Pt3 - a match race between SYT and a filly (granted a terrific one) stepping out of division. Ed Dunlop is one of my favorite trainers as he is willing to send his horses anywhere and against the best competition. The Snow Fairy people should be given some sort of prize for going to Ireland to save this race. - Finally, as for SYT, if they want to try the BCC this is the year because its at Churchill Downs; my only concern for the Arc he's mature now and getting heavier.
Hardly anybody realises that the horse in 4th place in this race is Dan Excel,So You Think beat him by a country mile here,Dan Excel would later become a Champions Mile winner in Hong Kong and a Singapore Cup winner. Hard to believe people could still think that SYT was overrated when he destroyed a multiple international winning group one horse by a street in this race So You Think was a true champion.
+potatoncarrots , I totally agree, and lest we forget So You Think beat the same Snow Fairy that would come back to Leopardstown the next season and gallop St Nicholas Abbey & Nathaniel off their feet in this same race.
Agreed. I'm yet to see a horse in the modern era set a task like SYT was in the 2011-12 season. In a 12 month period he raced 11 times. After this race (5th up) he ran 4th in the fastest Arc in history selling pies from the car park, backed up 2 weeks later and was very dour in the British Champion Stakes when second to CDA. Then ran in the BCC at Churchill Downs (would have lapped them in the turf race), was given a brief let up and ran 4th in the pointless DWC before going back to the UK for 2 G1 wins. If only they'd have been as testing with Frankel. Maybe a Grand National? ;)
GBeret83 Agreed, and the only time snow fairy beat him was in the arc when he was ridden like a dog. The only horse in that race to take ground off danedream and she broke the track record. If he was on the pace where he liked it, she never would have got past him.
@bgardiner3354 and if you look at SYT's career as a whole: he was stretched out to 2400m (4th in an Arc) and further out to 3200m (3rd in a Melbourne Cup), he raced on turf, dirt and tapeta, he races in 6 countries - Australia, Ireland, England, France, Dubai and the USA. He is the ONLY horse in the history of horse racing to win five Group 1 races in each hemisphere. A world class horse who raced in a strong era in terms of opposition/depth in numbers.
IMO, the most worthy field that SYT had ever faced against was the Champion Stakes at Ascot in mid-October, instead of this Irish counterpart, before heading to the US to run on the surface he had never been. SYT was just narrowly beaten by the French Cirrus Des Aigles there, but he managed to finish second, ahead of other mutiple G1 winning opponents. By the way, Dunboyne Express, the one finished fourth here, would later become Dan Excel in Hong Kong to win the Champions Mile and Singapore International Cup (winning twice).
@vvssitic Think is a champ. Two questions - is he as good as he was, and can he handle the dirt? The other big question is "how good is the Grace?". I backed Think in the Arc, but might go for the Grace in the Classic. I have seen both Fager and Think. I do reckon that Fager was a better one. What do the Americans out there think.
What a great race!! I thought SYT would win this race. But I also suspected SF would go much closer this time than she did in the Eclipse. I had a hunch she'd be at peak level, this being her 3rd start of the season. To my eye, I think SF ran as well in this race as she did against the boys in the H.K. Cup. She just didn't have to face SYT at Sha Tin. Coolmore's a very business minded operation. So I think they'll be looking for maximum stud value out of SYT now.......contd......
@guitarlegend32 ..I stand by my post..Your opinion of English racing is EXTREMELY over inflated..Send Frankel down here if you guys think he is that good..Until then,in the eyes of every where bar England,Frankel is a flat track bully too scared to leave his comfort zone..And Galileo was a failure at stud in Australia..
@GBeret83 I agree that Arc would be a bad move for SYT, I think Coolmore as a wealth of middle distances horses and may feel it would be a wise move to take Frankel on, the reason being Frankel is already rated above SYT and will attract a lot of Mares when he goes to stud, if Coolmore does not beat him or buy him then Frankel will drag revenue away from Coolmore, as he will be one of the most sort after colts at stud. I feel this maybe the reason why Coolmore are thinking of taking him on.
I think O'Brien new that SYT ran in the MC, he was just saying he as not won over 1m1/2 or further. the MC is a Handicap and seldom attracts the best of the European horses. American won it last year that tells you all you need to know. SYT as got to be better at a 1m1/2 than at 1m1/4 as he is taking on horses that will improve for the step up in trip and for horses like Snow Fairy and Workforce the step up in trip will suit them, but WF may not be as good this year.
Food for thought? SYT didn't show the kind of acceleration on dirt that he's shown on turf. But he was by no means disgraced in the BC Classic either. Knowing that good turf horses often have success racing on synthetic surfaces, I wonder if Ballydoyle might send SYT to Meydan to have a crack at the Dubai World Cup on the tapeta? They did send Cape Blanco last season, and I think the race and surface would suite SYT down to the ground. I could see him doing just as well as Cape Blanco did. TJMO.
I've read a lot of comments saying SYT is over-hyped. Perhaps. But not overrated. I'll take this horse's underachievement's any time. 3 G1 stakes wins in his first season in Europe, and I think he has a very realistic chance of still winning the BC Classic in America still yet. Plus 2 G1 2nd's at Ascot. Beaten less than a half-length in both. Plus an Arc 4th. Lest we forget, Danedream set a track record in the Arc and Cirrus Des Aigles a track record in the Champion Stakes in 2 of his losses.
Aidan O'Brien has wanted to win the B.C. Classic for a long time. He's come close with Giant's Causeway and Henrythenavigator. But still has never won a Classic. IMO, SYT could absolutely win this year's Classic for Ballydoyle. 2011's been a very weak year for American racing. No standout older horses at all, and a very weak crop of 3yr.old's. Even on dirt, I think he'd gallop the American horses off of their feet at 10f. I just don't believe they'd have an answer for SYT speed over 1-1/4. TJMO.
@ASupremeOwl, SYT has no business racing Frankel at a mile. If SSB can bury him at 8f, so can Frankel. I wouldn't mind seeing SYT in the Arc. But that would be an awfully tough race to be trying 12f for the first time. I think they'll come to the conclusion the G1 Champion Stakes at 10f is his best option in Europe. Then I believe they'll send him to the Breeders Cup in Nov. He's got an automatic berth for the B.C. Turf. But the Classic looks easy pickings for a horse like SYT this year, IMO.
@kelletman, The story that came out this morning on Racing Post's web-site, saying that O'Brien is considering running against Frankel in the Q.E.II Stakes at Ascot is total PR propaganda by Coolmore, IMO. SYT is a middle distance horse, not a miler. There's no way O'Brien will risk SYT potentially being buried at a mile by Frankel when he on the same day, he can go the G1 Champion Stakes over 10f, be race favorite, and likely win that race. My gut says Champion Stakes-B.C.Classic for SYT? JMO.
I couldn't help but to shake my head when I saw the PR bullshit pulled by Coolmore on Monday morning's Racing Post web-site. Saying that SYT may take on Frankel over a mile in the Q.E.II. I'm a huge fan of SYT. But this horse is a middle distance horse. He's not a miler. There's no way that O'Brien is going to chance SYT very likely being beaten by Frankel at a mile in the Q.E.II, when on the same card, he knows that SYT can in all likelihood beat the Champion Stakes field at 10f.......contd....
Can't say I blame Dunlop for deciding to take a crack at the Arc with Snow Fairy. She's good races against the boys over 10f in the Hong Kong Cup and Irish Champion Stakes. But the most impressive performances, arguably, of Snow Fairy's career have been the G1 Queen Elizabeth Commemorative Cup in Japan over 11f, and the G1 Irish Oaks at the Curragh over 12f. She's got good 10f speed. But the further she goes toward 12f, the better she seems to get, IMO.
For that very reason, I expect Coolmore to pass on the Cox Plate and Melbourne Cup, and go either Champion Stakes or Arc in October, and Breeders Cup in November. I think many feel SYT already proven all he has to in the southern hemisphere. For this win, he get's an automatic berth for the B.C. Turf. But I'm hoping they consider the Classic instead? I also see no reason he shouldn't go to the Arc? I think he'll get 12f, and how many better middle distance horses in Europe are there than SYT?JMO
Bake it, broil it, fry it, or fix it up anyway you like? So You Think is the most talented middle distance turf horse racing in Europe. Period. I don't understand how anyone that watched him beaten just a hair over 3 length's at 2 miles in the Melbourne Cup could believe that 1-1/2 at Longchamp for the Arc isn't within this horse's ability? JMO.
