'SCIENTIFIC' API PLUGIN SHOOTOUT || PLUGIN ALLIANCE LINDELL 50 SERIES VS ACUSTICA AUDIO PINK 4
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- PLUGIN ALLIANCE LINDELL AUDIO 50 SERIES vs ACUSTICA AUDIO PINK || API Channel strip plugin shootout
Lindell 50 channel.. its finally out.. and that means its time for an API plugin comparison.. who you guessed .. acustica audio plugins!
So.. Dirk Ulrich, CEO of plugin alliance decided to tell everyone that my test setup in the previous audio test was wrong. So I decided to go back and match linear frequency response curves using the proportional q and ensuring that everything was default to the api hardware settings.
This includes an api 2500 compressor plugin shootout as well as comparisons of APU 500A, 500B and 560 eqs in Pro tools 2020. These API hardware units will be found in most audio engineering studios and have found there way into most audio engineers arsenals. Its a plugin review i've certainly been waiting to do for quite some time!
In usual mixing wednesday fashion, a Paul Third plugin demo wouldnt be proper unless it included DDMF plugin doctor to check out linear frequency response and hofa blind test plugin will be used in the plugin shootouts and mvmeter 2 will be used to ensure all units are recieving -18dbvu.
This plugin is included in our MEGA Bundle and MIX & MASTER Bundle Subscriptions at no extra cost! .. audio plugins free!! .. kind of
Transform your music production DAW into an analog desk
There’s a tight and powerful sound to API consoles, preamps, and EQs that have made them some of the world’s favorites for creating professional-sounding drums, guitars, synths, and more with attitude and presence. Thanks to Brainworx’s patented Tolerance Modeling Technology* (TMT), you can now access the most convincing model of these classic consoles ever, including the slight channel-to-channel variances in the values of their analog components.
Truly a universe of choices
The Lindell 50 Series does more than just model a single console. It provides you with an array of choices in the dynamics and EQ sections, allowing you to swap in your favorite style of these classic 500-series modules. Use them on busses or individual tracks.
Multiple EQ options
Choose between three classic EQs - the semi-parametric 50A EQ for three-band processing, the 50B for four bands, and the 60 for a precision graphic EQ for radically reshaping sounds in a way that’s as transparent and flexible as it is fun.
Two amazing compressors
The VCA compressor models API’s high end 2500 series compressor, with additional controls to improve upon the original. Meanwhile, the included FET compressor got the tone, simplicity, and ease of use of the original 500 series, as it is modeled after the famous API 525 compressor.
* Brainworx Audio's Tolerance Modeling Technology (TMT) is protected under the following patent: US Patent No. 10,725,727
Legal Disclaimer: The Lindell Audio 50 Series plugin was developed by Brainworx and Lindell Audio using their own modeling techniques, studying original products from API. The names 500-series, API, 2500 are trademarks of Automated Processes, Inc. which is unaffiliated with Brainworx. Automated Processes, Inc. has not licensed any intellectual property for use in the Lindell Audio 50 Series, nor have they endorsed or supported the 50 Series in any manner.
FEATURES
72 different TMT (US Patent No. 10,725,727) channel emulations in one plugin, just like a real console
Switch between 3 different EQs modeled after the most popular 500-series lunchbox designs
Switch between 2 different compressors, VCA, and FET.
Emulation of classic API noise gate and expander
Capture the full, tight, and punchy tone of the classic API preamps, with automatic gain compensation
Continuously variable THD and Virtual Gain controls to add colorful saturation and/or simulated analog noise independently or globally
Scalable UI to adapt to your screen size and workflow
Loaded with plenty of useful presets to give you a starting place for finding your soundPLUGIN ALLIANCE LINDELL 50 SERIES VS ACUSTICA AUDIO PINK || 'SCIENTIFIC' API PLUGIN SHOOTOUT
Remember and leave your opinion and let's keep all this as a bit of fun 🤓
Also my patreon link if you want to get involved with the analog vs digital 🤓
PATREON PAGE
www.patreon.com/mixingwedesdays
Dear Paul III. King of the Vikings, do I need Aqua in order to use Acustica plugs? I checked the oversampling option in Lindell 50. At max. rate my computer showed 108% CPU overload. :-D How does the CPU behave on Pink compared to Lindell? Thx!
X8 oversampling in Lindell is the same CPU as pink with insane mode on compressor on my computer. Without insane mode on comp pink is actually more cpu effective than Lindell at X8.
You need to install aquarius to install acustica plugs online (like waves central and plugin alliance stuff using the app) but after install just like any other plugin tbh
@@PaulThird, thank you so much! So no need to get Aqua? Do I get u right? Did u get Pensado EQ? Seems 2b a great plug 4 subtile improvement and it's only 69 Trump units until 24th of Jan.
aqua is just the name of that series of plugins. It's not something seperate that you buy haha
I tried out the pensado very quickly one day and didn't really get it BUT it has an autogain function which to me is a massive inclusion as you aren't being swayed by loudness so it is something I plan on going back to one day.
@@PaulThird, I just saw it's only Aquarius to be installed and not Aqua. And they are spaghetti and not a trump company.
The fact that Dirk Ulrich spent some of his precious time on you is awesome. You are coming up fast Paul, keep it up!
I genuinely hope that my test is now right and not wrong 😜 haha
In all seriousness though I want to engage with the plugin developers in an honest environment where I can learn more. I don't want to be stuck slugging mud about. I'll always listen.. Sometimes that may lead to a million questions but that's the risk you take letting me in 🤣
Hopefully I've attracted his attention with this video in the right way where he knows he can contact me and discuss anything he's unhappy with and we can discuss more about the products, how they are made bla bla
I'm here to learn and gain more knowledge about the audio technology of today 🤓
In my opinion, the changes are so subtle (some more than others), that I can only tell because I'm listening critically. I'm sure the components in the modeled units play a role in the differences too. Maybe the Lindell sounds just like the API they modeled, and maybe the Acustica sounds just like the API they modeled, and they're different. Anyway, great video!!!
excellent point.
