give us a tiny bit of batching blizzard gosh-darn-it it's more entertaining for everyone playing or watching! + sorry the last fight has credits because it's at the end of this video haha ruclips.net/video/fLkZuz7kjyU/видео.html
We need to get this upvoted on the classic wow subreddit and on the forums. While i dont think bliz is capable of creating anything good on the back of their own talent these days I do think they occasionally listen to good community feedback in classic. There's levels to this shit, but with 10ms batching theres far fewer levels ;_;
haha they went from like half a sec batching to 10ms XD? why not 50-100, which would actually be fun? I remember eating rogue shit in classic because batching window was absurd, but 10ms? lol
Opening first means he had faster reflexes = better Blinding the LAP also means he had faster reflexes and better read = better. These are facts, everything else is just a cope.
@@fmls8266 lol did you even watch the video or listen to anything that was said? They both killed each other. And the player that gets the opener wins, that was the whole point.
It's about latency... The player with better latency can respond "faster" Also.. just the fact that he opened with cheap shot instead of sap is a mistake. Let's make the case we both have same latency... You are spamming your stealth+cheap shot macro and I'm doing the same but with my sap macro. So we both hit each other. All fair . Latency was the same. Skill came in the equation the moment you choose your action (opener). So now I'm cheap shoted and you are saped. When cheap shot wears off... And I'm able to do anything, you will be still saped. Now you lose. It's not my opinion vs yours. It's only facts.
Fanboys arguing who of their favorite streamers is the best rogue, both rogues are almost equally skilled but in their own way. It’s mind blowing to me that people actually care and argue about who of the two is better or vice versa.
Good video, i think many people have a hard time seeing the argument for batching without having examples put infront of them of why it can be good. Someone hearing what batching is for the first time would probably 99% of the time give the immediate response of "this is clearly bad", but theres more nuance to it than that and this is provides great examples of why
YES YES YES. 100ms batching will remove the more frustrating problems with batching that can occur and still allow for opportunities to anticipate and outplay thru mind games and anticipation.
@@369th0 Didnt they reduce it to 200ms back in original tbc or wrath, from 400ms in vanilla? I thought it was really really good in original wrath at least.
Absolutely. Back in original wrath, all I did all day was 1v1 rogue vs rogue (along with arenas) so I got very very used to exploiting the batching window to create insanely fun and tactical duels. When they were talking about removing it back in classic I felt like I was almost alone in wanting to keep it. I guess its normal since it only really make thing more fun for rogues, but still. To me batching was an essential part of the toolkit of rogues and I really miss those times.
I'm straight up a fan of keeping it at 200, I think even 100 is unnecessarily small. It allows good gamesense to shine without necessarily cracked reactions, but that is why I play private servers.
Spot on there perp! It does feel great having such smooth gameplay with next to no batching but there was just something really unique with spell batching. I advocated for spell batching since classics announcement back in 2017 and didn't like it when it was changed. I certainly prefer a larger batch window and about 100ms or so would be great! 150 to 200 maybe even better. It also makes the viewing so much more entertaining! Keep it up mate. #teamrogue
let me guess you play rogue and now you can't batch every pyro coil aimed shot or whatever animation with your 50 years old reaction time ? how sad quickly buff rogue again !!!!
they also need to fix sap putting you in combat in bgs and pets following you in stealth and combat bugging ( probably a few others i'm forgetting ). I doubt we'll see change though w/o a lot of noise. I can't imagine the average player caring about the current batching, so i'm not particularly hopeful.
Totally agreed that a wider batch window makes for more emergent game properties then a smaller. And basically the emergent properties are what makes classic fun, any expansion on it should make for more options, more random cool finds, not via design but by emergent gameplay.
i mean it looks cool on paper but for ppl that play from faraway from the servers location we get like 150 - 200 ms and with that mechanic yea it feels so hopeless and 0 skill when u fight another guy with 7ms , also i feel like it promotes scripting even more. (Ex AT player here)
having 100-150 ms spellbatching would make it easier for people with lag! because spells are batched into windows, and aren't ping based (like they are now, with 10 ms batching).
I was pretty sure that someone with an inflated ego would try somewhat to justify the fact he got rekt. What was your excuse when the pally with a skirt demolished your rank 14 batching rogue on CDL?
Unfortunately, the bulk of wow players are not hardcore pvpers so changes like this benefit the majority of the population (smoother gameplay) and hamper a small elite (very skilled pvpers). I see the argument for having a larger batch window, but I doubt Blizzard would tune it in a way to benefit a tiny fraction of the player base. I assume that back in the day this mechanic was tuned to cater for the average players latency being much larger than today. Since modern day internet connections are generally much lower latency, it makes sense to remove / reduce the batch window. The side effect of being able to vanish blinds, can be thought of as "clever use of game mechanics" rather than a feature of the game which needs to be introduced back, however sad that might be.
