Hi folks! One thing we wanted to make clear is that our calculations do in fact include both EV charging and EV maintenance. We subtracted the difference of extra savings to the retail price of the EV Kona. Here are the numbers from Consumer Reports: ICE: SUV/Crossover lifetime fueling costs, $19,900 EV: SUV/Crossover lifetime charging costs, $8,700 Difference: $11,200 ICE: lifetime maintenance costs, $9,200 EV: lifetime maintenance costs, $4,600 Difference: $4,600 As there have been a number of questions around including the cost of maintenance and fueling of the EVs, we should have made this clearer in the original video. Thanks for watching and if you're curious to dig into the numbers, here's the full study: advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/EV-Ownership-Cost-Final-Report-1.pdf
I wonder if the difference in paid interest was factored into this analysis. The average American finances a car 67 months @ around 5% interest. In that regard, the EV would cost about $2,500 more than the ICE car. Thats not even counting for increased full coverage insurance costs for a vehicle that costs nearly twice as much.
@@SuperDaleski1 - Though looking at the data sets as presented, it is assumed that a very high percentage to 94% of charging will be done at home. So charging time is not important, as the figures attained from presented data sets, assumes very very few journeys would exceed the best maximum range of the EV. I note that maximum EV range is 200mi. Which suggests that in only 6%, would the EV driver be journeying more than 100mi out and or more than 100mi back. Also, the presented data sets, assume the vast majority of charging will be done at home, so one can surmise a dwelling with off-street parking & designated charger for each EV. So again we’re back to people, who if they can afford a 200mi EV, probably don’t actually need an assumed saving.
@@roddycreswell8613 and the cost of the disposal of the old ones? Cost of electricity in your area vrs where I live? And how is most electricity generated?
One thing you failed to take into account is the fact that tax on electricity will have to increase to offset the decline in fuel tax revenue. This will more than offset the difference between gas and electric cars over time.
What is the “life-span” of a Kona EV? How many miles? How many years? Do you just junk it when the battery dies, or replace the battery? How much does it cost to replace the battery? What is the re-sale value of an EV that needs a new battery? My “98 Subaru Legacy Outback purchased used in 2010 cost me $8900.00 or about $750 per year so far, plus maintenance and fuel. For the ownership cost of 120,000 miles that works out to about $.12/mile, plus fuel and maintenance. Fuel at 18 MPG and $2.75/gal (it has been higher and lower over time) works out to about $0,07 per mile. Oil changes have worked out to about $0.01/mile. Tires about $0.01/mile. Repair costs have been about $0.03/ mile. So my actual mileage cost is around $0.25 per mile, and it is going to get better because the car should be good for ANOTHER. 100,000.00 miles with maintenance and repairs, depending upon parts availability. Convenience is valuable, too. we can drive 600 miles in a day, and spend less than 20 minutes re-fueling regardless of outside temperatures. Another downside of electric vehicles is that the rest of us have to subsidize what is essentially a luxury purchase, and EV’s don’t pay a fuel tax of almost a penny a mile that funds road repair and construction. So electric vehicles can look like a bargain as long as you don’t count the “welfare” in terms of tax breaks that you get from other people. And, electric vehicles won’t save us from “burning up the planet” since most of the electricity in the country is generated by burning fossil fuels in the form of coal and natural gas, so most electric vehicles are essential “coal powered.” So much for being “green.”
And to add to that, windmills and solar energy have gaps in their production due to a variety of different weather conditions and also during the night no or low wind for the windmills and no light for the solar panels. Nuclear energy as a gamb of its own problems the biggest one is the leftover waste which they bury it this time but it is not getting rid of that waste. The biggest one that I looked of that would be the best would be hydroelectric which can be done in a very good way with low pressure turbines being the most efficient because you only need a couple of feet of water pressure in order to run them, and if they are built well actually have a fairly low maintenance to them. But this is going to be a time thing that is not going to happen in 10, 20 or 30 years maybe 50 years at the best. Send us to electric vehicles, the biggest problem is the battery pack, temperatures weather high or too low affect the storage of the battery, and also as to how long the life the battery will have. Yes lithium ion batteries are really neat but they are not the solution to the perfect battery, Mr Baker of the baker car company from the late 1800s said it well ,,,, until a better battery is designed the electric car will have its limitations. He was referring to the lead acid battery, lithium ion batteries are a step in the right direction but are still not a total solution because of their limitations, also yes some of the battery can be recycled but certain aspects of or chemicals in the battery still will end up in a landfill or something creating a pollution problem. Maybe it's coming up with the better lead acid battery we do have the soggy batteries now that are better and lighter in weight, but it's going to take time to figure that solution out. So yes electric vehicles good idea but they're a work in progress including the cost of them. The inflation at this time doesn't help that situation either.
@@anthonywarzecha5846 I hear this argument all the time, but rarely hear about the other renewable energies that are well known, and some of them are even more reliable. And one of the stupidest fallacies is that a country the size of the USA isn't capable of sustaining itself on renewables. If the infrastructure is there, you can be producing electricity in Baltimore and using it in California. The fact that the USA has such terrible infrastructure is beside the point. And yes, the best renewable energy is hydroelectric. It is so good that you can even store it in great big lakes directly behind the generating stations. These are called "Dams", and they are brilliant at producing clean energy, night or day. In fact they are often used to store solar energy, which is used to pump the water back into the "Dams" to allow the energy to be used when there is no solar. And electricity produced from coal is actually still (even if only slightly) cleaner than energy produced from gasoline. But not all electricity (even in Trump's idiotic version of America) is produced from coal. Even in The States, there is a significant proportion that is produced from renewables. And the other blatantly silly point that so many people fail to accept is that renewables have ONLY been produced (with the exception of hydro) for about the past 20 years, while the hydrocarbon industry has had about 120 years to "perfect " its product. Yet the hydrocarbon industry has never, not even for a moment, shown any interest in improving its sustainability. In fact, what it has done is deny and divert in just the same way that big tobacco did. And many of these arguments against EVs have been heavily promoted by the "Legacy" auto makers, and the Petro-producers, and everybody else who has an intrinsic benefit in maintaining the stuff quo. No matter that the status quo is literally killing the planet.
@@BondiAV You mention the Volvo study... Yet you fail to mention that the same study pointed to the carbon footprint of an EV being lower after only 80,000 (miles?km? I can't remember), but still, long, long before the end of the average life of the vehicle. And that figure plummets even further if you live in a country that has already invested significantly more in renewables than the world average. If you're in the EU, that's down to 50,000.
@@BondiAV I am aware of the factors involved in transmitting electricity, but only an idiot would actually think that I meant exactly, literally what I posted. The fact is that the flow of electricity around countries allows for a knock-on effect of producing electricity in Baltimore that would be used somewhere to the west, reducing the demand at that point, releasing energy further west etc.It's almost like, well, you know, how electricity itself works. But the USA is famously short of infrastructure at virtually every level, from electricity capacity to transmission, bridges and roads, you name it, funds for infrastructure have been cut again and again. In the developed world we're able to operate an energy market that allows the shunting of electrical production across a whole continent without thinking too much about it. But there again, only in the USA would you get a state that would literally cut itself off from a national electrical grid just "Because".
@@BondiAV I'm sorry if you felt that I literally meant using the same electricity in California as was produced in Baltimore. But honestly? WTF did you even bother with your reply? Could it be that you're a bit full of yourself? Your latest instalment seems to imply that.
The batteries in these ev cars only last up to 5 to 7 years, and they cost around 5,000 to 10,000 depending on manufacturer. My brother in law has had a Tesla for 4 years and all ready had to change his out.
"The batteries in these ev cars only last up to 5 to 7 years" Tesla warranties their batteries for longer than that. Real world data shows that the bulk of Tesla batteries are still 90%+ capacity at 200k miles. Your statement is false. "and they cost around 5,000 to 10,000 depending on manufacturer. " That is approximately correct at current pricing. The rate of decrease in price on battery tech is astonishing. Today's $5k battery was $15k just 5 years ago. "My brother in law has had a Tesla for 4 years and all ready had to change his out." For free under warranty. My Tesla is older than that and on its first battery which is humming along merrily
Agreed I was going to say about the batteries also what happens when electric motors fail I would hate to see how much they cost probably cheaper to buy a new one which I believe is the car makers plan to sell new cars
The democrats told us this was their plan when Obama was president. They promised to raise the price of fuel so high people would have to switch to electric. It’s all part of their agenda and rely on American stupidity to push their trash even further. Think about it! If climate change was raising the sea levels to dangerous levels, why did Obama buy a multi million dollar waterfront mansion on Martha’s Vineyard 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔? Hmmm !
That's why you invest in renewable energy. This shouldn't bother you unless you're an oil industry CEO/investor. Everyone else can just get another job.
Batteries get what’s called a memory over time, this memory will reduce the capacity of the batteries. I don’t hear anyone talking about the reduction in storage overtime, thus less distance from your EV. The same type of thing occurs with solar panels, over time the panels do not put out the same amount of electricity. Furthermore, we have trouble with capacity of our electrical grid, in the summer months when we use air conditioning our current grid can’t handle the additional drain. Power generation is a dynamic process, when demand calls for additional power power stations come on line and meet the demand, since we don’t have a storage system for electricity, excess power generation cannot be stored.
Let's also not forget that batteries lose capacity as the weather gets colder. Great for southern California, not so practical in northern states. Your 350-400 miles will probably be about 200 miles at best in cold weather. That is assuming you don't draw down batteries for cabin heat.
@@triggins8 California is already complaining about the strain in the northern part of the state and more than once has asked electric owners to "cool it" and my assumption is maybe now people are charging them mainly at night. Here in Ontario it should be interesting because we had been asked many times to turn down or off our air conditioners due to the strain on the system. And another hot summer is on the way. A good fleet of electric cars oughta really put a strain on the grid !!! Something to think about.
@@allaroundgaming100 So what do you think happens to the value of your trade-in? Do you really think people are going to ignore the reduced capacity or cost of new batteries?
This video doesn't actually tell you the cost of an electric car, it gives some generalities and hypothetical numbers. This does not include the cost of recycling the batteries, or the cost of major repairs, which is at least 3 times more than an equivalent ICE vehicle. This video suggests that it is cheaper to maintain an electric vehicle, which is absolutely not true. Volvo has just released a report that shows the cost of ownership of these vehicles and that the cost of an EV will not break even (or be cheaper than an ICE vehicle) until 90K miles. So, if you are the type to sell your car before 90Kmiles, it will cost you more to own an EV.
I have done 68K km in EVs .Cost have been tyres and windscreen wipers. We have 85% renewable electricity .It costs 10c US /kwh to charge at homewhich drives 5.5Km -Thats a no brainer .My son has to repair the heater in his EV $500. I lost $500 on selling my first EV as demand was increasing so depreciating not a problem. The battery in current car is loosing 2%/year .I wish my deterioraion rate was that low-It will out live me.
@@bruceeyers9819 Assuming the battery degradation is linear, by year 10 you will have lost 20% and that is unacceptable. Time for a new battery. Figure that into the through-life costs and see what it does. This also assumes that you never have problems with the inverters or the electric motors.
Correct Sr. Not even close there explanation. Gas cars are much, much cheaper all the way around. No matter how you cut it. Now and in the future. And the way things are going they will be lucky to make battery's anyway in the future.
@@pdarley58 Well, batteries can be recycled but its difficult, expensive and inefficient. The EVangelicals are pinning their hopes on it becoming efficient in the future. No one has addressed the problem of storing millions of batteries until that point.
Nobody talks about battery depreciation....who would want your used EV when you cant really tell if the battery is ok or soon to die...yeah il keep my diesel thanks.
It's already been proven that an EV battery can readily exceed 10 years in normal usage. In normal circumstances, battery degradation is around 2 to 3% per year. And even when partially depleted, full replacement is not always necessary. It is possible - with some EV's - to have the failing cells replaced by good ones, at considerably less cost than a full replacement. We have companies here in the UK already doing this work....
@@thefreestylefrEaK Can't just make up the number you want. They said 1 in 5 EV buyers moves back to an ICE. Way more ICE drivers are going to EV than EV switching back to ICE.
There are still lots of unanswered questions- 1. Does the earth have enough resources to manufacture car batteries for everyone, over and over. 2. How long do the batteries last? We all have cell phones and laptop computers with batteries that only last a fraction of when they were new. So after a few years your electric car will only go 50 miles on a full charge? 3. How much does it cost to replace the batteries in your 3 year old car? 4. Can we build enough factories to recycle the bad batteries? 5. Can our electric grid handle charging electric cars at every home? We have plenty of locations in the US where the electric grid can barely handle extremes of weather. Will we tell people that they can recharge their cars or run their air conditioner but not both?
Tesla claims their batteries are 100% recyclable. I've also seen electric car batteries last up to 500,000 miles. There are electric car manufacturers claim around 400 miles on a charge. I've also seen article were two guys drove all the way across the United States in an electric car rental in just over 48 hours. Also if you are towing something, you have all the power immediately when going from a stop, unlike a gas powered vehicle where you have to slowly go into motion, which means you have to change your handling practices if you are accustomed to towing a trailer. One thing that the video doesn't cover is that if you have to replace the batteries, the cost ranges from $8000 to $15,000 plus any additional maintenance requirements done from wear and tear that take place when batteries are changed. That might still be cheaper than all the gas you would have had to purchase during the operation of that vehicle but it's still pretty steep to come up with that kind of payment at one time. So you'd have to get into the habit of saving what would have been gas money for that big battery bill. I don't own an electric car and I'm not here trying to promote them, but I have looked into them and am sharing some of the information that I've been exposed to.
I just want to point out your said recharge the car or the air conditioner. In that specific case you're talking about someplace hot, and that is where the solution is easiest: solar. Cheap electricity and not reliant on local power grids, they really should be going on every house in sunny states.
@@TheGiantRobot Solar power is not cheap. Run the numbers (most home owner electric bills have a surcharge that goes to wind and solar because they can't complete at the price point of coal plants). Besides, many of the solar panels built are being built with genocidal slave labor (why aren't the human rights people screaming about this?) in China. Solar panels aren't recyclable at this point.
@@PeterSilseth Solar power is cheap. I know plenty of people using it and it pays for itself in just a few years. As far as slave labor, etc. these sorts of abuses are true of all energy production. There are a lot of very selective human rights concerns when it comes to renewable energy.
A few things to note. Fuel prices are fluctuating heavily. Also especially fast charging stations can charge a lot more for the power. That makes actual savings on fuel unpredictable and also dependent on how/where youre charging. Electric cars are not maintenance free. Theyre are basically just oilchange free. If something goes wrong with an electric car its the same cost with minor things but battery or engines are much much more expensive on EVs. If not charged smartly or in very hot climate a battery can last as little as 5 years and its pretty much a 5 figure replacement on even the smallest ones. As for the tax credit it seems like a very american thing to substitute the wealthy and rich with tax money while below average earning people get nothing so thats to be expected. The carbon footprint of todays EVs with lithium ion batteries is just about 20 to 25% lower than the average petrol and only slightly better than cng powered vehicles. So while better than nothing in tha regard its certainly not the answer. We need significantly better energy storage solutions for it to have a decent enough impact.
Realistic battery life vs BS battery life? Cost of replacing battery? Cost of disposing of non-reusable battery parts? Cost of pollution manufacturing battery and dumping battery corpse? Carbon credits costs? Did you factor in the amount of electricity required to make the battery? Was that electricity from a coal fired power station? Don't bother making crappy click bait videos and calling yourself a "reporter" if you're only just gonna do half the job. You're NOT a real reporter, your just an entertainer, and not a very good one at that.
@@starvictory7079What study? Unless it was independent & not funded by the car company, its not worth the paper it's printed on. I could pay for a study to say my crap smells sweeter than everyone else's... doesn't mean it's true.
I absolutely love (hate, actually) the fact that everyone thinks that people have the where-with-all to make this huge capital investment and that they will buy these electric car options that, in some cases, are double the cost of the new gasoline-powered vehicle. Also, what about "mom, the kids and us are coming to Cleveland for Thanksgiving." Yup, good plan. Except you have to turn yourself into a Logistics specialist where you can plan a trip that overnights at a hotel where there's enough charging stations (not just one) and also a restaurant within walking distance of the hotel (since your car will be unavailable to drive as it's charging-up). Also, you've got to add-in the cost of charging the batteries. A friend told me it cost him $53.00 to fully charge his EV on a trip recently. Considering that you're already massively out-of-pocket with the capital cost of the car, that's hardly the kind of savings I am expecting from such a dramatic change. BTW, he also told me his insurance costs for his EV are significantly higher because the replacement parts and labor cost more. I really think this is one big financial scam just to make some folks "virtuous". Anytime someone cannot show me a spreadsheet that accurately displays the costs of a gasoline-powered vehicle versus an EV and not "forget" to mention ALL the expenses of an EV, you know it's bogus. As I said, I have friends who do love their EVs. They do however always have the reservation of "but I wasn't expecting cost a) or b) and I didn't realize cost c) and d) would be so much". The one real stumbling block for me is: how on earth are all the low-income people supposed to suddenly migrate from their $10,000 used KIA to a $40,000 new KIA EV with all the associated additional costs such as insurance, charging costs and "oops, one of the batteries went bad." These cars are not cheap to fix and your repair options are currently limited to dealerships as there isn't yet a network of "mom and pop shops" that can fix EVs.
"Fueling" on a road trip in an EV is a mild savings over most comparable gas cars when gas is at a more typical price than it is at this moment in time; "Fueling" at home is a significant savings over comparable gas cars. The overall costs of operation are lower for an EV in most areas (dependent on gas prices and electricity prices). Fuel: significant advantage to EVs (most regions) Routine maintenance: significant advantage to EVs Cost of repairs when needed: current advantage to ICE Tire expense: advantage ICE Insurance expense: this is really close to a push if you actually shop your insurance
You're being a drama queen. I've owned a Tesla for 3 years now; taken many long trips; and you don't have to be a "logistics specialist." It's easy. The car automatically does everything and there are lots of chargers including some that are free. And I don't buy that $53.00 charge for a second. Nobody charges from 0% to 100%. And even if you did, that cost is unheard of. My Supercharger cost with a 75 kW-hr battery is under $20. 90% of charging happens at home which is even cheaper. The national average is 0.14 cents/kW-hr so a full charge from 0% costs just over $10. And as for the poor, who said they have to buy a new EV? You're comparing apples to oranges. The average new price for an ICE is over $40k. The poor aren't buying those either. If they are that poor, they're taking the bus. Plus there will still be plenty of used junker ICE cars for them to pick from, and more and more used EVs as more and more people switch. Ta-Ta.
@@kenbob1071 Thanks for the insult. I won't do the same to you. Thanks for the feedback. I bet there are thousands of people thanking you for your information as these are questions that don't get asked or answered and so people remain uninformed.
Very interesting - but, while an ev might be worth it for a local use second car they are totally impractical for over the road travel - people are not going to wait 2-3 hours every 350-400 miles to recharge their ev. A Hybred vechical does address this issue and in the long run will probably be a substantial percentage of the market. One of the things you forgot to include in your analysis was the cost of installing high capacity charging station(s) at your home and the extremely high cost to society to upgrade the existing electrical grid to handle all of these new evs - 500,000 is a drop in the bucket when there are 200,000,000 cars on the road - so it is time to get real and address the real costs of this fantasy. And while we are on the subject of cost, the government artificially raising the price of gas and trying to convince people that in the long term electricity will be cheaper is a lie in the greater sense - electric prices will surge once the public has bought into this fantasy as upgrades to the system are implemented. And as for the car companies doing the right thing, have you never heard the word marketing. Playing this game is just another way of saying "If it sounds right, it must be right". Something must be done, yes, but we must be truthful about what we are doing. The long term costs of replacement batteries, etc., when you have 100,000,000 cars on the road needing replacements is beyond anyone's thought at this time. How do you dispose of them...how do you recycle them every 100,000 miles...no one wants to talk about that because they haven't given any long range thought to it. Think about it for a bit...
Totally agree about road travel. My wife and I have taken two trips, of over 5000 miles. I cannot imagine the hassles that we would have faced in an EV. Perhaps, when they find much faster ways to charge, but not now.
