@@davemi00 I just think they need a designated area, such as a separate building or wing. Treat it like a grocery store, meat is by meat, fruits are by fruit, etc. And only one entrance and one exit, so every customer has to walk by every vender.
It is but i also think by incorporating the food vendors and artisans your introducing other customers to other products. Somebody might go there for the food vendor or artisan and discover good farm fresh food and it works the other way around also.
Great description of the situation and issues, Pete. First, it looks like your pavilion is a great building and quite big. Second, it seems like the two customer bases could be served at different times, that may overlap, e.g., farmers get say, 8:30am - 2pm, while food vendors/artisans open at 11:30am and run until close. This would allow grocery-only shoppers to get in and out in the morning, while the art shoppers could have the afternoon. The food vendors could pull from both customer bases during the overlap. Lastly, my advice to the market board is to not throw the baby out with the bath water - you all have a great thing going. Lots of customers with money and lots of vendors with products. Classic supply and demand that will sort itself out. Don’t let COVID slow you down, rather figure out to work with it. Good luck to all involved.
Pete, you explained it so clearly, and genuinely from your heart, that I truly feel your pain. I think you chose the correct action, by not joining the angry mob. Let’s hope the situation will flatten again, and the bad blood will be pushed aside by a better financial change. We pray for you guys. Thanks for sharing!!
Thank you for sharing we visited Ithaca's market when our daughter was at Cornell, loved it everything was organized and ran well. The food vendors and farmers were intermixed and live music, can't say enough about what a good time we had. Since then we have joined our farmers market selling grass fed beef. This year has been just like yours, up and down, social distancing and rearranging along with weekly visits from our health department. We are all trying to adjust, but it's not easy, patience is definitely the game. I am truly worried about the future, what happens if we experience a meat shortage again from lack of processors, and regulation on food vendors and producer gets even more stringent. Our customers are important to us as we are to them and most all of the markets are trying hard to keep everyone safe. Tension is rising for all of us. We are essential to our communities!
Pete, It is comforting to hear a true voice of reason it these strange time. This was a common sense approach to air a problem. The solution is not easy one as you said. From the video the answer may be to have Farmers on one day and the art's and food on the next could be a real solution and a win/win for all. A few years ago our Farmers Market was "revitalized" and updated. It is still a disaster and looks like something from downtown except for no Starbucks or Amazon hub. Lots of empty spaces.
I’m just getting over covid and went by the book about distance, wearing masks, washing and sanitizing hands and even went to grocery store early in the morning when there were less people. Our farmers markets have been shut down. Covid has been very tough on me, I’m 68. But I’m coming out of it after 16 days. I wish our farmers market would open back up. I mean the local Wal mart is open, the grocery stores are open. It’s disturbing to see unnecessary change because of covid or any other reason.
My farmer's market segregated the farm products section from the other crap, with two different queues, which kept the paying customers apart from the lookie lous and hippie dipshits and kept lines much shorter for the paying customers.
I'd like to see the market open all day on Saturday. As in all day. Give the produce folks the first five hours then bring in everyone else from 3-8 pm. A farmers market should cater to the farmer first, sometimes market managers need to be reminded of that and why it's called a "farmers" market.
Well said (hope to visit Ithaca someday) - I can’t help think that if you keep speaking like this Pete, you are setting yourself up as a leader for the issues. All the best and May cooler heads prevail 😀🇨🇦
When I go to a Farmer's Market, I expect to shop local produce and proteins. When I go to an Arts and Crafts fair, I expect to see local artisans. Artisans at a Farmer's Market is a nice-to-have, but not why I went to the Farmer's Market. Same goes for Arts and Crafts shows--I expect to see a lot of artisans, but not many farmers, but if one is there, what a nice bonus. Ithica's problem is they are calling your set up a Farmer's Market but have given a lot of the real estate to artisans. Oops. The prepared food folks--they have the best of both worlds whether they are at a Farmer's Market or an Art Fair. So, if yours is a Farmer's Market, allowing Artisans to participate is a courtesy to those folks. If they want that transient traffic, set up a weekly Arts and Crafts market right down the road! The food vendors can pick their location based on the population they wish to target, they truly have it best either way they go. Keep the Farmer's priorities focused on the Farmer's priorities and customers. If an Artisan wishes to vend at the Farmer's Market, then they comply with the conditions set for Farmers and so be it. Using the car analogy, I can't put Toyota car doors on a Dodge car and expect perfect results just because a door is called a door. That is truly the solution, a Farmer's Market where the focus is on local foods and an Arts and Crafts fair focusing on local artisans. Anything else is unsatisfactory. Be safe, be well, stay healthy.
That's people for you! Common sense always goes out the window when self interest takes over, which i guess is why teamwork really is a fairy story. Some clever bloke once said... 'You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time'. Another excellent vid Pete :)
Just like all your videos Pete absolutely fabulous thank you and I don't think I'll ever make it to the Ithaca market I live about 90 miles south of Chicago so I don't see that ever happening. However I do hope things get better for you and your family and I wish you the best always. Thank you for all the uplifting videos because I do think all of your videos are interesting educational and uplifting. Thank you again and bless you.
Listening to you talk, I suspect, the bulk of your customers want your products, and would find them no matter where you are. Maybe I'm just an ornery old so & so, but in the best of times I don't think I would tolerate the 20+ page rule book etc. Two words came to my mind when I heard your description: "planned economy".
I hope it all works out we need to keep these organizations going to help our small farmers and to nave the ability to get good fresh food and supplies
I think your right Pete, discussion with all the members is the only way to come up with a plan, sure not everyone will be happy but at the end of the day it really not anyone’s fault, it’s the virus and we have to try to find a way to work.
That’s so very unfortunate about the market. Yes, it’s a farmers market. However, the food artisans play a very important role in it. People come and do their shopping and hang out and have a great experience and they want to eat some of the prepared food from a food artisan. The food artisans will attract business. There should’ve been food artisans on the Saturdays as well.
I agree with you against building a new pavilion. There is an energy when the place is crowded. It’s part of the attraction. Energy, positive energy and excitement is taken out of the market if you tear down the old one and build bigger. It will seem as though there are less people and it’s not as popular, Among other points.
