    • @KindlyThankyou
      @KindlyThankyou 2 года назад

      Yes. Bender would be flipped in the other direction, then align the star with his back to back mark of 14.5". In this case you would be pulling on the first 90 to bend the 2nd one. Maybe do-able in 1/2" but not 1"

  • @Jspeed1091
    @Jspeed1091 Год назад +1

    my question is how come the S shape was 14 1/2 but the Offset was 13 7/8 when they both are using the same 2x4s

    • @joshkillin
      @joshkillin Год назад +4

      The conduit is 5/8" in diameter, and with the offset you would measure from the bottom of the part of the pipe touching the top stud, to the bottom of the part of the pipe touching the bottom stud. So from bottom-to-bottom would be 13 7/8", add the 5/8" inch diameter to get to the stud, and you have your 14 1/2". I tried to explain it well, I hope it helped.

  • @dieuriphinjeantinord4647
    @dieuriphinjeantinord4647 3 года назад +2

    way to go bill

  • @rukioftheyear92
    @rukioftheyear92 8 месяцев назад

    Way to go sparky 🫡

  • @sergiorodriguez956
    @sergiorodriguez956 3 года назад

    is your shrinkage the same if you were to bend a bigger pipe such as 1 inch emt for example?

    • @jakehumble69
      @jakehumble69 3 года назад

      No different for every size of conduit and different for every bend

  • @kmhanley
    @kmhanley 4 года назад +1

    How to measure "from the first pencil mark"? You mean from that 3inch mark?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Give me a time stamp on the video and I'll look at it.

    • @kmhanley
      @kmhanley 4 года назад

      @@SparkyChannel 6:14 2nd bend of the 45deg

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +3

      @@kmhanley Yes, that's correct. That measurement is taken from the 1st pencil mark which is at 3" before you make any bends. So the first mark would be at 3" and the 2nd one would be at 16 7/8" (13 7/8 + 3=16 7/8)

    • @kmhanley
      @kmhanley 4 года назад

      @@SparkyChannel thanks. I just got my bender now will try.

  • @3lbs
    @3lbs 4 года назад +1

    Is it the same for 3/4 conduit?

  • @maxujess25
    @maxujess25 4 года назад

    You should do a rolling offset

  • @todosmiros8119
    @todosmiros8119 4 года назад +4

    GOOD video. I like certain things he uses. The Square. Instead of "eying " it 90 degrees. Its a good idea. so Why not just have the thing sitting there available for you? Or the Long level he uses.
    Many times foreman will pitch a fit about various tools a worker uses to make the best product. they will say "why are you using a Bla bla bla!?" to imply that somehow youre deficient for using something. Some make a stick with measurements on it. called {cheater" sticks. But I guess its not cheating now that there are phone apps doing the same thing though right?
    the arrogance of the electricians is what makes an easy job, a hard one. Questioning one another for silly things like the type of boot brand, the brand of tools (I HATE kline) or the sort of bag you use, or if you use a bucket or not. Pressure that isnt needed when youre trying to work. One company will swear up and down that a certain behavior is "standard" when it isnt
    For example, placing a faceplate on, and assuring the screw heads are vertical. When wiring a switch placing the switchleg on a certain screw (the top or the bottom). Some people avoid using a wirenut by "wrapping" a wire around one outlet terminal, and onto the adjoining device in the box requiring a hot. Others swear thats terrible. Some people do not twist the wire first under the wirenut, others will send you home for not doing that. Some Bosses require a real reamer, and others will use the head of lineman's or the handle of a pair of channel locks (they strip the plastic off the handle of the channel lock to do that) Some bosses will tell you that you cant use a channel lock with the handle stripped off as if you plan on using the thing on a hot circuit!
    Some feel they want the end of the pipe to look like a manufactured end! Others realize it doesnt have to be that serious, for it wont damage the wire.
    Some will never run a fishtape in a pipe with live wire in it. they think the metal will somehow nick the wire, and would fire you for doing such. Others do it all the time, while adding circuits in an office during work hours.
    If you see a behavior in this list that YOU do, you no doubt will swear those that do the other things are "hacks" or "apprentices" or some other derogatory term. They are not. they are just not you, and live in other parts of the country where behaviors are different. I saw one guy in florida complain about my use of a Caddy clip to hang a pipe, simply because he had never seen that product, and so he felt the holder wasnt "code!" Caddy brand is widely used in Chicago, but not so much if at ALL in the south for some reason.
    Some do one thing, others do another. Tell your workers what YOU want. But dont imply that some other way is "wrong" , its just not how YOU do things on YOUR sites.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      Thanks!

    • @rembleekah8722
      @rembleekah8722 4 года назад

      GREAT POINT. what is comes down to is most electricians are too prideful. That’s why when I’m at work I just do my job and go home. I know I can bend pipe nice and neatly and other skills but I don’t boast about it.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад

      @@rembleekah8722 Sounds good Joshua!

  • @salmaclein8425
    @salmaclein8425 11 месяцев назад

    Great video thanks

  • @Vijaysingh-zp1ql
    @Vijaysingh-zp1ql 2 года назад +1

    Tnanku sir for knowledge

  • @zhumusic-ng9tr
    @zhumusic-ng9tr 5 месяцев назад

    This dude does everything lol

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  5 месяцев назад

      Thanks so much!

    • @zhumusic-ng9tr
      @zhumusic-ng9tr 5 месяцев назад

      @@SparkyChannel thanks man! Your videos are the best

  • @bobandy13
    @bobandy13 4 года назад +1

    Rather than subtracting the 5 inches from 14 and a half for your second bend of the back to back 90, couldn't you have just used the star mark on the bender at your 14 and a half pencil mark?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +1

      Yes, either way is fine.