I am not seeing how electric cars are less polluting than combustion engines cars. They simply pollute differently. Combustion engines can run on alternate fuels, such as ethanol or old cooking oil wit ha few modifications.
Made up nonsense. Typical fast charge times are under 1/2 hour for 80% charging. For example, Tesla is 20 minutes typical, and (as an example) a Silverado is 1/2 on a 350kw charger. Tesla is far ahead of other vehicles for available high power chargers, but that will change. At 60 miles and hour, that's 3 to 4 hours driving time, which is longer than most people outside of college kids want to drive at one time.
Pretty concise and accurate. The only part not completely covered is where the electricity comes from to charge the EVs. Over 80% of the US energy grid is still fed by fossil fuels. So that "green" EV is still burning coal, oil, and gas most of the time. Not to mention that if there was a significant portion of vehicles swapped "overnight" from gas to electricity, our electric grid could not handle the load of charging. Plus there's the issue of when you did find a charging station, possibly waiting a long while to use it if there are others using/waiting for it. Currently EVs are still niche vehicles useful as a second vehicle/commuters/grocery getters. As mentioned, it is the wealthy who can afford them and they will not achieve widespread acceptance until their batteries will last the life of the vehicle without significant degradation and the charge cycle is as quick as a fill-up at the local gas station. Oh wait - I almost forgot.....taxes. How do you think local/state/county/federal agencies pay to build & maintain the roads we use? Right - the gasoline taxes. Stop buying gas and those taxes have to come from somewhere else - be it a tax on charging your vehicle or taxing each and every mile you drive.
EVs are still more efficient using the fossil fuel that went into making electricity it uses than a gas engine using gas. That said it gives you the option of using renewable electricity where you have it.
You forgot to mention that : 1 . A used car you can buy or sell it 2 . Nobody will buy a used ev because the bateries must be changed after 7 years of use and they cost very very much but an engine you can rebuild it with less money 3 . To do a long trip with an ev is a big headache
yep. tesla battery pack is 20k usd lol..plus where i live dealers wont take your tesla as a trade in.he said too risky with the battery costs. no way i'de buy one that's for sure.
I wish people would stop saying “you get $7500 back from the federal ev credit”. That’s not how it works and fully depends on your tax situation. You will get a credit UP TO $7500 ONLY if you owe federal income tax. If, like most Americans, you get a refund … you get _nothing_ for a federal tax credit.
If you expect to buy an EV soon (especially early in the year), you may be able to game this somewhat. Have your employer change your federal withholding such that no federal tax is deducted, thus you're likely to owe taxes the next time you file. Then you can use the EV tax credit against what you owe.
I've done a lot of research on this. Yes....you will save money if your 20 years old And buy an EV. And keep it till your 40 lol if your buying it cause it's "cool" or "fast" This is the way to look at buying one. There is no cost savings if you break everything down Initial cost, maintenance, fuel prices, etc...
@@DarrellTurnerJr The GLA is the smallest and cheapest Mercedes-Benz SUV, carrying a starting price of $35,245. The A-Class sedan is the cheapest car in the Mercedes-Benz lineup. Prices start at $33,795, and you get a surprisingly luxurious interior for the money. 2020 Mercedes C-Class Coupe: $46,945 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC: $43,495 2020 Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedan: $42,395 2020 Mercedes-Benz CLA: $37,645 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLB: $37,595 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLA: $35,245 2020 Mercedes-Benz A-Class: $33,795
@@DarrellTurnerJr The least-expensive 2022 BMW 2 Series is the 2022 BMW 2 Series 230i 2dr Coupe (2.0L 4cyl Turbo 8A). Including destination charge, it arrives with a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of about $36,350. The BMW 230i coupe has a starting MSRP of $35,900 plus a $995 destination charge. If all-wheel-drive is needed, then buyers can opt for the 230i xDrive, which starts at $37,900. Why do you think all Mercedes and BMWs are the price of a house in Texas, there are plenty of cars the same price as new Camrys lol
She forgot to add 175 it will cost on an average to register in your state and also adding each charging station draws 75 amps if you add all these charging stations or grid in the United States will never be able to handle it so this electric car thing is pretty much dead in the water
Nope. FUD. If the electric grids continue to expand at the SAME RATE they have over the past 50 years, charging EVs will not be a problem, especially as they cycle down gasoline refining, which itself takes a massive amount of electricity.
@@csf1757 If you live in a house walk outside and look at your power lines in your neighborhood. You will see that there are two sets of wires on top of the poles. The higher wire from the sub station feeds transformers on the pole, steps down the current from 13,800 volts to 120/240 volts, about one transformer per 20 houses. This system was built for an average use of 100 amps per house, it takes an additional 75 amps to charge an electric car, meaning, the local grid, in every neighborhood would need to be replaced to meet the need for even a relatively small number of cars. My Father used to be an area lines supervisor, we talked about this, it would take decades to upgrade the grid in every community and the costs would be astronomical
@@PD-yd3fr Not around here. My old address, 1 transformer for 4 houses. My new address, 1 transformer for 2 houses. Haven't seen a house in a long time without at least 125 amps, and all my recent houses had 400 amp service I’ve owned EVs since 2015
@@csf1757 Where I live, older communities, would be extremely rare, unless you live in the country to see 2 houses on ne transformer, extremely rare to see 400 amp service unless you had a large shop where you were welding of had a machine shop setup
The unaddressed challenges tend to be the amount of time needed to charge, the known problems with the various charging options and some not being available or disabled when found, then the recycling of old batteries when they come due for replacement. There is a lot of toxic waste created when making the EVs, as well as the problems trying to recycle old batteries. Until those issues are addressed (and I'm sure some will slowly be resolved), the EV option may be more through forced conversion than by choice. Simply exchanging carbon emissions for toxic waste doesn't seem like a valid trade at this time. Hybrids may still be a preferred option, especially for those who travel extensively or in rural areas.
Localized toxic waste vs. global destruction (btw: oil refineries produce lots of toxic waste as well...and I'm sure that oil change 100s of millions of people get every few months isn't good either...not to mention all the oil spills). Battery materials are recyclable and the technology is rapidly improving. I drive an EV and charge time is not a big deal. Every morning I have a full "tank." On long trips I want to stop to stretch, eat, go to the bathroom, etc. anyway, so a 25-30 minute stop is nothing. Btw: I also own an 18+ year old Prius that is still running strong on it's original battery.
Yet you prefer to ignore Crude Oil which BEVs is replacing that is far more toxic than anything involved with Battery manufacturing. Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons is multiple more toxic than any ingredient in Lithium Ion batteries. The sheer tonnage of PAHs an important part of Crude Oil production tonnage dwarfs the BEV battery industry for the next 15 years. Yet fake environmentalist like you do not care about these scientific facts. NO hybrid are not better interms of toxic waste, they are far worse especially anything less than 50mpg (literally fuel consumption rate).
@@adamhero459 not really, even if your EV is charged on power generated 100% from coal it still produces less greenhouse gases than an ICE vehicle does, and I can't think of any place that generates 100% of its power from coal.
Electricity doesn't just fall out of the sky. It has to be produced. Plus, in California, often, there isn't enough electricity being produced to meet the demands.
Not one of these comparisons has mentioned the mileage tax that our government is getting ready to slap on EVs. Also, giving a tax break to an EV buyer just means another taxpayer will be footing the bill.
You didn’t factor in depreciation. EV cars are changing much more rapidly than their gas predecessors and when you go to sell them it’s like selling a old laptop…. Cars with old tech and range numbers drop much more rapidly.
True.. But even gas cars with tech depreciate too.. Most modern gas cars have the same technologies that an EV has except one has an electric drive train and the other doesn't.
You might be right. I have purchased an EV three weeks ago and it is already second-rate technology as it does not have the new Tesla batteries. But I will keep driving it and it will do the job I want. In Australia, where I live, our oil reserves are depleted and the supply chain for petrol is a long one. The price of petrol is fluctuating and we may soon have petrol shortages. If that happens, it will become difficult to buy EVs and the price of my car will go up. It may also be that depreciation on EVs will be less because EVs are simpler and will age less even if the technology is a bit dated; after all, it still does the job. When my car is ten years old it will still be in good mechanical order. Look at turbo charged cars. Given the choice I would buy a non-turbo charged second hand car because turbo chargers shorten engine life and increase maintenance costs.
Okay but depends on the brand and rarity of the car. If the car is rare then the price can go down alittle or go right up when driven off a lot. The more reliable the car the more stable the price is even after 5+ years of driving. Think of this Tesla owners are still driving 2013 models and still get upgrades think about that lol.
Tesla owners for the first 10-15 years of the company had to also deal with the OEM dropping their own prices on the car. So what the originally bought was worth less a month later. So they were not just battling depreciation; they were battling the company that was selling it to them.
Another major cost of owning an EV is the much higher insurance cost since they cost more to repair and replace. For some reason most comparisons fail to factor this in. Since the Kona EV is $17K more, the insurance premium will reflect this, as well as any higher priced parts such as batteries or high voltage circuitry.
Disagree. Price to insure is primarily based upon your zip code (USA) and your claims history, your demographics, and then there's a formula that's car based that reflects average cost per 5 year period. That cost includes a claim rate and a cost rate. The cost rate includes repair cost, but also injury costs. So not correct to make a blanket statement like you did.
@@csf1757 I realize those factors do play a part, but I’m a senior citizen and my luxury cars have always cost way more to insure than my “regular cars” like Toyotas, even though the luxury cars had far better occupant protection. I am still seriously considering a Tesla, but from what I can glean from various ownership experiences is that one of the reasons the insurance is higher is the rental vehicle cost when the Tesla is rendered inoperable. It looks like in excess of 3 months seems to be a common wait time for repairs to be completed, especially since if you pay for that coverage, they promise you a similarly sized vehicle.
This is a "more expensive car" issue rather than a BEV issue; but yes, when comparing two cars with different sticker prices, there is something of an insurance difference. OTOH, Tesla makes the safest cars on the road, and BEVs have advantages from a safety standpoint in both center of gravity and forward crumple zones... so there are offsets.
The mileage quoted for ev cars is for a new car, unloaded and in good weather. Put the headlights on and the mileage you get on one charge will reduce, put the cabin heater on and it goes down further. Load the car with four passengers and luggage and it goes down even further. As the battery gets older the maximum mileage on one charge will reduce. From what I've read, the average life of the battery before replacement is about 3 years and the cost of the new battery is in the thousands of dollars.
for the pack. for the batteries themselves around $4k. You dont need to replace the pack to replace the batteries. Additionally it would take 30-40 years to get to that point
@@engineeringtheweirdguy2103 It’s not guaranteed, you know that right? Tesla already have those batteries for sale right now. It hasn’t been 30-40 years for Tesla Cars, yet they already have those batteries for sale? Cmon now….
@@UnknownUnknown-cd4hh actually their 2012 generation EV’s have already been punching over 400,000 to 500,000 miles. One even has 1 million miles on it. Newer generations are designed to last longer. But whilst some people might take 9 years to travel 500,000 miles, that takes the statistically average person approximately 30-40 years worth of driving. But it’s these outliers which confirm to us how the vehicles fair over those distances. And you can begin to see degradation data after around 100,000 miles of driving which some newer model 3’s have already done and the data suggest the batteries are ageing as expected.
@@UnknownUnknown-cd4hh as far as I’m aware you cannot buy batteries direct from Tesla outside of a service for a Tesla, booked with Tesla, that requires batteries under warranty. (Which in itself is 8 years alone. Many vehicles still with 8 year unlimited miles warranty).
Not so. In many cases, the failing cells can be replaced with good ones at considerably less cost than a complete replacement. We have companies in the UK already doing this work. Your EV battery misconception has to be one of the most prevalent ever...... In normal usage, it has already been proven an EV battery can readily last 10+ years. Have you ever kept a car for over 10 years?
The problem with these calculations is the "life of the vehicle" part, most don't keep new cars for more than 3-5 years so all that cost has to be calculated in that time frame not the mythical "life of the vehicle"
@@nigelcoleman7666 It doesn't. I just did the math the other day for a Chevy BOLT and VW ID.4 . It would take me 11.5 years to BREAK EVEN.. NO THANKS!!!!
@@bmw803 Oh please.. You can buy a brand new Bolt for $20k and if you live in California you get a state tax credit of $2000 plus a $5000 grant. Thats $13k for a new Chevy Bolt. The $5000 also applies for a used Bolt of say $17k minus $5000=$12k.
EVs help nothing at the moment in most situations. Extracting battery materials impacts the environment, and they still, in most places, use fossil fuels indirectly through some of the power plants run by electricity providers.
EVs are still more efficient using the fossil fuel that went into making electricity it uses than a gas engine using gas. That said it gives you the option of using renewable electricity where you have it.
When we buy gas we are paying tax for road upkeep. Don't you think the politicians will some wake up when we have enough EV 's on the road that they need to tax them for road upkeep and did you figure in what it costs to borrow that extra $17,000 to get the electric vehicle.
dude extracting some of the materials impacts not only the environment but also humanity. Dangerous child labor is used to extract mica and cobalt, and if a child isn't injured from the unsafe working conditions the chronic exposure to the dust leads to dangerous long disease. EV batteries and smartphone iphone/ batteries need cobalt and mica to work and endorse these practices.
dude extracting some of the materials impacts not only the environment but also humanity. Dangerous child labor is used to extract mica and cobalt, and if a child isn't injured from the unsafe working conditions the chronic exposure to the dust leads to dangerous long disease. EV batteries and smartphone iphone/ batteries need cobalt and mica to work and endorse these practices.
most definitely! for those interested, check out our video from earlier this year on getting rid of fossil fuels: ruclips.net/video/i_xwYTKX8pY/видео.html
That is true, but even without any change in electricity sources, EV's emit less carbon dioxide. Because EV engines are so much more efficient (77%) than internal combustion engines (12%-30%), it takes a lot less energy/fossil fuels to drive the same distance with an EV.
Ev's suck! Now I like the mild hybrid with engine start stop feature but full EV is garbage!! Imagine you have a medical emergency or you're in a place where you need to get out right away and you just plugged in your EV where it shows 9% charged and you are in the middle of nowhere. What do you do? EV batteries can range from $6,000 to $22,000 for a tesla.... I bought a 1997 Saturn sc with 73,000 miles 3yrs ago sitting in the garage for 10 yrs. Did the maintenance and a 5th gear swap and it gets over 40mpg hwy, paid $1,400. My other 2002 saturn sc will be retiring soon as the rack & pinion is going out, drivers floorboard rusted out like the flintstones.... transmission going....ect. Had this one for 18 years. My next vehicle will be a Ram 1500 big horn v6 etorque, my first new car ever at 41 years old which I hope will last till i'm dead. I also have a 98 eclipse spyder with 38,000 miles found 3yrs ago and another Mitsubishi 97 eclipse gst modified by myself to 330 hp with 130,000 miles and 3 motorcycles with all low miles. I keep my vehicles forever untill they die. I love 90's cars and do all my maintenance and hate Ev's but I can't wait to get a Ram before Ev's try to take over which here in the US, the infrastructure will not be able to support. If I work minimum wage, why should I have to pay so much for Ev's and the maintenance, headaches. No thanks...... keep your garbage EV!!! As a aircraft, automotive and Heavy truck technician I prefer gas and diesel. Good luck for Semi's going electric being stuck in a blizzard or traffic jam or anything EV!!! How about Alaska where temperature severely affects battery charge and range. EV's are not the future at least not for me. I value my time and don't need the headaches and problems that EV's will cause.
If we do away with fossil fuels and everyone drove an electric vehicle, we would have to depend on electricity to heat our homes,buildings, businesses. The demand for electricity would be insane! The high demand would make the cost of electricity astronomical! How would people who live in highly populated areas charge their vehicles? I can only imagine extension cords running from triple deckers across the sidewalks! We need plastic for the batteries, plastic is a petroleum product!
One real thing you forgot to include in your analysis, the cost to replace the batteries AND the cost to dispose of the dead batteries. The problems with corrosion in the electrical connections and controllers. Seem every comparison conveniently leave such expenses out of their comparisons... And you also didn't talk about getting out in inclement weather to plug in your vehicle so you can use it the next day. Sounds simple and easy, but think about pouring rain or extremely cold temps and you have to plug in your vehicle or else. And what happens if the power goes out because of such weather and your vehicle doesn't get charged. How about running low on battery power and you HAVE to recharge and wait for that to happen. So many other situations people never think about when doing comparisons... I could go on...but....
Are EV's REALLY more environmental.....nobody ever talks about how the minerals IE...Lithium and Cobalt primarily are mined and the environmental damage this does, or how much of these minerals are actually available....the amount of batteries required is outstripped by the currently available resources. The lifetime of the battery is circa 20yrs, and they are currently not recyclable. Mileage on a single charge is still a major issue. Maybe it will make a difference when Sodium ion becomes more available as an alternative battery power...time will tell.
Volvo did a study on their EV versus ICE version xc40. What they came up with is it takes 27,000 to 90,000 miles to break even. The 27,000 miles is if all the electicity is generated by wind. The 90,000 is what current energy generates electricity in the world. Their ICE gets 25 mph. If you instead compare it to a hybrid that gets much better mpg it would take much longer. There are hybrids that get more than 50 mpg. Finally there is another study that shows it takes digging up around 500,000 pounds of earth to get the required elements to make an EV battery. In the US good luck on getting the necessary mining permits.
@@rayshepherd2479 there will eventually be DiLithium wars that make the oil wars look tame. We're going to need Captain Kirk....and not some modern one...the ruthless, randy one.
Seeing as the overall "carbon footprint" of making an EV is greater, much greater than for an ICE car, is it really worth it??? Plus why do EVs look like every other boring car on the road? Why not think outside the box and create beautiful aesthetically pleasing EVs such as the lines of cars from the 50s and 60s. More curves, less rip off styles. Personally I think classic styles with EV innards is the way to go, as well as much greater ranges.
The reason most cars look the same today is wind tunnel studies vs interior and mechanical space. They believe they hit an optimum function style around 2010 with the AMG Mercedes. Every carriagework since has copied that in stretch or compact. 2020 several makers added whacky styling doo dads like Honda and Toyota, but like tail fins in 1960...they're not for function. The basic jelly bean car is underneath. A car struggling to get more than 5km per KW can't really look like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang* or Luke Skywalkers speeder. *Too bad cause that was the most beautiful automobile Ford ever built.
Yes, it’s worth it. Depending on location in the USA, (depends how “clean” the electricity is coal versus wind or solar etc) it takes about 6 to 16 months for an EV to break even on the “carbon footprint” due to manufacturing.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 70% of the US nighttime electricity is gas fired or coal. Most daily driver EVs are charged at night. So that carbon payback is much longer on 70% of the cars is distributed evenly. If the car costs twice to sell then it consumed twice as many resources to build, and all the sourcing was done through carbon emitting engines. The current life of an EV is 5 to 7 years in its original capacity and state of use. No hard evidence as yet shows the car is 100% or even 50% recyclable. Big PR claims frkm builders,, but no independent proof. The phone and PC model has shown this to be about 10% for them with high disposal pollution with 5 to 7 year life in PC and 2 to 4 year life in phones.. So there are problems, but they are still nice cars for the right users in the right situations. However even if it was perfect, small automobiles are a small portion of the carbon use emissions. Mfg, ag, military, power is 70% of the carbon. Transport 30 to 35%. Most of that cargo, air, trains....this leaves your passenger car around 7 to 5% worldwide. Your EV probably accounts for a 25% carbon savings if you drive the same as gasoline...however EVs get driven more. If most cars were EVs we would add about 3 months to the How Dare You Doomsday climate scenarios. Your car...about 10 seconds. EVs are a public distraction from climate change, that keeps you buying with a soothed conscious....like plastic recycling keeps us buying plastics...but most recycling is a scam of out of sight out of mind
@@STho205 so the 6 to 16 months was calculated by the EPA and included everything, including manufacturing and including the kind of electricity used to charge the cars. So your “night time charging with coal” is a moot point, since this is included in the calculations. The current life of an EV is 5 to 7 years is not true either. Where do u even get this info from. It’s well known by now that battery packs will likely outlasts the rest of the car, if that is what u are aiming at. EV batteries do not degrade as much as they had expected and basically comes down to only a handful of miles reduction after 100K miles. My car is 5 years old and 40K miles and I can’t see any reduction at all. What I do see is that I’ve paid less than $65 since January 1st, roughly 1700 miles.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 this is the same government that told you Covid came from bats they never found...no lab involved, in the 90s that diesel was more clean environmental than gasoline (assuming the mfgs cheat the tests), that masks made a ginormous or any difference in spread, that recycling works, that there was no radiation tests on unwitting hospital patients in the 50s, that.... There is no way that such a simple number can be calculated on such a broad spectrum of applications and manufactured items that didn't even yet exist when they said it... Like WW2 Donald Duck cartoons....that's propeganda to get you to do what they want. Spend more on new stuff and make their promises and programs look sucessful. Buy whatever you want. You know you don't really give a crap about carbon or you'd be writing your letters (including this one) with ink and a quill and walking or riding a packed bus to get places. You'll never save the planet driving a new car.
