i think Zeri proved exactly his point, her Q is a very low CD missile (like Ezreal Q), W a non projectile skillshot (like Lucian Q), E a dash (with CD reduction on Q hit, like Graves E)....
Riot already has a perfect caster marksman in Azir if they just do a few tweaks to his kit. I've always thought he should be an AD champion instead of AP, his soldiers attack with spears after all.
@@GY-bd9bo Qiyana, an elementalist, is an AD Assassin. Illaoi, uses magical tentacles summoned by her God, as a AD Juggernaut. Kalista and Hecarim, magical beings in the form of the undead, are an ADC and AD Juggernaut respectively. Jax, smacks people with a lamp, does some magic damage. Kai'sa does hybrid damage. Katarina throws knives, does magic damage. Lucian and Senna have magic guns yet do physical damage. Nidalee, throws her spear and mauls people, does magic damage. Yasuo, Yonne and Riven do physical damage despite having magic related techniques and weapons. Teemo poisons his enemies, a physical affliction yet does magic damage. Taliyah throws rocks at people yet is a mage. Zyra, ducks people with her plants yet does magic damage. You're argument isn't holding up, bud.
12:16 as an Azir enjoyer i must say that he is exactly what ur saying here, he is a mage that autoattacks with AP instead of AD, even the AS is the same as marksman, i think Azir is the only TRUE ap dmg marksman, coz cassio and ryze just spam a shit tone of abilities per second but Azir actually autoattacks to deal 70% of his dmg. Probbably the reason he is constantly getting nerfed, that sounds like a balancing nightmare
Yep and it's a shame they "Deleted" him from the game, I think his old kit was pretty unique and fun. I'm biased tho old Urgot was my first master 7 Rest In Peace old friend.
@@TheMycelle Old yorick was a total mess that didn't work on any level. You can't really call him an ADC caster because the whole point of his build was to spam all his abilities at once to get incredibly tanky and try do overwhelm the enemy before he ran out of mana.
I wonder if the new Marksman (being more of a "Shooter") will fall in a limbo or end up as a caster, since it will probably have a "permanently attacking" thing
@@hastur2905 She can be played Mid still, and isn't that bad at it. The fact that she's also a bot laner and a support, as well as a mid lane is just her being busyed in a meta which is favourable for her.
Passive: every time you cast you also auto attack twice, and also you have a 3 hit passive, and whenever you apply it you get back 30% missing HP and refresh all your cool downs, and also shoot them another 3 times, and also get a move speed bonus and go into stealth, an
I mean, It would be doable, just use a senna-kind thing with close to none A.S and a skill rotation where you can intercalarte those slow autos but without the souls mechanic, mabye something like ezreals pasive but instead of A.S you get ad for every skillshot landed and Then you can simply A.A them, slow but in to oblivion.
How about a character where they have a super slow slow auto attack but long attack range where there abilities when landed will give him a stack that once you have full stacks by landing all 3 basic abilities you can use those stacks to amp your next auto for massive damage your r should either be a passive effect with no cast able function, utility ult that has good mobility with a low cool down or an ult that marked one target so that your basic abilities now build twice as many stacks so your auto attack does even more damage
@@MrLuzakman I actually had no intention of buying him. Got him from a champ shard reroll. But I gave him a shot since I owned him and found I really loved his gameplay. It was kinda stupid and his design was awful but he was just such a blast to play. Easily my favorite Caster ADC.
What if you gave a champion a sort of...negative passive, were their auto attacks only do 90% of their damage (like kalista, when her oathswoarn is not near) but when they use an abilty it enables their auto attack back to 100% (sort of like a ranged riven ) ? that would be a new way to design a ranged ad caster without their auto attacks doing to much damage (the number could of course be fine tuned, if 90% proves to little of a downside and 100% on ability casts is too broken)
I designed something similar in this thread. Basically revolves around your abilities doing no damage (literally 0), but marking the targets hit, and every ability having a different hitbox. Each mark can then be consumed by an autoattack for a bonus effect, based on the ability that applied the mark.
That’s already how Lucian is with his double auto passive. It’s why his dps is so lackluster in the late game unless you have the mechanics to pilot him properly. Or do you mean like how riven’s ult is a massive AD steroid? If that’s the case Jinx kog ashe and xayah hit that role already with each of their auto enhancements.
@@alexmcfly31415 this is the best take I've heard so far. Ezreal requires you to hit your abilities, but you are meant to weave autos in between your abilities as well. This is the exact same for mages. You hit your abilities, and in between you auto and reposition. This idea really has promise IMO because it would require you to hit skillshots that then give you more gameplay options. Think like ivern Q or Vex R, but for more things say like Ms or shields or access to a short range dash for one of the abilities, and the others have damaging properties based on the marks the abilities could place. A champion that is a caster marksman, that does close to zero attack damage through autos unless they land the prerequisite skillshots first. It would be a really interesting concept imo and while you could still call it an ezreal clone, ezreal doesn't have to auto to deal damage. This ad, while having basically all missiles, would operate WAY differently in terms of gameplay.
@@alexmcfly31415 i dont know why but this gives me samira vibes, you do autos with her just to stack up your ult not to manly do dmg with them. though i add this
The newest ADC coming out next year is supposedly supposed to have a different auto attack mechanic which sounds very intriguing. (it’s designed by the designer or Jhin and Jinx)
@@tommydo7057 Kalista and Twitch can miss AAs too. Though I'm not sure for Twitch, I just had a few games where I saw Twitch players activating their ult and attacked an enemy that was far away and had high movement speed. I'm not 100% sure but his AAs do act different when he ults so I think you can sort of dodge them. Kalista just has this downside in her passive.
It generally depends, but i think that your definition is a bit suspect. There are a number of spellslingers Ezreal, Lucian, Senna, Varus and so forth, who in order to be played optimally rely on weaving spells and auto attacks for sheen procs. There is a reason DS Senna was strong besides the item being busted. That is something I'd say is key to making a caster marksman hybrid. edit: Thing is there are characters like Ziggs or Lux, who blur the line form the other direction as well, which can limit the gimmicks Riot could pull out, on top of the general necessity to design these characters now around the fact that there are champions, who can fly over from two screens away, while untargettable and oneshot youw ith their chogath ult sized Q of true damage.
These sorts of analyses always rely on the specific way we slice the data. I agree with you; fundamentally, what makes a caster marksman a caster isn't something about a kit's mechanical complexity or the power curve or anything like that, it's how much being effective depends on pressing QWER vs. focusing on right-clicking. Yes, there will never be another Ezreal, but there also shouldn't be, because we already have Ezreal. IMO, there are still *tons* of things you could do with caster ADCs, from ones whose attacks deal very little damage but significantly buff their abilities, to more purely AP Marksmen that do weird crit scaling conversions, to leaning into something like the Urgot direction and having an ADC that is a "tank" in the "Heavy Cannon Fire" sense of the word.
Yeah. Funnily enough my only pentakill in 10 years of League was in my very first game as Samira. Was in Nexus Blitz though so no requirement to learn how to lane with her.
@@arnoutvandenbulcke7053 If the creator of the video has a premiere scheduled you can access the video before it's posted thus making it possible to comment and like beforehand
Exactly, they could make an AD mage who's spells all scale from crit etc, but at the end of the day a marksman in league is defined by AA's. You could in theory just have the "AA" be a spell, like Cassio E or something, but it's just semantics at that point. I think Ezreal pretty much debunks this tbh he is a definite caster marksman.
Doesn’t Jayce already fit this niche to an extent? Hybrid artillery mage and skirmisher who only uses basic (gotta be distinct here since he has that 3 attack steroid) autos to harass melee matchups. Even then he uses the q-e even more with that range and damage.
I would point Varus as a Caster adc too, he was most of the time a on-hit marksman, but normally is way more relevant when he is strong as a caster marksman
6:50 Graves was a Lucian cl- now hold on a minute! Graves came out _before_ Lucian so Lucian was a _Graves_ clone! Get it right! D; (Great video regardless, tbh)
Passive: no bonus damage from critical strikes but instead increases the effect of marks. Marks can be consumed by an auto attack for bonus damage or by another spell to amplify the next mark. Q: Projectile shot. marked enemy recieves increased damage if consumed by AA (20%, 40%, 65%) W: Aoe spell. marked enemies are slowed(movement and AA) if consumed by AA (20%, 35%, 50%) E: backward dash with skill shot(caitlyn but farther skill shot). marked enemies take autos farther and reduces cooldown of basic skills if consumed (+100 range) (20%, 40%, 60%) R: for thematic. doesnt need to be another mark. combos WEQ or EWQ AA for burst WQE or QWE AA for damage + reposition QEW AA for catching people or dueling Q AA W AA E AA in any order for highest dps.
Ahh ADCs like Ezreal, Jhin, and Varus have a special place in my heart for being more ability involved than the other adcs. Their gameplay was fun and satisfying.
Passive: All abilities can crit for bonus damage, reduce crit damage with AA, refund mana on takedown Q; 13-5 seconds:Marks an Area that explodes after 3 seconds dealing massive damage and applying on-hit effects W:applies a debuff (-50% damage to you) to all enemies around you E;25-10 seconds: blink to a target location and deal ad damage to the farthest enemy in range while gaining physical vamp when hitting champions R ;15/ 12.5/ 10 seconds: projectile marks enemies hit for 5 seconds , dealing damage when hit by another ability, increasing effect with distance travelled, also shreds %armor until used, when used also reduces the remaining CD of basic abilities by 25% of remaining
the only way i can imagine a new caster marksman functioning is with a capacitor style gameplan: auto to charge up in power and release it as damage through abilities. damage is shifted from auto attacks to abilities, forcing you to cast to do damage but keep autoing to make the damage is high.
Well i thought about a concept but it borrows a bit of some other champs... P: You mark an enemy by hitting them with AA or Abilities (runaans does apply it as well), for 3 seconds Q: A Projectile which is single Target if it hits something, if it does not hit at max range it turns into AOE (only 33% damage) (AOE applies marks to everyone hit) W: Shoots out a barrage of projectiles (like Kai Sa) on every marked enemy. passive: turns 80% (or less) of AP into AD. E: You dash with the help of eg.: Rocket boots into the target direction, and while dashing the rocketflames burn enemies. R: Shoots a Metal Stake that impales the Ground, creating an electrifying field, which slows enemies. If an enemy CHamp is hit the Stake will impale the champ first then the ground, rooting them. (if you use qss he wont be rooted, but he still has that electric field coming out of him. None of the abilities have AP Scaling. Maybe add a second line to the passive. And Values may be adjusted for balance sake. I added the AP part for more build Diversity, whilst stil ensuring the champ stays AD. Cooldownwhise i dont know, depends on what every ability does i guess (like appliing on hit effects or crit). Whats your take on this?
He're an idea i took and arranged my way from another commenter on this video by the name of Sammyiel: A marksman that is able to charge his Q spell through time, like Amumu's bandages. W and E would be utility like with Jhin, and maybe an R for mobility would help, either to follow or flee when you don't have any Q's left. A kill-triggered reset giving back all your Q's could be a good idea, maybe a little OP but again Samira is... kinda balanced and works similarly with her R being up nearly 24/7. If kill-triggered doesn't work out, playing it cookie-cutter and reducing it's CD when it hits like Ezreal could work out as well. Maybe the last Q could also be a finisher or some sort, either through true damage or %health damage. This altogether feels a lot like a horrible jhin/ezreal hybrid, but other ideas can't come to mind for me right now
"Last Q being a finisher" So if you have only one charge of Q, it's a finisher? And then you wait, you regain one charge, and it's a finisher again? I don't know how that would work, you could just spam Q's to always have 1-2 in the kit and always have a finisher at hand. Or do you mean like Corki's R, where every N-th cast is empowered?
After many mini-reworks ,she is no longer weak mid-game. Her mid-game now is actually pretty decent thanks to Riftmaker and Nashors. She is only weak until lvl6.
@@walkelftexasranger She's not even weak all the way to lvl 6. With her E she has a very strong lvl 1, since it gives extra on-hit dmg and is an aa reset. She's very weak from lvl 2-5 though
Honestly, I feel like League's mechanical design is a big part of what makes it difficult to make a caster marksman; I know that Heroes of the Storm has a few different ways to do something like that since the Talent system gives you some flexibility in how you build per game. Junkrat and Hanzo are good examples of that, I think; Hanzo's got a high basic attack range but his basic attacks are really slow unless you take a specific (and risky since even if it's maxed out you can lose stacks if you die) talent, so it's often better to focus on his Q (a chargeable line skillshot) or W (a skillshot that breaks into five smaller projectiles when it hits terrain and bounces back) over his basics. Junkrat is a bit more utility-focused (his E sets down a bear trap that will lock someone in place for a bit and his W is the same kind of ability as Ziggs' Satchel Charge) but his primary source of damage is his Q, which is a grenade launch that bounces/has a bit of delay if it doesn't hit anything; since Junkrat has no resource meter it uses an ammo system. His basic attacks are average in speed and damage both, with the main benefit being that Junkrat's basics hit in an AoE (which you can make bigger by taking a late-game talent). Valla's another good example of that since she has more or less three different builds. She can take talents to improve her basic attacks (she plays very similarly to Vayne in that case), her W, Multishot (making her a caster that does damage in a cone area) or her Q, Hungering Arrow (which makes her very good at dueling and clearing objectives since it can do a lot of damage to a single target). I feel like if you wanted to try and do another caster marksman in League, you would need to do something similar to HotS' Nova. I'm aware that we just got Akshan who is a Marksman/Assassin like she is, but Nova's method is pretty different from Akshan's. Nova's basic attacks aren't super fast (and if you take a certain talent, they do a lot more damage and decrease the physical armor of heroes hit for a bit, but fire much slower) and the bulk of her damage typically comes from her Q ability, Snipe. You gain a stacking buff each time Snipe hits an enemy Hero with an additional damage bonus at max stacks, but if you fail to hit anything with it you lose all your stacks. Perhaps, translating that to League, you'd have a champion whose Crit can only apply to their main damage ability?
They are not. The game's systems just favor AA based marksmen far too heavily. I can't think of items that are the "perfect fit" for AD casters outside manamune, serylda's grudge and edge of night. Maybe a sheen item. Everything else must be borrowed from other sub-classes, which most likely mean they won't be as useful. They don't have a good mythic and doesn't help that Riot has been progressively turning every item into a crit item. Essence Reaver used to be an AD caster item. Doesn't help that when those builds do pop up, they get nerfed immediatly. Most notably Varus. Lucian and Jhin too often get tweaked to force them away from lethality back into crit. Ashe used to have a build with comet where she went Essence Reaver and Trinity Force. That too dissapeared. Riot just tries too hard to force the cookie-cutter late game hyper carry archetype down everyone's throat.
Borrowing items from other sub-classes doesn't mean they have to be a bad champ. Have you ever seen a well played Bard for exemple, even though he literally builds items from 3/4th of the other classes in the game? + The current/Previous meta of late season11 where everyone builds goredrinker and Divine sunderer, which are bruiser items. I'd be interested in other champs that build from multiple sources, Bard being so much fun to play even though i either get an S or a D+ on every game, but i don't think Riot would intentionally design something as such.
@@thelostsoul9446 Senna's itemisation has been a huge mess since the item rework. There are way too many situationally alright builds, while there is no really ideal build.
Then you get poor xayah who is both extremely ability extremely attack speed and extremely crit reliant leaving her with a bunch of items that kind of work but also don't give her everything she needs. Leading to a pretty awkward build path
@@dragonsreingsupreme1 Xayah is the unfortunate lovechild of ADC design ethnics, She relies on her abilties like all caster ADC, but she also needs crit to boost her damage, so she is funneled into buying Essence reaver and that's it.
