No matter my education or experience;I always consider myself a student, so I can always learn and not limit myself by personals goals I previously accomplished or ego. Great video brother. Thanks for the shout out. 🙏
Oh how I love it that FINALLY Archers working together to improove archery, instead of telling each other what they do wrong. This is the right thing to do. I wished I had people like this when I started 24 years ago. Imagine where I could be today... Imagine where you can be in 20 years if you start training all that stuff NOW! thanks 1000 times for your will to cooparate and for this video especially.
Is a cool technique like everything everyday practice and it depends on each one. Better not concentrate on the odd feather don't look when nock. the eyes on the target. and works. A lot of practice. It's always good to see you enjoy when you shoot. Cheers Armin 👍
I agree ☝️ 💯 percent. Just at first u need to concentrate on it. Very very much, Because when u first start. Arrows need to be in the hand the same exact way every single time. So if your ever in the dark or while just waking up early in the morning or in the middle of the night you can grab your arrows the same exact way every single time. But it takes time to get to that point. But it’s also something you can teach yourself while sitting there watching t.v, You won’t need to pay attention to it later on. But when u first start it’s best to be very very careful on how You learn. So it’s not a inch off here and there. Grabbing them wrongly could cause interruptions while shooting. And if there’s multiple targets to hit quickly you don’t need any interference.
Sooo glad the archery world is coming together on the varied styles of shooting. I am sick n tired of "Bow Snobs" that teach their way is the "proper" way! Keep us posted on your WFA findings. Thanks Armin!🏹🏹
If you mean to say that there is no proper way when it comes to speed archery.....you would be wrong.....speed archery is primarily a technique used by medeaval middle Eastern archers....it's possible that archers of the steppes practiced a type of speed archery but there's no record of it written or otherwise....however not only is there evidence there's written instructions in the case of middle Eastern archery and in those instructions are the do's and dont's of shooting and specific techniques and methodology. I'm starting to think that I'm the only one who did the reading ....because all I see is people just making shit up and developing some level of ability with that ....but regardless of how good it looks to the layman it still will look like crap to someone who knows the "right way" as macks stuff looks to me ...like crap
@@jareth7456 My comment should have stated "the one proper way" Too many of the Olympic styles archers that shoot round targets at known distances poo poo the 3 D archers. Macks way may work for him, but not me (not that I can speed shoot anyway). Lars Andersons method works for him, but some of his stuff looks staged or edited. Either way my point is Shoot! Shoot a bow, shoot a firearm of any style, and have fun doing so without dinging on the next guy! Have fun shoot straight!
I will do a video on drawing from the quiver right now I can do 1 arrow per 2 seconds and have achieved under 1 second per arrow with arrow placement in the quiver. Arrow placement in the quiver is absolutely important learned that from Mihai, and easy to do. Loading from the quiver is the next step. And I promise To release another video. And sir you did excellently well. Ur a true master archer.
Your comment makes me think of one of Armin's quiver reviews. Looked liked folds of material inside the quiver. Would probably hold war arrows in perfect orientation.
@@BLACKXARCHERY My comments might be getting flagged for the link. The video is "Korean Military Quiver by Yeochang Yun - Review" about 2 minutes in. The Japanese used a similar setup. I might knock something out with cardboard or old election signs to test things out.
What you described at the end kinda reminds me of Turkish speed shooting, where they'd hold arrows around the head of the arrow, between their knuckles. Great video as always.
Thanks Armin and Mack, I’ve been practicing nocking the arrows like this all week, after watching Mack’s videos. I’ve gotten the hang of quickly nocking one arrow, but when I try to hold 3 like that, I’m all thumbs and drop them. Definitely a steep learning curve! 🤣 thank you both 👍😊🏹
Well brother that's because this method takes far too much dexterity....a real actual historical methodology used in warfare for shooting very quickly would in fact use almost zero dexterity......if you think someone is going to pull off all this highly dexterous finger gymnastics in the midst of battle with their body flooded with adrenaline scared out of their mind and possibly either sick or wounded ......not likely.
You can hold 3 arrows in thumb and pointing figer verry close to each others and in one movment when string back gently drive next arrow by pointing finger into string and shot again and again. But you need thumbrung for stronger bows.
I love these videos! So calming, yet infromative and inspirational at the same time. Can't wait to get outside later today and try this technique. Thanks so much!
have you ever seen "archery boras" videos? he's using arrows with 4 feathers but spaced 120/60 degrees instead of even 90. you can shoot the arrow either way around and its the same. also you get the space between the feathers for your finger when shooting slavic. seems ideal for what you're trying to do.
I think the combination will do it. 3 preloaded arrows like bambambam and than you grap you bundle and go bam, bam, bam... If you think in a fight in the woods, after you hit the first 3 very fast, the rest will probably hide and you have more time. But who knows... I would really like to have more tutorials of different fastshooting stiles. 3 Arrows Mondays 😄
Dude I love that and I agree ☝️. And that was actually a very solid point. One thing I’d like to add to that is In my opinion, If u learn to grab from the quiver and grab the same exact way every time you won’t need to preload. Because u will already be grabbing them the same exact way every time.