@kelletman, I heard O'Brien make that comment on this video. That SYT hasn't raced beyond 10f yet. Actually, what I took out of that comment by O'Brien was him meaning that SYT hasn't raced beyond 10f yet in Europe. You can most definitely believe that Aidan O'Brien knows that SYT ran in last year's Melbourne Cup over 3200 meters.
The last time I saw SYT race at a mile at G1 level, Starspangledbanner absolutely thrashed him in the Caufield Guineas. I'd like to see SYT race in the Arc. But my gut says that Coolmore will take the easier European option for him and go to the Champion Stakes. Then they'll hope for a big result out of SYT at the Breeders Cup. Like a Classic win, perhaps?? JMO.
Does anyone know what weight SYT will carry in the Arc? He carried 60.5kg when he won the Eclipse - a mighty effort - but if he has to carry a big weight for an extra 400m I doubt he'll hang on.
Snow Fairy is not as good as she was and even at her best would have trouble beating So You Think. Snow Fairy vs Cape Blanco over either distance would be interesting... The fairy would toil behind him...
Anyone seen what Cape Blanco has done in USA recently? Man O War stakes and Arlington Million? over $1,500,000 in prize money? BC Turf certainty if he runs.
@Horrie1970 You say that Frankel is "too scared to leave his comfort zone". You do realise that it is not Frankel himself who decides which races to run in????
@vvssitic How many American horses have succeded in Europe? See Ravens Pass? See Goldikova? See Conduit? See Cape Blanco? or even So You Thinks Sire High Chapparel just to name a few of the Europen winners. You Americans have never won a big race in Europe, yet we win loads in America every year. Cape Blanco, Treasure Beach and Together have already won G1s in America this year, whilst it took a European horse in Goldikova to win 3 Breeders Cups, no American horse has ever done that.
so you think mashed in the best middle distance turf race in the world, all the aussies can dry their tears now, they thouhgt he was the best thing since sliced bread now hes more like mashed potatoes, he will have to tip toe past the bone yard now, or maybe his next apperance will be in tescos in a tin of pedigree chum, anyway they will have to change his name to so you thought !!!!!!!!!!!!.
@PrincessPignatelli LOL so Frankel & SYT are related through bloodlines ofcourse through Nth Dancer (So cute) Plus the owners are still IRE/OZ & trainers IRE/OZ meaning F*** we dont have NO one to blame, what a bummer, I thought AOBrien took all the credit, Sh**t if SYT ,doesnt win , Jockey (My first choice) then trainer, then the 3yr old carrying weight advantage. As a 5 yr old F*** hes gotta be good, I wouldnt put my money on SYT but for a placing.
@SvendBosanvovski I think Black Caviar looks the best sprinter Australia as produced in many a year, Shes certainly one of the best I've seen, I can't wait to see her at Royal Ascot next year. Will be fascinating to see her take Frankel on over 8F, I think over that distance Frankel would win but anything lower and Black Caviar would probably scrape it, Lets be under no illusion Frankel is a very very quick horse. Do You think she stay the trip if upped in distance?
@MrCaspa21 O'Brien always likes to have a pace maker, he like a true run race, he was getting into a lot of flack a few years ago as his pace makers where seemed to be letting his horse through, but then seemed to be closing the gap and looked to be holding other horses up for a few strides, I do not know if this was deliberate or not, but it did not look good, but now he seems to have stopped running so many pace makers and does not get the flack he once got.
@SvendBosanvovski I know all about the times on different tracks and the US handicapper, but the race was run how it was run, if the ICS had been run at a faster pace it may have played into the hands of Snow Fairy. The facts remains, if we were to handicap those 4 races with Famous Name and Sri Putra we would find SYT was running within 2Ib of they last meetings, many horses are suited by a stronger or slower pace,>
@Mummify00 ...group 2 winners.That is remarkable so it is a little puzzling in your reply to @SupremeOwl that you say he's mentioned 'only one class horse that he has beaten'.That is the appeal of him - he's constantly obliterating class animals,not just beating them.I openely admit my ignorance to Black Caviar's opponents but if she's faced the quality Frankel has I would be surprised.
WHY do people bag thoroughbreds regardless of their ability ? He has won 10 of his last 13 starts including 8 at G1 level....statistics of a champion !!! As for below expectations, my opinion is SYT hits the front to early and should be held up longer, utilising his acceleration to maximum effect. It's also a known fact that plenty of horses switch off once they hit the front and this could apply to SYT. Championsproduce a fighting spirit under presure and history showsSYT isno different.
@SvendBosanvovski Famous Name is trained by D K Weld and not O'Brien so you are incorrect, times on different tracks and going vary considerably so as not baring on our discussion, but the horses I have stated have run within 3/4 L of SYT on 4 seperate occashions, that tells you SYT as run within 2Ib of his form with these horses 4 times this year. SYT ran a great race but what you see is so you get. You should stop listening to all the excusses coming out of O'Briens Stable.
@SvendBosanvovski Do not get me wrong, I think SYT is a great horse and I am not knocking him, I rate Snow Fairy very high and like any horse she as to be at the fully fit to do herself justice, what makes great horses is great races and you do not get that running against donkey's, but SYT beat Snow Fairy over his best distance and she was pulling him back fast. I feel Snow Fairy as a great chance of beating SYT over further.
@SvendBosanvovski >it was Rewildings first run for 2 1/2 months Sri Putra finished 6L behind SYT in that race, when SYT beat workforce in the Eclipse Sri Putra only finished 5 1/2 L behind SYT so it was Sri Putra that got better not SYT, or SYT was at his best when Rewilding beat him. on form lines with Sri Putra and Famous Name SYT as run within 3/4 of a length in 4 of his races this year, that is great trainging by O' Brien, but the proof of the pudding is on the track not what is being said.
@SvendBosanvovski O'Brien always talks his horses up it as been going on for years, everybody over here knows that, you can guarantee when the money is down for 1 of O'Briens that the horse is 110% ready. SYT was the shortest priced favourit for the ICS, ever. If you look at the bare form you can see the truth.Famous Name ran within 1/2l of their last meeting. when Rewilding beat SYT It was said SYT once again was not at it's best, but SYT came into that race on the back of two runs in May and>
@GBeret83 - I remember that Emirates Stakes over a mile - He was given a terrible ride by G Boss, which is unusual for that Jockey. I think you can discount the loss in the Caulfield Guineas to Star Spangled Banner - he was very much the juvenile at that stage. I think he's been set for the Arc all along and if he's ridden properly, doesn't get to the front too early and doesn't get crippled by the handicapper he'll do it. I hope he does - then he can come home to Australia.
...consistency of the horse running within 3-4lbs for all the races he has contested but what makes you think he should be awarded a higher rating than Timeforms 133??There is nothing at all to suggest he is any better than an above average group 1 performer which 133 is but 140+? - no way.Therefore why the gushing hyperbole?If you think he's a true great where in the list of champions would you put him?As good as STS?God forbid - as good as Pharlap?List your all-time top 10.Very good,not great.
...a horse has travelled it makes the form better?How?What disadvantage is SYT receiving having now been here 9-10 months,had ages to acclimatise,never been ill,not running on a alien surface,running on conventional tracks and being treated like a king in his stable.How long does he need to be here before it ain't a disadvantage?Nothing he has acheived suggests he's regressed for being here.Yet we are constantly told that a $25 million purchase ain't ever fit?Bollocks.It is commendable the...
@Mummify00 Where the hell did I write that WF is a 'great all-time champion'.He's a very good middle distance horse but is at least 7 - 10 lb below the real 'all-time champions'.Frankel still has a bit to prove YET but I am confident he will given he is staying in training as a 4yo to tackle further distances.Get your facts right before accusing me of something I never wrote.Bafoon.
I agree SYT should go to the BC as it is less demanding than the Arc. two horses have now pushed SYT over 1m1/4, he did stay in the MC but was behind American who would not win a top G1 race in Europe. he was found out by Frankel and I feel SF would have got past him in another few strides, SYT got a few lengths up on her with that burst of his, but SF was pulling him back and back and was finishing the strongest.