I will say, samiras different playstyle is what makes my love the champ when compared to most adcs. Shes the only M7 adc I have and the fact that she feels like she has actual agency is what I think adcs need more of tbh.
here is an idea - how about a caster adc that uses water pressure, he's abilities and auto have increased potency the more water pressure he has, the pressure will slowly rise and will be reduced whenever he cast an ability or use an auto. so he is basically a frontloaded ad nuker that in order to be effective he needs to use his abilities when he has high pressure and then cools off for another rotation or try to finish targets with low damage autos.
@@tiggertime7265 more like an ad caster with a an additional bar that Regen much faster than mana and go down much faster as well. So more like energy but with increased damage the higher energy you have
Based on riot's post i guess the next camp will have something like an automatic gun as his q, but won't be able to aa (or at least with a very reduced efficiency), that way you get something that feels like a topdown shooter like enter the gungeon or something like that. I think it can be an interesting concept for a caster marksman
@@ashegner7464 true sounds like jhin... maybe make using abilities give more uses of auto attacks (so better to stack Haste instead of AS) or make the auto attacks be time gated and not bullet gated (so still better to stack AS so you can fire more times in that time frame)
@@jaishkhan7442 yea it is really hard to design a new caster adc. The first idea sound like lucian and the second idea would still just be a regular adc
I mean, riot kinda made a perfect AD caster accidentally conceptually but he does AP damage. His Q is a glorified skillshot auto-attack that deals high single target damage. His W is a get of me tool. His E is an “hey, im not done with you” and same goes for his passive and ultimate. Karthus. As for an other AD caster the thing is that there are also a lot of casters that basically have a Q that works a lot like an auto attack but with extra steps like ezreal. Talking about syndra and orianna with their balls respectively. Both kinda feel like glorified auto-attacks as well. Same goes for Taliyah’s Q. All the unique things you can think of already exist either in the caster MM class or in mages. The basic shapes of league lines and circles are covered by ezreal and karthus in the bot lane. When you want to go creative such as giving an caster MM Orianna Q it is gonna get weird. As for syndra not much could change. change her passive so that landing Q refresh W CD and landing W refresh Q cd. But it will still be difficult to balance. Taliyah Q could also maybe work and you have an interesting mechanic with her worked ground. Change her E to be an radius around her. Change her W to be a short dash that when on worked ground consumes the worked ground, travels further and at the end a knock back to still have an W that can proc her E. Idk im just spitballing and not creating anything new just thinking of other ways to use an other characters ability.
The Marvel Moba game has Yondu who is basically Oriana as a Marskman. Maybe something similar to him, where your auto attack is technically an ability, might work?
I think there's a number of reasons as to why this is the most popular category of the 4. 1. For one they feel incredibly satisfying to play once mastered as casting some flashy abilities will always look cooler than using your regular ol' auto attacks to deal the brunt of your damage. 2. They also for the most part seem to have decent mid game or in lucian's case strong early game if the circumstances allow for him to get close and personal. 3. Currently ( at least in my opinion ) crit items fail to empower auto attacks up until you get your fourth item. It's not reliable enough to deal good dps and still makes you sacrifice an item slot to buy Infinity Edge as you don't pack as much of a punch anymore with crits due to the changes. This also plays into the second point of having worse mid game than their spell caster counterparts. Raw AD is just more relevant on champions who use their abilites more often ( unless they have certain on hit properties which allow them to crit like Samira's Q ). The best example to back this up is poor old Twitch. His abilities have next to no AD scalings, making him more dependant on auto attacks than any other marksmen in the game. While he at least has his E it's still inferior to the AP version, which not only gives him more damage on that ability but also makes his posion a very concerning form of damage. Thus it makes his Crit gameplay very toxic ( no pun intended ) to play. To an extend all auto attack crit champions suffer from this but Twitch is the best example. 4. They are more meta and arguably scale just as well as a Jinx or Twitch. As stated before because of these benefits they are a more relevant force to reckon with come mid game which gives the ADC player more immediate agency over the game and in a game that gets progressively faster with each year there's no wonder these champions are very well liked among ADC players
I still cannot fathom as to why adcs whine about crit items and lack of defensive items. You get to have the HIGHEST DPS IN THE GAME AS A CLASS. You get to have the SAFEST WAY OF DEALING DMG. Since you cannot dodge auto attacks (not looking at graves) If you are so underpowered why are you still being played at a competitive level of game since fuck me if all of the above is not true then yup ziggs lux and syndra apc
@@Helikite Pro play is a completely different enviroment to soloq. ADC players are allowed to reach their power spike and teammates understand the importance of you as a damage source. In soloq however things are quite different. Random fights ensue constantly, making it difficult to reach even 3 items before one team has gained an advantage of some sort and snowballs out of control. It's also far less coordinated which means you aren't as likely to get any form of peel at all from anyone on your team despite your potential dps being one of the highest in the game. And I think you missed the point of my comment. Ability users such as Lucian, Samira and Ezreal have consistently been very solid picks in soloq because of the reasons stated in my comment. ADCs with higher mid and early game agency like Tristana feel good to play and for those champions the items function as they should. The criticism is directed towards pure autoattackers such as Jinx or Twitch. If you've ever played Twitch before you'll understand why crit items feel very underwhelming up until your fourth item. It's also worth noting that these complaints are present because the game has gotten faster, therefor delaying the item spike for these champions by an entire item, when it was already considered late game to have 3 crit items completed, makes it really difficult to have a meaningful impact in the game when your only job is to deal damage. With a faster meta and a higher likely hood for games to spiral out of control with the enormous snowballing issue in the game, it causes a lot of frustration when you do play something that isn't a 2 item powerspike good such as Irelia
I think I got some design to a new caster marksman. We just need to recover old Urgot's Q+E combo and tune it. Imagine a Q that is a skillshot but it gets autoaim into marked enemies(literally old Urgot's Q but applies on hit effects), a high range skillshot on W that deals damage and marks the first target it hits, some sort of dash on E and something like an orbital strike as ult (GP's ult but instead of waves it's a big chunk of area damage and marks enemies hit). Combine that with a pasive that increases your damage over an enemy every time you hit him with a cap and you got it.
Here are possible design choices for caster marksmen: * Basic spells are weak, but get amplified in power after you attack several times * Spells that apply actual attacks on hit targets
You know what’s amazing. Akshan fits All of the Marksman categories. Q damage, E disengage/engage, R damage I.E. Caster marksman. Also he is built with Crit, and is On-hit
I have two idea for ADC, none was designed specifically as casters tho. you can decide Kaliban - The Eye of Zaun (Lorewise he is bounty hunter, and basically Zaun counterpart of Caitlyn) P - Lifeform Scanner Kaliban periodically sweeps his surrounding area, pinging locations of all nearby enemies, regardless of their visibility status. Pings only show location, they don't revel nor expose them.scan cooldown and range improves with levels Q - Precise Aim Kaliban pulls out his sniper rifle and shots one bullet in straight line, dealing 100% total AD to first enemy hit. This applies lifesteal, can critically strike for 100% crit damage modifier and apply on hit effects. *Cooldown of this ability is reduced by attack speed, at max rank this ability cost 0 mana* W - Smoke screen Drops down a smoke granade which creates vision obscuring pillar of smoke for 2-5 seconds. while smoke lasts Kaliban gains movement speed E - Hunter Seeker *passively* - Kaliban on hit applies Marking Rounds to hit enemy champions and large/epic monster. Marking Rounds revel their target for 5 seconds. *actively* -Kaliban deploys Hunter Seeker missile that flies in straight line and explodes on first enemy hit, base + 50% AP dealing magic to all targets in medium area, while slowing them for 20% for 1s *If Hunter Seeker flies within 1000 units range of Market target, it will active guidance system and home in onto closest enemy tagged by Marking Rounds. While hunter seeker is homing in, affected Marking Rounds duration is extended* R - Raven Guard Kaliban deploys a Raven Guard Sentry which has 5/6/7 hit points, 1.0 attack speed, 550 attack range and dealing 25/35/45% total AD + 50% AP physical damage on hit. Raven Guard also provide True Vision within it's attack range, and apply on hit effects with 33% effectiveness, including Marking Rounds for 2s Only up to three Raven Guards can be deployed at once.
I mean, Corki is in such a tight spot that his Q doesn't even do that much damage after early game. It's basically a Utility because it gives vision, W is his escape and E is more utility and his ult is poke damage. At this point he is a Auto-attack Mage. Heck, he even plays in mid.
corki is a late game champion, he is doing tickle damage because you're focusing on the early game. get lvl 16 and hit an empowered R, Q, auto and watch them die in less than a second
Concept: Assassin Markaman (a caster obv Passive: If their abilities hit out of vision, they deal aditional damage, scaling by level. Kills reduce 15% CD on every single ability Q: Dashes on a targeted direction, shooting three projectiles towards their closest enemies, giving priority to champions, can hit on minions. Aply on-hit effects W: Throws three projectiles on a cone shape, dealing phisical damage and slowing their target E: Activates a camouflage for a short period of time (Like Kai'Sa's E). After this effect ends, they get aditional attack damage R: If they are camouflaged (bush, E, etc.), and there's a enemy close to them, the Champion jumps towards that champion, then shoot their weapon on the enemy face, dealing larges amounts of damage, if they kill with this ultimate, they can re cast it to dash towards a targeted direction
Corki is an incredible marksman. True, you get a lot more AP than AD, but AP doesn't crit. ALso, you get a lot more from one pair of pen boots, than a lethality item, because a lot of champions don't have natural MR scaling. Itemising vs a corki is not easy. In adition he gets some insane ratios and sustained sheen procs
Needs a small rework or number change to his base abilities, since it sucks ass. Q: Really ass ratio + speed. You literally can walk out of it even without boots. The 6s reveal doesn't have any value either. W: Long ass CD + speed. The dmg portion is again, really mediorce. E: Why would a class that relies on constant kiting, have an ability that force them to face tank head on for a few seconds to get any value? Insta rework.
@@duytran9086 6s reveal is taking out the vision game out of the oponent's arsenal. But agreed, could do with a swifter projectile. W has a look cooldown, but it is also an uninterruptible dash with a very short windup. E is a bit pitiful and a relic of the past (black cleaver woohoo) MR shred always helps though
Don't know if this would count as a caster marksman, but here's my random idea for a champ: Passive: Basic attacks restore mana Q: skillshot projectile that damages minions it passes through and ends on contact with a champion, dealing X damage to that champion. (main source of damage, very spammable, close to ez Q) W: skillshot projectile that blinds and applies an MR and armor-shredding debuff in a small aoe at short range. (think Annie's ability range and aoe the size of a Karthus Q) E: shockwave emanates from this champ knocking all champions within the radius back to the radius' edge and dealing damage. (Similar to Janna ult but damage instead of healing and a smaller radius) R: For 3 seconds Champion gains True Sight in a large radius around them, giving them vision even into unwarded nearby bushes. Champion gains a small movement speed, attack speed, and ability cooldown buff. For the duration of the ult, the champion can move while performing basic attacks and casting abilities
It feels weird hearing talk about caster marksmen without a single mention of quinn, Someone who is primarily working around her cooldowns and her mark while still very clearly still being a marksman.
I think everybody has just forgotten about her like i never see her in any games maybe like once in 40 or 50. And as you can clearly see she is a failed experiment that riot wanted to create.
@@amandaslough125 prerework Quinn was more of an ad caster then now her abilities all are auto attack enhancers except her q which most adcs have something to poke with but they all give something to the auto attacks
My own classification of all marksmen: Crit: Caitlyn, Draven, Jinx, Kindred, Quinn*, Tristana, Twitch, Xayah On-hit: Ashe, Kalista, Kog'maw, Teemo*, Vayne Hybrid: Aphelios, Jhin, Kai'sa, Miss Fortune, Senna, Sivir, Varus Caster: Corki, Ezreal, Graves*, Lucian, Samira * *bot it's not its primary role* It may look like there are almost no caster, but that's not because they design so few, it's because bot lane is the role with the smallest champion pool in general. Only problem I see is that they would feel like Corki or Ezreal. But honestly, playing any auto ADC feels equally the same except 2 or 3 mechanics. The best for me are hybrids, it's a good mix between both. I also enjoy making some auto attack ones into hybrids with some buikds, like Kog'maw or Twitch. Although those are more like AD/AP hybrids
what about something like a mirror champ think Gauche from black clover but instead of using it for magic type techniques have the dmg ramp up depending on bounces for mirrors, the abilities place or change mirror locations with maybe a quick escape using a mirror, enemies could possibly break them or just be forced to watch for multiple angles like against a zoe. the ult could deploy multiple mirrors or have active mirrors track on a target. so i guess Q= magic missile that can bounce through or off mirrors, W= place a mirror, E= escape through a mirror( like a portal hop) and the R= circle of mirrors or single target focus. i guess the biggest balance issue would be the location swapping and q pathing but put a limit such as needs LOS to function so no mirrors over terrain
When it comes to making a new caster Marksman, you could go for a design simlilar to Stacraft's Siege Tank. Would basically be AD Xerath, having high ranged, aoe burst, but only when he's sieged up, otherwise being weak when it comes to damage. Would be the no mobility but aoe version on Ezreal.
Not a single person in league wants to/likes getting dmged from nowhere. The map is too small for that to work first of all. Second of all it’s pretty toxic considering you would need a guard to not get blown away by talon or camille.
I personally consider caster marksmen to be marksmen that weave abilities as part of their core damage profile. Basically, anyone that would build essence reaver or triforce in season 9. The archetype lost some of its definition in season 10 with the lack of a crit/haste mythic, and few crit/haste items at all.
It sounds very abstract but with passive that allow stat conversion (vlad getting ap from HP on example) maybe it could be doable but it would definitely be very hard to balance + it would likely lead to that character having an extremely niche build which would remove the freedom to adapt based on the enemy team that riot is pushing with the items rework and the recent additions.
maybe something like "giving bonus ad based on cdr" ? most high ad items do not give cdr so they would not end up with too much ad, since they are forced into another build
An idea came to me while watching what if they made a caster but based it around something like oriannas passive, where using an ability empowers their auto attack. It could be like a stacking system where if you land an ability (or use your dash) it adds a stack and then the next auto consumes the stacks to deal extra damage. Obviously dont let it stack infinitely, give it a max of 4-6 stacks. This way the adc has to choose between waiting for his cooldowns to get those couple extra stacks or to use the stacks now (and possibly get some on-hit cdr at least for the dash to continue fighting). The abilities should be weak though so you dont get half healthed with 2 abilities and then the auto finish you off. I reckon it could feeel similar to jhin where your building up to one big auto to finish them off.
Hot take: "There's no pure caster marksman, who truly and only belongs in that category." Yes, Ezreal is the one who fulfils the criteria of a caster marksman the best and there's no future champion who will be as close as him... BUT(T) even Ezreal slides with one foot in another role. He is also a mage (not quite sure whether artillery or burst tho)... He relies on his abilities, 3 out of 4 abilities deal magic damage and besides his Q every other ability of his has great AP ratios. With his play style shifted to maxing W and E he is a potent solo-lane mage.
@14:30 Actually you will have the opposite problem, if anything: AD casters stealing OP fighter items (it's happening right now w/ other classes abusing Goredrinker, but there's an even better example from the past: season 6 Sterak's Gage and it being built by marksmen because the shield was based on max hp instead of bonus hp). This problem is why AP bruisers basically *cannot* have nice items to build because if they did, mages, especially battlemages would abuse the absolute hell out of them.
Shieldbow on Yas and Yone, and Irelia semi-frequently takes it aswell. AD caster (ez) goes fighter items, but Samira doesn't, and neither does lucian. Which AD casters, excepting Ez, are stealing op items, if I can ask?