I'm on small computer speakers and can still clearly hear a difference between the PA and Pink. I think you did a super job with this comparison.
Thank you 🤓🤓🤓
I could tell by the transients. The Acustica sounds like Waves Smack is baked in. When you played the full mix I preferred the softer, rounder transients of the Lindell, go figure? The Acoustica in the end... I would've ran through some saturation plugin on the master bus to tame some of the sharp peaks. But I lean towards darker mixes with the top shaved a bit.
I would be very happy with either. We are truly spoiled. I remember mixing when the waves Q10 eq and C1 comp was the only choice over 20 years ago.
It's kind of crazy those plugins are still for sale...??? but in all honesty, a great song, with a great performance is tough to screw up. If you are halfway competent. So using plugin X over plugin Y is not ever going to be what makes a great song great to the consumer. No regular music listener is ever going say... "yea it's a good song but did you hear the THD in the 4k range when the singer clipped the variable impedance microphone.
BTW... I love the scientific approach, I like the blind tests, & the graphs and charts.
Keep the videos coming, and good luck in your endeavour.
Thanks so much Walt.
Yeah what I've found most interesting is the diffrence in how what I deem essential in my mixes is not for others. Somebody told me that Greg Scott who from kush audio is the same as yourself and he kind of makes his plugins that way as he feels pop music is too bright and prefers smoother top end and mixes darker.
Again no right and wrong answers and I find it so interesting the difference in how we all perceive things. I have been thinking recently that maybe I mix too bright which is why I am still considering moving to AA cola (cadac) as its darker and can't be pushed like the manley massive passive.
Many perceive a lot of modern mixes to be too bright but still in the charts being consumed by millions. But as you said. The end listener hears the song so it really only is engineers that hear those differences.
Whats this shootout has proved to me that there are tools for everybody now and it's all at arms length where as 10 years ago everything costed an arm and a leg and the options weren't too great.. No where near like today 🤓
1st and most importantly, THANK YOU Paul for your effort and willingness to dive deeper and share your findings! this video is no different than what I've come to expect from you so keep up the good work!
2nd, avid AA and PA user here so I will try to make this simple. I swear by Pink. I use it in mastering, swear by it for mixing and love the sound it imparts on my work. period. but we ALL know about the premium CPU tax that AA plugins charge. add that to a full session and yea, tough to run a full AA mix without the latest and greatest machine, which is why I was so excited about the Lindell 50! the fact for me is, L50 sounds this good as an algo-based offering AND for what it might lose in sound, it makes up for in overall function. the smoothness of the UI and the operation of the plugin. the flexibility in settings (e.g. TMT non-linear modeling, oversampling, internal clipping, resizing, no pops and audio spikes when disabling) are all conveniences that are to be appreciated. the power consumption getting too high and you still want some API color, change the oversampling. too big for your laptop screen, change the UI size.
let's not forget that AA is sampling an actual console while PA is modeling from 500 series units. this consideration alone will speak to SOME of the sonic differences between the two plugins, so this isn't really an "apples to apples" comparison totally (but still valuable from my nerd perspective). but anyway...
I personally think AA has some of the best sounding plugins in the game. and considering the loyalty pricing discounts (my discount is 35% so again, bit of an addict), the price to quality of sound ratio is off the charts! but until they add in some of these more modern functionality improvements and find a way to minimize some of the CPU tax folks will always be looking for alternatives. and that's why UAD and PA and AA all have a place in MY workflow. and to mirror a comment already stated here, most clients and almost all fans don't give a hoot about the frequency response of the plugins. they want great sounding music. if you can't do that with either AA or PA or UAD or _____, it's less the plugin's issue and more the issue with the practitioner.
my pennies on the subject. thanks for reading.
Thanks for your input 🤓
IF you like the sound of the Lindell at lower oversampling options then it's a straight no brainer!
I freeze and use track folders in PT so I adjusted my workflow a while ago to accommodate. I run an i5 laptop so I was going to need to freeze at some point regardless of who I use haha 😅
The only thing left for me to do is try pink out vs what I use already and see if it's worth a purchase 🤓
@@PaulThird I generally have been running the Lindell (50 and 80) at 8x OS w/ the hard clipping running, and just use it and my AA stuff according to mix element priority (e.g. vocal, drums, etc.). I'm in a similar situation with my 2018 Mac Mini. it's a 6 core i7, but even it can get overwhelmed if I'm reckless, which makes the M1 Macs look all the more appealing once things stabilize.
(NOTE: I did run it through PluginDoctor and found that the 50 Series Buss plugin isn't responding to the TMT like the 80 Buss plugin does...hope they fix that soon).
at the end of it all, I'm beyond glad to have all of these colors and tools in the digital environment at my disposal. this one has def been getting it fair use in my sessions. but yea, thanks for the efforts again, good sir!
Great video Paul thank you for your great work on this! Strangely I preferred Acustica on all the soloed channels, but on the mix Lindell totally won for me. On the full mix Lindel sounded richer, smoother, juicier whereas the Acustica sounded colder and thinner. I can't understand why that would be but there you are, big surprise for me I was expecting Acustica to win for sure on the mix. Thanks again!!
That's why i take the time to match them all so what your hearing are the genuine differences 🤓 funnily enough if I was to go for any api it would be the UAD as its the closest to the API 5500 hardware. I actually prefer it in most blind tests
The Lindell sounded fuller with more low end but flatter. Acustica was thinner but 3D. I would definitely use Acustica to be 3D and just adjust the settings to get a fuller low end but keep the depth that Acustica gives.
Fascinating. I listened to all of your commentary and conclusions before listening to the blind test. I was shocked, therefore, when you revealed which plugin was which because to me, in a good pair of headphones, the Lindell sounded better. The Lindell sounded a bit more holographic and full, with more character, whereas the Pink sounded a bit thinner and more clinical.