@Shakira0806 I haven't really got anything against racing worldwide, I just believe the racing here in Europe is probably the best around it always as been. Coolmore/Godolphin the two biggest breeders clearly think the same aswell. Back to the original point I think SYT should stick to 10F and head to the Champions Stakes at Ascot in October. He won't beat Frankel over 8F the last time I saw him run a mile SYT was run allover by SSB. He may have a chance in the Arc but after watching him in...
@Shakira0806 Im not very bright because I don't agree with you and half the other dimwit Aussies who think So You Think is the next coming when he has to be hard ridden to beat a filly like Snow Fairy who is comfortably beaten everytime she meets Midday I doubt it. So You Think is a good horse but nothing more, He may well win races in Australia over 10F and win them well but in Europe its a different ball game. The horses over here have far more quality IMHO and that's not me being biased...
@Mummify00 You should listen to rcschumann as he is talking a lot of sense, SF was closing SYT down very fast in the last 20 yards, SF is proven in top class G1s over 1m1/2 so will not be stopping at the end of the race unlike SYT who was running out of gas close home, we are not talking about SYT winning a top G1 over a 1m 1/2 not coming 3rd in a big handicap, American won the MC but would not win a top class G1 over 1m1/2 in Europe and was beaten 5 1/2 by Jukebox Jury in a G2 the other week.
@guitarlegend32 lines, The Melborn Cup is a Big handicap and is run in Nov and seldom attracks the best horses from Europe. American won that race last year, but Jukebox Jury beat American by 5 1/2 l in a G2. that proves SYT does not get the trip or SYT would have won the MC easily, SF was closing SYT down fast close home in the ICS and is 110% guaranteed to get 1m 1/2 and could easily come on for the step up in trip, but it is not guaranteed SYT will be better over further.
@guitarlegend32 Snow Fairy may not have to improve to beat SYT as she was closing him down very fast near the finish and the Arc is over SF best trip, but you cannot say SF will not come on again for the race as she proved last year she improved with every race and was at her best in her last race in HK. O'Brien will have had SYT at 110% the betting told you that, he would not risk this horses stud value by running him below his best, and like I have said he always runs within 3Ib of his form >
Anyone watching Frankel win the 2000 Guineas can see he is unbeatable at a mile - simply awesome. But SYT is a mile and a quarter (2000m), mile and a half (2400m) horse. Its hard to make a comparison. It's like a comparison with Black Caviar - who has consistently beaten quality fields in the same manner as Frankel. She is unbeaten up to 1200m and probably wouldn't stay a mile. The next big Aussie horse is Sepoy - be warned he's v good - I'm sure he'll make it over to Ascot in a year or so.
@guitarlegend32 ..Read between the lines mate..You do know what a comparison is don't you??By flat track bully i mean he hasn't left Europe to race..Sure he looks good against his own age & a clearly injured Canford Cliffs in his own back yard..But what has he done outside it??..Again i repeat, your over inflated opinion of English racing is astounding..truly mind boggling..Frankel will only be an English champ until he leaves his comfort zone..SYT has already done it!
@ASupremeOwl I almost feel sorry for them.Do we give a shit how much money a horse wins??Of course not,it's about form not reputation and class not size.Who cares how big he is?That's meaningless.It reminds me of Zenyatta in that the U.S very rarely gets a top notch mare(when we get 5 - 7 a decade).So when one does come along it is blown completely out of the water.Aus has been waiting a fair while for SYT when we get 133 rated horses virtually anually.Not knocking the horse he just ain't great.
@Horrie1970 I could travel half way round the world and acclimatise.What is 'alien' about our courses?And why the obsession with money?The money is in breeding not racing and it makes no difference to multi billionaires what the level of prize money is.STS won £4.5 million ($7 million ish) in 9 races - SYT £3.8 million in 17 races!!!!How is that bad??? It's the day to day money that's poor not the top races.STS would be a better horse if he went to the BC - no he wouldn't have.
@Racingwriter85 One thing you are wrong about is the usage of breeders with SYT.Fact is he is the only horse of any real note that High Chaperral has produced so in a sense he ain't that well bred.His fee will have to be average until his stock sees a racecourse and given the choice of mating with Frankel(who's sire is the top stallion on the planet in Galileo)or SYT I really don't see much of a contest.SYT will be a shuttle stallion who will have great use in Aus but not here.
@Racingwriter85 about at the minute because he would be well and truly found out. Imagine him trying to tackle the likes of Dubai Millenium and Montjeu in there prime. He would have been sent packing back down under with his tail between is legs... Aussie Superstar, Don't make me laugh hard ridden to beat a filly by 1/2l the same filly comfortably beaten by Midday everytime they've met!
@Horrie1970 What makes you think SYT is outside his comfort zone?He has obviously acclimatised well,given easy early races,not losing any weight or becoming ill.He isn't racing on dirt nor bottomless soft going.Look at the races that European horses have won in Dubai,HK,Breeders Cup etc.But it don't mean they should be rated higher for doing it.For example Goldikova has won in America 3 times but it's obvious she ain't as good as Frankel,so why does he have to travel???
@Racingwriter85 One thing that I have to agree about is the early retirement of some of our champs - Frankel will be the exception.But as it is there is far more money in breeding than racing and unfortunately our top breeders aka Coolmore are a bunch of money mental gold diggers who race to breed not breed to race.And on the weight point,do you honestly think 5lb at the end of the season would have made any difference to the likes of STS,DB and Peintre Celebre - no it wouldn't.
@Horrie1970 Why?As I said give me a reason why a horse has to travel to be a great.It's plain obvious that at 1 mile + there aren't horses anywhere on this planet that can compete with the Europeans.Aus sprinters are easily par excellence but American racing this year is woeful.So what's the point in risking anything by going anywhere when the benchmark at this moment in time in Europe.SYT wouldn't be here else.By your reckoning then SYT must be one of the greatest horses of all time??!!!!
@guitarlegend32 ..Nowhere in my post did i say Frankel wasn't a champion..It is obvious to the sane that So You Think is one too..Anyway how many Group 1's has Frankel won outside Europe?I know So You Think has won multiple times in Group 1's worth a lot more money than that offered in English Group 1's..Haters are going to hate,but SYT just keeps on keeping on..Until SYT & Frankel race we can't definitely know who is the better horse,it's only opinions..I'd love to see them race over 2000m..
@rcschumann Got to agree.It's not that we don't think he's a good horse just sick to death of the hyperbole and excuses that surround him.I honestly dread to think what Coolmore would come out with if one day they did manage to get a truely great animal.I think it would put me off racing completely.This isn't a vintage year over middle distances and to even mute taking on Frankel is pathetic and a gimic to try to convince us what 'unbleivable speed' he has! Sad.
...he will race there because he won't but to try and convince breeders of his 'incredible speed'.ALL talk from them is trying to enhance future stallion prospects and has become tedious.This race needed a Midday or Twice Over in it to really evaluate the form as to me I'm sceptical of it.All of a sudden SF is back to her best and is a top middle distance mare.What makes anyone think Midday wouldn't have beat her again as she has the 2 times they've met in the past.No reason at all.
@GBeret83 ...and to me his aura before coming here has been a total anticlimax.I am certain that many Aus fans were hoping for demolition jobs but he's only proven to be a genuine group 1 horse BUT not a STS,Dancing Brave etc.It's that crap that makes O'Brien unpopular in certain racing circles - the gushing praise when it's quite obvious to me he's had better animals in the past including his sire in High Chapperal.The mile race has been muted at Ascot versus Frankel by Magnier - not because...
@GBeret83 Hello Beret.Just how special do you think he is then?It's not that he isn't a good horse,just not a great one.On all known form Nathaniel is the top middle distance horse in Europe,not this fella.SYT hasn't been impressive in any of his genuine group 1 races and does anyone honestly think he's outstanding in having to be hit over 20 times in his last 2 races against again good not great horses.SF is a tough quality mare but are we suggesting it's outstanding form?No it isn't and...
