Inside The Cockpit - Canadair Sabre CL-13B
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- The Canadair CL-13B stands at the end of the F-86 Sabre's development. Produced in parallel, the Canadian variants appear with little outward difference but once you look closer, they are a breed of their own. This episode does not feature the cockpit due to radiation levels.
⚜ Museum ⚜
Visit the Military History Museum of the Bundeswehr (Luftwaffe) Berlin-Gatow
mhm-gatow.de/en/
⚜ Support the Channel ⚜
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⚜ Find Me On Social Media ⚜
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⚜ Sources ⚜
Duncan Curtis, Sabre - The Canadair Sabre in RAF Service
Ray Wagner, The North American Sabre, MacDonald Aircraft Monographs
EO 05-5C-1, RCAF Pilots Operating Instructions Sabre MKS 2 & 4
Canadair, Pilot Memo for Sabre 6 aircraft
RAD-13K-101, Preliminary Specification for the Canadair Sabre 7 Airplane for the German Air Force
⚜ Music ⚜
Music and Sfx from Epidemic Sound
#militaryaviationhistory #Insidethecockpit #CL-13
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Video starts proper at 01:36 but the PSA is IMPORTANT so please watch it.
I think the best way to show the cockpit in these situations is with photographs from the service life of the aircraft.
The Moorabbin Airport museum has a CAC sabre as well as loads of other planes such as a mirage 3, Sea venom, Canberra bomber, and much more if you are ever in Melbourne Australia you should have a look at it! Also the one at point cook airbase is quite good too.
MY FAVORITE "LINE" in your videos so far, was the one for the F-4 " THE IRON PIG " (SWINE) !!!!
Hi Bismarck, what's that helmet in the background at the start of the video? I have one exactly like that, and I've always wondered which plane it's for. Other than it being possibly Soviet in origin I don't have much more info on it.
Thanks!
Excellent synopsis and history of this aircraft, you answered several questions and raised my awareness of how it fit into the subject of the F-86. At 14:42 and later again you mentioned the slight deployment of the air brakes. In future clips you may want to use the phrase "museum piece" as part of the explanation of a curator's decision to contrast it with the "flight ready" condition a pilot would require. Including the lineup at 17:18 is bound to help attendance at the Military History Museum of the Bundeswehr (Luftwaffe) Berlin-Gatow. We've visited some important small museums, but this is obviously a major collection which needs to be on any enthusiast's map!
Great video and very informative. For a Canadian its a bittersweet story. During the 50's Canadair, Orenda and AV Roe were producing some of the finest airframes and engines in the world. Your video is a reminder of what might have been.
Just a minor point on pronunciation, it is not "Canada air" it is "Cana Dare" It runs as one word.
He’s German give him a break English is his second language
To be fair, sometimes we Canadians just pronounce things weird, I'm sure you can find someone to tell you all aboot it ;)
@@fratink That is aboat it!
@@chosh3637 which is why he left a respectful comment letting him know. If I was mispronouncing something I would like to be let know
In 1978 I was with the USAF at Kunsan AFB ROK, the ROKAF was flying these Canadair Sabrejets. The Korean pilots flew them insanely!
Something that seems to get overlooked and unmentioned re at least some, possibly all, of the the CL-13Bs: The original Sabre was apparently a bit of a terrible beast when it came to engine changes. The story goes that back in the mists of time USAF and RCAF Sabre squadrons happened to find themselves temporarily sharing some base in Europe and as these setups often do, a discussion of who could do stuff faster than who developed over some cokes or beers or something. So a contest was arranged re who could extract a Sabre engine quickest and replace same. As the contest got underway, the Canadian crew rolled out a strange looking contraption that soon had the Sabre's rear fuselage in its firm grasp. A whole quick disconnect rear fuselage which when easily separated and pushed back revealed total free access to the entire engine.
3:10 Hahaha, you felt the irresistible urge to add that "eh" ?
DID YOU read all comment from the crybbabies over the MIG-15 ??
This is the first time I've heard a non-Canadian joke about how we say "eh?" by actually using it correctly.
@@bussche HES A SMART MAN!!
Sorry......
Maybe it would be possible to do a voiceover on a picture of the instrument panel from the internet to add in those cases you can't acces them. (But I totally understand the reasons why it can be tricky)
The Mk 1 prototype is a survivor that currently resides at the Edmonton Alberta Aviation Museum. They also have open cockpit days where you can sit inside.
