How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2020
- If Harley Davidson is the Titanic, the pandemic might just be that one big iceberg. Worse still, it had a hole in the hull and sputtering engines before all this even began. Damn. Is HD done for? [Details below]
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I tried negotiating the price on a new ultra limited and the salesman sneered “if you don’t like the price, go buy a Honda” I love my new Goldwing!
Not surprised. I have experienced something similar. There is a reason why many Harley salesman can't afford a Harley of their own.
You should show him your new GW, thank him for the suggestion, and tell him that its 10 times the bike at a cheaper price. It will also LEAVE the harley in the dust.lol
Ha Ha Ha! Righteous! One the best parts about Goldwings is they are sooo quiet, no-one expects them to be blistering fast.
The Goldwing is only one of the finest motorcycles ever created, so I think you certainly came out ahead on that one.
My shadow is twice the bike as a sportster and only 2/3 the price.
My buddy had a Yamaha magna that had more power than most v twin Harley.
It's not that the youth don't like them. It is that they are overpriced, under powered, and they are trying to sell people a lifestyle choice rather than a motorcycle.
you nailed it.
They're selling a brand... not a bike...
thats what ....mba alec consulted to hardley 😀 sell clothes
And Youngsters are broke AF.
like an apple macbook?
I love how when outisde brand was taxed 25% for anything over 750cc, they just went "ok, cool" and optimized their sub-750cc engines to reach over-750cc levels of performance.
I know, HD got a head start and look at where we are now, Honda taking the w
Like Bruce Lee said “ be like water”!
Honda even went as far as using a single pin crank in the vt1100s so it sounds like a harley
Unlike an eighties Harley, the Honda was reliable.@@patgraeme775
R7.....
Went in to a Harley dealership a few weeks ago to look at a nightster, the salesman said and I quote “a young buck like you doesn’t deserve to ride a Harley” this is why young people do not by Harley’s
"Cool, I'll go buy an Indian then."
Wow what an ignorant ass.. I hope you told them to keep their archaic and overpriced junk
Hahaha. I’m 21, I’ll hold onto my 75’ ironhead chop 😎
Uh huh
My local Harley dealership was actually a nice experience, minus the comments about “a man buys what he wants and if your wife don’t like it she can get out” whenever I’d say I needed time to think about the offer and talk it over with my wife
Harley Davidson: The most efficient way to turn gasoline into noise without creating any horsepower.
🙃
Exactly ! we have an a-hole who has to ride his HD through the whole neighborhood just to let everyone know he is a want be Hells angel but is is a security guard - I would actually feel sorry for him if it wasn't so pathetic
@@johnhender shouldnt you feel sorry for him *because* hes so pathetic? If he wasnt pathetic he wouldnt need sympathy.
OEM is actually quite quiet. It’s just Harley riders like to modify the exhaust making it noisy.
Really? Try riding the Milwaukee-8.
I am a police officer and run our fleet vehicles, including motorcycles. A year or so ago at a fleet expo, the HD rep gave a presentation--his presentation was, "Buy it, it's a Harley." The presentation lasted about two minutes. The BMW rep gave a professional presentation that lasted about 20 minutes, very prepared and knowledgeable about the product. I am certain the new BMW's will be well received.
BMW knows the game, they supply a lot of police bikes world wide. Bikes are designed with an option for police usage from factory.
I heard Harleys from 1999-2006 have a lot of issues with bad engines is it true? I want to buy used Harley as my first bike like 2003 Softail or something like that but I'm scared to get screwed and get a bike with engine problems or whatever it might be.
@@Voltomess just save yourself and pick something useful.
@@Kolgrim1988 like what? I don't like sport bikes and all hondas and yamahas cruisers are like HD wanna be
@Nightingale oh please lol it can't be that bad .
I've had Harley riders tell me that one of the great things about riding a Harley is that when you break down on the side of the road, other Harley riders will stop to help you. I'd rather buy something less likely to break down.
So sounds like they’re just a bunch of lonely dudes in needs of attention. That is even worse man.
When I see a rider in need of help, I help him without looking at the brand of motorcycle he rides. And I think most riders (at least here in Germany) act the same.
@@robschmokI can say the same for American riders. We don't care about the brand. We care about the people
I help anything but harleys. Don't fit my tools.
Harley Davidson has probably the best warranty on a motorcycle. They have more dealerships and service shops than all other motorcycle companies combined (in the USA). If your Harley brakes down away from home, they will put you at the head of the service line, so you can be on your way. If you are near your home and break down, expect a month or two wait.
P.S. I do not like 99% of Harley riders/owners because they think they are tough guys. If I had the money to buy a Harley Davidson, I would buy a BMW motorcycle.
.
The toughest and most kind man I ever knew was my grandfather. He ran into burning buildings, rescued car crash victims and comforted grieving families in times of tragedy. And he rode a Honda Goldwing. To me, growing up, Harleys were for pretenders.
what an OG
Damn my bad
Based
He's a real one
That’s nice. But, Harley’s are made in USA not Japan. So
Harley Davidson...Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices...
Most after market shops can't even work on new Harley's these days. Technicians at a Harley Davidson dealer receive routine training to keep up with Harley Davidson's ever changing innovation's.
@@nosuperbowl The HD Technicians are doing work that Corporate HD's R&D couldn't figure out.
@@nosuperbowl #1
@@nosuperbowl innovation 😂 they just hoped on to 80s technology
The big twin is great for cruising, but Harley needs a great sport bike. Buell tried but were limited by using the old air cooled v twin. Need to make a nice powerful liquid cooled in line.
Got my first motorcycle when I was 11 years old. I've owned Hondas, suzukis, Yamahas but always wanted to buy a Harley. One day a dealer let me test ride a Harley. I came back about 15 minutes later and thought to myself, this is just another motorcycle. The dealer explained to me that it's more than a motorcycle I'm buying a lifestyle. That's when I realized that Harley gave up competing and building a better product and was going Kardashian.
I am sure the dealer dont explain what this "Lifestyle" means to the "lifestyle" you have with a big Yamaha or Honda V2 cruiser...
Hells Angels? Brawling? Rockers?
You spelled Whoredashian incorrectly.
#fkHarley
#socialistscooters
I had this discussion with a Harley proponent. When I said I don't give a shit about your "lifestyle" he was just speechless.
@@drhkleinert8241 Toothless geriatric with a fringe jacket. Dumb. Running on credit or a disability settlement. The perfect Harley image/lifestyle.