The big market in my area has multiple separate buildings. Good vendors are mostly kept to good trucks and concession trailers outside the market. Farm stuff, meat, veggies and stuff are in one building and all the garage sale type crap is in a separate building, and also outside during the summer months.
I go to the Ithaca Farmers market every Sat. I'm a local, and I want to get most of my weekly groceries directly from the farmer, not a middleman. That saying, I do buy some tea and something for breakfast, my future lunch there, too. During regular years (no pandemic) I'd also pick up baked goods, (bread, pastries) for my week, also. One of the other reasons locals go early is that what you want to get may be sold out by the time 11 rolls around. This is especially true of "flash foods", cherries, peaches, strawberries, etc. I've gone later (12-1) to find that it becomes slim pickings by then. A friend and I go now, and when I stood in line for 20 minutes (9-9:20), my friend didn't go in, but asked me to pick up what she needed. Then she announced we would be going earlier. As you said, it is a bad thing all together, but I agree that a "new shiny" pavilion is not the answer.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion! And you have such a great way of lining up the facts and are intelligent enough to see all sides. Hang in there! This is a touch issue I’m fortunate enough to not have to deal with in our small market but I’m sure many markers are suffering the same issues. Good luck!
Very interesting and well presented discussion. The pandemic has had a practice of exacerbating a variety of tensions and conflicts that for years have lingered just below the surface. How we deal with them will say a lot about our society and how much we really want to be in a democracy together. Even in some of the other comments, politics has started to enter into the discussion, which is what you really don't want. Again, I appreciate the challenges you face, and your discussion of the issues is very well framed. Thank you.
We quit doing markets 10 years ago. It was a GREAT experience and it got our name out there. But other aspects of the farm changed / grew and I had to pay people to do the markets, which means I'm just doing the markets to pay salaries of employees, not me, due to sales were half when I wasn't there. The key was getting our info to the customers, getting to know them. What we've done for one market, is we park in various parking lots and offload orders within a block or two from the market. No more restrictions on what we can sell etc.... You're almost there Pete, just get a store section set up on your website. Keep going to the market for now, and giving out that info and offer it up as a way to help people avoid the complications of the maret. ASK PEOPLE TO BRING YOU NEW CUSTOMERS ALSO!
Hi Tom, good for you! I've often wondered how farms can afford to pay employees to man market booths, and the loss of sales they must experience when customers don't see the farm's owners anymore. I know at least a few at the Ithaca market are paying employees to be there because they've had it with sitting around in the afternoons at the market. One thing these comments have made me think about more seriously is setting up alternate channels to sell our products. Thank you for the great ideas.
Thanks for sharing Pete! I really hope you and the various groups can come to a mutually beneficial agreement. I think like farms, fields and forests, you need diversity in your market for long term health and growth. Best of luck 👍
Great content. Our farmers market got shut down by the county health department. They put a cap of 250 people including vendors for the entire market. No way to make that work. And yes drama was everywhere with similar tensions that you experienced. Farmers responded by spreading out at different locations and having multiple mini markets or selling at the homesteads.
Hi Farmer Mark, I also wonder if setting up smaller markets would help the locals feel more comfortable and less hassled. That's on my mind more and more these days.
Just a Few Acres Farm, yes small pop up locations seemed to work well for larger vendors that had a variety of produce for one stop shopping. Also worked well with those that had CSA web sights established and could expand that with pre paid, drive through pick up.
It's called human nature lol . Sometimes the best deal we can work out is when both parties walk away unequal happy. I really enjoy your videos Pete thanks for all you do and letting us in a bit of yalls life.
Try a putting a booth along the road just at the entrance of your farm. This way you can sell your eggs,meat and poultry products to passing by customers even in weekdays. Still open your stall in farmer's market in saturday
Fabulous content once again. I'll tune in next week for the Murder Mystery outcome. It's too bad that you cannot connect with your customers right at the farm. Would make things so much easier, if only to eliminate a 20-pages-plus document of guidelines. Keith-
Here in Ontario (and the states), we are doing local line a online farmers market, for customers to prepay & pickup when it's best for them!). Most of the crafters are not allowed into the market scene (unless they sell soap/masks or similar items). Distancing & capacity limits are there, even outdoors. I love your vendor to actual farmers mix & the system to get in and a 25page booklet. You guys rock! We need to take our business online. As do many other vendors and yours. No worries, once this is over there will be opportunities once this pestilence is rid from the land! Great job but. Love the channel! P.s. thank god for the RAIN.. finally, it was brutal up here! How about you guys down there?
In 5 years these restrictions will be either ridiculed or swept under the carpet. It's a real shame that good decent people like yourself and the other vendors are on the receiving end of it. Seeing those spread out lines of masked up people really is too depressing to comprehend.
I was going back through some of your old videos and ran across this one. I thought it was done very well the first time I saw it. Have you thought about doing an update as to what is happening with the Farmers Market? It would be interesting to hear about it.
My state remained open and especially the farmers markets.Most people here wanted to shop at the farmers market instead of the big box store.I thank goodness every day our governor had good sense.
Pete - excellent, provocative video. The fact that medical, social, and economic issues have become politicized just makes solutions harder to find. You've given this home-bound 83y-o a new layer to my daily prayers. :)
Hi Barbara, thank you! I can't believe how much science and medicine get politicized these days. My wife is a nurse and is enraged over it. It saddens me and I believe it hurts America greatly.
Ha!! The video I saw before this was you at the market a year ago. I introduced myself in comments and asked how covid affected everything. Next up was this video answering my question! This year has been a gut punch to the to the world as a whole. Like you said, we can't rush into costly changes. It might take another year, but we will return to...well, normal.😓
It's not only the farmers markets facing these problems. Big box retailers, malls and every other seller is facing the same problems. And, sorry to say it's not going away soon. The ones that succeed will adapt the others will disappear. There are lots of things you can try. Specific appointment times for regulars. Prepackaged orders for customers that are willing to order from their cellphones. Wrist bands for a specific time allotments. Putting the food vendors in a seperate area. Just to name a few. I think the issues with expanding are overblown. If the market is an asset to the community, then local officials and code enforcement should be happy to work with you to maintain the character and they make exceptions to code rules all the time. The worst things you can do are try to stay the same when conditions are changing. If you're not willing to be part of the solution than you certainly can't complain when it doesn't work out to your satisfaction.
