ENGINE FAILURE: Testing the Compression & Pulling The Engine On a Sailboat in Opua New Zealand
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Episode 307 : Season 10 : New Zealand - Aotearoa
Hello Friends,
Welcome to Season 10! This season will cover all of our adventures in New Zealand during the year of 2023 (and this episode from 2022).
On this episode I get the engine troubles diagnosed and get it pulled out of the boat and get Triteia moved out to the anchorage in Opua, NZ.
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Fair Winds,
James
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James is in my top 5 sailboat vlogs He is that good . Find out what all this cost and I am sure all of us can chip in to help . Yes I am a sailboat cruiser on the SE coast of the US. James is at a whole other level.
Excellent choice in music for move from slip to anchorage. Good luck with that engine!
I rate the blokes fixing ya engine bruv . I'll put my name to em
What a PITA, FINE JOB!
I rebuilt my own 2GM20F. It cost $1,200 US in 2012 in Mobile, Alabama. These little engines weigh 365 pounds, close to what a car engine weighs (a small v-8). If you remove all the peripherals (starter, transmission, alternator) it still weighs over 200 pounds. There are no sleeves so you might have to ream and oversize the cylinders but my cylinder walls were fine. I just honed them to break the glaze. I had a professional machine shop rework the head: it did not need to be flattened but he did replace the valves, valve guides, valve seats, springs and carefully clean it for $220. I replaced all seals, put on a new fuel pump, replaced all bearings (the crank did not need work), new pistons and rings. When I re-assembled it and put it on a test stand it started before the crankshaft completed a complete revolution! It used 10 quarts of oil before the rings seated but never used any oil after the initial break in. It ran perfectly for hundreds of hours. These are great little engines that are easy to work on. Unfortunately, Yanmar no longer supports these engines here in the USA. But parts are available from international sources. The chief problem with the engine is the water-lift muffler and seawater cooled exhaust. Salt vapor erodes the heads with rust and imposes severe damage to the engines unless the exhaust is isolated from the engine at every shut down. If you run a hot exhaust like all commercial boats do, this is not a problem and the 2GM20F will run for over 20,000 hours. Great engines. Anyone sailing around the globe should learn to fix his own engine.
Thanks!
Standard Yanmar issue.
Exhaust valve and valve seats get eaten away by salt air coming back thru exhaust system.
They can blow head gaskets but its not the most common fault unless they get cooked.
Exhaust mixing elbows choke up (from low speed running, leaking/dribbling injectors) which cause too much back pressure on the cylinders.
Precombustion chambers can erode away.
Shouldve put a squirt of oil down the cylinder thru injector hole to see if compression increased or stayed the same. If it increases then its normally a piston/ring/bore issue. If it stays pretty much the same then its normally valve seat condition.
GM series Yanmars are a great little unit but they all suufer from the same issues.
Raw water cooled units suffer more than engines with a heat-exchanger system.
James you're so calm about these things, I suppose one must pro-act rather then react. I remember reading your log about the engines woes, great to see the action as it unfolds. Anyhow sending you best wishes, stay safe, good travels.....Neil.
Yeah, getting excited or upset only makes things worse, I just look for solutions.
Brah good morning from Oahu was just catching up on your content and journey last night! This is some of the best content on RUclips
Stay free never change
Hope you can get out of it at a good price James. All the best with it
Been watching you from start . I'm about to buy my first wind bludger soon . Love ta meet you cuzxie one day . May moana bless you
Ahhh. One of the many joys of boat ownership
The move montage music was marvelous.
when doing compresion test. If you add oil and do second test.and copression goes up. It tells you rings worn. If no change then its a head issue. Valves/guides.
That's true, it could be rings but it could be valves.
On a diesel, if you add oil you can hydraulic the engine and do more damage..
@@WillParker-kc3xt he doesn't mean putting oil on top of the piston but rather in the normal way. It won't hydrolock
@@jonnenne you would never compression test an engine without oil in the sump. You and the original commenter have no idea
Enjoyed your video, thank you for sharing
Hope it was a great outcome after all. I enjoy watching your channel. I am 62 and have just purchased a 31ft North sea yacht. It is 50 years old and strip plank Huon pine. For those that don't know about Huon pine just look it up. Anyway James you are an inspiration. BTW what is your vocation background, you have a great skill set. Cheers Shane, Tasmania.