Questions 1. How much will the tax on EV's be to subsidize lost revenue for states? Fuel taxes help pay for many things like road maintenance. 2. Electric is "cheap" now but how high would costs go with increased demand from EV's?
I'm all for EVs but still I'd die before I traded my lifted Jeep that I take offroad in for a EV. All the EV trucks that I've seen have independent suspension which sucks for off-road when compared to solid axles. My worry is EVs will kill alot of mechanic jobs. I'm sure with EVs like Tesla having around 50 separate computers all repairs will have to be done thru the dealership. Which means premium repair prices example my aunt had to pay $1200 for a single sensor replacment. Also what about road tax on gas? Alot of people love paying less for electricity but as more and more EVs hit the road I'm sure states will need to start charging a EV road tax of some kind.
yeah just like autos sadly destroyed the buggy whip sellers, and cell phones destroyed the dial up home phones, and sadly VCR's are a thing of the past... you may want to stop living in the past with your mindset. Mechanics, if talented, will have jobs in other areas those that don't too bad. Regarding your mention of Tesla's you are just simply and completely ignorant as to how they function in terms of their electronics. Road tax, so you'd prefer for the US and other countries to be soleyl dependant upon the middle east for oil (as the smater-than-you politicians and oil companies wnat you to bleieve)... keep drinking that Koolaid, stay dumb, do as your told, make ignorant comments just as the masters want you to.
"All the EV trucks that I've seen have independent suspension which sucks for off-road when compared to solid axles" The HumVee has an independent suspension. Are you sure that's a problem for off-road? That said, none of the BEVs (other than the just released Rivian) is actually an off-road vehicle. "My worry is EVs will kill alot of mechanic jobs." You should see what the car did to manufacture of buggy whips. "Tesla having around 50 separate computers all repairs will have to be done thru the dealership." Most modern cars have a large network of seperate computers. Tesla doesn't have dealerships, but I understand your point. There are private tesla repair shops. When I was in an accident, the repairs were not done by Tesla. "Which means premium repair prices example my aunt had to pay $1200 for a single sensor replacment" Sounds excessive. Was that on a Tesla? "Also what about road tax on gas? Alot of people love paying less for electricity but as more and more EVs hit the road I'm sure states will need to start charging a EV road tax of some kind." Yes. We will need to re-evaluate how we fund roads.
There will still be jobs for mechanics to work on ICE vehicles until the ICE engine goes away...which may never happen. Those same mechanics who now work on ICE vehicles can now train to work on EVs There right now is a shortage of such technicians.
The road tax for electric vehicles is recouped in the registration fee. Speaking of. Tires on an elec. vehicle wear out faster due to the greater weight. Everything is a trade off.
The side effect is charging a car or powering a house cannot be separated, Thus The cost of living will increase to pay for everyone to use a e car. I have seen a 50% increase in cost in CA I see a $0.37 per KW charge to deliver electricity on top of the $0.11 KW to use electricity. Yes more to get the electricity than to use it!. A combination of fires, solar power and expanding infrastructure.
I see a couple of problems here. As electricity demand goes up we all pay more (naturally). If this whole green thing goes down and we nolonger rely on fosil fuels, a monopoly has been created with the eletric companies across the u.s. There needs to be competition and options for the people. I honestly think going ev will only go so far, and gasoline will still exist. Majority of people don't take public transportation and probably never will. Can't give people freedom and then take it away!
Well one thing not mentioned is that all electronics are built to last only 5 years, so somewhere around that time you will be hit with extremely high repair costs or a new car.
If your job is 10-20 miles away and there isn't an adequate transit available, how do you get home by walking and biking??? I live in Western NY, in winter we get hammered by lots of snow and cold temperatures. Transit, biking and walking doesn't always work in the real world. EVs are still too expensive unless you get a used one with a fair amount of miles. The break even point in some cases can take over 10 years.
@@letsbefreeletsbefree7183 that's always the answer that people without arguments will give you. What do you do when a house close to your job will keep you in a mortgage until you die??? No thanks. And what if your spouse doesnt work close to where you do??
@@bmw803 Ride-sharing? Public transport? Going by bike the 9-10 months each year when no snow exist? So much could be done if we allow ourselves to think outside the box.
To produce 1 electric vehicle battery you must remove: 25,000 lbs of brine for the lithium 30,000 lbs of ore for the cobalt 5,000 lbs of ore for the nickel 25,000 lbs for the copper All told, 500,000 lbs of earth crust must be dug up for 1 battery. Also, 84,000 gallons of fossil fuel are needed to move all that earth. If you drove your vehicle 15k miles a year and got 20 miles a gallon, you could drive your gas burner for 112 years. And that doesn’t factor in that those batteries last less than 20 years, or that there does not yet exist a planet friendly lithium battery disposal plan. So unless you just love the technology and don’t mind raping the plant, drive a gas burner.
And all that doesn't matter, the government is forcing us to go this way not asking us and who owns these companies Ontario Power Generation, Hydro Quebec, BC Hydro and others. Not only will the price go sky-high, for travel it will also go sky-high to heat our homes.
"25,000 lbs of brine for the lithium" and "30,000 lbs of ore for the cobalt" ROFL how about ZERO you liar. LiFePO4 Battery made from Hard Rock Lithium from Australia require NONE of that. Stop with the mindless copy and paste propaganda. "84,000 gallons of fossil fuel are needed to move all that earth" is just an absurd LIE.
@@SuperDaleski1 That make zero logical sense. Those companies can not force it onto you. Electricity is far more competitive than Crude Oil and private citizen have the option to generate their own. The Utilities would have to keep the price reasonable too not incentivize even the small proportion to generate their own. You fail to realize how different Electric supply has Multitude of Sources.
I’m on vacation… I can only drive Approximately 300 miles, then have to stop to recharge for 2 hours plus wait time to get a charging station… 900 mile trip takes me 4 days because we don’t have the charging stations where they need to be, so I might only be able to drive 150 miles because the next charging station is 275 miles… Electric also uses Fossil fuels to build and to make the electricity …
There are those who believe the "electric" car is cheaper. This may be true until you actually go to buy one. They tend to be more expensive than a regular car so your behind on cost there. Many of the "charging stations" around the country are run by diesel generators so "green" is out. Once the rats and other bugs destroy your battery you are left with a 20,000 dollar bill to replace it to start. So your cost savings are wiped out completely and you are now far into the red for savings. But go ahead and buy an electric car. Your other left wing democrat liberal friends will be so proud of you.
"There are those who believe the "electric" car is cheaper. This may be true until you actually go to buy one. " I don't even know what this means... but the OP put up their math to establish their case. "They tend to be more expensive than a regular car so your behind on cost there." I assume you are referring to purchase price. That depends. My Model 3 is about the size of an M3 and outperforms it. The M3 is more expensive. But, as shown in this video, it is true that the "out the door" price is higher on BEVs. "Many of the "charging stations" around the country are run by diesel generators so "green" is out." 1) The power grid is 40% green. 2) The remaining 60% is mostly LNG, not diesel. 3) Power plants burn more efficiently than cars. 4) Because there's no idling loss on either a power plant nor a BEV, you'd actually need to compare BEVs to hybrids to even begin to approach the energy efficiently (how much energy they use to operate)... which raises the price on your non-BEV. My model 3's MPGe is ~120 miles/gallon. 5) The grid gets a bit greener every year... so pollution from a BEV (which is already far lower than an ICE) goes down every year. " Once the rats and other bugs destroy your battery you are left with a 20,000 dollar bill to replace it to start. So your cost savings are wiped out completely and you are now far into the red for savings." 1) Tesla's battery warranty is 100,000 miles. Unless you do something (like crash), Tesla will replace for free. 2) Tesla sells the battery for the model 3 long range for $13,500, and that price moves down over time. "But go ahead and buy an electric car. Your other left wing democrat liberal friends will be so proud of you." I love mine. It's faster than your car by a long shot and driving 300 miles costs me about $3.50 (since my solar system, assuming it lives only as long as the the 25-year warranty, is about $0.06/kwh. I also don't miss dealerships lying to me about maintenance I don't need (as if the thousands in maintenance I did need wasn't bad enough). I don't miss having to stop for gas (like most people, I only go more than 150mi from my house on a few occasions per year). I love the added features (like dog mode for when I am travelling). My liberal and conservative friends really like my car. But you know what's clear to me from your last comment? Your position is ideological rather than practical.
I am not anti-EV but when it comes to the EV argument, it reminds me of a customer I had years ago when I was trying to sell him a data network data-saving device. He asked me "how much is it going to cost me to save some money ?" This video is very applicable to UK also. Our GOVT has reined right back any subsidies for charging points or cost of sale rebates on all but relatively cheap EV's. Also, most sensible people dont buy brand new, BUT in the UK there is no meaningful used EV market yet.
Cost of sale rebate in UK is negligible compared to tax /NI savings if you lease an EV on a salary sacrifice scheme. Basically all the fleet buyers are going electric right now, so used EV market will swing up in three years time
@@gothmog2441 You are right of course, but me being retired and wanting a cash purchase this was no good to me at all. But I do believe you are right on the used market. I had a company car for 20 years until about 2004 when I chose to go private and take an allowance - I would love to crunch the numbers now. Trouble is when say another 5% of the UK car market is electric, how will the grid cope as there is only a tiny safety margin at peak demand times now and not all cars will be charged at 01:00 ?
Im a mobile detailer in the UK. My current van is a 20 year old 450,000mile Vauxhall combo diesel. Even loaded I get 50mpg, 800+ miles per 5 min fill up. I paid £1500 for it, 14 years ago! I hired a Nissan EV van for a month. I gave the thing back after 2 weeks because I was having to cancel appointments and loosing money. I cannot charge at home so even if I bought one. I'd be reliant on public charging. The EV van allegedly had a 200 mile range. On a typical day. I drive 150miles per day. Except. Once I'd loaded the van for work inc the water tank. I was getting 50 miles from a charge. I had to charge the thing 3 times per day! Thats around 4 hours wasted per day!. My average day with the EV: Take missus to work. She comes home on the bus. Charge the van... Yawn. Do 1st job... Drive to the charge point, wait in a 3 or 4 deep queue and eventually charge the van. Cancel 2nd job because of the charging issue. Charge the van so its ready for taking the missus to work. If we did any socialising, shopping etc... I'd need to visit the charger again before turning in for the night or we wouldnt have enough juice to take the missus to work in the morning. Charging the van isnt just the time charging the thing. Theres the time to drive to the charge point (not many around here). Waiting for a charger to be available if someone is already there. I have been 5 deep in a queue. I really despair for the future. EV's are not good enough. The range is too short and the charge time too long. public charging facilities are sketchy at best. I live in a city of 320,000 people. My nearest public charge point is 8 miles away, there is just 2 points. The next charge points are a further 15 miles away across the city. I hate card payments. I have lost so many credit cards... I leave it at home, Im not good with cards.. I can buy diesel with cash... I like cash, I know where I am with cash. The local bus company has some electric buses... They are always freezing cold and the drivers are not allowed to turn on the heaters on because it kills the range, the buses are constantly getting delayed or cancelled because of them needing charging or sitting dead by the side of the road.
It would be good to do a comparison including hydrogen fuel cars as well. It seems, every fuel has problems but the fuel that we can adapt to our daily lifestyle with the least inconvenience is the one the majority will go with. Maybe hydrogen is the answer, or maybe not, you tell me.
Hydrogen is an energy transport not an energy source. You cannot drill for Hydrogen. Hydrogen is created on an industrial scale by steam reforming. This process releases CO2 into the atmosphere.
You're not taking into consideration the cost of repairing the propulsion system components. When the car requires a battery or propulsion motor the cost of these repairs is prohibitive. In addition, is anyone considering the recycling of the batteries? Not to mention the pollution created in generating electricity, which will only be cured by getting over our unnecessary fear of nuclear power plants. Electric vehicles should be a choice, not a mandate to the consumer, and at current technology still not the cure all.
You will never see me with a full electric vehicle. I go deep into the woods, haul heavy loads and drive long distances. Not in urban areas. Plus, look at the upkeep on these cars. Look where is says at some many miles or years you have to change out the battery. Then look at the replacement cost of said battery. They have their places, yet not in my world in the places I go.
Excellent video! There is however one major thing that has been over looked that would be worth considering. ROI (trade in value) Comparing two vehicles one hybrid, the other full electric. As a consumer that puts on 13k miles a year I would loose a little over ten thousand dollars going electric after fuel savings and maintenance is considered. Open a spread sheet and try a comparison with the Chevy Bolt (electric) and a Toyota Venza (Hybrid). After ten years of ownership the Venza would be worth 15k, the Bolt, maybe 2k? No one buys an electric used vehicle with a 15k+ battery replacement bill. Our lot is full of them to be hauled away for auction, no one wants them. That in turn drives up new car prices further due to vehicle demand. How much more will you pay for the next one as a result? Factor in the other points you've raised. Don't really see this as a sustainable future for transportation with affordability. Like health insure, it's just pay more for less.
Good joke, Dad! What a comparison! A Bolt!!! Venza hybrid! Spread sheets! Numbers thrown all over the place! Too funny!!! Stop it already!!! I can't breathe! Not a sustainable for future transportation affordability! Too much! (Comparing to a Bolt!!!) >>>> should get more comical and change Garage for BOZO!
What wasn’t mentioned, and seems to missing from the equation is what is the “lifetime” of the car. That is a major contributor to the cost. The average battery life for both is 3-4 years, with the EV battery costing~$10k and the CV costing around $200. What rates were used to charge the EV? What is the average distance driven, per day? How about disposal of the batteries (not just cost to get rid of it, but costs to the environment. Can the grid support the additional load to charge the cars being pushed?
You can not compare a phone battery to a car battery. Approximately at 1000 charging cycles, a battery loses about 25% capacity. For phone battery, it gets recharge once a day so it lasts 3 years. For car battery, it get recharge once a week so it lasts 20 years. Actually you asked a lot of simple things that the answer could be found online. EV is charged at night during off peak so it does not add any more load to the grid.
You forgot to include the cost to replace the batteries every 50,000miles aprox (thats around $15,000) and the batteries dont last very long in extreme cold. Also insurance companies are beginning to refuse to insure your home if you park in a garage due to the high number of recent fires cause by faulty batteries. Another point you forget to make is the electrical grid is already taxed to the max and this will cause even more stress on it
Not sure what that info is from but it's totally wrong. There are pruis taxies with 400k or 600k miles all original motor and batteries. Tesla's with 120k miles that their batteries have only lost 5% total capacity. Even Kia has a 120 month 100k warranty on the entire hybrid system including batteries. And each generation of batteries improves over the earlier ones. Charging at home costs about 1/4 as much as the gas equivalent, maybe even 1/5 with gas prices getting near $5 again.
My uber liberal friend in Raleigh, NC traded in her Honda Civic for an EV and now she is complaining that her electric bill has gone up more than what she used to spend for gasoline.
The government is subsiding the purchase. How much is battery replacement? How is recycling the batteries going? The electricity that charges EVs come from coal and natural gas. The minerals that are used for batteries are mined from large quarries. You can’t even charged these cars to 100%. Most manufacturers limit the charge to 85%. Look, if the technology was ready for prime time, government (i.e. taxpayers) would have to subsidize it. Instead of letting technology progress naturally, world governments are forcing it down our throats now. The government doesn’t tell people the truth about EVs.
@@SpottedSharks the Biden administration. It’s actually came out of Biden and other democratic politician’s mouth that they wanted the price of gas to stay high to push the population towards EVs. And let’s not forget that the WEF is pushing towards that goal as well.
EVs do need reduction gear oil changes and traction battery pack coolant changes. In the case of the former, the oil could need changing in as little as every 11,000mi to a maximum of 40-50,000mi. In the case of the latter, the coolant, will need changing at around 80,000mi or less. As to servicing, the costs are roughly the same as ICEd vehicles during warranty period. As to keep the warranty, the vehicle must be serviced as per manufacturer stated periods. And while EVs generally need less complex maintenance, dealers are charging the same as ICEd vehicles. Good recognition that the richer you are, the more likely it is, that you’ll be able to afford an EV; and that you’d be able to actually save by owning one. Also, government subsides/monetary incentives, are paid for by every taxpayer - but only get handed out to those that can already afford an EV, even without saving for the purchase. For every $/€/£ given to an EV buyer, there’s that same amount of $s/€s/£s, not being spent on healthcare; not being spent on transport infrastructure; not being spent on the environment; not being spent on emergency services. You’ve got to answer the questions. Do you want government money given to people who don’t need it and not spent on healthcare+on transport infrastructure+the environment+emergency services? While at the same time, as penalising every taxpayer & non-taxpayer, who doesn’t own an EV. Or do you want your taxes to help pay for, healthcare+transport infrastructure+the environment+emergency services?
oil changes for what? there are some for the transmission, but not much else. unlike say an ICE, where there are changes for the engine, and those other bits too (both Evs and ICE have essentially are transmissions). have you read an EV manufacturer recommendation's? i have, as i have an EV, and have had ICE too, they arent even close as to what is recommended and the costs from the dealers is a lot less, though you do have to keep an eye on them, just like you do for every thing else (one tried to do an oil change in my EV, we kinda wonder exactly what they going to do, they eventually relented on that). well the cheapest EV today, costs about $27,000, and thats without the tax credit (that OEM has sold too many cars). and it is a real car (unlike some early ones), just dont expect to have 200 miles of range. i do like your comparison on taxes, though i would expand it a lot, to include things like gas tax (it should be higher, hasnt changed in over 20 years, and costs to build roads have gone up a lot in that time, which i why i dont complain about the fee EVs pay because they dont pay gas tax. but state gas taxes havent gone up either), and i think we have the most inefficient, lowest effective and over priced health care 'system' (looks more like a kludge than a system). we pay the most and get less for it, just based on how long we in the US live (our life spans in the US have been going down, we arent even close to the longest lived any more. and we spend more than all countries do. well the impact of ICE vehicles on the environment are well known, there is the impact of drilling for oil (and gas and diesel is all generated from oil) transporting it to refineries, or from there eventually to the gas station. and the amount of electricity to run a refinery, or gas station isnt trivial. and the fuels used to transport it (by ships or trucks) isnt trivial either . and then there are pipelines, which seem to be more of a threat than what seems like a simple thing, but its not so safe as one ould think. and then there is transporting oil by train, which would seem to be safe right> its not, seems that there are more than a few times where train just explodes, because of traffic issues on the track, or going to fast. course the tax credit is at $7500 per qualified car (to make it easy we can just use rough numbers). if there were 1 million EVs sold every year, and all of them got the full amount (they dont) the total tax credit would be about $7.5. sounds big huh? but consider how much the tax credits given to the oil industry is, or airlines, or just about any other big business (health care??). the ev tax credit is a rounding error those tax credit at best. and of course emergency services and some of the roads in a state are funded by the states (mostly) by theie taxes. which most dont have any sort of tax credit for EVs at all. and most of the health care spending in the US is federal, states tend to ignore that if they can (and they do even if they cant,,,just because) . in a 3trillion budget ( a trillion = about 100000 billion )
@@davwill124 - Valid points there, though I will have to take your word on many points, as my knowledge & understanding of U.S. infrastructure is limited, as I live in Brexitania. And in Brexitania, 72-78% of end-user purchase costs of fossil fuels, is taken as various taxes. Though big oil corps pay no taxes in Brexitania, they are given hundreds of £bn of tax payers’ money, in both direct payments & ‘tax breaks’, which in itself is ridiculous, as they pay no taxes here. In Brexitania there is no correlation between the buyer’s income and how much they get when buying a new EV. Brexitania’s new EV grant, is not a tax credit and is applied at point of payment, (the grant payment is not available on leased vehicles). There is a standard sum; that sum has reduced over the past 10-8yrs. Eight years ago, the one-off government payout was around £8,500, two years ago it was £3,500, today it is £1,500 per new EV. There has been no and there is no present grant like payment, for purchase of second-user EVs. If the vehicle is a work specific EV, the grant is around £8,000 per car/small van. I don’t know about larger vehicles such as buses, wheeled dump trucks.
