Philly Sour works great with Special B malt too! I make it about 10-25% of the grain bill. Philly sour takes the raisin/plum flavor that you can get from adding a two to three pounds of Special B to your grain bill and turns it into a tart cherry flavor. Especially when you do a secondary fermentation with a fruity Brettanomyces strain.
@@Murlockingqc brett brux! I've had some cool results doing a secondary fermentation with some different Belgian strains too! The fermentis T-58 being my main go to! I add it in after three days when the pH drop is finished.
The data sheets and pitch calculator on the Lallemand website have not been updated with these tips; I hope it will be updated soon. This video is helpful, thank you.
Lots of useful information, thank you! Just used Philly Sour 2 weeks ago (before watching this), pitched at a little low temperature of about 18-19°C and fermentation didn't start for 2 days, so I raised to about 21-22°C when fermentation slowly kicked in but slowed down again after about another 2 days. Raised temperature again to 23-24°C and rouse the fermentation bucket a bit, that helped. Now I got an attenuation of about 70% which is totally fine but still wished it would be a little higher. The recipe I designed is with Brett in the secondary, but definitively going to make a beer with Philly only and explore further - looking forward to that!
Thank you for sharing those information with us. If you need guidance in the use of our Wildbrew Philly Sour, you can contact Molly Browning from our team at mbrowning@lallemand.com. Have a nice day!
I've just put down a sour black ipa using this yeast. Hoping it works out well. I pitched a full packet in a half batch (10L). I had activity within 8 hours of pitching.
I was wondering about kettle pH. Do you recommend acidifying your kettle below a normal wort pH such as 5.0-5.2 before going into fermenter? Or would you acidify to a 4.6 range (which I do for traditional kettle souring)? Thanks and sorry if you mentioned it in the video!
Hello, apologies for the late answer. You do not need to pre-acidify the wort before fermentation. Philly Sour will create lactic acid from glucose so your mash temperature will be an important lever here. You should see your pH stabilize after 48 or 72 hours and then Philly Sour will start to create more ethanol. The Philly Sour Best Practice also details some more tips for fermenting with this strain.
I've made some great beers with Philly Sour! I want to try the staggered pitch with Belle Saison next. How do you recommend I add the dry yeast? Should I rehydrate? Or make a starter? I would add between days 3 and 5 for peak souring...
Hello Brandon, it is best to use Philly Sour first to create acidity then you can add Belle Saison dry on Day 3 or 4 of fermentation after your pH has stabilized. Molly from Lallemand Brewing.
Are those data points in the Gravity/pH vs # Days graph true representations of the data collection? I.e. you only took measurements 6 times, roughly once every 2 days? Is the first data point also immediately after pitching? Or upon first sign of fermentation
Hi, apologies for the late reply. The first data point was taken at yeast pitch before fermentation started. The graph is fitted to the data points, which were taken on days 0, 2, 5, 9, 12 and 15. You can find another fermentation curve for your reference in our Best Practices: WildBrew Philly Sour document. admin.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/LAL-bestpractices-Philly_Sour-ENG-A4.pdf
One question I have that was touched on in this talk - what effect does oxygen have on this yeast? Is it best practice to oxygenate wort when using this yeast?
Hello, you do not necessarily need to oxygenate on first pitch as all dried yeast comes with its stores of natural sterols. However, it will not harm the yeast to oxygenate and if you are wanting to brew high gravity or in stressful conditions, it might be worthwhile doing.
Hello Sebastian, it is best to add fruit on Day 3 or 4 of fermentation with Philly Sour. The fruit sugars will convert to ethanol and help with attenuation when added on Day 3 or 4 of fermentation. Molly from Lallemand Brewing
I wouldn't. When the pitch isn't just right you can get more banana Belgian tripel flavors than sour, especially on an overpitch. I've used this yeast on over ten batches including a repitch and I would reccomend using one yeast packet per five gallon batch and ferment at 68-80 degrees Fahrenheit.