Playing era without batching in 2024 feels very defeating. I vanished a cheap shot the other night in AV and it honestly made me want to quit on the spot when I realized how much I missed it.
It's astonishing how you come up with new ways of pushing a two-decade old decaying game forward, whether by the off the chart game style or this novel explanation
The thing that stood out to me with classic release was that you could jump into a mob unstealthed and aggro it then press stealth and get a cheap shot off before it hit you so you could get cheapshot off without slow stealth walking speed, and do it very reliably. Thats how i remember leveling up in 2006 too. I was kind of sad batching got reduced because of that and the way it changed PvP made me want to play another class entirely to be honest.
aside from leeway i think mine and a lot of player's most common complaint throughout 2019 classic was that the batch window was way too high, and blizzard must have taken that as a sign from the playerbase that we hated spell batching altogether probably worth asking here since i had a bit of a hunch that the massive server lag during really big world pvp battles may have had something to do with the huge batch window, so if anybody who participated in big pvp battles during SOM, did the lag seem less terrible or was it about the same?
completely agree - blizz saw us complaining that we had a broken arm and amputated all 4 limbs as a solution. the big pvp battles in som were a lot better than in classic, but this wasn't related to batching
@@perp- I think the game feels pretty good right now in most situations. I don't really want to risk a change like this at this point in the game's life. I think overall the 100ms window would be more fair but also cracks the door to some fuckery as well lol
Could you provide any examples of how batching would add skill cap to other classes? I’m very curious. Ima brain dead mage and can’t think of any myself.
As Mage, Nova incoming HoJ. Nova meleerange gouge. Counterspell > Rogue Vanish (breaking it). There's a bunch but i dont play mage to tell you what u could do. ;p
bro it's interesting how EVERYONE is making a video of pshero as of recent. until this video, I saw just a bunch of stream snipers posting vids of them killing pshero. amazing video as always.
hah, yeah the point is to explain a defunct system, I think we're better off showing everyone how our shared game could be a lot better from both the gameplay AND the viewing experience. everyone gets very excited when two specific players duel, but it could be so much more interesting & skillful with a slight change. thank you for the comment!
Hi Perp, I totally agree with you, you made a video that clearly says and shows what I was thinking when my friends were asking about spellbatching, thanks for the video! 🥰
I always thought Classic felt really "off" in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on until I saw how batching affected everything. The way it works now it makes many fights feel like a flowchart than having to try and keep one step ahead and providing answers to things your opponent is doing.
I love how people are making comments like this, gives me hope that more people than I think understand why the system needs tweaking. Thank you for the comment. Completely agree as well. Hate flowcharts man
I miss our duels on the PTR with my mage. You added me to bnet then havent played against you since then. Looking forward to it once more when som2 hits.🎉
great video, crazy that i ripped perp 6 on a mp4 converter the other day just to save that duel w the norwegian dude. One of the greatest classic wow clips of all time
perp uses sapper as sap breaks to get nyht out of stealth and vanishes to get opener nyht vanishes perps cs opener perp blinds nyht out of vanish and gets a reset nyht delays his lap to ensure perp is on gcd perp vanishes nyhts lap blind perp blinds nyhts vanish nyht almost sappers perps blind perp opens ambush to force nyhts blind and pops skull to break it nyht nets perps sprint (idk if perp sprinted in anticipation or because he knew he was close to the kill) both rogues are pretty much out of tools here but perp is ahead and has won EDIT: I probably missed something but this is what I see.
Classic wow was kinda doomed to fail because it used the modern engine, then tried to replicate classic wow, (versus a BC core private server which was closer) then had batching windows which were too exaggerated and big, then too small. It really is a shame. I was really dissatisfied and surprised when we had people clamoring "we did it guys, batching is in!!!!" then quickly realized it was too much and gross. It's interesting, too, even with private server lag and batching it often times felt more snappy and less 'big laggy batch window' than classic wow did at launch.
I actually dueled Nyht on Feenix back in 2013. Probably one of the best rogues in classic WoW. Honorable mentions to Roope; him and Nyht were in the same guild on Feenix (Forsaken guild) and dueled a lot.