I'd love the $7500 upfront along with whatever amount my state may give me. Couple that with my trade in and I can petty much slash the amount I need to finance in half. Her math was basic because it doesn't factor in taxes, paperwork cost, delivery cost, title and tags and any other incidental costs.
I appreciate your video. Insurance is also more expensive for EV it looks like as it cost more to replace. Another thing to consider is the distance and link to recharge you might have to invest into a hotel room depending on where you live to charge overnight
havent seen that at all, course it depends on how you drive, what and where. drive a Vette and insurance will be high no matter where you are, never mid some of the exotics, or luxury cars. and most if those are ICE, not EV
@@davwill124 the T3/Leaf is basically a cheap mainstream small sedan equivalent. Iconic EV is a cheap CUV. Bolt is an econobox like a Civic, Colt or Fiesta...so if the insurance is different in those classes to their EV equivalent that could be considered the additional insurance premium. Most EVs are not Model S or Mustangs today. They're T3s and Leafs.
EV's are unafordable unless you can afford to replace them as the battery pack begins to die. If forced upon everyone most will end up with a useless and expensive front lawn ornament
$37,390 - $20,500 = $16,890. The historical average return of the S&P 500 is about 13% if I remember correctly. Put your $16,890 savings in the S&P 500, and, coumpunded at 13% for 10 yeas, you end up with $57,334.20. Yes, it could be less, but it could also be more. EVs are super-cool, but they need to come down in price a lot to make financial sense. I have nothing against rich people buying them, but poor people shouldn't be paying for rich people's luxury toys or subsidising their virtue signalling.
I think this was a very informative video on electric cars. The only thing I believe is missed is that maintenance on the car was off in my mind since batteries need to be replaced which can come with a 10-15k price tag. This can happen between 10-15 years of the life of the car. Most people don't Keep cars that long. Just a note.
well, newer EVs have batteries that will last about 20 years (even some of the 2012 Tesla still have their original batteries), course all of this is based on how and where you drive (the same goes for ICE cars too). and your right, most dont keep longer than 5 years, if that. cause in an ICE car, Maintenace starts to really start to climb
@@davwill124 Im running a 1968 Buick Wildcat (Owned for 35 years) I also own a 20 year old diesel van with 450,000 miles on the clock that Ive owned for the last 14 years. The van cost me £1500 and does 800 miles per fill up. I cannot charge at home and public EV charging in the UK is expensive and sketchy at best. I know of 2 poorly built early model Teslas here in the UK that have both had their batteries fail @ £24,000 each to replace. One of them has only done 48,000 miles, the other one had around 100,000 miles. I keep my cars for as long as they keep running and dont cost a fortune to fix.
This analysis is flawed on many levels: 1. Comparing one car with incentives to another without ones is unfair. 2. How was the coast savings calculated? What assumptions were made? Gas prices and electricity costs vary state to state. What percentage of highway deriving was assumed (electricity at fast chargers costs significantly more than at home). 3. Upfront cost is much more important than fuel savings in many years to come. A quick example: one buys Kona hybrid for $20,000 and invests the saved $17,000 in and Index fund. Say, S&P500, ~10% annual return (or say ~7% inflation adjusted). That's approximately $1000 income every year after 15% Capital Gain tax. Use this $1000 tom cover the difference in gas costs + maintenance and the electricity costs and keep the Principal capital invested. At the end of your car life the gas car owner comes $17,000 ahead. That's assuming the electric car battery doesn't die sooner, in which case the gas car owner is even further ahead. 4. A road trip would require multiple stops for charging. Now factor in your time cost for those stops (at a reasonable hourly rate).
LOL That is just absurd factors. To use investment as excuse is ABSURD as it's a high risk outcome. Even if you put money it what seems like safe index fund. There is no guarantee the financial firms won't just scam you or declare bankruptcy. Times have changed there is not such thing as a safe place to park your money. Every investment is a risk the instant you part with the money. Your No. 3 argument could be outright $17,000 Total LOSS.
ROFL You are complaining about the cost of waiting to charge on an Infrequent road trip while to Eat, Toilet and/or Stretch legs Take a walk. While the time required not get scammed while investing $17,000 is Free?
Just like cash for clunkers by Obama where do you think the money came from from John q taxpayer like I said before nothing is free all these democrat give away programs all come from tax payer a wake up people and smell the coffee if you have a job your paying for this crap
Just to make a point though, most people don't keep their cars that long, SO how does that figure in? So most people wont be able to AFFORD an EV. WOW, kinda defeats the whole point of EV's.
I love so much that she went into detail about who gets this tax credit and how to fix that. This is how the US works, subsidies only for the richer of us - EVs, private college, yachts, etc. Why would they build a subsidy system that helps you buy things you don't actually need to survive, and only if your income is unusually high? Because it benefits the haves and excludes the have-nots.
And how exactly are we “burning up the planet” and who has during a trip over 3 hours just to wait to fully charge the batteries when on a longer trip? I can be fully “charged” with fuel and back on the road in less than 5 minutes.
Who cares. It’s The fast decrease of the range and the nightmare charging situation makes an EV a nightmare to own! I had a 2021 Audi Etron for 3 months. It’s was such a pain the ass for the 2 reasons I mentioned, I took a 10k loss just to get rid of it . This EV hype is all bullshit. I won’t get sucked in again!
Good analysis, in particular with regard to the EV tax credit. The tax credit is not a rebate and, as the video explains, you have to have enough taxable income to take advantage of it. If the government want to speed up the adoption of EVs they should offer a rebate that applies directly to the sticker price. Also, something that isn't talked about here is the environmental impact of mining the rare earth metals, eg Lithium, to make EV batteries and then recycling them at "end of life". Lithium is a serious pollutant if it isn't recycled or disposed of properly. EVs can be part of the solution to pollution and global warming only if they are properly implemented.
Better to have government get out of the way completely and let the market work. You will get a better product at a better price and it won't cost tax payers trillions. In the mean time, consider the fact that we will continue to need and use fossil fuels for many years, including powering the nation that will need to charge electric vehicles.
It was designed by politicians and their friends for politicians and their friends. It is more regressive than these millionaire tax reforms that were screamed about by one party vs another. Most of the conspicuous consumption tax credits are for the over $100k city/suburb set.
@@dwest4473 Can you site any examples where that's been the case? The reason we have pollution controls on ICE vehicles for instance is because of government regulation. Market forces couldn't care less about environmental impacts.
@@mostguitarswins Nearly every innovation for transportation and energy production has been dominated by private industry. The cleanest countries in the world are those that have learned to access and use cheap energy sources. If US govt desires more rapid transition to EVs it should kill corporate taxes, allow mining of metals necessary for batteries, continue to allow extraction and pipeline transport of fossil fuels, and let the market decide the best path. BTW, AMTRAk has a horrible record of losing money in all but a couple years of its existence.
@@dwest4473 I think we may be talking about different things. I'm not suggesting that the government get into the EV business. I agree that the private sector is going to provide the viable solutions. There's a role for government though (in my humble opinion) of representing those things that the private sector typically ignores. The Clean Air Act and the banning of lead in gasoline are examples of the government stepping in to do things that the private sector did not/would not do voluntarily. The "market" has no conscience per se so I would not expect it to consider things like long term health impacts, etc.
#1 Gas cars don’t burn up the PlanIt. #2 you didn’t talk about the cost of operating gas cars #3 you didn’t talk about what happens when those batteries go bad #4 you didn’t talk about the cost of producing batteries. I think your report is flawed imho
Used EVs coming off of lease are a fantastic deal. When a car is leased, the $7500 tax credit is used by the dealer. After the lease expires in two years, the cost of the used vehicle can be less than 50% of the Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price. Which is why I was able to purchase a 2 year old BMW i3 electric vehicle with only 13000 miles on it for $18000 when its original MSRP was over $40000. Now add in that in the state of Washington that I get an additional sales tax break for both the purchase of the EV and any costs of a charging station. The tax break applies up to $16000 for a vehicle, which means I only paid $160 in sales tax using the 8% tax rate. Sure the battery might not have the life that a new battery might have but they don't degrade as fast as people imagine that they do. And with a 120 mile range, I'm very rarely going to ever need to be concerned about not being able to drive anywhere local. And since I bought it from the dealer, I was able to get BMW financing for 3-years at close to 0% financing.
Did you get a 2018 or 2019? I got a 2021 and received $25k off the top of the car at the dealership, original MSRP was $60k, the dealer took off $10k and I came in with a $5000 grant, plus I qualified for the $7500 and $2000 tax credits.
Yup, my father (at 80yrs old) did almost exactly the same thing. He wanted to dip his hand into EVs for the environment... he mostly tootles around town these days and driving an ICE vehicle is extremely polluting under those conditions. A used i3 was the perfect ticket for him. Light (for an EV), short-range, and very efficient. Plus he gets to charge it for free in my driveway when he visits :-). But apart from that occasional license, he just charges it on a 120V extension cord at home once a week or so. -Matt
So when you occasionally want to go more than 100 miles in a day....what ya going to do. Like a trip destination of 500 miles each way? Recharge 4 times at 3 hrs of waiting times for an 8 hour trip becoming 11? Rent an ICE or hybrid, which admits fresh ICE cars must still be available? Flight at $300 a seat plus parking plus rental car. Train for $150 a seat plus parking plus rental car. Have an extra ICE car in the garage,,,,so twice the expense for just those special needs. Charge twice a day, with a hotel stay of $200 + an extra day of restaurants for a relatively short trip drive? EV with 100 mi functional safe range are ideal for just town commuting, but then so is a bus. I'd buy one for a college child just for simplicity and limiting ROAD TRIP, but the college would have to have chargers and the car better be $4k or less as coeds destroy cars. A 100mi range car probably means you are a 20 to 30 mile a day driver. Good. That costs $3 a day in gasoline at $4/gal in most US areas for an equivalent sized vehicle. Hardly a major expense compared to $1 a day in electricity for the same drive.
@@STho205 NOPE!!!! My electric car has an electric range of 175 miles and it also has a gas generator that gives me unlimited miles. My car can also charge while I am driving and it only takes 30 minutes on Level 3 to go from empty to 80% battery charge. There are hundreds of public chargers where I live and driving beyond the 175 electric miles in my car in one single trip isn't an issue for me. I drive to the bay area from Orange County often. Always buy a car that fits your lifestyle. If you only drive within an Urban area that has plenty of public chargers, the smaller range EVs will suit you especially if you only want to charge twice a week.
Pure EV's and those that cover them really love to skip over the fact that they take forever to refuel compared to gas powered cars, I can go from running on vapors to full in about 10 minutes, who wants to sit and an EV charging station for a few hours for every few hundred miles traveled. EV's will fill a niche market, especially as and around the town commuter and errand type car, so the fit the average American driver needs, they will need two cars, the EV for around town and a real car for trips. Another thing often skipped is driving in very cold weather, battery range drops substantially. EV's are a long way from the mainstream and will be for a long time.
It's a huge savings... If you're rich😂. Thank you so much for the working class qualifiers! I like the idea of discounting the $7500 at the point of purchase, and the 500,000 charging stations!
I've always wondered how gas/diesel is cleaner than electric when having all electric cars means generating more electricity, which often is using means to generate said electricity still pollutes the environment. Your car fuel bill goes down, but your electric will skyrocket. So where is that balance? And fossil fuel cars can run on other forms of fuel, and we know this because they ALREADY HAVE THEM. Electric cars still pollute the environment, they just do it in a different way.
You forgot to mention the lifetime of the batteries, eventual battery replacement cost, reduced performance of the batteries over time and how they actually perform in cold climates.
Most cars are charged at 50kw stations now running about a quarter per minute. 48 amps at 240 volts takes about 6 hours and comes to about 75 dollars for a full charge to go your 250 miles to the next charge station. The more EV cars using the stations, the more the price will increase. Of course you can charge at home with 120 volt charger and it takes about 11 hours to 'fill' the batteries and cost about 15 cents per minute. The two main problems with home charging is that most people live in apartments or rentals and most houses have 100 amp electric circuitry which negates most off the US from buying these vehicles. The main problem with service of electric autos is that the battery used is hundreds of pounds sitting underneath the vehicle and the service tech needs a car lift to get to it and remove it for service. The other factor in service is that the battery is extremely dangerous and it takes specialized workers to successfully repair it. Claiming that service will be less on unproven technology is simply wishful thinking.
lets see We have between 200 and 300 years minimum of gas and oil in North America alone. Yet some politicians want to move the US toward a power supply that is much more expensive, harder to store, requires the mining of rare earth metals and is unreliable. Remember the Texas winter blackout? Not to mention that the extraction and refining of gasoline requires far less real estate than wind and solar. Now why would we want to change to a fuel system that has proven not to work in many European countries including Spain and Germany who are importing Natural Gas and petroleum from Russia? Well the manufacturers and politicians who push it will get money and power. Create a fake crisis, offer a fake solution that is only remotely feasible if you demonize and destroy the energy source that is responsible for the reduction of poverty around the world because of inexpensive power and mass agriculture that 100% REQUIRES Petroleum and Natural gas. Take away that and millions of people around the world will starve. Because of BIden's crusade against the Gas and Oil industry in the US food prices have already skyrocketed. Imagine what that does to poor people. Most people cannot afford a 60-80 thousand dollar car. But no worries part of the plan is to end private ownership of cars and the forced urbanization of people. So the choice of gas powered vs electric will be irrelevant.....you won't have a choice or a car. Remember, if you voted democrat in the last election because "orange man sends mean tweets" this is what you have to look forward to. BTW what preceded the worst revolutions in world history (French, Russian etc......) ? Scarcity of food/ increase in food prices.
No, if we wanna avoid burning up the planet we need to focus to make public transport more environmentally friendly and get rid of most cars, either ICE or EV's. It still baffles that people don't get that EV's are here to save the car industry, not the environment. And another thing which should be mentioned, for many EV's, depending on the battery size, only after they've been driven thousands of miles they become "green".
I live in Australia and i was told by a dealer that Ev buyers will be paying about .02 cents per kilometre tax, to offset the loss from not using petrol.
A good reason to drive hybrid. I wouldn't pay by the mile. No way! Government is always there to catch people. I vehemently believe that right now driving a hybrid is the way to go.
What about the costs for all the batteries- the dirty mining in third world counties, and the future disposal of batteries for EV's? How is that better for the environment right now?
So...... Ummm if we go to all electric, how do you plan to move freight? 300 mile range on cars, trucks would be significantly shorter range, sure to payload and are expected to haul longer distances...... Pretty much everything we consume gets half by truck at some point.... I'm just curious
I also can buy a used car for a lot less than the 20k compared to. If you are handy with gas cars? You can pick one up for way less and work on it. How much will a used 10 year old EV car be worth on trade in? Unless a new battery is provided, I wouldn't give you $2k. I know how much a 10 year old Toyota is going for and is really generous right now.
Hi folks! One thing we wanted to make clear is that our calculations do in fact include both EV charging and EV maintenance. We subtracted the difference of extra savings to the retail price of the EV Kona. Here are the numbers from Consumer Reports:
ICE: SUV/Crossover lifetime fueling costs, $19,900
EV: SUV/Crossover lifetime charging costs, $8,700
Difference: $11,200
ICE: lifetime maintenance costs, $9,200
EV: lifetime maintenance costs, $4,600
Difference: $4,600
As there have been a number of questions around including the cost of maintenance and fueling of the EVs, we should have made this clearer in the original video. Thanks for watching and if you're curious to dig into the numbers, here's the full study: advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/EV-Ownership-Cost-Final-Report-1.pdf
I wonder if the difference in paid interest was factored into this analysis.
The average American finances a car 67 months @ around 5% interest. In that regard, the EV would cost about $2,500 more than the ICE car. Thats not even counting for increased full coverage insurance costs for a vehicle that costs nearly twice as much.
And what about lost time, I see in the U.S.lineup for charger as it takes 30 min to get a charge 5 mins to fill your tank.
@@SuperDaleski1 - Though looking at the data sets as presented, it is assumed that a very high percentage to 94% of charging will be done at home. So charging time is not important, as the figures attained from presented data sets, assumes very very few journeys would exceed the best maximum range of the EV.
I note that maximum EV range is 200mi. Which suggests that in only 6%, would the EV driver be journeying more than 100mi out and or more than 100mi back. Also, the presented data sets, assume the vast majority of charging will be done at home, so one can surmise a dwelling with off-street parking & designated charger for each EV. So again we’re back to people, who if they can afford a 200mi EV, probably don’t actually need an assumed saving.
Where is the price of the replacement battery your going to need after 6 to 10 years?
@@roddycreswell8613 and the cost of the disposal of the old ones? Cost of electricity in your area vrs where I live? And how is most electricity generated?
One thing you failed to take into account is the fact that tax on electricity will have to increase to offset the decline in fuel tax revenue.
This will more than offset the difference between gas and electric cars over time.
License tab fee will be increased significantly due to not paying gas tax
Also , where is all this electricity going to come from. Coal fired plants, natural gas?
@@ThomasClark123 sorlar and wind?
They’re also talking about taxing people on miles driven. So if they do that, then that will replace the fuel tax I’m sure.
@@Dontknowshit Already a fact on West Coast states. Surcharge for vehicle registraion is an extra charge for EV and Hybrid vehicles.
What is the “life-span” of a Kona EV? How many miles? How many years? Do you just junk it when the battery dies, or replace the battery? How much does it cost to replace the battery? What is the re-sale value of an EV that needs a new battery? My “98 Subaru Legacy Outback purchased used in 2010 cost me $8900.00 or about $750 per year so far, plus maintenance and fuel. For the ownership cost of 120,000 miles that works out to about $.12/mile, plus fuel and maintenance. Fuel at 18 MPG and $2.75/gal (it has been higher and lower over time) works out to about $0,07 per mile. Oil changes have worked out to about $0.01/mile. Tires about $0.01/mile. Repair costs have been about $0.03/ mile. So my actual mileage cost is around $0.25 per mile, and it is going to get better because the car should be good for ANOTHER. 100,000.00 miles with maintenance and repairs, depending upon parts availability. Convenience is valuable, too. we can drive 600 miles in a day, and spend less than 20 minutes re-fueling regardless of outside temperatures. Another downside of electric vehicles is that the rest of us have to subsidize what is essentially a luxury purchase, and EV’s don’t pay a fuel tax of almost a penny a mile that funds road repair and construction. So electric vehicles can look like a bargain as long as you don’t count the “welfare” in terms of tax breaks that you get from other people. And, electric vehicles won’t save us from “burning up the planet” since most of the electricity in the country is generated by burning fossil fuels in the form of coal and natural gas, so most electric vehicles are essential “coal powered.” So much for being “green.”
And to add to that, windmills and solar energy have gaps in their production due to a variety of different weather conditions and also during the night no or low wind for the windmills and no light for the solar panels. Nuclear energy as a gamb of its own problems the biggest one is the leftover waste which they bury it this time but it is not getting rid of that waste. The biggest one that I looked of that would be the best would be hydroelectric which can be done in a very good way with low pressure turbines being the most efficient because you only need a couple of feet of water pressure in order to run them, and if they are built well actually have a fairly low maintenance to them. But this is going to be a time thing that is not going to happen in 10, 20 or 30 years maybe 50 years at the best. Send us to electric vehicles, the biggest problem is the battery pack, temperatures weather high or too low affect the storage of the battery, and also as to how long the life the battery will have. Yes lithium ion batteries are really neat but they are not the solution to the perfect battery, Mr Baker of the baker car company from the late 1800s said it well ,,,, until a better battery is designed the electric car will have its limitations. He was referring to the lead acid battery, lithium ion batteries are a step in the right direction but are still not a total solution because of their limitations, also yes some of the battery can be recycled but certain aspects of or chemicals in the battery still will end up in a landfill or something creating a pollution problem. Maybe it's coming up with the better lead acid battery we do have the soggy batteries now that are better and lighter in weight, but it's going to take time to figure that solution out. So yes electric vehicles good idea but they're a work in progress including the cost of them. The inflation at this time doesn't help that situation either.
