When Your Back Is Up Against The Wall... In Your Home Theater How Can You Surround Sound?
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2022
- If you are the person who has a living space where your seating is up against the wall, you too are likely wondering is going beyond 5.1 even worth it? Chief Product Officer Andrew Welker puts this FAQ front and center this week. (see what we did there? 🙃)
First off, most of us don't have a single-purpose home theater, or the ideal room. We live in our living spaces, and have multi-purpose lives and rooms. This means you have to be careful with the set up, your choice of rears and surrounds, and how you place them.
"When Your Back Is Up Against The Wall?" is the latest chapter in our playlist "Audio Tech Tips And How To Videos". • Audio Tech Tips And Ho...
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Thank you for addressing what most of us need to consider!
You're very welcome.
First thing that came up when I searched and got all the information I needed to explore further.
Thank you kindly.
Thank you for the video! I appreciate your info.
In my 7.2 system as my seating was with the wall I mounted the rear speakers hig on the wall. And the effect is fantastic.
Exactly the info I needed. Great video.
I fully agree. Thank you so much for your insight and advice.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for taking the time to comment!
Informative; thank you!
good info! 👍
I was thinking about this exact predicament I am in and Axiom Audio’s video came up on my suggested feed. Very informative video. Thank you.
The suggested feed thing is kind of creeping me out. I am keying in on the fact you said were thinking it.
I was cleaning up my garage wearing earbuds and listening to pandora music; I had a mattress i needed to get rid of and was thinking where am I going to throw this away? Not a minute later I get an ad on Pandora: "Did you know you can throw your old mattress out for free at the dump?" About as random an ad as you can get, but in that moment it was hyper specific to my exact needs.
It has to be a coincidence, it just has to, right?
Thank you again Andrew for your videos, you can't imagine how much we like it to learn more and more
about our audio setup. I have this problem in my living room but you know using omnipolar speakers help a lot in this situation, i have OMD 28 that diffuses the sound all over the living room reduce somehow this issue and really i don't feel that i need to install any speakers behind my listening seat.
I used to put m old Mirage M-7 si in the back and it was not bad (Behind my seat about 2 feet) but since i use my main stereo speakers the OMD 28 is really wonderful for home theatre is good enough. Presently i have my mirage OM 5 front speakers for 6 months and when i feel i miss my Mirage M 3 si i move it in and take away the OM 5, and so on lol. Sooner or later i will move the stereo listing system to the other living room and
transform the actual one for home theater. The only reason i did not is my Mcintosh amp mc 452 is so heavy.
Thank you again
You’re most welcome! I do find in many cases that a good stereo setup can sound very impressive with movies or other normally multi-channel source content. In fact, it was many years before I even had a home theater setup with surround channels.
Thank you, Axiom! Good to learn
You’re welcome, glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the video! I’ll find out tomorrow if I’ll be encroaching too much on my viewing/listening area. Have a small 50 watt/channel amp on the way to go from 5.1.4 to 7.1.4. The rears are on a table between the wall and the couch - about 2 feet behind me. I’ll be putting my faith in Dirac to get the job done properly. I think too many people rely solely on what the Dolby website suggests they do, as opposed to just simply trying it out in your individual living space. Dolby bases those configurations on a perfectly dimensional room, with perfect acoustic, in a perfectly clutter-free testing environment - something none of us have. Cheers!
Nice video. Have a nakamichi 7.2.4 with couch on back wall. They want the 2 rears to be at ear level 5-8ft behind listening position angled 135-150 degrees. The rears are to be reflected off ceiling for height base sound. Same advice apply for back wall setup? Thanks.
Thanks
I am lucky enough to have a dedicated home theatre room but I still need the couch against a rear wall since the room is not huge and, because of layout, windows, doorway placement, there is really only one orientation for sofa and screen. I have Monitor Audio FX channels on the rear walls as part of a 5.2.4 setup rather than 7 primary channels since there just isn’t a good way to put the additional two side surrounds in. It’s a compromise but seems to work well.
