Sorry there was a mix up with the editor, the original thumbnail and title that were up for a few minutes are for part 3. It's fixed now, sorry everyone
Depends on your use case, but a friend recently built an AM4 system (5600G + 32GB DDR4) for home office and some very basic gaming at 1080p (JRPGs, Steam back-catalogue etc). He'll maybe upgrade to a dedicated GPU if he ever actually needs it, but so far it does everything he wants
I went from an R5 2600 to a 5700x3D this month. Absolutely insane upgrade. Like it completely refreshed my system. If you're still on OLD (1000, 2000, 3000) AM4 definitely recommend upgrading within AM4.
@Lazarosaliths Yes and no. The voltage is locked, and you can only adjust PBO 2.0 on some motherboards meaning silicon lottery is even more of a factor. Still its a powerful CPU.
@@Lazarosaliths Voltage is locked to not damage the memory they glued on. Sometimes with some bios or specially modifed bios it is possible but it _will_ damage the cpu, for getting records only.
Some games that call the top setting "insane" or "epic" also make sense. A setting for when the game is old and even cheap cards can run it without breaking a sweat. I guess when that day comes for every game, a now-benign-sounding "ultra" will make sense.
I built my son a PC for Christmas. Wasn't quite 2024, but I went AM4 because I had a spare kit of DDR4 kicking around. 5600 + MSI Pro mATX board ran about 400 dollars CAD. Even with AM5 boards coming down in price, I wouldn't be able to put together an AM5 setup for that price.
In canada expect to pay 35 to 40% more than US. Allot of people seem to favoring am5 for new builders and i understand why but for budget builds a 5600 can take you up to 4070 ti/ 7900 xt
To the point about legacy ports on motherboards. I used to work as an IT technician in a UK secondary school and many of the monitors the school had only had VGA ports. We're talking old monitors that the only reason they hadn't been thrown out was because they still worked. Finding the money to get replacements for equipment like this was also difficult.
23:07 I'm with Tim. "End of Life" ("EOL") in this context is more of a technical term, meaning roughly the stop date for the manufacturing of the product. Intel will usually release a "Product Change Notification" (PCN) with a number of milestones, one of which is the last date that you can put in an (non-cancelable, non-returnable) order. Once that date arrives, they can 'cook' the last batch and the product is tagged as EOL.
@@georgejones5019 There's not going to be one clear-cut satisfying answer, especially when considering all the different parts of a platform, and various companies and industries. Some companies differentiate between EoL and EoS (End of Support), with EoS marking the end of software updates, tech-support, repairs, whatever depending on industry and company. For my outline, I drew on Intel PCN 119439-00, which concerns the 400-series chipset. It's written as outlined, and has "End of Life" in the title. Regardless, it's still up to the manufacturer to define the point of EoL and EoS.
In my experience, EOL most often means no longer made/actively developed on, meaning that it still receives security updates and bugfixes, but no new features. Eos (end of service) is when it stops receiving any kind of updates. But the specifics change depending on the company.
I genuinely think that for the people who live in the real world, Zen 3 is still a perfectly viable option. I know it might not be the most representative sample, but most players on Steam are still on Zen 2 and a GTX 1060 or an RTX 2060/2070. I wish I had the money to get the best of the best but it's moving so fast... It's impossible to keep up unless you're ok with spending thousands of dollars/Euros/Pounds every 2/3 years. So yeah, while it may not be the most "future proof" thing to do (we all know it's BS anyway), AM4 with something like a ZEN 3 CPU should be more than enough for most people for a "real world" usage. PS: Still learning English so be kind to me :D
I think for a lot of places in the world, the prices went insane and never recovered. Such that there's nothing decent-value at a similar price we paid for a 1060 or 2060 we bought years ago. The 4060 here is nowhere near the $300 msrp and even if it were, I'm not comfortable spending that amount knowing 8GB won't last me the next 3 to 4 years or beyond.
Even in the pretend world of high end gaming... CPU is not THAT important for gaming that you always need the latest, it matters more than it did during the 7th-8th console generation where Intel CPUs were stagnating and the games were limited by the trash laptop CPUs in those consoles, but still not that much. Even if you run a 4090, so long as you run it at the resolution it's designed for, it will still bottleneck a Zen 3 CPU in 90% of games, and the few exceptions you will still be getting a solid framerate.
AM4 is good if you're already on it or if you have carry over ddr4. If you don't, AM5 is a better deal. Not that am4 isn't sufficient, but 200+150+100 for a 7600 system with an acceptable b650 and a "slow" 32 gb kit is better than a 120+150+100 for a 5600 with an acceptable b550 (yes the am4 mobo are priced at similar or higher prices than am5, fuck them) 32 gb of fast ddr4. There's a 80$ difference (20% more) to get 20% more performance AND to get on a new upgradeable platform.
I wanted to upgrade my brother's PC to AM5 this Christmas, but it turned out the cheapest AM5 combo was twice as expensive as AM4 w/ an R5 3600. As much as AM5 would help with future upgrades and current performance, and taking into account the kind of games he's playing rn and that he's still running on a Polaris card, I deemed it not worth it.
Two things I think should be understood about the AM4 situation. The first is that there will likely always be a market for older Zen1/+ CPUs. There are people talking about just upgrading from 2000 series to a 5000. I'd imagine they wouldn't mind posting their old CPU up on Ebay that someone in some other region would be interested in because the latest are still way too expensive. The next is acknowledging that the fix for forward compatibility on boards with small ROMs was to remove features and older CPU support. That creates 2 very legitimate potential problems. Users upgrading their BIOS to support a new chip that disables the support for the old chip, which could leave them without a working computer if they update before having the new CPU in hand, or got a DOA or failure. The next issue is for people getting those CPUs 2nd hand, but not having boards available that haven't been updated. I work at a computer repair shop and have had a lot of AM4 systems come in. One user needed us to update his BIOS because he literally tossed his old CPU in the trash before doing it himself. I have the wherewithal to know a BIOS update can leave a system inoperable if it removes support for the current CPU, but I know not everyone working in such a place is going to. It's not uncommon to consider a BIOS update as a resolution to any number of issues, and not everyone is going to read the notes. They are still releasing AM4 CPUs, and there needed to be room to address them in the ROM. It doesn't seem appropriate to suggest that the only motivation was that AMD was trying to pull a fast one. With AM5, they've mandated larger ROMs and flashback support as standard. Those things clearly point to an intention of mitigating those drawbacks that existed with AM4.
About the PS/2 and VGA ports, the same is true for Serial and Parallel which are supported on some motherboards - as Steve says, it is about industrial companies. They test and certify that connector X configured in a certain way in an installation (or Docker image) is known to work for that one particular use-case, and then stick with that setup. The more things they change, the more money they have to spend going through the re-certification process. Banking and Railways are two industries where this is a big issue.
i am it in a company ..... half the monitors (about 800 computers ) if not more are still VGA when it comes to buisness and datacenters vga is still very widely used especially for tasks that do not need a fast pc and just need any pc !
VGA barely pushes the equivalent of a 1080p signal. Text just looks comparativly awful through even a mid tier vga cable. Sucks to have to do office work on such a screen, esp since cheap vga monitors will have crappy panels to begin with.
@@adriankoch964cheap Sceptre 24" monitors (roughly $100) are fantastic office monitors. We have tons of them with vga cables. There is 0 difference in quality if they are using vga or HDMI.
@@adriankoch964 i do not disagree , but as far they are working i do not see the logistics department approving the expense so the workers have more crisp looking letters while they do the exact same job .
I work in a datacenter for one of the largest big tech companies. VGA is nonexistent on my site. I can count in one hand the systems that still use it and they r systems that have been on since the first day of opening the site 10 plus years later. These systems dont need high levels of visual quality or processing visual data. But, its definitely better to have a higher standard for general IT equipment. VGA is only used for small companies nowadays. Personally, i think its absurd to expect an IT guy to work on anything older than hdmi at this point. U want legacy equipment expertise, thatll cost u extra!
it doesnt matter ... its a company ... they always try to get away with shady stuff to make more profit. When companies are in a dominant position in the market they just focus on making more and more profit. Just look at nvidia or Intel when AMD was making garbage processors.
In terms of old I/O options I believe still having VGA makes a lot more sense than having PS2 ports because the likelyhood of an older monitor still functioning is bigger than an old keyboard and/or mouse doing so, specially considering some old devices were built with the mindset of actually lasting and if needed getting repaired rather than being tossed aside and replaced after a short time. I've had an old MAG XJ CRT monitor that was purchased around the time we had an old Athlon and a P3 and said monitor only called its quits about the time the first gen of Intel's Core series came around. In comparison I've had a much much newer Smart Tv that had to be replaced after far less usage.
That's incorrect about VGA & PS/2. The reason for VGA ports is because it still makes the screen react much quicker than DVI/DisplayPort or even HDMI, it has much lower input latency than all of them. That's why extreme overclocking boards still have them. Same reason why the PS/2 port is still on some extreme overclocking boards over USB because USB does not work the same way as PS/2 port & during an extreme overclocks the USB keyboards cannot react fast enough to enter bios. the PS/2 port works by using ultra-low level interrupts to the board. While the USB works on signal clock, for which with certain overclocking tunes can be completely ignored by the board.
I got a 5800x3d in March & I am beyond satisfied. For what I do it is fantastic. Im using a 3070TI & I'll probably upgrade to a new gpu next year. But I'm just so happy with my system right now it's not even on my mind.
Heres my case: I have two PCs 1- R7 1700x + B350 + 32gb 3200 + RX550 I use it in my homestudio, to study music and record my own stuff. Bought shortly after the release of 1700x. It is still running good things like Reaper and instrument plug-ins. Second PC is R7 3700x +X570 + 32gb 3600 CL14 + 1080ti. Used for gaming and basic office/editing stuff. Second PC was upgraded today with 5900X! It will be my studio PC. I'll sell 1700x PC and 3700x processor. I'll build a new AM5 7800x3d initially with 1080ti and asap RTX 5000 series. Man...years of AM4 using! Excellent!!! Thanks AMD!
The answer as to why some boards still have VGA and PS2 ports is simple: datacenter KVMs. Lots of datacenters use disposable commodity mobos and CPUs in open air racks using PXE boot for compute rather than spending 20-30x the price for purpose built systems with the same compute power but more enterprise features. Those datacenters tend to use old legacy KVM systems for management, and almost all of those systems use VGA and PS/2. They run these mobos until something burns out, then a guy comes in, unplugs the power, network, PS/2 and VGA ports, slots in a new one, KVMs into it to get it configured, and tosses the old HW into a pile for disposal. As Tim said, these companies are probably ordering mobos in lots of 1000+ a year, and the manufacturers are willing to make a special product that fits this use case because they sell 100x more product to this market share than all of the gaming market combined.
PS/2 port is good to have. I do IT support in a 100 seat institution. There is a windows bug that makes USB keyboard unresponsive on boot some times. Works in BIOS then dies when WIndows loads. You can observe this when numlock light goes down. Connecting PS/2 KB if there is a port solves the problem but otherwise you have to remote in and nuke USB root drivers. It's good to have a possibility to have KB connected to a port that actually interrupts the PC the hard way if needed. For me having at least one PS/2 port is a plus when shopping for motherboards.