I 100% agree as someone who fell into the love of playing a Druid the change of batching to 10ms even in LK is still felt. You see in the previous batching window of 400ms you'd find that when you shapeshifted you'd rarely ever get kicked out of form and you could batch abilities together which is important when you have to waste a 1 second GCD to shift in the first place. In TBC when you'd powershift you'd often get caught on a batch and get kicked back to human form forcing you to have to re-shift back into form wasting time and GCDs. In LK you had to bearweave and at times you'd deal with this problem and what's worse was the issue of getting kicked and not being able to batch an ability as soon as you shifted meaning it was a choice of Maul or Auto and wait. The changes to Druid with FF clearcasting procs has fixed the need for ongoing PvE shifting playing monocat but when trying to play in PvP it is a problem. It can still happen in PvE when you need to shift for one reason or another. What often hurts is when you try and shift but the ability lines up with the batch window and just doesn't shift you at all. So you have to press the shift button twice wasting time. Druids are one of those classes that until further on (Post Cata) Druids still remain broken (Shifting) and in competitive gameplay can make or break plays. I too was of the opinion that if players from Singapore/Hong Kong often played on OCE servers for various genre of online games with 100ms then that was a reasonable batching value. However in the current state you can't predict as a Druid especially a feral, when you're going to get punished because the game won't let you press a button. I miss being able to charge+bash, it was huge and yes I did hate the 400ms because it was too long. This meaning there was at times a brief pause between powershifts because it was a bit excessive. But Druids are still in the same position as Vanilla where, Warlocks and Priests still hard counter with fear. Which is a stupid situation to think that from a balancing stand point. Ferals lost their ability to off heal with only 50% of agil going to +heals in LK this meaning only boomies are viable with rogues on the average and otherwise you may as well run double rogue. It's just hard to believe how a change so small could effect a class soo much. To that end I will say that yes Rogues are punished because of the stealth mechanic they share yet Rogues rely on.
sadly its not coming back. the average player is not going to care about the benefits and it has a negative perception now. i wish they had these batching windows on certain spell interactions instead of the entire game, thats where all the negativity came from
I'm happy you said this because I can let you know this isn't spellbatching! this is movement specific batching which is STILL at a fixed 500 ms tick. Personally I'd like to see this gone!
@@perp- 100% agree. While movement in WoW has always felt responsive and better than any other mmo I've played. Movement based batching doesn't add anything to the game aside from letting things hit that shouldn't or having things miss that shouldn't.
@@6ic6ic6ic well movement based batching used to bring quite a bit like jumping off ledges and charging or blinking back up.. sadly they also removed that in classic. I guess blizzard makes decicions based off calculations run on an actual potato.
Could anyone give me some examples of how an increased batching window favors other classes? I'm not asking this as a way of saying rogues are the only class that would benefit, I'm just much less experienced in PvP and would love to know more about this aspect of it.
The best ping I get is 180ms. In other words I'm always at a disadvantage. That gives me some comfort in knowing why my shammy struggles so much against rogs, but obliterates warriors. If all the 🐒s only knew how much of an advantage they have...
@@perp- BTW, I was the shammy in org last night outside the Hall of Legends. I was watching your stream for the first time as another Horde rog told me you were in org and streaming 😆
Lets be real 400 ms batching was op even 100 ms would be op, 10 ms batching it actually forces you to be good. You can still batch everything as u mention but u have to predict it not react like with 400 ms. 10 ms is fine feels smooth i have 23 ms and i vanish coils at point blank just fine. I say no to 100 ms.
prediction isn't skill brother. a good player will just wait for you to blow your vanish or blind and then you're down cds for absolutely zero reason. the likelihood you batch something is almost nonexistent because the batch window is 1-10 ms, so you can literally have a window of 1 ms where two spells would have to go off at the same time, factoring in latency. even with a prediction, the likelihood of both of those spells being in that same ONE milisecond packet is second to none. thank you for taking the time to comment but you have a severe misunderstanding of how this system works. I also don't think you watched the whole video (it's only 2 minutes) because I explain this very clearly - the game becomes wasteful cd trading, not intelligent/high skilled outplays. Also, if 100 ms would be too op, why have I not seen a single rogue pvp video with 400 ms vanishing blinds in the ENTIRETY of classic? also, projectile spells do not count, this is for instant cast spells, vanishing coils hasn't changed
If you play fighting games, amazing moments like Daigo's parry in Street Fighter 3rd Strike's Evo Moment #37 is around 10 frames of reaction time (granted he was buffering half the input in anticipation of this and it was the only thing he was looking out for, but that's still 166ms of a window for him to do such a clutch reaction, very impressive, but within reactable bounds with training if you look at DrPerp's graph this video) It's not prediction so much anticipating you'll need to react soon, as contextually for my example above, chunli super was coming to chip him out, or in wow terms, if you contextually know a trinket blind must come within the next stun, since otherwise your opponent would simply die. If the window for 3rd Strike parries was 10ms like with spell batching, that would be less than 1 frame of time, since 1 frame at 60fps is 16.6ms. That is to say a legendary moment wouldn't have been possible, because it was the reaction that made it clutch, not randomly throwing it out hoping to predict. For another example, while I was duelling a Gladiator mage in Wotlk, I fake casted the first tick of my penance, getting no real heal from it, because I knew he would try CS as fast as possible on reaction to seeing the cast bar. If he had randomly threw out a blanket CS, he would be done for, as I'd just freecast heals after, but he tried to react at the fastest possible time to punish me, because that's the only reasonable move there.