The differences are so subtle that closing one's eyes during the A/B test it's extremely difficult and sometimes perhaps impossible to tell when you make the switch. So, I imagine either plugin would work beautifully. (Which is good news for me because I'm already a Plugin Alliance Mega Bundle user.)
Thanks so much for taking the time to do this test (twice!). It's amazing to me that people with your skill and knowledge set take the time do do these shootouts-such a great service to the rest of us.
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Beautifully well done. The fairest comparison I’ve ever seen. The Pink has great depth and the transients do come out more. I picked the Pink every time. Please keep doing these.
Yeah I think this format will work well for side by side emulation shootouts 🤓
Your videos and knowledge are a blessing to the community Paul. Thank you.
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Like others have already said, consider it flattering that Dirk bothered to pull you up on your previous shoot-out as he probably wouldn't have bothered if he didn't think people were listening to you.. which they are, so keep up the good work! I found this particular shoot-out incredibly close even on some decent Kali Monitors and the final mix was very close! I've spent time matching plugins using the scopes on Plugin Doctor to ascertain what certain something else a vintage, tube or retro emulation is bringing to the party.. but it's very tough to accurately match the curves and a few dB's out on a high/low pass, scoop or bell makes a noticeable difference. Despite my normally short attention span, I'm subscribed and loving the content!
Thanks so much 🤓 appreciate it 🙌
I think this shootout format is probably the way to go moving forward.. It takes me half the time 😅
Cool test. I didn't choose one consistently over the other but in general agreed with your opinions. I like your positivity, attitude, and style! Can't wait to see more!
Thanks Cale.. Appreciate it 🤓👊
😂😂 You’re going to make these companies work hard for us...the era of beautiful GUI tied to shitty sound is over!!!!
With acustica you get *both* a beautiful GUI *and* great sound! 😊
Very interesting comparisons, Paul! Thanks for all the effort, my friend
Thanks for commenting 🤓
I just watched this on my phone and I could tell the difference even from its speakers, I was able to predict which was the AA program before you showed the names. And it's very very evident on the electric guitars, the sound really opens up and jumps out of the speaker. Can't imagine what happens when listening thru proper studio monitors (I'll do it tonight)
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I compared my acustica plugins with all companies and the winner was acustica with no doubt! Even better than UAD plugins which people think they are the best but AA is really the best plugins and im really done with testing plugins! I just need upgrade my computer!
I'm still gutted that I can't afford a UA interface to include UAD in my shootouts. Been offered a free satellite but it's thunderbolt 😭😭😭
Yeah, Same for me; I‘ve spent thousands (!) of Euros for UAD til I discovered AA. ONCE you’ve listened to El Rey you are sold ;)
@@photicsonar wish I could sell back 10 UAD plugins after I got El Rey.
Again, I picked Pink on each one. You’re right about the guitars - ironically I thought I heard slightly more of a low EQ bump on the lindell on the guitars but the drums sounded fuller across the board with the pink. Also there was more sparkle to me with the pink on the guitars. That was just instinctive too, in real time in one pass through the video. So whatever. I also bought camel; gold, coffee and sand during the sale. There’s a three dimensionality I can’t describe but I know isn’t there when I a/b with other plugins. The acustica plugins just really, to me, are a different level altogether.
That's one of the reasons i personally moved. I'm a big fan of depth, clarity and transients. That's why I use acustica a lot
New sub here 🙋🏻♂️ Love the channel. Both sound great. I heard the difference every time but like things about each, honestly.
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both sound great, but I’ll chuck in a vote for the Lindell generally being my preferred of the two in these tests, that extra low end weight suits my ear better. That said, the full mix arguably benefits from the additional brightness/slight low mid scoop sound of the Acustica, but then a bit of further EQ could likely address that for the Lindell. So yeah, if anyone needs me i’ll be over there sat on the fence.
probably also worth considering from a workflow perspective that there’s no dry/wet mix on the Lindell 50 VCA compressor, absolutely infuriating. Super cheap to buy at the moment though so there is that 🤷🏻♂️
correction edit: it was $29.99 at the weekend, it’s back off sale again for the moment
Excellent demonstration - and fair play on making the effort to revisit the comparison Paul.
But my OCD is going bananas at your "Mixing Wednesday" title on this Sunday 😅
Hahaha I had to stick it up ASAP as my autism was in proper overdrive. Pacing back and forth for days and winding myself up silly after that first shootout. I know I can walk away from it now and breathe 😂
@@PaulThird Haha - no worries, it's perfectly understood. And in some ways, Dirk's comments have helped to create this solid video which shows people like me how to do a proper fair test :)
I now recommend enjoying the rest of Sunday by getting yourself some of the excellent (and great value) VNXT reverbs for Nebula :D
Yes.. Its time to chill out 😎.. Hold on I have 2 young girls.. I take that back!!.. I need to find something else to do!! 🤣
@@PaulThird ok dr. shawn from st benedict hospital
Great test; this is the way. Would love to hear these finally compared to the hardware. Perhaps someone with the actual HW would contribute wav files recorded at the same spec...?
I agree that the transient attack is sharper and depth clearer on the AA, while the Lindell is rounder and flatter, but truthfully only slightly. Ultimately, I think they're very close; surprisingly so. I hear the difference, but it wasn't always immediate and shocking, it was subtle. Cheers, thanks.
Would be great to compare against hardware 🤓
Very good channel. Great comparison and analysis. I subscribed.
Thanks Nikolaus 🤓
Thanks for the deep review !! Very amazing work there !
This Juan 🤓🤓
I confess to be relieved after watching this shootout. Thanks a ton for the hard work on this one, Paul.
I own Lindell 50 and recently used it across a whole album I mixed. The arrangements were inspired by 70s acoustic folk and indie rock, so I was looking for that authentic sound.
Unfortunately, after going over the first passes of the 14 tracks, I found a lot of nasty resonances and overall brittleness. Had to undo it all and start anew with PA's SSL 9000J. Reached a better result, but got frustrated as I love the Lindell 80.