Pt2 - Mr. O'Brien enters the pacemaker (ERRR!) and a horse of the which purpose seemed to be to fill out the field. G1 is suppose to represent the best the sport has, and this is what is shown the public? No wonder its so hard to attract new fans. To someone unfamiliar with the horses it may as well have been the fifth race at Calder. All a race like this does is pad the resume of the horses for breeding purposes, not present good competition. This basically became a match race between -
Pt1 - Thanks to Mr. Ed Dunlop to the owners of Snow Fairy for making something from this race. SYT did the job, nothing special. When Snow Fairy made her run, SYT didn't change leads quickly enough and was hung up. He switched over in time, and with a little prodding held Snow Fairy; good run by the two horses. - But as for the race itself, this is a G1? Really? The Irish Champion Stakes, a 6 horse field with 3 horses, including the overwhelming favorite, coming out of the same barn.
Put this in a different light after seeing Snow Fairy blow past Nathaniel yesterday. OBrien team used same winning tactics but Nathaniel simply not as good as SYT.
@MrCaspa21 witt him and was gaining inch by inch untill the final 100 yards when her stamina kicked in and she started to close him down fast, but the post came in time for SYT, the step up to 1m1/2 maybe a step too far for SYT against proven top class G1 horses at that distance, you are looking for a horse that gets 13F in the Arc so he will not find it easy if he goes there.
@SvendBosanvovski >The jockey new how fit SYT was in the POW and was outstayed by Rewilding, Sri Putra ran better against SYT in the Eclipse than the POW so I do not buy into what O'Brien said about SYT needing the race in the POW, SYT had already had two races in May so was not just fit but was race fit to run in the POW
@MrCaspa21 SYT will not win a strong G1 mile over 1m 1/2 in Europe, he is a great 1m1/4 horse, but Rewilding out stayed him and SF would have in another 100 yards, O'Brian needs to find a soft G1 for him over 1m1/2 or keep him to 1m1/4. The Arc can be won or lost with the draw and is not a soft G1, so he will not go there.
This horse holds its form, but does not improve much, Sri Putra ran it to half a length in both their races and so did Famous Name you also ran to to form with Dunboyn Express in this race, what you see is what you get, he will not beat Snow Fairy over further as she was closing him down fast near the finish and would have got past him in a few more strides
@Horrie1970 Australia horses is well over rated, you have got good sprinters but that is about it, Snow Fairy was closing SYT down fast in the last 10 yards and would have got past it in a matter of strides, she would hang him out to dry over a 1m 1/2 and he should stick to 1m 1/4 as he will get beat over further.
@Horrie1970 Thats easy to answer. The races in Australia are not as prestigious as the races in England/Ireland/France. Why do you think SYT as come here? Winning races in Europe enhances his stud value. Makes me laugh when your all saying the racing is shit here, Why do your best horses seem to travel over here then?
@Racingwriter85 He would tear him another arsehole, It won't happen anywhere its all hype from the masters of it (Coolmore) He will more than likely run in the Champions Stakes at Ascot and will swerve the Arc. If he can't beat SF convincingly then his form is nowhere near good enough to tackle Europes elite. A good horse but nothing more...
Ugh. People are saying that So You Think was 'unimpressive'. Well, let's see, he's fresh from an eight-week spell, certainly not up to his own standards, and yet he still manages to beat a high-quality British mare at the height of her fitness. That's impressive in my book.
@Shakira0806 In the Champions Stakes in Ireland 12F looks to be abit too much for him, SF was catching him with every yard heading towards the line and she ran another blinder did the filly. Anyone think SYT deserves another pop at Australias version of the Northumberland Plate? (Melbourne Cup)
@Mummify00 And what as Black Caviar shown in beating mediocre rivals one after another? At least Frankel as shown as a 3 year old he is the best of his generation and comfortably beaten the best miler in the world at the time (Canford Cliffs) Certainly the best horse about at the moment...
@rcschumann You do not have a clue, Workforce hasn't gone backwards- he just isn't getting the WFA allowances that 3yos do. And if Nathaniel is the "big" contender how come an injured Workforce going off the track managed to get close to him? Dismiss Workforce and SYT for that matter at your peril
@SvendBosanvovski I actually meant to say would be fascinating if Black Caviar took Frankel on over 8F. I know that is never going to happen now... Frankel will be upped to 10F if he stays in training and Black Caviar will probably stay at 5/6F...
@guitarlegend32 Agreed. Racingwriter is just idolising the best horse Aus/NZ as seen in many a time quite embarrasing when you think hes only got a timeform rating of 133. SYT isn't gonna be anywhere near as popular as Galileo/STS/Frankel...
@darwinbhoy - I totally agree with you. If he's ridden as you say only the handicapper will prevent him winning the Arc. Hold him till the furlong post then give him full throttle.
@guitarlegend32 ..As i said OPINIONS..And i rate a horse who can win in BOTH hemispheres above one who has never left home to race,and who's form is against his own age & 1 race at WFA..
donkeys can beat so you think cause hes wank if u want talk about horses i know all top horses and that is not a top horse its bin proven hes bin beat by average joes
@GBeret83 The last I heard was the Mr. Dunlop had revealed that the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe is "under serious consideration". Has he announced a commitment for Snow Fairy?
@Horrie1970 ...came along - so get your facts right before making unfounded accusations.It is a completely unbias association who are respected and knowlageable.
@MrCaspa21 If not for Rewilding, great races are often won in great times, that is often what sets great horses apart from lesser horses, if yo cannot stand the heat then get out of the Kitchen and if you cannot run great times and win then maybe you are not so great after all, the POW was won in a great time and the strongest horse won on the day, if SYT had come from the same postion as Rewilding he would still have lost as the best horse won on the day. SYT got 2L on Snow Fairy and she went >
@trebor2122 Agree Lonhro is a great speciman not to mention a champion in every sense of the word. Not only did he do amazing things on the track but he is now producing that same form at stud. For a great article regarding LONHRO google " Ferrari of a thoroughbred".....written by respected journo Bill Whittaker.
@guitarlegend32 ..SYT is in Europe purely to increase his value at stud..The prizemoney in England is pathetic compared with that in Australia & Asia..Nowhere did i say a horse HAD to travel to be great (you seem to be reading words in my posts that i didn't write),but it ENHANCES a horses greatness by proving itself in conditions outside it's comfort zone..Let's see Frankel outside his comfort zone before giving him ridiculous hyperbole..
@guitarlegend32 ..If you think travelling half way around the world to race on tracks completely foreign to what he encountered in Australia is outside his comfort zone,i hate to think what your definition of that is..Travelling enhances your greatness..SYT has done that..I wonder why Frankel's connections don't travel to Australia to win some decent money if they think he is that good..
Because they knew he wasn't that good and didn't want to Burt's the bubble of illusion to the UK punters about his invincibility. He could have raced sut in the eclipse but didn't, chicken out
@Shakira0806 If you look at the form of all SYT races since he came over here, he as run within 3Ib on each race, just look at the form lines with Sri Putra & Famous Name, Famous Name also ran within 3Ib of his last race with Dunboyne Express. Snow Fairy as improved with every race this year who is to say she will not again.in another few stides she would have closed him down, at 1m 1/2 snow fairy would hang SYT out to dry, he will not run in the Ark.
SYT did run in the Arc and ran 4th, wide gate (14) from 16 runners and was given a terrible ride. He was absolutely flying....really rattling home and ran 4th. With a better ride he finishes top 3, probably places.
He would have loved that battle. So You Think is the best
Snow Fairy was a phenomenal globe-trotting mare. What an attitude to racing. Top top class, bomb proof and a model of consistency.
She was really good Snow Fairy - world class. It took a world class galloper (So You Think) to beat her.
Pt3 - a match race between SYT and a filly (granted a terrific one) stepping out of division. Ed Dunlop is one of my favorite trainers as he is willing to send his horses anywhere and against the best competition. The Snow Fairy people should be given some sort of prize for going to Ireland to save this race. - Finally, as for SYT, if they want to try the BCC this is the year because its at Churchill Downs; my only concern for the Arc he's mature now and getting heavier.
Hardly anybody realises that the horse in 4th place in this race is Dan Excel,So You Think beat him by a country mile here,Dan Excel would later become a Champions Mile winner in Hong Kong and a Singapore Cup winner.