Yeah the engine rebuild went smooth just took forever, my skill set mostly comes from being poor my entire life and having to fix my own cars and motorcycles.
@@SailorJames Best university or school you can go to is the School of life. Are you still in N.Z ?
Low compression can also be caused by carbon buildup on the exhaust valves. There's an old trick where you pour a little auto trans fluid and kerosene mix on top of the pistons while the cylinder head is off getting a valve job. The atf and kerosene mixture will leak down into the compression rings and dissolve the carbon buildup, the cylinder head valve job will fix compression leaking out the exhaust valves, you put it back together and your all set! Another 2000 hours. Sometimes. But "sometimes" is still definitely worth a shot!
Excited for the future adventures. Feel like im learning for my own adventures to come.
Hi James sorry about your engine mate.
On your insurance woes about 12 years ago l was going to visit NZ . Insurance was an issue.
There was a company called Edward William insurance, they provided cover to most of the Ferro boats in New Zealand.
It was affordable,I think they are located in Spain.
World wide cover.
Good luck cheers Bryan
great to see you here in Nz .. just a thing ..my parents sailed around the world on a 26 footer with no motor .. they used the sails in every condition .. they had no life raft ether .... only thing i dont get ..yu say its christmas holidays ..but we are now in june ...so i imagine your not in the marina anymore ...would have visited if so ... welcome to the wild Nz waters ..
Pull it and go through it all. Easier than another engine. Pull it yourself and let them do the machine work. It’s a day out and a day in. I did oversized pistons in my 3GM30F. Runs like new! Make sure your antisiphon valve is bulletproof!
Haha, brilliant music choice! upbeat Balkan music 😀
Your such an inspiration mate, I CAN DO THIS ;) thank you soooo much
Best of luck with your Engine. It sucks having issues. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
Glad you made it safe to your next journey sorry your motor went out i hope its something easy to fix
All part of the dream, good and bad, obstacles and triumphs! It’s all good!
At least the weather looks good ! And you have friends helping
Love the channel, brother.
I think what makes this channel so interesting is that the equipment keeps breaking down, but James films it all and its a learning curve for him and us the viewers. It would be boring if it was just all plain sailing (pardon the pun)
It’s a very real part of cruising, every boat that arrived in Opua, big/ small, brand new and old all had major repairs to deal with after making it across the entire pacific. I try and film all aspects of sailing and am glad to hear you like the adventure and the repair videos 👍🏻
Got water in my old MD11 but realized it quickly and saved it by taking of the head and draining the motor refilling with Oil wasn't perfect but continued running till i sold the boat a couple years later.
Another great episode James 👍 also #breakoutanotherthousand! Is what boat stands for don't it lol! Cheers mate and enjoy
Dude you have inspired me. I am gonna go pick up this wonky 50 ft sloop😂 maybe I am nuts. But you and some of the others have really lit the fire.
Low compression doesn't necessarily mean that the sleeves and rings are worn, could be valve timing, or seating, or head gasket. If rings/sleeves were worn, you would have crankcase pressure, so next thing would be to check crankcase breather. If head gasket, and no fumes in boat, check crankcase breather and water pressure on fresh water cooling side, but if valve issues take head off and check seating.
J&B....i got stung by them the first and last time i used them when i first arrived...
They did my rebuild, which was extensive, for $3200USD, which was cheaper than the USA
I have overcome low compression starting on an old tractor in winter by firing a blowtorch into the air intake. Not for everyday use, but gets it started.
Could definitely tell it was low when i watched the sailing to New Zealand video.
Man, left us hanging on the delicious lunch! What was it?
Fish and chips
No wonder you had a tough time getting the Yanmar started. As far as why it was getting raw water in it, there would have been several things I would have checked. The siphon break which must be installed between where the raw water comes out of the engine and the mixing elbow is clogged or not there (I've seen new engines ruined because of this). A bad mixing elbow. Some other exhaust defect like hoses or lift muffler. Overcranking with the raw water inlet open (pump still turns). I've even seen where a scoop was installed on the thru hull force water past the pump that did it. Hopefully the cylinders and head weren't too pitted and you didn't have to bore the cylinders out. At the very least I suspect you had to change the pistons and rings, and most likely the valves.