I have been adding to/replacing my system piece-meal (replaced my center channel a few weeks ago) and currently have a 7.2.2 set-up. My "theater" doubles as my bedroom and the single chair is against the back wall. I have my rear surrounds just behind the seat angled in and the sides just forward of my head so the speakers envelop me. The heights are on the front wall and just a week or two ago placed 1x2s along the outside edges to angle them in. It's pretty ugly, but I think it made a difference. I'd eventually like to replace the surrounds with some higher-quality better-sounding speakers, but probably still need them to be physically rather small to fit. Unless I move everything to a bigger room I don't think it's possible to add the extra heights - besides, I'd have to buy an extra amp to power them and use the pre-out connectors on my Denon AVR-X4700H.
Very great video! Just wondering along with the couch being in the back wall, what height should speakers (rear) be at? I know they should be the same height as the front left and right speakers, however if the rear speakers are mounted on the back wall, each one being on the very end of the couch at ear level, wouldn’t that hurt/destroy peoples ears who sit far left or far right? So I guess the main point is, is it ok to have your speakers higher than ear level or would the destroy the sound quality, etc.?
I've been using my bipolars behind my couch on the ceiling tilted down towards the couch for years and i like it but this is a new closed room vs my open floor plan from before
Hi There, thank you for the informative video.
I have a projector setup with Amazon fire tv stick and a room with dimension 11’x9’. Can you suggest a 200w ( I understand from your explanation that I shouldn’t go beyond 200w) Dolby atmos surround sound system with hdmi video pass through (to connect video to projector)?
Nice video! i'm in this boat. I have klipsch RS-52 that are mounted up and away behind on back wall. I'm wondering about those side surrounds placed at front of house off to side.. do you recommend dipole or direct radiating for this setup? for reference, i've got onkyo TX-SR806 (so 7.1 max i think) klipsch RC-64, RF-63 FL/FR, and RS-52 in the back.
Great Video, Thank you, really insightful. I always wanted 7.1 but could never balance the sound, never thought of putting rear surrounds up high. Just wondering, if you have the rear surround speakers up high on the back wall then do the side surrounds need to be the same height to create a matching rear soundfield or do they need to be just above ear level/at ear level? Also if one of the side surrounds are very close to listening position is it better that both the side surrounds and rear surrounds are all difuse type speakers?
I would really appreciate your advice.
Thank you
Martin
Would be great, if you show sone graphics or pictures of the things that you explain
How about a pair of Sonos ceiling ceiling speakers right at the bsck of the room for rear surrounds?
I have large windows around my setup so cannot mount on side walls for reae surrounds
Another great tutorial Andrew ! I have a 5.1.2 system with the couch against the backwall and in-walls (backwall) for the surrounds, exactly as you described. Using the Dolby guideline, I located the backwall surrounds and 2 in-ceiling ATMOS very close to the recommendations. Surrounds work well and ATMOS is ok but not overwhelming (probably because of 2 vs 4 speakers ?). Eying your distributed audio speakers as an improvement for base level, may talk with your tech support.
Thank you for sharing your setup. We’re here to help anytime!
Andrew, you made no mention of a 5.1.4 setup when the couch is against the wall. Does that mean you do not recommend 5.1.4 in this situation? Thanks.
My problem was having to buy another 9.2.4 Atmos receiver.
I actually used a speaker selector for the 2 Atmos channels to add more of a presence up there. It definitely helped.
As far as doing it when you’re backed up against the back wall, that’s tough. I’d possibly use a dipole as an on ceiling in a 2 channel Atmos setup. Mess with turning up the gain on the Atmos speakers you have and turning down your other channels to make it stand out more.
I just don’t think adding two more on separate channels would do much because they want you to have a set in front of you and behind you ideally.
Depending on your receiver/pre-amp they do have settings where you name your Atmos speakers front side or rear. You can probably do a set front and another as side.
You also want to point your in ceiling’s at your position if you can.
Would you use a dipole/bipole speaker on the side surrounds as well in a couch against the wall scenario or a directional surround speaker pointed at the listening position?