@@drhkleinert8241 No explanation needed my good man. And don't need a Harley Tax nearly double or triple the cost of an item that is available elsewhere. And I REALLY don't need hammer to the side of the head to have COMMON SENSE either.
27yrs here. My dad loves Harley’s he’s 57. I’ve always thought they were dorky as hell but always respected my dad opinion and never belittled him about his love of HD… he on the other hand? Loves to this day make fun of my “girl bikes” whatever that means even though I can go a good 100mph faster on a bike that weighs half as much. Typical HD lover. Loves to talk shit and be an ass. My dads a great guy (until you talk about motorcycles then all the sudden he’s a walking HD stereotype.) Also at 57 he no longer rides it’s too hard on his back… so further proves the point of this video 😅
The biggest brand issue with Harley is the posers that ride their bikes. Going into a store with my dad was like watching a bunch of tired old bulls lock horns over the last patch of grass. A bunch of fat, golf khaki wearing geezers trying to prove they still got it instead of aging gracefully and with dignity. The store itself has an aura of corporate smugness and branding plastered over every inch. Its extremely un-inviting.
wtf guy living next to me is a hell angels he likes my mt 07
Pappy talking shit 😂😂😂😂😂
How does your faster bike feel when passing (or getting passed) by tractor trailers on the highway vs an 800 lb. sofa seat batwing faired Harley? How about after 200 miles of same ...with 300 miles to go?
@@barrybarnes96 How can you be so butt hurt with such comfy seats🤣
Worked in the Motorsports industry for 15 years. Until the market crash of 08. I’ll never forget the way HD and it’s riders treated everyone else on motorcycles…….like 💩. HD is getting exactly what it deserves. Their pompous, stuck-up, condescending, and some times aggressive attitude towards people on other brands has run it’s course. Good luck a-holes.
You mad bro?
@@wrongthinker350 You fat bro?
@@wrongthinker350 you and that one like sure got him
I'm trying to correct this as much as a single rider can. I wave at every bike, stay quiet at lights, and will hang out with anyone willing to stick around at the rest stops. Honda, Harley, Kawasaki, BMW. It doesn't matter what you ride, just that you ride at all.
I can just agree.
In germany harley guys are mostly weekend rocker larpers that think they are incredibly cool snd Superior.
Really dont enjoy getting wrecked by my 750 Magna...
You did more research on HD than HD did on themselves...
Bullshit. Straight rip off of the business insider video. Those cue cards included. Go see yourself bro
@@oblique6307 The numbers don't have different interpretations. Of course he would say the same things. That's how it is.
@@oblique6307 incorrect.... similar conclusions about some of the same issues - except Ryan highlighted many more of HD's woes and delved much deeper into the philosophy of -why- HD is going tits up. and did it in a much more entertaining way!
(German here) That narrative reminded me of the US car industry walking to Washington for help ... I wonder, though praising yourself as *the* capitalist country, you somehow seem not to have the best business leaders.
@@tomasbickel58(Norwegian here) that's what they are doing with china and huawei. Fucking hypocrites. i mean I hate china and what they're doing and their overall philosophy. but Americans love to talk about their FrEedUm and how they are the greatest "capitalist" country that god created and at the same time whining about competition. it's just boggles my mind and it's quite funny actually seeing how their policies contradict each other in an amusing way .
My ole granpappy told me "never buy a motorcycle at a clothing boutique"...best advice I ever got!
can u tell the meaning. i don't understand.
They sell T shirts and clothes at Harley shops
@@imnotsharingmyrealnameonth5601 most Harley dealerships are 75 percent clothing and 25 percent bikes. The inside is laid out like a retail store with the bikes scattered randomly throughout. It's a weird feeling compared to other dealerships.
That's the best advice he ever got?.....
That was good ! but it is true
I just got my first bike. Suzuki GS500F. I love it. And I, along with my friends (all of us college age), actively avoided Harley’s. The reputation for unreliability, for proprietary things like tires, the culture surrounding HD, and for me the noise (I want some noise but I don’t wanna be a nuisance).
Young people avoid HD because there’s a stigma and bad reputation, and there are more affordable bikes out there that offer an amazing experience.
Exactly, harleys are so overpriced and underperforming that I would pick a 90s Kawasaki vulcan 800 over just about any model in their range, except maybe the breakout for the looks, though I've also heard it handles like shit
What also doesnt help for younger people (especially in cities) is that Hayley's are predominantly (almost exclusively in fact) known for their choppers/cruisers. Out of all the young people i've spoken that ride bikes over the years none have found choppers to be a decent choice for general use riding, so think urban/highway combo for commuting, and they don't have the benefits of enduro-tourers/ grand tourers either when it comes to distance or naked bikes for pure urban driving either.
So imo part of it might also have to do with having a very "niche" practical application which if you combine it with HD's prices, yeah no suprise they're not being sold.
Nice. I got a gs500 f as my first bike a few months ago too! My dad was pretty annoyed I didn't go the HD way.
Heavy, noisy, cocky and unreliable that's the Harley.......
It's a *very* rare occurrence, but every once and awhile you'll run across a kind, decent person riding a Harley.
A true alpha male
@@Just-Dan I normally stay away from blanket statements for this very reason, glad to hear that you know a good dude that looks out. Ride safe, brother.
I have met a few of them and all of them enjoy harleys because of nostalgia. Their Dads used to ride them.
Blanket statements make you look like a complete ass. I'm 40 and have a 22 ultra limited. I'm also in a riders club that requires a HD vin (a HOG chaptered that was displaced after a dealership closed down due to a death). We ride all over doing fundraisers. We usually findraise $10-20k a year for all types of programs. Also, HD owners are the #1 rider in the MRO l. You know the people fighting to keep motorcycles alive. Many states lump MC in with small engine machines like lawn mowers and weed Wackers and as such l, like in CA will be illegal to buy in 2035. They also advocate for safety like making sure autonomous cars can recognize MCs on the street in different lane positions, some self driving cars cannot recognize MCs. So don't ever lump people who happen to enjoy a product into 1 category. It's cruel, prejudicial and ignorant. Next your gonna say all people of a skin color are something, you wouldn't want that o bet.
I ride a Honda and meet a lot of nice Harley riders. Most of them give me compliments on my Valkyrie. The novelty of having an HD has worn off for them.
95 % of All Harley's are still on the road.
The other 5 % made it home !
the 95% have their machine broke on the way home
the 5% are still stuck in their garage/home because their engine won't start
@@alviandrapiero2464 🤣
LMAO,... HARD .