Hi Nathan, there's some good ideas there! I'm not sure local officials view the market as an asset to the community; there's a long history there as well. As far as making exceptions to the code, in my 20 years as an architect I saw very few made, and I can count on one hand the formal code variances granted, usually via the complex mechanism of an appeal to a state board. The market's designation as a place of public assembly brings down a whole host of additional code requirements that are strictly enforced. Being nimble through change is a hallmark of a successful small business. I'm not sure the competing interests of the market members allow the market to be as nimble as it needs to be in these times.
There is another option, albeit quite a change from these issues. Band together with a few of your other trusted suppliers at the market and hire a salesman. That may sound drastic, bear with me a minute. A salesman would work on commission. No sales no pay. He would bear the cost of sales (booth rental, web site maintenance etc). Right now you spend 85% of the time producing the product and 15% selling. Use that 15% to pay a professional A salesman would be spending 100% of his working time selling. If he's smart and creative he'll open markets that might be difficult for you to enter. If he could sell a variety of products from a few local producers he has a constantly changing inventory (what salesmen call "turn and earn"). The point is; From what I've seen of your videos, you want to be a great farmer. Focus on that and give up a little to have someone else do the balance.
Very interesting. On “our Wyoming life” they were the main vendor at the farm market. But quit and opened a store at the front of there farm . Of course for them being on main highway. It seems to work for them . Having to pack products back forth seems the biggest drawback to farmers market?
Hi Tim, I watch OWL too. My sense is that was a pretty small farmers market. Packing takes me about an hour the day before market, then there is loading & unloading the truck on market day.
A great video Pete and you explained very clearly the markets problems i would think this pertains to all farmers markets world wide ,like the shirt,keep safe still a lot of virus out there .
Thankyou Pete sadly I have not gone too my farmers market , Know I am very glad .The whole covid thing is stressful . Welcome to modern Life . Us city folks have know idea , if this continues we will be out of farmers and food . Thankyou what you do .
Have you looked into having an open air market at your place to sell your goods ? Years ago my dad had a similar experience and he decided to opened his own market on our farm, did pretty good at it too
Hi Pete I wish you could see ours farmers market we are the biggest farmers markets in Canada we are massive we get thousands of customers weekly long weekend we get 30 to 35 thousand people you can imagine what we go through
Pete, stay safe as a priority understanding human nature is close to being at its ugliest stage due to so much self centered behaviors we see in whole cracks of society components. It’s beyond a market issue.
Who would have thought that there was a really good reason why most grocery stores are not located where all their customers are forced to navigate through an entire shopping mall, and yet every successful shopping mall tries to entice a major grocery store to anchor one end of it.
The food vendors would probably make more money if they set up temporary stalls right next to the lines to get in. People will be hungry, thirsty, and bored. Then that allows more room inside the pavilion and the customers would be more likely to be okay with waiting. It’s what most theme parks do, put food vendors next to large lines. though they might buy less produce if they aren’t hungry, like if you go to the grocery store on a full stomach.
Maby if they make a second pavilion one can be for the farmers and the type of costumers they attract. The other one for the other people for their costumers. This means the costumers can choose where they go based on what they want and it will be less crowded, but also the sellers won’t have the specific times and have other potential costumers scared off.
Idea. Can't you have prepared food vendor booths facing outside the pavilion, with no sales from the inside? This would minimize the lines since the only people "entering" the covered space would be locals shopping local farm goods. You could further ease the inside crowd pressure by allowing hardgoods vendors to set up outside, along where lines naturally form, funneling people into the entrances. Sort of how there's tee-shirt stalls on your way into a concert. It would increase impulse buys.
Great video Pete, sorry to hear about the difficulties at the market. I currently live in southern Delaware but am planning to retire in about 18 months and establish a small farm to supplement my income stream. I already keep laying hens and bees and sell market veggies on a small scale. Tompkins County is one of the places I've been considering retiring to and I've actually read the Ithaca Farmer's Market rulebook/handbook online. I got the impression that it was a complex, yet well run market system and have been planning a trip up there to check things out. I know that mixed vendor markets often have underlying tensions, but it sounds like things have really come to a head at your market. I hope the market management is able to work things out in a way that keeps the market vibrant and successful. I'm looking forward to an update at some point. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Best of luck and thanks for all the great video content.
Hi RehoKevin, thank you. I think things will settle down eventually, but even business-as-usual has its problems there. Folks in Ithaca tend to over-complicate things, and the market is no exception. On the whole, Tompkins County is a great place to live.
Beef farmers in Maryland are setting up shop on their farms using a small out building as a store front. I would think that you could do the same opening up two specif days a week. better for you, better for the customer.
I think they should have the food vendors set up along the waiting line, and have them use ingredients from the produce vendors inside to showcase their products, maybe even offer recipes to inspire customers to purchase the products once they get inside. Everyone wins.
fyi Both our Farmers' and Artists markets are usually run by a "juried" committee whose mandate is to keep the crap out. It works pretty good where I am in the Canadian Rockies, but the closer you get to big cities it gets sketchy: I asked a honey sales setup a few leading questions about beekeeping, and the millenium twins with hippie expensive gear and "the look" couldn't answer, so some slip through, but you start somewhere. It also helps that local funding has GUIDELINES that you must adhere to , so the policing is usually at the local vendor level. Asshats and scammers get noticed pretty quick.
Maybe they could set up the food venders up outside the building. The customers who come for the food can order their meal and eat outside. The customers who are there for the produce and proteins can come in the building. When The customers from the food venders are ready to shop they can stand In the Line to get In. This will keep people moving and they are not on top of each other. ????
I' assuming it's right in the name, a Farmer's Market, not a crafter's market of food vendor's. Those are there as support. Glad to have them too, but limited.