Very informative video Andrew! I have a similar situation where our two big viewing chairs are against the back wall near the rear corners of the room with a fireplace is in between separating the chairs by about 4 feet. Centered above each chair is a large architectural niche, which is about 3 feet square and about 2 feet deep. I have small bookshelf speakers perched at opposite corners of each niche edge pointing toward the listener. The problem is each surround speaker is less than 2 feet from the left and right listener's outside ear so while the surrounds sound great, the person seated on the right gets blasted by the right rear surround and the person on the left gets an earful from the left surround. Would it be an idea to move the surrounds deep into the niche further from each listening position or would bipoles be a better solution to place somewhere in the niche? BTW, bipoles on the side walls are out of the question as there is only a side wall on the left while the right is an open area leading into the dining room.
What angle should the overhead speakers in a 5.1.2 be when the couch is against the wall? Dolby seems to recommend between 60 and 100 degrees, with 80 being optimal (?), but that might be in case you have surround speakers behind you. Mine are basically on the side of me, so should then overhead be more forward (60 degrees) to separate them more from the surrounds?
a 5.1.4 two rear height atmos enabled speakers. i cant tell if i should set them as rear heights or top rears. i dont hear much audio unless i need to boost the level of the speakers
Great video Andrew! Would love to hear what you think about the options one might have in today's open floor plans where you may not have either side or back walls, but only the front LCR speakers and perhaps only the ceiling for surrounds. In my case, that's what I was up against and went with a 5.1 with the surrounds in the ceiling because I just couldn't see any other options. Cheers!
Thank you! That’s a great topic for a future video.
What about just floorstanders? Or bookshelfs on stands? Are you just not wanting speakers? Because not having any boundaries would be pretty nice for flexibility regarding fitting speakers where they need to be. I’d recommend using Floorstanding speakers for your fronts and surrounds.
Can I place the rear speakers at the front of the living room together where my soundbar is??? Sony RS5
In a 5.1 system is there a way to have two speakers on each for the side channels (side left and side right )
What if i'm also back against the wall and need rear/side surrounds for 5.1 but can't use stands, and only have one side wall close to the sofa? Would bipole/dipoles in a similar position on the back wall still work?
My new dedicated room is 11' by 10' i have 2 bipolar for surround with a 5.1 system and a 100' screen. How would you set that up?
What you described is exactly what I have: couches against the wall, and 2 QS8s on the rear wall.
I also have an extra pair of QS8s for when I'll have a bigger room that I will feel is worth having the extra 2 side channels for a 7.1 system.
I have a question: I currently have speakers for a 7.1 system with 4 x QS8s.
I'm planning to some day buy 2 Axiom in ceiling speakers to upgrade to Atmos.
Now, Atmos recommends having direct firing for all speakers, including surrounds. How will the QS8s perform in an Atmos system since they are Quad-pole? Will I have to replace my 4 surround speakers for better performance?
My suggestion, since you have those QS8s already, would be to install the Atmos in-ceiling speakers and see what you think about the effect. I know that Dolby wants directional all around, but the reality is that I think it will be a step back in performance when you’re not playing Atmos-encoded content.
How far below the tv can you put the soundbar to work distance below the tv???
I may have a weird question. I have a 5.1.2 system with 2 upfiring speakers on front R & L. In my new home my couch is against the wall so I went with bipole/dipole on rear wall. I’m wondering if can hook up atmos upfiring speakers that I can place on the coffee table of each side of the couch? Will that interfere with my surround speakers since they’ll be at a lower height? Im looking to have a hybrid 5.1.4 system obviously since right now I’m not wired through the walls.
Not a weird question at all! What you are proposing should not interfere, but the effect will not be as immersive as ceiling or purpose-built speakers designed to be mounted up near the ceiling for Atmos. I would suggest temporarily moving the front up-firing speakers and trying them in the location you’re considering.
Great video! I'm going with a 5.1.2 surround with bipole/dipole side surrounds, i should place the side surrounds at 90° from the listening position or slighty back or front? And i should angle the speakers to the listening position?
Thank you! If you have space and they won’t be too close to the back wall, I usually prefer them to be slightly behind the listening position. Because they are bipole/dipole there is no need to angle them.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters If i put them in the line listening position i will have around only 15cm of space between the back wall and the side of the speaker, if i put slightly behind the speaker will be touchin the back wall, should i just place them in the back wall with 2 feet height from the LP and try to put more away from the listening position or continue with the side wall at LP line? I have only 1 foot of distance from the back wall to the LP and 4 foot from the side walls
What about if u have 2 sofas that are against the wall?