@@anthonywarzecha5846 I hear this argument all the time, but rarely hear about the other renewable energies that are well known, and some of them are even more reliable.
And one of the stupidest fallacies is that a country the size of the USA isn't capable of sustaining itself on renewables. If the infrastructure is there, you can be producing electricity in Baltimore and using it in California. The fact that the USA has such terrible infrastructure is beside the point.
And yes, the best renewable energy is hydroelectric. It is so good that you can even store it in great big lakes directly behind the generating stations. These are called "Dams", and they are brilliant at producing clean energy, night or day. In fact they are often used to store solar energy, which is used to pump the water back into the "Dams" to allow the energy to be used when there is no solar.
And electricity produced from coal is actually still (even if only slightly) cleaner than energy produced from gasoline.
But not all electricity (even in Trump's idiotic version of America) is produced from coal. Even in The States, there is a significant proportion that is produced from renewables.
And the other blatantly silly point that so many people fail to accept is that renewables have ONLY been produced (with the exception of hydro) for about the past 20 years, while the hydrocarbon industry has had about 120 years to "perfect " its product.
Yet the hydrocarbon industry has never, not even for a moment, shown any interest in improving its sustainability. In fact, what it has done is deny and divert in just the same way that big tobacco did.
And many of these arguments against EVs have been heavily promoted by the "Legacy" auto makers, and the Petro-producers, and everybody else who has an intrinsic benefit in maintaining the stuff quo.
No matter that the status quo is literally killing the planet.
@@BondiAV You mention the Volvo study... Yet you fail to mention that the same study pointed to the carbon footprint of an EV being lower after only 80,000 (miles?km? I can't remember), but still, long, long before the end of the average life of the vehicle. And that figure plummets even further if you live in a country that has already invested significantly more in renewables than the world average. If you're in the EU, that's down to 50,000.
@@BondiAV I am aware of the factors involved in transmitting electricity, but only an idiot would actually think that I meant exactly, literally what I posted. The fact is that the flow of electricity around countries allows for a knock-on effect of producing electricity in Baltimore that would be used somewhere to the west, reducing the demand at that point, releasing energy further west etc.It's almost like, well, you know, how electricity itself works.
But the USA is famously short of infrastructure at virtually every level, from electricity capacity to transmission, bridges and roads, you name it, funds for infrastructure have been cut again and again.
In the developed world we're able to operate an energy market that allows the shunting of electrical production across a whole continent without thinking too much about it.
But there again, only in the USA would you get a state that would literally cut itself off from a national electrical grid just "Because".
@@BondiAV I'm sorry if you felt that I literally meant using the same electricity in California as was produced in Baltimore. But honestly? WTF did you even bother with your reply?
Could it be that you're a bit full of yourself? Your latest instalment seems to imply that.
The batteries in these ev cars only last up to 5 to 7 years, and they cost around 5,000 to 10,000 depending on manufacturer. My brother in law has had a Tesla for 4 years and all ready had to change his out.
"The batteries in these ev cars only last up to 5 to 7 years"
Tesla warranties their batteries for longer than that. Real world data shows that the bulk of Tesla batteries are still 90%+ capacity at 200k miles.
Your statement is false.
"and they cost around 5,000 to 10,000 depending on manufacturer. "
That is approximately correct at current pricing. The rate of decrease in price on battery tech is astonishing. Today's $5k battery was $15k just 5 years ago.
"My brother in law has had a Tesla for 4 years and all ready had to change his out."
For free under warranty. My Tesla is older than that and on its first battery which is humming along merrily
Agreed I was going to say about the batteries also what happens when electric motors fail I would hate to see how much they cost probably cheaper to buy a new one which I believe is the car makers plan to sell new cars
My ex had to replace her battery on her awful Model Y after a year. Tesla sucks balls.
thats what im seeing a lot as well tesla owners swapping batteres after 100,000 miles.
@@jerrylove865 yOuR sTaTeMeNt iS FaLsE
Let me get this straight... to avoid "burning up our planet", we need to switch from gas cars to coal cars? Yeah, that makes sense.
As with anything that is based on leftist ideology, EVs are a total LIE.
The democrats told us this was their plan when Obama was president. They promised to raise the price of fuel so high people would have to switch to electric. It’s all part of their agenda and rely on American stupidity to push their trash even further. Think about it! If climate change was raising the sea levels to dangerous levels, why did Obama buy a multi million dollar waterfront mansion on Martha’s Vineyard 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔? Hmmm !
LOL 😆
That's why you invest in renewable energy. This shouldn't bother you unless you're an oil industry CEO/investor. Everyone else can just get another job.
@@pacificalliance3782 like you understand global economics - shut up
this is going to change drastically when electricity cost skyrocket.
Electricity already has skyrocketed... thanks to Joe Biden. FJB!
No where near the speed of gas prices increasing.
@@Submanca get ready because that's going to change soon
@@t6s4b < Putin troll. (Clue 1: blaming Biden for free market economy conditions. Clue 2. Promoting Trumpism will kill democracy. Putin’s goal!)
Once there is tons of electric cars it will cost a fortune to charge them at chargers it’s already pretty expensive
Batteries get what’s called a memory over time, this memory will reduce the capacity of the batteries. I don’t hear anyone talking about the reduction in storage overtime, thus less distance from your EV. The same type of thing occurs with solar panels, over time the panels do not put out the same amount of electricity. Furthermore, we have trouble with capacity of our electrical grid, in the summer months when we use air conditioning our current grid can’t handle the additional drain. Power generation is a dynamic process, when demand calls for additional power power stations come on line and meet the demand, since we don’t have a storage system for electricity, excess power generation cannot be stored.
They're trying hard to hide this fact about batteries; just as the government tries to hide almost everything bad it does.
U lose at most 30% over a decade. Most people buy a new car by then
Let's also not forget that batteries lose capacity as the weather gets colder. Great for southern California, not so practical in northern states. Your 350-400 miles will probably be about 200 miles at best in cold weather. That is assuming you don't draw down batteries for cabin heat.
@@triggins8 California is already complaining about the strain in the northern part of the state and more than once has asked electric owners to "cool it" and my assumption is maybe now people are charging them mainly at night. Here in Ontario it should be interesting because we had been asked many times to turn down or off our air conditioners due to the strain on the system. And another hot summer is on the way.
A good fleet of electric cars oughta really put a strain on the grid !!! Something to think about.
@@allaroundgaming100 So what do you think happens to the value of your trade-in? Do you really think people are going to ignore the reduced capacity or cost of new batteries?
This video doesn't actually tell you the cost of an electric car, it gives some generalities and hypothetical numbers. This does not include the cost of recycling the batteries, or the cost of major repairs, which is at least 3 times more than an equivalent ICE vehicle. This video suggests that it is cheaper to maintain an electric vehicle, which is absolutely not true. Volvo has just released a report that shows the cost of ownership of these vehicles and that the cost of an EV will not break even (or be cheaper than an ICE vehicle) until 90K miles. So, if you are the type to sell your car before 90Kmiles, it will cost you more to own an EV.
I have done 68K km in EVs .Cost have been tyres and windscreen wipers. We have 85% renewable electricity .It costs 10c US /kwh to charge at homewhich drives 5.5Km -Thats a no brainer .My son has to repair the heater in his EV $500. I lost $500 on selling my first EV as demand was increasing so depreciating not a problem. The battery in current car is loosing 2%/year .I wish my deterioraion rate was that low-It will out live me.
@@bruceeyers9819 Assuming the battery degradation is linear, by year 10 you will have lost 20% and that is unacceptable. Time for a new battery. Figure that into the through-life costs and see what it does. This also assumes that you never have problems with the inverters or the electric motors.
Correct Sr. Not even close there explanation. Gas cars are much, much cheaper all the way around. No matter how you cut it. Now and in the future. And the way things are going they will be lucky to make battery's anyway in the future.
You can’t recycle the batteries. EVs are bad for the environment.
@@pdarley58 Well, batteries can be recycled but its difficult, expensive and inefficient. The EVangelicals are pinning their hopes on it becoming efficient in the future. No one has addressed the problem of storing millions of batteries until that point.
Nobody talks about battery depreciation....who would want your used EV when you cant really tell if the battery is ok or soon to die...yeah il keep my diesel thanks.
It's already been proven that an EV battery can readily exceed 10 years in normal usage. In normal circumstances, battery degradation is around 2 to 3% per year. And even when partially depleted, full replacement is not always necessary. It is possible - with some EV's - to have the failing cells replaced by good ones, at considerably less cost than a full replacement. We have companies here in the UK already doing this work....
@@thefreestylefrEaK Can't just make up the number you want. They said 1 in 5 EV buyers moves back to an ICE. Way more ICE drivers are going to EV than EV switching back to ICE.
There are still lots of unanswered questions-
1. Does the earth have enough resources to manufacture car batteries for everyone, over and over.
2. How long do the batteries last? We all have cell phones and laptop computers with batteries that only last a fraction of when they were new. So after a few years your electric car will only go 50 miles on a full charge?
3. How much does it cost to replace the batteries in your 3 year old car?
4. Can we build enough factories to recycle the bad batteries?
5. Can our electric grid handle charging electric cars at every home? We have plenty of locations in the US where the electric grid can barely handle extremes of weather. Will we tell people that they can recharge their cars or run their air conditioner but not both?
Tesla claims their batteries are 100% recyclable. I've also seen electric car batteries last up to 500,000 miles. There are electric car manufacturers claim around 400 miles on a charge. I've also seen article were two guys drove all the way across the United States in an electric car rental in just over 48 hours. Also if you are towing something, you have all the power immediately when going from a stop, unlike a gas powered vehicle where you have to slowly go into motion, which means you have to change your handling practices if you are accustomed to towing a trailer. One thing that the video doesn't cover is that if you have to replace the batteries, the cost ranges from $8000 to $15,000 plus any additional maintenance requirements done from wear and tear that take place when batteries are changed. That might still be cheaper than all the gas you would have had to purchase during the operation of that vehicle but it's still pretty steep to come up with that kind of payment at one time. So you'd have to get into the habit of saving what would have been gas money for that big battery bill. I don't own an electric car and I'm not here trying to promote them, but I have looked into them and am sharing some of the information that I've been exposed to.
Check out LG solution company. They break it down and recycle the batteries into element form. Renewable solution keeps on coming! :)
I just want to point out your said recharge the car or the air conditioner. In that specific case you're talking about someplace hot, and that is where the solution is easiest: solar. Cheap electricity and not reliant on local power grids, they really should be going on every house in sunny states.
@@TheGiantRobot Solar power is not cheap. Run the numbers (most home owner electric bills have a surcharge that goes to wind and solar because they can't complete at the price point of coal plants). Besides, many of the solar panels built are being built with genocidal slave labor (why aren't the human rights people screaming about this?) in China. Solar panels aren't recyclable at this point.
@@PeterSilseth Solar power is cheap. I know plenty of people using it and it pays for itself in just a few years. As far as slave labor, etc. these sorts of abuses are true of all energy production. There are a lot of very selective human rights concerns when it comes to renewable energy.
A few things to note. Fuel prices are fluctuating heavily. Also especially fast charging stations can charge a lot more for the power. That makes actual savings on fuel unpredictable and also dependent on how/where youre charging.
Electric cars are not maintenance free. Theyre are basically just oilchange free. If something goes wrong with an electric car its the same cost with minor things but battery or engines are much much more expensive on EVs. If not charged smartly or in very hot climate a battery can last as little as 5 years and its pretty much a 5 figure replacement on even the smallest ones.
As for the tax credit it seems like a very american thing to substitute the wealthy and rich with tax money while below average earning people get nothing so thats to be expected.
The carbon footprint of todays EVs with lithium ion batteries is just about 20 to 25% lower than the average petrol and only slightly better than cng powered vehicles. So while better than nothing in tha regard its certainly not the answer. We need significantly better energy storage solutions for it to have a decent enough impact.
Realistic battery life vs BS battery life? Cost of replacing battery? Cost of disposing of non-reusable battery parts? Cost of pollution manufacturing battery and dumping battery corpse? Carbon credits costs? Did you factor in the amount of electricity required to make the battery? Was that electricity from a coal fired power station? Don't bother making crappy click bait videos and calling yourself a "reporter" if you're only just gonna do half the job. You're NOT a real reporter, your just an entertainer, and not a very good one at that.
There is already a study that calculated all of that.
The EV wins the argument.
@@starvictory7079What study? Unless it was independent & not funded by the car company, its not worth the paper it's printed on. I could pay for a study to say my crap smells sweeter than everyone else's... doesn't mean it's true.
I absolutely love (hate, actually) the fact that everyone thinks that people have the where-with-all to make this huge capital investment and that they will buy these electric car options that, in some cases, are double the cost of the new gasoline-powered vehicle.
Also, what about "mom, the kids and us are coming to Cleveland for Thanksgiving." Yup, good plan. Except you have to turn yourself into a Logistics specialist where you can plan a trip that overnights at a hotel where there's enough charging stations (not just one) and also a restaurant within walking distance of the hotel (since your car will be unavailable to drive as it's charging-up).
Also, you've got to add-in the cost of charging the batteries. A friend told me it cost him $53.00 to fully charge his EV on a trip recently. Considering that you're already massively out-of-pocket with the capital cost of the car, that's hardly the kind of savings I am expecting from such a dramatic change. BTW, he also told me his insurance costs for his EV are significantly higher because the replacement parts and labor cost more.
I really think this is one big financial scam just to make some folks "virtuous". Anytime someone cannot show me a spreadsheet that accurately displays the costs of a gasoline-powered vehicle versus an EV and not "forget" to mention ALL the expenses of an EV, you know it's bogus.
As I said, I have friends who do love their EVs. They do however always have the reservation of "but I wasn't expecting cost a) or b) and I didn't realize cost c) and d) would be so much".
The one real stumbling block for me is: how on earth are all the low-income people supposed to suddenly migrate from their $10,000 used KIA to a $40,000 new KIA EV with all the associated additional costs such as insurance, charging costs and "oops, one of the batteries went bad." These cars are not cheap to fix and your repair options are currently limited to dealerships as there isn't yet a network of "mom and pop shops" that can fix EVs.
Great points.
Excellent remarks. in the meantime i will stay with my 2022 new mazda 3
"Fueling" on a road trip in an EV is a mild savings over most comparable gas cars when gas is at a more typical price than it is at this moment in time; "Fueling" at home is a significant savings over comparable gas cars. The overall costs of operation are lower for an EV in most areas (dependent on gas prices and electricity prices).
Fuel: significant advantage to EVs (most regions)
Routine maintenance: significant advantage to EVs
Cost of repairs when needed: current advantage to ICE
Tire expense: advantage ICE
Insurance expense: this is really close to a push if you actually shop your insurance
You're being a drama queen. I've owned a Tesla for 3 years now; taken many long trips; and you don't have to be a "logistics specialist." It's easy. The car automatically does everything and there are lots of chargers including some that are free.
And I don't buy that $53.00 charge for a second. Nobody charges from 0% to 100%. And even if you did, that cost is unheard of. My Supercharger cost with a 75 kW-hr battery is under $20. 90% of charging happens at home which is even cheaper. The national average is 0.14 cents/kW-hr so a full charge from 0% costs just over $10.
And as for the poor, who said they have to buy a new EV? You're comparing apples to oranges. The average new price for an ICE is over $40k. The poor aren't buying those either. If they are that poor, they're taking the bus. Plus there will still be plenty of used junker ICE cars for them to pick from, and more and more used EVs as more and more people switch. Ta-Ta.
@@kenbob1071 Thanks for the insult. I won't do the same to you. Thanks for the feedback. I bet there are thousands of people thanking you for your information as these are questions that don't get asked or answered and so people remain uninformed.
Very interesting - but, while an ev might be worth it for a local use second car they are totally impractical for over the road travel - people are not going to wait 2-3 hours every 350-400 miles to recharge their ev. A Hybred vechical does address this issue and in the long run will probably be a substantial percentage of the market. One of the things you forgot to include in your analysis was the cost of installing high capacity charging station(s) at your home and the extremely high cost to society to upgrade the existing electrical grid to handle all of these new evs - 500,000 is a drop in the bucket when there are 200,000,000 cars on the road - so it is time to get real and address the real costs of this fantasy. And while we are on the subject of cost, the government artificially raising the price of gas and trying to convince people that in the long term electricity will be cheaper is a lie in the greater sense - electric prices will surge once the public has bought into this fantasy as upgrades to the system are implemented. And as for the car companies doing the right thing, have you never heard the word marketing. Playing this game is just another way of saying "If it sounds right, it must be right". Something must be done, yes, but we must be truthful about what we are doing. The long term costs of replacement batteries, etc., when you have 100,000,000 cars on the road needing replacements is beyond anyone's thought at this time. How do you dispose of them...how do you recycle them every 100,000 miles...no one wants to talk about that because they haven't given any long range thought to it. Think about it for a bit...
Totally agree about road travel. My wife and I have taken two trips, of over 5000 miles. I cannot imagine the hassles that we would have faced in an EV. Perhaps, when they find much faster ways to charge, but not now.
I can do the wiring of a 220 line my self. BUT hay I can fix the car too
@@joeduca6071 What does that have to do with travelling?
I am not seeing how electric cars are less polluting than combustion engines cars. They simply pollute differently. Combustion engines can run on alternate fuels, such as ethanol or old cooking oil wit ha few modifications.
Made up nonsense. Typical fast charge times are under 1/2 hour for 80% charging. For example, Tesla is 20 minutes typical, and (as an example) a Silverado is 1/2 on a 350kw charger. Tesla is far ahead of other vehicles for available high power chargers, but that will change. At 60 miles and hour, that's 3 to 4 hours driving time, which is longer than most people outside of college kids want to drive at one time.
My well-off relative drove EV’s for a few years. He always had concern about low battery when travel; he now switches to a 6-cylinder hybrid.
Depends on your commute. Maybe he commutes 200 miles aday
@@socalsp3 correct, i think it's wise to have 2 cars, Fuel car for primary car and long-trip. EV car for secondary options
@@socalsp3 doesn't matter. You shouldnt be afraid that your car will fail you and you stop in the middle of the road.
Pretty concise and accurate. The only part not completely covered is where the electricity comes from to charge the EVs. Over 80% of the US energy grid is still fed by fossil fuels. So that "green" EV is still burning coal, oil, and gas most of the time. Not to mention that if there was a significant portion of vehicles swapped "overnight" from gas to electricity, our electric grid could not handle the load of charging. Plus there's the issue of when you did find a charging station, possibly waiting a long while to use it if there are others using/waiting for it. Currently EVs are still niche vehicles useful as a second vehicle/commuters/grocery getters. As mentioned, it is the wealthy who can afford them and they will not achieve widespread acceptance until their batteries will last the life of the vehicle without significant degradation and the charge cycle is as quick as a fill-up at the local gas station. Oh wait - I almost forgot.....taxes. How do you think local/state/county/federal agencies pay to build & maintain the roads we use? Right - the gasoline taxes. Stop buying gas and those taxes have to come from somewhere else - be it a tax on charging your vehicle or taxing each and every mile you drive.
You can't really call electric cars climate friendly, the process of getting the material to make the batteries,
This was the comment I was looking for! Someone looking past the hype and BS to see that it doesn't really work like they say.
Renewables and nuclear are 40% of us power generation. In many places it's much higher.
EVs are still more efficient using the fossil fuel that went into making electricity it uses than a gas engine using gas. That said it gives you the option of using renewable electricity where you have it.
80% is definitely inaccurate renewables made up almost 25% in 2021 plus 20% from nuclear is almost 45%.
You missed the most important factor. It depends on how much you drive each year. If grandma doesn’t drive much, that EV is more expensive.