Hard to believe people could still think that SYT was overrated when he destroyed a multiple international winning group one horse by a street in this race
So You Think was a true champion.
+potatoncarrots , I totally agree, and lest we forget So You Think beat the same Snow Fairy that would come back to Leopardstown the next season and gallop St Nicholas Abbey & Nathaniel off their feet in this same race.
Agreed. I'm yet to see a horse in the modern era set a task like SYT was in the 2011-12 season. In a 12 month period he raced 11 times. After this race (5th up) he ran 4th in the fastest Arc in history selling pies from the car park, backed up 2 weeks later and was very dour in the British Champion Stakes when second to CDA. Then ran in the BCC at Churchill Downs (would have lapped them in the turf race), was given a brief let up and ran 4th in the pointless DWC before going back to the UK for 2 G1 wins. If only they'd have been as testing with Frankel. Maybe a Grand National? ;)
Definantly top class.no.doubt about it
GBeret83 Agreed, and the only time snow fairy beat him was in the arc when he was ridden like a dog. The only horse in that race to take ground off danedream and she broke the track record. If he was on the pace where he liked it, she never would have got past him.
@bgardiner3354 and if you look at SYT's career as a whole: he was stretched out to 2400m (4th in an Arc) and further out to 3200m (3rd in a Melbourne Cup), he raced on turf, dirt and tapeta, he races in 6 countries - Australia, Ireland, England, France, Dubai and the USA. He is the ONLY horse in the history of horse racing to win five Group 1 races in each hemisphere. A world class horse who raced in a strong era in terms of opposition/depth in numbers.
IMO, the most worthy field that SYT had ever faced against was the Champion Stakes at Ascot in mid-October, instead of this Irish counterpart, before heading to the US to run on the surface he had never been. SYT was just narrowly beaten by the French Cirrus Des Aigles there, but he managed to finish second, ahead of other mutiple G1 winning opponents. By the way, Dunboyne Express, the one finished fourth here, would later become Dan Excel in Hong Kong to win the Champions Mile and Singapore International Cup (winning twice).
@vvssitic Think is a champ. Two questions - is he as good as he was, and can he handle the dirt? The other big question is "how good is the Grace?". I backed Think in the Arc, but might go for the Grace in the Classic. I have seen both Fager and Think. I do reckon that Fager was a better one. What do the Americans out there think.
What a great race!! I thought SYT would win this race. But I also suspected SF would go much closer this time than she did in the Eclipse. I had a hunch she'd be at peak level, this being her 3rd start of the season. To my eye, I think SF ran as well in this race as she did against the boys in the H.K. Cup. She just didn't have to face SYT at Sha Tin. Coolmore's a very business minded operation. So I think they'll be looking for maximum stud value out of SYT now.......contd......
@guitarlegend32 ..I stand by my post..Your opinion of English racing is EXTREMELY over inflated..Send Frankel down here if you guys think he is that good..Until then,in the eyes of every where bar England,Frankel is a flat track bully too scared to leave his comfort zone..And Galileo was a failure at stud in Australia..
I agree but hey dont hate on the horse its the dicks who control what he does i too do believe frankel would gwt showed up down under
@GBeret83 I agree that Arc would be a bad move for SYT, I think Coolmore as a wealth of middle distances horses and may feel it would be a wise move to take Frankel on, the reason being Frankel is already rated above SYT and will attract a lot of Mares when he goes to stud, if Coolmore does not beat him or buy him then Frankel will drag revenue away from Coolmore, as he will be one of the most sort after colts at stud. I feel this maybe the reason why Coolmore are thinking of taking him on.
He's really looking a lot fitter now, which is great to see. Super run by Snow Fairy too, glad she's getting back to her best.
I think O'Brien new that SYT ran in the MC, he was just saying he as not won over 1m1/2 or further. the MC is a Handicap and seldom attracts the best of the European horses. American won it last year that tells you all you need to know. SYT as got to be better at a 1m1/2 than at 1m1/4 as he is taking on horses that will improve for the step up in trip and for horses like Snow Fairy and Workforce the step up in trip will suit them, but WF may not be as good this year.
Food for thought? SYT didn't show the kind of acceleration on dirt that he's shown on turf. But he was by no means disgraced in the BC Classic either. Knowing that good turf horses often have success racing on synthetic surfaces, I wonder if Ballydoyle might send SYT to Meydan to have a crack at the Dubai World Cup on the tapeta? They did send Cape Blanco last season, and I think the race and surface would suite SYT down to the ground. I could see him doing just as well as Cape Blanco did. TJMO.
I've read a lot of comments saying SYT is over-hyped. Perhaps. But not overrated. I'll take this horse's underachievement's any time. 3 G1 stakes wins in his first season in Europe, and I think he has a very realistic chance of still winning the BC Classic in America still yet. Plus 2 G1 2nd's at Ascot. Beaten less than a half-length in both. Plus an Arc 4th. Lest we forget, Danedream set a track record in the Arc and Cirrus Des Aigles a track record in the Champion Stakes in 2 of his losses.
Aidan O'Brien has wanted to win the B.C. Classic for a long time. He's come close with Giant's Causeway and Henrythenavigator. But still has never won a Classic. IMO, SYT could absolutely win this year's Classic for Ballydoyle. 2011's been a very weak year for American racing. No standout older horses at all, and a very weak crop of 3yr.old's. Even on dirt, I think he'd gallop the American horses off of their feet at 10f. I just don't believe they'd have an answer for SYT speed over 1-1/4. TJMO.
@ASupremeOwl, SYT has no business racing Frankel at a mile. If SSB can bury him at 8f, so can Frankel. I wouldn't mind seeing SYT in the Arc. But that would be an awfully tough race to be trying 12f for the first time. I think they'll come to the conclusion the G1 Champion Stakes at 10f is his best option in Europe. Then I believe they'll send him to the Breeders Cup in Nov. He's got an automatic berth for the B.C. Turf. But the Classic looks easy pickings for a horse like SYT this year, IMO.
@kelletman, The story that came out this morning on Racing Post's web-site, saying that O'Brien is considering running against Frankel in the Q.E.II Stakes at Ascot is total PR propaganda by Coolmore, IMO. SYT is a middle distance horse, not a miler. There's no way O'Brien will risk SYT potentially being buried at a mile by Frankel when he on the same day, he can go the G1 Champion Stakes over 10f, be race favorite, and likely win that race. My gut says Champion Stakes-B.C.Classic for SYT? JMO.
I couldn't help but to shake my head when I saw the PR bullshit pulled by Coolmore on Monday morning's Racing Post web-site. Saying that SYT may take on Frankel over a mile in the Q.E.II. I'm a huge fan of SYT. But this horse is a middle distance horse. He's not a miler. There's no way that O'Brien is going to chance SYT very likely being beaten by Frankel at a mile in the Q.E.II, when on the same card, he knows that SYT can in all likelihood beat the Champion Stakes field at 10f.......contd....
Can't say I blame Dunlop for deciding to take a crack at the Arc with Snow Fairy. She's good races against the boys over 10f in the Hong Kong Cup and Irish Champion Stakes. But the most impressive performances, arguably, of Snow Fairy's career have been the G1 Queen Elizabeth Commemorative Cup in Japan over 11f, and the G1 Irish Oaks at the Curragh over 12f. She's got good 10f speed. But the further she goes toward 12f, the better she seems to get, IMO.
For that very reason, I expect Coolmore to pass on the Cox Plate and Melbourne Cup, and go either Champion Stakes or Arc in October, and Breeders Cup in November. I think many feel SYT already proven all he has to in the southern hemisphere. For this win, he get's an automatic berth for the B.C. Turf. But I'm hoping they consider the Classic instead? I also see no reason he shouldn't go to the Arc? I think he'll get 12f, and how many better middle distance horses in Europe are there than SYT?JMO
Bake it, broil it, fry it, or fix it up anyway you like? So You Think is the most talented middle distance turf horse racing in Europe. Period. I don't understand how anyone that watched him beaten just a hair over 3 length's at 2 miles in the Melbourne Cup could believe that 1-1/2 at Longchamp for the Arc isn't within this horse's ability? JMO.