Ive just bought a 5800x3d as ive been on am4 for years already. I'm getting close to 200 frames on all favourite games at 1440p so i cant see why i would need to go to AM5 anytime soon
Totally valid, but i think its more for people that want to buy a new system, cause the base r6 7600 is on par with the 5800x3d, and the 7800x3d is about 20% faster in 1080p. i wouldn't expect similar gains with zen5, but it is very compelling regardless for new systems for value.
With the uplifts they're talking about for Zen5 I'm considering it, especially as most of the things I run are CPU bound, my GPU is definitely underused. Thats with a 5800x3d in my box ( it is brilliant though, enjoy it! ). I did seriously do some numbers for the 7950x3d because I could do with the cores, but that was not worth it. Although if they don't release win10 drivers then it'll be a pain, I'll have to actually start looking at VMs... I can also cascade old hardware into other uses so it's not like I'll lose all the value.
@@vlaricshard2 My rule of thumb has always been "dont' bother until you can double the performance", although sometimes that's "double the performance for specific things" like the multicore stuff I've been doing recently. I'm not sure Zen5 is going to be doubling 5xxx even with the uplift over Zen4 people are talking about...
14:39 "Shy are people still obsessed with Ultra settings?" This is something that has irritated me for a long time. My guess it's somewhat connected with the consoles and the PC superiority claims. Let me go a bit back in time. When MechWarrior 2 and MW2 Mercenaries were released there were originally no hardware 3D support, and when looking at VGA cards there weren't really much in the way of hardware support for 2D graphics. It all was done in software. Yet the games supported resolutions and options that made it run as a slide show if you maxed everything. This was as close to "Ultra settings" as you can get, but even the best hardware available at this time resulted in something like 1 - 3 FPS no matter how much money you were able to throw at it. A few years later there was a patch to Mercenaries that allowed it to run with 3DFx Voodo cards, and it was a real upgrade. Still max settings were a slideshow. The idea of including these settings was not because they were usable, but because in a few years they might be usable, and I can't remember that people complained over the games being badly optimized or anything. Thing is we knew that the extreme setting were not usable now, but maybe in the future. Interstate 76 was the same. You tweaked the settings to suit your hardware, and no one could really tun the game at max settings of everything in any reasonable framerate. Yet there were not that much complaints about that. Now there was complaints over general stability and that was totally valid. With patches and faster hardware the game just got better with time as more and more of the high quality graphics options could be raised. Then came the big console leap. I'm mostly talking about Playstation and XBox. The thing is you really didn't have much to say about the graphics and game settings. But it worked. This schooled generations of players that games were to just work, which was not really how PC games had behaved. Now that the users were console schooled expectations of new PC gamers changed. As everything is supposed to work max settings are expected to be usable. if they are called Max, Ultra or whatever doesn't matter. People enables it all and are disappointed when the game becomes a slide show. Now in some games this will work with a Halo GPU like the 4090, but not really with anything less. Then people still feel cheated when their 4070 or RC 7700 presents less than 60 FPS, or even worse less than 30 FPS. This is irritating for me. Ultra settings are just that Ultra. They are not something you should expect to work at good performance with the hardware available as the game is released. Max settings is a bit harder to value. It could be just like Ultra, but it could also be something for the currently fastest hardware. It will still be there in a few years, and by then the hardware might just be able to use those settings and present a decent FPS.
AMD has a fiduciary responsibility towards their shareholders to increase revenue. Like you guys said, bulldozer was awful, they pretty much lost their entire marketshare and had to provide great bang for the buck as they introduced Ryzen.
I had good ddr4 ram so I upgraded to b550 and a ryzen5600. I didn't have the budget for a newer platform. The b450 mobo and ryzen 2600 is still in use in the house too for the kids
I was buying a fairly expensive AM4 board for my sons build recently and was surprised to see a PS2 port on it. I switched that one to a Gigabyte board to NOT have a board with PS2 on it. Maybe I could have pulled out a ball mouse or old ass keyboard and made him use it.... ;)
Technically, if you are not counting the x3D variations, then AM4 lasted for only 4 years, 2016-2020 (which is still a lot but not as long as what people claim it to be). Zen 6 should still definitely be supported lol.
If you already on am4 and using like a 1000-3000 ryzen cpu with a decent motherboard. I think just upgrading to 5000 series you can get huge performance increase just swapping your CPU. I went from 3600 to 5800x3d. Huge gains and especially gaming performance is up there with the current gen. AM4 is magic
Agreed. About 18 months ago, I went from my 2700X to a 5950X. Incredible upgrade! That’s a lot of CPU for cheap when you consider you don’t need to rebuild, you don’t need to replace the motherboard, or the RAM.
Take a thumbs up for being one of the few who actually state that AMD, same for Intel and Nvidia, is not only competing with their rivals but also are competing against themselves. DirectStorage, the only area where it works is for a PC with low amount of system RAM, think 8GB of RAM. The point of it is to reduce the amount of space used in system RAM in holding graphical assets. The problem is that you are pulling the graphical assets from the hard drive directly to the GPU, in which the speed will be limited to the hard drive's bus, be it a PCIe SSD drive or SATA. Meanwhile, there is system RAM that communicates with the GPU at full speed. So if the game offers time to preload a level's asset library into system RAM and the space in system RAM is available, you will get no benefit from DirectStorage. AM4/AM5 Socket life time, the reason for AMD to move to the inevitable AM6 socket is when the pin layout for AM5 can't support the I/O that AMD wants to include into that new generation of Zen CPU. AM5 socket was necessary for DDR5 and PCIe 5 support. The primary reason for AM6 socket is support for DDR6. How soon do we expect DDR6 to hit the desktop market? The other reason for an AM6 socket is a need for more PCIe lanes or if PCIe 6 would require a change in pinouts.
+@LBXZero It's pretty much common knowledge that a company that sells upgrades to previous products is competing with their own products when the new editions are released.
@@mediamanM Not really. For the time period of AMD products barely competing against Intel, basically before Zen 3, many claim that Intel was resting on its laurels for several generations, despite Intel needed to give previous Intel CPU owners a reason to upgrade to the latest platform.
That's not what DirectStorage does. In case you were living under a rock since the advent of PCIe SSDs, the way that the Windows filesystem talks to them doesn't actually allow you to make use of the speed - in actual use at the OS level, a PCIe 5.0 SSD is barely faster than a SATA SSD despite potentially tens or hundreds of times faster. Even copying between PCIe SSDs drops to being only a few times faster than SATA once the cache on either end runs out, if that. DirectStorage allows a game to bypass the standard filesystem limitations and use a different API to get the data off at speeds closer to the native speed of the SSD. This allows the OS to deliver the files that the game is asking for nearly instantly, even bypassing the need to put them in the GPU framebuffer for texture files - the game can call the textures directly from disk rather than moving them into VRAM. This tech was first used on the XBox Series S/X and a similar tech is used by the PS5, and is why they can run textures that would normally not be possible on a system with such limited amounts of shared memory, and why the PS5 has special requirements for the SSDs you can use to upgrade it (not that the drives have to be super fast to be able to do this, the XBox drives are PCIE Gen 3 x2). Right now, you can see the benefits of this tech in pretty much ONE game - Horizon Forbidden West. The game loads in 2-3 seconds on my system, and there is never a single instance of texture pop or other loading artifacts that we have been seeing for years. It's pretty glorious, to be honest. I hope other devs get their acts together and start using it sooner rather than later.
@@LBXZero I have a dedicated 4tb PCIe gen 4 NVME drive. What difference would that even make? An NVME drive isn't affected much by simultaneous access. Where are you putting yours at, an IDE drive? Because that was the last standard for storage that was slowed down in any meaningful way by having multiple applications accessing them at once. Once SATA came out and had NCQ support, even mechanical drives are smart enough to use their on board cache to mitigate that.
Been rocking my 5950x rig since 2021. I plan on skipping am5 altogether and will upgrade when am6 hits. The only upgrade i did was a 3070 to 7900xt. With decent curve + pbo settings my rig will last me regardless. I personally wouldn't build an am4 rig at this point either but those who are stuck on it I think our systems are still sufficient
I got a 5900x and I can't decide if I made a wise decision sticking with am4 or not (it was a new build, not an upgrade). I did get the cpu at like 51% off, though.
The main problem with features like Direct Storage is basically same thing we could observe with memory expansion cards for systems back in times of Comodore 64, they would make card or cartridge that would expend memory or maybe even add functionality. But games would very rarely use it because all games would get made for baseline system that 100% of system owners have. So you would get few odd games that would adapt it. Because they don't want to sell to subset of subset of customers. Like 10-30% that might have had that expansion card. They want to sell to everyone. Same is with Direct Storage. They don't want to make game that needs it and immediately alienate SATA SSD users, HDD users, slow old NVMe users,...they want to sell to as many users as possible. So they will either not bother at all or make implementation that makes it very optional. I mean look at the gamescape now, sure we got games that require SSD and don't work well off HDD. But how many of them require anything beyond SATA SSD? Maybe Rachet & Clank, but I am not even sure for that one. Sure raytracing was accepted, but i can imagine nVidia was investing fortune into accelerating that and even that is just at stage of nice to have but optional. If nVidia didn't bother and just made it available, probably half of the games we got wouldn't use it. Sure all of that will get required eventually, but only when developers are sure that most customers will be able to play their game even if they require it. And good portion of rest would have too old hardware to play it anyway. In the end game development is business, it is sales driven. It isn't most technically demanding driven. Hence why Crysis is more one of a kind than regular stuff. Would love to see more of it, but it would require someone who would say they don't need to earn much.
I have used Direct Storage in Miles Morales and R&C Rift Apart and it was amazing! definitely not overhyped can’t wait till it gets adapted in more games in the future
I was on AM4 and my wife and I planned to keep it going, build a new one later, then sell the old one. Then my DeepCool AIO, guaranteed not to leak, leaked and took out my video, AIO, and Mobo. Since they refused to back up their guarantee we are now building an AM5 system.
16:22 The game _Tomb Raider: Legend,_ from 2006, had what I think is the correct answer to that question, at least in terms of naming. There was an option called Next Generation Content, which used completely different rendering. It wasn't completely stable, and it's debatable whether it really looked better, but the concept is sound - call settings that aren't supposed to work with contemporaneous graphics cards "Next Generation", and it's clear that this is something that should only be used in the future when hardware has become notably faster.
I got an AM4 motherboard last week (the MSI B550-A Pro) because the one i got in 2018 (MSI B350M Gaming Pro) wasn't being supported anymore. It's the last AM4 thing I will be buying, period. It's very solid. I'd already upgraded to the 5800X3D and RX 7900XT by that point. That system saw 2 new CPUs and 2 new GPUs since I bought it (3700X from 1700X and 3060Ti from GTX 1080 before the current spec).
We use KVMs that still have PS2 and VGA connections for our shared computers housed in server rooms at uni. Students remote into them using RDP or SSH but for us having re-use of 50 to 100 KVMs reduces costs when needing to stand in front of the machines.
To the person who asked if products would be "bargain priced" for upcoming AMD CPUs - get real. That's not how companies generate profits and stay in business. If you're looking for a bargain, buy previous generation or used.
you're right. Zen4 prices will come down when Zen5 releases and I guarantee there will be people selling their 7600s when the 9800X3D comes out. however I think AMD will release an entry level CPU for AM5, but it might be an APU.