You can make a starter, just add it to your batch of wort fairly soon, but you do not necessarily need to make one, direct pitch is fine. i would suggest monitoring your initial wort pH as you will see your pH move more in the first few hours of fermentation (24-72) than gravity. For more guidance, contact Molly at mbrowning@lallemand.com
Hi guys, what water profile would you recommend? Was planning a raspberry sour so thinking of going balanced to aid both flavour and mouth feel evenly.
Hi Luke, we are sorry for the late answer. Balanced water profile is best with yeast nutrients added to help with fermentation. If you have further question, you can send an email to mbrowning@lallemand.com. Molly from Lallemand Brewing.
Hello, fruit is normally added during active fermentation to ensure that fruit sugars are efficiently metabolized. Check out section 3 of this Best Practices document for further information: www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/LAL-bestpractices-Philly_Sour-ENG-A4.pdf
Hello Billy, thank you for your question. The Philly Sour does not need any special water treatment, I would suggest for them to consider the water profile for the style they are wishing to make. You can download our Wildbrew Philly Sour Best Practice ecs.page.link/6MW4F!
Can I add raw pineapple (with peels) to the primary without sanitizing or pasteurizing the fruit, or will the wild yeast on the pineapple compete with the Philly Sour?
Hello, It depends on the level of wild yeast/bacteria that are on the fruit, so without knowing that it is probably best to use frozen or aseptic fruit. If you do fresh, making sure that you do not store the beer for too long will be helpful (as will bottle/keg conditioning).
@@LallemandBrewing Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. While reading the PDF documentation, I've noticed it says the yeast is a killer negative strain, what does that mean exactly?
We really appreciate your interest in our strain. If you'd like more information about it, you should directly contact our expert Molly Browning at mbrowning@lallemand.com. She'll be able to answer your questions. Have a great day.
Hello Jake, I am very sorry but I can't give you an answer on that point. For any Philly Sour related questions, please contact Molly Browning at mbrowning@lallemand.com. Cheers.
Hello Andrew, thank you for your question. We do not recommend repitching Philly Sour as the lactic levels it produces can lead to inconsistencies from batch to batch. A dedicated Best Practice is available on our website with helpful tips and tricks ecs.page.link/6MW4F. Have a great day!
This is a weird one! I would respond with: The WildBrew Philly Sour™ is a highly flocculant yeast with a different fermentation mechanism than Saccharomyces - these two factors mean that you might not necessarily see consistent results if it is repitched. Even though the yeast makes lactic acid from glucose molecules, upon repitch, the yeast might not have the viability and the cell count to perform this task as well as a first pitch. Hope this helps, but let me know if you have any questions! Cheers
Hi, my name is Ricardo, I'm from Brazil, I'm a home brewer and I'm a lallemand fan, I would like to know two things. Can I make a starter to ferment 30 liters with a package? can i piming or should i use other yeast for bottle refermentation?
Hello Richard, you can reach out to Lucas, you're local contact. I'm sure he can help you with your questions based on what you are trying to achieve: Lucas Leon Lacerda Technical Sales Manger - Brazil +55 41 8848-2325 lleon@lallemand.com
Good morning, we do not recommend repitching WildBrew Philly Sour ™ as the lactic levels it produces can lead to inconsistencies from batch to batch. Here is our WildBrew Philly Sour™ Best Practices documentation, you will find helpful tips ecs.page.link/FYGRL
Philly Sour works great with Special B malt too! I make it about 10-25% of the grain bill. Philly sour takes the raisin/plum flavor that you can get from adding a two to three pounds of Special B to your grain bill and turns it into a tart cherry flavor. Especially when you do a secondary fermentation with a fruity Brettanomyces strain.
Which brett yeast did you use ?
@@Murlockingqc brett brux! I've had some cool results doing a secondary fermentation with some different Belgian strains too! The fermentis T-58 being my main go to! I add it in after three days when the pH drop is finished.
The data sheets and pitch calculator on the Lallemand website have not been updated with these tips; I hope it will be updated soon. This video is helpful, thank you.
Thanks for the info!
Lots of useful information, thank you!