My room is challenging for my surrounds. They are heavy not something I’d put hanging from a wall. Very tricky
Sounds like stands are the way to go for you. No room is ever perfect, you just work with what you have to make it sound the best you can.
I like your videos
Thank you, and for taking the time to say so, cheers!
What height do you suggest to put the center rear speaker seating is about 3ft from back wall.
I would get it above ear level, maybe a couple of feet from the ceiling.
Although you provided some valuable advice on how speakers are arranged to approach to real surround sound environment in the household, it is often rather difficult to find the content produced in ATMOS.
My AVR specification indicated that it supports ATMOS, and I have installed a 5.1 system with enough speakers for 2 years in the living room. However, I have not seen any ATMOS content in steaming movies, TV programs, etc. I only have encountered DTS Virtual X.
If ATMOS is scarcely available, is it worthwhile to install so many speakers at this time? Please let me know if ATMOS is already very popular.
You raise a very good point…in most cases I have only encountered Atmos-encoded blu-ray discs. And even if the stream is capable of providing Atmos content, the streaming receiver (smart TV or streaming stick/box) needs to be capable of decoding that information. It’s very tricky right now but will likely become more prevalent in the future.
If you stream 8n relatively low quality you'll struggle to get much Atmos content. 4K Blu-ray is where it's at, especially if you have a decent TV or projector.
Yeah, I have a couch up against the wall and looking at 7.1 or maybe 5.1 as I've heard it's not really worth it (7.1)
So if I put my bookshelf speakers in line with the listening position on the side walls for 5.1, how far from them do I place my ceiling speakers as rear back surrounds for 7.1?
About a foot or 2 from the left/ right surrounds? Is it actually worth it to use the ceiling speakers for 7.1 rear back surrounds?
Thanks in advance, and looking forward to hearing from you!
If you're back has to be against the wall, you should just go with 5.1. If you want to go with 7.1, and you're raising the height of the rear speakers, they ideally need to be equidistant to all other speakers, so grab a measuring tape, or even better, a laser pointing measurer and raise it to the point its distance matches the other speakers. That might be a challenge and ultimately not even sound as good as a 5.1. Even with 5.1, if you have the speakers set up properly (anywhere from 85 to 120 degrees), you should be able to get a very good phantom rear surround.
That's a great video and directly addresses my current rear speaker issue. Despite having a dedicated room, my 3rd row is going to be pretty much against the back wall. I have enough room on the riser to pull the back row out a few inches but not much.
I was recently thinking exactly what you brought up, maybe go with something more diffused than a conventional mono-pole. One possibility might be an open baffle dipole just below the ceiling pretty much directly over the heads of the back row with the cones facing the front of the room. This way the back row is right in the dipole null and will hear primarily what bounces off the rear wall. The middle and front row however will hear primarily what's coming directly off the fronts of the cones. So it should be diffused to the back row but not so diffused to the other rows. Maybe even put some kind of curved surface behind them to diffuse the rear radiation pattern more. It's a thought worth trying I think.
It's certainly worth trying and having the sides of the dipoles in line with the listening position (null) should give you good spaciousness.
Put rear speakers, left and right in headrests of the individual chairs..
Great video and content. I don't have the same issue as described in the video and in the comments. My room is a large multi use room, and have young children so I'm trying to avoid rear surrounds on the floor. Would it be an option to have angled speakers in the ceiling about 8 feet behind the listening position. Planning on two Atmos speakers just forward the main listening position. Thoughts?
Yes, that would work fine. I would suggest a sturdy mounting bracket that will allow for angling in both the horizontal and vertical.
My theater room is approximately 13X13 and currently have the original 5.1 Bose system with a Klipsch 12" sub and a Yamaha 636 AVR. I am ready to upgrade and have purchased 4 Klipsch reference speakers each with internal elevation speakers and a Onkyo NR696 7.1 AVR to run a 5.1.4 setup.
I now realized that I need a 9 channel AVR to run the 5.1.4 setup. Luckily I was able to get 2 Klipsch 5650 ceiling speakers, so I can run a 5.1.2. with my Onkyo. My dilemma is do I upgrade my AVR so I can run the 5.1.4 setup (mo money) or just run the 5.1.2 setup. I need some good advice on how to proceeded.