There is another kind of ancient draw if you want to try, While pulling the drawing hand just put the thumb like a hand pistol gesture or a kind two fingers slavic draw. Its use in South east Asia, very stable to shoot anyway. In Thai vs Malay War they used in a boat, on an elephant or to shoot the person a elephant. I posted a link to a mural before but I suppose commenters can't send a link
Love IT! So much unknown, and so many various techniques. Will be a study within itself to find in a tried and true measure which techniques work for which situations. Inspiring to see so many into Archery Speed Shooting. Great Job Armin! Please keep them coming.
Well I would say that the very first thing a fast reloading method/blind nocking technique should be is simple nor should it require a bunch of highly dexterous finger gymnastics...no .....it should require nearly zero fine motor dexterity because if you think you gonna pull off your finger gymnastics in the midst of battle with your body flooded with adrenaline......I'd say you're not being realistic
I think too few people in the archery community put anytime into learning to shoot fast, for me its very important as historically it was seen as something you had to be able to do or you were just weren't very good. Shooting fast and on target is as much a skill as shooting precision slowly in my opinion they are just different.
Armin just feel your nocks and line them up. Don't worry about the odd feather. I learned not to worry about the odd feather from you. The most important thing to nocking fast is the nock position Mack being an American is worrying about the odd feather where he doesn't really need to. But if your nocks are lined up with the odd feather then it helps. But you have said in the past that the odd feather doesn't matter and I agree. So free yourself from the feathers and concentrate on feeling the alignment of the nocks. But this does make Macs achievement even better.
just spent the last few hours practicing and found that lining the cock feather with the forefinger and index just took my draw to a new level. I have left eye dominance and am right handed, but my left eye is long sighted and my right eye short, so notching arrows quickly is...problematic. However, using that two finger/cock feather method means i get the arrow notched, drawn and released in one fluid motion (thumb release). Thank you.
I have attempted the Commanche style fast shooting but I am not that accurate. I do use a thumb ring and hold my extra arrows and bow with my bow hand. The arrows on the bow hand are arranged that I can easily grab, nock, draw, release, and repeat with good grouping at 20 yards. Someday I would like to visit Armin for lessons in person.
Regulations is a verty interesting way to shape what speed contest may look like Reloading might flatten things between fast shooter slow reloading(like the technique you showed) and moderate fast shooting but simpler reload Thanks for sharing, will try that today:)
he did not made it reload from the other side (using bolts instead of arrows) it could be fast with slide in magazines but with a little practics you can get it right from quiver aswell.
Nope - i beat that Legolas in Speedshooting. And the Legolas used a 20 Pound Bow, while i use a 50 Lbs Bow. Even Lars is jealous on my Technique, he wrote me a mail a while ago... i never wrote back :D
Yes there are different kinds of markers for different kinds of archery. But for speed shooting I like your mention about 10 arrows in 30 seconds, and how do you handle getting the arrows out of the quiver. Seems like there is enough people who have mastered recreating different kinds of speed shooting just shooting a couple arrows. So feels like there is a good foundation there. But adding in the dynamic of pulling arrows from a quiver, that would be a really good marker. Great video
I figured out a fingerdraw technic years ago I m training with... I also thought about making RUclips videos... but then I always thought I dont become a great youtuber and nobody will look at my videos... so therefore I just silently experimenting and training for myself... however... my fingerdraw technic is similar to slavic release... the only thing is to add the thumb to the index finger so then you pinch the arrow with the Index finger on right side and the thumb on left side... this gives even better stability then slavic and you can even shoot nockless arrows with this style... of course you use 2 fingers under the arrow to draw the string same like in slavic too... and with this modified slavic release I am. also holding the arrows like mack and in this video... I also enjoy your videos and reviews a lot Armin! komm mal wieder nach Bayern und lass uns mal zusammen Speed Shooting machen :) Prost Armin!
Whenever I try this method (I learned it from Mack---from Martin Sporri's content except he uses two-fletched arrows), I practice doing it with the odd feather turned the other way to test my own limits when it comes to speed and "sleight of thumb" as I say, so that way it doesn't become somewhat of a crutch to have the odd feather poking out already, know what I mean? Working on how fast can get the nock alignment down without overthinking.
@@ArminHirmer yeah so the next time I get arrows (I've got my eye on bamboo since apparently it's more pliable, won't snap so easy---any feedback on bamboo arrows is appreciated) I'm grabbing a pack where all the feathers are the same like white or red
Thank you so much for sharing your first steps in another technique! 👍 It reminds me of myself trying to figure out blind nocking 😁 You’ll manage it quickly! Keep up the fun! 🏹🔆
maybe there is something like burst shooting like preload hand shooting and on the other side continous manner shooting like reloading from quiver only and a mixed manner
I think to evaluate speed shooting both accuracy and penetration needs to be counted. Say, on target would be a full score and slightly off would be half a score and so on. Same goes with penetration, with >5 inches being a full score and 3-5 inches being a half score and so on. Who can get the most score out of 30 seconds (regardless of # of arrows) would be the winner.