@ChristmasCrustacean1 apus should really just take over the entry level market. Honestly I think apus are eventually coming to the high end as well. You gain quite a lot by having everything so close and unified. Once we can't go any smaller with transistors we will just increase die sizes and 3dstack. Eventually you have to make everything unified to get more performance
Nvidia could release the entire 50XX series as 8GB - yes including the 5080 and 5090 - and they'd still sell like crazy and dominate the market. Most consumers don't know jack.
@@drago939393 That's dumb take. People who buy 5080/5090 play at 4k. You wont have good experience with 8 GB in no way. That would be a downgrade even from 4070.
23:35 Not "to" 2025. It was "through" 2025. It's a very important difference. It means supported to the end of 2025 at a minimum, with the "plus" indicating likely support beyond the end of 2025.
I've just upgraded from a 4790k with 32Gb ddr3 2400mhz to a simple AMD 7600 with 32Gb 6000mhz and the jump uas been insane. I only opted for a 7600 as im waiting for the next gen to drop, cant wait
Zen 4's low sales is due purely to LGA socket and high AM5 motherboard prices because of said LGA socket. I still haven't sold a single one to a customer who still want AM4 CPU's and motherboards.
Regarding legacy ports like VGA, you can always buy an adaptor, like DP to VGA. But in terms of parrallel ports, often in the 90s or early 2000, there were fabrication systems or other industrial machinering (think a metal plate cutting machine, that was designed to run on these ports at the time. And they machines still run, and perform well, so they need older ports to make them work when the computer driving it from the 90s finaly dies.
On Zen6 AM5 support a compromise could be some high end CPUs using a derived socket perhaps branded Thread Ripper, supporting more PCIE & memory channels. If Zen5 is launched and they don't confirm Zen6 on the socket, then that's the time to suspect the plan hit snags.
Back when AM4 was newer I decided to go with the 9700KF on Z390 not because it was that much better, it wasn't a crazy amount more and I felt I could trust it to be reliable; I didn't see Ryzen becoming what it has. Now I kick myself because I'd have upgraded to a 5800X3D... However, there was no way of knowing it'd be as successful as it was. The longevity of AM4 is amazing and woulda worked great for me. Especially with X3D being amazing in Star Citizen. I dont really care tho cause there's no changing the past. I will however be upgrading sometime around black friday and I hope I can, make a better choice, get a nice and fresh AM5 X770(if it's called that) that has USB/Thunderbolt 4 out the wazoo, definite PCIE 5 support, and slap a 7800X3D on a black friday sale in, cause Zen5 should be out. Thats my hope at least. Then I'll upgrade my 6900XT in like five more years or something 😅. Get a 6090 or something lol
And don't forget taking inflation into consideration when you talk about prices. AMD Ryzen prices currently aren't too bad taking that into account. I've just build a PC with a Ryzen 5 7600, 32GB DDR5-6000-CL30 and a RX 6800 on a B650M motherboard. It runs great! A lot of bang for buck!
Depends how much you understand inflation to be corporate greed. At least half of the price increases you've seen, sometimes more, is just more profit forever bs.
@@joeykeilholz925 a lot of raw materials that go into a CPU have risen a lot in price in the past couple of years. And thats just one of the things that influence price
@KaffeeKitteh I'm not a fanboy and not defending anyone. It's just how corporations work. Why are you so upset? Did those corporations hurt your feelings? At least AMD still gives you nice cheap options on AM4
I was one of those early adopters of AM5, and because I was chasing high end Audio, I ended up paying over $800 (Australian Dollars) for ROG Strix X670E-F Mother Board. Of course, less than 6 months later, they announce the X3D CPU's, after I'd purchased the Ryzen 7 7700X......wish I'd known that was coming..... So I'd really be pissed if they went to AM6 with literally only 1 upgrade since I purchased my upgrade in November of 2022.
I don't have too much to say. I've been using a different mechanical 60% keyboard atm. I like how I have much more desk space now and every key sounds glorious with that RGB special effects.
I am glad these new chips and motherboards exist for the people who need them . Engineers, Graphics Artist and the Medical system. For the layman though that use just video streaming and general use. I would not recommend an upgrade. We spend too much money on the newest and greatest stuff. My system is an AMD 3 motherboard, with a FX 6100 chip. Nvidia 1030 Card Over 10 years old. Never had a problem . The secret is to re thermal paste the cooler and every 6 months clean the case and fans.. Just my take on the state of computing
The only thing I will add to the overclock conversation is that Radeon GPUs would be an exception to the rule. They still love a good UV/OC and you can gain some serious performance depending on the GPU. Definitely worth a shot with Radeon 6000 and 7000 cards.
You can make some of this case about intel now regarding value. I bought the 13900kf for 500 when 7950 was 750 and i used old ram. It has issues though right with the heat. Not sure there really is a free lunch. The biggest thing for me back when amd was the underdog was the cores they added. With intel we were stuck at 4. That was a big deal. Intel kind of has done that now, practically they are evenly matched that's good for competition; You have one wanting market share the other wants to keep it. Will amd raise prices probably yes. But take note it's very competitive. I don't think personally it will last. They are over estimating the issue with intel in that case. You may lose 5% with intel maybe, and energy just doesn't matter that much it does matter it's just not the only thing to consider. Some but not that much. Not 100 dollars maybe 40 dollars. Intel is very competitive, and the differences between the cpus it's nothing like with amd and nvidia. Nvidia really can do things amd cannot. I'm not saying amd is bad but they are different products. You may not all want those things and that's ok, but that is how this competition factors into this. Just look at the prices to explain it. It's usually very logical. I guess that's what you are saying though. I'm personally happy with my intel cpu even now just because of the price. I do a productivity/gaming build. If the prices were identical i'd have gone with amd because of the energy and some of the potential software issues with big little (being newer). It's not worth much though. Not when the performance is basically the same for most use cases.
Always a pleasure watching you too discuss current topics. If you get sec, 2 boards I'm interested in as get so many questions over them on local forum are the B650 Eagle AX as the vrm seem better than the more expensive B650 Gaming AX and also the asus tuf a620 gaming wifi, as on paper, it seems to be much more compelling than other a620 boards as has a 12+2 50a vrm setup which seems a lot more than the a620 board you tested earlier in the year..also 2.5gb lan. I don't see any reviews for either of these boards so shedding some light would be great. I'm hesitant to recommend an a620 board for gaming, esp on back of that asus prime a620 you looked at awhile back
The problem with tweaking graphics settings is that many devs don't show you a visual preview of each setting. So some people just resort to 'ultra', particularly if they feel that their PC can brute force through it, as it takes a bit of time to optimise settings. Also, something labelled 'medium' or 'low' quality doesn't mean anything to me. It's arbitrary.
Concerning Zen 6 on AM5 - They could always release Zen6 on both AM5 and AM6 thereby keeping everyone happy (it should be quite easy to disable extra memory channels that Zen 6 might have that AM5 socket hasn't got) !
I use a VGA output on one of these boards for playing old games ion a CRT monitor. Sometimes i use steam remote play to play modern ones. So it has it's niche use. I work in industrial electronics engineering and there are still some VGA systems, but they are normally purpose built systems and not consumer mainboards.
Overclocking wise I do like core sync and to take the turbo time limits off. This tends to be stable and lets you get those maximum rated speeds a lot more often.
Hey guys Listen. I love platform longevity. I think even as a dominate player now. Amd cpu price wise has been reasonable. Fortunately I do live near a micro center so am5 to me was very reasonable priced due to free ram etc. Now platform longevity. Like you guys said. They don’t wanna box themselves in. If they could offer a crazy ipc performance increase but different platfrom. Would the consumer want themselves to be boxed in ? I wouldn’t. I would understand it at that point. Disappointing. Yes. Understandable. Yes. End of the day they are a company and we do want them to bring the most performant products to market.
Direct Storage is overhyped on account on SSD speeds being ridiculously overhyped for what normal use is concerned. As we saw with RTX IO Portal, the tech is awesome for SATA SSDs. Ironically, Direct Storage hypers would buy their fast SSD, get a heat sink, for the games loadings, then wait for Direct Storage to do its magic (it doesn't) and of course all this while having run out of storage space because they should've gotten a larger mid performance SSD, and buy the fast one later on if need be.
AM4 will be the go-to platform for budget builds for years to come. They sold a gazillion of them, CPUs range from 4 to 16 cores, decent performance all-around, with extremely broad compatibility and flexibility in build options. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3600 and 5600 become the new "forever CPUs" like the 2500k and 2600k used to be.
I doubt they'll last as long since gen-over-gen improvements are much higher now than they were back then. Those cpu's lasted forever because the newer stuff that came after them wasn't really much better. Nowadays the newer stuff is notably better than what came before it. Zen 3 over zen 2 is a decent upgrade, and again for zen 4 over zen 3, with zen 5 again looking like another good upgrade if leaks are any indication (no not the bs 40% stuff, but even the more reasonable leaks say 15%).
I went AM5 because I got a steal on a refurb mobo and 7800x3d. If I had to pay full price, hell no. AM4 with a 5700x3d is unbeatable for the coming years.
I work in the games industry here in Malaysia and I recently visited one of the bigger indie studios here. Their monitor had just died and when I looked at it it was probably a 1024x768 monitor with a VGA connector😂 So no, not just random business companies.
DirectStorage could be pretty great, but on PC it was way late, and GPUs are still missing a dedicated decompression block for it, so using GPU decompression is just a hit to GPU performance while saving CPU performance, and most people are GPU limited rather than CPU limited.
This, basically. DirectStorage is just less useful on PCs than its equivalent is on consoles. But that's OK, not every technology has to be revolutionary, widely adopted, useful in every single case and of universal benefit. There will be situations where it shines, there will be other situations where it's useless. So what.
14:38 nice thing about "Ultra" settings in 2024, so many games from past years hold up hella well and... don't require 4090 to run ultra ^_^ Honestly, there's some beauty positives in gaming these days, though I get it, easy to miss amongst the bile in PC / gaming as a consumer heh ~a random canadian subscriber dude
The backwards compatibility of ports has everything to do with industrial machines. Often times a computer will need to be replaced to keep a machine running but it uses some old connection standard. You’re not going to replace a machine worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars just to get a more up to date connector type.
Lemme know if I'm getting anything mixed up, but when Sony showed off direct storage on the PS5 with Ratchet and Clank, hopping through different worlds without loading, it genuinely looked impressive. Like truly next generation. I haven't played the game, but I was surprised to see it release on Steam with just "SSD required", not "NVME gen X over X speed. Is the game different than what they showed, running poor on PC, a lesser port, or was it just never really that impressive? Maybe I'm remembering the whole thing wrong, or I'm getting the tech confused?
I think Directstorage still hasn't become an important feature because most game devs aren't yet interested in doing all of the extra work to take advantage of it, especially because many users are still only using a sata SSD, AND, most games can already offer a very good user experience, with relatively short load times, even from a sata 3 SSD. So many games just aren't going to actually offer a significantly better user experience by taking full advantage of directstorage and the full speed of a good gen 3 SSD. That being said, open world games, and games where the player will be likely to rapidly travel between different areas, could benefit a lot from being optimized to take advantage of direct-storage and NVMe SSD speeds. Just optimizing for gen 3 SSD speeds could allow for some amazing load-time improvements, and could also allow for real time streaming of assets within an open world that is far superior to what can be done with a sata SSD. Of course, the performance of the CPU is also a key factor in this as well.