Where is all of extra electricity going to come from to charge these cars
That's what I wanted know
Look at all the cars on the road look at an interstate highway that just what I wonder where you going to get all this electricity
You forgot to mention that :
1 . A used car you can buy or sell it
2 . Nobody will buy a used ev because the bateries must be changed after 7 years of use and they cost very very much but an engine you can rebuild it with less money
3 . To do a long trip with an ev is a big headache
I'll stick to my v8
yep.
tesla battery pack is 20k usd lol..plus where i live dealers wont take your tesla as a trade in.he said too risky with the battery costs.
no way i'de buy one that's for sure.
I wish people would stop saying “you get $7500 back from the federal ev credit”. That’s not how it works and fully depends on your tax situation. You will get a credit UP TO $7500 ONLY if you owe federal income tax. If, like most Americans, you get a refund … you get _nothing_ for a federal tax credit.
If you expect to buy an EV soon (especially early in the year), you may be able to game this somewhat. Have your employer change your federal withholding such that no federal tax is deducted, thus you're likely to owe taxes the next time you file. Then you can use the EV tax credit against what you owe.
All of this “number crunching” ignores the fact that the vast majority of electric generation power plants are fueled with coal.
And ev cars needs 3-4 charges on the same lenght of road....
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I've done a lot of research on this. Yes....you will save money if your 20 years old And buy an EV. And keep it till your 40 lol if your buying it cause it's "cool" or "fast" This is the way to look at buying one. There is no cost savings if you break everything down Initial cost, maintenance, fuel prices, etc...
I disagree, if you’re going to spend 35 k on a new bmw or Mercedes, you will spend more on maintenance and fuel in the long run then a 35k Tesla.
@@McReef2950 please tell me where I can buy a new BMW or Mercedes for 35k. I will get 2.
@@DarrellTurnerJr The GLA is the smallest and cheapest Mercedes-Benz SUV, carrying a starting price of $35,245.
The A-Class sedan is the cheapest car in the Mercedes-Benz lineup. Prices start at $33,795, and you get a surprisingly luxurious interior for the money.
2020 Mercedes C-Class Coupe: $46,945
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC: $43,495
2020 Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedan: $42,395
2020 Mercedes-Benz CLA: $37,645
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLB: $37,595
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLA: $35,245
2020 Mercedes-Benz A-Class: $33,795
@@DarrellTurnerJr The least-expensive 2022 BMW 2 Series is the 2022 BMW 2 Series 230i 2dr Coupe (2.0L 4cyl Turbo 8A). Including destination charge, it arrives with a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of about $36,350.
The BMW 230i coupe has a starting MSRP of $35,900 plus a $995 destination charge. If all-wheel-drive is needed, then buyers can opt for the 230i xDrive, which starts at $37,900.
Why do you think all Mercedes and BMWs are the price of a house in Texas, there are plenty of cars the same price as new Camrys lol
@@DarrellTurnerJr Now you have to buy two of them my man
She forgot to add 175 it will cost on an average to register in your state and also adding each charging station draws 75 amps if you add all these charging stations or grid in the United States will never be able to handle it so this electric car thing is pretty much dead in the water
Nope. FUD. If the electric grids continue to expand at the SAME RATE they have over the past 50 years, charging EVs will not be a problem, especially as they cycle down gasoline refining, which itself takes a massive amount of electricity.
@@csf1757 If you live in a house walk outside and look at your power lines in your neighborhood. You will see that there are two sets of wires on top of the poles. The higher wire from the sub station feeds transformers on the pole, steps down the current from 13,800 volts to 120/240 volts, about one transformer per 20 houses. This system was built for an average use of 100 amps per house, it takes an additional 75 amps to charge an electric car, meaning, the local grid, in every neighborhood would need to be replaced to meet the need for even a relatively small number of cars. My Father used to be an area lines supervisor, we talked about this, it would take decades to upgrade the grid in every community and the costs would be astronomical
@@PD-yd3fr Not around here. My old address, 1 transformer for 4 houses. My new address, 1 transformer for 2 houses. Haven't seen a house in a long time without at least 125 amps, and all my recent houses had 400 amp service
I’ve owned EVs since 2015
@@csf1757 Where I live, older communities, would be extremely rare, unless you live in the country to see 2 houses on ne transformer, extremely rare to see 400 amp service unless you had a large shop where you were welding of had a machine shop setup
The unaddressed challenges tend to be the amount of time needed to charge, the known problems with the various charging options and some not being available or disabled when found, then the recycling of old batteries when they come due for replacement. There is a lot of toxic waste created when making the EVs, as well as the problems trying to recycle old batteries. Until those issues are addressed (and I'm sure some will slowly be resolved), the EV option may be more through forced conversion than by choice. Simply exchanging carbon emissions for toxic waste doesn't seem like a valid trade at this time. Hybrids may still be a preferred option, especially for those who travel extensively or in rural areas.
Localized toxic waste vs. global destruction (btw: oil refineries produce lots of toxic waste as well...and I'm sure that oil change 100s of millions of people get every few months isn't good either...not to mention all the oil spills). Battery materials are recyclable and the technology is rapidly improving.
I drive an EV and charge time is not a big deal. Every morning I have a full "tank." On long trips I want to stop to stretch, eat, go to the bathroom, etc. anyway, so a 25-30 minute stop is nothing.
Btw: I also own an 18+ year old Prius that is still running strong on it's original battery.
Yup. And don’t forget that most places use fossil fuels to charge those batteries.
The environmental friendliness of evs is a sham.
Yet you prefer to ignore Crude Oil which BEVs is replacing that is far more toxic than anything involved with Battery manufacturing. Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons is multiple more toxic than any ingredient in Lithium Ion batteries. The sheer tonnage of PAHs an important part of Crude Oil production tonnage dwarfs the BEV battery industry for the next 15 years. Yet fake environmentalist like you do not care about these scientific facts. NO hybrid are not better interms of toxic waste, they are far worse especially anything less than 50mpg (literally fuel consumption rate).
if you talked to an EV owner they will tell you they charge it at home.
@@adamhero459 not really, even if your EV is charged on power generated 100% from coal it still produces less greenhouse gases than an ICE vehicle does, and I can't think of any place that generates 100% of its power from coal.
It's much cheaper & more convenient to own a used Toyota Camry or Honda Accord for under $15K.
Electricity doesn't just fall out of the sky. It has to be produced. Plus, in California, often, there isn't enough electricity being produced to meet the demands.
Not one of these comparisons has mentioned the mileage tax that our government is getting ready to slap on EVs. Also, giving a tax break to an EV buyer just means another taxpayer will be footing the bill.
You didn’t factor in depreciation. EV cars are changing much more rapidly than their gas predecessors and when you go to sell them it’s like selling a old laptop…. Cars with old tech and range numbers drop much more rapidly.
True.. But even gas cars with tech depreciate too.. Most modern gas cars have the same technologies that an EV has except one has an electric drive train and the other doesn't.
You might be right. I have purchased an EV three weeks ago and it is already second-rate technology as it does not have the new Tesla batteries. But I will keep driving it and it will do the job I want. In Australia, where I live, our oil reserves are depleted and the supply chain for petrol is a long one. The price of petrol is fluctuating and we may soon have petrol shortages. If that happens, it will become difficult to buy EVs and the price of my car will go up. It may also be that depreciation on EVs will be less because EVs are simpler and will age less even if the technology is a bit dated; after all, it still does the job. When my car is ten years old it will still be in good mechanical order. Look at turbo charged cars. Given the choice I would buy a non-turbo charged second hand car because turbo chargers shorten engine life and increase maintenance costs.
Okay but depends on the brand and rarity of the car. If the car is rare then the price can go down alittle or go right up when driven off a lot. The more reliable the car the more stable the price is even after 5+ years of driving. Think of this Tesla owners are still driving 2013 models and still get upgrades think about that lol.
Tesla owners for the first 10-15 years of the company had to also deal with the OEM dropping their own prices on the car. So what the originally bought was worth less a month later. So they were not just battling depreciation; they were battling the company that was selling it to them.
I wish your point about EV pries would be right now, so I can buy a used EV for less, since gas prices soared up, so EV are going up...
Another major cost of owning an EV is the much higher insurance cost since they cost more to repair and replace. For some reason most comparisons fail to factor this in. Since the Kona EV is $17K more, the insurance premium will reflect this, as well as any higher priced parts such as batteries or high voltage circuitry.
and in oregon they are a lot more to register!
Disagree. Price to insure is primarily based upon your zip code (USA) and your claims history, your demographics, and then there's a formula that's car based that reflects average cost per 5 year period. That cost includes a claim rate and a cost rate. The cost rate includes repair cost, but also injury costs. So not correct to make a blanket statement like you did.
@@csf1757 I realize those factors do play a part, but I’m a senior citizen and my luxury cars have always cost way more to insure than my “regular cars” like Toyotas, even though the luxury cars had far better occupant protection. I am still seriously considering a Tesla, but from what I can glean from various ownership experiences is that one of the reasons the insurance is higher is the rental vehicle cost when the Tesla is rendered inoperable. It looks like in excess of 3 months seems to be a common wait time for repairs to be completed, especially since if you pay for that coverage, they promise you a similarly sized vehicle.
This is a "more expensive car" issue rather than a BEV issue; but yes, when comparing two cars with different sticker prices, there is something of an insurance difference.
OTOH, Tesla makes the safest cars on the road, and BEVs have advantages from a safety standpoint in both center of gravity and forward crumple zones... so there are offsets.
How come when I got my EV insurance is over $40 less per month?
The mileage quoted for ev cars is for a new car, unloaded and in good weather. Put the headlights on and the mileage you get on one charge will reduce, put the cabin heater on and it goes down further. Load the car with four passengers and luggage and it goes down even further. As the battery gets older the maximum mileage on one charge will reduce. From what I've read, the average life of the battery before replacement is about 3 years and the cost of the new battery is in the thousands of dollars.
You also need to figure the cost of electricity to increase when more demand is needed to power EV cars. Amongst other things.
Get a electric car they said, it’s cheaper than a car with gas.
When electric car battery needs replaced costs about $12,000-$13,000+
for the pack. for the batteries themselves around $4k. You dont need to replace the pack to replace the batteries. Additionally it would take 30-40 years to get to that point
@@engineeringtheweirdguy2103
It’s not guaranteed, you know that right? Tesla already have those batteries for sale right now.
It hasn’t been 30-40 years for Tesla Cars, yet they already have those batteries for sale? Cmon now….
@@UnknownUnknown-cd4hh actually their 2012 generation EV’s have already been punching over 400,000 to 500,000 miles. One even has 1 million miles on it. Newer generations are designed to last longer. But whilst some people might take 9 years to travel 500,000 miles, that takes the statistically average person approximately 30-40 years worth of driving. But it’s these outliers which confirm to us how the vehicles fair over those distances. And you can begin to see degradation data after around 100,000 miles of driving which some newer model 3’s have already done and the data suggest the batteries are ageing as expected.
@@UnknownUnknown-cd4hh as far as I’m aware you cannot buy batteries direct from Tesla outside of a service for a Tesla, booked with Tesla, that requires batteries under warranty. (Which in itself is 8 years alone. Many vehicles still with 8 year unlimited miles warranty).
Not so. In many cases, the failing cells can be replaced with good ones at considerably less cost than a complete replacement. We have companies in the UK already doing this work. Your EV battery misconception has to be one of the most prevalent ever...... In normal usage, it has already been proven an EV battery can readily last 10+ years. Have you ever kept a car for over 10 years?
The problem with these calculations is the "life of the vehicle" part, most don't keep new cars for more than 3-5 years so all that cost has to be calculated in that time frame not the mythical "life of the vehicle"
I was thinking what "life of the vehicle" meant. I did the math for my own budget and an EV made no financial sense at all.
@@nigelcoleman7666 It doesn't. I just did the math the other day for a Chevy BOLT and VW ID.4 . It would take me 11.5 years to BREAK EVEN.. NO THANKS!!!!
@@bmw803
Oh please.. You can buy a brand new Bolt for $20k and if you live in California you get a state tax credit of $2000 plus a $5000 grant.
Thats $13k for a new Chevy Bolt.
The $5000 also applies for a used Bolt of say $17k minus $5000=$12k.
Everyone leases their electric cars for 2 to 3 years and pay $300 a month or less..
@@mamadouaziza2536 should throw in a new fire extinguisher
EVs help nothing at the moment in most situations. Extracting battery materials impacts the environment, and they still, in most places, use fossil fuels indirectly through some of the power plants run by electricity providers.
EVs are still more efficient using the fossil fuel that went into making electricity it uses than a gas engine using gas. That said it gives you the option of using renewable electricity where you have it.
That's a good argument for nuclear power isn't it?
When we buy gas we are paying tax for road upkeep. Don't you think the politicians will some wake up when we have enough EV 's on the road that they need to tax them for road upkeep and did you figure in what it costs to borrow that extra $17,000 to get the electric vehicle.
dude extracting some of the materials impacts not only the environment but also humanity. Dangerous child labor is used to extract mica and cobalt, and if a child isn't injured from the unsafe working conditions the chronic exposure to the dust leads to dangerous long disease. EV batteries and smartphone iphone/ batteries need cobalt and mica to work and endorse these practices.
dude extracting some of the materials impacts not only the environment but also humanity. Dangerous child labor is used to extract mica and cobalt, and if a child isn't injured from the unsafe working conditions the chronic exposure to the dust leads to dangerous long disease. EV batteries and smartphone iphone/ batteries need cobalt and mica to work and endorse these practices.
Never count a tax credit. That’s just money that would have gone to the government but they are giving you a break on.
$714 per month vs $381 per month for 60 months. That's $19600 dollars over the 60 month period. Same interest rate of 6%.
We also have to produce green electricity by not using fossil fuel to generate said electricity.
most definitely! for those interested, check out our video from earlier this year on getting rid of fossil fuels: ruclips.net/video/i_xwYTKX8pY/видео.html
That is true, but even without any change in electricity sources, EV's emit less carbon dioxide. Because EV engines are so much more efficient (77%) than internal combustion engines (12%-30%), it takes a lot less energy/fossil fuels to drive the same distance with an EV.
What is fossil fuel? And green electric
@@van7111 what is ev
What about the hours it takes to charge an electric vehicle vs the 5 minutes it takes to fuel them.
For real. I ain't waiting a damn hour to charge a car.
Right??!!😤😤🤬🤬
@@powerband5235 It doesn't take an hour.
@@starvictory7079 to fully charge it does.
Ev's suck! Now I like the mild hybrid with engine start stop feature but full EV is garbage!! Imagine you have a medical emergency or you're in a place where you need to get out right away and you just plugged in your EV where it shows 9% charged and you are in the middle of nowhere. What do you do? EV batteries can range from $6,000 to $22,000 for a tesla.... I bought a 1997 Saturn sc with 73,000 miles 3yrs ago sitting in the garage for 10 yrs. Did the maintenance and a 5th gear swap and it gets over 40mpg hwy, paid $1,400. My other 2002 saturn sc will be retiring soon as the rack & pinion is going out, drivers floorboard rusted out like the flintstones.... transmission going....ect. Had this one for 18 years. My next vehicle will be a Ram 1500 big horn v6 etorque, my first new car ever at 41 years old which I hope will last till i'm dead. I also have a 98 eclipse spyder with 38,000 miles found 3yrs ago and another Mitsubishi 97 eclipse gst modified by myself to 330 hp with 130,000 miles and 3 motorcycles with all low miles. I keep my vehicles forever untill they die. I love 90's cars and do all my maintenance and hate Ev's but I can't wait to get a Ram before Ev's try to take over which here in the US, the infrastructure will not be able to support. If I work minimum wage, why should I have to pay so much for Ev's and the maintenance, headaches. No thanks...... keep your garbage EV!!! As a aircraft, automotive and Heavy truck technician I prefer gas and diesel. Good luck for Semi's going electric being stuck in a blizzard or traffic jam or anything EV!!! How about Alaska where temperature severely affects battery charge and range. EV's are not the future at least not for me. I value my time and don't need the headaches and problems that EV's will cause.
If we do away with fossil fuels and everyone drove an electric vehicle, we would have to depend on electricity to heat our homes,buildings, businesses. The demand for electricity would be insane! The high demand would make the cost of electricity astronomical! How would people who live in highly populated areas charge their vehicles? I can only imagine extension cords running from triple deckers across the sidewalks! We need plastic for the batteries, plastic is a petroleum product!
One real thing you forgot to include in your analysis, the cost to replace the batteries AND the cost to dispose of the dead batteries. The problems with corrosion in the electrical connections and controllers. Seem every comparison conveniently leave such expenses out of their comparisons... And you also didn't talk about getting out in inclement weather to plug in your vehicle so you can use it the next day. Sounds simple and easy, but think about pouring rain or extremely cold temps and you have to plug in your vehicle or else. And what happens if the power goes out because of such weather and your vehicle doesn't get charged. How about running low on battery power and you HAVE to recharge and wait for that to happen. So many other situations people never think about when doing comparisons... I could go on...but....
Are EV's REALLY more environmental.....nobody ever talks about how the minerals IE...Lithium and Cobalt primarily are mined and the environmental damage this does, or how much of these minerals are actually available....the amount of batteries required is outstripped by the currently available resources. The lifetime of the battery is circa 20yrs, and they are currently not recyclable. Mileage on a single charge is still a major issue. Maybe it will make a difference when Sodium ion becomes more available as an alternative battery power...time will tell.
Volvo did a study on their EV versus ICE version xc40. What they came up with is it takes 27,000 to 90,000 miles to break even. The 27,000 miles is if all the electicity is generated by wind. The 90,000 is what current energy generates electricity in the world. Their ICE gets 25 mph. If you instead compare it to a hybrid that gets much better mpg it would take much longer. There are hybrids that get more than 50 mpg. Finally there is another study that shows it takes digging up around 500,000 pounds of earth to get the required elements to make an EV battery. In the US good luck on getting the necessary mining permits.
Lithium mines contaminate our fresh water supply in the process of making the batteries
@@rayshepherd2479 there will eventually be DiLithium wars that make the oil wars look tame. We're going to need Captain Kirk....and not some modern one...the ruthless, randy one.
Seeing as the overall "carbon footprint" of making an EV is greater, much greater than for an ICE car, is it really worth it??? Plus why do EVs look like every other boring car on the road? Why not think outside the box and create beautiful aesthetically pleasing EVs such as the lines of cars from the 50s and 60s. More curves, less rip off styles. Personally I think classic styles with EV innards is the way to go, as well as much greater ranges.
The reason most cars look the same today is wind tunnel studies vs interior and mechanical space. They believe they hit an optimum function style around 2010 with the AMG Mercedes. Every carriagework since has copied that in stretch or compact. 2020 several makers added whacky styling doo dads like Honda and Toyota, but like tail fins in 1960...they're not for function. The basic jelly bean car is underneath.
A car struggling to get more than 5km per KW can't really look like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang* or Luke Skywalkers speeder.
*Too bad cause that was the most beautiful automobile Ford ever built.
Yes, it’s worth it. Depending on location in the USA, (depends how “clean” the electricity is coal versus wind or solar etc) it takes about 6 to 16 months for an EV to break even on the “carbon footprint” due to manufacturing.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 70% of the US nighttime electricity is gas fired or coal. Most daily driver EVs are charged at night.
So that carbon payback is much longer on 70% of the cars is distributed evenly.
If the car costs twice to sell then it consumed twice as many resources to build, and all the sourcing was done through carbon emitting engines.
The current life of an EV is 5 to 7 years in its original capacity and state of use. No hard evidence as yet shows the car is 100% or even 50% recyclable. Big PR claims frkm builders,, but no independent proof. The phone and PC model has shown this to be about 10% for them with high disposal pollution with 5 to 7 year life in PC and 2 to 4 year life in phones..
So there are problems, but they are still nice cars for the right users in the right situations.
However even if it was perfect, small automobiles are a small portion of the carbon use emissions.
Mfg, ag, military, power is 70% of the carbon. Transport 30 to 35%. Most of that cargo, air, trains....this leaves your passenger car around 7 to 5% worldwide. Your EV probably accounts for a 25% carbon savings if you drive the same as gasoline...however EVs get driven more.