If you look at fire arm competitions. They divide things into differant classes, but all compete in the same firing range. So your pump shot gun and semi auto are classed differently but will run the same course, thus making it sure the competition is not just one type gun showing up. I like the range of methods for arrow handling that have come up and don't want to see it become about the one fastest method and nothing else. I would add formalized names for the various methods would be nice.
I tried the technique developped by Lars Andersen and Lead longbow because it was compatible with mediterranean draw. Problem when you try it with something else than a short bow, brace height can be too long to grab the arrows, your arrows might be too heavy to hold them straight and ready to nock. Another archer Panagiotis Kavalieratos made a video 3 years ago, same results, you need a short bow and short arrows. Also you need custom arrows with a wide nock or no nock at all. Personally, shooting with the Jackal Assyrian and classic 30 inches arrows with classic nocks, it simply doesn't work without the proper material. Also something very common with fast shooting, your feathers end up broken very fast. So guys, if you want to practice fast shooting, you need the proper bow, a long one for oriental fast shooting (longer brace height and draw length), a short one for the comanchy version (shorter brace height, shorter draw length). I recommand a bow with a small grip for the comanchy style. For the arrows you need a wide nock, easy to nock and easy to pinch. And you should use short feathers with comanchy technique and long ones with 3.5 inches between the nock and the feathers for oriental technique. This way I think you can start practicing seriously and improve quickly.
I think distance will affect speed for some techniques. Some techniques might be application specific, and so comparing a fast technique that can shoot 3 accurate shots at 50m or more isn't necessarily going to be comparable to a speed technique loosing 5 arrows in close quarters even faster, but with less range accuracy and penetration.
Back to School.. will it be a series? I would love to see you following the lessons of Mihai Cozmei, could from the earlier video where he still shoots with thumb. I tried myself, and was satisfying when you get the rhythm. in my case accuracy was terrible. I commented once that there too many bow reviews. I am very happy with all the videos you are making. You do a good work Armin.thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I would be very curious about what you would come around when you try to shoot larp arrows fast. The foam tips make them a little bit awkward to handle, and the top-heaviness makes it difficult to hold a bunch of them at their rear ends. Atm im doing best with grabbing them behind the tips, but im curious if i'm overlooking something. Like your style at the last segment of the video.
Think you do it right! 3 to 5 larp arrows with foam tips I can hold together with the bow handle in the bow hand. While shooting mediterranean style I pick one at the time near the tip end and bring it around the string to nock it. Works fine for me in combination with blind nocking, also when under stress and moving around.
I’m used to using differently colored “Odd feathers” to make it easier for identification. That may help to twist the arrow into the proper position. I’m new to Asian bows, but in Mediterranean archery style, the odd feather is colored differently from the other two feathers. It would take me too much time to identify the odd feather if all were the same color. I hope that this may help.
one goal of this kind of shooting is to not look at the arrows and nock blind so to say. So a different coloured odd feather might not help. thank you for watching
i'd say some of the regulations should be with a minimum 50 pound bow at 28 inches, and they should draw the the bow minimum of 25 inches draw length, cause it should be effective in real-life situations because it's archery and not guitar playing
when we have targets at 30m, the archer with a 20# bow and 22" draw might not hit anymore. natural selection. But limiting it, will exclude all the new ones...
Hello Armin, Here my suggestions for the WFA standards: 1. Blind nocking of the arrows. 2. Holding, reloading and nocking arrows should be doable with broadheads. 3. Reloading and nocking should be doable on horseback in full galopp. 4. Draw-weight of bow should be 40# or higher. Beginners would not be fast reloaders anyway. 5. Shooting with full draw. 6. Hitting a 1 meter target at distances of 20 meters and 30 meters. Maybe it would be good to involve all the currently known speed shooters on the web, could be done in a whatapp chat in order to gather their thoughts. Greetings, Andre
@@ArminHirmer only time I ever thumbs downed you. 😝 😆 😂. No sir. That last one ☝️ you did was faster than any student I ever had in the time u did it. . Like seriously way 2 go. Ur going to be faster than all of us. It took me a while to do 3 arrows in 9 seconds. Absolutely awesome and this is why u are the best archer of our time. Absolutely awesome 😎.
Servus Armin, ich hoffe ich nerve dich nicht mit meinen Fragen, ich habe Ali Bow angeschrieben ob der Xongkoro nochmal erhältlich erhältlich ist da er auf ihrer Homepage out of Stock ist. Ihre Antwort war Hi Fishcer, Yes it is available. However due to the bow can be easily twisted (and would be very hard to repair) if drawn or strung improperly, we only offer them to experienced archers. Have you shot a manchu bow before? If so, could you share a video of you shooting? Regards, Ali Bow Nun zu meiner Frage, ist der Bogen wirklich so schwer zu händeln? Ali Bow will jetzt noch ein Video von mir wie ich mit den Qinghai schieße. Hi Could you show me a video of you shooting the bow? Regards, Ali Bow
der Bogen ist etwas anfällig fuer twist wenn man ihn nicht korrekt aufspannt. Alibow will nur sicher eggen , dass nicht viele "Garantie" fälle entstehen. Verständlich, sie wollen ihren guten Ruf nicht aufs Spiel setzen.