@@satsiretaffer4619 AD carries building lethality (Assassin items in this case, but the point stands, items not designed for marksmen being built on marksmen). I referenced OP fighter items most because of Goredrinker and it's widespread use by other ADs (assassins and skirmishers). The comment about having AD casters stealing fighter items was more than there being good AD caster items in the game would result in that class getting to enjoy the best of both their class intended items and of what fighters, other marksmen, and assassins also have available to build, and most likely you'd see them built 1-2 fighter items for their defenses along with other pure offensive items because that would give the best mix of damage and survivability. This was exactly why the first version of sterak's was abused by marksmen and why goredrinker is being abused by slayers right now.
My favorite adc to play is Lucian because he feels the most fluid and balanced character in the adc role. Although I can see how it was hard to balance him properly because of his solo lane dominance
Zed seems like he fits this catogery over an assasin yes he is meelee but all his abilties are about hitting ranged abilities and deleting enemies from range while talon and qiyana have to move to physically escape. While zed just presses W or R. He feels too safe for whats supposed to be an all or nothing class.
thats why i view him not really as an assain....sure he can delete you, but he plays more like an ad mage. The issuie is that people do not really respect his range and play against him as if he were a traditional assasin, and then they feel like there was no counterplay when they get punished for it
Zed is basically the same as Ahri, someone who plays the laning phase as a mage and the mid-late game as an assassin. Zed and Ahri both have incredibly safe laing phase for their respective class, Zed - an assassin with ranged poke and cs, and Ahri, - a hybrid mage with incredibly mobility, they both try to poke their opponents in laning phase as much as they can til they can finish their opponents with one last final blow. Out of laning phase, after having one or two items they start to roam and make picks as much as possible. Only difference between them is Ahri's teamfighting while sucks is still better than Zed's and Zed's dmg is just far superior compared to Ahri's
Having come from Smite, there are a few caster ADC's in the game. They cannot even build physical ADC items (a restriction in Smite as it restricts offensive items depending on if their magical or physical champs). First is Sol, who has a Passive that increases her attack speed and the ratio on AA's from magic as she lands more abilities and AAs. Her Q is a steroid that drops a small AoE that deals low damage as enemies stand in it and charges her passive and applies a HoT on her. Her w is an "empowered auto" that pulses out a firewave upon making contact with an enemy champ, terrain, or reaching max attack range and slows all enemies hit. Her E is an MS increase channel that, upon reaching max duration, then turns her into a Dmg and CC immune flare, but also reduces movement speed while in such a state. Her Ult is 8 small blasts in a slightly delayed trail that deal moderate damage and knock back enemies from the blast point. Second is Chronos. His passive is a time wheel that ties into his w with 4 segments on it, and also grants him magical power the longer the match goes. His Q is a small AoE with high damage and a low CD. His W is both an attack speed and MS steroid. The AS is immediate, and the MS increases over the course of a second or so before maxing out. it will also stop the time wheel for the duration for the duration of the steroid, providing 1 of 4 buffs, those being; All abilities cast take no mana, increased ratio on autos from power, increased power, and a HoT for 10% of your maximum health. His E is straight line ability that, when hitting an enemy, slows them to a stun over about .75 seconds and dealing damage. His ult will rewind him (similar slightly to Ekko ult) resetting him to where he was and the health he had at the time, and resetting all his cooldowns. Finally is Olorun. His passive gives him "magical crits" that hit for 1.20x damage, and the crit chance increases with magical power. His Q is a straight line ability that pierces minions and can be charged for increased range. His W gives him an ATK spd steroid, and will store a charge that, upon reactivation separate from the steroid, Will cause all the charge to unleash a flurry of fireballs in a small area with diminishing damage for each quick hit. His e is a small knock back in an AoE around him that slows enemies hit, and applies a small HoT and protections of both types for a few seconds. His Ult is a TIme Dilation field where his own animations are sped up by 1.25x, and enemy animations are slowed down to .7x animation and movement speeds. These are mostly made by how their passives change magical power into how a traditional ADC uses AD.
Enit, ionian (title) Ionian spirit: on-hits from auto attacks deal half damage, though they also apply debuff to enemies that interact with Enits abilities. Q: send two bolts out in a V shape that then converge at original cast point (Think opposite vel'kos). These bolts apply full on-hit damage. If either bolt hits an enemy afflicted with ionian spirit it does extra damage. Cool down is based on attack speed. (Stops early game spam) W: create a delayed aoe explosion that slows and slows attack speed of those caught inside. If afflicted with ionian spirit they are instead stunned shortly then have the slow after. E: create a shield around enit, absorbing x damage and gaining movespeed. Those afflicted with ionian spirit only deal half damage to the shield and give additional movespeed to enit on attacking him. R: enit emits a pulse in a direction causing each enemy to take damage. Each champion hit afflicted with ionian spirit explodes dealing x damage in a circle around them and are afflicted with debuff that makes enit deal full on hit damage with auto attacks for 5 seconds. A ten minute rough draft of a caster marksman
ezreal being balanced has to be a joke, so many items had to be changed because of him, he defined entire metas in the past. This shitshow of a champ is so broken XD
and then you realize he dies in a fart, does less damage than just about every other damage oriented champ in the game, and is less mobile than most high mobility champs now. but sure. so broken.
Ez isnt what is broken, muramana is what makes him strong. That item alone gives like 70 ad and allows him to build frozen heart to reach around 100 ad from it, also sheen items are pretty much a must on him due to the way his q works.
@@einjharrelraca “Dies in a fart.” So you’ve never played an ad champ against frozen heart emerald. And before you say anything about him getting one tapped by mages, remember that all adcs are about as susceptible if not more.
@@long_something a frozen heart ezreal dies just as fast as any other adc. His frozen heart wont save him from (insert assassin/bruiser here). Just now instead of the 0/4 zed overkilling him by 3x him healthbar, he's only overkilling him by 1.5x his healthbar.
@@einjharrelraca Frozen gauntlet Ezreal was one of, if not the best users of the item because it was a massive early powerspike that made Ezreal able to 1v1 most ADC or even more annoying, top laners so your support could gank lanes when you switched lanes. Ezreal is broken because he is literally the perfect AD, his ONE weakness is a lack of Crit burst, but he can even have that if you build it.
In theory, if you turned a Marksman’s auto attacks into a channel (kinda like if Senna autos went full Fiddlesticks W), that could be enough of a middle ground to build a Caster Marksman. The main passive could be that, plus converting attack speed into ability haste and either allowing abilities to crit chance or have crit chance act as a damage lever, like Jhin passive or Xayah E.
I have this weird idea of a marksman that has a passive that drops items from slain enemies and their spells revolve around using those as ammunition with no upper limit. Oh and their ult consumes all the ammunition and turns them into a turret gatling gun.
I wonder why the only mention of lethality ADs was a brief nod to Sivir. MF and Varus should be in the Caster Marksmen category too, even if their job isn't as well defined as Lucian and Ez.
What if we had a caster marksman that moved with wasd? Passive would be that autoing places a mark that lasts an amount of time and is consumed by landing an ability. Consuming it would refund some of your strafe resources, some mana, and deal some bonus damage. Only champions can be marked, and multiple can be marked at a time. Instead of q, you could have the left click be a controllable missile similar to yuumi q that applies on hit effects. Instead of w, you have a dash on the roller on your mouse. Instead of a cooldown put it on a resource bar like rumbles heat. Using it will have you strafe either towards or away from your cursor location depending on the direction you spin the wheel, and you can use it as long as you have resource for it. You can still auto and use abilities while strafing. Right click will be to auto like normal, but it will replace e if you double click. Doing so will shoot a bolt that will ricochet once off the first obstacle hit, whether it be terrain or an enemy. The ricochet direction is angle dependent. Both the main shot and the ricochet will apply on hit effects, but the ricochet will be slower and deal less damage than the main shot. Replace r with space bar. Using your ult will grant you vision of your marked targets while it is activated. It's a channel like jhin ult, so you can't move while using it. Your vision will zoom out on the map while casting, and you'll have 1 second to make your first cast. You shoot a missile in the direction of your choosing (it damages minions and champions) If you hit a marked target, the missile stops and you have 0.5 seconds to redirect the missile. As long as you hit a marked target, you can continue to redirect until all marks are consumed. You can cancel the channel at any time. Not sure if balanced, but you could make a kind of strafing trick shooter.
I believe you can make another adc caster but more unique. My idea would be to make the adc caster also shape-shifter where they can alternate between single target damage or aoe debuff and small damage. Idea is similar to ezreal where q is a skill shot that deals on hit damage but also their e place a clone like zed but that can be harm and last forever but will die if too far away and that clone also launches a q but for less damage until max rank where it will deal full damage and the w will switch. Q turns into an aoe damage that heals when a champion is hit but heals less the more champions it hits(will heal 100% from 1 champion and more champions hit the heal will decrease to 5%) and e instead of copying q will do nothing and instead will detonate slowing based on how much ad you have when you use e again in aoe form but it will dash in the direction you choose. And for the ult and aoe knockback that changes you back in to single target if in aoe form or a a skill shot that applies and amplfying slow and creates a clone in front of the target but staying in single target form. Honestly would make word document of each ability in detail
I mean, they did tease a champ with different Auto attacks on the roadmap, maybe a guy (or a girl, idk) that actually has some kind of ammo system and has a minigun? That would be.... interesting, to say the least. Wether it works out or not it's up to the champ and the players.
@@sakutaro3musik486 They wanted to rebuild AA for this champ. Jhin, graves, kalista etc. have it modified not rebuild. They are going to throw away the AA idea and make another one as i assume.
@@sakutaro3musik486 I think it might be a "charge mechanic" because of the eletricity-related images we got for the champ, so yeah, kinda like Jhin or Graves.
Ok this will be a long one but I've thought for a while so bare with me so and adc with a passive causing him to have 50% attack speed recovery so the first auto would be a regular auto but it would take twice the time to fire out another so you'd either have to auto cancel with abilities or auto once after abilities. Q would be the main source of damage being like a spammable maybe 4 second scaling to 2 second ability cooldown its a projectile similar to Ezreal but thinner and faster, doing damage and slows for like 5% W would be another skill shot but much thicker and slower that pierces minions and monsters and champions damaging and marking them all (not much damage) then any character marked by w is hit by q they will be rooted for like 1.5 scaling to 2 seconds and the mark will be consumed (cooldown 15 scaling to 11) E is a fun one, pressing e would create a gadget on the ground at the cursor and he can have three on the ground at a time (with a range of like standard auto attack range so not too far) and after about 6 seconds the gadget would activate allowing you yo click on it and dash to it releasing a small ring of damage where you are and where you dash to and marking them with W mark (enemies can walk over these gadgets to destroy them and gain maybe 15 gold for doing so (cooldown 8 scaling to 6 seconds) R causes all marked enemies after a delay (3 seconds) to release a ring of energy that damages and roots all nearby enemies but not themselves (marked enemies can still be hit if they are near other marked enemies and minions and monsters marked also release the charge) Idunno who he/she is thematically but I'm thinking like a gadgeteer from piltover or zaun So there it is. My humblest attempt to create a unique caster marksman, even though he does kinda seem a bit like ezreal idk. what do you people think? P.S ty for reading Its a bit long for a comment
many caster marksmen use projectiles and linear projectiles that originate from them, so one way to make a unique caster marksman have ground targeted abilities that lack a projectile. Also many caster marksmen are defined by ability to take quick shots over and over and keep moving, so if you made a caster that was all about setting up zones and dedicating time to build up zones of threat, that would differentiate them Another way is to allow them some method of detaching the source of their damage from their own position while still maintaining an importance on positioning. For instance if they could craft a puppet of sorts that they can cast their abilities from. Perhaps the puppet is their shadow or their spirit (which would help keep the concept falling into the "my pet is more important than me" trap) and has free movement by has less range like 300, but u can have it dash to ur targets, and ofc cast abilities from it. Another method is to give them very short range, but landing abilities gives them stacks to increase their basic attack range Ive made quite a few kits, and 1 features a voodoo archer who can push out her spirit and attack from different angles with it. Once they have landed enough cursed attacks on the enemy they can pull the ENEMY spirit which is connected via a tether. If they shoot a projectile thru any tether it deals damage. Additionally they can set traps which apply hard CC to enemies and their Spirits, and they can make any spirit they wish dash to a target point.
Here's my Idea and Abilities for Caster Marksman.. i hope you notice this Vars.. Q ability: A spamable long-range instant cast projectile bullet that shoots sorta like lasers that converts attack speed into physical damage and can also crit just like a regular basic attack (Cd: 3 seconds) W ability: drops a smoke grenade that is a projectile that deals burst damage that explodes on contact with enemies or walls, and blinds enemies it hits in an aoe and will still get blinded if they stay in the smoke, the smoke lasts for 3 seconds and deals tick damage target in the smoke.. Slows enemies for 90% for 1 second and All enemies it hits will give the enemies get a debuff, and the debuff will make you and your team see those said heroes even if they aren't in vision for 6 seconds.. and all physical damage that they will receive from him and his teammates with that said duration will be amplified (I don't care how much since I'm just suggesting here.. hahaha) and still explodes in max range even if he didn't hit enemy champions or walls. if enemies enters the smoke they'll only get the blind and the tick damage in the smoke the burst damage because of explosion and the debuff won't work.. and unlike the other abilities in this kit that converts attack speed into damage. This ability acts like a real basic attack making it's projectile speed faster when you buy attack speed items.. (Cd: 12-11-10-9) E ability: a slow dash that is also an untargettable at the same time, but you can still cast abilities and basic attack during that said dash and untargettability. During the dash, the cast range of the all abilities but his E ability and his basic attack will increase during the dash. The ability doesn't scale off of any stats but only reduces the cooldown and increases the cast range of all of his other abilities but the E ability per level.. Because all of his spells scales in stats and is too OP if this ability also scales off of stats.. It's a very slow dash so don't use it as a get out of jail free card despite it's decent range because it's meant to be used offensively, and even defensively... Just don't use this ability to escape.. because believe me.. IT'S VERY SLOW! It's only 5% faster than his movement speed but it's one of the slowest dashes despite it having a decent range... Also you can press the skill again if you wanna stop.. (Cd: 18-17-16-15 seconds per level) Passive: is a double basic attack that only works when you cast your spells The first basic attack is like your q ability but it's basic attack, they both have the same range as the q ability and unlike regular basic attacks, it's dodgeable. But to compensate for that. It's also an instant cast aoe bullet that also shoots like a laser compared to your regular basic attacks, and the second attack in your passive. The second attack is when you throw a mini grenade that deals a small circular aoe damage that also slows and deals more damage the less hp the enemy has and reset the q ability when the second basic attack hits. (I intentionally made the Q ability super low on cooldown since you can cancel your second basic attack). Both double basic attack enjoys crit scaling and both attacks deal stronger damage than the regular basic attack.. 2nd passive: your basic attacks won't scale off of attack speed since you're scaling attack speed with your abilities, not your basic attacks Ultimate: it's a global ability that throws a huge and fast grenade in a decent aoe range that also converts attack speed into physical damage, deals more damage the smaller the enemy's hp has, it still deals huge damage when it hits but it deals stronger damage when enemy's hp is lower.. and the farther the grenade hits the bigger his damage gets.. and can technically one shots most low health/durability enemy champions even if they had full health in the late game when you successfully hit those said enemies across the map. (Cd: 180-150-120 seconds scales with level) Ultimate Passive: when enemy's hp turns below 15-20-30% hp (scales with level) you and your teammates will see them on the map and everytime you kill someone, your current ultimate cooldown will reduce to 20%. the champions killed by your ult also counts. Champion lore- He's a champion from Zaun, He's an elf, but got experimented upon.. he lost almost all of his magical ability and mobility along with his long ears in exchange for power and a unique ability that can sense people who are injured. He still is weak in durability and strength and even if he had that said unique ability the scientist still deemed him useless (the stats the scientist wanted from him so that he can be what the scientist deemed as perfect weapon and a perfect elf counterpart unlike those typical dark elves, and the scientist wanted and elf with were elves with strength and durability.) That's why the scientist thrown him away like trash.. He uses what the scientist has given to him that's why he became a mercenary in Zaun.. and the elves is disgusted at him because he's the perversion of the real elves because he doesn't have the long ears and is buffer and had way too many scars compared to the regular elves who are slim and clean. That's why he hated the real elves with a passion... he trained so hard to become what the scientist wanted from him, and grenades are his favorite.. he wanted to kill the scientist that experimented on him so that he can conquer his trauma but alas, Dr. Mundo already beat him to it.. He still has magic but is extremely weak and he's stronger than regular elves because of the experiment and training. He might be stronger and buffer than well trained humans but not enough to be called a perfect weapon. And is surviving while hiding his true identity from the world. Specially elves because of the trauma he had.. not being able to conquer it.. ° ° To be continued. ______________________________ I wanna put a lore/story on his spells but I'm not making a champion, I'm just giving suggestions.. i would give you the lore for them if you see this and like it, but bruh.. you're right.. it's so hard making a caster marksman.. and this is the best i can do.. My idea for this Caster Marksman is to make all of his spells to scale on attack speed while regular basic attacks don't... Don't get me wrong, he still deals huge damage with basic attacks. BUT relies heavily with abilities since you don't have the attack speed to basic attack your way out. Since his abilities scales off of attack speed and not basic attacks.. That's why i came up with these abilities and passive. To be honest i want him melee in the first place because it would be perfect with his E.. i want his E to like.. be Ranged while if you don't use your E, then you're Melee and it's the same with his passive (the passive turns his basic attack ranged.. and vise versa if there's no passive..) and his melee basic attack will obviously be backed up with a dedicated passive for his melee attacks. And will also work out with the lore of this hero that I've thought of.. I am thinking that it would be badass if he uses 3 weapons-(Sniper, grenade and a Dagger) but alas.. you said it's a caster marksman.. hahaha
I mean with how wonky passives are now anyways, they could just build one that prevents the champ from being able to build too good of an AA so they can balance out the skills. An example could be: an auto that's effectively an ability itself, perhaps it's a charging auto that scales by reducing charge time with movement, casting spells, or scales the charge time down with CDR. Could also be a charged weapon where you have to take aim first, which changes the attack cadence to fire > aim/charge > fire and so on - in this version maybe you can choose with the charge shot to have a really strong auto, or it interacts with the skills which consume the charge. They've shown they aren't afraid to break a few things in the champ design process or mess with the game engine itself to get things working, so anything is really possible, it would just feel very alien compared to the rest of the game like Aphelios did - I mean the guy gets his own UI.
