Nice stuff Tom, well done. @11:54 "some room artifacts aren't dealt with via positioning" I'd politely push back on that, however... perhaps I don't understand your intention. As; - room resonances are fixed, and solely based upon dimensions - which resonances are excited is determined by loudspeaker location - which resonances are experienced by the listener is based upon listener location
I am thinking of several elements, here. The basic summary of my thinking is: almost all positioning moves involve tradeoffs. Given that, I have not found it possible to address all room artifacts via positioning. Another way of saying this is: maybe positioning could address any given artifact, but not all of them together. A few examples may help. One will likely place the listening position in the center of one room dimension (x or y). This will create a null at the primary axial modal frequency of either the x or y dimension. I am skeptical that one can position the speakers to address this null, at least without creating big modal peaks at other frequencies. One will also have a speaker-boundary interference response dip at some frequency due to reflections off the front wall. One can position the speakers to choose where the dip is, but not to eliminate it. I could go on, but I think my reasoning is clear. As a more comprehensive view, I am having a new room built. The acousticians have written finite element analysis software to optimize the speaker and listening position via thousands of simulation runs. The optimal response curve is about +- 10 db in the bass (below Schroeder frequency). Now, can positioning make things better? Yes! But can the problems of bass in real rooms be solved (dealt with) by positioning? I think, and experience suggests, the answer is no. I hope that is clearer, and I would love to be proven wrong.
@@thomasmartin2219 Tools at our disposal for optimizing the speaker/room interface are varied. They include; - room geometry/treatment - speaker positioning - listener location - signal shaping (in both frequency and time domains) Question " ... can the problems of bass in real rooms be solved by positioning?" You say no and I agree. Rarely does any 𝙤𝙣𝙚 of our tools solve anything. However, an optimization approach utilizing 𝙖𝙡𝙡 the tools or modalities 𝙣𝙚𝙘𝙚𝙨𝙨𝙖𝙧𝙮 absolutely solves acoustic problems. Tom, your Kung-fu is strong. Few enthusiasts have the depth of knowledge and experience that you possess. You get it, but not all do. It would serve well those with less experience if they're mindful of three primary tenets of small room acoustics; - modal resonances are set by room dimensions - speaker position determines which modes are 𝙚𝙭𝙘𝙞𝙩𝙚𝙙 - listener position determines which modes are 𝙚𝙭𝙥𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙚𝙣𝙘𝙚𝙙 I much appreciate the thoughtful, reasoned response, ... oftentimes a rarity. Also, congrats ... an acoustician designed purpose built room, very nice. There's examples of intelligent and successful hifi mfrs, with a significant RUclips presence, that mis-guidedly attempt to DIY a room with their own ideas and approaches ... only to ultimately discover that results suffered. You've likely got it covered, but I recommend John Brandt, for multi-channel Keith Yates. Unfortunately there's also an established fraud out there too ... with one of the most prolific RUclips channels, and a slick website. A quick search of this individual's name should convince anyone to stay far away ... no bueno. Thanks Tom All the best
I have a pair of YG Acoustic Hailey 2.2 and love them, even though they retail for $90K in Australia but in my opinion they have an overall better sound than Magico and I auditioned many Magico speakers
I’m probably misunderstanding, but I usually install the speaker cables based on what the cable allows. Many high-end cables are rather stiff, so routing them up or at an angle makes it easier to make the connection without excessive torque.
Wow did I have that wrong. I thought you did this so that the weight of the cable would go in the tightening downward/clockwise direction on the binding post. Now it really makes sense. Thank you@@thomasmartin2219
At Capital Audiofest there was a setup with Carmel3’s and Vinnie Rossi electronics that was sublime. At half the cost for the Talis, I wonder how much of the character and detail of the more expensive speakers was retained?
Ok, great video..thanks. I was surprised at the end that there’s no crossover when the sub is used..the uppers stay at full range 🤔 Oh, well ..everyone has their particular preference.😊
Assuming YG is correct that the Talus can play at high levels full range, this approach may help ensure that the character of the Talus is preserved across as wide a range as possible. It also makes setup simpler because you “only” have l/r placement, stand/floor, and sub level to deal with. While 4pi placement, crossover, level, and phase seem to get closer to optimization, experience may have taught YG that the result is a dog’s breakfast more often than not. This is my speculation, not YG’s stated approach. I can ask if you’re really interested.
Good evening ☕️ I’ve always been fascinated by YG speakers ….but they fall into the lotto winner category of fantasy. That being said …your answer was quite sufficient. Please stay well and enjoy the week.👍
Partly an optical distortion due to a wide angle lens, and we also used Vicoustic absorbers on the masonry and drywall to absorb the first reflection points (not in view).
. I see T.A.S., perhaps for the 1st time ever in these videos, correctly placed the Sub-woofer. Even if there were 2, they should both be stacked or behind one another on the same plane & centered between the mains. None of that ridiculous sub-crawling method, if you please. Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Great video and review. Duncan is such a great resource for music and placement knowledge. YG is lucky to have him.
Nice stuff Tom, well done.
@11:54
"some room artifacts aren't dealt with via positioning"
I'd politely push back on that, however... perhaps I don't understand your intention.