Did he actually say the odd feather is out, or dis he just say look at the feather to see how it slides along the string. If the odd feather is important, just make four fletched arrows and make your life easier 😁 I like this idea for a series.
Wow... that's a tough assignment to do... shooting fast how to time it because so many technique..but I would suggest that if the timer starts from grabbing a bunch of arrows put it in a quiver and then on to whatever arrangements arrows technique apply then shoot...I think then some technique could come because some fast shooting is merely about nocking and launching the arrows in a prepared arrangements of the arrows which was never time how fast that would take😅🤔...if in a quick situations if our bow and arrows are on the wall or in a quiver like all in a bunch of them and suddenly we are under attack..then we will be slower to react due to our arrows need to be arranged in the hand in certain ways...and what if it is in a jungle situations were we need to be agile moving jumping running and stuff....he he ..some thinking huh ..lar Anderson would be thrilled to take this challenges and develope some moves...and maybe that might sparks out some young talents to try it...just my humble thoughts... following
@@ArminHirmer do u have ur own website that sells bows for me to browse ! Im a big fan of yours sir ❤️ , im okay with 40-50 pounds and my budget is around 4-6 Hundred dollars .
As for the rules for fast shooting, why not go for that rule from Saracen archery. You must hit a target at 60 bows length, or what ever it was, with 3 arrows, under 1.5 second. As this discipline is not used for war. So you don't have to shoot 10 arrows. Much like how the Manchu had that test with drawing heavy bows. All you had to do was draw the bow to proove yourself.
Tried the pinched grip of Lars with a really low poundage bow and at the first attempt, the nock slipped my grip and I slapped my face hard but it was so funny!
One would think that if under real pressure to shoot fast, one would never have the luxury of time aligning anything like the cock feather. Good excuse for 4-fletch arrows
@@srinjoyroychoudhury7034 I could be wrong. But Man I swore he used thumb. It’s so hard to tell from his videos. But I was positive he used thumb. I could be wrong. And I mean he could use any way and still be the greatest. Dude should be an avenger.
@@ArminHirmer that’s awesome, I just learned something new. I never knew that. I thought he only used thumb. Until the Native American video. That’s so awesome. This makes him so much more awesome in my opinion, I love it when people are universal 😎.
My only problem with this is it is really necessary? What's the point? Spraying the countryside with arrows? I am reminded of those full auto enthusiasts of firearms who simply love spraying the target with slugs. It has no reason for being and speaking as someone who is both an archer and a Vietnam vet one arrow, like one bullet, is all you should need. Anything else is just waste, of time and effort.
Um ....yeah ....if it takes a heap of dexterity just to nock an arrow...then your not offering the viewers anything except a crap ton of frustration and time wasted when they could simply learn the correct historical technique that is far far far more simple, far easier without all the frustration and the viewer will feel like they have been given something of real value and importance. If you have to arrange the arrows...be it the nocks or the fletching prior to shooting ....then you have missed the entire point and you do not know how to blind nock, the whole point of blind nocking is to be able to just grab an arrow or arrows from a quiver and immediately and quickly fire them off in a way that maintains total control of the arrow so that the risk of miss nocking or fumbling the arrows is very low
No matter my education or experience;I always consider myself a student, so I can always learn and not limit myself by personals goals I previously accomplished or ego. Great video brother. Thanks for the shout out. 🙏
Oh how I love it that FINALLY Archers working together to improove archery, instead of telling each other what they do wrong. This is the right thing to do. I wished I had people like this when I started 24 years ago. Imagine where I could be today... Imagine where you can be in 20 years if you start training all that stuff NOW!
thanks 1000 times for your will to cooparate and for this video especially.
Sunday next Episode ;)
Is a cool technique like everything everyday practice and it depends on each one. Better not concentrate on the odd feather don't look when nock. the eyes on the target. and works. A lot of practice. It's always good to see you enjoy when you shoot. Cheers Armin 👍
I agree ☝️ 💯 percent.
Just at first u need to concentrate on it. Very very much, Because when u first start. Arrows need to be in the hand the same exact way every single time. So if your ever in the dark or while just waking up early in the morning or in the middle of the night you can grab your arrows the same exact way every single time. But it takes time to get to that point. But it’s also something you can teach yourself while sitting there watching t.v, You won’t need to pay attention to it later on. But when u first start it’s best to be very very careful on how You learn. So it’s not a inch off here and there. Grabbing them wrongly could cause interruptions while shooting. And if there’s multiple targets to hit quickly you don’t need any interference.
Sooo glad the archery world is coming together on the varied styles of shooting.
I am sick n tired of "Bow Snobs" that teach their way is the "proper" way!
Keep us posted on your WFA findings.