Always somethin'. Solid execution on the problem stack up tho!
Ugh. Sorry to hear this but been there and done this lol. Is it just a blown head gasket? Cute little engine, reminds me of a 1gm I had in my first boat
How did water get inside your engine? That could be helpful for other cruisers.
It’s a common and known issue that can happen, large following seas can be forced up the exhaust into the engine
@@SailorJames I’m sorry to hear that, I hope you find a way to prevent this issue in the future.
James, I think it is not starter. because it is cranking and that is starter job to make it crank.
Did the water get in when your boat was heavily healed over? I’m wondering if it came from the lift muffler. Did you see water in your oil?
In the 70ties I was on a skippers course on a 60 feet sailing barge without an engine here in the Netherlands. We even went one time through Amsterdam under sail, beating into force 7. A lot of people stopped their cars and watched along the Amstel......
The skipper Frans Eissenloeffel told us this was his ship with the least damage costs of his fleet.
Everything was done without an engine in the past.....
People also lived for centuries with houses or buildings
Hi James, why not building a bracket on the stern of your boat, to mount the outboard directly to the boat? It would be much easier to steer and handle while under outboard engine. Tritea is not that big and the outboard prop should shurly be in the water. I,ve seen that kind of brakets on a lot of sailboats here in Germany. Fair winds and following seas.
Because it’s unnecessary and I would have to have a long shaft outboard
Anti-siphon loop? Blown head gasket? How did water get into motor?
James, any idea how the water entered the engine?sorry if that question was answered before. Just asking so as to prevent it from happening again. Thank you
oo fancy new intro
Great video, too bad about the engine
Before anything check your valve lash.
I did
Has it not got a heat exchange in this system, is it raw sea water strait through the block. Or is part of the problem water cooled exhaust manifold leaking back through exhaust valves . Hope you get it all fixed at a reasonable price.🙂
I have progressive boat insurance also here in the States. And I had to file to claims over the years. And they have done me right.
do it right, that engine will run another 30+ years! ...love building engines =)
Putting an electric motor in mine after doing the same thing ur doing. 100 reasons y not to go diesel and only i reason not to go electric. Never been happier. Life is free now
I would never go electric on a cruising boat. Ever.
@@SailorJames i use a cheep generator for safty
Excellent episode -- QUESTION -- Had you installed a new Beta Marine (or similar) engine a the start all those years ago, would you still have all these engine problems or would you have avoided it all?
Water siphoned up the exhaust port, that would kill even a brand new engine, I had attempted to install a inline bronze seacock in the exhaust hose but it was impossible to find the fittings due to the parts shortages during the pandemic
So, even if you had purchased a brand new engine, water would have still gotten into the engine and you would still have had the same trouble? This is nuts.
I would think the sea water in the engine is from cranking the motor over without closing the seacock. It was pumping water with no exhaust, and it filled the exhaust up with water and into the motor
Is it not work making some kind of clip or bracket that's removable to mount your outboard on to push the boat in emergency
The outboard would have to be a long shaft, the dinghy on the hip works perfectly
@SailorJames one either side and it's a hydrofoil 🤣
Dang that sucks!
What would a new engine cost? I’m curious how close the repair bill came to just starting fresh.
Problem is, today, most modern boat engines are ruined the same way as car-engines are ruined by the zealots of the greta-religion. A diesel engine for a boat does need a high compression in somewhat voluminous, longstroke cylinders to enable momentum (torque) with low revs, induced by an all-mechanical, bulletproof low-pressure squirter-pump with one pumping piston and a separate injection line to an all mechanical spring-calibrated injector per cylinder, best even with a prechamber.
There are no more such diesel engines You can buy new these days because they might smoke visibly (no modern NOX or micro-particles, just good old CO2 and honest grime) which is a no-no for all these technically illiterate greta-zealots.
So, repairing/rebuilding it is, to thoroughly avoid all the senseless, unnecessary overcomplication all these shortstroke highrev biturbo common rail electronified direct squirters ruin the longevity of any good boat engine with.
@@manfredschmalbach9023 in australia you can still get the gm30 non common rail for 5k new. But not in tbe usa.not sure about nz.