If most cars were EVs we would add about 3 months to the How Dare You Doomsday climate scenarios. Your car...about 10 seconds.
EVs are a public distraction from climate change, that keeps you buying with a soothed conscious....like plastic recycling keeps us buying plastics...but most recycling is a scam of out of sight out of mind
@@STho205 so the 6 to 16 months was calculated by the EPA and included everything, including manufacturing and including the kind of electricity used to charge the cars. So your “night time charging with coal” is a moot point, since this is included in the calculations.
The current life of an EV is 5 to 7 years is not true either. Where do u even get this info from. It’s well known by now that battery packs will likely outlasts the rest of the car, if that is what u are aiming at. EV batteries do not degrade as much as they had expected and basically comes down to only a handful of miles reduction after 100K miles. My car is 5 years old and 40K miles and I can’t see any reduction at all. What I do see is that I’ve paid less than $65 since January 1st, roughly 1700 miles.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 this is the same government that told you Covid came from bats they never found...no lab involved, in the 90s that diesel was more clean environmental than gasoline (assuming the mfgs cheat the tests), that masks made a ginormous or any difference in spread, that recycling works, that there was no radiation tests on unwitting hospital patients in the 50s, that....
There is no way that such a simple number can be calculated on such a broad spectrum of applications and manufactured items that didn't even yet exist when they said it...
Like WW2 Donald Duck cartoons....that's propeganda to get you to do what they want. Spend more on new stuff and make their promises and programs look sucessful.
Buy whatever you want. You know you don't really give a crap about carbon or you'd be writing your letters (including this one) with ink and a quill and walking or riding a packed bus to get places.
You'll never save the planet driving a new car.
She forgot to mention sales tax and dmv registration fees on a new vehicle and here in California 🤦♂️ forget about buying a electric vehicle
I’d be interested to know if the cost of replacement and disposal of the batteries is included in your optimistic analysis.
Questions
1. How much will the tax on EV's be to subsidize lost revenue for states? Fuel taxes help pay for many things like road maintenance.
2. Electric is "cheap" now but how high would costs go with increased demand from EV's?
I'm all for EVs but still I'd die before I traded my lifted Jeep that I take offroad in for a EV. All the EV trucks that I've seen have independent suspension which sucks for off-road when compared to solid axles. My worry is EVs will kill alot of mechanic jobs. I'm sure with EVs like Tesla having around 50 separate computers all repairs will have to be done thru the dealership. Which means premium repair prices example my aunt had to pay $1200 for a single sensor replacment. Also what about road tax on gas? Alot of people love paying less for electricity but as more and more EVs hit the road I'm sure states will need to start charging a EV road tax of some kind.
yeah just like autos sadly destroyed the buggy whip sellers, and cell phones destroyed the dial up home phones, and sadly VCR's are a thing of the past... you may want to stop living in the past with your mindset. Mechanics, if talented, will have jobs in other areas those that don't too bad. Regarding your mention of Tesla's you are just simply and completely ignorant as to how they function in terms of their electronics. Road tax, so you'd prefer for the US and other countries to be soleyl dependant upon the middle east for oil (as the smater-than-you politicians and oil companies wnat you to bleieve)... keep drinking that Koolaid, stay dumb, do as your told, make ignorant comments just as the masters want you to.
"All the EV trucks that I've seen have independent suspension which sucks for off-road when compared to solid axles"
The HumVee has an independent suspension. Are you sure that's a problem for off-road? That said, none of the BEVs (other than the just released Rivian) is actually an off-road vehicle.
"My worry is EVs will kill alot of mechanic jobs."
You should see what the car did to manufacture of buggy whips.
"Tesla having around 50 separate computers all repairs will have to be done thru the dealership."
Most modern cars have a large network of seperate computers. Tesla doesn't have dealerships, but I understand your point. There are private tesla repair shops. When I was in an accident, the repairs were not done by Tesla.
"Which means premium repair prices example my aunt had to pay $1200 for a single sensor replacment"
Sounds excessive. Was that on a Tesla?
"Also what about road tax on gas? Alot of people love paying less for electricity but as more and more EVs hit the road I'm sure states will need to start charging a EV road tax of some kind."
Yes. We will need to re-evaluate how we fund roads.
There will still be jobs for mechanics to work on ICE vehicles until the ICE engine goes away...which may never happen. Those same mechanics who now work on ICE vehicles can now train to work on EVs There right now is a shortage of such technicians.
The road tax for electric vehicles is recouped in the registration fee. Speaking of. Tires on an elec. vehicle wear out faster due to the greater weight. Everything is a trade off.
Electricity is cheaper at the moment, once ots a sole source it will be 10 times a gallon of gas. Greed is greed , gas or electric 🤔
The side effect is charging a car or powering a house cannot be separated, Thus The cost of living will increase to pay for everyone to use a e car. I have seen a 50% increase in cost in CA I see a $0.37 per KW charge to deliver electricity on top of the $0.11 KW to use electricity. Yes more to get the electricity than to use it!. A combination of fires, solar power and expanding infrastructure.
I see a couple of problems here. As electricity demand goes up we all pay more (naturally). If this whole green thing goes down and we nolonger rely on fosil fuels, a monopoly has been created with the eletric companies across the u.s. There needs to be competition and options for the people. I honestly think going ev will only go so far, and gasoline will still exist. Majority of people don't take public transportation and probably never will. Can't give people freedom and then take it away!
Well one thing not mentioned is that all electronics are built to last only 5 years, so somewhere around that time you will be hit with extremely high repair costs or a new car.
Which one is cheaper? The one that's paid for. If it's not paid for it belongs to the bank not you.
Switch from gas cars needs to be to public transit, walking, bicycling and shared transportation, then, if you still need a car, get an EV.
Shut it
If your job is 10-20 miles away and there isn't an adequate transit available, how do you get home by walking and biking??? I live in Western NY, in winter we get hammered by lots of snow and cold temperatures. Transit, biking and walking doesn't always work in the real world. EVs are still too expensive unless you get a used one with a fair amount of miles. The break even point in some cases can take over 10 years.
@@bmw803 move closer to work.
I take my escooter to work and moved nearby
@@letsbefreeletsbefree7183 that's always the answer that people without arguments will give you. What do you do when a house close to your job will keep you in a mortgage until you die??? No thanks. And what if your spouse doesnt work close to where you do??
@@bmw803 Ride-sharing? Public transport? Going by bike the 9-10 months each year when no snow exist? So much could be done if we allow ourselves to think outside the box.
I'm against the credit at the dealership. Dealers already markup prices, what will stop them from using the tax credit as a buffer on the price.
To produce 1 electric vehicle battery you must remove:
25,000 lbs of brine for the lithium
30,000 lbs of ore for the cobalt
5,000 lbs of ore for the nickel
25,000 lbs for the copper
All told, 500,000 lbs of earth crust must be dug up for 1 battery.
Also, 84,000 gallons of fossil fuel are needed to move all that earth.
If you drove your vehicle 15k miles a year and got 20 miles a gallon, you could drive your gas burner for
112 years.
And that doesn’t factor in that those batteries last less than 20 years, or that there does not yet exist a planet friendly lithium battery disposal plan. So unless you just love the technology and don’t mind raping the plant, drive a gas burner.
If it's true then it sucks 😞😢
And all that doesn't matter, the government is forcing us to go this way not asking us and who owns these companies Ontario Power Generation, Hydro Quebec, BC Hydro and others. Not only will the price go sky-high, for travel it will also go sky-high to heat our homes.
"25,000 lbs of brine for the lithium" and "30,000 lbs of ore for the cobalt" ROFL how about ZERO you liar.
LiFePO4 Battery made from Hard Rock Lithium from Australia require NONE of that. Stop with the mindless copy and paste propaganda.
"84,000 gallons of fossil fuel are needed to move all that earth" is just an absurd LIE.
@@RG-xr2rc It's Political Propaganda Lies.
@@SuperDaleski1 That make zero logical sense. Those companies can not force it onto you. Electricity is far more competitive than Crude Oil and private citizen have the option to generate their own. The Utilities would have to keep the price reasonable too not incentivize even the small proportion to generate their own. You fail to realize how different Electric supply has Multitude of Sources.
I’m on vacation… I can only drive Approximately 300 miles, then have to stop to recharge for 2 hours plus wait time to get a charging station… 900 mile trip takes me 4 days because we don’t have the charging stations where they need to be, so I might only be able to drive 150 miles because the next charging station is 275 miles…
Electric also uses Fossil fuels to build and to make the electricity …
There are those who believe the "electric" car is cheaper. This may be true until you actually go to buy one. They tend to be more expensive than a regular car so your behind on cost there. Many of the "charging stations" around the country are run by diesel generators so "green" is out. Once the rats and other bugs destroy your battery you are left with a 20,000 dollar bill to replace it to start. So your cost savings are wiped out completely and you are now far into the red for savings. But go ahead and buy an electric car. Your other left wing democrat liberal friends will be so proud of you.
Yes, lithium chewing rats are really a problem.
@@scottfranco1962 Rats don't chew lithium. They do chew insulation and pee on connection points. Learn before you type.
There's nothing liberal about the left. They just gave themselves that name, so stop using that word.
"There are those who believe the "electric" car is cheaper. This may be true until you actually go to buy one. "
I don't even know what this means... but the OP put up their math to establish their case.
"They tend to be more expensive than a regular car so your behind on cost there."
I assume you are referring to purchase price. That depends. My Model 3 is about the size of an M3 and outperforms it. The M3 is more expensive. But, as shown in this video, it is true that the "out the door" price is higher on BEVs.
"Many of the "charging stations" around the country are run by diesel generators so "green" is out."
1) The power grid is 40% green.
2) The remaining 60% is mostly LNG, not diesel.
3) Power plants burn more efficiently than cars.
4) Because there's no idling loss on either a power plant nor a BEV, you'd actually need to compare BEVs to hybrids to even begin to approach the energy efficiently (how much energy they use to operate)... which raises the price on your non-BEV. My model 3's MPGe is ~120 miles/gallon.
5) The grid gets a bit greener every year... so pollution from a BEV (which is already far lower than an ICE) goes down every year.
" Once the rats and other bugs destroy your battery you are left with a 20,000 dollar bill to replace it to start. So your cost savings are wiped out completely and you are now far into the red for savings."
1) Tesla's battery warranty is 100,000 miles. Unless you do something (like crash), Tesla will replace for free.
2) Tesla sells the battery for the model 3 long range for $13,500, and that price moves down over time.
"But go ahead and buy an electric car. Your other left wing democrat liberal friends will be so proud of you."
I love mine. It's faster than your car by a long shot and driving 300 miles costs me about $3.50 (since my solar system, assuming it lives only as long as the the 25-year warranty, is about $0.06/kwh.
I also don't miss dealerships lying to me about maintenance I don't need (as if the thousands in maintenance I did need wasn't bad enough). I don't miss having to stop for gas (like most people, I only go more than 150mi from my house on a few occasions per year). I love the added features (like dog mode for when I am travelling). My liberal and conservative friends really like my car.
But you know what's clear to me from your last comment? Your position is ideological rather than practical.
I am not anti-EV but when it comes to the EV argument, it reminds me of a customer I had years ago when I was trying to sell him a data network data-saving device. He asked me "how much is it going to cost me to save some money ?" This video is very applicable to UK also. Our GOVT has reined right back any subsidies for charging points or cost of sale rebates on all but relatively cheap EV's. Also, most sensible people dont buy brand new, BUT in the UK there is no meaningful used EV market yet.
Cost of sale rebate in UK is negligible compared to tax /NI savings if you lease an EV on a salary sacrifice scheme. Basically all the fleet buyers are going electric right now, so used EV market will swing up in three years time
@@gothmog2441 You are right of course, but me being retired and wanting a cash purchase this was no good to me at all. But I do believe you are right on the used market. I had a company car for 20 years until about 2004 when I chose to go private and take an allowance - I would love to crunch the numbers now. Trouble is when say another 5% of the UK car market is electric, how will the grid cope as there is only a tiny safety margin at peak demand times now and not all cars will be charged at 01:00 ?
Who will want a used EV? When the battery will have how much life left until replacement? At 90,000 miles they will pretty much be useless
Im a mobile detailer in the UK.
My current van is a 20 year old 450,000mile Vauxhall combo diesel. Even loaded I get 50mpg, 800+ miles per 5 min fill up.
I paid £1500 for it, 14 years ago!
I hired a Nissan EV van for a month. I gave the thing back after 2 weeks because I was having to cancel appointments and loosing money.
I cannot charge at home so even if I bought one. I'd be reliant on public charging.
The EV van allegedly had a 200 mile range.
On a typical day. I drive 150miles per day.
Except. Once I'd loaded the van for work inc the water tank. I was getting 50 miles from a charge.
I had to charge the thing 3 times per day! Thats around 4 hours wasted per day!.
My average day with the EV:
Take missus to work. She comes home on the bus.
Charge the van... Yawn.
Do 1st job...
Drive to the charge point, wait in a 3 or 4 deep queue and eventually charge the van.
Cancel 2nd job because of the charging issue.
Charge the van so its ready for taking the missus to work.
If we did any socialising, shopping etc... I'd need to visit the charger again before turning in for the night or we wouldnt have enough juice to take the missus to work in the morning.
Charging the van isnt just the time charging the thing.
Theres the time to drive to the charge point (not many around here).
Waiting for a charger to be available if someone is already there. I have been 5 deep in a queue.
I really despair for the future. EV's are not good enough. The range is too short and the charge time too long. public charging facilities are sketchy at best.
I live in a city of 320,000 people. My nearest public charge point is 8 miles away, there is just 2 points. The next charge points are a further 15 miles away across the city.
I hate card payments. I have lost so many credit cards... I leave it at home, Im not good with cards.. I can buy diesel with cash... I like cash, I know where I am with cash.
The local bus company has some electric buses... They are always freezing cold and the drivers are not allowed to turn on the heaters on because it kills the range, the buses are constantly getting delayed or cancelled because of them needing charging or sitting dead by the side of the road.
What's about battery life time the most expensive part of the EV?
How much is to replace it at the vehicle life time as you stated?
Why replace the battery at the end of the vehicle life time? By then the battery would be running at reduced capacity, not completely dead.
It would be good to do a comparison including hydrogen fuel cars as well. It seems, every fuel has problems but the fuel that we can adapt to our daily lifestyle with the least inconvenience is the one the majority will go with. Maybe hydrogen is the answer, or maybe not, you tell me.
Hydrogen is an energy transport not an energy source. You cannot drill for Hydrogen. Hydrogen is created on an industrial scale by steam reforming. This process releases CO2 into the atmosphere.
You're not taking into consideration the cost of repairing the propulsion system components. When the car requires a battery or propulsion motor the cost of these repairs is prohibitive. In addition, is anyone considering the recycling of the batteries? Not to mention the pollution created in generating electricity, which will only be cured by getting over our unnecessary fear of nuclear power plants. Electric vehicles should be a choice, not a mandate to the consumer, and at current technology still not the cure all.
You will never see me with a full electric vehicle. I go deep into the woods, haul heavy loads and drive long distances. Not in urban areas. Plus, look at the upkeep on these cars. Look where is says at some many miles or years you have to change out the battery. Then look at the replacement cost of said battery. They have their places, yet not in my world in the places I go.
Excellent video! There is however one major thing that has been over looked that would be worth considering. ROI (trade in value) Comparing two vehicles one hybrid, the other full electric. As a consumer that puts on 13k miles a year I would loose a little over ten thousand dollars going electric after fuel savings and maintenance is considered. Open a spread sheet and try a comparison with the Chevy Bolt (electric) and a Toyota Venza (Hybrid). After ten years of ownership the Venza would be worth 15k, the Bolt, maybe 2k? No one buys an electric used vehicle with a 15k+ battery replacement bill. Our lot is full of them to be hauled away for auction, no one wants them. That in turn drives up new car prices further due to vehicle demand. How much more will you pay for the next one as a result? Factor in the other points you've raised. Don't really see this as a sustainable future for transportation with affordability. Like health insure, it's just pay more for less.
Gas pries up 50% this year, 4 years from now maybe 200% as big oil loses profits due to electrics and screws those who still have oil burners.
Good joke, Dad! What a comparison! A Bolt!!! Venza hybrid! Spread sheets! Numbers thrown all over the place! Too funny!!! Stop it already!!! I can't breathe! Not a sustainable for future transportation affordability! Too much! (Comparing to a Bolt!!!) >>>> should get more comical and change Garage for BOZO!
Buy a Bolt for 2K, swap out the batter for 15K, and you've got yourself a basically new car for 17K, Can't say that about the Venza.
What wasn’t mentioned, and seems to missing from the equation is what is the “lifetime” of the car. That is a major contributor to the cost. The average battery life for both is 3-4 years, with the EV battery costing~$10k and the CV costing around $200. What rates were used to charge the EV? What is the average distance driven, per day? How about disposal of the batteries (not just cost to get rid of it, but costs to the environment. Can the grid support the additional load to charge the cars being pushed?
This has already been calculated and an EV battery lasts 10 years or more. Your numbers seem to be made up.
3 years? lol do some research
You can not compare a phone battery to a car battery. Approximately at 1000 charging cycles, a battery loses about 25% capacity. For phone battery, it gets recharge once a day so it lasts 3 years. For car battery, it get recharge once a week so it lasts 20 years. Actually you asked a lot of simple things that the answer could be found online.
EV is charged at night during off peak so it does not add any more load to the grid.
Tesla batteries are so well made that they don’t have too many problems, but a lot of other Ev do
You forgot to include the cost to replace the batteries every 50,000miles aprox (thats around $15,000) and the batteries dont last very long in extreme cold. Also insurance companies are beginning to refuse to insure your home if you park in a garage due to the high number of recent fires cause by faulty batteries. Another point you forget to make is the electrical grid is already taxed to the max and this will cause even more stress on it
Not sure what that info is from but it's totally wrong. There are pruis taxies with 400k or 600k miles all original motor and batteries. Tesla's with 120k miles that their batteries have only lost 5% total capacity. Even Kia has a 120 month 100k warranty on the entire hybrid system including batteries. And each generation of batteries improves over the earlier ones. Charging at home costs about 1/4 as much as the gas equivalent, maybe even 1/5 with gas prices getting near $5 again.
@@SkaBob LOL, clearly you haven’t talked to owners of these. Particularly up north in colder climates the batteries are not lasting
My uber liberal friend in Raleigh, NC traded in her Honda Civic for an EV and now she is complaining that her electric bill has gone up more than what she used to spend for gasoline.
Considering the average Kwh price in NC is 12 cents and a Honda Civic gets at best 40 MPG, I'd say you're lying.
The government is subsiding the purchase. How much is battery replacement? How is recycling the batteries going? The electricity that charges EVs come from coal and natural gas. The minerals that are used for batteries are mined from large quarries. You can’t even charged these cars to 100%. Most manufacturers limit the charge to 85%.
Look, if the technology was ready for prime time, government (i.e. taxpayers) would have to subsidize it. Instead of letting technology progress naturally, world governments are forcing it down our throats now. The government doesn’t tell people the truth about EVs.
Who is forcing you to buy an EV?
@@SpottedSharks the Biden administration. It’s actually came out of Biden and other democratic politician’s mouth that they wanted the price of gas to stay high to push the population towards EVs. And let’s not forget that the WEF is pushing towards that goal as well.
EVs do need reduction gear oil changes and traction battery pack coolant changes. In the case of the former, the oil could need changing in as little as every 11,000mi to a maximum of 40-50,000mi. In the case of the latter, the coolant, will need changing at around 80,000mi or less.
As to servicing, the costs are roughly the same as ICEd vehicles during warranty period. As to keep the warranty, the vehicle must be serviced as per manufacturer stated periods. And while EVs generally need less complex maintenance, dealers are charging the same as ICEd vehicles.
Good recognition that the richer you are, the more likely it is, that you’ll be able to afford an EV; and that you’d be able to actually save by owning one. Also, government subsides/monetary incentives, are paid for by every taxpayer - but only get handed out to those that can already afford an EV, even without saving for the purchase.