Thanks Armin!🏹🏹
If you mean to say that there is no proper way when it comes to speed archery.....you would be wrong.....speed archery is primarily a technique used by medeaval middle Eastern archers....it's possible that archers of the steppes practiced a type of speed archery but there's no record of it written or otherwise....however not only is there evidence there's written instructions in the case of middle Eastern archery and in those instructions are the do's and dont's of shooting and specific techniques and methodology. I'm starting to think that I'm the only one who did the reading ....because all I see is people just making shit up and developing some level of ability with that ....but regardless of how good it looks to the layman it still will look like crap to someone who knows the "right way" as macks stuff looks to me ...like crap
@@jareth7456 My comment should have stated "the one proper way" Too many of the Olympic styles archers that shoot round targets at known distances poo poo the 3 D archers. Macks way may work for him, but not me (not that I can speed shoot anyway). Lars Andersons method works for him, but some of his stuff looks staged or edited. Either way my point is Shoot! Shoot a bow, shoot a firearm of any style, and have fun doing so without dinging on the next guy! Have fun shoot straight!
I will do a video on drawing from the quiver right now I can do 1 arrow per 2 seconds and have achieved under 1 second per arrow with arrow placement in the quiver. Arrow placement in the quiver is absolutely important learned that from Mihai, and easy to do. Loading from the quiver is the next step. And I promise To release another video. And sir you did excellently well. Ur a true master archer.
Your comment makes me think of one of Armin's quiver reviews. Looked liked folds of material inside the quiver. Would probably hold war arrows in perfect orientation.
@@lelandosaka8906 dude I need this. ASAP.
@@lelandosaka8906 I’ve been trying to find the video. Do you know which video it was.
@@BLACKXARCHERY My comments might be getting flagged for the link. The video is "Korean Military Quiver by Yeochang Yun - Review" about 2 minutes in. The Japanese used a similar setup. I might knock something out with cardboard or old election signs to test things out.
What you described at the end kinda reminds me of Turkish speed shooting, where they'd hold arrows around the head of the arrow, between their knuckles.
Great video as always.
yes thats the Turkish way :)
Thanks Armin and Mack, I’ve been practicing nocking the arrows like this all week, after watching Mack’s videos. I’ve gotten the hang of quickly nocking one arrow, but when I try to hold 3 like that, I’m all thumbs and drop them. Definitely a steep learning curve! 🤣 thank you both 👍😊🏹
Well brother that's because this method takes far too much dexterity....a real actual historical methodology used in warfare for shooting very quickly would in fact use almost zero dexterity......if you think someone is going to pull off all this highly dexterous finger gymnastics in the midst of battle with their body flooded with adrenaline scared out of their mind and possibly either sick or wounded ......not likely.
Practice practice practice. Can't wait to try these different techniques. 🙏
You can hold 3 arrows in thumb and pointing figer verry close to each others and in one movment when string back gently drive next arrow by pointing finger into string and shot again and again.
But you need thumbrung for stronger bows.
I love these videos! So calming, yet infromative and inspirational at the same time. Can't wait to get outside later today and try this technique. Thanks so much!
I'm using a similar technique, I'm curious if y'all might prefer it. I'll make a video about it soon
have you ever seen "archery boras" videos? he's using arrows with 4 feathers but spaced 120/60 degrees instead of even 90. you can shoot the arrow either way around and its the same. also you get the space between the feathers for your finger when shooting slavic. seems ideal for what you're trying to do.
nope, never saw them. thanks for the hint
I think the combination will do it. 3 preloaded arrows like bambambam and than you grap you bundle and go bam, bam, bam... If you think in a fight in the woods, after you hit the first 3 very fast, the rest will probably hide and you have more time. But who knows...
I would really like to have more tutorials of different fastshooting stiles. 3 Arrows Mondays 😄
Dude I love that and I agree ☝️. And that was actually a very solid point.
One thing I’d like to add to that is In my opinion, If u learn to grab from the quiver and grab the same exact way every time you won’t need to preload. Because u will already be grabbing them the same exact way every time.
There is another kind of ancient draw if you want to try, While pulling the drawing hand just put the thumb like a hand pistol gesture or a kind two fingers slavic draw. Its use in South east Asia, very stable to shoot anyway. In Thai vs Malay War they used in a boat, on an elephant or to shoot the person a elephant. I posted a link to a mural before but I suppose commenters can't send a link
Excellent - the art continues.
Love IT! So much unknown, and so many various techniques. Will be a study within itself to find in a tried and true measure which techniques work for which situations. Inspiring to see so many into Archery Speed Shooting. Great Job Armin! Please keep them coming.
Well I would say that the very first thing a fast reloading method/blind nocking technique should be is simple nor should it require a bunch of highly dexterous finger gymnastics...no .....it should require nearly zero fine motor dexterity because if you think you gonna pull off your finger gymnastics in the midst of battle with your body flooded with adrenaline......I'd say you're not being realistic
I think too few people in the archery community put anytime into learning to shoot fast, for me its very important as historically it was seen as something you had to be able to do or you were just weren't very good. Shooting fast and on target is as much a skill as shooting precision slowly in my opinion they are just different.
What a great idea!
Do keep us posted on this, seems really interesting!
Setelah sekian lama menunggu, akhirnya Masrter Armin membuat konten teknik memanah lagi... 😍😍😍
every week I do :D
i have a chem test tomorrow and idk wat am doing here but i’m very intrigued
Amazing. Thank you Armin so much This is what I needed.