Does your AVR have pre-outs? If so, you could always add an external amplifier if you’re not satisfied with 5.1.2. Alternatively, I would suggest just setting up 5.1.2 and see how it performs in your room. You can hang onto the ceiling speakers and upgrade your AVR, if you desire, later.
Thanks for the info...I will go with the 5.1.2 and see how well it works, and because of the size of the room the 5.1.4 might be overkill. Maybe in a couple of years the prices of the 9 channel AVR's will be more reasonable for my budget.
My only other concern is what type of speaker mounts I should use for the 4 Klipsch speakers, they are about 8lbs and 13" tall by 6" wide. There is only a small screw hole in the back about 3 inches from the bottom. Should I be thinking about floor or wall stands. Any suggestions?
@@michaeltobler649 I would think that Klipsch has their own mounting brackets or can suggest brands that will work with their products. I’d reach out and ask.
Thanks
@@michaeltobler649 you're welcome, and have fun with your system.
Here's a test that would be interesting to try that I've
not seen anyone comment on.
For the bed layer only is 6.1 better or worse than a well setup 5.1 if you're unable to go to 7.1?
The reason I say that is a well setup 5.1 has a nice stereo image on the Side Surrounds, from a
7.1 mix it's taking stereo rear imaging into those side surrounds as well.
On a 6.1 setup the Rear
surrounds become mono. So do you gain by having true sound behind you? Or loose on some mixes because you loose some of that nice stereo image in the sides? 🤔
I had the same problem with my bedroom I pulled the bed 1/2 feet and I bought the smallest speakers I could find and now I have them 4 inches behind me,now the sealing speakers I don't know if middle or back I have to experiment
Make sure those speakers that are 4 inches behind you are not sitting directly behind you. As much space as you can give them from your listening position is key.
@@AxiomHomeTheatersthank for the video and for the advice, is 2 and a half feet from my position enough?
@@glengatt3941 That’s probably fine if the levels are balanced. I usually suggest one foot from the side wall (if present) and one foot from the ceiling in these situations.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters but if I put the back surrounds up high they be too close to the sealing speakers,Thea's are at ear level
@@glengatt3941 If they would be that close then you’d want them down further from the ceiling.
What I never see is an Atmos setup for a room with 2 halves. Like one half used for the TV and multimedia, while the other half is used for other things (dining table, open kitchen, hobby space, play space for children, etc). It's extremely common to have that type of living room, yet every single Atmos room setup video is focused solely around rooms that are completely centered around the TV and multimedia and absolutely nothing else for it. How do you set up a room when 1 of your wall-bouncing surround speakers can bounch from a wall near it to deliver sound as if it's from your side while the other rear speaker shoots it out in the open half of the room with the wall being a good 3-5 meters away?
The only less-than-ideal-room solutions that are offered are for setups where there's no space for the rear speakers. Quite literally every other room shape/layout is completely ignored as if it's useless to try and improve the experience for them. Of course, the result wouldn't be as good as a room that completely centered around multimedia consumption, but some folks do want to get the most out of what they have without being forced to dedicate an entirely different room for it.
The reality is that often little consideration is given to real living spaces. For divided room layouts I would suggest side mounting the surround speakers on adjustable mounts. Another option would be in-ceiling speakers for the surrounds in addition to the Atmos channels. It’s not ideal, but it will still give you decent performance.
Difficult to measure the angles for atmos
It should not be…you might need to dust off your high school math books.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters I wish I could just order a device from amazon to measure the angles for ceiling speakers :)
@@bobiktto All you really need is a tape measure, unless you already know your ceiling height. Then it’s very easy to find the distance from your listening position to where the Atmos channels should be installed.
@@AxiomHomeTheaters thanks a lot. I forgot it’s just a triangle to calculate one of the sides
@@bobiktto 👍
I've built 48 home theaters and home cinemas. 6 were true 5.1 or 7.1 ITU. Nearly every time, the rear channels are installed as ceiling height channels. It's not my job to argue. If they want to be idiots, I don't care as long as I get paid. But in no way shape or form is such a setup surround. It's a 100% waste of money.