For every $/€/£ given to an EV buyer, there’s that same amount of $s/€s/£s, not being spent on healthcare; not being spent on transport infrastructure; not being spent on the environment; not being spent on emergency services. You’ve got to answer the questions. Do you want government money given to people who don’t need it and not spent on healthcare+on transport infrastructure+the environment+emergency services? While at the same time, as penalising every taxpayer & non-taxpayer, who doesn’t own an EV. Or do you want your taxes to help pay for, healthcare+transport infrastructure+the environment+emergency services?
oil changes for what? there are some for the transmission, but not much else. unlike say an ICE, where there are changes for the engine, and those other bits too (both Evs and ICE have essentially are transmissions). have you read an EV manufacturer recommendation's? i have, as i have an EV, and have had ICE too, they arent even close as to what is recommended and the costs from the dealers is a lot less, though you do have to keep an eye on them, just like you do for every thing else (one tried to do an oil change in my EV, we kinda wonder exactly what they going to do, they eventually relented on that). well the cheapest EV today, costs about $27,000, and thats without the tax credit (that OEM has sold too many cars). and it is a real car (unlike some early ones), just dont expect to have 200 miles of range. i do like your comparison on taxes, though i would expand it a lot, to include things like gas tax (it should be higher, hasnt changed in over 20 years, and costs to build roads have gone up a lot in that time, which i why i dont complain about the fee EVs pay because they dont pay gas tax. but state gas taxes havent gone up either), and i think we have the most inefficient, lowest effective and over priced health care 'system' (looks more like a kludge than a system). we pay the most and get less for it, just based on how long we in the US live (our life spans in the US have been going down, we arent even close to the longest lived any more. and we spend more than all countries do. well the impact of ICE vehicles on the environment are well known, there is the impact of drilling for oil (and gas and diesel is all generated from oil) transporting it to refineries, or from there eventually to the gas station. and the amount of electricity to run a refinery, or gas station isnt trivial. and the fuels used to transport it (by ships or trucks) isnt trivial either . and then there are pipelines, which seem to be more of a threat than what seems like a simple thing, but its not so safe as one ould think. and then there is transporting oil by train, which would seem to be safe right> its not, seems that there are more than a few times where train just explodes, because of traffic issues on the track, or going to fast. course the tax credit is at $7500 per qualified car (to make it easy we can just use rough numbers). if there were 1 million EVs sold every year, and all of them got the full amount (they dont) the total tax credit would be about $7.5. sounds big huh? but consider how much the tax credits given to the oil industry is, or airlines, or just about any other big business (health care??). the ev tax credit is a rounding error those tax credit at best. and of course emergency services and some of the roads in a state are funded by the states (mostly) by theie taxes. which most dont have any sort of tax credit for EVs at all. and most of the health care spending in the US is federal, states tend to ignore that if they can (and they do even if they cant,,,just because) . in a 3trillion budget ( a trillion = about 100000 billion )
@@davwill124 - Valid points there, though I will have to take your word on many points, as my knowledge & understanding of U.S. infrastructure is limited, as I live in Brexitania. And in Brexitania, 72-78% of end-user purchase costs of fossil fuels, is taken as various taxes. Though big oil corps pay no taxes in Brexitania, they are given hundreds of £bn of tax payers’ money, in both direct payments & ‘tax breaks’, which in itself is ridiculous, as they pay no taxes here.
In Brexitania there is no correlation between the buyer’s income and how much they get when buying a new EV. Brexitania’s new EV grant, is not a tax credit and is applied at point of payment, (the grant payment is not available on leased vehicles). There is a standard sum; that sum has reduced over the past 10-8yrs. Eight years ago, the one-off government payout was around £8,500, two years ago it was £3,500, today it is £1,500 per new EV. There has been no and there is no present grant like payment, for purchase of second-user EVs. If the vehicle is a work specific EV, the grant is around £8,000 per car/small van. I don’t know about larger vehicles such as buses, wheeled dump trucks.
I'd love the $7500 upfront along with whatever amount my state may give me. Couple that with my trade in and I can petty much slash the amount I need to finance in half.
Her math was basic because it doesn't factor in taxes, paperwork cost, delivery cost, title and tags and any other incidental costs.
I appreciate your video. Insurance is also more expensive for EV it looks like as it cost more to replace. Another thing to consider is the distance and link to recharge you might have to invest into a hotel room depending on where you live to charge overnight
havent seen that at all, course it depends on how you drive, what and where. drive a Vette and insurance will be high no matter where you are, never mid some of the exotics, or luxury cars. and most if those are ICE, not EV
@@davwill124 the T3/Leaf is basically a cheap mainstream small sedan equivalent. Iconic EV is a cheap CUV. Bolt is an econobox like a Civic, Colt or Fiesta...so if the insurance is different in those classes to their EV equivalent that could be considered the additional insurance premium.
Most EVs are not Model S or Mustangs today. They're T3s and Leafs.
EV's are unafordable unless you can afford to replace them as the battery pack begins to die. If forced upon everyone most will end up with a useless and expensive front lawn ornament
$37,390 - $20,500 = $16,890. The historical average return of the S&P 500 is about 13% if I remember correctly. Put your $16,890 savings in the S&P 500, and, coumpunded at 13% for 10 yeas, you end up with $57,334.20. Yes, it could be less, but it could also be more. EVs are super-cool, but they need to come down in price a lot to make financial sense. I have nothing against rich people buying them, but poor people shouldn't be paying for rich people's luxury toys or subsidising their virtue signalling.
I think this was a very informative video on electric cars. The only thing I believe is missed is that maintenance on the car was off in my mind since batteries need to be replaced which can come with a 10-15k price tag. This can happen between 10-15 years of the life of the car. Most people don't Keep cars that long. Just a note.
"most people" aka screw the people who are frugal or can't afford a new car every time the next comes out
well, newer EVs have batteries that will last about 20 years (even some of the 2012 Tesla still have their original batteries), course all of this is based on how and where you drive (the same goes for ICE cars too). and your right, most dont keep longer than 5 years, if that. cause in an ICE car, Maintenace starts to really start to climb
@@davwill124 2 cars, 18 years old both. Sure we do.
@@davwill124 I dislike 👎 tesla
@@davwill124 Im running a 1968 Buick Wildcat (Owned for 35 years)
I also own a 20 year old diesel van with 450,000 miles on the clock that Ive owned for the last 14 years. The van cost me £1500 and does 800 miles per fill up.
I cannot charge at home and public EV charging in the UK is expensive and sketchy at best.
I know of 2 poorly built early model Teslas here in the UK that have both had their batteries fail @ £24,000 each to replace. One of them has only done 48,000 miles, the other one had around 100,000 miles.
I keep my cars for as long as they keep running and dont cost a fortune to fix.
This analysis is flawed on many levels:
1. Comparing one car with incentives to another without ones is unfair.
2. How was the coast savings calculated? What assumptions were made? Gas prices and electricity costs vary state to state. What percentage of highway deriving was assumed (electricity at fast chargers costs significantly more than at home).
3. Upfront cost is much more important than fuel savings in many years to come. A quick example: one buys Kona hybrid for $20,000 and invests the saved $17,000 in and Index fund. Say, S&P500, ~10% annual return (or say ~7% inflation adjusted). That's approximately $1000 income every year after 15% Capital Gain tax. Use this $1000 tom cover the difference in gas costs + maintenance and the electricity costs and keep the Principal capital invested. At the end of your car life the gas car owner comes $17,000 ahead. That's assuming the electric car battery doesn't die sooner, in which case the gas car owner is even further ahead.
4. A road trip would require multiple stops for charging. Now factor in your time cost for those stops (at a reasonable hourly rate).
LOL That is just absurd factors. To use investment as excuse is ABSURD as it's a high risk outcome. Even if you put money it what seems like safe index fund. There is no guarantee the financial firms won't just scam you or declare bankruptcy. Times have changed there is not such thing as a safe place to park your money. Every investment is a risk the instant you part with the money. Your No. 3 argument could be outright $17,000 Total LOSS.
ROFL You are complaining about the cost of waiting to charge on an Infrequent road trip while to Eat, Toilet and/or Stretch legs Take a walk. While the time required not get scammed while investing $17,000 is Free?
Great job! Thanks for clarifying the tax credit. I’m sure most people are not aware of how it works.
But did the video clarify or even remotely answer the title of the vid? No!
Just like cash for clunkers by Obama where do you think the money came from from John q taxpayer like I said before nothing is free all these democrat give away programs all come from tax payer a wake up people and smell the coffee if you have a job your paying for this crap
But the question is do you make enough to take advantage of the tax credit?
Just to make a point though, most people don't keep their cars that long, SO how does that figure in? So most people wont be able to AFFORD an EV. WOW, kinda defeats the whole point of EV's.
I love so much that she went into detail about who gets this tax credit and how to fix that. This is how the US works, subsidies only for the richer of us - EVs, private college, yachts, etc. Why would they build a subsidy system that helps you buy things you don't actually need to survive, and only if your income is unusually high? Because it benefits the haves and excludes the have-nots.
I guess climate change doesn't exist in your world
@@socalsp3 You didn't understand my point. Look again.
And how exactly are we “burning up the planet” and who has during a trip over 3 hours just to wait to fully charge the batteries when on a longer trip? I can be fully “charged” with fuel and back on the road in less than 5 minutes.
Who cares. It’s The fast decrease of the range and the nightmare charging situation makes an EV a nightmare to own! I had a 2021 Audi Etron for 3 months. It’s was such a pain the ass for the 2 reasons I mentioned, I took a 10k loss just to get rid of it . This EV hype is all bullshit. I won’t get sucked in again!
And of top of that , it takes 10 years to break even. Pay double the money to save on gas. How the fuck can someone fall in this scam?
Good analysis, in particular with regard to the EV tax credit. The tax credit is not a rebate and, as the video explains, you have to have enough taxable income to take advantage of it. If the government want to speed up the adoption of EVs they should offer a rebate that applies directly to the sticker price. Also, something that isn't talked about here is the environmental impact of mining the rare earth metals, eg Lithium, to make EV batteries and then recycling them at "end of life". Lithium is a serious pollutant if it isn't recycled or disposed of properly. EVs can be part of the solution to pollution and global warming only if they are properly implemented.
Better to have government get out of the way completely and let the market work. You will get a better product at a better price and it won't cost tax payers trillions. In the mean time, consider the fact that we will continue to need and use fossil fuels for many years, including powering the nation that will need to charge electric vehicles.
It was designed by politicians and their friends for politicians and their friends.
It is more regressive than these millionaire tax reforms that were screamed about by one party vs another.
Most of the conspicuous consumption tax credits are for the over $100k city/suburb set.
@@dwest4473 Can you site any examples where that's been the case? The reason we have pollution controls on ICE vehicles for instance is because of government regulation. Market forces couldn't care less about environmental impacts.
@@mostguitarswins Nearly every innovation for transportation and energy production has been dominated by private industry. The cleanest countries in the world are those that have learned to access and use cheap energy sources. If US govt desires more rapid transition to EVs it should kill corporate taxes, allow mining of metals necessary for batteries, continue to allow extraction and pipeline transport of fossil fuels, and let the market decide the best path. BTW, AMTRAk has a horrible record of losing money in all but a couple years of its existence.
@@dwest4473 I think we may be talking about different things. I'm not suggesting that the government get into the EV business. I agree that the private sector is going to provide the viable solutions. There's a role for government though (in my humble opinion) of representing those things that the private sector typically ignores. The Clean Air Act and the banning of lead in gasoline are examples of the government stepping in to do things that the private sector did not/would not do voluntarily. The "market" has no conscience per se so I would not expect it to consider things like long term health impacts, etc.
#1 Gas cars don’t burn up the PlanIt. #2 you didn’t talk about the cost of operating gas cars #3 you didn’t talk about what happens when those batteries go bad #4 you didn’t talk about the cost of producing batteries. I think your report is flawed imho
If people want to use electric filling stations, which will be taxed heavily, it should be done by the private sector, not by tax payer money.
Used EVs coming off of lease are a fantastic deal. When a car is leased, the $7500 tax credit is used by the dealer. After the lease expires in two years, the cost of the used vehicle can be less than 50% of the Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price. Which is why I was able to purchase a 2 year old BMW i3 electric vehicle with only 13000 miles on it for $18000 when its original MSRP was over $40000. Now add in that in the state of Washington that I get an additional sales tax break for both the purchase of the EV and any costs of a charging station. The tax break applies up to $16000 for a vehicle, which means I only paid $160 in sales tax using the 8% tax rate. Sure the battery might not have the life that a new battery might have but they don't degrade as fast as people imagine that they do. And with a 120 mile range, I'm very rarely going to ever need to be concerned about not being able to drive anywhere local. And since I bought it from the dealer, I was able to get BMW financing for 3-years at close to 0% financing.
Did you get a 2018 or 2019?
I got a 2021 and received $25k off the top of the car at the dealership, original MSRP was $60k, the dealer took off $10k and I came in with a $5000 grant, plus I qualified for the $7500 and $2000 tax credits.
Yup, my father (at 80yrs old) did almost exactly the same thing. He wanted to dip his hand into EVs for the environment... he mostly tootles around town these days and driving an ICE vehicle is extremely polluting under those conditions. A used i3 was the perfect ticket for him. Light (for an EV), short-range, and very efficient. Plus he gets to charge it for free in my driveway when he visits :-). But apart from that occasional license, he just charges it on a 120V extension cord at home once a week or so.
-Matt
So when you occasionally want to go more than 100 miles in a day....what ya going to do. Like a trip destination of 500 miles each way?
Recharge 4 times at 3 hrs of waiting times for an 8 hour trip becoming 11?
Rent an ICE or hybrid, which admits fresh ICE cars must still be available?
Flight at $300 a seat plus parking plus rental car. Train for $150 a seat plus parking plus rental car.
Have an extra ICE car in the garage,,,,so twice the expense for just those special needs.
Charge twice a day, with a hotel stay of $200 + an extra day of restaurants for a relatively short trip drive?
EV with 100 mi functional safe range are ideal for just town commuting, but then so is a bus. I'd buy one for a college child just for simplicity and limiting ROAD TRIP, but the college would have to have chargers and the car better be $4k or less as coeds destroy cars.
A 100mi range car probably means you are a 20 to 30 mile a day driver. Good. That costs $3 a day in gasoline at $4/gal in most US areas for an equivalent sized vehicle. Hardly a major expense compared to $1 a day in electricity for the same drive.
@@mamadouaziza2536 2018
@@STho205
NOPE!!!!
My electric car has an electric range of 175 miles and it also has a gas generator that gives me unlimited miles. My car can also charge while I am driving and it only takes 30 minutes on Level 3 to go from empty to 80% battery charge. There are hundreds of public chargers where I live and driving beyond the 175 electric miles in my car in one single trip isn't an issue for me. I drive to the bay area from Orange County often.
Always buy a car that fits your lifestyle. If you only drive within an Urban area that has plenty of public chargers, the smaller range EVs will suit you especially if you only want to charge twice a week.
Pure EV's and those that cover them really love to skip over the fact that they take forever to refuel compared to gas powered cars, I can go from running on vapors to full in about 10 minutes, who wants to sit and an EV charging station for a few hours for every few hundred miles traveled. EV's will fill a niche market, especially as and around the town commuter and errand type car, so the fit the average American driver needs, they will need two cars, the EV for around town and a real car for trips. Another thing often skipped is driving in very cold weather, battery range drops substantially. EV's are a long way from the mainstream and will be for a long time.
It's a huge savings... If you're rich😂. Thank you so much for the working class qualifiers! I like the idea of discounting the $7500 at the point of purchase, and the 500,000 charging stations!
The federal charging stations don't make sense though. You can charge at home
I've always wondered how gas/diesel is cleaner than electric when having all electric cars means generating more electricity, which often is using means to generate said electricity still pollutes the environment. Your car fuel bill goes down, but your electric will skyrocket. So where is that balance? And fossil fuel cars can run on other forms of fuel, and we know this because they ALREADY HAVE THEM. Electric cars still pollute the environment, they just do it in a different way.
Car companies have so many patterns on how to make car use less gas but the rich a. Holes don't want to help the problem. They just want more money.
You forgot to mention the lifetime of the batteries, eventual battery replacement cost, reduced performance of the batteries over time and how they actually perform in cold climates.
Most cars are charged at 50kw stations now running about a quarter per minute. 48 amps at 240 volts takes about 6 hours and comes to about 75 dollars for a full charge to go your 250 miles to the next charge station. The more EV cars using the stations, the more the price will increase.
Of course you can charge at home with 120 volt charger and it takes about 11 hours to 'fill' the batteries and cost about 15 cents per minute. The two main problems with home charging is that most people live in apartments or rentals and most houses have 100 amp electric circuitry which negates most off the US from buying these vehicles.
The main problem with service of electric autos is that the battery used is hundreds of pounds sitting underneath the vehicle and the service tech needs a car lift to get to it and remove it for service. The other factor in service is that the battery is extremely dangerous and it takes specialized workers to successfully repair it. Claiming that service will be less on unproven technology is simply wishful thinking.
Excellent job posting misinformation.
@@SpottedSharks Yet you were unable to refute any of it.
lets see
We have between 200 and 300 years minimum of gas and oil in North America alone. Yet some politicians want to move the US toward a power supply that is much more expensive, harder to store, requires the mining of rare earth metals and is unreliable. Remember the Texas winter blackout? Not to mention that the extraction and refining of gasoline requires far less real estate than wind and solar.
Now why would we want to change to a fuel system that has proven not to work in many European countries including Spain and Germany who are importing Natural Gas and petroleum from Russia?
Well the manufacturers and politicians who push it will get money and power. Create a fake crisis, offer a fake solution that is only remotely feasible if you demonize and destroy the energy source that is responsible for the reduction of poverty around the world because of inexpensive power and mass agriculture that 100% REQUIRES Petroleum and Natural gas. Take away that and millions of people around the world will starve. Because of BIden's crusade against the Gas and Oil industry in the US food prices have already skyrocketed. Imagine what that does to poor people.
Most people cannot afford a 60-80 thousand dollar car. But no worries part of the plan is to end private ownership of cars and the forced urbanization of people.
So the choice of gas powered vs electric will be irrelevant.....you won't have a choice or a car.
Remember, if you voted democrat in the last election because "orange man sends mean tweets" this is what you have to look forward to.
BTW what preceded the worst revolutions in world history (French, Russian etc......) ? Scarcity of food/ increase in food prices.
No, if we wanna avoid burning up the planet we need to focus to make public transport more environmentally friendly and get rid of most cars, either ICE or EV's. It still baffles that people don't get that EV's are here to save the car industry, not the environment. And another thing which should be mentioned, for many EV's, depending on the battery size, only after they've been driven thousands of miles they become "green".
EVs are greenER than gas cars and absolutely much more fun to drive.
Sure they are, little buddy!
You really want to save money, don't by another car. keep the one you have. It is also more environmentally freindly.
While the us is going electric and making poor poorer the rest of the world going oil and gettting much stronger
Don’t forget to add in the cost of your house and/or garage burning down from improper charging - just happened to my in-laws.
The replacement costs and performance issues relating to the batteries are the thing you are not talking about
I live in Australia and i was told by a dealer that Ev buyers will be paying about .02 cents per kilometre tax, to offset the loss from not using petrol.
A good reason to drive hybrid. I wouldn't pay by the mile. No way! Government is always there to catch people. I vehemently believe that right now driving a hybrid is the way to go.
What about the costs for all the batteries- the dirty mining in third world counties, and the future disposal of batteries for EV's? How is that better for the environment right now?
??? Why is the government giving tax brakes for E.V. owners?! 😮 ???
Because we reduce the demand for gasoline so there's more left for you. You're welcome.
I work as a contractor. There is zero room for an electric vehicle in my world. Not even GM’s new truck.
So...... Ummm if we go to all electric, how do you plan to move freight? 300 mile range on cars, trucks would be significantly shorter range, sure to payload and are expected to haul longer distances...... Pretty much everything we consume gets half by truck at some point....
I'm just curious
I also can buy a used car for a lot less than the 20k compared to. If you are handy with gas cars? You can pick one up for way less and work on it. How much will a used 10 year old EV car be worth on trade in? Unless a new battery is provided, I wouldn't give you $2k. I know how much a 10 year old Toyota is going for and is really generous right now.