I just think when they made the change to 10 ms batching it forced me to become a better player. I learnt to like 10 ms Prediction is skill prediction is knowing the matchup so well you know what the opponent will do. Ive used a zanza to reflect tidal before trying to reflect coil. yes you are right you cant allways predict what they will do but u can know matchup so well u know when they have to use some kind of a item or ability because if they dont they will die. I have 23 ms and 10 ms batching is no issue for me How much ms do you have? As for not seeing a rogue with 400 ms vanish a blind that could be because of many reasons. Not all rogues record their gameplay, rogue v rogue matchup is rare, Most rogues just skull blind and we havent had 400 ms for years now. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment. @@perp-
Prediction is not mindlessly pressing silence hopeing to locksomone out for kick was a bad example to use because kicks have allwways been reaction based abilitys on the gcd as melee / sp sham and off cgd as mage / lock Prediction is making a educational evaluation of the situation and taking a mental note plan about future things i guess you could use it mindlessly too lol I do remember with 400 ms on my mage dueling another mage and i could legit react to their cast then start casting and we would both sheep eachother thats how broken 400 ms is i know 100 ms wont be that crazy but it will still feel laggy compared to modern 10 ms batch windows @@Makofueled
The removal of spell batching is what caused me to quit playing wow back when cata dropped and the vanish changes happened. I ended up playing on Arena-Tournament server for a while afterwards but that was 10ish years ago now.
give us a tiny bit of batching blizzard gosh-darn-it it's more entertaining for everyone playing or watching!
+ sorry the last fight has credits because it's at the end of this video haha ruclips.net/video/fLkZuz7kjyU/видео.html
We need to get this upvoted on the classic wow subreddit and on the forums. While i dont think bliz is capable of creating anything good on the back of their own talent these days I do think they occasionally listen to good community feedback in classic.
There's levels to this shit, but with 10ms batching theres far fewer levels ;_;
totally agree Chris mate
Where can we upvote this? Let’s make a thread on official forum
Sucks the subreddit is filled with trolls and people who dont even play the game
what is batching?
yes
haha they went from like half a sec batching to 10ms XD? why not 50-100, which would actually be fun? I remember eating rogue shit in classic because batching window was absurd, but 10ms? lol
To me, is astonishing to see how people think pshero is better rogue than you Bc he opened on you first... LOL..
Opening first means he had faster reflexes = better
Blinding the LAP also means he had faster reflexes and better read = better.
These are facts, everything else is just a cope.
@@fmls8266 you haven't even watched the video... Have you?
Typical pshero fan.
@@fmls8266 lol did you even watch the video or listen to anything that was said? They both killed each other. And the player that gets the opener wins, that was the whole point.
It's about latency... The player with better latency can respond "faster"
Also.. just the fact that he opened with cheap shot instead of sap is a mistake.
Let's make the case we both have same latency... You are spamming your stealth+cheap shot macro and I'm doing the same but with my sap macro. So we both hit each other.
All fair . Latency was the same. Skill came in the equation the moment you choose your action (opener).
So now I'm cheap shoted and you are saped.
When cheap shot wears off... And I'm able to do anything, you will be still saped. Now you lose.
It's not my opinion vs yours. It's only facts.
Fanboys arguing who of their favorite streamers is the best rogue, both rogues are almost equally skilled but in their own way. It’s mind blowing to me that people actually care and argue about who of the two is better or vice versa.
We need more of this, best explanation. Thank you my Perp
ur the best calle
Good video, i think many people have a hard time seeing the argument for batching without having examples put infront of them of why it can be good.
Someone hearing what batching is for the first time would probably 99% of the time give the immediate response of "this is clearly bad", but theres more nuance to it than that and this is provides great examples of why
thank you! and yeah, that's what I was aiming for!
holy shit it's pshero
😂
Best rogue in earth Keep it up!!
no YOU are
YES YES YES. 100ms batching will remove the more frustrating problems with batching that can occur and still allow for opportunities to anticipate and outplay thru mind games and anticipation.
I wish more people would understand our viewpoint on this
potentially!@@369th0
@@369th0 Didnt they reduce it to 200ms back in original tbc or wrath, from 400ms in vanilla? I thought it was really really good in original wrath at least.