.... ill give it a shot. Passive: each time champion dashes he places a shade that last 12 seconds. If in range shades also autoattack. q: You dash a distance. w: you fire a distance in front of you a aoe projectile that marks them with an on hit effect for some amount of time. e: you dash towards another shade. R: your shades now have infinite range and you can dash to them 3 times. Like. I'm not sure if its a caster really but its something.
A hybrid, much like Sivir, since they both have builds that exploit their ability damage and their basic attacks. Varus is a hybrid of caster and on-hit basic attacker, with a spectrum of full caster being lethality, half basic attacks half caster with AP, and full basic attacks with on-hit.
so i was thinking of a concept from a mobile MOBA game I used to play. Basically this adc would be rather like a normal long-ranged attacker, but with a twist being 1. he can't crit, his crit changes to ad and 2. the brunt of his damage would come from his long-ranged snipes. So he have this gun that needs to aim for a while before being completely precise (otherwise it would just go off randomly), has insane range (artillery ult range) and have a bullet mechanic. He needs to max the ability to get more charges. One ability lets him put indestructible wards that gives true sight in an area, one gives him a brief invisibility while inactive (hugging a wall), revealing him whenever he use autos or offensive abilities. Ult lets him dash a small distance (on a regular ult cooldown) and passively slows enemies hit by his first ability. Credit goes to Elsu in Arena of Valor, the champion that has all of this in his kit
Why wasn't akshan mentioned in this video isn't he exactly the monstrosity you're describing? A ranged ad assassin with heavy damage in both abilities, utilities, and autos?
an example of a character that would be an interesting caster marksman might be this, not saying the numbers are balancedbut just the general idea. passive - compounding dread, each successful auto marks target up to 3 times. stacks effect w,e,r. autos have .5 scaling Q - Branching destruction, launches 3 line projectiles in a v shape at close range which closes in the longer you send the ability till its a single line slightly wider than a single shot. applies on hit effects. target(s) have 3 stacks of compounding dread deal bonus damage in a very small circle encompassing target. 4/2.5/1.5 sec cooldown 70/75/80% ad scaling W- wicked strafe, line damaging projectile that dashes caster in opposite direction of blast. enemies hit by blaster are ignited. if enemy has 3 marks and is hit by blast knock back target if they hit a wall deal extra damage and stun for .25 sec. if 3 stacks enemy is hit by caster during during dash enemy is stunned for duration of the dash and is knocked back slightly farther than character. (imagine poppy dash) 10 sec cooldown. shot 80% ad, into wall deals 50%, hit by caster 60% ad scaling E- murderous intent, circle targeter places glowing area on floor which explodes after 2.5 seconds, slowing enemies caught inside. pressing E after a short delay while Murderous intent is active detonates the ability early. if enemies have 3 stacks then feared from center of ability not slowed 12/10/8 sec. cooldown 80% ad 20%ap /90%ad 25%ap /110 ad 25%ap R- tentacular touchdown, circle targeter, caster slams tentacles down at targeter dealing damage and slowing enemies, then after short delay caster is leaped to spot autos nearest enemy. if enemy with 3 marks is caught in initial slam stun briefly and auto instead deals % of targets max health. 2 charges, 24/20/16 sec cooldown each 70/80/90%ad, 5/8/10% Max health
@@namishusband818 Corki is boring as fuck. The only thing he does is farm in early game. Much like TF and he doesn’t get a model update either. All Corki does is farm cull farm tear and then after 20 minutes into the game you can talk about doing dmg and even then you have to not go in cuz you will get yourself killed in a matter of a second.
As a Corki main, I can tell you that he is absolutely playable and not at all outdated. He is one of the strongest mid- to lategame champions and the package is very unique and deals tons of damage.Its just an incredible underrated champion. His model is pretty old and clunky though, but you can say that about like 75% of the champions.
You mentioning Aphelios turret made me think of something that may be interesting. So I came up with a champion that has a turret/spawnable entity as an ultimate, that ultimate is unlocked at level 1 (like karma), it has a fairly short cooldown (like 20-30 sec) and it just repositions the turret. The turret exists for about 15 sec, it just permanently shoots in front of it(like rumble/korki, but with a bit longer range). The q has a stack passive and adjusts the direction the turret is facing, it also has a pretty short cooldown, your aa's and the turret both give stacks of the passive, but the aa do it slower even at high attack speed. At max stacks turret starts to autolock to targets and stays on field forever, until replaced or stops receiving stacks for some time. W is a skill shot that knocks enemies back a very short distance (like a sol ult), after casting it, the turret will deal aoe damage around itself. E is a skill shot from you and your turret (like zed shadow) that will slow enemies, if you don't have a turret placed it will also give you a bit of movement speed if hits an enemy. Also this ability will trade all your stacks for additional damage, but it may remove the turret, if it was in battle for a long time. The passive is that your turret scales only from the ult level and the amount of legendary/mythic items you have. That may help with bad itemization problems. So your basic ability rotation looks like this: Ult -> q several times to stack passive -> e and w to lock down enemies near the turret. So, does it even resemble a caster marksman?
One idea would be a mini Jhin ult. You would enter a state in which you can't auto attack, but can sling skillshots at the enemy. Like, for the sake of it, visualize Jinx. She would shoot normaly with the mini gun, and when she has an ability called "Fishbones!" where she switches to her bazookah, disabling her own auto attacks for a fixed duration, during which recasting the ability makes her shoot a missile in the target direction at a mana cost (like corki's ult). And using her other abilities like Zap! or Chompers will instantly disable Fishbones and go back to Pow-Pow (Of course, she would be able to ult while having fishbones out, but she could still do it with PowPow). Something you failed to mention was how all 4 caster marksmen can still auto-attack in between their ability casts (like any other adc) But if you limit this, where you create moments where the champ can "disable" its auto attacks (like Jhin's ult), suddenly the design doors open to thousands of possibilities! (Though, having a traditional adc that can turn into machine gun ezreal at the press of a button may have its own balancing problems, meaning it would need some pretty heavy downsides...)
I present to you Freya, Chronos, and Olorun from Smite. Of course, Smite separates physical and magical character itemization entirely, disallowing hybrid builds. But that also allows them to focus on new ways to use magic damage and items. Magic damage gods have a set, small amount of scaling magic damage added to their basic attacks (30% of magic power i think) but the marksmen style mages have abilities that increase that scaling in some way. Olorun even enables his basic attacks to crit after building enough magic damage. But as once of the other commenters said, the way league is built mechanically limits how they can design champions within their archetypes.
I think lethality/Q build varus should be counted as a caster ADC given his reliance on abilities to deal the lion's share of his damage when built that way. otherwise, he's an on-hitter
He does mention Sivir, which is basically the same case as Varus. They're both hybrids, not true casters, with Sivir being a hybrid of lethality caster and full crit basic attacker, and Varus being a hybrid of lethality caster and on-hit basic attacker
New caster ADC: a soldier/general from piltover that uses a assault rifle and his gimmick would be a gameplay that reminds games like hotline miami (btw according to the devblog the upcoming ADC will be just that) His auto attacks would actually be melee but he wouldn't have any bonus with them like Samira does and would also be considered ranged to avoid bullshit with Botrk and sterak's. His Q would be his main ability: you can hold Q to be slowed and quickly fire multiple extremely low damage skillshots in the cursor direction, with much shorter range than typical skillshots (maybe around 700 units). The shots CANNOT strike but apply on-hit and on-attack effects at 100% effectiveness, while having reduced healing from lifesteal/omnivamp, and work on a ammo system just like jhin/graves, but you should be able to reload manually with W. Every single ADC in the game has at least one self peel ability/gimmick so his E could be a target melee stun or something Can't think much about the rest of the kit but he would need some kind of movement speed buff or dash. We already have a caster adc with a skillshot that benefits from crit (samira) and the only worthwhile on-hit effect for ezreal is spellblade so we don't truly have a on-hit based caster ADC.
Here is my caster adc concept: Kindred but instead of the W being boring and passive it works like orianna Q moving the wolf around. Autos, Q and E near wolf causes wolf to bite the hit enemy like lucians extra shot. Final proc of E automatically moves wolf to the target for a guaranteed bonus strike. Passive stacks increase wolfs bonus attack radius. How caster it ends up being depends on how heavily you tune the damage between kindred and the wolf. All wolf is ad azir with one soldier, all kindred is just a lucian sidegrade. Somewhere in the middle could be really interesting imo and make a champion thats already fun even more fun. If youre riot and like overloading kits you could even add an interaction with the R
Vars: “There can be no more castor adcs”
Zeri: “Ima ruin this man’s whole career”
Exactly, he didn't think about making the actual auto attack a skill shot bound to an ability.
i think Zeri proved exactly his point, her Q is a very low CD missile (like Ezreal Q), W a non projectile skillshot (like Lucian Q), E a dash (with CD reduction on Q hit, like Graves E)....
@@jaywu4804 yeah but she plays very differantly from Ezreal or Lucian.
bruhhh but she plays like a normal masksman tho, just swap the auto and her q then voila she isn't quirky anymore
@@mohammadsaddam4560 not really, she plays like an ezreal, quite literally. she kites the enemy with her speed and projectiles
Riot already has a perfect caster marksman in Azir if they just do a few tweaks to his kit. I've always thought he should be an AD champion instead of AP, his soldiers attack with spears after all.
Yeah but his sand soldiers are held together by magic and created from sand on the spot. That doesn't make sense as an AD champion
@@GY-bd9bo all of ezreal habilities are magic based but he is a adc nonetheless
@@GY-bd9bo magic makes sense???
@@GY-bd9bo Qiyana, an elementalist, is an AD Assassin. Illaoi, uses magical tentacles summoned by her God, as a AD Juggernaut. Kalista and Hecarim, magical beings in the form of the undead, are an ADC and AD Juggernaut respectively. Jax, smacks people with a lamp, does some magic damage. Kai'sa does hybrid damage. Katarina throws knives, does magic damage. Lucian and Senna have magic guns yet do physical damage. Nidalee, throws her spear and mauls people, does magic damage. Yasuo, Yonne and Riven do physical damage despite having magic related techniques and weapons. Teemo poisons his enemies, a physical affliction yet does magic damage. Taliyah throws rocks at people yet is a mage. Zyra, ducks people with her plants yet does magic damage.
You're argument isn't holding up, bud.
@@monsieurromanbedlam5101 W response you shit on him
12:16 as an Azir enjoyer i must say that he is exactly what ur saying here, he is a mage that autoattacks with AP instead of AD, even the AS is the same as marksman, i think Azir is the only TRUE ap dmg marksman, coz cassio and ryze just spam a shit tone of abilities per second but Azir actually autoattacks to deal 70% of his dmg. Probbably the reason he is constantly getting nerfed, that sounds like a balancing nightmare
makes sense
kayle, teemo
@Noah P what is that kind of build? i just go nashor's, berserkers, riftmaker
Corki?
@Noah P yes bork on teemo is op. specially with hail of blades xd
You mentioned a champion like AD Ryze or Cassiopeia existing but that was literally pre-rework Urgot lol
Yep and it's a shame they "Deleted" him from the game, I think his old kit was pretty unique and fun. I'm biased tho old Urgot was my first master 7 Rest In Peace old friend.
@@letchukki what about old yorick ?
I miss old urgot. He was my main in S5 and I had a great time playing wit his janky ass kit. I wish I could play him again even once.
@@TheMycelle Old yorick was a total mess that didn't work on any level. You can't really call him an ADC caster because the whole point of his build was to spam all his abilities at once to get incredibly tanky and try do overwhelm the enemy before he ran out of mana.
Oh, man. Playing old Urgot in URF was a blast.
I wonder if the new Marksman (being more of a "Shooter") will fall in a limbo or end up as a caster, since it will probably have a "permanently attacking" thing
will probably be a mid champion
@@eryalmario5299 Riot tend to plan on what role their champ'll go.
The next champ is planned to go bot lane, and the one after - support.
@@lanternno8491 seraphine was also planned to be a midlane champion
@@hastur2905 She can be played Mid still, and isn't that bad at it.
The fact that she's also a bot laner and a support, as well as a mid lane is just her being busyed in a meta which is favourable for her.
Passive: every time you cast you also auto attack twice, and also you have a 3 hit passive, and whenever you apply it you get back 30% missing HP and refresh all your cool downs, and also shoot them another 3 times, and also get a move speed bonus and go into stealth, an
I remember your Maple, Maple 2, Realm, videos
Glad you are prospering in the League airspace 😎
forgot about realm, used to really like that game
I miss Maple 2 T_T
Y'know Vars, you should hold a champ concept competition for fun, it would really be cool
I mean, It would be doable, just use a senna-kind thing with close to none A.S and a skill rotation where you can intercalarte those slow autos but without the souls mechanic, mabye something like ezreals pasive but instead of A.S you get ad for every skillshot landed and Then you can simply A.A them, slow but in to oblivion.
Jhin with Conqueror, but with different attack patterns seems like.
