It would be Awesome to have more Arcade on MiSTer like Virtua Fighter or Street Fighter EX Plus Update, that was only on the Arcade! But it would be even harder to had, Hyper Neo Geo 64. Don't Give up! 🔥🔥🔥
Not familiar with the Mister FPGA specs but I think the big question is simply whether all of the hardware could fit into number of gates available for use. The Model 2 is basically a big multi-processor system that uses a bunch of microprocessors and DSPs to do everything. Each of those have to be implemented, along with all the glue logic that binds them together.
One benefit is in all of this we are effectively making a custom chip in the fpga each time. and as seen with N64 there are often functions not utilized by the game. we might even end up with only 2 or 3 functions of that silicon used in the implementation that they used the chip for letting someone get the math right on just those functions letting b and c squeak in on some games without full function re-implementation.
Completely agree: those are also highly desirable platforms to see on the MiSTer. And most likely simpler ones to implement, as they only output flat shaded polygons.
@@VideoGameEsoterica I know I'm hoping that cps3 and igs pgm won't mars only currently playing the gladiators on my laptop would love to have that on a TV screen
I doubt it. Devs don't have a clue what those m2 graphics do at the transistor level to code a perfect software emulator. Elsemi did high level emulation in his m2emu. Mame has some math calculation issues (flying cars in sega rally). Would love to be proved wrong and see it done!
I want initial D, isn’t that a model 3? Sky target looks so good! It’s like AfterBurner 3d Is that a Pepsi branded skateboard in fighting vipers? Gotta love the corporate-ness of the 90s that brought us Pepsi man
Could some of those sound chips be offloaded to software emulation similar to the mt32-pi? Or is that the wrong way to think about it since they are integral to the board so to speak?
So Model 1 must be possible for sure? Still waiting to play a cycle accurate version of VIrtua Fighter arcade. Oh well, I'll just play a cycle accurate Saturn copy then :)
Now the real question. MARS? If its the amount of logic elements stopping it theoretically. Just how many would the... 6 GPU chips of B need and so on for C?
Excellent video but I’ve got one simple question for you VGE…. What is a more powerful arcade machine. Sega model 3 or Sega Naomi? Nobody has done a video comparing the two, so you can be the first i think👍
Wow, I was literally *just* trying to get Model 2 emulation to work on my Steam Deck last night. Spent a couple hours on it by following a guide I found online, but I eventually had to give up on it though, because it just wasn't working. Super frustrating!
@@VideoGameEsoterica is an Amiga using a PiStorm as CPU not an Amiga anymore? Sega Model 2 is such an significantly important system, it’s completely justified. Come on, you even did a video about it! First Sega Model 2, then Konami GTI Club / Cobra / Viper 😉 PS: Would the GPIO - or even the DRAM interface - be feasible to connect a Raspberry Pi (a lá PiStorm) to perform the GPU work? Would like to hear (informed) people’s views on this 👍
@@VideoGameEsoterica - idea: What about inviting Robert, Jotego (and/or other notorious MiSTer devs) for a technical interview on the channel, to ask things like these?
Would love a Model 2 core. Seems a little out of reach since that hardware is way past N64, but we didn't believe we'd get that either... Unrelated (well maybe only a little) but have you played the Daytona 2 in the new Like a Dragon game? Might be a cool video to make as a follow-up to your unported Sega racers videos.
That's interesting because I've always thought of Model 2 as superior to the N64. Probably because every game runs at a locked 60fps and on N64 your lucky if you get 30.@@VideoGameEsoterica
It’s just because it was designed to target 60fps in the dev process. N64 hardware didn’t age as well visually but it’s equally if not more so “advanced”
Gzus man, Model 2 have a PS2 graphics at 1993/4, even Model 2 ports on Console (on PS2, not the Model 2 Collection on PS3/X360 that are faithful ports) are downgraded because of graphic complexity.
@@VideoGameEsoterica I am not so sure. There have been efforts to decap some of the chips for the model 2. But I am not sure how far they got, or how successful they were. As far as I understand the emulation in mame for model 2's gpu is mostly high level.
What about Dreamcast? It has an insane clock speed, but if any 6th gen machine could make it, it would have to be the Dreamcast with its simpler architecture. I think the main challenge would be the sound chip besides the clock speed itself.
@@VideoGameEsoterica mainly cause of the fpga chip its gonna use,but I'll save it for when we actually see footage of it. Besides that price point sticks out like a sore thumb for me.
CORES would be nice however you would still need to both model 1 and model 2revisions id you are speaking of the segamsand sega ms2 and samewith genesis/megadrive cores, i believemodel 2s sms droped cuecard support, wjereasmodel1's had it model 1 i believe in the genesis/mega you got the side by cd add-ons the second revision had the revised unit under neath the console
It would be Awesome to have more Arcade on MiSTer like Virtua Fighter or Street Fighter EX Plus Update, that was only on the Arcade!
But it would be even harder to had, Hyper Neo Geo 64.
Don't Give up! 🔥🔥🔥
Ooh Hyper. You know I want that!