Watching here AA Pink4 at work side-by-side was insightful. I am still getting into the AA plugins, but I have my eyes on this one for future acoustic material.
Please keep up your amazing channel. I've been binge-watching all your videos and joined one of your subscription tiers.
Glad to have you on board the audio geek train 🤘
Don't be shy I'm on Facebook, Instagram and that 🤓
Guilherme - where I can I hear your stuff? I'm heavy on the old school acoustic side
@@martinrubymusic Only saw your reply now. Sorry for that. The album is going to mastering in a couple of days. As soon as the artist release it, I will let you know.
@@PaulThird I am awful with socials. But I will improve and show up more here at RUclips.
Oversampling by 16x can really take away transients. I tested the Lindell 50 on a very percussive song, I did one bounce at 2x oversampling and another at 16x. I preferred the 2x oversampling because it preserved the transients as they were originally recorded much more accurately.
You're a trooper Paul! Cheers for your hard work.
Thanks Gareth. Appreciate it 🤓🤓
Hi Paul, thx 4 your tests! I've a question: Your video is from 17.01.2021. The Plugin PA LINDELL 50 was updated on the 18.01.2021 with the remarks: "Version 1.0.1 (Jan 18, 2021)
-fixed TMT in line amp and transformer (Channel + Buss)". B/C I'm not so on to the technicals things: Did these fixes correlate to the things you remarked in your tests and did they fix it with these changes? TY!
Nah it was a bug fix. TMT is the tolerance modelling. Can't remember exactly what it was, but it was just a routine bug fix. Could have been some channels not changing the frequency response or bugging out or whatever
@@PaulThird Hm. I was thinking of buying the PA Lindell 50 and now I'm a bit unsure if I should...
I'm still loving my Pink!
Thanks for doing this "scientific" test! Lots of work! I'd prefer the Pink on drums and guitars and the mix (super 3D and transients), but I liked the Lindell on (the solo'ed) bass. I'm a happy owner of both plugins :D
Thanks man 🤓
The Lindell sounds richer to me. The pink is too bright and feels thin. The lindell sounds smooth and big body like a silky pultec or something
Yep, exactly what I thought, which really surprised me, I was expecting Acustica to win.
I agree. I prefer Acustica hands down. For me, It has better transients, clarity and pops a lot more. Thank you for the hard work you put into this. This is all subjective and shouldn't be treated like politics. If someone prefers the Lindell, i respect that. To each their own.
Fantastic response! Thanks for sharing 🤓
There are 2 different major EQ versions of the 550A one with proportional Q and others without it. Paul Wolf gave a really good interview about it. Not sure if that helps but there have been about 4 different versions of the 550A over the years mostly the Q is different so it can vary wildly so this may be why they are different since they may have been modeled from 550A's from different eras of manufacturing.
I would love to see the opposite of this shootout:
Mix by ear with Pink, then by ear with the Lindell, with no effort whatsoever to match settings between the plugins. It’d not be good for much other than it’d be fun to see what happens!
The first pink vs lindell video is basically that haha I had to end up mixing Lindell to sound like pink cause it sounded really muddy in comparison but that was due to the proportional Q being off in the pink which gave you narrower q's at lower gain which I actually prefer
Really nice job on this Paul! I just took a look at these two plugins in my Plugin Doctor. Wow the curves are very different. Perhaps you should do a stripped down video just showing their curves and harmonics in Plugin Doctor. That would be pure scientific data and not subject to anyone's opinion.
The A is always gonna be different as its based from 550A console eq where the 50A&B in lindell are the rackmount 500 series.
The rackmount lunchbox api 550a and B are essentially the same eq as its got the same circuitry and the B is the 550A but it has an extra band and a few extra frequencies.
The console 550A is different in its pre linear frequency response and the eq slightly differs in highs and lows of its filters. So if you use B pre in the pink with eq A then it's the closest you can get to the lunchbox 550A but obviously the Lindell is more bang on.
That's what I love about convolution sampling though as you can create your own frankenstein console / eq with different pre's and eq's etc. That's the biggest benefit to AA is the choice it gives you
@@PaulThird I agree 100% but not everyone has Plugin Doctor. I think it would be beneficial to share that data with your community :)
Yeah I'm gonna have a rethink and see if I can structure my videos and have a set way I do them so I cover everything. I always notice the vids with plugin doctor seem to get more engagement 🤓
would be interesting do this test vs a real API channel strip . acustica sounds always good but often they have a typical 'acustica' sound that is a little different from the hw they emulate. i dont say it is bad, but should be interesting to listen how they are close to original hw.
I'm doing an API 5500 shootout soon as Acustica emulate the 5500 in eq C and tone empire does the 5500 also. Be shooting them out against access analogs hardware 5500
Great job Paul! Personally I don't think this 2nd test was even necessary, the old one might have not been as scientific but the result was pretty much the same, I heard the same differences. The Lindell doen't have more low end, is just less transient I think, therefore sounds darker overall. I thought with the guitars you really hear that depth difference, cause the spectrum is so busy you don't really focus so much on the frequency response differences and you only hear the attacks and just generally how the attacks develop. Acustica sounds like hardware to me.
Thats how I normally think as well. Every hardware test I've done it's always about getting the transients and harmonics right most of the time
I'm testing both, the trial of Pink4 and Lindell 50. The Pink4 sounds pretty, prettay, prettaayy good and the Lindell 50 Series sounds not bad. There are differences, but both have in common that they make the sound much better. One huge advantage of the Lindell 50: it is remarkably low on CPU, while all the Acustica Plugins are quite a different beast here in a not so good way. So if you want to transform your DAW into a Channel Strip, like me, with a lot of instancs of Acustica you'll need a NASA Computer soon and Brainworx is a good compromise between soundquality and CPU hit.
I’m curious what did dirk say? I can’t find the post haha. I personally like the PA more so was just curious.
"your test setup is wrong, sorry but no.. "
That was all I got haha No details on why it was wrong, just a vague blanket statement which could have been taken any way from a watcher and then start a shitstorm.