😂🤣😂
My 89 fltc is still going strong ! Not Dying!
My motorcycle driving instructor once told me: "Harley Davidson: Buy the technology of the past, at the price of the future"
For your information you don't drive a motorcycle you ride a motorcycle. Play you must be new to the game
@@johnjaco5544 Yeah....you tell him!
The best riding courses in Northern Virginia are owned and taught by local motorcycle policemen. They have their own fleet of 250cc Japanese training bikes. They ride Harley Electra Glides.
@@budroberts5929 You mean there are non state run (by the community colleges) but DMV sanctioned classes in VA??? I looked and didn't see any. I wouldn't mind taking the advanced classes just for fun, and check off. My local MSF teachers cant stand HD. BTW
@@johnjaco5544 "Ride" is the more commonly used term. However, "drive" is not improper. Drive is defined as to "operate and control the direction and speed of a motor vehicle." A motorcycle is a motor vehicle. When you "drive" a motorcycle, you are also riding it.
Been riding motorcycles my whole life from dirt to street. I appreciate that Harley is attempting to attract younger and more educated ($) riders, but the old guard still runs the show and does NOT like newcomers. So it really comes down to who dies off first. Harley or it’s traditional riders. We will know over the next ten years
That's an excellent way to put it
Indeed .. i m so happy people die themselves anyways !
@@Santa1936 Yep. Bang on. It's going to be an interesting decade to see how it all plays out for H-D.
Definitely the harley riders with all the abuse they've done to their liver
@@Santa1936nah, a stupid way. as if harley couldn't release models for both groups.
I have been on two wheels for 57 years now, my Pop had me on his Harley when I was one year old for the first time. I'll never forget when he called me while I was working for a Harley-Davidson dealership in California, and he asked me: "Son, what's the best bike in the world?" (expecting me to name one of several Harley-Davidson models) I replied with, "BMW R 1150 GSA." In shock, he asked: "Why's that?" I replied, "It's all day comfortable, will run forever, and then some. It will go over or through most obstacles - what more could you want?" he went out and bought a BMW immediately after, and road that bike until the day he died...
That’s a really cool story that would otherwise never have been told or remembered. I appreciate you sharing.
My mechanic, who you'd swear was a Harley guy, rides a big BMW. I'm in Los Angeles and he's like, "I was in North Carolina, then went up to Wisconsin, through the Dakotas, back to California. I was like WTF!?
6:23 "One of their best-selling models is a giant mobility scooter." There's not enough burn wards and aloe vera in the world to treat that burn.
I pray I die rather be forced to ride one of those things!
Not only that. Low-speed low power, low-stress construction and can't withstand perfectly flat asphalt on constant, steady travel roads without breaking into pieces. They claim to hit 100k milage with no overhaul with current production runs of bikes. Never saw such a piece. But saw A LOT of Harleys with 15k miles and a white cloud of smoke left behind. These got better in reliability some last +20 years, I guess but still are crappy as hell.
Now, how boring it has to be in riding and owning to hit such milage with HD?
It reveals his implicit bias, that's literally it.
"Grandad-Bagger" is a better name.
@@HanSolo__ white smoke? I doubt it's the head gasket.
Harley Davidson is America's largest cosplay company.
All about fashion over function (and the fashion is gaudy as hell)
HD Cosplay for Dads.
Don't forget the gun industry. Grown men in Michigan get to play G I Joe at the statehouse.
@@andyvoytko there's a big difference, the guns are useful for a lifetime.
ROFL
Harley-Davidson is a T-shirt company, not a motorcycle company.
Like Ferrari makes more money selling hats than selling cars?
Same crap happened at GM. While Honda, Nissan. and others were sending great cars over here, GM was building trash. I lived it. I worked on the trash. You couldn’t win with customers because you couldn’t fix the “normal undesirable characteristics” built into the trash.
Yeah, this 100%.. We're told to "Buy American", yet the American products (vehicles) they're trying to force feed is just... aren't competitive.. enough. I'm on my 3rd Toyota and wouldnt touch an American vehicle. I'm loming into motorcycles and while I've looked at big V-Twom cruisers I've never even considered a Harley.. It's a strange atmosphere when a brand (and its typical consumer base) feel unwelcoming to potential new customers. I'd rather not join the Cult of Harley, and I think it's almost curtains for them. I like my vehicles just how I like my women: Better looking, better performing, and not likely to be found not surrounded by men in leather chaps and beards who smell like Winston cigarettes and Budweiser.
@@jesse1136 unions. Dude building an American car doing a two brain cell job making 35 bucks an hour with a Cadillac health plan and retirement.
@@greghelms4458 Nah
@@cartilagehead6326 explain? I lived it for 30 years. What you got?
If American brands were even close to Japanese ones on cost to performance, most Americans wouldn't even think of buying Japanese ones.
It's just faux patriotism.
“Buy a Harley buy the best! Ride a mile walk the rest.”
Quote from my 8th grade shop teacher.
He called them “Hardly’s”
Because he said they hardly ever run.
Had a person i worked with. After work we stopped at a bar He was trying to impress a very pretty woman ( Out of his league ) She was a bartender, at a biker bar. He said to her " I am getting a Harley. Want to go for a ride "... She said " No i dated a man with a Harley half the time the bike was broken down and many times i helped to push it home when it broke down. I will never date a Harley rider again, and i will never date you " She looked at me and asked " Do you ride "... I said " Yes " ..." Suppose you got a Harley " she said.... I looked up at her and said " No i don't "..... ( Sometimes it's better to make a woman think )..... She went away served some people and then came back ( Curiosity got the better of her ) ...... She came back and said " What you got a Honda or something "... .. " Something " i said...... " I own and ride a 1970 Norton Commando S model " She left and came back later saying " I have been asking about a Norton. Will you take me for a ride " ...........
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😆😆😂😂
@@riveraricardo008 Let me guess after you gave her a ride she was impressed and you got some that night? Just curious.
@@riveraricardo008 Suzuki Gs 550 e 1978 is what i own :)
A company blaming customers for not buying their products 😂
No. Theu can't blame me. I bought 5.
The Harley Davidson Corporation has announced that they have the inside information that will finally get Hillary Clinton and all of her crime syndicate locked up in GITMO for the rest of their lives!
There, that’ll be the final nail in that coffin
They left India for not having much Harley fans there
lmao
@Nightingale you think like I do , same old shit different day attitude ! Politics plays well in comparison !