I actually don't overclock most of the time. I just undervolt my PC most of the time. Because it feels more worth it to save the Watt than to use even more Watt and getting more performance
AM4 is still far from done. It will be a very capable platform for quite some time. What gets people confused and divided is the extremely good adoption that AM5 had. And what helped that adoption A LOT was the way that DDR5 was introduced on the market. Yes it was more expensive than DDR4, but initially the minimum amount you could get was 32GB if you wanted dual channel. There were no 2x8GB kits. So people took notice "yes i pay more, but i also get twice the amount and it's newer, thus futureproof". This also pushed the entire DDR4 market to shift to 32GB where just before that it was considered that 16GB was more than enough. All of a sudden the price jump to AM5 didn't look all the scary and pointlessly expensive. Of course it helped a lot that the 7800X3D took the gaming crown from the 5800X3D with noticeable performance. It all looked justified on the contrast that the previous few years have been with hardware pricing.
1. AM4, for the entry level gaming market, is still viable due to the existence of the X3D chips (5600, 5700, & 5800) for an upgrade in two years as a "last life" for the computer that, overall, is only expected to last 3-4 years. Build an AM4 based system, end up having to spend "way too much" (for the entry level computer gamer) on a mid-market GPU, and then in a couple of years do a final upgrade of CPU and GPU. Further, this links with the AM5 and Zen4 -> Zen5. As you stated, AM5 costs too much... and still does... for many people. Further, it is still "new tech", and as the saying goes "don't buy the brand new, untested, model". When Zen5 is released, likely with a new system board chipset (that will also take a bit of ironing out for stability), the platform will likely be mature enough. This process happens over the next 1.5 years. But, for the person that needs a system now... AM4 is still there. (Unlike Intel, who... everyone knows... changes the entire platform every 2-3 CPU generations and, thusly, provides no upgrade potential.) 2. This is why I'd argue that, yes, the Ryzen 5 1600 did lag compared to the Intel CPUs of the era, but... it also has been much, MUCH, more long lasting due to the extra cores available. (The unliked in the industry "future proofing".) I still have customers, for whom I built Ryzen 5 1600 machines a year or so after the initial release, that play games on these systems. Some have upgraded to Zen2 era CPUs, some have upgraded to Zen3, and two were lucky enough to be able to go to X3D chips. But, before this even occurred... all of them were still working well in the modern era of software (including games) needing extra processing cores (through multiple applications being open at once, multiple tabs open in browsers, etc.). (The 4 core, no hyperthreading... or faintly better 8 core with hyperthreading, era being over. Six core, 12 thread is the new baseline.) This, of course, is a generational issue for AMD sales of the new AM5 platform, too, though. We aren't at a stepping stone like this, yet, where 8 core, 16 thread is a new baseline... or likely will be... in the next few years. The new fight is in high speed memory access (L2 and L3 cache, on die) & capacities along with, moderately, higher clock speeds. (Consumer software hasn't caught up with consumer CPUs yet in multi-threaded applications.) 3. Which leads to why new boards still offer VGA and PS/2... as you stated, it isn't for general consumers (who all use HDMI and USB). Businesses, in particular industrial ones, still need (now) super-entry machines to operate their (high priced when purchased decades ago, would cost VERY HIGH PRICES to upgrade now) equipment which needs legacy ports. (At my particular employer, they still operate computers, attached to machines, that require VGA, PS/2, and ... preferably... SERIAL & PARALLEL ports with file transfer from computer to computer with full sized COMPACT FLASH cards.) VGA will be around for another 10-15 years, minimum, due to its ubiquity. USB is not, always, supported.
I personally love being able to select "ULTRA," settings in a game. It's not even because it sounds cool. I just want to have the absolute best graphical experience I can possibly have. If I wanted the best bang for my buck, I'd go grab a console. I was a kid when games like Dark Forces were around and it's so fun to see what the best of modern hardware can accomplish. What I don't understand are why people are so obsessed with playing games at 4K with Raytracing and HDR. It just doesn't make sense to me. Ok, so now your game looks stunning but it's running at 60 FPS or even lower in many cases. Why would I want to play a game like Alan Wake 2 at 40 FPS. In my mind, that's just stupid.
The leaks suggest that Nvidia isn't serious about their midrange cards and is planning on marketing them as "efficient" meaning mofos are probably going to label the 5060 as a 5060ti and the 5060ti as 5070. And somehow people will praise them for increasing their efficiency and decreasing their die size lol. And as a guy who's been following leakers for the past 5 or so years I can say that they've been mostly right.
OK. So AM4 support is a mixed bag. Yes, largely it was AMD BS - not supporting X370 and B350 boards and supporting 400 series boards later. With 400 series it was small delay, with 300 series it was much harder to bring compatibility to so many boards. They certainly could have brought support for some 300 series mobo's for Zen 3 faster (which would be better IMO). For such wide range though? Some early X370 and B350 mobo's were atrocious. In that case that small part of culpability goes to Motherboard manufacturers - there are some 300 series boards that don't support Zen 3. And when you do install the BIOS that accepts newer parts, you might lock yourself out of using older parts (unlikely, thankfully AMD chose parts they removed carefully, but still it wasn't completely 100% BS - just mostly BS and with effort they managed to "change their mind" - ugh).
My Brother has no problems with a B350 + 5700x combo. It even runs 3200mt DDR4 flawlessly out of the box, which was not possible with the first Ryzen CPU's on that board. No BS, I'm impressed!
Entry level price is around 120€ in EU, we use to find 40€ motherboard back in 2010 for that range. Prices keep climbing all the time. Same goes for SSD. 120€ 2Tb SSD is now 210€ within like 4 month. We all gonna get scamed if we keep buying thoses products.
I expect we'll find out the answer to Zen 6 on AM5 at the AMD Keynote on June 2nd (NA time), so only 5 weeks away! .. and who knows, maybe a 5090 announce from Jensen that same day too, since he does have a "keynote".
Even with Zen 6 not supported on AM 5 we won’t have another option when you’re thinking of Intel fiasco, no matter how good Intel will be you will risk it a lot by not knowing if it is viable after 4-6 months of running. And this is a problem since it makes AMD more chill about promises.
The Intel fiasco is irrelevent to the issue of AMD being misleading and Zen 6 not being supported ok AM5. People who bought Zen 4 with a main reason for it being that they were hoping in a few years they could buy zen 6 and plug and play would still be extremely disappointed and feeling misled regardless of whats going on with Intel. This is something ive seen coming for a while with knowing how long it took to go from Zen 3 to Zen 4, and now with how long its tekken them to launch Zen 4 X3D and Zen 5 taking forever to come out. Theyve only stated 2025 for a reason the plus shouldnt be taken into serious consideration until theres a reason for it. Zen 5 wont be out till later this year lolely, and by the time Zen 5X3D comes out, Zen 6 wouldnt be slated to come out till 2026 atleast. At which point you might get some shitty 9600G or 9600X3D or something long after the 9700X3D in 2026. AMD will say they gave you 4 different CPU gens on AM5 and AM6 is gonna be on AM6 because they needed a new socket for what they wanted to do(which might be right, like moving to big little core design). Personally in that scenario i think that would be the right move on paper, but they shot themselves in the foot by not being more transparent and forward from the start even if they were unsure, just because they wanted to gain some platform longevity sales they werent sure they could even deliver on. Likewise knowing AMD fanboy tribalism, they would likely be forgiven fast as hell and people would make the argument X3D counts due to performance upgrades from non vcache to vcache being significant. That said at this point they should ONLY be launching vcache chips.
18:40 PS/2 is actually good for gaming keyboards, because it has inherent NKRO capability. It takes various tricks to make it work with USB keyboards. It is true, however, that finding good ones these days is difficult. Not that they don't exist, though.
The 7600x launch msrp was $300 the same as the 5600x, the price of the 7600x was lowered shortly after intels 13600k release for $320. This was likely done because intels cpu offered similar gaming performance to the 7600x but was way better when it came to productivity, so it was overall a better cpu for not much more money and this showed when it was being recommended over the 7600x.
I'm afraid AMD will raise prices next gen like Nvidia did. There just is no competition anymore they have to fear. Let's hope Arrow Lake won't just be another disaster.
![Has The 5800X3D Aged Better Than The Rest of Zen 3? May Q&A [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ERgA-_OVG64/mqdefault.jpg)
Sorry there was a mix up with the editor, the original thumbnail and title that were up for a few minutes are for part 3. It's fixed now, sorry everyone
Oh thanks, I was wondering where that part about GPUs was!
Spoilers!
blunder of the CENTURY
Part 3 can't come soon enough!
Ok, But I can't wait for part 3 to come out!
Everything keeps going up except my paycheck.
AM4 then. This is why 5800x3d sells so well. I'm waiting for a game changer - like a built in 20 TOPS NPU in the CPU.
Depends on your use case, but a friend recently built an AM4 system (5600G + 32GB DDR4) for home office and some very basic gaming at 1080p (JRPGs, Steam back-catalogue etc). He'll maybe upgrade to a dedicated GPU if he ever actually needs it, but so far it does everything he wants
The rich looking tasty rn
Stagflation baby!
@@kurtwinter4422 You dont need NPU in the cpu on desktop with GPU
I went from an R5 2600 to a 5700x3D this month. Absolutely insane upgrade. Like it completely refreshed my system. If you're still on OLD (1000, 2000, 3000) AM4 definitely recommend upgrading within AM4.
Can you OC r7 5700x3d??
@@Lazarosaliths you can using PBO/Curve Optimizer!
@Lazarosaliths Yes and no. The voltage is locked, and you can only adjust PBO 2.0 on some motherboards meaning silicon lottery is even more of a factor. Still its a powerful CPU.
@@Lazarosaliths Voltage is locked to not damage the memory they glued on. Sometimes with some bios or specially modifed bios it is possible but it _will_ damage the cpu, for getting records only.
What kind OC are we talking about? With PBO 2.0 that is?
Petition to rename Ultra settings to Unoptimized settings
by your logic it should've been renamed to "Rich people only setting"
@@Eleganttf2 Wich would totally make sense really.
Some games that call the top setting "insane" or "epic" also make sense. A setting for when the game is old and even cheap cards can run it without breaking a sweat. I guess when that day comes for every game, a now-benign-sounding "ultra" will make sense.
Rich settingis better!
More like "you wish you could afford to run it this way" settings.
Ultra is/was the setting I want to use when I replay the game in 4-5 years after it came out initially.
Exactly
Based
I built my son a PC for Christmas. Wasn't quite 2024, but I went AM4 because I had a spare kit of DDR4 kicking around. 5600 + MSI Pro mATX board ran about 400 dollars CAD. Even with AM5 boards coming down in price, I wouldn't be able to put together an AM5 setup for that price.
In canada expect to pay 35 to 40% more than US. Allot of people seem to favoring am5 for new builders and i understand why but for budget builds a 5600 can take you up to 4070 ti/ 7900 xt
@@amzgamingx I threw in a 229 CAD 6600. Plenty for performance for Fall Guys and the various games he plays.
@@twiggsherman3641 bless ya as a father my man
@@twiggsherman3641 thats more than enough! you got a good deal man!
damn my dad has never even used a computer
To the point about legacy ports on motherboards. I used to work as an IT technician in a UK secondary school and many of the monitors the school had only had VGA ports. We're talking old monitors that the only reason they hadn't been thrown out was because they still worked. Finding the money to get replacements for equipment like this was also difficult.