Just curious if you considered switching to a subscription model (CSA or similar) and moving away from the market. After seven years, do you have the customer base to support that full-time or do rely on "new" customers each week? We are moving to a farm in the next few months and plan to start a commercial operation, thus my question, as we consider the various sales channels. This video is the first one I've seen where someone is addressing the current environment and how it has impacted their customer-facing operations. I think you and I are the same age and the topics you address (specifically the finances and operations) are of much greater interest as we move down this path. Thank you for all of the great content!
Somone wise once said if your not happy it's time for a change..... gotta follow your heart. Advertising the farm store to the local customers might be just the anwers. Simpler is better and less is more.
Sounds like the vendors may need to split up into a few different locations. Farmers Market over here, Food Park off over there and the artisans kinda just sprinkled around ... where ever!
It is better to add on to the the building then tear down a building has has meaning and pride in its history. I believe a farmer market is a mixture of produce, cooked food and hobby type items. The problem is the limitations of people. I can tell you I would Not wait 45 to hour to get in. I would let up the food vendors and hobby vendors outside so the people could snack and buy hobby items while on line. With the farmers inside a separate line could be made for customers that want produce only.
Seemingly, the question is: shall you be a 'farmers' market or not? Possibly limiting the artisans and the food vendors to less than 10% each so farmers can sell their stocks seems a good idea.
You can hardly tell anything has changed in Michigan except everyone has to wear a mask. Most of our farmers markets are in parking lots and ran out of the back of trucks under portable tents and tables.
Hey Pete! Random left field question.. have you watched Squatch253? Him and and his Father are completely rebuilding a farmall M and it’s been a great series!! Well documented. Took me about a week of casual watching to catch up to where they are now. They are close to being rebuilt! Already put the front end back on! Again, love the rant videos. I do like seeing and hearing your opinions and relating it to my life. I have the same thoughts as you do some times about our meat market. But we can only look out for our selves! Hope to make it to Ithaca one day. We are from Texas! Thanks! -Josh
Yes I enjoy his channel, but honestly I have trouble watching it this time of year because it makes me want to pull a tractor into the shop and start restoration, but I don't have the time to do it in the summer!
Pete, love your posts, respect you entirely. As a manager, if I had someone come to me describing his dalema to me as you have in this video, I would ask him to think about what he said to me and ask him what he had not done. What would you have said to him? It seems to me that you are circling around the true problem. What is that,? Government, bureaucracy, true feelings regarding the WuFlu? You are a doer. What do you do when things are not right? Personally it appears to me that every level of “government” is using this “flu” to expand their fiefdoms with no regard to the people they serve. Ever wonder why the homeless and drug addiction population is hardly affected?
Aye DOOdad Lad, there is a heck of a lot of bureaucracy involved with the market, and I don't like bureaucracy. That massive organization does a few things right, like making sure that everything sold at the market is made or grown by the people selling it. I'm a big believer in that rule, otherwise the market would be filled with resellers and would turn into just another flea market. But otherwise, it makes everything over complicated and a pain to change anything.
Thank you for your videos! I have recently joined your channel and really enjoy your farming content videos! But a question: Do you have to stay from 10:30 AM till the market ends? Is this some kind of market's bylaw or something? Can't you just wrap up and leave earlier and do some farm chores in that time instead of waiting idly?
Hi Alirezi, That 25 page market rule book says I have to stay until the end of market, unless I sell-out (that never happens). I appealed to the board to allow vendors to leave early, but they did not grant it.
Instead of tearing down and rebuilding, why not add on, and put crafters, artisans, and food vendors in a separate building? That's what they did at a "farmers market" in Michigan. Oh, they also had a seating area for those who wanted to eat, kinda like a food court at a mall.
Pete by not getting involved your also part of the problem. I understand why your reluctant to but sometimes the end result is worth the fight. Good luck buddy
Pete - you are wise to stay out of the thick of the battle. BUT - l hope you are networking with the group most in sync with your views .. being organized may help drastic measures from being enacted. l've been on both winning and losing sides in local grassroots issues. Stay friendly as possible, today's foe might be tomorrow's ally...lt ain't ez McGee! Best, best wishes for a good solution.
It is a farmers market, not a flea market. That is my take on it.
DIY Homeowner - Let the Artisans, Build their own Market nearby.
@@davemi00 I just think they need a designated area, such as a separate building or wing. Treat it like a grocery store, meat is by meat, fruits are by fruit, etc. And only one entrance and one exit, so every customer has to walk by every vender.
@@diyhomeowner3879 this makes a lot of sense
It is but i also think by incorporating the food vendors and artisans your introducing other customers to other products. Somebody might go there for the food vendor or artisan and discover good farm fresh food and it works the other way around also.
@@NPAMike I can see that too. Maybe food on one side of the isle and artisans on the other. Not sure if it would make much difference though.
Pete, you always make sense. Hope things get better!
Great description of the situation and issues, Pete. First, it looks like your pavilion is a great building and quite big. Second, it seems like the two customer bases could be served at different times, that may overlap, e.g., farmers get say, 8:30am - 2pm, while food vendors/artisans open at 11:30am and run until close. This would allow grocery-only shoppers to get in and out in the morning, while the art shoppers could have the afternoon. The food vendors could pull from both customer bases during the overlap. Lastly, my advice to the market board is to not throw the baby out with the bath water - you all have a great thing going. Lots of customers with money and lots of vendors with products. Classic supply and demand that will sort itself out. Don’t let COVID slow you down, rather figure out to work with it. Good luck to all involved.
Thank you. I think you have a good idea there. It would save vendors some wasted time spent at market.
Pete, you explained it so clearly, and genuinely from your heart, that I truly feel your pain.
I think you chose the correct action, by not joining the angry mob.
Let’s hope the situation will flatten again, and the bad blood will be pushed aside by a better financial change.
We pray for you guys.
Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks Crazy Coyote! I hope so too.
if more folks would think like you, we would have a peaceful world. Thank you for being you ..