I got comments from people telling me about the proportional q's and somebody went into detail into how they felt it wasn't a fair scientific shootout etc.
It might seem like a tiny wee comment but from the CEO of plugin alliance it could have started a lot of shit as I was ready to go in full argument mode as I was so pissed haha I had to delete my reply and his comment cause I could see it ending badly. As soon as I start arguing with Dirk or disagreeing I leave the door open for hate from his users which I can't be bothered with.
So I decided to address it in a video where I know I can walk away knowing the variables are out my hands and I've given dirk a fair video on response to his claim.
That's autism for you mate.. I don't do stuff by halves 🤣🤣
@@PaulThird crazy stuff man. Well personally I do prefer the PA - I used to have pink but actually sold it. Idk why but it didn’t do it for me. That said I’m mixing hip hop beats so maybe that extra pokiness is just better on my source material.
I think what this showed me compared to my original comparison is how good and important the THD and drive of the Lindell is. Really brings a lot to these plugs. I always have my Lindell 80 channel set a certain way with the PRE driven like 3db and set the THD to taste. Part of why I love it soo much. The grit of the 80 channel is why I can't see past it for a neve sound
@@PaulThird If that's all he said, that rubs me the wrong way too. What kind of comment is that? Not constructive at all. Your response is commendable.
More plugin companies need to start developing their own unique plugins. Same old copies over and over, here is our digital recreation of some analogue gear. It is 2021, digital should be capable of surpassing analogue at this point by leaps and bounds.
I think convolution sampling is getting there but there are still cpu issues and the technology is still developing.
I think some algo developers are starting to think out the box and deliver some really cool plugs ie wavesfactory trackspacer is such a clever intuitive little plugin, Gulfoss, soothe etc. I think the algo plugs are going to move more down the intelligent 'AI' route ie smart reverb, smart comp etc etc
And this is where Izotope and Fabfilter come in
Don't.. I still go in the huff that I don't have fab filter and rx8 haha.. Not fair 🤣
@@PaulThird in my opinion Fabfilter is very good, but it doesn't get quite as nice a sound as Acustica
I defintely prefer the non linearities of AA green when subtracting in terms of sound quality but I do like all the features that fabfilter offers. Unbelievably surgical
I dont have any of the two so im listening to both of them for first time here.
Right away i could here one having more depth than the other and once i could focus on that depth i could guess accuretly every single time, and that through an Avantone mono cube. Yes pink wins but i wish it was the other way around
Yep!! Acustica won this battle 'overall'!! I can hear what you describe.
Good comparison test!
I have a LOT of Plugin Alliance and Acustica plugins. And because they are simply different, I use them 'differently'.
And definitely, there is no right/wrong... for those who are creating or enhancing art (which music/audio typically are). To me, the keys are to add some fun/pleasure to your life with all of this stuff, produce art and communicate through it (if that is your goal). Bottom line for me, is that each plugin is a different tool, to help achieve the same.
I mix/match all of these plugins (from different companies). And often, the serendipity is VERY rewarding!! But there is no doubt, that Acustica has achieved something very unique and useful with their technology. :)
Totally agree 🤓 I use PA ssl 9000J for drum samples in conjuction with AA plugs on the live drums. The 9000j gives me a sound I can't get anywhere else. Same with Lindell 80. That's why I use it on kick snare bus. Everybody just assumes I use only acustica now when I actually combine a lot of the time.
I never see brands, I hear sounds 🤘
This channel should be wwwwwwwwwwwway bigger than it is.. I hope you don't let the slow subs slow ya down, if you build it.. They WILL come. There are ppppppplenty of audio nerds like myself in the world.
Thanks sonny 🤓 1.75k subs in under a year so far so I'm hoping 10k by the end of this year. The youtube algorithm holds you back and opens you up to more people the more you grow so fingers crossed 🤞 haha
@@PaulThird BTW - I've bene mixing/mastering for 30 years now (mainly hiphop/r&b) and your ear for small details is great! I absolutely love the technology that's happening in this space right now. I got a video suggestion because I can't find one - how exactly is Acustica "sampling" the hardware? I understand how IRs work with rooms but no clue how it works with outboard gear. A more in depth explanation would be helpful. Thanks!! :)
Hi Paul, where do you recommend to put bus channel, first in chain or last? Thanks
Try both. A/B and see which you like best
@@PaulThird Thanks, what is your preference?
I would personally use them at the start of the chain
Really appreciated Paul. I am using laptop speakers and can hear the superior quality of Pink.
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Do you think that whatever TMT is doing to the phase is what is messing with the transients? I think I will compare them on a full mix as thats kind of the selling point from the PA Lindell consoles in my opinion.
Airwindows' consoles do their "3D" with encoding / decoding rather than single channel phase variations. So my guess is AA wins on their individual tone but you will have to combine with other "3D analog" processing to match the Lindell phase tricks. Idk.
Dunno, could be. You can do the same with AA and just use different line pre's of the console
Great video Paul.
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During the solo instrument tests, Acustica consistently sounded more "clicky" and the Lindel softer. So, the relevant question is which is appropriate for which track? I prefer the mellower Lindel attack on toms and especially bass. I prefer the Pink's enhanced transient on kick, snare, and guitar.
To me the Pink sounds a bit hyped and the Lindell has more weight. Edit: full mix on Pink sounds a bit screamy to me, probably due to the hyped character. I prefer Lindell.
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My man don't work yourself up so much :) At the end of the day it will come down to personal preference anyway. I am often satisfied with your method of testing.
I'm usually very conservative with my high end, that's probably why I liked Lindell on bass in solo, but the tradeoff in transients and the smoother top was always noticeable. In solo I may pick the Lindell at times, but in the mix I have no doubts which one I prefer.