23:07 I'm with Tim. "End of Life" ("EOL") in this context is more of a technical term, meaning roughly the stop date for the manufacturing of the product. Intel will usually release a "Product Change Notification" (PCN) with a number of milestones, one of which is the last date that you can put in an (non-cancelable, non-returnable) order. Once that date arrives, they can 'cook' the last batch and the product is tagged as EOL.
EoL to me, within the industry means no longer supported with updates for security or drivers and it becomes legacy hardware.
@@georgejones5019 There's not going to be one clear-cut satisfying answer, especially when considering all the different parts of a platform, and various companies and industries.
Some companies differentiate between EoL and EoS (End of Support), with EoS marking the end of software updates, tech-support, repairs, whatever depending on industry and company.
For my outline, I drew on Intel PCN 119439-00, which concerns the 400-series chipset. It's written as outlined, and has "End of Life" in the title.
Regardless, it's still up to the manufacturer to define the point of EoL and EoS.
In my experience, EOL most often means no longer made/actively developed on, meaning that it still receives security updates and bugfixes, but no new features. Eos (end of service) is when it stops receiving any kind of updates. But the specifics change depending on the company.
I genuinely think that for the people who live in the real world, Zen 3 is still a perfectly viable option. I know it might not be the most representative sample, but most players on Steam are still on Zen 2 and a GTX 1060 or an RTX 2060/2070.
I wish I had the money to get the best of the best but it's moving so fast... It's impossible to keep up unless you're ok with spending thousands of dollars/Euros/Pounds every 2/3 years.
So yeah, while it may not be the most "future proof" thing to do (we all know it's BS anyway), AM4 with something like a ZEN 3 CPU should be more than enough for most people for a "real world" usage.
PS: Still learning English so be kind to me :D
I think for a lot of places in the world, the prices went insane and never recovered. Such that there's nothing decent-value at a similar price we paid for a 1060 or 2060 we bought years ago.
The 4060 here is nowhere near the $300 msrp and even if it were, I'm not comfortable spending that amount knowing 8GB won't last me the next 3 to 4 years or beyond.
Even in the pretend world of high end gaming... CPU is not THAT important for gaming that you always need the latest, it matters more than it did during the 7th-8th console generation where Intel CPUs were stagnating and the games were limited by the trash laptop CPUs in those consoles, but still not that much. Even if you run a 4090, so long as you run it at the resolution it's designed for, it will still bottleneck a Zen 3 CPU in 90% of games, and the few exceptions you will still be getting a solid framerate.
AM4 is good if you're already on it or if you have carry over ddr4. If you don't, AM5 is a better deal.
Not that am4 isn't sufficient, but 200+150+100 for a 7600 system with an acceptable b650 and a "slow" 32 gb kit is better than a 120+150+100 for a 5600 with an acceptable b550 (yes the am4 mobo are priced at similar or higher prices than am5, fuck them) 32 gb of fast ddr4. There's a 80$ difference (20% more) to get 20% more performance AND to get on a new upgradeable platform.
If you need very budget, go intel i3.
Perfectly fine English buddy! :)
I wanted to upgrade my brother's PC to AM5 this Christmas, but it turned out the cheapest AM5 combo was twice as expensive as AM4 w/ an R5 3600. As much as AM5 would help with future upgrades and current performance, and taking into account the kind of games he's playing rn and that he's still running on a Polaris card, I deemed it not worth it.
Its always about the best performance for your budget.
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Overclocking
Intel MB partners: It's the same picture
Two things I think should be understood about the AM4 situation. The first is that there will likely always be a market for older Zen1/+ CPUs. There are people talking about just upgrading from 2000 series to a 5000. I'd imagine they wouldn't mind posting their old CPU up on Ebay that someone in some other region would be interested in because the latest are still way too expensive. The next is acknowledging that the fix for forward compatibility on boards with small ROMs was to remove features and older CPU support. That creates 2 very legitimate potential problems. Users upgrading their BIOS to support a new chip that disables the support for the old chip, which could leave them without a working computer if they update before having the new CPU in hand, or got a DOA or failure. The next issue is for people getting those CPUs 2nd hand, but not having boards available that haven't been updated.
I work at a computer repair shop and have had a lot of AM4 systems come in. One user needed us to update his BIOS because he literally tossed his old CPU in the trash before doing it himself. I have the wherewithal to know a BIOS update can leave a system inoperable if it removes support for the current CPU, but I know not everyone working in such a place is going to. It's not uncommon to consider a BIOS update as a resolution to any number of issues, and not everyone is going to read the notes. They are still releasing AM4 CPUs, and there needed to be room to address them in the ROM. It doesn't seem appropriate to suggest that the only motivation was that AMD was trying to pull a fast one.
With AM5, they've mandated larger ROMs and flashback support as standard. Those things clearly point to an intention of mitigating those drawbacks that existed with AM4.
About the PS/2 and VGA ports, the same is true for Serial and Parallel which are supported on some motherboards - as Steve says, it is about industrial companies. They test and certify that connector X configured in a certain way in an installation (or Docker image) is known to work for that one particular use-case, and then stick with that setup. The more things they change, the more money they have to spend going through the re-certification process. Banking and Railways are two industries where this is a big issue.
i am it in a company ..... half the monitors (about 800 computers ) if not more are still VGA when it comes to buisness and datacenters vga is still very widely used especially for tasks that do not need a fast pc and just need any pc !
True, I still see a lot of vga
VGA barely pushes the equivalent of a 1080p signal.
Text just looks comparativly awful through even a mid tier vga cable. Sucks to have to do office work on such a screen, esp since cheap vga monitors will have crappy panels to begin with.
@@adriankoch964cheap Sceptre 24" monitors (roughly $100) are fantastic office monitors. We have tons of them with vga cables. There is 0 difference in quality if they are using vga or HDMI.
@@adriankoch964 i do not disagree , but as far they are working i do not see the logistics department approving the expense so the workers have more crisp looking letters while they do the exact same job .
I work in a datacenter for one of the largest big tech companies. VGA is nonexistent on my site. I can count in one hand the systems that still use it and they r systems that have been on since the first day of opening the site 10 plus years later. These systems dont need high levels of visual quality or processing visual data. But, its definitely better to have a higher standard for general IT equipment. VGA is only used for small companies nowadays. Personally, i think its absurd to expect an IT guy to work on anything older than hdmi at this point. U want legacy equipment expertise, thatll cost u extra!
AMD knows that Zen6 has to be on AM5.
it doesnt matter ... its a company ... they always try to get away with shady stuff to make more profit. When companies are in a dominant position in the market they just focus on making more and more profit. Just look at nvidia or Intel when AMD was making garbage processors.
They will kill all their goodwill from AM4 if not
In terms of old I/O options I believe still having VGA makes a lot more sense than having PS2 ports because the likelyhood of an older monitor still functioning is bigger than an old keyboard and/or mouse doing so, specially considering some old devices were built with the mindset of actually lasting and if needed getting repaired rather than being tossed aside and replaced after a short time. I've had an old MAG XJ CRT monitor that was purchased around the time we had an old Athlon and a P3 and said monitor only called its quits about the time the first gen of Intel's Core series came around. In comparison I've had a much much newer Smart Tv that had to be replaced after far less usage.
That's incorrect about VGA & PS/2. The reason for VGA ports is because it still makes the screen react much quicker than DVI/DisplayPort or even HDMI, it has much lower input latency than all of them. That's why extreme overclocking boards still have them. Same reason why the PS/2 port is still on some extreme overclocking boards over USB because USB does not work the same way as PS/2 port & during an extreme overclocks the USB keyboards cannot react fast enough to enter bios. the PS/2 port works by using ultra-low level interrupts to the board. While the USB works on signal clock, for which with certain overclocking tunes can be completely ignored by the board.
I got a 5800x3d in March & I am beyond satisfied. For what I do it is fantastic. Im using a 3070TI & I'll probably upgrade to a new gpu next year. But I'm just so happy with my system right now it's not even on my mind.
Heres my case:
I have two PCs
1- R7 1700x + B350 + 32gb 3200 + RX550
I use it in my homestudio, to study music and record my own stuff.
Bought shortly after the release of 1700x. It is still running good things like Reaper and instrument plug-ins.
Second PC is R7 3700x +X570 + 32gb 3600 CL14 + 1080ti.
Used for gaming and basic office/editing stuff.
Second PC was upgraded today with 5900X!
It will be my studio PC.
I'll sell 1700x PC and 3700x processor.
I'll build a new AM5 7800x3d initially with 1080ti and asap RTX 5000 series.
Man...years of AM4 using! Excellent!!!
Thanks AMD!
The answer as to why some boards still have VGA and PS2 ports is simple: datacenter KVMs. Lots of datacenters use disposable commodity mobos and CPUs in open air racks using PXE boot for compute rather than spending 20-30x the price for purpose built systems with the same compute power but more enterprise features. Those datacenters tend to use old legacy KVM systems for management, and almost all of those systems use VGA and PS/2.
They run these mobos until something burns out, then a guy comes in, unplugs the power, network, PS/2 and VGA ports, slots in a new one, KVMs into it to get it configured, and tosses the old HW into a pile for disposal.
As Tim said, these companies are probably ordering mobos in lots of 1000+ a year, and the manufacturers are willing to make a special product that fits this use case because they sell 100x more product to this market share than all of the gaming market combined.
PS/2 port is good to have. I do IT support in a 100 seat institution. There is a windows bug that makes USB keyboard unresponsive on boot some times. Works in BIOS then dies when WIndows loads. You can observe this when numlock light goes down. Connecting PS/2 KB if there is a port solves the problem but otherwise you have to remote in and nuke USB root drivers. It's good to have a possibility to have KB connected to a port that actually interrupts the PC the hard way if needed. For me having at least one PS/2 port is a plus when shopping for motherboards.
Ive just bought a 5800x3d as ive been on am4 for years already. I'm getting close to 200 frames on all favourite games at 1440p so i cant see why i would need to go to AM5 anytime soon
Totally valid, but i think its more for people that want to buy a new system, cause the base r6 7600 is on par with the 5800x3d, and the 7800x3d is about 20% faster in 1080p. i wouldn't expect similar gains with zen5, but it is very compelling regardless for new systems for value.
With the uplifts they're talking about for Zen5 I'm considering it, especially as most of the things I run are CPU bound, my GPU is definitely underused. Thats with a 5800x3d in my box ( it is brilliant though, enjoy it! ). I did seriously do some numbers for the 7950x3d because I could do with the cores, but that was not worth it.
Although if they don't release win10 drivers then it'll be a pain, I'll have to actually start looking at VMs... I can also cascade old hardware into other uses so it's not like I'll lose all the value.
I'm hoping and praying I can leapfrog AM5
@@vlaricshard2 My rule of thumb has always been "dont' bother until you can double the performance", although sometimes that's "double the performance for specific things" like the multicore stuff I've been doing recently. I'm not sure Zen5 is going to be doubling 5xxx even with the uplift over Zen4 people are talking about...
Zen3 has honestly been one of the greatest cpu gens ever got 3 PCs on it ❤
14:39 "Shy are people still obsessed with Ultra settings?"
This is something that has irritated me for a long time. My guess it's somewhat connected with the consoles and the PC superiority claims.