I really really miss being able to vanish a HOJ or a Blind etc. Now you're pretty much forced to use LAPs like candy because of 10MS.
ya, it's terrible gameplay
Absolutely. Back in original wrath, all I did all day was 1v1 rogue vs rogue (along with arenas) so I got very very used to exploiting the batching window to create insanely fun and tactical duels. When they were talking about removing it back in classic I felt like I was almost alone in wanting to keep it. I guess its normal since it only really make thing more fun for rogues, but still. To me batching was an essential part of the toolkit of rogues and I really miss those times.
yessir! now it's just cd trading, very boring
It allowed paladins to sit/crit reckoning which is the only thing that made it enjoyable to level and not be absolutely awful in world PVP.
batching is so fun why does every game company make it a mission to ruin what made the game special.
I'm straight up a fan of keeping it at 200, I think even 100 is unnecessarily small. It allows good gamesense to shine without necessarily cracked reactions, but that is why I play private servers.
I agree, but I doubt we'd get them to do 200, because the uneducated pveers will have an unnecessary problem with it
@@perp- Haha I didn't wanna say it but you're spitting facts
Spot on there perp! It does feel great having such smooth gameplay with next to no batching but there was just something really unique with spell batching. I advocated for spell batching since classics announcement back in 2017 and didn't like it when it was changed. I certainly prefer a larger batch window and about 100ms or so would be great! 150 to 200 maybe even better. It also makes the viewing so much more entertaining!
Keep it up mate. #teamrogue
let me guess you play rogue and now you can't batch every pyro coil aimed shot or whatever animation with your 50 years old reaction time ? how sad quickly buff rogue again !!!!
they also need to fix sap putting you in combat in bgs and pets following you in stealth and combat bugging ( probably a few others i'm forgetting ). I doubt we'll see change though w/o a lot of noise. I can't imagine the average player caring about the current batching, so i'm not particularly hopeful.
agree mate, we'll see what they do. hopefully something
Damn it feels good to play private servers Bedge
sadge
Totally agreed that a wider batch window makes for more emergent game properties then a smaller. And basically the emergent properties are what makes classic fun, any expansion on it should make for more options, more random cool finds, not via design but by emergent gameplay.
yessir!
I was originally pushing for batching in classic beta and I totally agree a 100ms batch window would be a good compromise
blizzard dont do it, it will make the game good, u guys dont want that
ROFL matt
i mean it looks cool on paper but for ppl that play from faraway from the servers location we get like 150 - 200 ms and with that mechanic yea it feels so hopeless and 0 skill when u fight another guy with 7ms , also i feel like it promotes scripting even more. (Ex AT player here)
having 100-150 ms spellbatching would make it easier for people with lag! because spells are batched into windows, and aren't ping based (like they are now, with 10 ms batching).
Agree, so many high level interactions are gone since batching is this low. But the question is: perp ASMR when?!
LOL sique (teach kraun hunter he's useless)
I was pretty sure that someone with an inflated ego would try somewhat to justify the fact he got rekt.
What was your excuse when the pally with a skirt demolished your rank 14 batching rogue on CDL?
That was amazing, smooth voice do podcast ty
thank you for the comment sir!
oh my gawd the perp podcast! it would be legendary
Unfortunately, the bulk of wow players are not hardcore pvpers so changes like this benefit the majority of the population (smoother gameplay) and hamper a small elite (very skilled pvpers). I see the argument for having a larger batch window, but I doubt Blizzard would tune it in a way to benefit a tiny fraction of the player base. I assume that back in the day this mechanic was tuned to cater for the average players latency being much larger than today. Since modern day internet connections are generally much lower latency, it makes sense to remove / reduce the batch window. The side effect of being able to vanish blinds, can be thought of as "clever use of game mechanics" rather than a feature of the game which needs to be introduced back, however sad that might be.
Playing era without batching in 2024 feels very defeating. I vanished a cheap shot the other night in AV and it honestly made me want to quit on the spot when I realized how much I missed it.
It's astonishing how you come up with new ways of pushing a two-decade old decaying game forward, whether by the off the chart game style or this novel explanation
thank you for the humbling words brother, appreciate you
The thing that stood out to me with classic release was that you could jump into a mob unstealthed and aggro it then press stealth and get a cheap shot off before it hit you so you could get cheapshot off without slow stealth walking speed, and do it very reliably. Thats how i remember leveling up in 2006 too. I was kind of sad batching got reduced because of that and the way it changed PvP made me want to play another class entirely to be honest.
no rogues, only perp
pramiti the king
Awful devs, good ASMR video 👍
hahahhaa
This is like art
My big question is who is this big rogue that inspired you? I love learning WoW history and about legends/pioneers lol
Nyht!
aside from leeway i think mine and a lot of player's most common complaint throughout 2019 classic was that the batch window was way too high, and blizzard must have taken that as a sign from the playerbase that we hated spell batching altogether
probably worth asking here since i had a bit of a hunch that the massive server lag during really big world pvp battles may have had something to do with the huge batch window, so if anybody who participated in big pvp battles during SOM, did the lag seem less terrible or was it about the same?