Thank you for sharing we visited Ithaca's market when our daughter was at Cornell, loved it everything was organized and ran well. The food vendors and farmers were intermixed and live music, can't say enough about what a good time we had. Since then we have joined our farmers market selling grass fed beef. This year has been just like yours, up and down, social distancing and rearranging along with weekly visits from our health department. We are all trying to adjust, but it's not easy, patience is definitely the game. I am truly worried about the future, what happens if we experience a meat shortage again from lack of processors, and regulation on food vendors and producer gets even more stringent. Our customers are important to us as we are to them and most all of the markets are trying hard to keep everyone safe. Tension is rising for all of us. We are essential to our communities!
Pete,
It is comforting to hear a true voice of reason it these strange time. This was a common sense approach to air a problem. The solution is not easy one as you said. From the video the answer may be to have Farmers on one day and the art's and food on the next could be a real solution and a win/win for all. A few years ago our Farmers Market was "revitalized" and updated. It is still a disaster and looks like something from downtown except for no Starbucks or Amazon hub. Lots of empty spaces.
I’m just getting over covid and went by the book about distance, wearing masks, washing and sanitizing hands and even went to grocery store early in the morning when there were less people. Our farmers markets have been shut down. Covid has been very tough on me, I’m 68. But I’m coming out of it after 16 days. I wish our farmers market would open back up. I mean the local Wal mart is open, the grocery stores are open. It’s disturbing to see unnecessary change because of covid or any other reason.
My farmer's market segregated the farm products section from the other crap, with two different queues, which kept the paying customers apart from the lookie lous and hippie dipshits and kept lines much shorter for the paying customers.
@Mr Ed made me literally lol.
Pete, I love your thoughtful synthesis. Sorry that you & your fellow business owners are having to deal with the additional frictions.
I'd like to see the market open all day on Saturday. As in all day. Give the produce folks the first five hours then bring in everyone else from 3-8 pm.
A farmers market should cater to the farmer first, sometimes market managers need to be reminded of that and why it's called a "farmers" market.
Well said (hope to visit Ithaca someday) - I can’t help think that if you keep speaking like this Pete, you are setting yourself up as a leader for the issues. All the best and May cooler heads prevail 😀🇨🇦
When I go to a Farmer's Market, I expect to shop local produce and proteins. When I go to an Arts and Crafts fair, I expect to see local artisans. Artisans at a Farmer's Market is a nice-to-have, but not why I went to the Farmer's Market. Same goes for Arts and Crafts shows--I expect to see a lot of artisans, but not many farmers, but if one is there, what a nice bonus. Ithica's problem is they are calling your set up a Farmer's Market but have given a lot of the real estate to artisans. Oops. The prepared food folks--they have the best of both worlds whether they are at a Farmer's Market or an Art Fair. So, if yours is a Farmer's Market, allowing Artisans to participate is a courtesy to those folks. If they want that transient traffic, set up a weekly Arts and Crafts market right down the road! The food vendors can pick their location based on the population they wish to target, they truly have it best either way they go. Keep the Farmer's priorities focused on the Farmer's priorities and customers. If an Artisan wishes to vend at the Farmer's Market, then they comply with the conditions set for Farmers and so be it. Using the car analogy, I can't put Toyota car doors on a Dodge car and expect perfect results just because a door is called a door. That is truly the solution, a Farmer's Market where the focus is on local foods and an Arts and Crafts fair focusing on local artisans. Anything else is unsatisfactory. Be safe, be well, stay healthy.
That's people for you! Common sense always goes out the window when self interest takes over, which i guess is why teamwork really is a fairy story. Some clever bloke once said... 'You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time'. Another excellent vid Pete :)
Just like all your videos Pete absolutely fabulous thank you and I don't think I'll ever make it to the Ithaca market I live about 90 miles south of Chicago so I don't see that ever happening. However I do hope things get better for you and your family and I wish you the best always. Thank you for all the uplifting videos because I do think all of your videos are interesting educational and uplifting. Thank you again and bless you.
Listening to you talk, I suspect, the bulk of your customers want your products, and would find them no matter where you are. Maybe I'm just an ornery old so & so, but in the best of times I don't think I would tolerate the 20+ page rule book etc. Two words came to my mind when I heard your description: "planned economy".
If life were perfect, we would hardly need rules. But life can go wrong in oh so many ways. That's why there's 25 pages.
Have done Farmers' Markets in Utah for 25 years. The words "planned economy" couldn't be said any better! Great comment!
More often than not, we’re more disturbed by the process than the final result. Time heals so many immediate frustrations.
let's examine the name: Artisans Market... nope, Food vendor market... nope...FARMERS Market... Yep... Seems simple to me.
LOL Mark! I agree. Somehow, the cart is driving the horse.
Sounds like a big headache . We don't have any markets like that close to us . We got a few tents in a parking lot . Thanks for sharing !
Great video, wisdom with compassion.
I hope it all works out we need to keep these organizations going to help our small farmers and to nave the ability to get good fresh food and supplies
Stay positive Pete. This will break sooner then later hopefully. Your amazing product will get you thru.
Pete you spoke the truth buddy I could listen to you all day if I could . Thank u
I think your right Pete, discussion with all the members is the only way to come up with a plan, sure not everyone will be happy but at the end of the day it really not anyone’s fault, it’s the virus and we have to try to find a way to work.
That’s so very unfortunate about the market. Yes, it’s a farmers market. However, the food artisans play a very important role in it. People come and do their shopping and hang out and have a great experience and they want to eat some of the prepared food from a food artisan. The food artisans will attract business. There should’ve been food artisans on the Saturdays as well.
I agree with you against building a new pavilion. There is an energy when the place is crowded. It’s part of the attraction. Energy, positive energy and excitement is taken out of the market if you tear down the old one and build bigger. It will seem as though there are less people and it’s not as popular, Among other points.
The big market in my area has multiple separate buildings. Good vendors are mostly kept to good trucks and concession trailers outside the market. Farm stuff, meat, veggies and stuff are in one building and all the garage sale type crap is in a separate building, and also outside during the summer months.
That is an entertaining story! Looking forward to your next video.