@kelletman, I heard O'Brien make that comment on this video. That SYT hasn't raced beyond 10f yet. Actually, what I took out of that comment by O'Brien was him meaning that SYT hasn't raced beyond 10f yet in Europe. You can most definitely believe that Aidan O'Brien knows that SYT ran in last year's Melbourne Cup over 3200 meters.
The last time I saw SYT race at a mile at G1 level, Starspangledbanner absolutely thrashed him in the Caufield Guineas. I'd like to see SYT race in the Arc. But my gut says that Coolmore will take the easier European option for him and go to the Champion Stakes. Then they'll hope for a big result out of SYT at the Breeders Cup. Like a Classic win, perhaps?? JMO.
Does anyone know what weight SYT will carry in the Arc? He carried 60.5kg when he won the Eclipse - a mighty effort - but if he has to carry a big weight for an extra 400m I doubt he'll hang on.
The Arc is a WFA race
Snow Fairy is not as good as she was and even at her best would have trouble beating So You Think. Snow Fairy vs Cape Blanco over either distance would be interesting... The fairy would toil behind him...
Anyone seen what Cape Blanco has done in USA recently? Man O War stakes and Arlington Million? over $1,500,000 in prize money? BC Turf certainty if he runs.
@Horrie1970 You say that Frankel is "too scared to leave his comfort zone". You do realise that it is not Frankel himself who decides which races to run in????
@vvssitic How many American horses have succeded in Europe? See Ravens Pass? See Goldikova? See Conduit? See Cape Blanco? or even So You Thinks Sire High Chapparel just to name a few of the Europen winners.
You Americans have never won a big race in Europe, yet we win loads in America every year. Cape Blanco, Treasure Beach and Together have already won G1s in America this year, whilst it took a European horse in Goldikova to win 3 Breeders Cups, no American horse has ever done that.
so you think mashed in the best middle distance turf race in the world, all the aussies can dry their tears now, they thouhgt he was the best thing since sliced bread now hes more like mashed potatoes, he will have to tip toe past the bone yard now, or maybe his next apperance will be in tescos in a tin of pedigree chum, anyway they will have to change his name to so you thought !!!!!!!!!!!!.
@PrincessPignatelli LOL so Frankel & SYT are related through bloodlines ofcourse through Nth Dancer (So cute) Plus the owners are still IRE/OZ & trainers IRE/OZ meaning F*** we dont have NO one to blame, what a bummer, I thought AOBrien took all the credit, Sh**t if SYT ,doesnt win , Jockey (My first choice) then trainer, then the 3yr old carrying weight advantage. As a 5 yr old F*** hes gotta be good, I wouldnt put my money on SYT but for a placing.
@SvendBosanvovski I think Black Caviar looks the best sprinter Australia as produced in many a year, Shes certainly one of the best I've seen, I can't wait to see her at Royal Ascot next year. Will be fascinating to see her take Frankel on over 8F, I think over that distance Frankel would win but anything lower and Black Caviar would probably scrape it, Lets be under no illusion Frankel is a very very quick horse. Do You think she stay the trip if upped in distance?
@MrCaspa21 O'Brien always likes to have a pace maker, he like a true run race, he was getting into a lot of flack a few years ago as his pace makers where seemed to be letting his horse through, but then seemed to be closing the gap and looked to be holding other horses up for a few strides, I do not know if this was deliberate or not, but it did not look good, but now he seems to have stopped running so many pace makers and does not get the flack he once got.
@SvendBosanvovski I know all about the times on different tracks and the US handicapper, but the race was run how it was run, if the ICS had been run at a faster pace it may have played into the hands of Snow Fairy. The facts remains, if we were to handicap those 4 races with Famous Name and Sri Putra we would find SYT was running within 2Ib of they last meetings, many horses are suited by a stronger or slower pace,>
@Mummify00 ...group 2 winners.That is remarkable so it is a little puzzling in your reply to @SupremeOwl that you say he's mentioned 'only one class horse that he has beaten'.That is the appeal of him - he's constantly obliterating class animals,not just beating them.I openely admit my ignorance to Black Caviar's opponents but if she's faced the quality Frankel has I would be surprised.
WHY do people bag thoroughbreds regardless of their ability ? He has won 10 of his last 13 starts including 8 at G1 level....statistics of a champion !!!
As for below expectations, my opinion is SYT hits the front to early and should be held up longer, utilising his acceleration to maximum effect. It's also a known fact that plenty of horses switch off once they hit the front and this could apply to SYT. Championsproduce a fighting spirit under presure and history showsSYT isno different.
@SvendBosanvovski Famous Name is trained by D K Weld and not O'Brien so you are incorrect, times on different tracks and going vary considerably so as not baring on our discussion, but the horses I have stated have run within 3/4 L of SYT on 4 seperate occashions, that tells you SYT as run within 2Ib of his form with these horses 4 times this year. SYT ran a great race but what you see is so you get. You should stop listening to all the excusses coming out of O'Briens Stable.
@SvendBosanvovski Do not get me wrong, I think SYT is a great horse and I am not knocking him, I rate Snow Fairy very high and like any horse she as to be at the fully fit to do herself justice, what makes great horses is great races and you do not get that running against donkey's, but SYT beat Snow Fairy over his best distance and she was pulling him back fast. I feel Snow Fairy as a great chance of beating SYT over further.
@SvendBosanvovski >it was Rewildings first run for 2 1/2 months Sri Putra finished 6L behind SYT in that race, when SYT beat workforce in the Eclipse Sri Putra only finished 5 1/2 L behind SYT so it was Sri Putra that got better not SYT, or SYT was at his best when Rewilding beat him. on form lines with Sri Putra and Famous Name SYT as run within 3/4 of a length in 4 of his races this year, that is great trainging by O' Brien, but the proof of the pudding is on the track not what is being said.
@SvendBosanvovski O'Brien always talks his horses up it as been going on for years, everybody over here knows that, you can guarantee when the money is down for 1 of O'Briens that the horse is 110% ready. SYT was the shortest priced favourit for the ICS, ever. If you look at the bare form you can see the truth.Famous Name ran within 1/2l of their last meeting. when Rewilding beat SYT It was said SYT once again was not at it's best, but SYT came into that race on the back of two runs in May and>
@GBeret83 - I remember that Emirates Stakes over a mile - He was given a terrible ride by G Boss, which is unusual for that Jockey. I think you can discount the loss in the Caulfield Guineas to Star Spangled Banner - he was very much the juvenile at that stage. I think he's been set for the Arc all along and if he's ridden properly, doesn't get to the front too early and doesn't get crippled by the handicapper he'll do it. I hope he does - then he can come home to Australia.
...consistency of the horse running within 3-4lbs for all the races he has contested but what makes you think he should be awarded a higher rating than Timeforms 133??There is nothing at all to suggest he is any better than an above average group 1 performer which 133 is but 140+? - no way.Therefore why the gushing hyperbole?If you think he's a true great where in the list of champions would you put him?As good as STS?God forbid - as good as Pharlap?List your all-time top 10.Very good,not great.
...a horse has travelled it makes the form better?How?What disadvantage is SYT receiving having now been here 9-10 months,had ages to acclimatise,never been ill,not running on a alien surface,running on conventional tracks and being treated like a king in his stable.How long does he need to be here before it ain't a disadvantage?Nothing he has acheived suggests he's regressed for being here.Yet we are constantly told that a $25 million purchase ain't ever fit?Bollocks.It is commendable the...
@Mummify00 Where the hell did I write that WF is a 'great all-time champion'.He's a very good middle distance horse but is at least 7 - 10 lb below the real 'all-time champions'.Frankel still has a bit to prove YET but I am confident he will given he is staying in training as a 4yo to tackle further distances.Get your facts right before accusing me of something I never wrote.Bafoon.
I agree SYT should go to the BC as it is less demanding than the Arc. two horses have now pushed SYT over 1m1/4, he did stay in the MC but was behind American who would not win a top G1 race in Europe. he was found out by Frankel and I feel SF would have got past him in another few strides, SYT got a few lengths up on her with that burst of his, but SF was pulling him back and back and was finishing the strongest.