Maybe a stupid question....Is there any special techniques for driving the boat with the dinghy on the hip? The only reason I asked was that I noticed the outboard motor was turned toward the sailboat (as if the dinghy was turning right). Was that on purpose? Thanks for all your great videos!
It varies boat to boat, my full keel needs the outboard pointing to port to make the boat go straight
Just wish for you ya had a tow start Lister engine
Bro i love your vídeos.
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@SailorJames greetings from Portugal
Hi James did you go home for Christmas or stay in new Zealand
Stayed in NZ
That's a shame James. Isn't that a brand new engine?
No, it was a rebuilt engine from some dudes garage at his house in 2017
@@SailorJames I remember watching you put it in. I thought is was new. Good luck with the repair.
You’ve seen one dead engine you have seen them all, Hope you got it back real quick
Is that a Puerto del Rey (Puerto Rico) Tshirt? Did you go to Puerto Rico in the Caribbean? O_O
Yep yep, did a delivery out of there in 2016
@@SailorJames ohh man, I'm from PR, would love to see a video of you exploring some of the island 🏝.
Insurance on sailing vessels is difficult to find. Even for older Trailable sailing boats insurance is very hard to find, Even harder if the yachts is home made.
Hi James, hopefully you can put one of those outboard brackets on your boat that you can push it up and push it down into the water. That would probably be the cheapest way out and you can use your out boat from your dinghy. Anyway, hope you get through even if you get a self funded me page up to help, I would like to put some money in Cliff from over the ditch. At Logan city, Queensland Australia 🇦🇺 from the big island 🏝️
No need to do a bracket, dinghy on the hip works fine. I don’t do those gofund me pages, just paid for it myself and got it taken care of 👍🏻
I seen another sailing channel that has a very simple leverage device on the side of his boat where he attaches an outboard motor to and simply lowers or lifts out the outboard from the water with the handle in seconds.
But then you use petrol and that cost à lot
@@jungbolosse3034 when your about to be smashed by a approaching storm or you need to move fast away from a reef or a ship and your engine has broken down costs don't matter and easier to fix .
@@wilowest3509 so you are not talking about a permanent solution just in case of breakdown
@@jungbolosse3034 yes a backup short hop solution .
I will try find the link tomorrow am off to bed now but was a simple setup .
So you also got water in your engine ? That seems to be a problem that sailors need to know how to address. It just destroy's the engine ! It happens far too often !
I have a video about engine rebuilding top end only,, valves ect. And another where the guy did the rings at anchor including the sleeves. The top end one was perfect and the guy who was the brains was extremely knowlegable, it was done on Bums on a Boat by a guy and you'll see the guy now as the "bum" is now on the experts boat, I think his name is also James ? Its farily easy to find by searching " Engine Series [Top-End Rebuild] " and its very good. Its like a mini playlist ! Thanks for doing that Bums !
The other one was done by a kid who didn't know what he was doing . You see the cylinder parts completely displayed. His is mostly good from the "seeing what is inside an engine" viewpoint.
I wonder how the sea water got into the cylinders? Perhaps a leak in the cooling system.
Large following seas forced up the tailpipe and a blocked anti siphon valve
Christmas? Its June now... :) I know Your vids can't be real time, but that was half a year ago. Where are You sailing right now? I guess it's South Africa by now.. :)
The Reasons Why Most Sailing Channels Videos Are Not In Realtime
ruclips.net/video/9QGd9JSxgaw/видео.html
m.ruclips.net/video/9QGd9JSxgaw/видео.html
Come on yourself man
@@SailorJames As I said, I know they can't be real time! But thanks for Your reply! No worries, I really enjoyed Your French Polynesia and Passage videos and it doesn't really matter how old they are. All the best and always favorable winds!
Is your sailboat an Alberg?