I go to the Ithaca Farmers market every Sat. I'm a local, and I want to get most of my weekly groceries directly from the farmer, not a middleman. That saying, I do buy some tea and something for breakfast, my future lunch there, too. During regular years (no pandemic) I'd also pick up baked goods, (bread, pastries) for my week, also. One of the other reasons locals go early is that what you want to get may be sold out by the time 11 rolls around. This is especially true of "flash foods", cherries, peaches, strawberries, etc. I've gone later (12-1) to find that it becomes slim pickings by then. A friend and I go now, and when I stood in line for 20 minutes (9-9:20), my friend didn't go in, but asked me to pick up what she needed. Then she announced we would be going earlier. As you said, it is a bad thing all together, but I agree that a "new shiny" pavilion is not the answer.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion! And you have such a great way of lining up the facts and are intelligent enough to see all sides. Hang in there! This is a touch issue I’m fortunate enough to not have to deal with in our small market but I’m sure many markers are suffering the same issues. Good luck!
Very interesting and well presented discussion. The pandemic has had a practice of exacerbating a variety of tensions and conflicts that for years have lingered just below the surface. How we deal with them will say a lot about our society and how much we really want to be in a democracy together. Even in some of the other comments, politics has started to enter into the discussion, which is what you really don't want. Again, I appreciate the challenges you face, and your discussion of the issues is very well framed. Thank you.
We quit doing markets 10 years ago. It was a GREAT experience and it got our name out there. But other aspects of the farm changed / grew and I had to pay people to do the markets, which means I'm just doing the markets to pay salaries of employees, not me, due to sales were half when I wasn't there.
The key was getting our info to the customers, getting to know them. What we've done for one market, is we park in various parking lots and offload orders within a block or two from the market. No more restrictions on what we can sell etc....
You're almost there Pete, just get a store section set up on your website. Keep going to the market for now, and giving out that info and offer it up as a way to help people avoid the complications of the maret. ASK PEOPLE TO BRING YOU NEW CUSTOMERS ALSO!
Hi Tom, good for you! I've often wondered how farms can afford to pay employees to man market booths, and the loss of sales they must experience when customers don't see the farm's owners anymore. I know at least a few at the Ithaca market are paying employees to be there because they've had it with sitting around in the afternoons at the market. One thing these comments have made me think about more seriously is setting up alternate channels to sell our products. Thank you for the great ideas.
Thanks for sharing Pete! I really hope you and the various groups can come to a mutually beneficial agreement. I think like farms, fields and forests, you need diversity in your market for long term health and growth. Best of luck 👍
Great content. Our farmers market got shut down by the county health department. They put a cap of 250 people including vendors for the entire market. No way to make that work. And yes drama was everywhere with similar tensions that you experienced. Farmers responded by spreading out at different locations and having multiple mini markets or selling at the homesteads.
Hi Farmer Mark, I also wonder if setting up smaller markets would help the locals feel more comfortable and less hassled. That's on my mind more and more these days.
Just a Few Acres Farm, yes small pop up locations seemed to work well for larger vendors that had a variety of produce for one stop shopping. Also worked well with those that had CSA web sights established and could expand that with pre paid, drive through pick up.
It's called human nature lol . Sometimes the best deal we can work out is when both parties walk away unequal happy. I really enjoy your videos Pete thanks for all you do and letting us in a bit of yalls life.
Try a putting a booth along the road just at the entrance of your farm. This way you can sell your eggs,meat and poultry products to passing by customers even in weekdays. Still open your stall in farmer's market in saturday
Fabulous content once again. I'll tune in next week for the Murder Mystery outcome. It's too bad that you cannot connect with your customers right at the farm. Would make things so much easier, if only to eliminate a 20-pages-plus document of guidelines.
Keith-
Here in Ontario (and the states), we are doing local line a online farmers market, for customers to prepay & pickup when it's best for them!). Most of the crafters are not allowed into the market scene (unless they sell soap/masks or similar items). Distancing & capacity limits are there, even outdoors.
I love your vendor to actual farmers mix & the system to get in and a 25page booklet. You guys rock!
We need to take our business online. As do many other vendors and yours.
No worries, once this is over there will be opportunities once this pestilence is rid from the land!
Great job but. Love the channel!
P.s. thank god for the RAIN.. finally, it was brutal up here! How about you guys down there?
In 5 years these restrictions will be either ridiculed or swept under the carpet. It's a real shame that good decent people like yourself and the other vendors are on the receiving end of it. Seeing those spread out lines of masked up people really is too depressing to comprehend.
True loyal customers.
I was going back through some of your old videos and ran across this one. I thought it was done very well the first time I saw it. Have you thought about doing an update as to what is happening with the Farmers Market? It would be interesting to hear about it.
My state remained open and especially the farmers markets.Most people here wanted to shop at the farmers market instead of the big box store.I thank goodness every day our governor had good sense.
Pete - excellent, provocative video. The fact that medical, social, and economic issues have become politicized just makes solutions harder to find. You've given this home-bound 83y-o a new layer to my daily prayers. :)
Hi Barbara, thank you! I can't believe how much science and medicine get politicized these days. My wife is a nurse and is enraged over it. It saddens me and I believe it hurts America greatly.
Pete true to your core beliefs, hope it all works out.
Ha!! The video I saw before this was you at the market a year ago. I introduced myself in comments and asked how covid affected everything. Next up was this video answering my question! This year has been a gut punch to the to the world as a whole. Like you said, we can't rush into costly changes. It might take another year, but we will return to...well, normal.😓
It's not only the farmers markets facing these problems. Big box retailers, malls and every other seller is facing the same problems. And, sorry to say it's not going away soon. The ones that succeed will adapt the others will disappear.
There are lots of things you can try. Specific appointment times for regulars. Prepackaged orders for customers that are willing to order from their cellphones. Wrist bands for a specific time allotments. Putting the food vendors in a seperate area. Just to name a few.
I think the issues with expanding are overblown. If the market is an asset to the community, then local officials and code enforcement should be happy to work with you to maintain the character and they make exceptions to code rules all the time.
The worst things you can do are try to stay the same when conditions are changing. If you're not willing to be part of the solution than you certainly can't complain when it doesn't work out to your satisfaction.