Just used Philly Sour 2 weeks ago (before watching this), pitched at a little low temperature of about 18-19°C and fermentation didn't start for 2 days, so I raised to about 21-22°C when fermentation slowly kicked in but slowed down again after about another 2 days. Raised temperature again to 23-24°C and rouse the fermentation bucket a bit, that helped. Now I got an attenuation of about 70% which is totally fine but still wished it would be a little higher.
The recipe I designed is with Brett in the secondary, but definitively going to make a beer with Philly only and explore further - looking forward to that!
Thank you for sharing those information with us. If you need guidance in the use of our Wildbrew Philly Sour, you can contact Molly Browning from our team at mbrowning@lallemand.com.
Have a nice day!
I've just put down a sour black ipa using this yeast. Hoping it works out well. I pitched a full packet in a half batch (10L). I had activity within 8 hours of pitching.
how did it turn out?
@@matrixmodulator put it this way, I don't think it's a style that will catch on. Cheers
Could this be used in winemaking as a way to implement or emulate malolactic conversion?
I was wondering about kettle pH. Do you recommend acidifying your kettle below a normal wort pH such as 5.0-5.2 before going into fermenter? Or would you acidify to a 4.6 range (which I do for traditional kettle souring)? Thanks and sorry if you mentioned it in the video!
Hello, apologies for the late answer. You do not need to pre-acidify the wort before fermentation. Philly Sour will create lactic acid from glucose so your mash temperature will be an important lever here. You should see your pH stabilize after 48 or 72 hours and then Philly Sour will start to create more ethanol. The Philly Sour Best Practice also details some more tips for fermenting with this strain.
I've made some great beers with Philly Sour! I want to try the staggered pitch with Belle Saison next. How do you recommend I add the dry yeast? Should I rehydrate? Or make a starter? I would add between days 3 and 5 for peak souring...
Hello Brandon, it is best to use Philly Sour first to create acidity then you can add Belle Saison dry on Day 3 or 4 of fermentation after your pH has stabilized.
Molly from Lallemand Brewing.
@@LallemandBrewing Thank you!! I was worried dry wouldn't work, but sounds like it should. Can't wait!
Are those data points in the Gravity/pH vs # Days graph true representations of the data collection? I.e. you only took measurements 6 times, roughly once every 2 days?
Is the first data point also immediately after pitching? Or upon first sign of fermentation
Hi, apologies for the late reply.
The first data point was taken at yeast pitch before fermentation started. The graph is fitted to the data points, which were taken on days 0, 2, 5, 9, 12 and 15. You can find another fermentation curve for your reference in our Best Practices: WildBrew Philly Sour document. admin.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/LAL-bestpractices-Philly_Sour-ENG-A4.pdf
One question I have that was touched on in this talk - what effect does oxygen have on this yeast? Is it best practice to oxygenate wort when using this yeast?
Hello, you do not necessarily need to oxygenate on first pitch as all dried yeast comes with its stores of natural sterols. However, it will not harm the yeast to oxygenate and if you are wanting to brew high gravity or in stressful conditions, it might be worthwhile doing.
Should I add fruit during turbulent fermentation or decant to a quiet fermentation and then add?
Hello Sebastian, it is best to add fruit on Day 3 or 4 of fermentation with Philly Sour. The fruit sugars will convert to ethanol and help with attenuation when added on Day 3 or 4 of fermentation.
Molly from Lallemand Brewing
Anyone got the presentation? Can't seem to find it anywhere
It's ok to make starter for this?
I heard that it's not ok cuz the yeast first acidity and than multiply
I wouldn't. When the pitch isn't just right you can get more banana Belgian tripel flavors than sour, especially on an overpitch. I've used this yeast on over ten batches including a repitch and I would reccomend using one yeast packet per five gallon batch and ferment at 68-80 degrees Fahrenheit.
You can make a starter, just add it to your batch of wort fairly soon, but you do not necessarily need to make one, direct pitch is fine. i would suggest monitoring your initial wort pH as you will see your pH move more in the first few hours of fermentation (24-72) than gravity. For more guidance, contact Molly at mbrowning@lallemand.com
Hi guys, what water profile would you recommend? Was planning a raspberry sour so thinking of going balanced to aid both flavour and mouth feel evenly.