Armin just feel your nocks and line them up. Don't worry about the odd feather. I learned not to worry about the odd feather from you. The most important thing to nocking fast is the nock position Mack being an American is worrying about the odd feather where he doesn't really need to. But if your nocks are lined up with the odd feather then it helps. But you have said in the past that the odd feather doesn't matter and I agree. So free yourself from the feathers and concentrate on feeling the alignment of the nocks. But this does make Macs achievement even better.
of course, but I obviously first follow the teacher ;)
just spent the last few hours practicing and found that lining the cock feather with the forefinger and index just took my draw to a new level. I have left eye dominance and am right handed, but my left eye is long sighted and my right eye short, so notching arrows quickly is...problematic. However, using that two finger/cock feather method means i get the arrow notched, drawn and released in one fluid motion (thumb release). Thank you.
Awesome. Very humble of you
9:51 this is the way i do my fast shooting Technique and i've been doing it for over a year, i've learned it from you a long time ago 👍
So the next thing I want to learn :D :D
It really does not stop revealing new things what one can do with a bow.
I have attempted the Commanche style fast shooting but I am not that accurate. I do use a thumb ring and hold my extra arrows and bow with my bow hand. The arrows on the bow hand are arranged that I can easily grab, nock, draw, release, and repeat with good grouping at 20 yards. Someday I would like to visit Armin for lessons in person.
Looking forward to seeing that.👍🏼👍🏼🇺🇸
Regulations is a verty interesting way to shape what speed contest may look like
Reloading might flatten things between fast shooter slow reloading(like the technique you showed) and moderate fast shooting but simpler reload
Thanks for sharing, will try that today:)
6:45 "It needs to happen while I load" yeah that's why I typically stick with the method Mihai uses, 8:55 then sleight of hand is minimal.
JoergSprave "instans Legolas" is THE winner 😀
Joerg is fun. Seems like a good guy to have a beer with.
until you have to reload it :)
he did not made it reload from the other side (using bolts instead of arrows) it could be fast with slide in magazines but with a little practics you can get it right from quiver aswell.
Nope - i beat that Legolas in Speedshooting. And the Legolas used a 20 Pound Bow, while i use a 50 Lbs Bow. Even Lars is jealous on my Technique, he wrote me a mail a while ago... i never wrote back :D
@@AlfaRevoluzione ......and then did everybody in the room applaud? Don't throw your arm outta socket patting yourself on the back.🙄
I actually used this technique since I startet archery a few years ago. Thought it to be rather common and no big deal :-)
Yes there are different kinds of markers for different kinds of archery. But for speed shooting I like your mention about 10 arrows in 30 seconds, and how do you handle getting the arrows out of the quiver. Seems like there is enough people who have mastered recreating different kinds of speed shooting just shooting a couple arrows. So feels like there is a good foundation there. But adding in the dynamic of pulling arrows from a quiver, that would be a really good marker. Great video
Very cool news!
I figured out a fingerdraw technic years ago I m training with... I also thought about making RUclips videos... but then I always thought I dont become a great youtuber and nobody will look at my videos... so therefore I just silently experimenting and training for myself... however... my fingerdraw technic is similar to slavic release... the only thing is to add the thumb to the index finger so then you pinch the arrow with the Index finger on right side and the thumb on left side... this gives even better stability then slavic and you can even shoot nockless arrows with this style... of course you use 2 fingers under the arrow to draw the string same like in slavic too... and with this modified slavic release I am. also holding the arrows like mack and in this video... I also enjoy your videos and reviews a lot Armin! komm mal wieder nach Bayern und lass uns mal zusammen Speed Shooting machen :) Prost Armin!
Whenever I try this method (I learned it from Mack---from Martin Sporri's content except he uses two-fletched arrows), I practice doing it with the odd feather turned the other way to test my own limits when it comes to speed and "sleight of thumb" as I say, so that way it doesn't become somewhat of a crutch to have the odd feather poking out already, know what I mean? Working on how fast can get the nock alignment down without overthinking.
I know what you mean, but I prefer to simply neglect the odd feather :)
@@ArminHirmer yeah so the next time I get arrows (I've got my eye on bamboo since apparently it's more pliable, won't snap so easy---any feedback on bamboo arrows is appreciated) I'm grabbing a pack where all the feathers are the same like white or red
Thank you so much for sharing your first steps in another technique! 👍
It reminds me of myself trying to figure out blind nocking 😁
You’ll manage it quickly!
Keep up the fun! 🏹🔆
I'll teach you one
maybe there is something like burst shooting like preload hand shooting and on the other side continous manner shooting like reloading from quiver only and a mixed manner
I think to evaluate speed shooting both accuracy and penetration needs to be counted. Say, on target would be a full score and slightly off would be half a score and so on. Same goes with penetration, with >5 inches being a full score and 3-5 inches being a half score and so on. Who can get the most score out of 30 seconds (regardless of # of arrows) would be the winner.
If you look at fire arm competitions. They divide things into differant classes, but all compete in the same firing range. So your pump shot gun and semi auto are classed differently but will run the same course, thus making it sure the competition is not just one type gun showing up. I like the range of methods for arrow handling that have come up and don't want to see it become about the one fastest method and nothing else. I would add formalized names for the various methods would be nice.
thanks for your input
I tried the technique developped by Lars Andersen and Lead longbow because it was compatible with mediterranean draw.