@@VideoGameEsoterica Underrated Arcade
Trust me I know. I’ve got the full set in my arcade closet
Not familiar with the Mister FPGA specs but I think the big question is simply whether all of the hardware could fit into number of gates available for use. The Model 2 is basically a big multi-processor system that uses a bunch of microprocessors and DSPs to do everything. Each of those have to be implemented, along with all the glue logic that binds them together.
That’s the question at hand. If you could get them ALL on the FPGA in the avail space. I think you could for OG Model 2 at least
One benefit is in all of this we are effectively making a custom chip in the fpga each time. and as seen with N64 there are often functions not utilized by the game. we might even end up with only 2 or 3 functions of that silicon used in the implementation that they used the chip for letting someone get the math right on just those functions letting b and c squeak in on some games without full function re-implementation.
This is true. Plenty of the functions never got touched by the games so those are useless as far as getting them in logic is concerned
Sega Model 2 is impossible to run on Mister until FPGAzumSpass prove it is.
Lol he’s not into arcade stuff so I doubt he’d take a look
Shouldn't we ask for Sega System 24, 32 and Model 1 first?
How about Namco System 12, 13 and Super System 22, 23?
Sure and I’ll do those vids in the future. I make these in the order of the requests I get in comments :)
@@VideoGameEsoterica, yes - please do Namco 3D arcade platforms!
Completely agree: those are also highly desirable platforms to see on the MiSTer. And most likely simpler ones to implement, as they only output flat shaded polygons.
I will eventually :)
Never mind Model 2 I'm still waiting for Enduro Racer.
Maybe one day
at least model 1 for virtua racing would be nice.
Model 1 would def be possible it seems
Just want to say I appreciate all of the understated humor you sprinkle in 😂
Haha I’m glad people enjoy it. It’s one of my most fun things to do
The 3D aspects are a bonus to me. I'd be happy with Model 1 but, of course, would like Model 2.
Would be fun to see both for sure
I'd be happy with Sega Model 1 to be honest.
I do hope we see it but with such a limited library of games I’d wonder if anyone wants to take on the work for such a small yield
@@VideoGameEsotericaI mean the cps3 has less than 6 games so quantity ain't an issue for these developers
True. But popularity wise CPS 3 is gonna come out ahead of you poll people
@@VideoGameEsoterica I know I'm hoping that cps3 and igs pgm won't mars only currently playing the gladiators on my laptop would love to have that on a TV screen
I’m sure it’ll all end up on MiSTer. That’s where the patrons are and the hardware install base is
I doubt it. Devs don't have a clue what those m2 graphics do at the transistor level to code a perfect software emulator. Elsemi did high level emulation in his m2emu. Mame has some math calculation issues (flying cars in sega rally). Would love to be proved wrong and see it done!
But with enough effort someone could learn :)
I agree. Once Elsemi will retire from SEGA, maybe we will see some Model 2 FPGA or Model 2 ported to other systems besides Windows.
We can only hope
Appreciate this video because I’ve always wondered but knew people were always asking lol
I enjoy these kinds of videos. Just pure thought experiments
I want initial D, isn’t that a model 3?
Sky target looks so good! It’s like AfterBurner 3d
Is that a Pepsi branded skateboard in fighting vipers? Gotta love the corporate-ness of the 90s that brought us Pepsi man
Initial D is a Naomi game
No NAOMI
And yes that’s Pepsi lol
what about having different variant cores with only the chips used by the game in FPGA, loading the custom core automatically based on selected game?
That would be most likely how it’s done; core for each variant
I enjoy the bag of chips reference 😂
For me Model 3 is more interesting, so many great Sega games that never got ported to PC or console.
I love 2 and 3 equally
Could some of those sound chips be offloaded to software emulation similar to the mt32-pi? Or is that the wrong way to think about it since they are integral to the board so to speak?
Wrong way to think about it :)
Plan to do a video on Direct Video (LaserBear's version)?
At some point. It’s on the list. But the list grows ever longer
"THE IMPOSSIBLE CORE! Sega Model 2C releases NEW CORE??" Manifesting that.
Haha it’s good energy to manifest
I would like to know if MisTer fpga will run street fighter ex plus A and B
The psx arcade stuff?
So Model 1 must be possible for sure? Still waiting to play a cycle accurate version of VIrtua Fighter arcade. Oh well, I'll just play a cycle accurate Saturn copy then :)
Model 1 def seems doable. I’ll do a vid in the future
Now the real question. MARS? If its the amount of logic elements stopping it theoretically. Just how many would the... 6 GPU chips of B need and so on for C?
Possible on MARS. But we know so little about it so far hard to say
Excellent video but I’ve got one simple question for you VGE…. What is a more powerful arcade machine. Sega model 3 or Sega Naomi? Nobody has done a video comparing the two, so you can be the first i think👍
Mixed answer; model 3 beats NAOMI in some departments, NAOMI wins in the other. Just depends on where you need the power p
You are the chosen one to do a video on it because nobody else has as far as i can tell. Or maybe I’m the only one who really cares 😂
Haha I care too. I’ll consider a vid :)
@@VideoGameEsotericanice it would make a great video 👍
Never know what I’ll se
Wow, I was literally *just* trying to get Model 2 emulation to work on my Steam Deck last night. Spent a couple hours on it by following a guide I found online, but I eventually had to give up on it though, because it just wasn't working. Super frustrating!