Yes, I say it in the intro
"Chaos mode" is what it was like in most cases we did an engine-pull for liveraboards. You gotta lift the stinkin' lump of momentarily useless castiron everybody fullheartedly hates by now right between the spicerack and the charttable without spilling all of the unpleasant liquids all over their dinner, their countertops or their children. Some production boats need somewhat extensive cutting into parts fitted _after_ the engine was put in during being bodged together, too, which adds to the trauma an engine-swap or outboard-full-rebuild usually is for the owners not only because of the pricetags a lot of shoreside shops have to put on their work, given they're competing with fancy seafood-restaurants, expensive watch-sellers and high class boutiques for the sheer space to offer their services from. So You seem to be right in the middle when it comes to the range of inconvenience: no kids to entertain, boat still watertight and capable to anchor out (imagine having a saildrive that's gotta come off in order to free the engine enough to get it out ...), awesome shop to work with ..... Could be worse I reckon. Resilient self-reliance of the dedicated singlehander, obviously. Thanks for sharing!
you could try Edward William insurance their third party insurance covers old boats and has 20million public liability insurance they are online based in spain no survey required for third party insurance
This just highlights electric is the way forward from dinosaur means of travel especially in a tiny boat like this. What a pain in the ****.
Electric is absolutely NOT the way to go, I would NEVER outfit a cruising boat with an electric engine unless I was planning on sailing without an engine entirely
@@SailorJames If $37 per day isn't enough then go tell your audience what the price is for a pint at the local? Get that junk out of your boat & have a pint! Fair winds or should I say 'fair froth🍺
mechanical diesels (non-computerized and stuff) are the most reliable, practical engine types there is. Yanmar has been making marine diesels for almost 100 years now. I'm surprised
Me too, I have a vit of a love affair with diesel engines in general tbh, and never had a Problem with Yanmars, pr Volvo, probably due to spoiling them rotten with early servicing and working them at good torque rpms, as all diesels just love working under load, keeps them shiny and happy inside. My Next Sailboat comes with a Common Rail Computerised Yanmar 80hp as standard, so a bit nervous about that I must admit. 🤔 Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob in Wales. 👍✨️✨️✨️🍻
@@brownnoise357 wow, even new expensive yachts like tend to NOT use computerized diesels that are the back up engine for the reasons you well know.
@@protonneutron9046 I know. I am Prepared to Test one though, as if the piggybank is as full as it should be, for me to pay up front for the Yacht, then a replacement engine a few years down the road should be OK, and I do just love Testing Stuff. A switchover of engines should be straightforward, as it is a traditional Shaft drive through the gearbox. I'm also going to be testing the Seldene automatic Sail Handling System, and the Sugar Scoop Bathing platform can have a dropdown Bracket for a backup Outboard as well, just in case. I'll also be testing a Triradial Suit of Sails with one a Battenless in Mast Furling Main. A number of people are keen to get performance updates on that, and how well a Furling self tacking triradial Jib can function with a Reaching Code Zero ( I'm keen on testing a Polyester laminate Cruising one with no Mylar, and how well it can fill in the Wind angle gaps. It's a lot of fun to look forward to tbh. If I don't drop Dead first. Best Wishes. Bob in Wales. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️🍻🍻🍻
@@brownnoise357 all sounds awesome. Enjoy all of it to the fullest.
@@protonneutron9046 Always happiest when .I'm Testing Stuff tbh, especially precision loaded Rifle Ammunition, thanks to that great guy, the late great Dan Hacket one of the Founders of Benchrest Rifle Shooting, who was kind enough to Mentor me through becoming good enough to fly through the Precision Marksmanship Qualification, and I was able to Outshoot the Instructor in the post Qualification Fun Shoot, another great guy Dan would have got on with like a house on fire, and who we sadly lost to an IED in Afghanistan. RIP Phil. ✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️
I had a buddy who's engine failed in a little 20 foot sailboat he owned. Lol this crazy bastered swapped it with an electric forklift engine and a bunch of battery's lol its not fast but boy is it reliable
There's your problem, you got a Roo in the cylinders, crikey.
Docking Insurnce - just try to dock at someone's private cottage. If you were here I would let you stay at our cottage dock no problem. Screw the insurance.
How do you pull an engine?
Sailing Vessel Triteia - Out With The Old - Episode 4 - Removing the Old Yanmar 2gm20 Diesel Engine
ruclips.net/video/NElf1XCeou8/видео.html
Why do they use diesel rather than standard gasoline engines on sailboats? I would think standard gas engines would be easier and less expensive to repair.
Because gas is explosive and Diesel isn’t and diesel is a far more efficient fuel
So this is 6 months ago?
The Reasons Why Most Sailing Channels Videos Are Not In Realtime
ruclips.net/video/9QGd9JSxgaw/видео.html
Hopefully, pulling that engine has become childs play for you since the early days/videos.