As;
- room resonances are fixed, and solely based upon dimensions
- which resonances are excited is determined by loudspeaker location
- which resonances are experienced by the listener is based upon listener location
I am thinking of several elements, here. The basic summary of my thinking is: almost all positioning moves involve tradeoffs. Given that, I have not found it possible to address all room artifacts via positioning. Another way of saying this is: maybe positioning could address any given artifact, but not all of them together. A few examples may help. One will likely place the listening position in the center of one room dimension (x or y). This will create a null at the primary axial modal frequency of either the x or y dimension. I am skeptical that one can position the speakers to address this null, at least without creating big modal peaks at other frequencies. One will also have a speaker-boundary interference response dip at some frequency due to reflections off the front wall. One can position the speakers to choose where the dip is, but not to eliminate it. I could go on, but I think my reasoning is clear. As a more comprehensive view, I am having a new room built. The acousticians have written finite element analysis software to optimize the speaker and listening position via thousands of simulation runs. The optimal response curve is about +- 10 db in the bass (below Schroeder frequency). Now, can positioning make things better? Yes! But can the problems of bass in real rooms be solved (dealt with) by positioning? I think, and experience suggests, the answer is no. I hope that is clearer, and I would love to be proven wrong.
@@thomasmartin2219
Tools at our disposal for optimizing the speaker/room interface are varied.
They include;
- room geometry/treatment
- speaker positioning
- listener location
- signal shaping (in both frequency and time domains)
Question
" ... can the problems of bass in real rooms be solved by positioning?"
You say no and I agree.
Rarely does any 𝙤𝙣𝙚 of our tools solve anything.
However, an optimization approach utilizing 𝙖𝙡𝙡 the tools or modalities 𝙣𝙚𝙘𝙚𝙨𝙨𝙖𝙧𝙮 absolutely solves acoustic problems.
Tom, your Kung-fu is strong. Few enthusiasts have the depth of knowledge and experience that you possess. You get it, but not all do.
It would serve well those with less experience if they're mindful of three primary tenets of small room acoustics;
- modal resonances are set by room dimensions
- speaker position determines which modes are 𝙚𝙭𝙘𝙞𝙩𝙚𝙙
- listener position determines which modes are 𝙚𝙭𝙥𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙚𝙣𝙘𝙚𝙙
I much appreciate the thoughtful, reasoned response, ... oftentimes a rarity.
Also, congrats ... an acoustician designed purpose built room, very nice.
There's examples of intelligent and successful hifi mfrs, with a significant RUclips presence, that mis-guidedly attempt to DIY a room with their own ideas and approaches ... only to ultimately discover that results suffered.
You've likely got it covered, but I recommend John Brandt, for multi-channel Keith Yates.
Unfortunately there's also an established fraud out there too ... with one of the most prolific RUclips channels, and a slick website.
A quick search of this individual's name should convince anyone to stay far away ... no bueno.
Thanks Tom
All the best
Would love to make a very high end hot chocolate for Tom on a very cold winter's day.
Sounds lovely. I am, naturally, curious if high-end beats Swiss Miss. Seems easy enough, but the world is full of surprises.
Love the reviews.
I have a pair of YG Acoustic Hailey 2.2 and love them, even though they retail for $90K in Australia but in my opinion they have an overall better sound than Magico and I auditioned many Magico speakers
Tom @ 13:21 I've seen your cables like this on other speakers, and it just dawned on me why? Great idea.
I’m probably misunderstanding, but I usually install the speaker cables based on what the cable allows. Many high-end cables are rather stiff, so routing them up or at an angle makes it easier to make the connection without excessive torque.
Wow did I have that wrong. I thought you did this so that the weight of the cable would go in the tightening downward/clockwise direction on the binding post. Now it really makes sense. Thank you@@thomasmartin2219
"Frankly, I've heard some technological wonders that didn't sound much like music." - Tom Martin
That is a good observation, well and fairly stated.
At Capital Audiofest there was a setup with Carmel3’s and Vinnie Rossi electronics that was sublime. At half the cost for the Talis, I wonder how much of the character and detail of the more expensive speakers was retained?
Ok, great video..thanks.
I was surprised at the end that there’s no crossover when the sub is used..the uppers stay at full range 🤔
Oh, well ..everyone has their particular preference.😊
Assuming YG is correct that the Talus can play at high levels full range, this approach may help ensure that the character of the Talus is preserved across as wide a range as possible. It also makes setup simpler because you “only” have l/r placement, stand/floor, and sub level to deal with. While 4pi placement, crossover, level, and phase seem to get closer to optimization, experience may have taught YG that the result is a dog’s breakfast more often than not. This is my speculation, not YG’s stated approach. I can ask if you’re really interested.
Good evening ☕️
I’ve always been fascinated by YG speakers ….but they fall into the lotto winner category of fantasy.
That being said …your answer was quite sufficient.
Please stay well and enjoy the week.👍
@@thomasmartin2219 - I'm sure the sub has a low pass crossover, so not to muddy the Talus low end response.
Very good review
Seemed like you could move the rt speaker from being so close to the masonry fireplace by moving the power amps.
Partly an optical distortion due to a wide angle lens, and we also used Vicoustic absorbers on the masonry and drywall to absorb the first reflection points (not in view).
Most likely to add the sub woofer…. My Dynaudio C5s still sound great…great review as always…
. I see T.A.S., perhaps for the 1st time ever in these videos, correctly placed the Sub-woofer. Even if there were 2, they should both be stacked or behind one another on the same plane & centered between the mains.
None of that ridiculous sub-crawling method, if you please.
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Tom sounds better when he's winging it instead of reading it. Sounds like a company brochure.
Audioquest....yeh right
If snakes made cables ?
Made about 10 miles due north from me.