Like some other comments, a lot of the issue is the dealerships' mentality of "young ones aren't worth selling to." I get an immediate sense of "I don't belong here" when I walk into a Harley dealer, then the salesmen come around /eventually/ to look at you like you're wasting their time, hardly try selling anything, refuse to elaborate on any question you have. Then I found a dealership somewhere else that employed my generation. Massive flip. Comfortable just hanging around the shop floor with them. So that's where I got my Harley.
Sadly, I experienced the same thing until one guy came from the used bike section and greeted me by asking if anyone helped me around. When I replied, no, he apologized for the rude salesmen there and let me sit on/try out/ answered all of my questions. Solid guy, and I ended up buying my 48 that day in full. The other salespeople had stupid looks on their faces and got an eat poop grin from me as I rode out.
u don't get the concept of eloquency eyho
HD was always the opposite sort of bike I wanted (huge and not particularly agile, in general) so didn't follow their story and never went into a dealership. Thanks for the history lesson, well done!
If you like the idea of an HD, you might like the new Sportster. Very different than anything else they've made, that's for sure. Probably not the best bang for buck though, in typical HD fashion!
Yes, I remember going to the Harley dealer in the 80s and while looking at the only Harley bike I could afford was told, "why are you looking at a women's bike"? Good job, I bought a Kawasaki.
Haha I know what you mean. My first bike was a used 1200 sportster so I get told I'm on a girls bike by Harley guys and get shit on for riding a Harley by everyone else. Good thing I have thick skin haha
The coveted 1980s HD, hotter garbage can't be found at a garbage processing plant.
Pretty much my experience at Harley. You can't bully people into an upsell? That's never going to work. If you go to Yamaha for example and sit on an R1 they ask if you're ready and perhaps would better suit an R6. That's a better sales strategy because they've recognized where you are as a rider and down the track get another sale to a bigger bike when you're ready, not because some insecure dude with a flame tatt called you a pussy. What an unwelcoming culture.
“BUY IT WE WERE AROUND IN WWI”
@@t8w974 with the R6/R1 analogy, it also increases the likelihood that the rider is _still alive_ in order to buy the R1 in a few years.
Don't sell someone the biggest, most powerful bike they can afford, otherwise you might make someone who is scared to death of dying and never buys another bike again after their first crash.
Interesting that this iconic "rebel" brand needed government protection to survive
Ironic.
@@whiterollone So it should really be called the "Ironic 883"
Lol 😂
Yeah most rebel branding is heavily artificial and reeks of corporate cultivation and controlled opposition. Real rebels wear the same boring stuff as everyone else and do their own thing without fanfare because real rebellion is in action, not in aesthetic.
That's the thing, the "rebel" appearence of HD has pretty much always been a boomer fabrication over its lifespan. If capitalism is good at one thing, it's profiting from and neutering dissent.
Bad customer service is part of the Harley experience. They still don't see it as a problem. Almost as they are doing you a favor to deal with you.
The history of HD is written in a book of opportunities full of bad decisions. Killing Buell is one of the chapters.
Years ago I went to a HD shop looking at Buell's. I was actually ridiculed by the salesman for only wanting to see the Buell's. So I left and bought a Yamaha. Later I got Suzuki and then a Ducati. ( over the course of time ) But what I really wanted was a Buell.
I just would not buy one while being insulted by the sales staff.
Harley: We're reaching out to the youth
Also Harley: Our e-motorcycle is $30,000 and has the range of a mobility scooter
... like all competitors. The LiveWire is actually very competitive and a good bike overall.
1 cent has been deposited into your hd account.
It is possibly the coolest looking electric out there though, so at least that’s something. It also has a similar range as other options, and is pretty damn quick.
I’m not a Harley guy (I ride an Indian currently), but I think they deserve at least some credit for the Livewire.
@@TheUrbanEpicure LiveWire costs double what the Zero SR costs
@@TheUrbanEpicure competitive wtih who? with what? LOL. Get real. They can't even compete with themselves man.
Maybe if Harley-Davidson would start offering “more bang for the buck” ,they would sell more motorcycles. New Motorcycles should not cost as much as a car or truck.
Indian is selling bikes for a little less than Harley, but the quality is far superior.
Seriously, give me 2 disc brakes, a 6th gear on the sportster, actual rear suspension. Why is it that i pay 16k for a bike and still gotta drop another 10k to "make it my own"
campbellscollision, at least the Ducati and the Yamaha come with a tool kit. Everything nowadays is overpriced. I love Harley-Davidson, don’t miss understand me, all I’m saying is I wish they offered a little more for their premium pricing. That’s all.
@campbellscollision a 12k ducati monster comes with top of the line everything, and yamaha does it for cheaper
@campbellscollision But you get to sacrifice your first born son to pay for the first service on that Ducati. WTF???
Harley's biggest problem right now, imho, is that they're trying to sell you a $35k motorcycle with a track record of the highest cost of ownership for maintenance. I can go buy an equivalent motorcycle by Yahama, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Honda for a fraction of the price, and they'll be cheaper to maintain. All while looking every bit as good as the HD.
Rest in PISS,
harley
As a Gen Z Harley rider, I would say the pricing is slowly killing them. I recently bought the 2023 FXST and it ain’t cheap. I am fortunate to be able to afford it but I can not say the same to most riders my age. If anything I see more people going for Japanese cruisers like the Suzuki Boulevard, Honda Shadow/Rebel, Kawasaki Vulcan/Vaquero or Yamaha Bolt
Not a motorcycle guy, or a Harley guy, but I was riveted by what he put together. That is some damn fine reporting.
But none of it is accurate.
@@carlskaggs4554 How is it inaccurate? I'm really interested to know.
@@carlskaggs4554 Can you give us some further explanation on how this is inaccurate?
@@marcusgarvey8388 For the first nine months of 2020, Harley-Davidson recorded revenue of $3.33 billion. Dealers cannot keep new Harleys on the showroom floor. Used prices are skyrocketing.
@@carlskaggs4554 H-D Revenue 2016 = $5.99 billion, 2017 = $5.64b, 2018 = $5.71b, 2019 = $5.36b. And your point is?
I went to a dealership to get some info and see about a riding program and was 100% ignored when I said I wasn't buying anything at that time. Went over to Honda and the salesman spent a good bit of time explaining different models, etc. First 2 bikes I bought were Honda
Some verses from the Holy Bible:
"And on the eighth day the LORD looked at His work, decided he'd done a good job, deserved a toy and bought Himself a Harley. And on the ninth day the Lord declared the Harley was crap and traded it in for a Gold Wing".