    • @todosmiros8119
      @todosmiros8119 4 года назад +1

      @@SparkyChannel SEEHOW YOU ARE!?! youre a good man. you said, "either way is fine" you didnt say "well yeah BUT...bla bla bla." and push your own way.
      But see how the guy saw what you did and figured "well he should have done it this OTHER way!?"
      You did what you did, and yes, there are other ways.

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +2

      @@todosmiros8119 When I was at the IDEAL National Championship I really learned how many different techniques there are. And I saw which techniques won the $$ too. :)

  • @mizanurrahman6789
    @mizanurrahman6789 Год назад

    Nice job

  • @CaptK-py8rq
    @CaptK-py8rq 2 года назад

    Great video, thank you, I subscribed as well.

  • @rikirafachannel9445
    @rikirafachannel9445 3 года назад

    Good job..🇲🇨

  • @GreasyReecey
    @GreasyReecey 2 года назад

    I thought it was supposed to be measured from the star for 90s!!!

  • @heribertobonilla6797
    @heribertobonilla6797 3 года назад

    Excelencia y Excelencia y más Dios te bendiga siempre y familia y amigos

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  3 года назад

      ¡Dios te bendiga siempre y familia y amigos!

  • @hisyst
    @hisyst 4 года назад

    Very good

  • @liquidone5179
    @liquidone5179 2 года назад

    When I try to do this for 1 inch EMT I always get a kink in the 2nd bend, tried 4 times. Any suggestions?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  2 года назад

      Go slow and steady if you can. Also, if you can use lesser angles, that will help a lot

    • @4abettaworld
      @4abettaworld 2 года назад +1

      also make sure you have enough foot pressure

  • @dereksmith2137
    @dereksmith2137 Год назад +1

    Great channel keep up the work sparky!

  • @daisyvaladez9057
    @daisyvaladez9057 4 года назад

    Hello Mr. Bill.
    Could you please tell me how to do the math on the calculator for 13 7/8 x 1.4? When I do it I get 19 17/40. Or how do you get from that to 19 7/16?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +2

      Use .875 for 7/8" so it would be 13.875 x 1.4. Have a great 4th of July!!!

    • @Zer0ooo
      @Zer0ooo 4 года назад

      @@SparkyChannel why .875?

    • @timrich6755
      @timrich6755 4 года назад

      @@Zer0ooo for fractions like 7/8 you can divide the first number by the second number 7÷8=.785 you also find a table of common fractions on the back of some Stanley tapes. If you use them often, you'll remember them.

  • @electricolatinoamericano1502
    @electricolatinoamericano1502 4 года назад

    Good

  • @CarlosRojas-eb2gl
    @CarlosRojas-eb2gl 4 года назад

    En español tienes los videos

  • @MrWzeljunior
    @MrWzeljunior 3 года назад

    Why aren't the numbers and symbols on the benders more pronounced? Such as bright colors?

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  3 года назад +1

      Excellent idea!

    • @edvaioli7340
      @edvaioli7340 2 года назад +2

      @@SparkyChannel I took a black magic marker and highlighted all the angle markings and the arrow and star.

  • @felixuchies4688
    @felixuchies4688 8 месяцев назад

    I thought about getting a band saw, but figured a grinder or reciprocating saw would be more useful so might as well spend money on something useful. Long story short some lazy p brain three his atomic reciprocating saw away, because it wouldn't move, damn thing was just caked in drywall dust gears needed some oiling and help getting the drywall dust out. Free 99

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  8 месяцев назад

      Band saws are the way to go. Check out my video: DeWalt 20V Max Compact Band Saw DCS377Q1: 20V Max Power in a Sub-Compact Size: ruclips.net/video/IeeSdrD5csY/видео.html

  • @bananaaaa3428
    @bananaaaa3428 4 года назад

    Damn your bends are beautiful your energy has gone up a lot too, what are u eating lemme get in on that diet lmao

    • @SparkyChannel
      @SparkyChannel  4 года назад +1

      Thanks! Well I just finished eating a bunch of macadamia nuts from my neighbor's tree. They're delicious! Also, I have an organic garden and have been growing kale, tomatoes and basil. And I LOVE a good steak! :) A fav meal would be steak and eggs with homegrown veggies. And living here in San Diego of course I like seafood.

  • @limitless1692
    @limitless1692 2 года назад

    LIKE
    Thank you for sharing :)

  • @deltavina4827
    @deltavina4827 4 года назад

    Great :0

  • @brent52
    @brent52 4 года назад

    goodstuff

  • @freddyalonzo6606
    @freddyalonzo6606 4 года назад

    No se puede subtitular al español

  • @renatoalvesvaz359
    @renatoalvesvaz359 4 года назад

    Brazil Goiânia GO

  • @Cooper-1717
    @Cooper-1717 8 месяцев назад

    👎🏼 Why subtract 5/8" (diameter of conduit) for the 45° but not the 90° bend?! And you didn't explain 1/4" shrink - what is it and why it's not accounted for in your math?
    You said the 2nd bend was made 19 7/16" from the first pencil mark but never showed making that 2nd mark on the pipe, must be marked before the first bend.

  • @cristhanplacko4635
    @cristhanplacko4635 7 месяцев назад

    9

  • @dereksmith8177
    @dereksmith8177 Год назад

    Please don’t ever call it an S bend… it’s a back to back