Problem when you try it with something else than a short bow, brace height can be too long to grab the arrows, your arrows might be too heavy to hold them straight and ready to nock. Another archer Panagiotis Kavalieratos made a video 3 years ago, same results, you need a short bow and short arrows.
Also you need custom arrows with a wide nock or no nock at all.
Personally, shooting with the Jackal Assyrian and classic 30 inches arrows with classic nocks, it simply doesn't work without the proper material. Also something very common with fast shooting, your feathers end up broken very fast.
So guys, if you want to practice fast shooting, you need the proper bow, a long one for oriental fast shooting (longer brace height and draw length), a short one for the comanchy version (shorter brace height, shorter draw length). I recommand a bow with a small grip for the comanchy style.
For the arrows you need a wide nock, easy to nock and easy to pinch. And you should use short feathers with comanchy technique and long ones with 3.5 inches between the nock and the feathers for oriental technique.
This way I think you can start practicing seriously and improve quickly.
Cheers
Great video you two! Mack, I finally see how you do it, will try this soon... and Armin, why did not you nominate me with my bowhand style 😂 ?
Great video! I love your channel. What bow is the black bow you are using?
snake by arc rolan
I think distance will affect speed for some techniques. Some techniques might be application specific, and so comparing a fast technique that can shoot 3 accurate shots at 50m or more isn't necessarily going to be comparable to a speed technique loosing 5 arrows in close quarters even faster, but with less range accuracy and penetration.
I can't wait to watch everyone set speed records!
Thank you
Back to School.. will it be a series? I would love to see you following the lessons of Mihai Cozmei, could from the earlier video where he still shoots with thumb. I tried myself, and was satisfying when you get the rhythm. in my case accuracy was terrible. I commented once that there too many bow reviews. I am very happy with all the videos you are making. You do a good work Armin.thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Next will be running… on sunday
@@ArminHirmer Nice! Look forward to it!
Are those defined standards for fast archery already published in some video? I can't find them anyway :/
Dont forgozle having a straight Arrowflight on yor Speedshooting Competition. Important aswell.
first the speed :D :D
I would be very curious about what you would come around when you try to shoot larp arrows fast. The foam tips make them a little bit awkward to handle, and the top-heaviness makes it difficult to hold a bunch of them at their rear ends. Atm im doing best with grabbing them behind the tips, but im curious if i'm overlooking something. Like your style at the last segment of the video.
Think you do it right! 3 to 5 larp arrows with foam tips I can hold together with the bow handle in the bow hand. While shooting mediterranean style I pick one at the time near the tip end and bring it around the string to nock it. Works fine for me in combination with blind nocking, also when under stress and moving around.
I taught Mack that arrow grip!!
Hey Armin. Ich bin ein Einsteiger. Welche Bogenart würdest du mir für das traditionelle Bogenschießen empfehlen?
I’m used to using differently colored “Odd feathers” to make it easier for identification. That may help to twist the arrow into the proper position. I’m new to Asian bows, but in Mediterranean archery style, the odd feather is colored differently from the other two feathers. It would take me too much time to identify the odd feather if all were the same color. I hope that this may help.
one goal of this kind of shooting is to not look at the arrows and nock blind so to say. So a different coloured odd feather might not help. thank you for watching
Yea you can only do this if you have half moon nocks , try it with Regular nocks you can’t shoot that fast with regular nocks .
i'd say some of the regulations should be with a minimum 50 pound bow at 28 inches, and they should draw the the bow minimum of 25 inches draw length, cause it should be effective in real-life situations because it's archery and not guitar playing
when we have targets at 30m, the archer with a 20# bow and 22" draw might not hit anymore. natural selection. But limiting it, will exclude all the new ones...
Hello Armin,
Here my suggestions for the WFA standards:
1. Blind nocking of the arrows.
2. Holding, reloading and nocking arrows should be doable with broadheads.
3. Reloading and nocking should be doable on horseback in full galopp.
4. Draw-weight of bow should be 40# or higher. Beginners would not be fast reloaders anyway.
5. Shooting with full draw.
6. Hitting a 1 meter target at distances of 20 meters and 30 meters.
Maybe it would be good to involve all the currently known speed shooters on the web, could be done in a whatapp chat in order to gather their thoughts.
Greetings,
Andre
@@skyfox9768 i Agree with mister SkyFox, some of these rules should be taken into consideration indeed 🤯
Dannnng u got quick so fast. Holy cow. Most time people go only 5 seconds per arrow. And u got to 2 second per arrow soooo fast. Holy crap.
what I am slow like a snail :D
@@ArminHirmer only time I ever thumbs downed you. 😝 😆 😂. No sir. That last one ☝️ you did was faster than any student I ever had in the time u did it. . Like seriously way 2 go. Ur going to be faster than all of us. It took me a while to do 3 arrows in 9 seconds. Absolutely awesome and this is why u are the best archer of our time. Absolutely awesome 😎.