@Shakira0806 I haven't really got anything against racing worldwide, I just believe the racing here in Europe is probably the best around it always as been. Coolmore/Godolphin the two biggest breeders clearly think the same aswell. Back to the original point I think SYT should stick to 10F and head to the Champions Stakes at Ascot in October. He won't beat Frankel over 8F the last time I saw him run a mile SYT was run allover by SSB. He may have a chance in the Arc but after watching him in...
@Shakira0806 Im not very bright because I don't agree with you and half the other dimwit Aussies who think So You Think is the next coming when he has to be hard ridden to beat a filly like Snow Fairy who is comfortably beaten everytime she meets Midday I doubt it. So You Think is a good horse but nothing more, He may well win races in Australia over 10F and win them well but in Europe its a different ball game. The horses over here have far more quality IMHO and that's not me being biased...
@Mummify00 You should listen to rcschumann as he is talking a lot of sense, SF was closing SYT down very fast in the last 20 yards, SF is proven in top class G1s over 1m1/2 so will not be stopping at the end of the race unlike SYT who was running out of gas close home, we are not talking about SYT winning a top G1 over a 1m 1/2 not coming 3rd in a big handicap, American won the MC but would not win a top class G1 over 1m1/2 in Europe and was beaten 5 1/2 by Jukebox Jury in a G2 the other week.
@guitarlegend32 lines, The Melborn Cup is a Big handicap and is run in Nov and seldom attracks the best horses from Europe. American won that race last year, but Jukebox Jury beat American by 5 1/2 l in a G2. that proves SYT does not get the trip or SYT would have won the MC easily, SF was closing SYT down fast close home in the ICS and is 110% guaranteed to get 1m 1/2 and could easily come on for the step up in trip, but it is not guaranteed SYT will be better over further.
@guitarlegend32 Snow Fairy may not have to improve to beat SYT as she was closing him down very fast near the finish and the Arc is over SF best trip, but you cannot say SF will not come on again for the race as she proved last year she improved with every race and was at her best in her last race in HK. O'Brien will have had SYT at 110% the betting told you that, he would not risk this horses stud value by running him below his best, and like I have said he always runs within 3Ib of his form >
Anyone watching Frankel win the 2000 Guineas can see he is unbeatable at a mile - simply awesome. But SYT is a mile and a quarter (2000m), mile and a half (2400m) horse. Its hard to make a comparison.
It's like a comparison with Black Caviar - who has consistently beaten quality fields in the same manner as Frankel. She is unbeaten up to 1200m and probably wouldn't stay a mile.
The next big Aussie horse is Sepoy - be warned he's v good - I'm sure he'll make it over to Ascot in a year or so.
@guitarlegend32 ..Read between the lines mate..You do know what a comparison is don't you??By flat track bully i mean he hasn't left Europe to race..Sure he looks good against his own age & a clearly injured Canford Cliffs in his own back yard..But what has he done outside it??..Again i repeat, your over inflated opinion of English racing is astounding..truly mind boggling..Frankel will only be an English champ until he leaves his comfort zone..SYT has already done it!
@ASupremeOwl I almost feel sorry for them.Do we give a shit how much money a horse wins??Of course not,it's about form not reputation and class not size.Who cares how big he is?That's meaningless.It reminds me of Zenyatta in that the U.S very rarely gets a top notch mare(when we get 5 - 7 a decade).So when one does come along it is blown completely out of the water.Aus has been waiting a fair while for SYT when we get 133 rated horses virtually anually.Not knocking the horse he just ain't great.
@Horrie1970 I could travel half way round the world and acclimatise.What is 'alien' about our courses?And why the obsession with money?The money is in breeding not racing and it makes no difference to multi billionaires what the level of prize money is.STS won £4.5 million ($7 million ish) in 9 races - SYT £3.8 million in 17 races!!!!How is that bad??? It's the day to day money that's poor not the top races.STS would be a better horse if he went to the BC - no he wouldn't have.
@Racingwriter85 One thing you are wrong about is the usage of breeders with SYT.Fact is he is the only horse of any real note that High Chaperral has produced so in a sense he ain't that well bred.His fee will have to be average until his stock sees a racecourse and given the choice of mating with Frankel(who's sire is the top stallion on the planet in Galileo)or SYT I really don't see much of a contest.SYT will be a shuttle stallion who will have great use in Aus but not here.
@Racingwriter85 about at the minute because he would be well and truly found out. Imagine him trying to tackle the likes of Dubai Millenium and Montjeu in there prime. He would have been sent packing back down under with his tail between is legs... Aussie Superstar, Don't make me laugh hard ridden to beat a filly by 1/2l the same filly comfortably beaten by Midday everytime they've met!
@Horrie1970 What makes you think SYT is outside his comfort zone?He has obviously acclimatised well,given easy early races,not losing any weight or becoming ill.He isn't racing on dirt nor bottomless soft going.Look at the races that European horses have won in Dubai,HK,Breeders Cup etc.But it don't mean they should be rated higher for doing it.For example Goldikova has won in America 3 times but it's obvious she ain't as good as Frankel,so why does he have to travel???
@Racingwriter85 One thing that I have to agree about is the early retirement of some of our champs - Frankel will be the exception.But as it is there is far more money in breeding than racing and unfortunately our top breeders aka Coolmore are a bunch of money mental gold diggers who race to breed not breed to race.And on the weight point,do you honestly think 5lb at the end of the season would have made any difference to the likes of STS,DB and Peintre Celebre - no it wouldn't.
@Horrie1970 Why?As I said give me a reason why a horse has to travel to be a great.It's plain obvious that at 1 mile + there aren't horses anywhere on this planet that can compete with the Europeans.Aus sprinters are easily par excellence but American racing this year is woeful.So what's the point in risking anything by going anywhere when the benchmark at this moment in time in Europe.SYT wouldn't be here else.By your reckoning then SYT must be one of the greatest horses of all time??!!!!
@guitarlegend32 ..Nowhere in my post did i say Frankel wasn't a champion..It is obvious to the sane that So You Think is one too..Anyway how many Group 1's has Frankel won outside Europe?I know So You Think has won multiple times in Group 1's worth a lot more money than that offered in English Group 1's..Haters are going to hate,but SYT just keeps on keeping on..Until SYT & Frankel race we can't definitely know who is the better horse,it's only opinions..I'd love to see them race over 2000m..
@rcschumann Got to agree.It's not that we don't think he's a good horse just sick to death of the hyperbole and excuses that surround him.I honestly dread to think what Coolmore would come out with if one day they did manage to get a truely great animal.I think it would put me off racing completely.This isn't a vintage year over middle distances and to even mute taking on Frankel is pathetic and a gimic to try to convince us what 'unbleivable speed' he has! Sad.
...he will race there because he won't but to try and convince breeders of his 'incredible speed'.ALL talk from them is trying to enhance future stallion prospects and has become tedious.This race needed a Midday or Twice Over in it to really evaluate the form as to me I'm sceptical of it.All of a sudden SF is back to her best and is a top middle distance mare.What makes anyone think Midday wouldn't have beat her again as she has the 2 times they've met in the past.No reason at all.
@GBeret83 ...and to me his aura before coming here has been a total anticlimax.I am certain that many Aus fans were hoping for demolition jobs but he's only proven to be a genuine group 1 horse BUT not a STS,Dancing Brave etc.It's that crap that makes O'Brien unpopular in certain racing circles - the gushing praise when it's quite obvious to me he's had better animals in the past including his sire in High Chapperal.The mile race has been muted at Ascot versus Frankel by Magnier - not because...
@GBeret83 Hello Beret.Just how special do you think he is then?It's not that he isn't a good horse,just not a great one.On all known form Nathaniel is the top middle distance horse in Europe,not this fella.SYT hasn't been impressive in any of his genuine group 1 races and does anyone honestly think he's outstanding in having to be hit over 20 times in his last 2 races against again good not great horses.SF is a tough quality mare but are we suggesting it's outstanding form?No it isn't and...