Agent Jay Z should be casually wrenching in the background
Canadair improved the design & performance. That's why Germany bought CL-6s intested of F-86s. Google RCAF Golden Hawks.
Saw the Golden Hawk aerobatic displays at CFB Namao back in the early sixties. Very exciting as planes flew close to the crowds in those days and I mean read the fine print on the access panels close.
Improved a 10 year old design? I know you claim fastest F86? At the same time we were gong mach 2 in the f104 and f4. We were already done with the Saber.
@@wiskadjak Me too.....I remember the Golden Hawks flying over Vancouver during the PNE when I was a kid.....
@@dougdenhamlouie yes, different aircraft. However, the Mk 6 was much better for what it was than the 104 was. Day fighter vs interceptor.
@@cactusjack1943 My dad flew the F86 as commander of Wadena AFB 1956. Formed a Acrobatic team with him as lead. 2 planes he fell in love with were the spitfire MKV then the F86. Said it was very easy to master compared to prop aircraft. No torque mixture or prop to mess with just pure thrust. 8 point rolls were a snap. Fastest F86? It's like saying you had the fastest model T the year the Hemi Cuda came out. Did you hear about the longest sniper shot claimed by Canada? What no one talks about is it took 80 plus rounds to make the one hit. Operation Anaconda.
Good looking bird
I just found your channel. Amazing. Being a Canadian, this video was especially interesting. Especially with the history between our two countries. I had a friend who was RCAF and based in West Germany as an engineer who worked on the CL-13.
Amazing how Canada enabled the Sabre to be just a little bit more than it's original design! Such an interesting nugget of aviation history!
Absolutely love these! Hope to see a MiG-29 video with that hint of one in the background 😋
:)
Another fantastic video Bis. A rather forgotten yet remarkable little Sabre. Serving with others without the fanfare of its American counterparts in Korea. Yet important non the less.
Fantastic work as always. And dat Fulcrum in the background.🤤🤤😍😍 Can't wait for that episode.
SoonTM :)
I will always say that the RCAF...should have gone hog for their own Sabre Sqn in Korea....Hell.... a Commonwealth Sabre Wing?... Now there's a book.....Look Bluudy out!
Holy shit, I've just realized this guy is Bismarck, I used to love his IL2 videos and I couldn't remember when I'd subscribed to this fantastic German flying version of The Chieftain... they were one and the same!
CAC Sabre of RAAF available at Temora Aviation Museum, NSW just down the road from me. I'm often there for flying days. They have other great planes too, such as a Vampire, Dragonfly, Boomerang, Spitfire Mk VIII etc...
Temora has a great flying collection.
Love the CL-13. Glad we still have one sitting around at the airfield i'm working at.
okay i have to add on to that now. i actually found a fuel filter for the Orenda in the besament yesterday, still in its original packaging dated 1959
You are doing a fantastic job! Continue to produce such good quality videos, we love it! Cheers!
Thanks Eric
Great job MAH. Thank you, I had no idea regarding the history of the Canadair Sabre. Cheers form Canada, eh. 👍💪
I think you need to look at the Australian "Avon Sabre"
The Sabre was used extensively in the wars of 1965 and 1971 over the Indian Subcontinent and saw heavy combat. I am surprised that not too many Western aviation historians mention this role of the Sabre. The only reference I have found is in Chuck Yeager's autobiography. He was the U.S. military attache to Pakistan during the war of 1971 (India v. Pakistan). According to him (he stated that he physically verified a number of kills) the PAF completely outclassed the IAF in the air. It may be because Pakistan lost both the land wars decisively, the superiority of the PAF was eclipsed by these defeats. Pakistan also used the F-104 in combat against the Indians. The Sabres fought supersonic Soviet fighters like the SU-7 and MIG-21's along with Indian Hunters and Gnats and shot down a great number of these aircraft in air to air combat. A number of very low level dogfights took place during this conflict. The father of a friend of mine flew the Sabre in combat in 1971. By this time the aircraft was retrofitted with Sidewinders and Martin baker seats. This pilot shot down an SU-7 and damaged another SU-7 during an engagement. His name was Wamiq Rasheed and I found him listed in the Air Aces Homepage. He passed away in 2017 and I met with him once in 1989. He had very fond memories of this aircraft and said that it was a "pure pleasure" to fly and handled wonderfully. He also stated that the old Sidewinders were quite prone to malfunctioning and that one could not fire them while pulling G or too close to the ground (heat conduction). Even today, this aircraft, the Sabre is almost like a celebrity in Pakistan.