completely agree - blizz saw us complaining that we had a broken arm and amputated all 4 limbs as a solution. the big pvp battles in som were a lot better than in classic, but this wasn't related to batching
> blizz saw us complaining that we had a broken arm and amputated all 4 limbs as a solution
lmao 💀💀💀
@@ywnywnywnrofl well said
pretty good skills but I'll pick the Ghost of Bulgaria in a duel vs you
I'm fine with 10 or 100ms and it's already at 10 so I don't see a need to change it personally
that's fair man, everyone's welcome to their opinion
@@perp- I think the game feels pretty good right now in most situations. I don't really want to risk a change like this at this point in the game's life. I think overall the 100ms window would be more fair but also cracks the door to some fuckery as well lol
@@tywilson3689 yeah I understand man. on warmane they've got 200 ms batching so, you could try it out there and see what ya think
Could you provide any examples of how batching would add skill cap to other classes? I’m very curious. Ima brain dead mage and can’t think of any myself.
As Mage, Nova incoming HoJ. Nova meleerange gouge. Counterspell > Rogue Vanish (breaking it). There's a bunch but i dont play mage to tell you what u could do. ;p
the batching thing really frustrates me. I posted about it on the NA forums and got a response confirming it's intentional and here to stay.
yeah, hate it as well, wcyd!
bro it's interesting how EVERYONE is making a video of pshero as of recent. until this video, I saw just a bunch of stream snipers posting vids of them killing pshero. amazing video as always.
hah, yeah the point is to explain a defunct system, I think we're better off showing everyone how our shared game could be a lot better from both the gameplay AND the viewing experience. everyone gets very excited when two specific players duel, but it could be so much more interesting & skillful with a slight change. thank you for the comment!
eloquently put, completely agree.
appreciate your comment stu!
Hi Perp, I totally agree with you, you made a video that clearly says and shows what I was thinking when my friends were asking about spellbatching, thanks for the video! 🥰
my pleasure, thank you for the comment!
I always thought Classic felt really "off" in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on until I saw how batching affected everything. The way it works now it makes many fights feel like a flowchart than having to try and keep one step ahead and providing answers to things your opponent is doing.
I love how people are making comments like this, gives me hope that more people than I think understand why the system needs tweaking. Thank you for the comment. Completely agree as well. Hate flowcharts man
I miss our duels on the PTR with my mage. You added me to bnet then havent played against you since then. Looking forward to it once more when som2 hits.🎉
can do some when I'm on! just poke me
great video, crazy that i ripped perp 6 on a mp4 converter the other day just to save that duel w the norwegian dude. One of the greatest classic wow clips of all time
thank you! and damn, yeah love Nyht. the goat
Favorite Vein ... Favorite Needle
ROFL
Can somebody please give a play by play for the last duel? Im too bad to notice exactly what’s happening, Thankyou ❤
perp uses sapper as sap breaks to get nyht out of stealth and vanishes to get opener
nyht vanishes perps cs opener
perp blinds nyht out of vanish and gets a reset
nyht delays his lap to ensure perp is on gcd
perp vanishes nyhts lap blind
perp blinds nyhts vanish
nyht almost sappers perps blind
perp opens ambush to force nyhts blind and pops skull to break it
nyht nets perps sprint (idk if perp sprinted in anticipation or because he knew he was close to the kill)
both rogues are pretty much out of tools here but perp is ahead and has won
EDIT: I probably missed something but this is what I see.
@@Haps_q your a legend, thanks for that mate 😘
Agree, I'm no god at the game, but it's very boring with no batching
yesss! better for everyone
Classic wow was kinda doomed to fail because it used the modern engine, then tried to replicate classic wow, (versus a BC core private server which was closer) then had batching windows which were too exaggerated and big, then too small. It really is a shame. I was really dissatisfied and surprised when we had people clamoring "we did it guys, batching is in!!!!" then quickly realized it was too much and gross. It's interesting, too, even with private server lag and batching it often times felt more snappy and less 'big laggy batch window' than classic wow did at launch.
Hello @perplexity, very good explanation of the batching issue =) Thank you
nah fuck it make it 200ms
Rouge player asking for a rouge buff in classic wow (LEL) because "it makes rouge vs rouge more interesting" (TOP LEL)
I actually dueled Nyht on Feenix back in 2013. Probably one of the best rogues in classic WoW.
Honorable mentions to Roope; him and Nyht were in the same guild on Feenix (Forsaken guild) and dueled a lot.
I 100% agree as someone who fell into the love of playing a Druid the change of batching to 10ms even in LK is still felt. You see in the previous batching window of 400ms you'd find that when you shapeshifted you'd rarely ever get kicked out of form and you could batch abilities together which is important when you have to waste a 1 second GCD to shift in the first place.