I usually go to dealerships where they carry multiple manufacturers. I bought five motorcycles from one dealership in Oregon (two Hondas, a Kawasaki, a Suzuki and a Triumph) and despite being on the other side of the country, I’ve thought it might be fun to go back and buy number six to ride back. 😁
I usually try to keep the bikes in my stable between three and five (just sold the Suzuki), but I’m always looking for the next ‘fun’ bike to throw wayyyy too many miles at.
I bought a BMW down in Florida to ride back to the central states, and despite hating it, I love it. I ride it every chance I get… 😣
Tried talking to Harley to buy a bike I wanted kept getting ignored walked in to Honda and bought one right then and there
Big salesman lesson. "Today's browser, could be tomorrow's customer." Be nice to browsers.
Oh I 100% agree however I can also say that they make these guys function largely on commission and then they make them function on a shit ton of stupid metrics and they have to meet a certain amount of sales goals and all this other stuff they have to get so many positive reviews and all this business it's ridiculous it ain't no wonder half of them are pissed off.
A follow up video would be great, lots has happened since you made this video. The company has lost their way more so than ever
Yes indeed.
Lost their way as in trying to climb out of the pigeon hole that they put themselves in or lost their way more as in making questionable business decisions?
My step-father was a Harley dealer. When I was a kid he even took me to a Harley dealer conference in 81, when AMF sold Harley back to itself. I remember watching the first preview of the marketing videos coming out that year. He was so proud, and so was I. My step-father was the epitome of a Harley rider and fan, only to find out they would change the dealership requirements, which he no longer could meet. He lost the dealership. Needless to say, he was then no longer a Harley fan, and I am not one either, despite growing up riding a Harley (well, the X90 as a kid). Harley has lost its way a few times and somehow bounced back. I'm wondering if (too much) corporate greed will end up killing the brand altogether. Nice vid btw.
I have been riding since 1969 and Harleys since the early 90s. I am therefore the classic Harley owner, last new one was 12 years ago, which like its predecessors took me all over Canada and the US, from coast to coast. Great people, great memories. Everything you say in this video is absolutely right. My "Best Before" date expired a long time ago and none of us old-timers are buying new motorcycles. Sad but true. You folks have the best motorcycle channel on RUclips, by a large margin. Makes me proud to be a Canadian motorcycle rider.
That's not completely true. I work for Harley Davidson and I see a lot of older people buying new Harleys. As well as younger people.
Ah, so a seasonal rider. 😂🤣😂.Still waiting for HD to get their shit together. I really want to trust the brand again.
@@CanonMatters2Me it's comments like that that make me hate riders like you. I ride a Yamaha (their cruisers are just as pricey as Harley new), which is what I bought used (after it's value TANKED) when I had to sell my Harley to support my kids (which lost little value, btw). I've ridden through MN winters and hail storms...and when I come up on my cruiser, I get to hear snotty comments like yours...needless to say, many of my friends ride viragos and such (because the used market is great! Absolutely NO resale...so those who actually ride their bikes to death can buy and junk cheaply), and they put more miles on than most of your iron-butt guys. But none of us "look" the part...we all look like typical Harley guys...
Don't stereotype. I am a fair weather rider now, but when I worked a local job (I'm on the road 5 days a week now), I put more miles on my bike in MN riding season than multiple AZ rider did in multiple years...combined!
Harley is dying due to ALL the reasons he stated...but while I will probably never own one again, I will NEVER buy a jap or European bike new...can't stand rockets now that I'm middle aged (I feel no need to "recapture" my youth or ride like an idiot hooligan), and the cruisers drop in value (so why buy new?). I may no longer be a Harley customer, but this rider will never be a primary market buyer of anything else...
Oh...and watch this video again...now realize the customer was a big part of the problem...an exclusionary attitude...EXACTLY what you just did...
legalmechman well said 👍
The editing skills on this Video are higher than the sales Harley makes
That doesn't say much
Right? Production value is through the roof here.
It's good but Harley still makes a handsome profit
I’ll never forget pouring a half a quart of used oil under my bosses Harley when he parked it inside the shop one day. Watching him freak out for a couple minutes was priceless. 😝
My first street bike was a 1992 Harley Sportster 883 my dad passed down to me. Its a fantastic bike. Still have it to this day. It's incredibly reliable and easy to work on.
Beyond that and the sentimental value, it's just a bike. I have four now, but never bought another harley. For the record, my dad also never again bought a harley.
For people who came late, HD had a good life. He passed away in his sleep surrounded by Hondas and Yamahas.
And the last rites were administered by Indian
@@wwb7091 HAHAHAHAHA!
Eulogy given by Kawasaki
And guess who stood over his grave Triumphantly?
Absolutely beautiful poetry man , absolutely loved how you’ve put it in words 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👌🏼👍🏼🔥
I knew Harley was done when I walked into a Harley store that was only selling clothes.
Funny Roy, you must have been visiting Silverton, Colorado. It's a t-shirt and clothing store owned by the Durango Harley Davidson Dealer. It's the BEST Harley Davidson Shop in the World!!!
@kaw boy No, lol.
@@nosuperbowl #9
They sell a 1$ branded poker chip for 35$ I started laughing so hard
@kaw boy Dude, are you embarrassed yet by your stupidity?
Now every time I see a Harley, first thing I think of is an oversized mobility scooter. I can't unsee this 🤣🤣
For years, HD has been relying on the marketing reputation that one should accept them no matter the cost. It was only a matter of time before the average consumer came to his senses and realized nothing is worth an inflated price.
Harley Davidson is a T-Shirt retailer, right? Why are they getting into the motorcycle business?
🤣😂😆
And when they're charging $99AUD for a T shirt here in Straya, they're not doing much 'retailing'...
Yeah they are....trying new things I guess :v
I think it’s funny how majority of Harley riders seem to be old losers who ride for a sense of inclusion. You know who I’m talking about. Those guys who show up in Harley gear head to toe and sit around and talk about their 30,000 machines that they ride a few times a year. Oh and the parking lot revs, loud radios, and tassels, sooo many tassels. South Park pictured then perfectly. Why would I ever want to ride a slow, heavy, outdated machine that will eventually vibrate itself into oblivion?
@@krp-xe3hw what episode of south park whas that in?
Jesus Christ the production values on this. The scripting. The editing. Everything is perfect. This is world class stuff. I look forward to more of your work.
Mohammad you're right!
Too much walking.
I don't even ride a bike, but somehow got recommended this channel. Hooked ;=)
Every new person reaction on videos from that channel.