Let me go a bit back in time. When MechWarrior 2 and MW2 Mercenaries were released there were originally no hardware 3D support, and when looking at VGA cards there weren't really much in the way of hardware support for 2D graphics. It all was done in software. Yet the games supported resolutions and options that made it run as a slide show if you maxed everything. This was as close to "Ultra settings" as you can get, but even the best hardware available at this time resulted in something like 1 - 3 FPS no matter how much money you were able to throw at it. A few years later there was a patch to Mercenaries that allowed it to run with 3DFx Voodo cards, and it was a real upgrade. Still max settings were a slideshow.
The idea of including these settings was not because they were usable, but because in a few years they might be usable, and I can't remember that people complained over the games being badly optimized or anything. Thing is we knew that the extreme setting were not usable now, but maybe in the future. Interstate 76 was the same. You tweaked the settings to suit your hardware, and no one could really tun the game at max settings of everything in any reasonable framerate. Yet there were not that much complaints about that. Now there was complaints over general stability and that was totally valid. With patches and faster hardware the game just got better with time as more and more of the high quality graphics options could be raised.
Then came the big console leap. I'm mostly talking about Playstation and XBox. The thing is you really didn't have much to say about the graphics and game settings. But it worked. This schooled generations of players that games were to just work, which was not really how PC games had behaved. Now that the users were console schooled expectations of new PC gamers changed. As everything is supposed to work max settings are expected to be usable. if they are called Max, Ultra or whatever doesn't matter. People enables it all and are disappointed when the game becomes a slide show. Now in some games this will work with a Halo GPU like the 4090, but not really with anything less. Then people still feel cheated when their 4070 or RC 7700 presents less than 60 FPS, or even worse less than 30 FPS.
This is irritating for me. Ultra settings are just that Ultra. They are not something you should expect to work at good performance with the hardware available as the game is released. Max settings is a bit harder to value. It could be just like Ultra, but it could also be something for the currently fastest hardware. It will still be there in a few years, and by then the hardware might just be able to use those settings and present a decent FPS.
Entry level is definitely AM4 for New Zealand - save up to $200 for a core kit compared to an AM5 core kit!
AMD has a fiduciary responsibility towards their shareholders to increase revenue. Like you guys said, bulldozer was awful, they pretty much lost their entire marketshare and had to provide great bang for the buck as they introduced Ryzen.
I had good ddr4 ram so I upgraded to b550 and a ryzen5600. I didn't have the budget for a newer platform. The b450 mobo and ryzen 2600 is still in use in the house too for the kids
I was buying a fairly expensive AM4 board for my sons build recently and was surprised to see a PS2 port on it. I switched that one to a Gigabyte board to NOT have a board with PS2 on it. Maybe I could have pulled out a ball mouse or old ass keyboard and made him use it.... ;)
5600x is such a beast of a cpu that I struggle to see any reason for most people to do a whole new build
Technically, if you are not counting the x3D variations, then AM4 lasted for only 4 years, 2016-2020 (which is still a lot but not as long as what people claim it to be). Zen 6 should still definitely be supported lol.
Ultra settings is definitely in the PC Master Race meme zone.
If you already on am4 and using like a 1000-3000 ryzen cpu with a decent motherboard. I think just upgrading to 5000 series you can get huge performance increase just swapping your CPU. I went from 3600 to 5800x3d. Huge gains and especially gaming performance is up there with the current gen. AM4 is magic
Agreed. About 18 months ago, I went from my 2700X to a 5950X. Incredible upgrade! That’s a lot of CPU for cheap when you consider you don’t need to rebuild, you don’t need to replace the motherboard, or the RAM.
Just went from b350 tomahawk/3600x to b550f rog/5800x3d myself, but I also am still rocking my 2080ti...
Take a thumbs up for being one of the few who actually state that AMD, same for Intel and Nvidia, is not only competing with their rivals but also are competing against themselves.
DirectStorage, the only area where it works is for a PC with low amount of system RAM, think 8GB of RAM. The point of it is to reduce the amount of space used in system RAM in holding graphical assets. The problem is that you are pulling the graphical assets from the hard drive directly to the GPU, in which the speed will be limited to the hard drive's bus, be it a PCIe SSD drive or SATA. Meanwhile, there is system RAM that communicates with the GPU at full speed. So if the game offers time to preload a level's asset library into system RAM and the space in system RAM is available, you will get no benefit from DirectStorage.
AM4/AM5 Socket life time, the reason for AMD to move to the inevitable AM6 socket is when the pin layout for AM5 can't support the I/O that AMD wants to include into that new generation of Zen CPU. AM5 socket was necessary for DDR5 and PCIe 5 support. The primary reason for AM6 socket is support for DDR6. How soon do we expect DDR6 to hit the desktop market? The other reason for an AM6 socket is a need for more PCIe lanes or if PCIe 6 would require a change in pinouts.
+@LBXZero It's pretty much common knowledge that a company that sells upgrades to previous products is competing with their own products when the new editions are released.
@@mediamanM Not really. For the time period of AMD products barely competing against Intel, basically before Zen 3, many claim that Intel was resting on its laurels for several generations, despite Intel needed to give previous Intel CPU owners a reason to upgrade to the latest platform.
That's not what DirectStorage does. In case you were living under a rock since the advent of PCIe SSDs, the way that the Windows filesystem talks to them doesn't actually allow you to make use of the speed - in actual use at the OS level, a PCIe 5.0 SSD is barely faster than a SATA SSD despite potentially tens or hundreds of times faster. Even copying between PCIe SSDs drops to being only a few times faster than SATA once the cache on either end runs out, if that.
DirectStorage allows a game to bypass the standard filesystem limitations and use a different API to get the data off at speeds closer to the native speed of the SSD. This allows the OS to deliver the files that the game is asking for nearly instantly, even bypassing the need to put them in the GPU framebuffer for texture files - the game can call the textures directly from disk rather than moving them into VRAM. This tech was first used on the XBox Series S/X and a similar tech is used by the PS5, and is why they can run textures that would normally not be possible on a system with such limited amounts of shared memory, and why the PS5 has special requirements for the SSDs you can use to upgrade it (not that the drives have to be super fast to be able to do this, the XBox drives are PCIE Gen 3 x2).
Right now, you can see the benefits of this tech in pretty much ONE game - Horizon Forbidden West. The game loads in 2-3 seconds on my system, and there is never a single instance of texture pop or other loading artifacts that we have been seeing for years. It's pretty glorious, to be honest. I hope other devs get their acts together and start using it sooner rather than later.
@@jaturnley Not how it works, dude. Which hard drive are you installing your games on? The C: drive?
@@LBXZero I have a dedicated 4tb PCIe gen 4 NVME drive. What difference would that even make? An NVME drive isn't affected much by simultaneous access. Where are you putting yours at, an IDE drive? Because that was the last standard for storage that was slowed down in any meaningful way by having multiple applications accessing them at once. Once SATA came out and had NCQ support, even mechanical drives are smart enough to use their on board cache to mitigate that.
Been rocking my 5950x rig since 2021. I plan on skipping am5 altogether and will upgrade when am6 hits. The only upgrade i did was a 3070 to 7900xt. With decent curve + pbo settings my rig will last me regardless. I personally wouldn't build an am4 rig at this point either but those who are stuck on it I think our systems are still sufficient
I got a 5900x and I can't decide if I made a wise decision sticking with am4 or not (it was a new build, not an upgrade). I did get the cpu at like 51% off, though.
The main problem with features like Direct Storage is basically same thing we could observe with memory expansion cards for systems back in times of Comodore 64, they would make card or cartridge that would expend memory or maybe even add functionality. But games would very rarely use it because all games would get made for baseline system that 100% of system owners have. So you would get few odd games that would adapt it. Because they don't want to sell to subset of subset of customers. Like 10-30% that might have had that expansion card. They want to sell to everyone. Same is with Direct Storage. They don't want to make game that needs it and immediately alienate SATA SSD users, HDD users, slow old NVMe users,...they want to sell to as many users as possible. So they will either not bother at all or make implementation that makes it very optional. I mean look at the gamescape now, sure we got games that require SSD and don't work well off HDD. But how many of them require anything beyond SATA SSD? Maybe Rachet & Clank, but I am not even sure for that one. Sure raytracing was accepted, but i can imagine nVidia was investing fortune into accelerating that and even that is just at stage of nice to have but optional. If nVidia didn't bother and just made it available, probably half of the games we got wouldn't use it. Sure all of that will get required eventually, but only when developers are sure that most customers will be able to play their game even if they require it. And good portion of rest would have too old hardware to play it anyway. In the end game development is business, it is sales driven. It isn't most technically demanding driven. Hence why Crysis is more one of a kind than regular stuff. Would love to see more of it, but it would require someone who would say they don't need to earn much.
I have used Direct Storage in Miles Morales and R&C Rift Apart and it was amazing! definitely not overhyped can’t wait till it gets adapted in more games in the future
I was on AM4 and my wife and I planned to keep it going, build a new one later, then sell the old one. Then my DeepCool AIO, guaranteed not to leak, leaked and took out my video, AIO, and Mobo. Since they refused to back up their guarantee we are now building an AM5 system.
16:22 The game _Tomb Raider: Legend,_ from 2006, had what I think is the correct answer to that question, at least in terms of naming. There was an option called Next Generation Content, which used completely different rendering. It wasn't completely stable, and it's debatable whether it really looked better, but the concept is sound - call settings that aren't supposed to work with contemporaneous graphics cards "Next Generation", and it's clear that this is something that should only be used in the future when hardware has become notably faster.
I got an AM4 motherboard last week (the MSI B550-A Pro) because the one i got in 2018 (MSI B350M Gaming Pro) wasn't being supported anymore. It's the last AM4 thing I will be buying, period. It's very solid. I'd already upgraded to the 5800X3D and RX 7900XT by that point. That system saw 2 new CPUs and 2 new GPUs since I bought it (3700X from 1700X and 3060Ti from GTX 1080 before the current spec).
For all the trouble I had with AM4(7700x and 7900X3D), I held on to a 5950x/6900xth build.
I still use my older DasKeyboard, it has 2 USB 2.0 cables coming out of it, if you want N-key roll over you have to use the PS/2 adapter.
We use KVMs that still have PS2 and VGA connections for our shared computers housed in server rooms at uni. Students remote into them using RDP or SSH but for us having re-use of 50 to 100 KVMs reduces costs when needing to stand in front of the machines.
To the person who asked if products would be "bargain priced" for upcoming AMD CPUs - get real. That's not how companies generate profits and stay in business. If you're looking for a bargain, buy previous generation or used.
you're right. Zen4 prices will come down when Zen5 releases and I guarantee there will be people selling their 7600s when the 9800X3D comes out.
however I think AMD will release an entry level CPU for AM5, but it might be an APU.
They are the same people who won't shut up about the 1080ti being 699 and how anything else is a rip off.
@ChristmasCrustacean1 apus should really just take over the entry level market. Honestly I think apus are eventually coming to the high end as well. You gain quite a lot by having everything so close and unified. Once we can't go any smaller with transistors we will just increase die sizes and 3dstack. Eventually you have to make everything unified to get more performance
31:51 I've been getting insulted for free this whole time
They better not be releasing cards under 11 GBs. Nobody in their right mind is buying an 8 GB card anymore.
It's called budget cards and plenty of people still buy them
Nvidia could release the entire 50XX series as 8GB - yes including the 5080 and 5090 - and they'd still sell like crazy and dominate the market. Most consumers don't know jack.