In TBC when you'd powershift you'd often get caught on a batch and get kicked back to human form forcing you to have to re-shift back into form wasting time and GCDs.
In LK you had to bearweave and at times you'd deal with this problem and what's worse was the issue of getting kicked and not being able to batch an ability as soon as you shifted meaning it was a choice of Maul or Auto and wait.
The changes to Druid with FF clearcasting procs has fixed the need for ongoing PvE shifting playing monocat but when trying to play in PvP it is a problem. It can still happen in PvE when you need to shift for one reason or another. What often hurts is when you try and shift but the ability lines up with the batch window and just doesn't shift you at all. So you have to press the shift button twice wasting time.
Druids are one of those classes that until further on (Post Cata) Druids still remain broken (Shifting) and in competitive gameplay can make or break plays. I too was of the opinion that if players from Singapore/Hong Kong often played on OCE servers for various genre of online games with 100ms then that was a reasonable batching value.
However in the current state you can't predict as a Druid especially a feral, when you're going to get punished because the game won't let you press a button. I miss being able to charge+bash, it was huge and yes I did hate the 400ms because it was too long. This meaning there was at times a brief pause between powershifts because it was a bit excessive. But Druids are still in the same position as Vanilla where, Warlocks and Priests still hard counter with fear. Which is a stupid situation to think that from a balancing stand point. Ferals lost their ability to off heal with only 50% of agil going to +heals in LK this meaning only boomies are viable with rogues on the average and otherwise you may as well run double rogue.
It's just hard to believe how a change so small could effect a class soo much. To that end I will say that yes Rogues are punished because of the stealth mechanic they share yet Rogues rely on.
uhm who was the rogue that inspired u? didnt catch it? 😂
nyht
Perp you really do have the poshest voice I've ever heard
love seals
LOL
which do you prefer between vanilla and wotlk?
I'd rather not choose, love playing both
sadly its not coming back. the average player is not going to care about the benefits and it has a negative perception now. i wish they had these batching windows on certain spell interactions instead of the entire game, thats where all the negativity came from
what is the addon that shows enemy cooldowns on the nameplate? nameplatecooldowns is not working on classic for me
it's a weakaura "platebuffs"
Thanks 🙏🏼
this vid must be fake there's no way nyht can lose
hahahahah I miss him
ye give batching so i can play my fucking rog too
godspeed
If you don't like and reply to this comment, you like retail @perp
whoa
:D @@perp-
thx for video!!
ty for the comment!
@@perp- i like that you continues wow classic content. Batching moves are really entertaining xD
Because people WALKING over my trap and it not triggering is them outplaying me, now it's okay(ish)
I'm happy you said this because I can let you know this isn't spellbatching! this is movement specific batching which is STILL at a fixed 500 ms tick. Personally I'd like to see this gone!
@@perp- 100% agree. While movement in WoW has always felt responsive and better than any other mmo I've played. Movement based batching doesn't add anything to the game aside from letting things hit that shouldn't or having things miss that shouldn't.
@@6ic6ic6ic well movement based batching used to bring quite a bit like jumping off ledges and charging or blinking back up.. sadly they also removed that in classic. I guess blizzard makes decicions based off calculations run on an actual potato.
@@Haps_q I'd forgotten you could do that. 👍
hell yeah b0rther 👏
I'm cheering for you in the Mak'Gora tournament Perp I hope you win the whole thing
Great title
elegant
MORE OF THIS! awesome video!
ty for your comment!
nice
#nochanges !
Could anyone give me some examples of how an increased batching window favors other classes? I'm not asking this as a way of saying rogues are the only class that would benefit, I'm just much less experienced in PvP and would love to know more about this aspect of it.
Sapper / dark rune blind or other damage break cc. Also makes skull more efficient for casters to avoid mana drain
This is truly the video that needs to go viral so it gets infront of the people that needs to see it..
You Sir.. Are just Crazy.. Would u like me to send some pizza and houseservice ?
you bring that fine ass over here
I really like Both of you!
The best ping I get is 180ms. In other words I'm always at a disadvantage. That gives me some comfort in knowing why my shammy struggles so much against rogs, but obliterates warriors. If all the 🐒s only knew how much of an advantage they have...
batching would help ya!
@@perp- ye, when batching was removed years ago I knew I'd be at a disadvantage, but never knew how badly till seeing your video.
@@perp- BTW, I was the shammy in org last night outside the Hall of Legends. I was watching your stream for the first time as another Horde rog told me you were in org and streaming 😆
переведите суть, при чем тут пшеро?
sorry I don't speak russian sir :(
this means "translate the essence, what does pshero have to do with it?", a question for Russian-speaking language experts)
😍😍😍
ashvir the lord
eft stream
LOL maybe..
wohooooooooooooooooo fortnite und cola YIPPIEEEEEEEE
@@perp- foookin do it!