Also, even if I don't always agree with you, I can't deny that you officially turned me into an AA fan over the last few months :)
It's my autism man..it can be a curse sometimes haha I become so focused it consumes me and I can't leave it alone. I'm happy now though.. I walk away from this now 😂
@@PaulThird To be fair, if I was in your shoes on this instance, I'd have been very tense as well haha. I have big respect for Dirk and PA. But as long as you can work yourself through it, it's all good :)
Yeah.. I think I mended whatever bridge was broken.. Kinda haha 😂
It’s kinda crazy. I chose the Lindell every time. Preferred the darker tones and extra low end. Pink just made everything too bright and lite for my liking.
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Dear Lord Paul III., where did u apply the oversampling to? did u use ddmf 4 this? thx! 😘
Top right of Lindell. Three lines. You'll find the plugin menu. That's where you can find oversampling, clipping, continuous or stepped gain etc etc 🤓
@@PaulThird thx LP3.! Is that fuction in other PA plugs, 2? I have the mega bundle but I seem 2 b blind! 😅
Mate.. I just found out about oversampling this week in Lindell 😭😭 I've been using Lindell 80 for years and now know that it can sound even better.. Crazy 🤓🤓
Not entirely sure if it's in the rest. I'd like to say the brainworx stuff has overaampling but I'd need to double check
@@PaulThird probably we both should sue our opticians!!! 🤣🤪
@@100states6 I just need to start reading manuals before I use a plug haha I get too excited and just dive in head first.. But for the purpose of this situation.. I'm defo blaming the optician 🤣🤣
Out of curiosity, in your videos did you test the Lindell with oversampling on?
Yes
Moooovvve!!
I own both and think the 50series has a sharper clearer more focused sound but sounds narrow compared to Pink which sounds more airy and wide and overall bigger.
I need to do my own shootout vs slates api as well. I always forget i have that as well haha
@@PaulThird For some reason I never went for Slate stuff like pres except for drums and the console plugin from way back.
@@PaulThird what about the Softube API channel?
Softube managed to bypass plugin doctor somehow and are really overpriced imo so I tend not to look at them. I have tried contacting them as have others but they never respond
I’m also going Pink. Does anybody know what sampling rate Paul is using?
96khz 🤓
Guess you have to hype your videos by plastering “snake oil” across the thumbnail to get a free pass from the manufacturers. Don’t let the bastards grind you down, Paul!
I was kind of thinking that but i think he's probably had his fair share of comebacks haha probs not so much now he's over 100k subs 😱
Hey!!! Paul!! can you tell me Hammerstein thing in ddmf plugin doctor.
What it is or what the Hammerstein is showing?
Question I've always wanted an answer to: Does the Console Shaper in Studio One replace the need for Lindell 80 or summing plugs? I have both and would rather use console shaper as it doesn't need 16x oversampling. thanks!
They're still talking about you on a thread that has over 28,000 views... I'd chime in there. You might get a huge boost from it.
I had a quick peak yesterday but I'm just a bit tentative as I don't want to open the door to abuse haha gearslutz can be pretty brutal 😅
@@PaulThird HA! yeah they are, but people are stickin up for you including me! I'm StarfishMusic. i posted up your second video, You're probably going to get alot of views from there! I appreciate what you do, your enthusiasm, and your stick to your guns attitude! lol
I been on there 10+ years and have the ten year badge, been engineering for a living over 25 years. Don't think I get any more respect! lol Still that's where everybody goes, and they are who watch your channel, like it or not! lol
Btw I love plugins, but I have to say I've been doing an analog mix with nice gear all night, and its easy to forget when you dont use it every day just how good it sounds. It's time consuming and less flexible so I don't use it all the time but even my cheapest gear destroys every plugin I've ever heard. It's funny to see people arguing about which bread crumb is bigger lol. If you don't have any hardware gear, buy one Art Pro VLAII compressor for $299, and you will have to laugh at how easy good sound actually is.
My patreon is building a little bit so will be buying a DBX 160a first and then buy sell buy sell. So I'm excited to see how the hardware stands up in those shootouts 🤓
BTW I posted on that thread so we'll see how I get on haha
@@PaulThird Problem with a DBX 160A for your a first hardware compressor is no attack and release controls. It is a hip hop staple though that makes a nice thick sound. Without attack and release you're stuck with what it has though. trust me Art Pro VlaII is what you want from a cheap compressor.
if you want something better there's the warm audio or new klark teknik stuff but an 1176 or an LA2a as you know are not work on everything compressors. Best do everything compressor without selling your car for it is elysisa expressor. Still $1000 though. I won't know a 160 but you'll get tired of the no attack or release quickly.
Just saw your first GS post lol good for you. Try not to cry...
Hahaha it might be my first and last 🤣🤣
I won't own analog gear as of yet. Its all purely for shootouts but when it's all said and done at the end of the day and I've done as much as the money raised can afford I may consider one or two but depends on how I get on with that journey haha
Love Acustica Audio.
Just can’t wait till they can polish them up for Mac systems.
Great products, great looks, great sound... random crazyass CPU spikes. Lots of track freezin.
I also love most all PA products.
Especially the Lindell 80 channel
Yup.. I freeze everything haha
I use Lindell 80 on my kick snare bus still and was a constant feature in my mixes till I found acustica. I don't what Tobias Lindell did with the 80 channel but whatever he did he got it spot on for the way I mix 👌
Can you please tell me in short please. What do you recommend for lindell 50 settings to match the hardware? All plugins set to hard clipping and what to do with oversampling and noise settings? Thanks
Switch vgain off, hard clipping and x16 OS, and ensure you are gain staging to the meters and not the daw
@Paul Third Thank you very much for answering. Can you just explain how you mean gain staging to the meters?
Gain stage to the meters on the plugin. It's vu so 0 in the plugin will be -18, -12dbfs in the daw dependent on how the plugin is calibrated.
To get more of a hardware sound treat it as if you are using the hardware which means staying within its parameters which i think is +3vu max
@@PaulThird Thanks maestro😉
The Lindell Sounds like real analog making the instruments sound real especially if you pushed in and dial back the out
I compared it to a real 500A and didn't get the api hardware sound but each to their own
another great vid
Thanks man 🤓🙌
I have to agree and I really was looking forward to the Lindell but imho the Lindell is quite anaemic and it pains me to say so. You win some, you loose some and the 50 is not quite happening. It looks pretty though.