Broke people are
anything can be good at the right price
@@drago939393 That's dumb take. People who buy 5080/5090 play at 4k. You wont have good experience with 8 GB in no way. That would be a downgrade even from 4070.
23:35 Not "to" 2025. It was "through" 2025. It's a very important difference. It means supported to the end of 2025 at a minimum, with the "plus" indicating likely support beyond the end of 2025.
I've just upgraded from a 4790k with 32Gb ddr3 2400mhz to a simple AMD 7600 with 32Gb 6000mhz and the jump uas been insane. I only opted for a 7600 as im waiting for the next gen to drop, cant wait
Zen 4's low sales is due purely to LGA socket and high AM5 motherboard prices because of said LGA socket. I still haven't sold a single one to a customer who still want AM4 CPU's and motherboards.
Regarding legacy ports like VGA, you can always buy an adaptor, like DP to VGA.
But in terms of parrallel ports, often in the 90s or early 2000, there were fabrication systems or other industrial machinering (think a metal plate cutting machine, that was designed to run on these ports at the time. And they machines still run, and perform well, so they need older ports to make them work when the computer driving it from the 90s finaly dies.
On Zen6 AM5 support a compromise could be some high end CPUs using a derived socket perhaps branded Thread Ripper, supporting more PCIE & memory channels. If Zen5 is launched and they don't confirm Zen6 on the socket, then that's the time to suspect the plan hit snags.
Back when AM4 was newer I decided to go with the 9700KF on Z390 not because it was that much better, it wasn't a crazy amount more and I felt I could trust it to be reliable; I didn't see Ryzen becoming what it has.
Now I kick myself because I'd have upgraded to a 5800X3D... However, there was no way of knowing it'd be as successful as it was. The longevity of AM4 is amazing and woulda worked great for me. Especially with X3D being amazing in Star Citizen.
I dont really care tho cause there's no changing the past. I will however be upgrading sometime around black friday and I hope I can, make a better choice, get a nice and fresh AM5 X770(if it's called that) that has USB/Thunderbolt 4 out the wazoo, definite PCIE 5 support, and slap a 7800X3D on a black friday sale in, cause Zen5 should be out. Thats my hope at least. Then I'll upgrade my 6900XT in like five more years or something 😅. Get a 6090 or something lol
And don't forget taking inflation into consideration when you talk about prices. AMD Ryzen prices currently aren't too bad taking that into account.
I've just build a PC with a Ryzen 5 7600, 32GB DDR5-6000-CL30 and a RX 6800 on a B650M motherboard. It runs great! A lot of bang for buck!
Depends how much you understand inflation to be corporate greed. At least half of the price increases you've seen, sometimes more, is just more profit forever bs.
@@joeykeilholz925 a lot of raw materials that go into a CPU have risen a lot in price in the past couple of years. And thats just one of the things that influence price
@@joeykeilholz925 back when Intel still was top dog they where a lot more expensive.
@KaffeeKitteh what do you expect? It is a huge corporation, not a non profit organisation. Not even taking R&D costs in this field in consideration...
@KaffeeKitteh I'm not a fanboy and not defending anyone. It's just how corporations work. Why are you so upset? Did those corporations hurt your feelings? At least
AMD still gives you nice cheap options on AM4
I was one of those early adopters of AM5, and because I was chasing high end Audio, I ended up paying over $800 (Australian Dollars) for ROG Strix X670E-F Mother Board. Of course, less than 6 months later, they announce the X3D CPU's, after I'd purchased the Ryzen 7 7700X......wish I'd known that was coming..... So I'd really be pissed if they went to AM6 with literally only 1 upgrade since I purchased my upgrade in November of 2022.
I just upgraded 7700k to R5 5600 with A520 mobo for less than $200 and I am impressed by the improvement in gaming and multitask.
I don't have too much to say. I've been using a different mechanical 60% keyboard atm. I like how I have much more desk space now and every key sounds glorious with that RGB special effects.
I am glad these new chips and motherboards exist for the people who need them . Engineers, Graphics Artist and the Medical system. For the layman though that use just video streaming and general use. I would not recommend an upgrade. We spend too much money on the newest and greatest stuff. My system is an AMD 3 motherboard, with a FX 6100 chip. Nvidia 1030 Card Over 10 years old. Never had a problem . The secret is to re thermal paste the cooler and every 6 months clean the case and fans.. Just my take on the state of computing
The only thing I will add to the overclock conversation is that Radeon GPUs would be an exception to the rule. They still love a good UV/OC and you can gain some serious performance depending on the GPU. Definitely worth a shot with Radeon 6000 and 7000 cards.
You can make some of this case about intel now regarding value. I bought the 13900kf for 500 when 7950 was 750 and i used old ram. It has issues though right with the heat. Not sure there really is a free lunch. The biggest thing for me back when amd was the underdog was the cores they added. With intel we were stuck at 4. That was a big deal. Intel kind of has done that now, practically they are evenly matched that's good for competition; You have one wanting market share the other wants to keep it. Will amd raise prices probably yes. But take note it's very competitive. I don't think personally it will last. They are over estimating the issue with intel in that case. You may lose 5% with intel maybe, and energy just doesn't matter that much it does matter it's just not the only thing to consider. Some but not that much. Not 100 dollars maybe 40 dollars. Intel is very competitive, and the differences between the cpus it's nothing like with amd and nvidia. Nvidia really can do things amd cannot. I'm not saying amd is bad but they are different products. You may not all want those things and that's ok, but that is how this competition factors into this. Just look at the prices to explain it. It's usually very logical. I guess that's what you are saying though. I'm personally happy with my intel cpu even now just because of the price. I do a productivity/gaming build. If the prices were identical i'd have gone with amd because of the energy and some of the potential software issues with big little (being newer). It's not worth much though. Not when the performance is basically the same for most use cases.
Always a pleasure watching you too discuss current topics. If you get sec, 2 boards I'm interested in as get so many questions over them on local forum are the B650 Eagle AX as the vrm seem better than the more expensive B650 Gaming AX and also the asus tuf a620 gaming wifi, as on paper, it seems to be much more compelling than other a620 boards as has a 12+2 50a vrm setup which seems a lot more than the a620 board you tested earlier in the year..also 2.5gb lan. I don't see any reviews for either of these boards so shedding some light would be great. I'm hesitant to recommend an a620 board for gaming, esp on back of that asus prime a620 you looked at awhile back
The problem with tweaking graphics settings is that many devs don't show you a visual preview of each setting. So some people just resort to 'ultra', particularly if they feel that their PC can brute force through it, as it takes a bit of time to optimise settings.
Also, something labelled 'medium' or 'low' quality doesn't mean anything to me. It's arbitrary.
I'm on 5950X, and I'm extremely satisfied. But definately will buy 9950X on premiere.
damn, we back to boring "will pricing be back to lower prices" questions
What's better for content creation/production work? an X3D? or a non-X3d?
The cheap MOBOs are usually revamped from OEM designs, they just keep the same functions with a different paint for the off the shelf market
I hope a lot of locals with new computers and having VGA ports is great because a lot of them don't need to upgrade their monitor for what they do.
That 7800x3d is just best VFM no matter what they release for gaming
Concerning Zen 6 on AM5 - They could always release Zen6 on both AM5 and AM6 thereby keeping everyone happy (it should be quite easy to disable extra memory channels that Zen 6 might have that AM5 socket hasn't got) !
I would imagine that would make things worse as people would question why they couldnt just stay on am5 at that point if they share the same socket.
I use a VGA output on one of these boards for playing old games ion a CRT monitor. Sometimes i use steam remote play to play modern ones. So it has it's niche use.
I work in industrial electronics engineering and there are still some VGA systems, but they are normally purpose built systems and not consumer mainboards.
Overclocking wise I do like core sync and to take the turbo time limits off. This tends to be stable and lets you get those maximum rated speeds a lot more often.
Hey guys
Listen. I love platform longevity. I think even as a dominate player now. Amd cpu price wise has been reasonable. Fortunately I do live near a micro center so am5 to me was very reasonable priced due to free ram etc.
Now platform longevity. Like you guys said. They don’t wanna box themselves in.
If they could offer a crazy ipc performance increase but different platfrom. Would the consumer want themselves to be boxed in ? I wouldn’t. I would understand it at that point.
Disappointing. Yes. Understandable. Yes.
End of the day they are a company and we do want them to bring the most performant products to market.
Direct Storage is overhyped on account on SSD speeds being ridiculously overhyped for what normal use is concerned. As we saw with RTX IO Portal, the tech is awesome for SATA SSDs. Ironically, Direct Storage hypers would buy their fast SSD, get a heat sink, for the games loadings, then wait for Direct Storage to do its magic (it doesn't) and of course all this while having run out of storage space because they should've gotten a larger mid performance SSD, and buy the fast one later on if need be.
AM4 will be the go-to platform for budget builds for years to come. They sold a gazillion of them, CPUs range from 4 to 16 cores, decent performance all-around, with extremely broad compatibility and flexibility in build options. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3600 and 5600 become the new "forever CPUs" like the 2500k and 2600k used to be.
i grabbed a ryzen 5 3600 for 80 euros new.
don't think i could get a better deal if i wanted to(for my existing am4 platform).
I went from a 1700X to a 5900X. I use my computer daily, and see no need to upgrade right now. The system is lightning fast.
I doubt they'll last as long since gen-over-gen improvements are much higher now than they were back then. Those cpu's lasted forever because the newer stuff that came after them wasn't really much better. Nowadays the newer stuff is notably better than what came before it. Zen 3 over zen 2 is a decent upgrade, and again for zen 4 over zen 3, with zen 5 again looking like another good upgrade if leaks are any indication (no not the bs 40% stuff, but even the more reasonable leaks say 15%).
RTX 5060 8Gb vram and 48bit Memory bus.
Also, cloud based DLSS 3.3.
you meant 6GB and later 3GB variant refresh
5060 4GB.
@@ed1659No ,the refresh will be 1.5GB
48bit lmao so 1 and a 1/2 memory channels? Lmao yeah that'll be a great buy
I went AM5 because I got a steal on a refurb mobo and 7800x3d. If I had to pay full price, hell no. AM4 with a 5700x3d is unbeatable for the coming years.
I work in the games industry here in Malaysia and I recently visited one of the bigger indie studios here.
Their monitor had just died and when I looked at it it was probably a 1024x768 monitor with a VGA connector😂
So no, not just random business companies.
Got a 5800x3d used for $150 and it runs perfectly. He said it was only a few days old which is strange.
Nice grab!
Good grab mate, I got a used 5800x3d for $200 coming today, we'll see how will it performs.
DirectStorage could be pretty great, but on PC it was way late, and GPUs are still missing a dedicated decompression block for it, so using GPU decompression is just a hit to GPU performance while saving CPU performance, and most people are GPU limited rather than CPU limited.
This, basically.
DirectStorage is just less useful on PCs than its equivalent is on consoles. But that's OK, not every technology has to be revolutionary, widely adopted, useful in every single case and of universal benefit. There will be situations where it shines, there will be other situations where it's useless. So what.
14:38 nice thing about "Ultra" settings in 2024, so many games from past years hold up hella well and... don't require 4090 to run ultra ^_^
Honestly, there's some beauty positives in gaming these days, though I get it, easy to miss amongst the bile in PC / gaming as a consumer heh
~a random canadian subscriber dude
The backwards compatibility of ports has everything to do with industrial machines.