It's not THAT good, but still high quality for sure
I actually really wanted that bike, AND I am a millennial. When I was young, I could ride with my dad on his Harley, and it was the happiest part of my childhood, which otherwise sucked. I went to college at a time when the tuition rates were increasing by hundreds of dollars every semester, while the amount we could receive in funding lagged far behind, based on rates that became laughably outdated. And then the recession happened, those student loans came due, and there were no jobs to be found. I didn't get a raise for an entire decade. No matter what I did. I couldn't afford a HOUSE, where would I park my HARLEY? In my apartment lot for someone to kick over, with Harley riders looking more and more like boomer assholes?? Seriously. I literally could never "afford" to own a Harley.
At one apartment complex I kept my KZ-900 in my kitchen. Never leaked anything onto the floor. Can't do that with a Harley. That really sucks about tuition rates. My first two years of college at the U of Minnesota I paid $120 per quarter, 4 quarter per year. Unlimited hours per quarter, I always took more, like 20 or so. Graduated with zero debt. Hard to do that today.
@@larryvaughn5843what? Harleys don't leak any more than any other bike. And no shit you can't fit a Harley through a door way, you can't fit a motoguzzi through one either, does that make it a bad bike? 🤦♂️
When they were made by bowling ball builders they did leak more, that is why I didn't keep my sporty in my kitchen. That HD was the worst bike of the 10 bikes I owned, but got the most attention. Fitting through a doorway depends on the width of the door as well as the width of the bike. Most are not wider that a 36" wide door.
Most guys who aren't racist towards jap bikes don't prefer HD motorbikes.@@OldManShoutsAtClouds
When you actively refuse to innovate, price your product above the competition and have a base of users who are predominantly a-holes spreading your image, I'm not surprised HD is in trouble.
"All we know for sure is that one of their best selling models is a giant mobility scooter." 😂😂 Spot on!
Michael Schaller now that! !! Was fuckin funny !!!!😎😎😎😎😎😄😄😄😄😄🍺🍺🍺
Coming soon to walmart
You may laugh tbh ...I saw one such Harley trike . on regular occasions ..it was impressive to see . If i had the money I would have bought one alas I can't even afford a motorbike .. ffs lol
Best EVER!!!
@@colintraveller I am sure it was, and they are nice models. My comment was a quote from the video, and I'm sure Ryan used it tongue and cheek about the HD rider demographics.
I grew up in the late fifties to early sixties, Started riding while I was 16. Later I wanted a Harley but had to settle for a honda 350, Harley's were too expensive. Triumphs grew to be the bike I wanted, they were clean looking while Harleys looked too complex and full of dodads that only ran the price up. Now I am in my late seventies and I still admire the Triumphs and Harley's still cost too much.
Driving customers away who want a harley seems to be a common theme here
in your '70's you say, well go down to your local H-D dealership sit on a bagger, I bet you can't get it off the kick stand they are so so heavy today.
i bought one of the early 750 hondas used around 1977. talk about value. i loved that bike. i have never owned a harley partly because of the people who ride harleys. and mostly because when i was young they vibrated and shook so bad that i figured the design was a bad idea.
Jack of all master of none my second bike was a 1957 Triumph 110 Tiger,120 bonney was just to much for me at the time FIRST BIKE WAS BSA BANTAM rigid had many grandfather had a INDIAN (red) WITH BIG BOX SIDECAR CARRIED ALL HIS BRICKIE TOOL HARLEYS WERE NEVER ON MY LIST,COST AND BREAKDOWNS. if over reved the tiger she would drop the cam followers, Hour and half to split the crank get them out
Right. I have the same feeling.
Harley guys told me that my Honda 450 was a bicycle. (second hand)
Triumph Bonneville was my favorite not the Harley and was expensive.
Overpriced, oversized V-twins never appealed to me. However, when I was in Milwaukee, I spent about 4 hours in the Harley-Davidson museum. Lots of interesting history and exhibits there!
I was just there a few days ago. One of the exibits specificly mentioned something about "apealing to new riders and the next generation" on a bike from the 50's or 60's. Hmmmmm......
My career in the motorcycle industry began in 1991. The first thing my first instructor at Motorcycle Mechanic's Institute said to the class was a speech directed at the Harley only guys. His point was that focusing your career on a single brand might work, but you will more successful if you learn how to repair all motorcycles. I took that advice seriously. Their success with the Porsche designed top end of the Evo engine the late 1980s led to 'young urban professionals' and many others wanting to own a Harley Davidson a status symbol. That rise in popularity led to a boom in enrollments at the H-D service technician training school. As a result the Harley Davidson dealers in my area offered a pay rate of $5 per flag hour less than what the Triumph, Kawasaki, and Suzuki motorcycle dealerships paid me.
"...One of their best selling models is a giant mobility scooter."
ROFLMAO. Well said!
Must be a gold wing that an over sized scooter if I ever saw one
Very droll. However, if I get to the point where I can't hold up a two wheeler - for whatever reason - I'll ride whatever I want and care not what anyone thinks.
And THAT is freedom.
@@timothydardar4909 that's a pretty fast scooter if that's what the goldwing is.
🤣
@@BegoneJonah There is nothing wrong with that, however the model that is shown is probably the worst thing to get, the two driven wheels in the back are very unstable. They are fine if all you plan to do is go straight on a perfect road. For everything else, the model with one driven wheel in the back and two wheels in the front is a MUCH better option and that is what most senior citizens actually buy.
The level of this channel makes pretty much all the other bike related ones feel sorry for themselves . Amazing content put together better. Every single time.
@BonnieDoon84
Same for many others not including me.
I'd prefer quality over rapid production
thats because its blatant propaganda
F9 and yammie noob make good stuff, but the others just don’t compare
Yep, hands down the best video quality, writing and presentation on this subject that I can think of. Very well done and I look forward to each new video :)
troll.
1.) I love your channel. It's equal parts Clarkson's Top Gear and Stewart's Daily Show.
2.) Harley Davidson is going to end up like Colt, Remington, Bell, Westinghouse, RCA and a lot of other Americabilia-it's going to become a logo other companies pay for to put on their products for the brand recognition. To a degree it already is. They sell more gloves and jackets than they do bikes these days. That's thanks to the forward thinking of Karen Davidson, granddaughter of one of the founders, who realizes that Harley is less a bike and more a subculture. Harley Davidson is practically Hot Topic for Baby Boomers. It's the cool way to get to the Bruce Springsteen concert you paid $200 per ticket to go see. And it's only a matter of time before they become weak enough and get bought out like Ed Hardy, Von Dutch or Supreme. After some greedy corporate raider completely destroys what little legacy's left that's when we'll see that orange logo getting passed around like a doobie at a party and wearing "HECHO EN CHINE" stickers.