Great bird. We had a Canadair Sabre in our school in Roma back in the '80. BTW love the 109E-4 behind you
I didn't even realize the RAF used the F-86 until I found a model of one. Looks sharp in RAF camo.
I grew up in Montreal. My dad used to take me to watch the CF-104s take off, on test hops.
Erich Hartmann, probably one of the greatest Aces of WW2 and of all time, flew one of those
Dagum
Yes youre right, and mostly the ,,Triple One,, JA-111..........
He was the greatest, 352 kills
You're excellent at what you do. Thank you for this video.
Cheers
Bismarck really had to do it to em in the thumbnail huh
We have a Sabre at my local air museum, the Vintage Flying Museum in Fort Worth, Texas, USA. An F-86F, retired from Bolivian Air Force service in 1994.
Sharpest sabre in the sky?
Laughs in Avon Sabre!
Angus Hatty Tell you what, Cobber, let's give it a shot with an F-86H. (9,000# thrust engine, 4 20mm M39s that can be fired without compressor stalling the engine, and the slats and extended wing tips. ) We'll start head-on over the field at 35,000, break right as we pass, an then Fight's On! After I run you out of gas, we'll swap rounds and compare gun camera films in the Open Mess. :)
Actually, the Aussie Sabres were very good, and they lasted into the 1970s - some of them deployed to Thailand for airbase defense during the Vietnam War.
A CA.32 Avon Sabre, a Mk 6, a Sabre Hog (H model) or a late F were as close to Fighter Perfection as it got in the mid-1950s.
@@peterstickney7608 Hey, Peter... I have two Canadair Sabre engines in my shop right now. Last year I repaired a J47 out of an F86-F. The most popular Sabre with people who own them and fly them seems to be the Canadair Sabre 6... painted up and identified as an F86-F. Are there any Avon powered Aussie Sabres flying? I hope so, because I have worked on industrial versions of those engines as well.
I know one owner who has an F86-F, and a Sabre 6. The Orenda 14 engine in the 6 makes 7200 lbs thrust, while the J47 in the F makes 5500.
Maybe it's a matter of availability, but I don't know of anybody who flies an H model.
HELL Yeaah!!!!!
@@AgentJayZ there is an Avon Sabre flying at Avalon in NSW, Australia.
Yes, most of the Sabres flying these days are CL-13s. There are 2 reasons thar stand out - The Canadair Sabre is a great ship, and they came out late enough that their front line (and more stressful)
Outstanding video. Great job.
Dad Hank was a technician on these in 3 Wing Zweibrücken late 1950's early '60's. Attended a number of Guynemer Trophy competitions which Canadian crews did exceedingly well in, winning 4 years running.
Great video. I watched all the way to the end. Now I have to believe that Bismarck always carries around some exotic German hard candy that probably tastes like Jagermeister.
I'd love to see you come to Canada and do a walkaround of a CF-100 Canuck, which was the Canadair Sabre's all-weather interceptor counterpart (I think there may still be some in Belgium too though if you didn't want to make the flight).
Correct, there's one in Belgium in the Royal Museum of the Armed Forces and Military History but also another one in the Imperial War Museum Duxford in the UK. I believe that's it for European based ones.
I had no idea there were that many variants of the venerable F-86. Thanks, Bis!
Indonesia & Malaysia has a CA-27 each on display, could be an idea incase going to Australia is too much of a monetary strech.
The South African Air Force flew the Mk6 until the late 1980's.
What is better than Bismarck?
Bismarck with dramatic music
Some Swordfish
Talk about the U.S. pilot that ejected from a CL-13 because it was going too fast. This happened at the the Arrow's base.
These are always fantastic
I will be in Berlin the very next week and your video came right in time!
I didn't know MHM Gatow exhibits were so many.
Awesome, you going to visit?
@@MilitaryAviationHistory Hell yeah! There are so many aircrafts I've never seen before.
I visited Deutsches Technikmuseum and saw the airspace collection in the past (I will visit it again now)
but I am interested in other places related to aviation and WWII too.
Any suggestions?
Nice job on the F-86 / CL-13. It was a thrill to see these painted in Drone Orange. Unfortunately that meant a shoot down by an AIM of some sort.
Sorry but the CAC-27 Avon Sabre were more powerful and had Rolls-Royce Avon turbojet, engines with 7,500 lbf (33.4 kN) compared to the canadair Sabre Orenda 10 with 6,500 lbf (29 kN) thrust. The Australian built Avon Sabre were introduced to the RAAF in 1954 with significant fuselage design changes from the start. The Australian Sabre was considered to be the best evolution of the Sabre design, performance wise and firepower.