Kinda Jhin and Senna thrown together, I like it
@@danielzhang5842 I mean, Yeah, It was kind of the idea.
so my two fav adcs Jhin and Senna combined
How about a character where they have a super slow slow auto attack but long attack range where there abilities when landed will give him a stack that once you have full stacks by landing all 3 basic abilities you can use those stacks to amp your next auto for massive damage your r should either be a passive effect with no cast able function, utility ult that has good mobility with a low cool down or an ult that marked one target so that your basic abilities now build twice as many stacks so your auto attack does even more damage
Before the Premiere, Urgot pre rework was the best design of an adc caster
They can recycle Urgot's kit to make another caster marksman. Just like how they recycle pre-rework Irelia's ult and becomes Gwen's ult 🤩
I don't know if you remember but urgot pre rework could shoot you point and clik qs with
@@lemingter Was so much fun to play though. Prerework Urgot was unironically one of my favorite champions.
@@bonkwave1604 Yeah, Urgot was among the first 5 champs I bought, those were fun times
@@MrLuzakman I actually had no intention of buying him. Got him from a champ shard reroll. But I gave him a shot since I owned him and found I really loved his gameplay. It was kinda stupid and his design was awful but he was just such a blast to play. Easily my favorite Caster ADC.
What if you gave a champion a sort of...negative passive, were their auto attacks only do 90% of their damage (like kalista, when her oathswoarn is not near) but when they use an abilty it enables their auto attack back to 100% (sort of like a ranged riven ) ? that would be a new way to design a ranged ad caster without their auto attacks doing to much damage (the number could of course be fine tuned, if 90% proves to little of a downside and 100% on ability casts is too broken)
I designed something similar in this thread. Basically revolves around your abilities doing no damage (literally 0), but marking the targets hit, and every ability having a different hitbox. Each mark can then be consumed by an autoattack for a bonus effect, based on the ability that applied the mark.
@@alexmcfly31415 Thats sounds abit too much. Like a Zoe E or Ezreal W, but no chance to miss it.
That’s already how Lucian is with his double auto passive. It’s why his dps is so lackluster in the late game unless you have the mechanics to pilot him properly.
Or do you mean like how riven’s ult is a massive AD steroid? If that’s the case Jinx kog ashe and xayah hit that role already with each of their auto enhancements.
@@alexmcfly31415 this is the best take I've heard so far. Ezreal requires you to hit your abilities, but you are meant to weave autos in between your abilities as well. This is the exact same for mages. You hit your abilities, and in between you auto and reposition. This idea really has promise IMO because it would require you to hit skillshots that then give you more gameplay options. Think like ivern Q or Vex R, but for more things say like Ms or shields or access to a short range dash for one of the abilities, and the others have damaging properties based on the marks the abilities could place. A champion that is a caster marksman, that does close to zero attack damage through autos unless they land the prerequisite skillshots first. It would be a really interesting concept imo and while you could still call it an ezreal clone, ezreal doesn't have to auto to deal damage. This ad, while having basically all missiles, would operate WAY differently in terms of gameplay.
@@alexmcfly31415 i dont know why but this gives me samira vibes, you do autos with her just to stack up your ult not to manly do dmg with them. though i add this
I like how Jhin's autos are just slow and methodical yet powerful enough to make them "Feel" like spells you cast.
Jhin gang rise up
"Thats a horrible idea"
So that means the zaun adc is going to be exactly that?
The newest ADC coming out next year is supposedly supposed to have a different auto attack mechanic which sounds very intriguing. (it’s designed by the designer or Jhin and Jinx)
Will be the abilities influencing his way to attack, very good idea but still adc
I think his AA will be skillshots that he has to recharge. Might be wrong tho
@@entername5495 Maybe like graves who has the only autos in the game that can miss, but does a shit ton of dmg if it does hit.
@@tommydo7057 Kalista and Twitch can miss AAs too. Though I'm not sure for Twitch, I just had a few games where I saw Twitch players activating their ult and attacked an enemy that was far away and had high movement speed. I'm not 100% sure but his AAs do act different when he ults so I think you can sort of dodge them. Kalista just has this downside in her passive.
@@wanyshu1671 Twitch's R gives him bonus AD, range and his autos pierce enemies.
And that high movement speed is either from Q ,Zeal items or Support.
It generally depends, but i think that your definition is a bit suspect. There are a number of spellslingers Ezreal, Lucian, Senna, Varus and so forth, who in order to be played optimally rely on weaving spells and auto attacks for sheen procs. There is a reason DS Senna was strong besides the item being busted. That is something I'd say is key to making a caster marksman hybrid.
edit: Thing is there are characters like Ziggs or Lux, who blur the line form the other direction as well, which can limit the gimmicks Riot could pull out, on top of the general necessity to design these characters now around the fact that there are champions, who can fly over from two screens away, while untargettable and oneshot youw ith their chogath ult sized Q of true damage.
These sorts of analyses always rely on the specific way we slice the data. I agree with you; fundamentally, what makes a caster marksman a caster isn't something about a kit's mechanical complexity or the power curve or anything like that, it's how much being effective depends on pressing QWER vs. focusing on right-clicking. Yes, there will never be another Ezreal, but there also shouldn't be, because we already have Ezreal.
IMO, there are still *tons* of things you could do with caster ADCs, from ones whose attacks deal very little damage but significantly buff their abilities, to more purely AP Marksmen that do weird crit scaling conversions, to leaning into something like the Urgot direction and having an ADC that is a "tank" in the "Heavy Cannon Fire" sense of the word.
Divine Sunderer Senna was a thing when Divine was weak, but it didint have at that time the ranged penalty on the spellblade pasive.
DS Ezreal is still busted
"Samira's ult: TOO MUCH DAMAGE"
I felt that in my 3 Pentas without knowing how to play ADC properly
Yeah. Funnily enough my only pentakill in 10 years of League was in my very first game as Samira. Was in Nexus Blitz though so no requirement to learn how to lane with her.
From experience it's safe to say that riot will never make no basic attack adcs. Basically the definition of what a caster marksman would be.
Why was this comment posted 10 hours before the video was released
@@arnoutvandenbulcke7053 If the creator of the video has a premiere scheduled you can access the video before it's posted thus making it possible to comment and like beforehand
Laughs in Varus
Exactly, they could make an AD mage who's spells all scale from crit etc, but at the end of the day a marksman in league is defined by AA's. You could in theory just have the "AA" be a spell, like Cassio E or something, but it's just semantics at that point. I think Ezreal pretty much debunks this tbh he is a definite caster marksman.
Doesn’t Jayce already fit this niche to an extent? Hybrid artillery mage and skirmisher who only uses basic (gotta be distinct here since he has that 3 attack steroid) autos to harass melee matchups. Even then he uses the q-e even more with that range and damage.
You mean the (reasonabily) fast autoatacking AD mages?
Vel'Koz and Azir are the best ADC
@@indrickboreale7381 But Vel koz dosent have fast auto attacks?
@@percivalgraves521 Just build nash
@@percivalgraves521 He and Bird Emperor have got insta aa
I would point Varus as a Caster adc too, he was most of the time a on-hit marksman, but normally is way more relevant when he is strong as a caster marksman
6:50
Graves was a Lucian cl- now hold on a minute!
Graves came out _before_ Lucian so Lucian was a _Graves_ clone!
Get it right! D;
(Great video regardless, tbh)
I know this video old but I thought the same thing when I heard that😂😂
Passive: no bonus damage from critical strikes but instead increases the effect of marks. Marks can be consumed by an auto attack for bonus damage or by another spell to amplify the next mark.
Q: Projectile shot. marked enemy recieves increased damage if consumed by AA (20%, 40%, 65%)
W: Aoe spell. marked enemies are slowed(movement and AA) if consumed by AA (20%, 35%, 50%)
E: backward dash with skill shot(caitlyn but farther skill shot). marked enemies take autos farther and reduces cooldown of basic skills if consumed (+100 range) (20%, 40%, 60%)
R: for thematic. doesnt need to be another mark.
combos
WEQ or EWQ AA for burst
WQE or QWE AA for damage + reposition
QEW AA for catching people or dueling
Q AA W AA E AA in any order for highest dps.
Ahh ADCs like Ezreal, Jhin, and Varus have a special place in my heart for being more ability involved than the other adcs. Their gameplay was fun and satisfying.
Same lmao I get bored with auto attack spammers ngl (aside from Draven)
my favs are Jhin, Ezreal, Senna, Varus and Yasuo Adc 👀
As Ezreal, Jhin and Xayah main, i feel you
Passive: All abilities can crit for bonus damage, reduce crit damage with AA, refund mana on takedown
Q; 13-5 seconds:Marks an Area that explodes after 3 seconds dealing massive damage and applying on-hit effects
W:applies a debuff (-50% damage to you) to all enemies around you
E;25-10 seconds: blink to a target location and deal ad damage to the farthest enemy in range while gaining physical vamp when hitting champions
R ;15/ 12.5/ 10 seconds: projectile marks enemies hit for 5 seconds , dealing damage when hit by another ability, increasing effect with distance travelled, also shreds %armor until used, when used also reduces the remaining CD of basic abilities by 25% of remaining
This aged funnily xD Next Caster Marksman incoming with Smolder
Well 2 years later and we have smolder
the only way i can imagine a new caster marksman functioning is with a capacitor style gameplan: auto to charge up in power and release it as damage through abilities. damage is shifted from auto attacks to abilities, forcing you to cast to do damage but keep autoing to make the damage is high.
Well i thought about a concept but it borrows a bit of some other champs...
P: You mark an enemy by hitting them with AA or Abilities (runaans does apply it as well), for 3 seconds
Q: A Projectile which is single Target if it hits something, if it does not hit at max range it turns into AOE (only 33% damage) (AOE applies marks to everyone hit)
W: Shoots out a barrage of projectiles (like Kai Sa) on every marked enemy. passive: turns 80% (or less) of AP into AD.
E: You dash with the help of eg.: Rocket boots into the target direction, and while dashing the rocketflames burn enemies.
R: Shoots a Metal Stake that impales the Ground, creating an electrifying field, which slows enemies. If an enemy CHamp is hit the Stake will impale the champ first then the ground, rooting them. (if you use qss he wont be rooted, but he still has that electric field coming out of him.
None of the abilities have AP Scaling. Maybe add a second line to the passive. And Values may be adjusted for balance sake.
I added the AP part for more build Diversity, whilst stil ensuring the champ stays AD. Cooldownwhise i dont know, depends on what every ability does i guess (like appliing on hit effects or crit).
Whats your take on this?
He're an idea i took and arranged my way from another commenter on this video by the name of Sammyiel:
A marksman that is able to charge his Q spell through time, like Amumu's bandages. W and E would be utility like with Jhin, and maybe an R for mobility would help, either to follow or flee when you don't have any Q's left.
A kill-triggered reset giving back all your Q's could be a good idea, maybe a little OP but again Samira is... kinda balanced and works similarly with her R being up nearly 24/7.
If kill-triggered doesn't work out, playing it cookie-cutter and reducing it's CD when it hits like Ezreal could work out as well.
Maybe the last Q could also be a finisher or some sort, either through true damage or %health damage.
This altogether feels a lot like a horrible jhin/ezreal hybrid, but other ideas can't come to mind for me right now
"Last Q being a finisher"
So if you have only one charge of Q, it's a finisher? And then you wait, you regain one charge, and it's a finisher again? I don't know how that would work, you could just spam Q's to always have 1-2 in the kit and always have a finisher at hand.
Or do you mean like Corki's R, where every N-th cast is empowered?
@@alexmcfly31415 Yeah more like corki's R, for exemple if you have max 3 Q's it would be every 3rd
We already got an ADC with mage type abilities - Kayle. But she is balanced by having one of the worst early to mid game.
After many mini-reworks ,she is no longer weak mid-game. Her mid-game now is actually pretty decent thanks to Riftmaker and Nashors.
She is only weak until lvl6.
@@walkelftexasranger She's not even weak all the way to lvl 6. With her E she has a very strong lvl 1, since it gives extra on-hit dmg and is an aa reset. She's very weak from lvl 2-5 though
@@walkelftexasranger weak till 6? I can tell you have not played kayle in the last 5 months. She can literally 1v1 yasuo and come out on top at lvl 1
@@NoOne-qi4tb Yes...If you play like shit she can beat you at lvl1 on Midlane.
@@walkelftexasranger well I'm a kayle main, never once struggled beating a yasuo in lane unless my jungle died everytime they tried to gank
Honestly, I feel like League's mechanical design is a big part of what makes it difficult to make a caster marksman; I know that Heroes of the Storm has a few different ways to do something like that since the Talent system gives you some flexibility in how you build per game. Junkrat and Hanzo are good examples of that, I think; Hanzo's got a high basic attack range but his basic attacks are really slow unless you take a specific (and risky since even if it's maxed out you can lose stacks if you die) talent, so it's often better to focus on his Q (a chargeable line skillshot) or W (a skillshot that breaks into five smaller projectiles when it hits terrain and bounces back) over his basics.
Junkrat is a bit more utility-focused (his E sets down a bear trap that will lock someone in place for a bit and his W is the same kind of ability as Ziggs' Satchel Charge) but his primary source of damage is his Q, which is a grenade launch that bounces/has a bit of delay if it doesn't hit anything; since Junkrat has no resource meter it uses an ammo system. His basic attacks are average in speed and damage both, with the main benefit being that Junkrat's basics hit in an AoE (which you can make bigger by taking a late-game talent).
Valla's another good example of that since she has more or less three different builds. She can take talents to improve her basic attacks (she plays very similarly to Vayne in that case), her W, Multishot (making her a caster that does damage in a cone area) or her Q, Hungering Arrow (which makes her very good at dueling and clearing objectives since it can do a lot of damage to a single target).
I feel like if you wanted to try and do another caster marksman in League, you would need to do something similar to HotS' Nova. I'm aware that we just got Akshan who is a Marksman/Assassin like she is, but Nova's method is pretty different from Akshan's. Nova's basic attacks aren't super fast (and if you take a certain talent, they do a lot more damage and decrease the physical armor of heroes hit for a bit, but fire much slower) and the bulk of her damage typically comes from her Q ability, Snipe. You gain a stacking buff each time Snipe hits an enemy Hero with an additional damage bonus at max stacks, but if you fail to hit anything with it you lose all your stacks. Perhaps, translating that to League, you'd have a champion whose Crit can only apply to their main damage ability?
Hots ftw
They are not. The game's systems just favor AA based marksmen far too heavily. I can't think of items that are the "perfect fit" for AD casters outside manamune, serylda's grudge and edge of night. Maybe a sheen item. Everything else must be borrowed from other sub-classes, which most likely mean they won't be as useful. They don't have a good mythic and doesn't help that Riot has been progressively turning every item into a crit item. Essence Reaver used to be an AD caster item.
Doesn't help that when those builds do pop up, they get nerfed immediatly. Most notably Varus. Lucian and Jhin too often get tweaked to force them away from lethality back into crit. Ashe used to have a build with comet where she went Essence Reaver and Trinity Force. That too dissapeared.
Riot just tries too hard to force the cookie-cutter late game hyper carry archetype down everyone's throat.
Jhin ruined the Lethality items for all other ADCs and then went Galeforce rofl
Borrowing items from other sub-classes doesn't mean they have to be a bad champ.
Have you ever seen a well played Bard for exemple, even though he literally builds items from 3/4th of the other classes in the game?
+ The current/Previous meta of late season11 where everyone builds goredrinker and Divine sunderer, which are bruiser items.
I'd be interested in other champs that build from multiple sources, Bard being so much fun to play even though i either get an S or a D+ on every game, but i don't think Riot would intentionally design something as such.
@@thelostsoul9446 Senna's itemisation has been a huge mess since the item rework. There are way too many situationally alright builds, while there is no really ideal build.
Then you get poor xayah who is both extremely ability extremely attack speed and extremely crit reliant leaving her with a bunch of items that kind of work but also don't give her everything she needs. Leading to a pretty awkward build path
@@dragonsreingsupreme1 Xayah is the unfortunate lovechild of ADC design ethnics, She relies on her abilties like all caster ADC, but she also needs crit to boost her damage, so she is funneled into buying Essence reaver and that's it.