Hi Nathan, there's some good ideas there! I'm not sure local officials view the market as an asset to the community; there's a long history there as well. As far as making exceptions to the code, in my 20 years as an architect I saw very few made, and I can count on one hand the formal code variances granted, usually via the complex mechanism of an appeal to a state board. The market's designation as a place of public assembly brings down a whole host of additional code requirements that are strictly enforced. Being nimble through change is a hallmark of a successful small business. I'm not sure the competing interests of the market members allow the market to be as nimble as it needs to be in these times.
There is another option, albeit quite a change from these issues. Band together with a few of your other trusted suppliers at the market and hire a salesman. That may sound drastic, bear with me a minute. A salesman would work on commission. No sales no pay. He would bear the cost of sales (booth rental, web site maintenance etc). Right now you spend 85% of the time producing the product and 15% selling. Use that 15% to pay a professional A salesman would be spending 100% of his working time selling. If he's smart and creative he'll open markets that might be difficult for you to enter. If he could sell a variety of products from a few local producers he has a constantly changing inventory (what salesmen call "turn and earn").
The point is; From what I've seen of your videos, you want to be a great farmer. Focus on that and give up a little to have someone else do the balance.
Thanks Pete, for the insight, interesting perspective.
Very interesting. On “our Wyoming life” they were the main vendor at the farm market. But quit and opened a store at the front of there farm . Of course for them being on main highway. It seems to work for them . Having to pack products back forth seems the biggest drawback to farmers market?
Hi Tim, I watch OWL too. My sense is that was a pretty small farmers market. Packing takes me about an hour the day before market, then there is loading & unloading the truck on market day.
Have done Farmers' Markets in Utah for 25 years, and "Our Wyoming Life" Farmers Market in Gillette Wyoming looked like a joke.
A great video Pete and you explained very clearly the markets problems i would think this pertains to all farmers markets world wide ,like the shirt,keep safe still a lot of virus out there .
Brother I can see your frustrations and telling with a passion
Thankyou Pete sadly I have not gone too my farmers market , Know I am very glad .The whole covid thing is stressful .
Welcome to modern Life . Us city folks have know idea , if this continues we will be out of farmers and food .
Thankyou what you do .
Have you looked into having an open air market at your place to sell your goods ?
Years ago my dad had a similar experience and he decided to opened his own market on our farm, did pretty good at it too
I hope things improve for you all next spring. It would be interesting to see how things have changed.
Hi Pete I wish you could see ours farmers market we are the biggest farmers markets in Canada we are massive we get thousands of customers weekly long weekend we get 30 to 35 thousand people you can imagine what we go through
Wow!
Pete, stay safe as a priority understanding human nature is close to being at its ugliest stage due to so much self centered behaviors we see in whole cracks of society components. It’s beyond a market issue.
Who would have thought that there was a really good reason why most grocery stores are not located where all their customers are forced to navigate through an entire shopping mall, and yet every successful shopping mall tries to entice a major grocery store to anchor one end of it.
That is an awesome analogy!
The food vendors would probably make more money if they set up temporary stalls right next to the lines to get in. People will be hungry, thirsty, and bored. Then that allows more room inside the pavilion and the customers would be more likely to be okay with waiting. It’s what most theme parks do, put food vendors next to large lines. though they might buy less produce if they aren’t hungry, like if you go to the grocery store on a full stomach.
Maby if they make a second pavilion one can be for the farmers and the type of costumers they attract. The other one for the other people for their costumers. This means the costumers can choose where they go based on what they want and it will be less crowded, but also the sellers won’t have the specific times and have other potential costumers scared off.
Looking back, it was sad to see everyone at eachother while it should have been just the opposite. If we only realized we are all on the same team...
hope it all works itself out Pete, maybe farmers market on Saturdays and flea market on Sundays
Interesting, please keep us updated.
I think your right keep your chin up the world is changing
This is very helpful and useful. I think this video will help your market and many others. Thanks for taking the risk....
The cat likes the hay bales lol.
Idea. Can't you have prepared food vendor booths facing outside the pavilion, with no sales from the inside? This would minimize the lines since the only people "entering" the covered space would be locals shopping local farm goods. You could further ease the inside crowd pressure by allowing hardgoods vendors to set up outside, along where lines naturally form, funneling people into the entrances. Sort of how there's tee-shirt stalls on your way into a concert. It would increase impulse buys.
Great video Pete, sorry to hear about the difficulties at the market. I currently live in southern Delaware but am planning to retire in about 18 months and establish a small farm to supplement my income stream. I already keep laying hens and bees and sell market veggies on a small scale. Tompkins County is one of the places I've been considering retiring to and I've actually read the Ithaca Farmer's Market rulebook/handbook online. I got the impression that it was a complex, yet well run market system and have been planning a trip up there to check things out. I know that mixed vendor markets often have underlying tensions, but it sounds like things have really come to a head at your market. I hope the market management is able to work things out in a way that keeps the market vibrant and successful. I'm looking forward to an update at some point. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Best of luck and thanks for all the great video content.
Hi RehoKevin, thank you. I think things will settle down eventually, but even business-as-usual has its problems there. Folks in Ithaca tend to over-complicate things, and the market is no exception. On the whole, Tompkins County is a great place to live.
@@JustaFewAcresFarm Thanks Pete.
Hope everything works out Pete.
I AGREE 100% WITH YOUR TAKE ON THIS PROBLEM. I'LL BET THE FARMERS ARE ALL "LOCAL" , THE FOOD VENDORS AND ARTISANS ARE "OUTSIDERS".
Common sense always prevails and you said it perfect.
Man I would love live in a place like this where they have one of these!
That was so interesting!
Beef farmers in Maryland are setting up shop on their farms using a small out building as a store front. I would think that you could do the same opening up two specif days a week. better for you, better for the customer.
I think they should have the food vendors set up along the waiting line, and have them use ingredients from the produce vendors inside to showcase their products, maybe even offer recipes to inspire customers to purchase the products once they get inside. Everyone wins.