張博倫 too late for combat in Korea then. The Canadair Sabre Mk 6/Orenda14 was a lighter airframe w/ 7,440 lbf (32 kN), also built in 1954 and considered to be the “best” Sabre by NATO members that flew them including the US, UK, Canada, and Germany. Canadair built and supplied the USAF with Mk 2 Sabres (power assist controls and all-flying tailplane) in early 1952 to counter the MiG 15 in high speed dogfights.
@@dashcroft1892 The CAC-Avon Sabres saw action during the Malayan Emergency and during the Konfrontasi between Indonesia and Malaysia from 1963 until 1966. The Indonesians flew MiG-15s
張博倫 good to know. How many Indonesian MiG 15s did the CACs shoot down during the confrontation?
Looks like you're going to have to find a bunch of pilots who've flown both to establish a concensus as to which was the better crate.
GOOD LUCK on that mission,mate!
Wonderful video very informative. I never knew that Canada manufactured these.!!!!
Canadair also licenced built the T-33, the F-104. And designed a few other models (google CL-28, CL-41, CL-44, CL-84, CL-415, CL-604).
Later on Bombardier took over Canadair. You know the rest.
13:57 I imagine having a MiG next to your Sabre during your preflight check would be a serious problem.
casual day in war thunder
I've seen a cac sabre in the flesh, the museum are raaf amberley has one
Interestingly it survived bieng an accedent where the pilot flew through power lines (a power line slid up the armoured glass - shaving the perspex cockpit flat as well as the pilots helmet!)
Please note that the CL-13 was also used by the South African Air Force and there is an excellent example of one at the SAAF Museum at AFB Swartkops near Pretoria
There two examples at AFB Swartkops. Only one is on permanent display.
@@montaguthorne2342 the one is still flyable although they won't. The other is looking a little 😢
I have a beautiful photo of it. I just don't know how to post it here
Fear not, 361 is currently under static restoration. You can follow the project through the SAAF Museum Facebook page.
@@montaguthorne2342 ok I'll have a look at it next flying day
I like the F-86K, the German version of the F-86D with 20mm cannons instead of the silly rocket tray.
Best looking jet aircraft ever!
Prop planes: P51D Mustang, F4U Corsair.
At one time Canada was very good at taking existing products and making them better. Not sure when or why it all went sideways.
The fasted and most capable Sabre was the Australian CAC 27 with the Rolls Royce Avon and about a 80% rebuild. What most people don't consider that the main advantage the Sabre had over the Mig 15 was that the Sabre had a gun radar.
The Mark 6 was superior.
American Sabres had gun radars long before Australian firms were licensed to manufacture their Sabre variants.
Some day you have to get into a CF-100 Canuck.
My 9.0 PTSD is firing up like crazy
@@literallynobody1515 ah, I see you are a man of culture as well
Thanks for supporting the 2and900's channel
*Plays german hangar music in the background
4:59 i like the :( on the back of the cockpit
Beautiful Aircraft.
Great video 👍
Great work !
Your walk around shows a Mark 5. The 6 had no wing fences and had automatically controlled leading edge flaps.
"today we're looking at a north american classic"
*F14 sitting in the background screeching Top Gun Theme*
Uh you mean the very American Mig-29? There are no F14s in any museum in Germany
That’s a Soviet era Mig29. Remember the Soviets provided former East Germany with their planes. After German reunification their Air Force had lots of them.
Besides, the F14 was created by Grumman, not North American Aviation =P
Bruh. Big fail. That's a MiG-29 that the Luftwaffe took over after Germany reunited in 1989. Germany never had any F-14s. ;-)
I wouldn't be a bit surprised that for an aircraft to get into that museum, it had to have served in the German Air Force... F-14 indeed!
I loved this one
DUDE! Loved the music!
excellent video however , at onepoint the luftwaffe sabre he wasstanding in front of hecreffered to it as a Mk6 but with bthe wing gates it is a Mk5, both evcelent aircrsaft in their day
It doesn't bother me if you don't get into the cockpit seat, if that just gives me more storytelling and analysis.
All saber pilots went right to left, you went left to right.
this plane looks like a Mk.5 more than the Mk.6, look the wings
Canada was a serious country then ... with 2 aircraft carriers (that's TWO).....
So true so sad .