I just still can't get over the difference in x8 to x16 oversampling. X16 is a killer on CPU though. Freezing all over the shop on that one haha
Wish Pink had the bottom weight of the Lindell. Otherwise I prefer Pink on everything, except the kick and bass examples actually. For the kick and bass example I prefer Lindell. Pink 4 just losses too much of the low end and I don't like it ...and the added weight of the Lindell full mix is something I might prefer even if the mids are more open on the Pink version. This of course has to do with the way the track is mixed. A low end boost on the Pink examples will sort everything out.
Either is good enough and Lindell at x8 sucks the same CPU as Pink 4. Also...from my understanding Pink 4 has no oversampling, yet its the more open sounding one and least flat sounding. I always associated more open sound, with oversampling. I wonder why that is?
AA use internal oversampling. Many modern devs do. AA can't be further internally oversampled with metaplugin due to the sample frequency packs.
Out of all the api plugs I actually prefer the UAD api vision strip. I actually prefer it to api 5500 hardware a lot of the time
Oversampled plugs have less aliasing which means that they sound more open and clear as they don't have harmonics unrelated to the fundamental being added in to the source
@@PaulThird Thanks for the info. After googling Pink 4 oversampling I came to a few threads that said there is no oversampling in Pink. Didn't check the date of the threads though, might have been old and for previous Pink versions. Do you happen to know if its x2, x4 or higher?
Can't say for sure tbh. If it's not oversampling then their aliasing filters are top grade but makes sense that it's oversampling. Especially as we can't oversample them
What is your take on the echo bug and it is present in Pink 4?
I thought that the echo bug was a thing of the past with AA plugs. Im sure I seen a post that said the echo bugs were all fixed 🤷♂️
I preferred your Lindell mix in both videos, I could hear some “quality” added in the pink mix but, stuff were just packed better together in the lindell one. Some levels were simply differents from one mix to the other.
I think we need a 3rd video with more attention to scientifically matching these mix ! Something wrong imo !!!
Kidding. Haha !
You did amazing job and thanks you !!
Thank God you said kidding!!! Hahaha.. I would've walked at that point 🤣🤣
You are right: Pink is more crisp. I have it too. And I am very exited about Sienna. It is a game changer for mixing on headphones. But you need to invest some work in it.
yeah i plan on going back to sienna due to all of the volumes they have released but i dunno. I dont like trusting 1 persons ear for calibrations. I sway more on the scientific side i.e. sonarworks. The CEO came out and admitted that its normally him that makes the headphone calibrations. I think they do rough measurements but he finishes them. They dont correct above 10k either. Sienna is a really tough one for me haha
@@PaulThird I tested and tweaked it some hours and adjusted it to my monitors. Most important is that you uncover wrong decisions you did on your monitors. That's what it does for me. It's much more helpful than the waves plugins.
I wouldn't touch waves nx stuff with a bargepole. Sounds super wierd
Dirk is causing problems again? That man is a Sunday evening tornado.
miss this intro song
That's a tasty AOR riff
Im not able 2 determine which one is lindell on the entire mix on my iphone speakers. its probably the speaker protection algoritm of the OS which destroys the shapes. Im 2 lazy 2 switch on the studio due to sundays. 😂
I prefer lindell in all tests)
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I like pink most too.
What did you like most about the pink in comparison? 🤓
The punch and clarity.
That's what I preferred as well 🤓
To be honest, I listened to both and it really feels like splitting hairs. I'm not hearing this huge substantial difference from either one. That's just me!
And that's totally cool 🤓 when you go to x16 in Lindell and compare it to pink an average listener won't tell the difference. In this video where I had Lindell at X8 oversampling I can hear the differences, but it's all subjective and maybe more evident to me as I set it up and spent hours listening to it 🤓
Paul, you right!
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Pink still wins. Good job
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Acustica sounds better, but the CPU efficiency of woke develops Dirk of P.A wins by a lot.. and that is very important
Tbh that's why i upgraded the computer haha I'm always sound over cpu. In the i5 I would just freeze and then commit when I could. Actually being honest if it's api I don't use either, I use the UAD vision strip 😂
@@PaulThird THAT IS THE BIG PROB WITH ACUSTICA, THE DIFFERENCES ARE NOT BIG, BUT THE CPU EFFICIENCY IT IS
wow surprised to say i think the lindell smoked the acoustica.
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Softtube just released a new Weiss eq ,if you demo it I was wondering what you think of it compared to fabfiter q3 I was thinking of using it to cut highs on vocals bus
I've already got a subtractive eq shootout. Non linearities of acustica green win every time for me in terms of sound quality but just stick with Fabfilter in my opinion. I don't own it but when I played about with it for that shootout I can tell you that i know enough to say that it's an absolute workhorse in terms of what it can do. When it comes to linear eq's you'll find that it's mostly in the oversampling and the quality of the coding. Fabfilter is ridiculously good. Plus softube is a rip off price wise. £150 discounted intro price compared to what you can do in fabfilter.. just stick with it. Honestly there won't be enough of a difference sound wise to make a staggering difference. Might sound brutal without demoing it but a 7 band digital eq is just a 7 band digital eq to me. You can do all the 1:1 coding of the weiss but it's still a 7 band digital eq at the end of the day. Fabfilter is the staple with almost unlimited bands, eq match bla bla.. Im gutted I don't own the fab filter haha
Wow sadly I took the bait and brought it for $108 thinking the sale was gonna go go out ,and thanks you I figure that all of the 1 to 1 talk was just bull ,smh Acustica plugins works on my iMac good but on my MacBook i keep getting low cpu error but I do have a lot of other things taking up a lot of space on my laptop
I’m going to go get a refund ,one last question what are your thoughts on (Weiss DS1 MK3 - Compression, Limiting, Stereo Imaging). Looking at sage audio they use it on there master chain ,do you recommend any plugin they can do what it does ?