3.) If they wanted to survive and secure their fortune, they should be doing what Soichiro Honda was doing after the dust from WWII settled: Making bicycle motors. eBikes are huge right now because they're cheap, accessible and a real vehicle-plus those pedals are a great legal fiction that preclude them from needing registration, licensing or insurance. There's only a few big names making motors right now. If Harley wants to go electric, that'd be the way to go. It'd also be the way to grab a new generation's attention.
"Harley Davidson is practically Hot Topic for Baby Boomers"
🤣 That's awesome!
"Hot Topic for Baby Boomers" is putting it perfectly.
Shame on H-D also for what it did to Buell Motorcycles: Bought 'em out, made quite a series of really bad decisions in running the company, denigrated the brand, then shut it down.
My uncle had a Honda and always bragged about it never needing serious maintenance. I asked why he carried a big toolkit on road trips and he said "for my Harley friends"
Lol hilarious but true
O U C H
@@cowmath77 honestly curious which model shadow you had so much trouble with?
The Sporty is the only good bike that Harley builds. Unfortunately they don't sell too many of them. The Sporty is probably on its last legs unless Harley comes up with a way for it to meet future EPA requirements.
@@cowmath77 respect that. Well said.
I will NEVER forget the days (up until 2008) when you ordered your Harley of choice, it arrived at the dealership, they slapped $4000 worth of crap on it that you didn’t ask for and presented you your order with the “new” price tag. When you protested, the response was, “Do you want it or not cuz’ I got 10 dudes in line behind you that will buy it in a heartbeat.” Now Harley is not only struggling but they are surprised that no one cares. I still would like to see HD survive but they owe their customers an apology and then some.
WOW. I had no idea it was that bad. For this reason, I hope they fail. If they go completely out of business, maybe a better CEO and a new team of engineers can figure out how to put customers first, and actually try to be nice to the customers. That is basically abusing their loyal customers. The quality and engineering you get from a $10,000 Japanese motorcycle is like NASA aerospace level quality.
@@Ritalie It wasn't. I bought a Softail Standard in 2005, paid the MSRP. They even took of the Freight charge on the final bill without really having to haggle. Bought another CVO Softail in 2009. Got a shitty salesman that was just a shitty salesman. Went to a different dealer. MSRP again. Bought a new Street Glide in 2013. Made that deal over the phone in 5 minutes on the way through the town. Stopped in, loaded the bike up, was out of there in 45 minutes. MSRP. It's nowhere near as shitty as anyone here is making it out to be. Are there some shitty salesman? Sure. Are there some shitty dealerships? Sure. That is with everything. I have my own complaints, but they are very different than anyones here. Some of which caused me to open up my own motorcycle repair/custom shop. I have since closed that side of my business down and liquidated the inventories. While I had that business open, I saw a lot of different problems with motorcycles, most of which came from people "fixing things themselves" or usually drunken riding/showing off. The reason I closed that side of the business was not based on the motorcycles or the quality control of anything, but the unlikelihood of customers able to pay their bills. It was a constant problem that I do not wish on anyone. Add in the very seasonal nature of it, especially where I live, that it was very hard to keep help that could do other things in the winter to bring in money to cover their wages, and then huge spikes in people "needing" things done at the last minute when riding season was approaching. Since I wasn't a Harley dealership, I often had people with import bikes coming in wanting Harley-type mods or customizations to their imported motorcycle. None of them seemed to be able to wrap their heads around the fact that just because their motorcycle was only worth $500, that custom one-off parts, that I cannot pattern at all because there is no market, cost substantially more than their motorcycle was worth.
It was fun for a while, although I am glad that era is behind me.
@@aaronkram6744I paid full price on my '08 electra glide, there are a couple of dealers that I know that have discounted bikes, especially leftover's, they have a hard time pricing over msrp now with the factories over producing.
That's never happened to me!
100% spot on with the XR1200X. I think it was the first Harley I had seen that stirred my loins. Unfortunately I was in highschool when it came out and broke if only they had it now when I'm middle aged and cashed up.
Don't even ride a bike but really enjoy your videos, well written informative and great presentation.
Back when I was doing electrical work I got to meet the gentleman that invented the brake system used on Harley’s. His accent was east European of some sort, I didn’t want to be rude so I didn’t ask where. Anyway, he was super nice and when I finished my work for the day he gave me a tour of his machine shop. He had all sorts of very cool machines for working metal. Quite a few of them were computer operated so he could run them 24/7. While I was working he had machined a piece of metal just for me that I used in my tool belt for years after that. I still have it and it sits in my shelf with the side containing his signature pointed out. He was a humble person that was also obviously brilliant and the next time I did work for him was also special for a different reason. I had finished my work by noon and had the afternoon free. He invited me to stay for lunch and we ended up on his back deck playing chess and chatting the afternoon away. One of my favourite memories from when I was still working. He’s gone now, he passed away a few years ago and I made sure to attend the service. His wife came up to me to thank me for being there and told me that he never tired of telling the story of the electrician that took the time to play chess and listen to his stories. He may be remembered for the brakes he invented but he lives on in my memories and the stories I tell my grandsons.
Thankyouvfor telling this !
I really appreciate you sharing your story. Rest in peace, Mr. European man.
Last year, I blew off the remainder of a work day to just chat with a client. The only man I know to walk away from a 200 mph crash. Motorcycle crash. He lives and works like he races. But that day, he and I needed to stop back, let the rats win the rat race, and we got back to being human. We didn’t solve the world’s problems. But we were both ready to face the world the next day. We need times and connections like that.
@@justicedemocrat9357 do you need someone to acknowledge your existence? maybe a hug? don't worry, you'll meet that special someone, eventually.
THAT is a beautiful story. Thank you.
When you have a fanbase so blindly passionate about your bikes and their history, moving production out of country becomes a sort of betrayal to them
Production has not gone anywhere? You should probably do some research before making ignorant comments. All US bikes are still made here.
@@killaco23 its some part that are made outside of the us
@@killaco23 you said it yourself ... US bikes everybody in let's say Europe gets the non US build ones.