It’s so dependent on Windows. We’re you dual booting?
Doesn’t require windows at all. Let me know if you’re still struggling.
“so you’re telling me there’s a chance!”
Haha never know
A Raspberry Pi could be connected to the bus/GPIO to be used as a GPU PiStorm / provide graphics functionality via OpenGL ✌️
In other words, the Raspberry Pi would do the work of the DSPs / GPU.
Yes but sorta defeats the FPGA purpose. I’d still play it though!
@@VideoGameEsoterica is an Amiga using a PiStorm as CPU not an Amiga anymore?
Sega Model 2 is such an significantly important system, it’s completely justified.
Come on, you even did a video about it!
First Sega Model 2, then Konami GTI Club / Cobra / Viper 😉
PS: Would the GPIO - or even the DRAM interface - be feasible to connect a Raspberry Pi (a lá PiStorm) to perform the GPU work?
Would like to hear (informed) people’s views on this 👍
@@VideoGameEsoterica - idea: What about inviting Robert, Jotego
(and/or other notorious MiSTer devs)
for a technical interview on the channel, to ask things like these?
Yes you could use GPIO for a hat
Is there a similar board like the de-10 nano that could be used with the Mister that has more capabilities?
Nothing currently no
I’ve read Intel i9 25Ghz for a sec 😅
Haha that would be FAST
i9 25Ghz? Mmmm lovely space heater and gaming machine.
Lol
Sega Model 3 )
Snowballs chance in hell
Supermodel emulator is fantastic, i'm sure you tried it @@VideoGameEsoterica
Would love a Model 2 core. Seems a little out of reach since that hardware is way past N64, but we didn't believe we'd get that either...
Unrelated (well maybe only a little) but have you played the Daytona 2 in the new Like a Dragon game? Might be a cool video to make as a follow-up to your unported Sega racers videos.
I wouldnt put OG Model 2 past N64 in complexity nor clock speeds
That's interesting because I've always thought of Model 2 as superior to the N64. Probably because every game runs at a locked 60fps and on N64 your lucky if you get 30.@@VideoGameEsoterica
It’s just because it was designed to target 60fps in the dev process. N64 hardware didn’t age as well visually but it’s equally if not more so “advanced”
Gzus man, Model 2 have a PS2 graphics at 1993/4, even Model 2 ports on Console (on PS2, not the Model 2 Collection on PS3/X360 that are faithful ports) are downgraded because of graphic complexity.
It does hold up well graphically even to today
by the way Namco System22 too!!
I may look at that in another vid
I don't think the hardware is well enough understood where low level emulation would be possible.
Thats just a time issue though
@@VideoGameEsoterica I am not so sure. There have been efforts to decap some of the chips for the model 2. But I am not sure how far they got, or how successful they were. As far as I understand the emulation in mame for model 2's gpu is mostly high level.
Yeah I’m not saying it’s an easy task. I’m just talking about technical overheads :)
where is the sega system 18 sega system 24 sega system 32 hyper neo geo 64 and capcom cps3?
Pending or not announced
Will we get a video of you eating your words
I hope so :)
What about Dreamcast? It has an insane clock speed, but if any 6th gen machine could make it, it would have to be the Dreamcast with its simpler architecture. I think the main challenge would be the sound chip besides the clock speed itself.
The clock speed is the issue on DC
I feel called out because I'm one of those people annoying everyone asking for Model 2 core. I just want some arcade perfect House of the Dead. 😅
haha dont feel called out. Its a fun question to answer :)
Is there any arcade core lightgun support?
Not as of yet no. At least not last time I checked
Model 2 definitely. Such an amazing system, may as well do Model 1 as well :) Daytonaaa!!!!!
Let’s go away!
I think MARSFPGA will achieve that before Mister does.
I dunno why you would think that? nothing against MARS (I mean I do videos on it)
@@VideoGameEsoterica mainly cause of the fpga chip its gonna use,but I'll save it for when we actually see footage of it. Besides that price point sticks out like a sore thumb for me.
That’s the point of this vid. Discussing logic needed. MiSTer would more than likely fit most of this
theres no fucking way any n64 game looks as complex as model2!
Looks don’t matter. Just computational power and needed logic.
So... One playable game by Christmas?😅
jk
Lol nice
how about model 1 first lads
CORES would be nice however you would still need to both model 1 and model 2revisions id you are speaking of the segamsand sega ms2 and samewith genesis/megadrive cores, i believemodel 2s sms droped cuecard support, wjereasmodel1's had it model 1 i believe in the genesis/mega you got the side by cd add-ons the second revision had the revised unit under neath the console
I.. I had to check if the video was playing at 0.75 speed. I'm not used to you speaking this slow.
Was I? Lol
WHUT ?!?!? Sega Model 2 on MiSTer 😱💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥 How many episodes did I miss !? This is amazingggggg 🥶🥵🥶🥵🥶🥵
Lol I’m assuming this is in jest