Oh, yes! The good old days. What bullshit. Just what would be do with 2 ... TWO ... aircraft carriers, today? Fight more American wars and cause more dreadful, futile suffering and chaos? And get more young Canadian soldiers and sailors killed and maimed? Would that make Canada a serious country? We proudly and capably fought and helped win two world wars and armed ourselves to the teeth for the cold one that followed. That's why we had aircraft carriers, etc., way back when. By the grace of God, the cold one never went hot, because if it had, hundreds of millions would have perished on all sides and civilization would likely have been destroyed - and FIFTY Canadian aircraft carriers wouldn't have changed a thing.
My dad flew the fantastic Canadair Sabre Mk. 6, by the way. I was born on an RCAF base in France. 441 Squadron. Marville.
3:05 'off-shoot'. 😉
Can you do a MIG-21 inside the cockpit??
Already filmed, will come out soonTM
So no CAC sabre , better engines and better guns . Edit mentioned at end .
Apparently, a USAF pilot was visiting a Quebec based RCAF squadron equipped with Mk 6's. Offered a flight in one, and assured he'd be impressed, he took off and pushed the throttle WFO. The rapidity of the acceleration made him think he had a runaway engine and he ejected!
Don't know if this is true.
story has been told for over 50 years
Would have been nice if you actually got in the cockpit like the title says. This is just a walk around.
That's Can-ad-air.
@Johan Jacobs You must be Scottish.
Up thrust up fuel comp. Down rad . Sounds familiar.
What's that red tube at the tail?
Sabre Drain - it's there to dump any overflow fuel (say when transferring fuel from the drop tanks to a tank that's too full to hold the transferred fuel) safely overboard.
I wonder if there exists operational Canadair Sabre as of 2020 ?
Nothing was better than the CAC Avon Sabre 😎
F-22 Raptor: vastly better. F-16 Viper: vastly better. F-15 Eagle: vastly better.
@@Trev0r98 irrelevant in the 50'5/60's child
I believe in the sabre preflight check those air brakes should be completely open and the hydraulic lines checked for leaks ect. The close function check should be done with engine running and rpm increases to ground safe I'll go get my sabre manual and see if I can give you guys page numbers.
Yup, the air brakes are generally fully open during the check. What they shouldn't be is half-ajar as shown here, however,
@@MilitaryAviationHistory very true, thank you sir!
Shannonnezul A Sabre with power off, and no hydraulic pressure, will have the speedbrakes and the wheel well doors hanging open. The'll close when the pressure comes up. Stay clear of the speedbrakes - they slam shut fast enough to turn a hand into mincemeat.
So where the inside the cockpit portion of the video???
Quick question: what's the red thing poking out of the fuselage @17:52? Flare dispenser or something like that?
There is nothing at 17:52 or 7:52 or even 1:52, I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing poking out of the fuselage of the normal F-86 is the fuel jettison pipe ahead of the exhaust on the port side. Which I see is red on this plane in the shot at 9:20. So maybe that is what you are talking about.
What was the source of the radiation in the cockpit? Is it just the radium in the dials or something else?
Besucht mal das National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola
SoonTM
Should’ve called it “outside the cockpit”
"The slats were put back on the wings where they belonged".
I dont think the CL13mk5 has wing slats at 7:37
A fav subject..
So which one of the 4 was the Canadian Sword?
At your 11:25 you show (Kph ) thousand Per Hour ) 1,000 what per hour?
You missed the meter. km
I do love seeing this as posted speed on the highways.
CanaDare not Canada-Air
There is a flying Mig-15 at my nearby airport that you can book a flight in.
Cockpit Drain Plug sounds.... interesting?
Radiation from instruments glow in the dark to harm a casual contact is abit over done in my personal opinion.
Sharpest Sabre in the sky? the CAC-27 Avon Sabre might have somthing to say about that.
This must have been a later sabre as it doesn't have leading edge slats????? I think I have that right.????
I noticed that as well. There are indeed none.
you should call episodes that don't feature the cockpit "outside the cockpit"
Inside the cockpit. When? 14 minutes of everything else
What's the story with the mig-15 emitting radiation from the cockpit??
Nobody ever called it a CL-13
what is the word uboat captains are called? i try to use google translate to find it but nothing works.
They are called "dead".
Korvettenkapitan?
What's the closing credits candy this time?
I think they were cough drops
@@MilitaryAviationHistory Back in boot camp we used to eat those like candy because we could get those but not real candy.
Irradiated cockpits??
1.inside a zero.
2.inside a blackbird
3.inside mig 29
4. inside a white swan
5. inside blackhawk