Vars: “There can be no more castor adcs”
Zeri: “Ima ruin this man’s whole career”
Smolder: "o shit im gonna do it again"
I will say, samiras different playstyle is what makes my love the champ when compared to most adcs. Shes the only M7 adc I have and the fact that she feels like she has actual agency is what I think adcs need more of tbh.
but she doesnt do anything when she is behind, she is extremely fun and fed tho
here is an idea - how about a caster adc that uses water pressure, he's abilities and auto have increased potency the more water pressure he has, the pressure will slowly rise and will be reduced whenever he cast an ability or use an auto. so he is basically a frontloaded ad nuker that in order to be effective he needs to use his abilities when he has high pressure and then cools off for another rotation or try to finish targets with low damage autos.
So basically an AD caster that deals more damage the more full there mana pool and then when they're oom they do less damage?
@@tiggertime7265 more like an ad caster with a an additional bar that Regen much faster than mana and go down much faster as well. So more like energy but with increased damage the higher energy you have
Based on riot's post i guess the next camp will have something like an automatic gun as his q, but won't be able to aa (or at least with a very reduced efficiency), that way you get something that feels like a topdown shooter like enter the gungeon or something like that. I think it can be an interesting concept for a caster marksman
maybe like making the auto attacks work like a 5th ability that has a cooldown
@@jaishkhan7442 jhin
Something like Urgot?
@@ashegner7464 true sounds like jhin...
maybe make using abilities give more uses of auto attacks (so better to stack Haste instead of AS)
or make the auto attacks be time gated and not bullet gated (so still better to stack AS so you can fire more times in that time frame)
@@jaishkhan7442 yea it is really hard to design a new caster adc. The first idea sound like lucian and the second idea would still just be a regular adc
suprised that akshan isn´t mentioned in this video
I mean, riot kinda made a perfect AD caster accidentally conceptually but he does AP damage. His Q is a glorified skillshot auto-attack that deals high single target damage. His W is a get of me tool. His E is an “hey, im not done with you” and same goes for his passive and ultimate. Karthus.
As for an other AD caster the thing is that there are also a lot of casters that basically have a Q that works a lot like an auto attack but with extra steps like ezreal. Talking about syndra and orianna with their balls respectively. Both kinda feel like glorified auto-attacks as well. Same goes for Taliyah’s Q.
All the unique things you can think of already exist either in the caster MM class or in mages. The basic shapes of league lines and circles are covered by ezreal and karthus in the bot lane. When you want to go creative such as giving an caster MM Orianna Q it is gonna get weird.
As for syndra not much could change. change her passive so that landing Q refresh W CD and landing W refresh Q cd. But it will still be difficult to balance.
Taliyah Q could also maybe work and you have an interesting mechanic with her worked ground. Change her E to be an radius around her. Change her W to be a short dash that when on worked ground consumes the worked ground, travels further and at the end a knock back to still have an W that can proc her E.
Idk im just spitballing and not creating anything new just thinking of other ways to use an other characters ability.
The Marvel Moba game has Yondu who is basically Oriana as a Marskman. Maybe something similar to him, where your auto attack is technically an ability, might work?
I think there's a number of reasons as to why this is the most popular category of the 4.
1. For one they feel incredibly satisfying to play once mastered as casting some flashy abilities will always look cooler than using your regular ol' auto attacks to deal the brunt of your damage.
2. They also for the most part seem to have decent mid game or in lucian's case strong early game if the circumstances allow for him to get close and personal.
3. Currently ( at least in my opinion ) crit items fail to empower auto attacks up until you get your fourth item. It's not reliable enough to deal good dps and still makes you sacrifice an item slot to buy Infinity Edge as you don't pack as much of a punch anymore with crits due to the changes. This also plays into the second point of having worse mid game than their spell caster counterparts. Raw AD is just more relevant on champions who use their abilites more often ( unless they have certain on hit properties which allow them to crit like Samira's Q ).
The best example to back this up is poor old Twitch. His abilities have next to no AD scalings, making him more dependant on auto attacks than any other marksmen in the game. While he at least has his E it's still inferior to the AP version, which not only gives him more damage on that ability but also makes his posion a very concerning form of damage. Thus it makes his Crit gameplay very toxic ( no pun intended ) to play. To an extend all auto attack crit champions suffer from this but Twitch is the best example.
4. They are more meta and arguably scale just as well as a Jinx or Twitch. As stated before because of these benefits they are a more relevant force to reckon with come mid game which gives the ADC player more immediate agency over the game and in a game that gets progressively faster with each year there's no wonder these champions are very well liked among ADC players
I still cannot fathom as to why adcs whine about crit items and lack of defensive items.
You get to have the HIGHEST DPS IN THE GAME AS A CLASS.
You get to have the SAFEST WAY OF DEALING DMG. Since you cannot dodge auto attacks (not looking at graves)
If you are so underpowered why are you still being played at a competitive level of game since fuck me if all of the above is not true then yup ziggs lux and syndra apc
@@Helikite Pro play is a completely different enviroment to soloq. ADC players are allowed to reach their power spike and teammates understand the importance of you as a damage source.
In soloq however things are quite different. Random fights ensue constantly, making it difficult to reach even 3 items before one team has gained an advantage of some sort and snowballs out of control. It's also far less coordinated which means you aren't as likely to get any form of peel at all from anyone on your team despite your potential dps being one of the highest in the game.
And I think you missed the point of my comment. Ability users such as Lucian, Samira and Ezreal have consistently been very solid picks in soloq because of the reasons stated in my comment. ADCs with higher mid and early game agency like Tristana feel good to play and for those champions the items function as they should.
The criticism is directed towards pure autoattackers such as Jinx or Twitch. If you've ever played Twitch before you'll understand why crit items feel very underwhelming up until your fourth item.
It's also worth noting that these complaints are present because the game has gotten faster, therefor delaying the item spike for these champions by an entire item, when it was already considered late game to have 3 crit items completed, makes it really difficult to have a meaningful impact in the game when your only job is to deal damage. With a faster meta and a higher likely hood for games to spiral out of control with the enormous snowballing issue in the game, it causes a lot of frustration when you do play something that isn't a 2 item powerspike good such as Irelia
I think I got some design to a new caster marksman. We just need to recover old Urgot's Q+E combo and tune it.
Imagine a Q that is a skillshot but it gets autoaim into marked enemies(literally old Urgot's Q but applies on hit effects), a high range skillshot on W that deals damage and marks the first target it hits, some sort of dash on E and something like an orbital strike as ult (GP's ult but instead of waves it's a big chunk of area damage and marks enemies hit). Combine that with a pasive that increases your damage over an enemy every time you hit him with a cap and you got it.
congratulations! you have created zeri
@@vitormoura6003 Zeri isn't even close to this idea. Anyways I did it before Zeri was even teased so...
Here are possible design choices for caster marksmen:
* Basic spells are weak, but get amplified in power after you attack several times
* Spells that apply actual attacks on hit targets
So basically varus and kalista(1) and ezreal(2)
You know what’s amazing. Akshan fits All of the Marksman categories. Q damage, E disengage/engage, R damage I.E. Caster marksman. Also he is built with Crit, and is On-hit
With amount of bullshit in his kit you can tell me he is building full tank and I'll believe
@@MrLuzakman you could remove his W skill completely and he will still have a complete kit
@@muncher1753 well, he does get warwick w passive as well as free revive and extra gold from it anyway
@@MrLuzakman That's not even the most annoying part of his kit. It's because he's a Vayne + Lucian with a hookshot.
I have two idea for ADC, none was designed specifically as casters tho. you can decide
Kaliban - The Eye of Zaun
(Lorewise he is bounty hunter, and basically Zaun counterpart of Caitlyn)
P - Lifeform Scanner
Kaliban periodically sweeps his surrounding area, pinging locations of all nearby enemies, regardless of their visibility status. Pings only show location, they don't revel nor expose them.scan cooldown and range improves with levels
Q - Precise Aim
Kaliban pulls out his sniper rifle and shots one bullet in straight line, dealing 100% total AD to first enemy hit. This applies lifesteal, can critically strike for 100% crit damage modifier and apply on hit effects.
*Cooldown of this ability is reduced by attack speed, at max rank this ability cost 0 mana*
W - Smoke screen
Drops down a smoke granade which creates vision obscuring pillar of smoke for 2-5 seconds. while smoke lasts Kaliban gains movement speed
E - Hunter Seeker
*passively* - Kaliban on hit applies Marking Rounds to hit enemy champions and large/epic monster. Marking Rounds revel their target for 5 seconds.
*actively* -Kaliban deploys Hunter Seeker missile that flies in straight line and explodes on first enemy hit, base + 50% AP dealing magic to all targets in medium area, while slowing them for 20% for 1s
*If Hunter Seeker flies within 1000 units range of Market target, it will active guidance system and home in onto closest enemy tagged by Marking Rounds. While hunter seeker is homing in, affected Marking Rounds duration is extended*
R - Raven Guard
Kaliban deploys a Raven Guard Sentry which has 5/6/7 hit points, 1.0 attack speed, 550 attack range and dealing 25/35/45% total AD + 50% AP physical damage on hit. Raven Guard also provide True Vision within it's attack range, and apply on hit effects with 33% effectiveness, including Marking Rounds for 2s
Only up to three Raven Guards can be deployed at once.
I mean, Corki is in such a tight spot that his Q doesn't even do that much damage after early game. It's basically a Utility because it gives vision, W is his escape and E is more utility and his ult is poke damage. At this point he is a Auto-attack Mage. Heck, he even plays in mid.
corki is a late game champion, he is doing tickle damage because you're focusing on the early game. get lvl 16 and hit an empowered R, Q, auto and watch them die in less than a second
@@omgfgwtf7082 Indeed. I play a lot with him in mid (In the rare occasions i go mid) and it was all because a Corki two shot me with his AA.
Concept: Assassin Markaman (a caster obv
Passive: If their abilities hit out of vision, they deal aditional damage, scaling by level. Kills reduce 15% CD on every single ability
Q: Dashes on a targeted direction, shooting three projectiles towards their closest enemies, giving priority to champions, can hit on minions. Aply on-hit effects
W: Throws three projectiles on a cone shape, dealing phisical damage and slowing their target
E: Activates a camouflage for a short period of time (Like Kai'Sa's E). After this effect ends, they get aditional attack damage
R: If they are camouflaged (bush, E, etc.), and there's a enemy close to them, the Champion jumps towards that champion, then shoot their weapon on the enemy face, dealing larges amounts of damage, if they kill with this ultimate, they can re cast it to dash towards a targeted direction
Horrible idea, but wanted to try it out
Corki is an incredible marksman.
True, you get a lot more AP than AD, but AP doesn't crit.
ALso, you get a lot more from one pair of pen boots, than a lethality item, because a lot of champions don't have natural MR scaling.
Itemising vs a corki is not easy.
In adition he gets some insane ratios and sustained sheen procs
Needs a small rework or number change to his base abilities, since it sucks ass.
Q: Really ass ratio + speed. You literally can walk out of it even without boots. The 6s reveal doesn't have any value either.
W: Long ass CD + speed. The dmg portion is again, really mediorce.
E: Why would a class that relies on constant kiting, have an ability that force them to face tank head on for a few seconds to get any value? Insta rework.
He's basic attack do crit the magic damage.
@@duytran9086 6s reveal is taking out the vision game out of the oponent's arsenal. But agreed, could do with a swifter projectile.
W has a look cooldown, but it is also an uninterruptible dash with a very short windup.
E is a bit pitiful and a relic of the past (black cleaver woohoo) MR shred always helps though
Don't know if this would count as a caster marksman, but here's my random idea for a champ:
Passive: Basic attacks restore mana
Q: skillshot projectile that damages minions it passes through and ends on contact with a champion, dealing X damage to that champion. (main source of damage, very spammable, close to ez Q)
W: skillshot projectile that blinds and applies an MR and armor-shredding debuff in a small aoe at short range. (think Annie's ability range and aoe the size of a Karthus Q)
E: shockwave emanates from this champ knocking all champions within the radius back to the radius' edge and dealing damage. (Similar to Janna ult but damage instead of healing and a smaller radius)
R: For 3 seconds Champion gains True Sight in a large radius around them, giving them vision even into unwarded nearby bushes. Champion gains a small movement speed, attack speed, and ability cooldown buff. For the duration of the ult, the champion can move while performing basic attacks and casting abilities
It feels weird hearing talk about caster marksmen without a single mention of quinn, Someone who is primarily working around her cooldowns and her mark while still very clearly still being a marksman.
but quinn's damage comes primarily from her autos, not the abilities, so i think it doesnt fit in casters
I think everybody has just forgotten about her like i never see her in any games maybe like once in 40 or 50. And as you can clearly see she is a failed experiment that riot wanted to create.
She is not a caster. Her main dmg source are her auto attacks. Her abilities are simply utility abilities somewhat similar to traditional marksmen.
@@bohomazdesign725 But a lot of her damage easily comes from her marks, which she uses her abilties to cast and autos to trigger.
@@amandaslough125 prerework Quinn was more of an ad caster then now her abilities all are auto attack enhancers except her q which most adcs have something to poke with but they all give something to the auto attacks
My own classification of all marksmen:
Crit: Caitlyn, Draven, Jinx, Kindred, Quinn*, Tristana, Twitch, Xayah
On-hit: Ashe, Kalista, Kog'maw, Teemo*, Vayne
Hybrid: Aphelios, Jhin, Kai'sa, Miss Fortune, Senna, Sivir, Varus
Caster: Corki, Ezreal, Graves*, Lucian, Samira
* *bot it's not its primary role*
It may look like there are almost no caster, but that's not because they design so few, it's because bot lane is the role with the smallest champion pool in general. Only problem I see is that they would feel like Corki or Ezreal. But honestly, playing any auto ADC feels equally the same except 2 or 3 mechanics.
The best for me are hybrids, it's a good mix between both. I also enjoy making some auto attack ones into hybrids with some buikds, like Kog'maw or Twitch. Although those are more like AD/AP hybrids
what about something like a mirror champ think Gauche from black clover but instead of using it for magic type techniques have the dmg ramp up depending on bounces for mirrors, the abilities place or change mirror locations with maybe a quick escape using a mirror, enemies could possibly break them or just be forced to watch for multiple angles like against a zoe. the ult could deploy multiple mirrors or have active mirrors track on a target. so i guess Q= magic missile that can bounce through or off mirrors, W= place a mirror, E= escape through a mirror( like a portal hop) and the R= circle of mirrors or single target focus. i guess the biggest balance issue would be the location swapping and q pathing but put a limit such as needs LOS to function so no mirrors over terrain
This sounds fun af tbf
This champ will actually need a PhD to play even more than velkoz
@@orange1890 don't you mean aphelios?
sounds cool, kinda reminds me of zed for some reason
@@sz_b_zstechnix7523 oh ye that short novel of a champ exists
"There canbe no more caster adc"
Smolder : ima ruin this mans whole career 🎉🎉🎉
When it comes to making a new caster Marksman, you could go for a design simlilar to Stacraft's Siege Tank. Would basically be AD Xerath, having high ranged, aoe burst, but only when he's sieged up, otherwise being weak when it comes to damage. Would be the no mobility but aoe version on Ezreal.
Old xerath but in ad. Sounds actually fun
sounds fun and challenging
Not a single person in league wants to/likes getting dmged from nowhere. The map is too small for that to work first of all. Second of all it’s pretty toxic considering you would need a guard to not get blown away by talon or camille.
@@Helikite It aint fun. But it's better than someone leaping across your screen and blowing you up in half a second.
I personally consider caster marksmen to be marksmen that weave abilities as part of their core damage profile. Basically, anyone that would build essence reaver or triforce in season 9.