Servus Armin, ich hoffe ich nerve dich nicht mit meinen Fragen, ich habe Ali Bow angeschrieben ob der Xongkoro nochmal erhältlich erhältlich ist da er auf ihrer Homepage out of Stock ist.
Ihre Antwort war
Hi Fishcer, Yes it is available. However due to the bow can be easily twisted (and would be very hard to repair) if drawn or strung improperly, we only offer them to experienced archers. Have you shot a manchu bow before? If so, could you share a video of you shooting? Regards, Ali Bow
Nun zu meiner Frage, ist der Bogen wirklich so schwer zu händeln?
Ali Bow will jetzt noch ein Video von mir wie ich mit den Qinghai schieße.
Hi Could you show me a video of you shooting the bow? Regards, Ali Bow
der Bogen ist etwas anfällig fuer twist wenn man ihn nicht korrekt aufspannt. Alibow will nur sicher eggen , dass nicht viele "Garantie" fälle entstehen. Verständlich, sie wollen ihren guten Ruf nicht aufs Spiel setzen.
Did he actually say the odd feather is out, or dis he just say look at the feather to see how it slides along the string. If the odd feather is important, just make four fletched arrows and make your life easier 😁
I like this idea for a series.
yeah he did. 4 fletched, then you need to use the batur nocks :)
Wow... that's a tough assignment to do... shooting fast how to time it because so many technique..but I would suggest that if the timer starts from grabbing a bunch of arrows put it in a quiver and then on to whatever arrangements arrows technique apply then shoot...I think then some technique could come because some fast shooting is merely about nocking and launching the arrows in a prepared arrangements of the arrows which was never time how fast that would take😅🤔...if in a quick situations if our bow and arrows are on the wall or in a quiver like all in a bunch of them and suddenly we are under attack..then we will be slower to react due to our arrows need to be arranged in the hand in certain ways...and what if it is in a jungle situations were we need to be agile moving jumping running and stuff....he he ..some thinking huh ..lar Anderson would be thrilled to take this challenges and develope some moves...and maybe that might sparks out some young talents to try it...just my humble thoughts... following
@ Barni Budin
I fully agree with you, the timer should start when touching the first arrow(s).
@@skyfox9768 tq
Can I hunt with a Horse Bow?
yes
Hello Armin , im looking for a all purpose bow ( horse bow ) and preferably composite , which bow u recommend the most
Depends on your draw length and budget
@@ArminHirmer do u have ur own website that sells bows for me to browse ! Im a big fan of yours sir ❤️ , im okay with 40-50 pounds and my budget is around 4-6 Hundred dollars .
@@danzildanzel I dont have sorry. You can just check the videos and see which bow is of your interest
As for the rules for fast shooting, why not go for that rule from Saracen archery. You must hit a target at 60 bows length, or what ever it was, with 3 arrows, under 1.5 second.
As this discipline is not used for war. So you don't have to shoot 10 arrows. Much like how the Manchu had that test with drawing heavy bows. All you had to do was draw the bow to proove yourself.
Tried the pinched grip of Lars with a really low poundage bow and at the first attempt, the nock slipped my grip and I slapped my face hard but it was so funny!
You need to put middle and ring finger on the string, just pinching with thumb and index is not going to work
One would think that if under real pressure to shoot fast, one would never have the luxury of time aligning anything like the cock feather.
Good excuse for 4-fletch arrows
A wise man once said, it really doesn't matter if the odd feather is out 🤔
yepp and when I have to start doing it now in fast shooting, I know something is not working for me :D
I stand schooled 😅.
I always felt Lars Andersons way was better. Simple Slavic style which would get fast via constant training
Lars used thumb draw.
@@BLACKXARCHERY he used everything.
@@srinjoyroychoudhury7034 I could be wrong. But Man I swore he used thumb. It’s so hard to tell from his videos. But I was positive he used thumb. I could be wrong. And I mean he could use any way and still be the greatest. Dude should be an avenger.
@@BLACKXARCHERY he used slavic and thumb and now even pinch draw Native American style :) use whatever works for you
@@ArminHirmer that’s awesome, I just learned something new. I never knew that. I thought he only used thumb. Until the Native American video. That’s so awesome. This makes him so much more awesome in my opinion, I love it when people are universal 😎.
My only problem with this is it is really necessary? What's the point? Spraying the countryside with arrows? I am reminded of those full auto enthusiasts of firearms who simply love spraying the target with slugs. It has no reason for being and speaking as someone who is both an archer and a Vietnam vet one arrow, like one bullet, is all you should need. Anything else is just waste, of time and effort.
some are interested in it and it is a niche of archery, so why not. not everyone has to participate though
Um ....yeah ....if it takes a heap of dexterity just to nock an arrow...then your not offering the viewers anything except a crap ton of frustration and time wasted when they could simply learn the correct historical technique that is far far far more simple, far easier without all the frustration and the viewer will feel like they have been given something of real value and importance.
If you have to arrange the arrows...be it the nocks or the fletching prior to shooting ....then you have missed the entire point and you do not know how to blind nock, the whole point of blind nocking is to be able to just grab an arrow or arrows from a quiver and immediately and quickly fire them off in a way that maintains total control of the arrow so that the risk of miss nocking or fumbling the arrows is very low