Hi Luke, we are sorry for the late answer. Balanced water profile is best with yeast nutrients added to help with fermentation. If you have further question, you can send an email to mbrowning@lallemand.com.
Molly from Lallemand Brewing.
Can you add fruit without removing yeast cake/trub, and not have to worry about off flavours?
Hello, fruit is normally added during active fermentation to ensure that fruit sugars are efficiently metabolized. Check out section 3 of this Best Practices document for further information: www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/LAL-bestpractices-Philly_Sour-ENG-A4.pdf
What water profile would you suggest for the philly sour? (E.g. starting with de-ionised water, what minerals should be added?)
Hello Billy, thank you for your question. The Philly Sour does not need any special water treatment, I would suggest for them to consider the water profile for the style they are wishing to make. You can download our Wildbrew Philly Sour Best Practice ecs.page.link/6MW4F!
@@LallemandBrewing It’s good advice and easy to follow, many thanks.
Can I add raw pineapple (with peels) to the primary without sanitizing or pasteurizing the fruit, or will the wild yeast on the pineapple compete with the Philly Sour?
Hello, It depends on the level of wild yeast/bacteria that are on the fruit, so without knowing that it is probably best to use frozen or aseptic fruit. If you do fresh, making sure that you do not store the beer for too long will be helpful (as will bottle/keg conditioning).
@@LallemandBrewing Thank you, I'll keep that in mind.
While reading the PDF documentation, I've noticed it says the yeast is a killer negative strain, what does that mean exactly?
We really appreciate your interest in our strain. If you'd like more information about it, you should directly contact our expert Molly Browning at mbrowning@lallemand.com. She'll be able to answer your questions. Have a great day.
can Tired Hands comment on how much fruit added per HL?
Hello Jake, I am very sorry but I can't give you an answer on that point. For any Philly Sour related questions, please contact Molly Browning at mbrowning@lallemand.com. Cheers.
Does Philly Sour work well on repitch, if it is harvested?
Hello Andrew, thank you for your question. We do not recommend repitching Philly Sour as the lactic levels it produces can lead to inconsistencies from batch to batch. A dedicated Best Practice is available on our website with helpful tips and tricks ecs.page.link/6MW4F. Have a great day!
@@LallemandBrewing Say you were not worried about that, how does a repitch work to re-enter the souring phase??
This is a weird one! I would respond with:
The WildBrew Philly Sour™ is a highly flocculant yeast with a different fermentation mechanism than Saccharomyces - these two factors mean that you might not necessarily see consistent results if it is repitched. Even though the yeast makes lactic acid from glucose molecules, upon repitch, the yeast might not have the viability and the cell count to perform this task as well as a first pitch.
Hope this helps, but let me know if you have any questions!
Cheers
Hi, my name is Ricardo, I'm from Brazil, I'm a home brewer and I'm a lallemand fan, I would like to know two things. Can I make a starter to ferment 30 liters with a package? can i piming or should i use other yeast for bottle refermentation?
Hello Richard, you can reach out to Lucas, you're local contact. I'm sure he can help you with your questions based on what you are trying to achieve:
Lucas Leon Lacerda
Technical Sales Manger - Brazil
+55 41 8848-2325
lleon@lallemand.com
I didn't get what cleaning is required
Hello, No special cleaning is required just ensure that you have a robust cleaning program as you would for all beer.
how does repitch work? what drives the acid production phase?
Good morning, we do not recommend repitching WildBrew Philly Sour ™ as the lactic levels it produces can lead to inconsistencies from batch to batch.
Here is our WildBrew Philly Sour™ Best Practices documentation, you will find helpful tips ecs.page.link/FYGRL
Is philly sour gluten free?
Hello, all our yeasts strain are 100% gluten-free. Cheers!
Levedura Lallemand Philly Sour: SUMIU DO MAPA - não se acha pra comprar
36 hours in on this yeast and no activity
Hello, we are sorry to read that. Can you reach out to Molly at mbrowning@lallemand.com for direct support?
I saw if you warm it to kick start the activity it could help
My English is very very bad !
I only understood the first sentence 😕😉 (Google trad)
are you still noob???