The archetype lost some of its definition in season 10 with the lack of a crit/haste mythic, and few crit/haste items at all.
It sounds very abstract but with passive that allow stat conversion (vlad getting ap from HP on example) maybe it could be doable but it would definitely be very hard to balance + it would likely lead to that character having an extremely niche build which would remove the freedom to adapt based on the enemy team that riot is pushing with the items rework and the recent additions.
maybe something like "giving bonus ad based on cdr" ? most high ad items do not give cdr so they would not end up with too much ad, since they are forced into another build
So basically Corki lmao
An idea came to me while watching what if they made a caster but based it around something like oriannas passive, where using an ability empowers their auto attack. It could be like a stacking system where if you land an ability (or use your dash) it adds a stack and then the next auto consumes the stacks to deal extra damage. Obviously dont let it stack infinitely, give it a max of 4-6 stacks. This way the adc has to choose between waiting for his cooldowns to get those couple extra stacks or to use the stacks now (and possibly get some on-hit cdr at least for the dash to continue fighting). The abilities should be weak though so you dont get half healthed with 2 abilities and then the auto finish you off. I reckon it could feeel similar to jhin where your building up to one big auto to finish them off.
Ezreal is just an AD mage
Hot take: "There's no pure caster marksman, who truly and only belongs in that category."
Yes, Ezreal is the one who fulfils the criteria of a caster marksman the best and there's no future champion who will be as close as him... BUT(T) even Ezreal slides with one foot in another role. He is also a mage (not quite sure whether artillery or burst tho)... He relies on his abilities, 3 out of 4 abilities deal magic damage and besides his Q every other ability of his has great AP ratios. With his play style shifted to maxing W and E he is a potent solo-lane mage.
@14:30 Actually you will have the opposite problem, if anything: AD casters stealing OP fighter items (it's happening right now w/ other classes abusing Goredrinker, but there's an even better example from the past: season 6 Sterak's Gage and it being built by marksmen because the shield was based on max hp instead of bonus hp). This problem is why AP bruisers basically *cannot* have nice items to build because if they did, mages, especially battlemages would abuse the absolute hell out of them.
Shieldbow on Yas and Yone, and Irelia semi-frequently takes it aswell. AD caster (ez) goes fighter items, but Samira doesn't, and neither does lucian. Which AD casters, excepting Ez, are stealing op items, if I can ask?
@@satsiretaffer4619 AD carries building lethality (Assassin items in this case, but the point stands, items not designed for marksmen being built on marksmen). I referenced OP fighter items most because of Goredrinker and it's widespread use by other ADs (assassins and skirmishers). The comment about having AD casters stealing fighter items was more than there being good AD caster items in the game would result in that class getting to enjoy the best of both their class intended items and of what fighters, other marksmen, and assassins also have available to build, and most likely you'd see them built 1-2 fighter items for their defenses along with other pure offensive items because that would give the best mix of damage and survivability. This was exactly why the first version of sterak's was abused by marksmen and why goredrinker is being abused by slayers right now.
My favorite adc to play is Lucian because he feels the most fluid and balanced character in the adc role. Although I can see how it was hard to balance him properly because of his solo lane dominance
Zed seems like he fits this catogery over an assasin yes he is meelee but all his abilties are about hitting ranged abilities and deleting enemies from range while talon and qiyana have to move to physically escape. While zed just presses W or R. He feels too safe for whats supposed to be an all or nothing class.
thats why i view him not really as an assain....sure he can delete you, but he plays more like an ad mage. The issuie is that people do not really respect his range and play against him as if he were a traditional assasin, and then they feel like there was no counterplay when they get punished for it
Zed is basically the same as Ahri, someone who plays the laning phase as a mage and the mid-late game as an assassin. Zed and Ahri both have incredibly safe laing phase for their respective class, Zed - an assassin with ranged poke and cs, and Ahri, - a hybrid mage with incredibly mobility, they both try to poke their opponents in laning phase as much as they can til they can finish their opponents with one last final blow. Out of laning phase, after having one or two items they start to roam and make picks as much as possible. Only difference between them is Ahri's teamfighting while sucks is still better than Zed's and Zed's dmg is just far superior compared to Ahri's
Having come from Smite, there are a few caster ADC's in the game. They cannot even build physical ADC items (a restriction in Smite as it restricts offensive items depending on if their magical or physical champs). First is Sol, who has a Passive that increases her attack speed and the ratio on AA's from magic as she lands more abilities and AAs. Her Q is a steroid that drops a small AoE that deals low damage as enemies stand in it and charges her passive and applies a HoT on her. Her w is an "empowered auto" that pulses out a firewave upon making contact with an enemy champ, terrain, or reaching max attack range and slows all enemies hit. Her E is an MS increase channel that, upon reaching max duration, then turns her into a Dmg and CC immune flare, but also reduces movement speed while in such a state. Her Ult is 8 small blasts in a slightly delayed trail that deal moderate damage and knock back enemies from the blast point. Second is Chronos. His passive is a time wheel that ties into his w with 4 segments on it, and also grants him magical power the longer the match goes. His Q is a small AoE with high damage and a low CD. His W is both an attack speed and MS steroid. The AS is immediate, and the MS increases over the course of a second or so before maxing out. it will also stop the time wheel for the duration for the duration of the steroid, providing 1 of 4 buffs, those being; All abilities cast take no mana, increased ratio on autos from power, increased power, and a HoT for 10% of your maximum health. His E is straight line ability that, when hitting an enemy, slows them to a stun over about .75 seconds and dealing damage. His ult will rewind him (similar slightly to Ekko ult) resetting him to where he was and the health he had at the time, and resetting all his cooldowns. Finally is Olorun. His passive gives him "magical crits" that hit for 1.20x damage, and the crit chance increases with magical power. His Q is a straight line ability that pierces minions and can be charged for increased range. His W gives him an ATK spd steroid, and will store a charge that, upon reactivation separate from the steroid, Will cause all the charge to unleash a flurry of fireballs in a small area with diminishing damage for each quick hit. His e is a small knock back in an AoE around him that slows enemies hit, and applies a small HoT and protections of both types for a few seconds. His Ult is a TIme Dilation field where his own animations are sped up by 1.25x, and enemy animations are slowed down to .7x animation and movement speeds.
These are mostly made by how their passives change magical power into how a traditional ADC uses AD.
Would Samira count as one?
Enit, ionian (title)
Ionian spirit: on-hits from auto attacks deal half damage, though they also apply debuff to enemies that interact with Enits abilities.
Q: send two bolts out in a V shape that then converge at original cast point (Think opposite vel'kos). These bolts apply full on-hit damage. If either bolt hits an enemy afflicted with ionian spirit it does extra damage. Cool down is based on attack speed. (Stops early game spam)
W: create a delayed aoe explosion that slows and slows attack speed of those caught inside. If afflicted with ionian spirit they are instead stunned shortly then have the slow after.
E: create a shield around enit, absorbing x damage and gaining movespeed. Those afflicted with ionian spirit only deal half damage to the shield and give additional movespeed to enit on attacking him.
R: enit emits a pulse in a direction causing each enemy to take damage. Each champion hit afflicted with ionian spirit explodes dealing x damage in a circle around them and are afflicted with debuff that makes enit deal full on hit damage with auto attacks for 5 seconds.
A ten minute rough draft of a caster marksman
Pretty cool idea
ezreal being balanced has to be a joke, so many items had to be changed because of him, he defined entire metas in the past. This shitshow of a champ is so broken XD
and then you realize he dies in a fart, does less damage than just about every other damage oriented champ in the game, and is less mobile than most high mobility champs now. but sure. so broken.
Ez isnt what is broken, muramana is what makes him strong. That item alone gives like 70 ad and allows him to build frozen heart to reach around 100 ad from it, also sheen items are pretty much a must on him due to the way his q works.
@@einjharrelraca “Dies in a fart.” So you’ve never played an ad champ against frozen heart emerald. And before you say anything about him getting one tapped by mages, remember that all adcs are about as susceptible if not more.
@@long_something a frozen heart ezreal dies just as fast as any other adc. His frozen heart wont save him from (insert assassin/bruiser here).
Just now instead of the 0/4 zed overkilling him by 3x him healthbar, he's only overkilling him by 1.5x his healthbar.
@@einjharrelraca Frozen gauntlet Ezreal was one of, if not the best users of the item because it was a massive early powerspike that made Ezreal able to 1v1 most ADC or even more annoying, top laners so your support could gank lanes when you switched lanes.
Ezreal is broken because he is literally the perfect AD, his ONE weakness is a lack of Crit burst, but he can even have that if you build it.
In theory, if you turned a Marksman’s auto attacks into a channel (kinda like if Senna autos went full Fiddlesticks W), that could be enough of a middle ground to build a Caster Marksman. The main passive could be that, plus converting attack speed into ability haste and either allowing abilities to crit chance or have crit chance act as a damage lever, like Jhin passive or Xayah E.
I have this weird idea of a marksman that has a passive that drops items from slain enemies and their spells revolve around using those as ammunition with no upper limit. Oh and their ult consumes all the ammunition and turns them into a turret gatling gun.
I wonder why the only mention of lethality ADs was a brief nod to Sivir. MF and Varus should be in the Caster Marksmen category too, even if their job isn't as well defined as Lucian and Ez.
They are more hybrids like jhin
And now we have Zeri :D
What if we had a caster marksman that moved with wasd?
Passive would be that autoing places a mark that lasts an amount of time and is consumed by landing an ability. Consuming it would refund some of your strafe resources, some mana, and deal some bonus damage. Only champions can be marked, and multiple can be marked at a time.
Instead of q, you could have the left click be a controllable missile similar to yuumi q that applies on hit effects.
Instead of w, you have a dash on the roller on your mouse. Instead of a cooldown put it on a resource bar like rumbles heat. Using it will have you strafe either towards or away from your cursor location depending on the direction you spin the wheel, and you can use it as long as you have resource for it. You can still auto and use abilities while strafing.
Right click will be to auto like normal, but it will replace e if you double click. Doing so will shoot a bolt that will ricochet once off the first obstacle hit, whether it be terrain or an enemy. The ricochet direction is angle dependent. Both the main shot and the ricochet will apply on hit effects, but the ricochet will be slower and deal less damage than the main shot.
Replace r with space bar. Using your ult will grant you vision of your marked targets while it is activated. It's a channel like jhin ult, so you can't move while using it. Your vision will zoom out on the map while casting, and you'll have 1 second to make your first cast. You shoot a missile in the direction of your choosing (it damages minions and champions) If you hit a marked target, the missile stops and you have 0.5 seconds to redirect the missile. As long as you hit a marked target, you can continue to redirect until all marks are consumed. You can cancel the channel at any time.
Not sure if balanced, but you could make a kind of strafing trick shooter.
They're impossible to make: Riot release Zeri a caster ADC xD
I believe you can make another adc caster but more unique. My idea would be to make the adc caster also shape-shifter where they can alternate between single target damage or aoe debuff and small damage. Idea is similar to ezreal where q is a skill shot that deals on hit damage but also their e place a clone like zed but that can be harm and last forever but will die if too far away and that clone also launches a q but for less damage until max rank where it will deal full damage and the w will switch. Q turns into an aoe damage that heals when a champion is hit but heals less the more champions it hits(will heal 100% from 1 champion and more champions hit the heal will decrease to 5%) and e instead of copying q will do nothing and instead will detonate slowing based on how much ad you have when you use e again in aoe form but it will dash in the direction you choose. And for the ult and aoe knockback that changes you back in to single target if in aoe form or a a skill shot that applies and amplfying slow and creates a clone in front of the target but staying in single target form. Honestly would make word document of each ability in detail
I mean, they did tease a champ with different Auto attacks on the roadmap, maybe a guy (or a girl, idk) that actually has some kind of ammo system and has a minigun? That would be.... interesting, to say the least.
Wether it works out or not it's up to the champ and the players.
like jhin?
@@sakutaro3musik486 They wanted to rebuild AA for this champ. Jhin, graves, kalista etc. have it modified not rebuild. They are going to throw away the AA idea and make another one as i assume.
I'm looking forward to it. The champ i designed elsewhere in this comment section was trying to do my own take on how that might happen
@@sakutaro3musik486 I think it might be a "charge mechanic" because of the eletricity-related images we got for the champ, so yeah, kinda like Jhin or Graves.
Ok this will be a long one but I've thought for a while so bare with me
so and adc with a passive causing him to have 50% attack speed recovery so the first auto would be a regular auto but it would take twice the time to fire out another so you'd either have to auto cancel with abilities or auto once after abilities.
Q would be the main source of damage being like a spammable maybe 4 second scaling to 2 second ability cooldown its a projectile similar to Ezreal but thinner and faster, doing damage and slows for like 5%
W would be another skill shot but much thicker and slower that pierces minions and monsters and champions damaging and marking them all (not much damage) then any character marked by w is hit by q they will be rooted for like 1.5 scaling to 2 seconds and the mark will be consumed (cooldown 15 scaling to 11)
E is a fun one, pressing e would create a gadget on the ground at the cursor and he can have three on the ground at a time (with a range of like standard auto attack range so not too far) and after about 6 seconds the gadget would activate allowing you yo click on it and dash to it releasing a small ring of damage where you are and where you dash to and marking them with W mark (enemies can walk over these gadgets to destroy them and gain maybe 15 gold for doing so (cooldown 8 scaling to 6 seconds)
R causes all marked enemies after a delay (3 seconds) to release a ring of energy that damages and roots all nearby enemies but not themselves (marked enemies can still be hit if they are near other marked enemies and minions and monsters marked also release the charge)
Idunno who he/she is thematically but I'm thinking like a gadgeteer from piltover or zaun
So there it is. My humblest attempt to create a unique caster marksman, even though he does kinda seem a bit like ezreal idk.
what do you people think?
P.S ty for reading Its a bit long for a comment
So, here is my idea for a caster masksman :
**Explains idea**
Easy, see? I know its a bit off but possible! Hope u liked it.
many caster marksmen use projectiles and linear projectiles that originate from them, so one way to make a unique caster marksman have ground targeted abilities that lack a projectile.
Also many caster marksmen are defined by ability to take quick shots over and over and keep moving, so if you made a caster that was all about setting up zones and dedicating time to build up zones of threat, that would differentiate them
Another way is to allow them some method of detaching the source of their damage from their own position while still maintaining an importance on positioning. For instance if they could craft a puppet of sorts that they can cast their abilities from. Perhaps the puppet is their shadow or their spirit (which would help keep the concept falling into the "my pet is more important than me" trap) and has free movement by has less range like 300, but u can have it dash to ur targets, and ofc cast abilities from it.
Another method is to give them very short range, but landing abilities gives them stacks to increase their basic attack range
Ive made quite a few kits, and 1 features a voodoo archer who can push out her spirit and attack from different angles with it. Once they have landed enough cursed attacks on the enemy they can pull the ENEMY spirit which is connected via a tether. If they shoot a projectile thru any tether it deals damage. Additionally they can set traps which apply hard CC to enemies and their Spirits, and they can make any spirit they wish dash to a target point.
Serious Question: Couldn't Ashe also be considered a hybrid crit on-hit Marksman as her kit does incentivize to build crit due to her passive?
I love Ashe's simplicity yet weirdness
@@haroldtan7806 agreed
Here's my Idea and Abilities for Caster Marksman.. i hope you notice this Vars..
Q ability: A spamable long-range instant cast projectile bullet that shoots sorta like lasers that converts attack speed into physical damage and can also crit just like a regular basic attack
(Cd: 3 seconds)
W ability: drops a smoke grenade that is a projectile that deals burst damage that explodes on contact with enemies or walls, and blinds enemies it hits in an aoe and will still get blinded if they stay in the smoke, the smoke lasts for 3 seconds and deals tick damage target in the smoke.. Slows enemies for 90% for 1 second and All enemies it hits will give the enemies get a debuff, and the debuff will make you and your team see those said heroes even if they aren't in vision for 6 seconds.. and all physical damage that they will receive from him and his teammates with that said duration will be amplified (I don't care how much since I'm just suggesting here.. hahaha) and still explodes in max range even if he didn't hit enemy champions or walls. if enemies enters the smoke they'll only get the blind and the tick damage in the smoke the burst damage because of explosion and the debuff won't work.. and unlike the other abilities in this kit that converts attack speed into damage.