As a transparent compressor the DS1 is a great compressor but somebody advised me about the TDR Kotelnikov GE and I was blown away so bought that instead
I really hope I'll be able to pick up Fabfilter one day, even if it's second hand. I really need to try the slate version though as it comes with my sub. Why Ive never tried it is beyond me
the channel and bus of the Lindell has a bump at 20hz that may be why you are hearing that enhanced sub tone.
Would that not dissappear though after you filter?
@@PaulThird should do
@@PaulThird i think the lindell is a very buggy plugin and might be something wrong with the 20hz bump.
That's when I start slowly walking away as I have not the slightest idea of coding and how plugins are made haha
TMT seems like BS. Tolerances between channels should not be so drastic. In an analog board, that would mean something is wrong with the channel. It looks like just random changes to the frequency spectrum. Slate Digital’s Virtual Collection (VCC) doesn’t model tolerances because they felt there shouldn’t be a difference, and when they measured tolerances, it was so insignificant, so they didn’t model it. TMT also kinda worries me because we don’t know what channel is the real deal/what was actually modeled from the console. I’d assume channel one, but I don’t know.
Yeah I came to the same conclusion a very long time ago
Acustica Audio best emulation in the world forever. Plugin Alliance sounds good but sounds like plastic, AA sounds like real hardware and I can talk about that bc I used the real hardwares and I compare hardware vs plugin and AA is very similar the compare of the frequency.
Interesting. What have you tested thus far? 🤓
@@PaulThird Hi buddy, I have had before in my studio tubetech, api 550-560, neve 1073-1081, Neve V3 Channelstrip, Joemeek, SSL 611 EQ, Chameleon Labs, Manley Passive and many more but when I came to the world of Acustica Audio in 2019 and I tried them and made sound comparisons both in eq's and compressors I decided to sell all my equipment and only kept a compressor and eq to use when I make a mastering but the realism of AA being sample-based plugins sound almost exact to the hardware, It's something from dirk and UA people can't get over it unless they start doing the same process, the only complaint I can give about AA plugins is the high CPU consumption but luckily I have an excellent mac computer and I can use several at the same time, I think that's why many colleagues end up using PA or UA as plugins but if they have not had the experience of using real hardware they will not be able to compare the sound and quality between a plugin to a hardware. That is where these people make money with the new generation. Good video keep doing that. Cheers
Acustica Audio is Better to my ears
trust your ears for me its lindell audio 50
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Pink, to my ears, makes the Lindell seem flat i.e. lack depth. Pink also seems to have more punch & tightness - algo compressors (& EQ's) not there yet (in my opinion)
The insane button is a must in the pink. Takes more cpu but makes the compression faster which results in a tighter punch 🤓
@@PaulThird I wrote my comment after your first audio example - in others words, I could have watched your whole comparison & then just simply said 'I agree with your conclusion' - I can also say that it was a night & day difference for me too
I don't know why there is such a difference. It may be the aliasing, difference in coding, there's a multitude of factors beyond my control. I don't make plugins so when developers try and tell me more about the intricacies of coding and stuff it all goes right over my head 😅😅
@@PaulThird Impossible for us non-developers to know I think - as buyers we make the decisions with our ears - but increasingly with our eyes too (not sure that's a good thing!!)
Mate.. Thats why I miss about gigging back in the day. Walk in a practice room or stage. 3 or 4 amps. Plug in.. Nope.. Nope.. Yup. Quick dial in and off we go. Was all ears. Made your decision in 5 minutes.
I used to sit with my amp & pedals and spend hours tweaking for a beano tone. No curves, no visual element. Listening to records and then tweaking like crazy till I had the sound I wanted.
That was the joys of being a teenager living with your parents though 😂
Acustica!!
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PA sucks. Business platform is terrible and customer support is fucking awful. AA is much better plugins.
Let me spoil the fun. Both are not even close emulating API, you just want to believe it. All those plugin companies are selling you convenience, not sound, and you buy into it because, who can afford a 24+ch API desk with loads of extra 500 modules?
Every person who cranked the input gain on a proper desk absolutely laughs at these emulations...
That's fine but it's not a hardware shootout. I'm just showing the differences between both plugins.
I can't speak sound wise as I don't have the hardware BUT from an alternative viewpoint, what the plugins do as tools is give you more than the hardware can.
For example in the Acustica you can have a 550 A, B, 560, 5500 and even a CAPI eq. You can use one for low end, another for mids, another for high end and mix and match. You mix different pre's with the eqs, switch the harmonics off, change the q's from proportional to constant, change the clipping behaviour of the modelled op amp..
You can create your frankenstein API at the touch of a few buttons. So I don't kid myself that I can afford a 24+ch API desk.. But I also don't really care as I've got enough tools at my disposal to probably create something different which can suit the medium better. Hardware is limiting. Plugins aren't. There can be a trade off in sound but depends on what your after at the end of the day.
@chris.. Analog access have a 5500 😉 it's on the cards 🤓
@@PaulThird You can undoubtedly make good sounding mixes in digital world, but guess why 99% of mixes sound the same nowadays? Same character, same sterile sound... hmmmmmm...
Hmmm.. But then why do have analog junkies like Brauer going basically fully in the box now. I'm still shocked at that one haha the man with all the gear you could possibly want basically deciding to ditch most of it and go mainly digital. That to me was a big sign that times are changing.. But that's only one engineer
@@PaulThird convenience...
I use Lindell50 frequently and I have to agree with your findings Paul and picked Pink accurately in each instance also... very disappointing.
If you still like Lindell then you can still use it though?
@@PaulThirdWell... I've always wanted the API sound and AA was always outside of my CPU's processing capabilities so I went the Lindell route but now that I've got a more powerful PC I'll absolutely be switching over to AA Pink ASAP because honestly even before this and your previous video I always found it to be one of their more "flat" one dimensional sounding emu.
That's why I'd never use the Lindell tbh