God bless the PS
+
Man has the most classy voice and accent that makes his streams feel like a spiritual adventure.
too kind, I am merely a degenerate button masher
@@perp- stop lying, we know you wear a turtleneck and drink french wine while playing wow.
@@user-nt3uh8ru6s😂
rofl@@user-nt3uh8ru6s
Just play the new server sanctuary
can't go back man :(
@@perp- whattttttt old client looks so much better though
@@justinb8297 oh my god I miss moonwalking SO MUCH!
true, why did i end my 1.12 client & addons yesterday ._.@@Haps_q
Is it distain? Is it indifference? Nobody knows. But what we do know is that blizzard does not care about its player base.
LOL
A while ago I said I’d only play again if batching came back
Starting okay rogue again do you recommend daggers or swords? Trying to do both pve and pvp content
Swords pve, daggers pvp.
Lets be real 400 ms batching was op even 100 ms would be op, 10 ms batching it actually forces you to be good.
You can still batch everything as u mention but u have to predict it not react like with 400 ms.
10 ms is fine feels smooth i have 23 ms and i vanish coils at point blank just fine. I say no to 100 ms.
prediction isn't skill brother. a good player will just wait for you to blow your vanish or blind and then you're down cds for absolutely zero reason. the likelihood you batch something is almost nonexistent because the batch window is 1-10 ms, so you can literally have a window of 1 ms where two spells would have to go off at the same time, factoring in latency. even with a prediction, the likelihood of both of those spells being in that same ONE milisecond packet is second to none. thank you for taking the time to comment but you have a severe misunderstanding of how this system works. I also don't think you watched the whole video (it's only 2 minutes) because I explain this very clearly - the game becomes wasteful cd trading, not intelligent/high skilled outplays. Also, if 100 ms would be too op, why have I not seen a single rogue pvp video with 400 ms vanishing blinds in the ENTIRETY of classic?
also, projectile spells do not count, this is for instant cast spells, vanishing coils hasn't changed
If you play fighting games, amazing moments like Daigo's parry in Street Fighter 3rd Strike's Evo Moment #37 is around 10 frames of reaction time (granted he was buffering half the input in anticipation of this and it was the only thing he was looking out for, but that's still 166ms of a window for him to do such a clutch reaction, very impressive, but within reactable bounds with training if you look at DrPerp's graph this video) It's not prediction so much anticipating you'll need to react soon, as contextually for my example above, chunli super was coming to chip him out, or in wow terms, if you contextually know a trinket blind must come within the next stun, since otherwise your opponent would simply die.
If the window for 3rd Strike parries was 10ms like with spell batching, that would be less than 1 frame of time, since 1 frame at 60fps is 16.6ms.
That is to say a legendary moment wouldn't have been possible, because it was the reaction that made it clutch, not randomly throwing it out hoping to predict.
For another example, while I was duelling a Gladiator mage in Wotlk, I fake casted the first tick of my penance, getting no real heal from it, because I knew he would try CS as fast as possible on reaction to seeing the cast bar. If he had randomly threw out a blanket CS, he would be done for, as I'd just freecast heals after, but he tried to react at the fastest possible time to punish me, because that's the only reasonable move there.
@@Makofueled fucking beautiful example sir
I just think when they made the change to 10 ms batching it forced me to become a better player. I learnt to like 10 ms
Prediction is skill prediction is knowing the matchup so well you know what the opponent will do.
Ive used a zanza to reflect tidal before trying to reflect coil. yes you are right you cant allways predict what they will do but u can know matchup so well u know when they have to use some kind of a item or ability because if they dont they will die.
I have 23 ms and 10 ms batching is no issue for me How much ms do you have?
As for not seeing a rogue with 400 ms vanish a blind that could be because of many reasons. Not all rogues record their gameplay, rogue v rogue matchup is rare, Most rogues just skull blind and we havent had 400 ms for years now.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment.
@@perp-
Prediction is not mindlessly pressing silence hopeing to locksomone out for kick was a bad example to use because kicks have allwways been reaction based abilitys on the gcd as melee / sp sham and off cgd as mage / lock
Prediction is making a educational evaluation of the situation and taking a mental note plan about future things i guess you could use it mindlessly too lol
I do remember with 400 ms on my mage dueling another mage and i could legit react to their cast then start casting and we would both sheep eachother thats how broken 400 ms is i know 100 ms wont be that crazy but it will still feel laggy compared to modern 10 ms batch windows @@Makofueled
The removal of spell batching is what caused me to quit playing wow back when cata dropped and the vanish changes happened. I ended up playing on Arena-Tournament server for a while afterwards but that was 10ish years ago now.
hahaha same here
Based
see you at the bangers n mash bar bruv
LMAO