This ability acts like a real basic attack making it's projectile speed faster when you buy attack speed items..
(Cd: 12-11-10-9)
E ability: a slow dash that is also an untargettable at the same time, but you can still cast abilities and basic attack during that said dash and untargettability.
During the dash, the cast range of the all abilities but his E ability and his basic attack will increase during the dash.
The ability doesn't scale off of any stats but only reduces the cooldown and increases the cast range of all of his other abilities but the E ability per level.. Because all of his spells scales in stats and is too OP if this ability also scales off of stats..
It's a very slow dash so don't use it as a get out of jail free card despite it's decent range because it's meant to be used offensively, and even defensively... Just don't use this ability to escape.. because believe me..
IT'S VERY SLOW!
It's only 5% faster than his movement speed but it's one of the slowest dashes despite it having a decent range...
Also you can press the skill again if you wanna stop..
(Cd: 18-17-16-15 seconds per level)
Passive: is a double basic attack that only works when you cast your spells
The first basic attack is like your q ability but it's basic attack, they both have the same range as the q ability and unlike regular basic attacks, it's dodgeable. But to compensate for that. It's also an instant cast aoe bullet that also shoots like a laser compared to your regular basic attacks, and the second attack in your passive.
The second attack is when you throw a mini grenade that deals a small circular aoe damage that also slows and deals more damage the less hp the enemy has and reset the q ability when the second basic attack hits. (I intentionally made the Q ability super low on cooldown since you can cancel your second basic attack).
Both double basic attack enjoys crit scaling and
both attacks deal stronger damage than the regular basic attack..
2nd passive: your basic attacks won't scale off of attack speed since you're scaling attack speed with your abilities, not your basic attacks
Ultimate: it's a global ability that throws a huge and fast grenade in a decent aoe range that also converts attack speed into physical damage, deals more damage the smaller the enemy's hp has, it still deals huge damage when it hits but it deals stronger damage when enemy's hp is lower.. and the farther the grenade hits the bigger his damage gets.. and can technically one shots most low health/durability enemy champions even if they had full health in the late game when you successfully hit those said enemies across the map.
(Cd: 180-150-120 seconds scales with level)
Ultimate Passive: when enemy's hp turns below 15-20-30% hp (scales with level) you and your teammates will see them on the map and everytime you kill someone, your current ultimate cooldown will reduce to 20%.
the champions killed by your ult also counts.
Champion lore-
He's a champion from Zaun, He's an elf, but got experimented upon.. he lost almost all of his magical ability and mobility along with his long ears in exchange for power and a unique ability that can sense people who are injured. He still is weak in durability and strength and even if he had that said unique ability the scientist still deemed him useless (the stats the scientist wanted from him so that he can be what the scientist deemed as perfect weapon and a perfect elf counterpart unlike those typical dark elves, and the scientist wanted and elf with were elves with strength and durability.) That's why the scientist thrown him away like trash.. He uses what the scientist has given to him that's why he became a mercenary in Zaun.. and the elves is disgusted at him because he's the perversion of the real elves because he doesn't have the long ears and is buffer and had way too many scars compared to the regular elves who are slim and clean. That's why he hated the real elves with a passion... he trained so hard to become what the scientist wanted from him, and grenades are his favorite.. he wanted to kill the scientist that experimented on him so that he can conquer his trauma but alas, Dr. Mundo already beat him to it.. He still has magic but is extremely weak and he's stronger than regular elves because of the experiment and training.
He might be stronger and buffer than well trained humans but not enough to be called a perfect weapon. And is surviving while hiding his true identity from the world. Specially elves because of the trauma he had.. not being able to conquer it..
°
°
To be continued.
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I wanna put a lore/story on his spells but I'm not making a champion, I'm just giving suggestions.. i would give you the lore for them if you see this and like it, but bruh.. you're right.. it's so hard making a caster marksman.. and this is the best i can do..
My idea for this Caster Marksman is to make all of his spells to scale on attack speed while regular basic attacks don't...
Don't get me wrong, he still deals huge damage with basic attacks. BUT relies heavily with abilities since you don't have the attack speed to basic attack your way out. Since his abilities scales off of attack speed and not basic attacks.. That's why i came up with these abilities and passive.
To be honest i want him melee in the first place because it would be perfect with his E.. i want his E to like.. be Ranged while if you don't use your E, then you're Melee and it's the same with his passive (the passive turns his basic attack ranged.. and vise versa if there's no passive..) and his melee basic attack will obviously be backed up with a dedicated passive for his melee attacks.
And will also work out with the lore of this hero that I've thought of..
I am thinking that it would be badass if he uses 3 weapons-(Sniper, grenade and a Dagger) but alas.. you said it's a caster marksman.. hahaha
Nice idea man
@@jaishkhan7442 Thanks Bro..
Ah yes, Caster Marksmen. Gotta be one of my favorite genders.
I mean with how wonky passives are now anyways, they could just build one that prevents the champ from being able to build too good of an AA so they can balance out the skills.
An example could be: an auto that's effectively an ability itself, perhaps it's a charging auto that scales by reducing charge time with movement, casting spells, or scales the charge time down with CDR.
Could also be a charged weapon where you have to take aim first, which changes the attack cadence to fire > aim/charge > fire and so on - in this version maybe you can choose with the charge shot to have a really strong auto, or it interacts with the skills which consume the charge.
They've shown they aren't afraid to break a few things in the champ design process or mess with the game engine itself to get things working, so anything is really possible, it would just feel very alien compared to the rest of the game like Aphelios did - I mean the guy gets his own UI.
Imagine if vayne could apply silver bolts to multiple targets. akshan: hold my beer
Riot: you weren't spose to do that.
Riot: let's nerf aurelion sol
2 years later riot did a artillery mage called smolder😂
And then zeri was dropped
.... ill give it a shot.
Passive: each time champion dashes he places a shade that last 12 seconds. If in range shades also autoattack.
q: You dash a distance.
w: you fire a distance in front of you a aoe projectile that marks them with an on hit effect for some amount of time.
e: you dash towards another shade.
R: your shades now have infinite range and you can dash to them 3 times.
Like. I'm not sure if its a caster really but its something.
What is an AP Varus? I thought he would be a caster with his Q and three blight stacks?
I guess he's more of a poke mage, not caster adc.
A hybrid, much like Sivir, since they both have builds that exploit their ability damage and their basic attacks. Varus is a hybrid of caster and on-hit basic attacker, with a spectrum of full caster being lethality, half basic attacks half caster with AP, and full basic attacks with on-hit.
so i was thinking of a concept from a mobile MOBA game I used to play. Basically this adc would be rather like a normal long-ranged attacker, but with a twist being 1. he can't crit, his crit changes to ad and 2. the brunt of his damage would come from his long-ranged snipes. So he have this gun that needs to aim for a while before being completely precise (otherwise it would just go off randomly), has insane range (artillery ult range) and have a bullet mechanic. He needs to max the ability to get more charges. One ability lets him put indestructible wards that gives true sight in an area, one gives him a brief invisibility while inactive (hugging a wall), revealing him whenever he use autos or offensive abilities. Ult lets him dash a small distance (on a regular ult cooldown) and passively slows enemies hit by his first ability.
Credit goes to Elsu in Arena of Valor, the champion that has all of this in his kit
Why wasn't akshan mentioned in this video isn't he exactly the monstrosity you're describing? A ranged ad assassin with heavy damage in both abilities, utilities, and autos?
an example of a character that would be an interesting caster marksman might be this, not saying the numbers are balancedbut just the general idea.
passive - compounding dread, each successful auto marks target up to 3 times. stacks effect w,e,r. autos have .5 scaling
Q - Branching destruction, launches 3 line projectiles in a v shape at close range which closes in the longer you send the ability till its a single line slightly wider than a single shot. applies on hit effects. target(s) have 3 stacks of compounding dread deal bonus damage in a very small circle encompassing target. 4/2.5/1.5 sec cooldown 70/75/80% ad scaling
W- wicked strafe, line damaging projectile that dashes caster in opposite direction of blast. enemies hit by blaster are ignited. if enemy has 3 marks and is hit by blast knock back target if they hit a wall deal extra damage and stun for .25 sec. if 3 stacks enemy is hit by caster during during dash enemy is stunned for duration of the dash and is knocked back slightly farther than character. (imagine poppy dash) 10 sec cooldown. shot 80% ad, into wall deals 50%, hit by caster 60% ad scaling
E- murderous intent, circle targeter places glowing area on floor which explodes after 2.5 seconds, slowing enemies caught inside. pressing E after a short delay while Murderous intent is active detonates the ability early. if enemies have 3 stacks then feared from center of ability not slowed 12/10/8 sec. cooldown 80% ad 20%ap /90%ad 25%ap /110 ad 25%ap
R- tentacular touchdown, circle targeter, caster slams tentacles down at targeter dealing damage and slowing enemies, then after short delay caster is leaped to spot autos nearest enemy. if enemy with 3 marks is caught in initial slam stun briefly and auto instead deals % of targets max health. 2 charges, 24/20/16 sec cooldown each
70/80/90%ad, 5/8/10% Max health
Corki needs to get reworked regardless. His model is so bad, lol.
Ikr his moustache is just two big worms
@@glizzygladiator9746 Frankly, I’m surprised that he wasn’t mentioned in the VGU poll (with Nocturne, Shyvana, Quinn, Dr. Mundo, and Udyr).
@@namishusband818 yeah ikr its pretty weird that riot just forgot about him
@@namishusband818 Corki is boring as fuck.
The only thing he does is farm in early game. Much like TF and he doesn’t get a model update either. All Corki does is farm cull farm tear and then after 20 minutes into the game you can talk about doing dmg and even then you have to not go in cuz you will get yourself killed in a matter of a second.
As a Corki main, I can tell you that he is absolutely playable and not at all outdated. He is one of the strongest mid- to lategame champions and the package is very unique and deals tons of damage.Its just an incredible underrated champion.
His model is pretty old and clunky though, but you can say that about like 75% of the champions.
Actually nowadays the most optimized skill rotation for Lucian is auto, E, auto, W, auto, Q, auto, Ult...
call her zeri
You mentioning Aphelios turret made me think of something that may be interesting.
So I came up with a champion that has a turret/spawnable entity as an ultimate, that ultimate is unlocked at level 1 (like karma), it has a fairly short cooldown (like 20-30 sec) and it just repositions the turret. The turret exists for about 15 sec, it just permanently shoots in front of it(like rumble/korki, but with a bit longer range). The q has a stack passive and adjusts the direction the turret is facing, it also has a pretty short cooldown, your aa's and the turret both give stacks of the passive, but the aa do it slower even at high attack speed. At max stacks turret starts to autolock to targets and stays on field forever, until replaced or stops receiving stacks for some time. W is a skill shot that knocks enemies back a very short distance (like a sol ult), after casting it, the turret will deal aoe damage around itself. E is a skill shot from you and your turret (like zed shadow) that will slow enemies, if you don't have a turret placed it will also give you a bit of movement speed if hits an enemy. Also this ability will trade all your stacks for additional damage, but it may remove the turret, if it was in battle for a long time. The passive is that your turret scales only from the ult level and the amount of legendary/mythic items you have. That may help with bad itemization problems. So your basic ability rotation looks like this:
Ult -> q several times to stack passive -> e and w to lock down enemies near the turret. So, does it even resemble a caster marksman?
So basically ADC Orianna.
I like it
Vars: There’s no way you can design another caster marksman as it’s already been done. You would have to make an Ezreal clone
Riot: hold my beer
One idea would be a mini Jhin ult. You would enter a state in which you can't auto attack, but can sling skillshots at the enemy.
Like, for the sake of it, visualize Jinx. She would shoot normaly with the mini gun, and when she has an ability called "Fishbones!" where she switches to her bazookah, disabling her own auto attacks for a fixed duration, during which recasting the ability makes her shoot a missile in the target direction at a mana cost (like corki's ult). And using her other abilities like Zap! or Chompers will instantly disable Fishbones and go back to Pow-Pow (Of course, she would be able to ult while having fishbones out, but she could still do it with PowPow).
Something you failed to mention was how all 4 caster marksmen can still auto-attack in between their ability casts (like any other adc)
But if you limit this, where you create moments where the champ can "disable" its auto attacks (like Jhin's ult), suddenly the design doors open to thousands of possibilities!
(Though, having a traditional adc that can turn into machine gun ezreal at the press of a button may have its own balancing problems, meaning it would need some pretty heavy downsides...)
Who's that in the middle?
Demon cowboy or something lucian skin
High Noon Lucian skin. Skin's pretty dope.
I present to you Freya, Chronos, and Olorun from Smite. Of course, Smite separates physical and magical character itemization entirely, disallowing hybrid builds. But that also allows them to focus on new ways to use magic damage and items. Magic damage gods have a set, small amount of scaling magic damage added to their basic attacks (30% of magic power i think) but the marksmen style mages have abilities that increase that scaling in some way. Olorun even enables his basic attacks to crit after building enough magic damage. But as once of the other commenters said, the way league is built mechanically limits how they can design champions within their archetypes.
*laughs nervously in Senna main*
I think lethality/Q build varus should be counted as a caster ADC given his reliance on abilities to deal the lion's share of his damage when built that way. otherwise, he's an on-hitter
He doesn't have a dash though, and his ult isn't a damage dealer ability so
He does mention Sivir, which is basically the same case as Varus. They're both hybrids, not true casters, with Sivir being a hybrid of lethality caster and full crit basic attacker, and Varus being a hybrid of lethality caster and on-hit basic attacker
"They will never have good itemization" Ezreal can buy anything
New caster ADC: a soldier/general from piltover that uses a assault rifle and his gimmick would be a gameplay that reminds games like hotline miami (btw according to the devblog the upcoming ADC will be just that)
His auto attacks would actually be melee but he wouldn't have any bonus with them like Samira does and would also be considered ranged to avoid bullshit with Botrk and sterak's.
His Q would be his main ability: you can hold Q to be slowed and quickly fire multiple extremely low damage skillshots in the cursor direction, with much shorter range than typical skillshots (maybe around 700 units). The shots CANNOT strike but apply on-hit and on-attack effects at 100% effectiveness, while having reduced healing from lifesteal/omnivamp, and work on a ammo system just like jhin/graves, but you should be able to reload manually with W.
Every single ADC in the game has at least one self peel ability/gimmick so his E could be a target melee stun or something
Can't think much about the rest of the kit but he would need some kind of movement speed buff or dash. We already have a caster adc with a skillshot that benefits from crit (samira) and the only worthwhile on-hit effect for ezreal is spellblade so we don't truly have a on-hit based caster ADC.
Here is my caster adc concept:
Kindred but instead of the W being boring and passive it works like orianna Q moving the wolf around. Autos, Q and E near wolf causes wolf to bite the hit enemy like lucians extra shot.
Final proc of E automatically moves wolf to the target for a guaranteed bonus strike. Passive stacks increase wolfs bonus attack radius.
How caster it ends up being depends on how heavily you tune the damage between kindred and the wolf. All wolf is ad azir with one soldier, all kindred is just a lucian sidegrade. Somewhere in the middle could be really interesting imo and make a champion thats already fun even more fun. If youre riot and like overloading kits you could even add an interaction with the R
0:00 THANK YOU. FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS THAT THE AD IN ADC IS FOR THE ATTACKS AND NOT JUST BC IT BUILDS AD.