Often times a computer will need to be replaced to keep a machine running but it uses some old connection standard.
You’re not going to replace a machine worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars just to get a more up to date connector type.
Lemme know if I'm getting anything mixed up, but when Sony showed off direct storage on the PS5 with Ratchet and Clank, hopping through different worlds without loading, it genuinely looked impressive. Like truly next generation. I haven't played the game, but I was surprised to see it release on Steam with just "SSD required", not "NVME gen X over X speed.
Is the game different than what they showed, running poor on PC, a lesser port, or was it just never really that impressive? Maybe I'm remembering the whole thing wrong, or I'm getting the tech confused?
Ultra is good for playing years later and it’ll look halfway decent and perform well on new hardware. Helps the game not look as bad years later.
I think Directstorage still hasn't become an important feature because most game devs aren't yet interested in doing all of the extra work to take advantage of it, especially because many users are still only using a sata SSD, AND, most games can already offer a very good user experience, with relatively short load times, even from a sata 3 SSD.
So many games just aren't going to actually offer a significantly better user experience by taking full advantage of directstorage and the full speed of a good gen 3 SSD.
That being said, open world games, and games where the player will be likely to rapidly travel between different areas, could benefit a lot from being optimized to take advantage of direct-storage and NVMe SSD speeds. Just optimizing for gen 3 SSD speeds could allow for some amazing load-time improvements, and could also allow for real time streaming of assets within an open world that is far superior to what can be done with a sata SSD. Of course, the performance of the CPU is also a key factor in this as well.
I actually don't overclock most of the time. I just undervolt my PC most of the time. Because it feels more worth it to save the Watt than to use even more Watt and getting more performance
lol I got to the end of the video and thought I might as well play some Quake Champions
The leak Adored put out wasn't technically BS , the CPU's did end up coming out Jim only got the prices wrong
It's all a interesting discussion. Have a almost 5 years old, Asus B550 F Gaming. AM4 will work for more 4-5 years
AM4 is still far from done. It will be a very capable platform for quite some time. What gets people confused and divided is the extremely good adoption that AM5 had. And what helped that adoption A LOT was the way that DDR5 was introduced on the market. Yes it was more expensive than DDR4, but initially the minimum amount you could get was 32GB if you wanted dual channel. There were no 2x8GB kits. So people took notice "yes i pay more, but i also get twice the amount and it's newer, thus futureproof". This also pushed the entire DDR4 market to shift to 32GB where just before that it was considered that 16GB was more than enough. All of a sudden the price jump to AM5 didn't look all the scary and pointlessly expensive. Of course it helped a lot that the 7800X3D took the gaming crown from the 5800X3D with noticeable performance. It all looked justified on the contrast that the previous few years have been with hardware pricing.
I bought a 5000 series last month. I returned it and deiced AM5 is the way to go
P/S2 is still > USB for keyboards. It's an interrupt protocol vs USB polling.
It also requires no drivers to work. But not hot swappable 😢
1. AM4, for the entry level gaming market, is still viable due to the existence of the X3D chips (5600, 5700, & 5800) for an upgrade in two years as a "last life" for the computer that, overall, is only expected to last 3-4 years. Build an AM4 based system, end up having to spend "way too much" (for the entry level computer gamer) on a mid-market GPU, and then in a couple of years do a final upgrade of CPU and GPU. Further, this links with the AM5 and Zen4 -> Zen5. As you stated, AM5 costs too much... and still does... for many people. Further, it is still "new tech", and as the saying goes "don't buy the brand new, untested, model". When Zen5 is released, likely with a new system board chipset (that will also take a bit of ironing out for stability), the platform will likely be mature enough. This process happens over the next 1.5 years. But, for the person that needs a system now... AM4 is still there. (Unlike Intel, who... everyone knows... changes the entire platform every 2-3 CPU generations and, thusly, provides no upgrade potential.)
2. This is why I'd argue that, yes, the Ryzen 5 1600 did lag compared to the Intel CPUs of the era, but... it also has been much, MUCH, more long lasting due to the extra cores available. (The unliked in the industry "future proofing".) I still have customers, for whom I built Ryzen 5 1600 machines a year or so after the initial release, that play games on these systems. Some have upgraded to Zen2 era CPUs, some have upgraded to Zen3, and two were lucky enough to be able to go to X3D chips. But, before this even occurred... all of them were still working well in the modern era of software (including games) needing extra processing cores (through multiple applications being open at once, multiple tabs open in browsers, etc.). (The 4 core, no hyperthreading... or faintly better 8 core with hyperthreading, era being over. Six core, 12 thread is the new baseline.) This, of course, is a generational issue for AMD sales of the new AM5 platform, too, though. We aren't at a stepping stone like this, yet, where 8 core, 16 thread is a new baseline... or likely will be... in the next few years. The new fight is in high speed memory access (L2 and L3 cache, on die) & capacities along with, moderately, higher clock speeds. (Consumer software hasn't caught up with consumer CPUs yet in multi-threaded applications.)
3. Which leads to why new boards still offer VGA and PS/2... as you stated, it isn't for general consumers (who all use HDMI and USB). Businesses, in particular industrial ones, still need (now) super-entry machines to operate their (high priced when purchased decades ago, would cost VERY HIGH PRICES to upgrade now) equipment which needs legacy ports. (At my particular employer, they still operate computers, attached to machines, that require VGA, PS/2, and ... preferably... SERIAL & PARALLEL ports with file transfer from computer to computer with full sized COMPACT FLASH cards.) VGA will be around for another 10-15 years, minimum, due to its ubiquity. USB is not, always, supported.
I personally love being able to select "ULTRA," settings in a game. It's not even because it sounds cool. I just want to have the absolute best graphical experience I can possibly have. If I wanted the best bang for my buck, I'd go grab a console. I was a kid when games like Dark Forces were around and it's so fun to see what the best of modern hardware can accomplish.
What I don't understand are why people are so obsessed with playing games at 4K with Raytracing and HDR. It just doesn't make sense to me. Ok, so now your game looks stunning but it's running at 60 FPS or even lower in many cases. Why would I want to play a game like Alan Wake 2 at 40 FPS. In my mind, that's just stupid.
To be honest, glad open box ROG Ally is
We all guessing
5060 is 4060ti but 8GB and cost $400
Judging how 4060 between 3060 and 3060ti.
The leaks suggest that Nvidia isn't serious about their midrange cards and is planning on marketing them as "efficient" meaning mofos are probably going to label the 5060 as a 5060ti and the 5060ti as 5070. And somehow people will praise them for increasing their efficiency and decreasing their die size lol. And as a guy who's been following leakers for the past 5 or so years I can say that they've been mostly right.
You mean 5060 4GB
@@Lynnfield3440 You mean 5060 2GB 32bit
@@nipa5961 no sorry I actually mean the 5060 1GB 16bit.
@@Lynnfield3440 I think you meant 5060 512mb 8bit
OK. So AM4 support is a mixed bag. Yes, largely it was AMD BS - not supporting X370 and B350 boards and supporting 400 series boards later. With 400 series it was small delay, with 300 series it was much harder to bring compatibility to so many boards. They certainly could have brought support for some 300 series mobo's for Zen 3 faster (which would be better IMO). For such wide range though? Some early X370 and B350 mobo's were atrocious. In that case that small part of culpability goes to Motherboard manufacturers - there are some 300 series boards that don't support Zen 3. And when you do install the BIOS that accepts newer parts, you might lock yourself out of using older parts (unlikely, thankfully AMD chose parts they removed carefully, but still it wasn't completely 100% BS - just mostly BS and with effort they managed to "change their mind" - ugh).
My Brother has no problems with a B350 + 5700x combo. It even runs 3200mt DDR4 flawlessly out of the box, which was not possible with the first Ryzen CPU's on that board. No BS, I'm impressed!
I have a Asus X370 board with a 5900X in it. It's dope.
@@Peter.H.A.Petersen Indeed.
@@tank2402 Good for you. There are few specific boards that don't work wit Zen 3 and few others hat work.... badly. But rest works great.
We are all your friends. Now we know where we stand... Thanks he he.
Entry level price is around 120€ in EU, we use to find 40€ motherboard back in 2010 for that range. Prices keep climbing all the time. Same goes for SSD. 120€ 2Tb SSD is now 210€ within like 4 month. We all gonna get scamed if we keep buying thoses products.
I expect we'll find out the answer to Zen 6 on AM5 at the AMD Keynote on June 2nd (NA time), so only 5 weeks away! .. and who knows, maybe a 5090 announce from Jensen that same day too, since he does have a "keynote".
Even with Zen 6 not supported on AM 5 we won’t have another option when you’re thinking of Intel fiasco, no matter how good Intel will be you will risk it a lot by not knowing if it is viable after 4-6 months of running. And this is a problem since it makes AMD more chill about promises.
The Intel fiasco is irrelevent to the issue of AMD being misleading and Zen 6 not being supported ok AM5. People who bought Zen 4 with a main reason for it being that they were hoping in a few years they could buy zen 6 and plug and play would still be extremely disappointed and feeling misled regardless of whats going on with Intel. This is something ive seen coming for a while with knowing how long it took to go from Zen 3 to Zen 4, and now with how long its tekken them to launch Zen 4 X3D and Zen 5 taking forever to come out. Theyve only stated 2025 for a reason the plus shouldnt be taken into serious consideration until theres a reason for it. Zen 5 wont be out till later this year lolely, and by the time Zen 5X3D comes out, Zen 6 wouldnt be slated to come out till 2026 atleast. At which point you might get some shitty 9600G or 9600X3D or something long after the 9700X3D in 2026. AMD will say they gave you 4 different CPU gens on AM5 and AM6 is gonna be on AM6 because they needed a new socket for what they wanted to do(which might be right, like moving to big little core design). Personally in that scenario i think that would be the right move on paper, but they shot themselves in the foot by not being more transparent and forward from the start even if they were unsure, just because they wanted to gain some platform longevity sales they werent sure they could even deliver on. Likewise knowing AMD fanboy tribalism, they would likely be forgiven fast as hell and people would make the argument X3D counts due to performance upgrades from non vcache to vcache being significant. That said at this point they should ONLY be launching vcache chips.
Instead of “low, medium, high, ultra” they should label settings “performance, balanced, quality, experimental “
I Undervolt, and if possible overclock while undervolted, but undervolt>overclock
Always has been.
18:40 PS/2 is actually good for gaming keyboards, because it has inherent NKRO capability. It takes various tricks to make it work with USB keyboards.
It is true, however, that finding good ones these days is difficult. Not that they don't exist, though.
Zen4 had lower MSRPs than Zen3, I think people tend to forget this. AMD did do a (minor) course-correction on their prices for that launch.
The 7600x launch msrp was $300 the same as the 5600x, the price of the 7600x was lowered shortly after intels 13600k release for $320. This was likely done because intels cpu offered similar gaming performance to the 7600x but was way better when it came to productivity, so it was overall a better cpu for not much more money and this showed when it was being recommended over the 7600x.
I'm afraid AMD will raise prices next gen like Nvidia did. There just is no competition anymore they have to fear.
Let's hope Arrow Lake won't just be another disaster.
@@nipa5961 they have in the past with zen 3 going from $200 to $300