You should start your own market like Wyoming life did and he is doing great.
fyi Both our Farmers' and Artists markets are usually run by a "juried" committee whose mandate is to keep the crap out. It works pretty good where I am in the Canadian Rockies, but the closer you get to big cities it gets sketchy: I asked a honey sales setup a few leading questions about beekeeping, and the millenium twins with hippie expensive gear and "the look" couldn't answer, so some slip through, but you start somewhere. It also helps that local funding has GUIDELINES that you must adhere to , so the policing is usually at the local vendor level. Asshats and scammers get noticed pretty quick.
Maybe they could set up the food venders up outside the building. The customers who come for the food can order their meal and eat outside. The customers who are there for the produce and proteins can come in the building. When The customers from the food venders are ready to shop they can stand In the Line to get In. This will keep people moving and they are not on top of each other. ????
Very interesting.. thank you
I' assuming it's right in the name, a Farmer's Market, not a crafter's market of food vendor's. Those are there as support. Glad to have them too, but limited.
Just curious if you considered switching to a subscription model (CSA or similar) and moving away from the market. After seven years, do you have the customer base to support that full-time or do rely on "new" customers each week?
We are moving to a farm in the next few months and plan to start a commercial operation, thus my question, as we consider the various sales channels. This video is the first one I've seen where someone is addressing the current environment and how it has impacted their customer-facing operations.
I think you and I are the same age and the topics you address (specifically the finances and operations) are of much greater interest as we move down this path. Thank you for all of the great content!
Somone wise once said if your not happy it's time for a change..... gotta follow your heart.
Advertising the farm store to the local customers might be just the anwers.
Simpler is better and less is more.
Who said that? What a crackpot that guy must be...;) Simpler IS better and this has gotten way too complicated!
Hi Pete, perhaps add additional sales channels and delivery systems? Ability to buy online via an e-commerce website is a great way to increase sales
Have you considered a small pre-fab building right inside your front gate--a farm store format?
Sounds like the vendors may need to split up into a few different locations. Farmers Market over here, Food Park off over there and the artisans kinda just sprinkled around ... where ever!
It is better to add on to the the building then tear down a building has has meaning and pride in its history. I believe a farmer market is a mixture of produce, cooked food and hobby type items. The problem is the limitations of people. I can tell you I would Not wait 45 to hour to get in. I would let up the food vendors and hobby vendors outside so the people could snack and buy hobby items while on line. With the farmers inside a separate line could be made for customers that want produce only.
Seemingly, the question is: shall you be a 'farmers' market or not? Possibly limiting the artisans and the food vendors to less than 10% each so farmers can sell their stocks seems a good idea.
Might that point of view change dependent on whether you were a farm, artisan or food vendor?
You can hardly tell anything has changed in Michigan except everyone has to wear a mask. Most of our farmers markets are in parking lots and ran out of the back of trucks under portable tents and tables.
Hey Pete!
Random left field question.. have you watched Squatch253? Him and and his Father are completely rebuilding a farmall M and it’s been a great series!! Well documented. Took me about a week of casual watching to catch up to where they are now. They are close to being rebuilt! Already put the front end back on!
Again, love the rant videos. I do like seeing and hearing your opinions and relating it to my life. I have the same thoughts as you do some times about our meat market. But we can only look out for our selves! Hope to make it to Ithaca one day. We are from Texas!
Thanks! -Josh
Yes I enjoy his channel, but honestly I have trouble watching it this time of year because it makes me want to pull a tractor into the shop and start restoration, but I don't have the time to do it in the summer!
Just a Few Acres Farm
so true!! Makes me want to pull in our IH for new paint lol
@@sonofabutcher8411 I went to the Dallas Farmers Market in early August. Very nice. Not crazy at all.
Pete, love your posts, respect you entirely. As a manager, if I had someone come to me describing his dalema to me as you have in this video, I would ask him to think about what he said to me and ask him what he had not done. What would you have said to him? It seems to me that you are circling around the true problem. What is that,? Government, bureaucracy, true feelings regarding the WuFlu? You are a doer. What do you do when things are not right? Personally it appears to me that every level of “government” is using this “flu” to expand their fiefdoms with no regard to the people they serve. Ever wonder why the homeless and drug addiction population is hardly affected?
Aye DOOdad Lad, there is a heck of a lot of bureaucracy involved with the market, and I don't like bureaucracy. That massive organization does a few things right, like making sure that everything sold at the market is made or grown by the people selling it. I'm a big believer in that rule, otherwise the market would be filled with resellers and would turn into just another flea market. But otherwise, it makes everything over complicated and a pain to change anything.
Exactly why everyone needs to learn to grow some food.
Love this video, lots of truth.
Let the food vendors set up along where people queue.
Sounds good on paper but in practice it will be a mess, and the interference of the market employees will make it messier
Thank you for your videos! I have recently joined your channel and really enjoy your farming content videos!
But a question: Do you have to stay from 10:30 AM till the market ends? Is this some kind of market's bylaw or something? Can't you just wrap up and leave earlier and do some farm chores in that time instead of waiting idly?
Hi Alirezi, That 25 page market rule book says I have to stay until the end of market, unless I sell-out (that never happens). I appealed to the board to allow vendors to leave early, but they did not grant it.
Wow lots of freezers
Very good video
Start your own market. You might be surprised at how many of the other farmers would come with you.
Pete, animo! Saludos desde Mexico!
Ithaca, NY. Ten square miles surrounded by reality.
Instead of tearing down and rebuilding, why not add on, and put crafters, artisans, and food vendors in a separate building? That's what they did at a "farmers market" in Michigan. Oh, they also had a seating area for those who wanted to eat, kinda like a food court at a mall.
Posible solution use receipts from a previous sale for earlier admission to market
Pete by not getting involved your also part of the problem. I understand why your reluctant to but sometimes the end result is worth the fight. Good luck buddy
Thanks Louis. I'm afraid the personal toll would be too much for me to handle.
Pete - you are wise to stay out of the thick of the battle. BUT - l hope you are networking with the group most in sync with your views .. being organized may help drastic measures from being enacted. l've been on both winning and losing sides in local grassroots issues. Stay friendly as possible, today's foe might be tomorrow's ally...lt ain't ez McGee! Best, best wishes for a good solution.
Awesome