Pt2 - Mr. O'Brien enters the pacemaker (ERRR!) and a horse of the which purpose seemed to be to fill out the field. G1 is suppose to represent the best the sport has, and this is what is shown the public? No wonder its so hard to attract new fans. To someone unfamiliar with the horses it may as well have been the fifth race at Calder. All a race like this does is pad the resume of the horses for breeding purposes, not present good competition. This basically became a match race between -
Pt1 - Thanks to Mr. Ed Dunlop to the owners of Snow Fairy for making something from this race. SYT did the job, nothing special. When Snow Fairy made her run, SYT didn't change leads quickly enough and was hung up. He switched over in time, and with a little prodding held Snow Fairy; good run by the two horses. - But as for the race itself, this is a G1? Really? The Irish Champion Stakes, a 6 horse field with 3 horses, including the overwhelming favorite, coming out of the same barn.
Put this in a different light after seeing Snow Fairy blow past Nathaniel yesterday. OBrien team used same winning tactics but Nathaniel simply not as good as SYT.
@MrCaspa21 witt him and was gaining inch by inch untill the final 100 yards when her stamina kicked in and she started to close him down fast, but the post came in time for SYT, the step up to 1m1/2 maybe a step too far for SYT against proven top class G1 horses at that distance, you are looking for a horse that gets 13F in the Arc so he will not find it easy if he goes there.
@SvendBosanvovski >The jockey new how fit SYT was in the POW and was outstayed by Rewilding, Sri Putra ran better against SYT in the Eclipse than the POW so I do not buy into what O'Brien said about SYT needing the race in the POW, SYT had already had two races in May so was not just fit but was race fit to run in the POW
@MrCaspa21 SYT will not win a strong G1 mile over 1m 1/2 in Europe, he is a great 1m1/4 horse, but Rewilding out stayed him and SF would have in another 100 yards, O'Brian needs to find a soft G1 for him over 1m1/2 or keep him to 1m1/4. The Arc can be won or lost with the draw and is not a soft G1, so he will not go there.
This horse holds its form, but does not improve much, Sri Putra ran it to half a length in both their races and so did Famous Name you also ran to to form with Dunboyn Express in this race, what you see is what you get, he will not beat Snow Fairy over further as she was closing him down fast near the finish and would have got past him in a few more strides
@Horrie1970 Australia horses is well over rated, you have got good sprinters but that is about it, Snow Fairy was closing SYT down fast in the last 10 yards and would have got past it in a matter of strides, she would hang him out to dry over a 1m 1/2 and he should stick to 1m 1/4 as he will get beat over further.
@Horrie1970 Thats easy to answer. The races in Australia are not as prestigious as the races in England/Ireland/France. Why do you think SYT as come here? Winning races in Europe enhances his stud value. Makes me laugh when your all saying the racing is shit here, Why do your best horses seem to travel over here then?
@Racingwriter85 He would tear him another arsehole, It won't happen anywhere its all hype from the masters of it (Coolmore) He will more than likely run in the Champions Stakes at Ascot and will swerve the Arc. If he can't beat SF convincingly then his form is nowhere near good enough to tackle Europes elite. A good horse but nothing more...
Ugh. People are saying that So You Think was 'unimpressive'. Well, let's see, he's fresh from an eight-week spell, certainly not up to his own standards, and yet he still manages to beat a high-quality British mare at the height of her fitness. That's impressive in my book.
@Shakira0806 In the Champions Stakes in Ireland 12F looks to be abit too much for him, SF was catching him with every yard heading towards the line and she ran another blinder did the filly. Anyone think SYT deserves another pop at Australias version of the Northumberland Plate? (Melbourne Cup)
@Mummify00 And what as Black Caviar shown in beating mediocre rivals one after another? At least Frankel as shown as a 3 year old he is the best of his generation and comfortably beaten the best miler in the world at the time (Canford Cliffs) Certainly the best horse about at the moment...
@rcschumann You do not have a clue, Workforce hasn't gone backwards- he just isn't getting the WFA allowances that 3yos do. And if Nathaniel is the "big" contender how come an injured Workforce going off the track managed to get close to him? Dismiss Workforce and SYT for that matter at your peril
@SvendBosanvovski I actually meant to say would be fascinating if Black Caviar took Frankel on over 8F. I know that is never going to happen now... Frankel will be upped to 10F if he stays in training and Black Caviar will probably stay at 5/6F...
@guitarlegend32 Agreed. Racingwriter is just idolising the best horse Aus/NZ as seen in many a time quite embarrasing when you think hes only got a timeform rating of 133. SYT isn't gonna be anywhere near as popular as Galileo/STS/Frankel...
@darwinbhoy - I totally agree with you. If he's ridden as you say only the handicapper will prevent him winning the Arc. Hold him till the furlong post then give him full throttle.
@guitarlegend32 ..As i said OPINIONS..And i rate a horse who can win in BOTH hemispheres above one who has never left home to race,and who's form is against his own age & 1 race at WFA..
donkeys can beat so you think cause hes wank if u want talk about horses i know all top horses and that is not a top horse its bin proven hes bin beat by average joes
@GBeret83 The last I heard was the Mr. Dunlop had revealed that the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe is "under serious consideration". Has he announced a commitment for Snow Fairy?
@Horrie1970 ...came along - so get your facts right before making unfounded accusations.It is a completely unbias association who are respected and knowlageable.
we have not seen the winner of the arc in this race! 1 groups in Europe now become ridiculous starting 5-6, including two 2 or 3 o'brien lol!
@jannytwoexx aus racing is not provincial - some of the richest races are here - and they come from all over the world to take part.
@MrCaspa21 If not for Rewilding, great races are often won in great times, that is often what sets great horses apart from lesser horses, if yo cannot stand the heat then get out of the Kitchen and if you cannot run great times and win then maybe you are not so great after all, the POW was won in a great time and the strongest horse won on the day, if SYT had come from the same postion as Rewilding he would still have lost as the best horse won on the day. SYT got 2L on Snow Fairy and she went >
Does he ever switch to his right lead in races?
Phar Lap was a freak, this blokes a monster. Even if he was spared the wip, there was no way the little mare would get past him.
Did that tool really just say he hasn't ran over 2000m? This bloke is a tool, he doesn't even know the history of his own horse.
@thomasishere09 Sorry mate... I was taking the piss. A moment of weakness.
@trebor2122 Agree Lonhro is a great speciman not to mention a champion in every sense of the word. Not only did he do amazing things on the track but he is now producing that same form at stud. For a great article regarding LONHRO google " Ferrari of a thoroughbred".....written by respected journo Bill Whittaker.
Great race from Snow Fairy. Another furlong and she would have caught him. Snow fairy seems to be ready for the BC. Peaking at the right time.
dont think hes anything special, Falbrav would have beaten him
lol the aussie champ brains em again.whos next he could of beat frankel same day next race
youve probly just watched the prince of wales race lol he didnt exactly beat much did he
@guitarlegend32 ..SYT is in Europe purely to increase his value at stud..The prizemoney in England is pathetic compared with that in Australia & Asia..Nowhere did i say a horse HAD to travel to be great (you seem to be reading words in my posts that i didn't write),but it ENHANCES a horses greatness by proving itself in conditions outside it's comfort zone..Let's see Frankel outside his comfort zone before giving him ridiculous hyperbole..
@thomasishere09 last years race formwise doesnt compare, where did workforce finish?
A great renewal there between Snow Fairy and the actual winner, So You Think.
@guitarlegend32 ..If you think travelling half way around the world to race on tracks completely foreign to what he encountered in Australia is outside his comfort zone,i hate to think what your definition of that is..Travelling enhances your greatness..SYT has done that..I wonder why Frankel's connections don't travel to Australia to win some decent money if they think he is that good..
Because they knew he wasn't that good and didn't want to Burt's the bubble of illusion to the UK punters about his invincibility. He could have raced sut in the eclipse but didn't, chicken out
@Shakira0806 If you look at the form of all SYT races since he came over here, he as run within 3Ib on each race,
just look at the form lines with Sri Putra & Famous Name, Famous Name also ran within 3Ib of his last race with Dunboyne Express. Snow Fairy as improved with every race this year who is to say she will not again.in another few stides she would have closed him down, at 1m 1/2 snow fairy would hang SYT out to dry, he will not run in the Ark.
SYT did run in the Arc and ran 4th, wide gate (14) from 16 runners and was given a terrible ride. He was absolutely flying....really rattling home and ran 4th. With a better ride he finishes top 3, probably places.