Like/Share/Comment
Yeah it’s super easy
hello James. Thank you for the videos! They are great! Do you mind a question? Going back to your rudder issue on the Hawaii passage, is the hydrovane rudder insufficient to steer the boat? So how come it is able to steer it as all, when the boat rudder is functioning but not being used? Thank you!
🌈🌎😍❤️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️🛡️💋
These engines should have a normal radiator like a car does and no sea water used for anything. I swear, every sailboat channel has this crazy seawater in the engine problem. Forget this seawater cooling.. Dump that!
It had nothing to do with the heat exchanger and a radiator only works with air blowing across it
@@SailorJames ...wait, what? The water didn't come from sucking water into the engine to cool it? Oh, oh.. I did not know that. So where did it come from??
Hi do you need help to continue?
Hi, No I got it sorted 👍🏻
@@SailorJames. Hug my friend, I'm following you from Brazil
Sorry, I didn't understand, were you not allowed to go into a marina because you need to be insured for more than 5m kiwi?
I've watched so many sailing vids and I am personally afraid for myself and how I would "lose my shit" over these regulations that make no sense.
JAMES I HOPE YOUR HAVEING A FAT TIME WERE EVER YOU ARE AT THE MOMENT.
I DIDN'T REALISE YOUR MOTOR WAS ONLY A 2 BANGER.
I HOPE IF THEY FIX IT FOR YOU THEY DO THE BEARINGS TO AS OFTEN THE EXTRA FRICTION ON NEW PISTON AND RINGS OR EVEN JUST RINGS WILL BLOW THE BOTTOM END OUT AS THEY WILL BE JUST AS WARN AS THE TOP END.
SADLY 2 CYLENDERS DOSE NOT MEAN HALF PRICE OF DOING A 4 CYLENDER UP.
WHEN YOU SAID YOUR ENGINE WAS TOAST AGES AGO I THOUGHT ABOUT DOING A GO FUND ME FOR YOU TO GET A NEW ONE THEN FOUND OUT YOU WOULD BE SIX MONTHS AHEAD OF WERE WE WERE WATCHING AND YOU WOULD HAVE ALREADY HAD IT FIXED.
FOR SUCH A SMALL MOTOR THAT HAD THAT MUCH DAMAGE IN THE CYLENDERS AND NO DOUBT HEAD IT REALLY DID AN AMAZING JOB .
THEY MUST BE A PRETTY STRONG LITTLE ENGINE TO STILL BE RUNNING WITH HOW IT LOOKED ON THE INSIDE.
I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR VIDEO'S MAN THANKS A TON FOR THE GREAT ENTERTAINMENT OVER THE YEARS SO FAR.
If y’all aren’t following James on Instagram, what are you even doing?!?
Sorry to hear about the engine but at least you know what you’re dealing with. New rudder, new engine… idk how the sails are but if they still have plenty of life in ‘em you should be good to go for a while!
jesus half a year old video!
The Reasons Why Most Sailing Channels Videos Are Not In Realtime
ruclips.net/video/9QGd9JSxgaw/видео.html
It doesn't take a professional to compression check a cylinder.
If you are intelligent you hire a professional to confirm your suspicions
It’s New Zealand: let’s not confuse people with unofficial names
I respect the original settlers and always will.
Can’t you just get another policy for 2 million and the total of both would be 5 million (if ur progressive is 3 million) wouldn’t that be OK with the government
You have a sailboat, not a motor boat.
You haven’t done much sailing
Did you leave for your round the world trip knowing you had a sketchy engine? Really?
First of all, ships sailed around the world with no engines for centuries. Second, I didn’t have a sketchy engine. Sea water siphoned it’s way back in through the exhaust due to large seas, it happens. Really.
Some people need to read about Alberto Torroba.
@@SailorJames Then if you are forced to a 1 month delay due to holiday coming, just keep sailing like they did in the old days. Don't wait.
What about a 20hp long leg outboard bolted on the stern? Probably get that in yourself for cheep. Inboard is nicer for sure. Beta marine sells 14hp inboard for $2,500 - 16hp $2,700 - 20hp $3,000.
I don’t do “cheap” on my boat
@@SailorJames was just trying to help. Mocking me for auto correct error just means I unsubed. Good luck to you.
Thank You