@@killaco23 Wrong. www.bbc.com/news/business-44604280
@@wernerwhatever4669 Not true, I live in London UK, and mine was manufactured in California
I was doing contract work at the HD motor/trani plant in Milwaukee. When I saw that they put both pistions on one journal, I couldn't beleive it. One connecting rod is split so the other connecting rod can sit in the split on the other connecting rod and the journal goes through them both. Junk.
I was one of those die-hard Harley guys for 10 years. Had 2 of them in that time and one ride on a Suzuki SV650 had me never thinking of Harley again.
Dealers were better, bikes far more reliable and you just didn’t worry about anything other than the “cager” going past you while on their phone.
The days of Willie G stepping up with his biker attitude and sending AMF packing are long gone. HD better get their heads out of their asses or everyone will be riding Hondas.
I'm neither a Harley fan or a hater at all. However, recently a nearby Harley dealer had a sales promotion. 'Come to us and you can test ride 2 hours, go wherever you want!' That's a promise in the heart of Switzerland with all the twisting roads. I went there and - nothing happend. One Harley owner was pushed to try a new model. 3 sales guys worked on him and try to convince him to do a test ride. He was reluctant, he didn't want. They pushed him and pushed and I stood there. They gave a #2 about me. So after 10 min waiting for one of the sales guys to say at least 'Hi' to me I just left. I went to the opposite BMW dealer and test rode a R1250R which I own now. Missed opportunity by stupidity.
and now u have a bike thats better in literally every single way
Same here
I've heard about this exact scenario happening to multiple potential customers at my local HD dealership too. Not only ignoring new buyers in favour of existing ones but ignoring new buyers even when there's no other customers in the shop. Only one of the guys I know went on to still buy a Harley but he actually travelled 50 miles away to another HD dealership to purchase his cruiser that same day. Something is massively wrong with Harley's sales strategy if this keeps happening over and over again in numerous locations.
I was after a cruiser with sports characteristics and was looking for something bigger than Kasasaki Vulcan S. My buddy had a V Rod, it was impressive but then I found out how much he was spending in parts to keep it on the road. I found my answer in the Suzuki M109R, it does everything the V Rod can do AND MORE, it looks the business, never breaks down and parts & servicing are not expensive at all.
Had exactly the same experience at my local dealership. I was really bothered with this so I got out and never looked back at HD anymore. Love my KTM Adventure... LOL
Harley Davidson in my generation, it was "Ride'em once fix'em twice" My Honda was "Get a Honda, ride it don't push it"
Funny you said that
Friday on the way home guy was pushing his HD in the break down lane
And their performance is just better for their purposes, compared to HD at least
"Buy a Harley, buy the best...ride a mile and walk the rest."
I had H-D XR 1200, I loved the handling, rumble with vance & hines exhaust (not like other Harlies or bikes). I regret that I had to sell it.
I remember reading an interview with a former ranking Hell’s Angel who said he tried to get guys to switch to Hondas/etc back in the late 70s-80s to no avail. There was a massive resistance to riding anything Asian-made (not really much of a surprise in a gang that, while not explicitly racist or white nationalist, could be said to have a lot of racists and white nationalists in it)
Considering that H.A was started by WW2 soldiers that fough the japanese, thats no wonder. I guess they didnt ride many german bikes either.
To be fair, lots of veterans & people of that era would never even buy a Japanese car, even if they were outwardly mild-mannered people. The Japanese did some really nasty shit
The Japanese were allies with Nazi Germany mind you, they did some terrible shit. Look up unit 731 where they torture people by cutting their limbs and sew them back together.
So yeah it's no surprise if the older folks didn't like japanese products, especially if they're war veterans whose friends were tortured and killed by the Japanese soldiers.
Lmao. Plenty of us are aware of unpleasant racial statistics and happily buy japanese cars and bikes. Now would I buy something made in India, Brazil, or Mexico? Probably not. And I'm Latino lol
@@georgerafa5041not a Royal Enfield fan?
If they spent half the money on R&D that they do on t-shirt design, they wouldn't be failing.
@@Hige-san It's mandatory by law in EU. Japanese bike makers didn't bother either until they were forced by law to make it standard.
Owned and rode Honda's for years. Bought a brand new SuperGlide, rode it a year, sold it. Bought a new Goldwing. Me happy again!!!
@@Hige-san The reason they made abs standard for all of them is because it's easier to make all your bikes compliant then try to estimate and meet demand in that particular region. Just like how California emissions compliance set the standards for most of the US and a ton of products have those prop whatever sticker on them. Easier to increase price, slap stickers on all products. Make abs standard, increase the msrp and nobody bats an eye. Offer it as an option and everyone loses their minds.
@@chuckweyant4872 I'm jealous lol. Enjoy the ride.
Thumping clunking engines based on1940s designs killed the British industry. The huge surprise is that Hardley even made it to the 1990s.
Harley: (arrogantly) They will buy what we build.
Japan: (humbly) We will build what they want.
It was all over from that moment.
Applies to US vs Japan too
America in a nutshell.
True enough but they also researched heavily so they knew it before we did. The Miata and brand Lexus both were a result of first, careful research.
There is a lot of truth to this statement.
So, in 2014 Harley-Davidson toured the dealerships with a Livewire prototype and asked riders, "Should be build this?" The answer was a resounding "Yes." Now, normally that would be considered an example of a motorcycle company listening to its riders - but this being the Harley Hatred page, no. It's an example of something else.
Japan humble? Don't make me laugh. Biggest racists on the planet.
Got rid of my Ultra Limited for a Goldwing and oh my god the difference is unbelievable. Folks like to compare the two, but they aren't in the same class at all. In my opinion, HD has been able to get by making mediocre products at elevated prices. To say a Goldwing is 30k and an Ultra is 30k therefore the HD prices aren't elevated is disingenuous. The build quality, quality of life improvements, tech, and reliability all come with that GW price.
I am an HD fan boy from Germany and this video made me visit "Our Strategy" on the Harley site. Key words like "lifestyle, iconic, desirable, desirability, soul and spirit, fuel our unique lifestyle brand", and so on and blabla, in fact sound like resting on one's history. If you are iconic you don't have to say that all the time. I also doubt that things like "product and experience for riders and non-riders" or "grow our complementary businesses" is enough of a strategy "to grow our leadership". Where are the hard facts? Try harder HD!
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
A former neighbor used to say loudly "I'm the man". He wasn't.@@skaldlouiscyphre2453
Campbell-Ewald was the ad agency for Chevrolet for about 100 years. That was their claim as well. Someone decided it was time for a change and change they did.
The famous quote about Harleys " Over 90% of Harleys built since 2000 are still on the road,, the other 10% made it home"
... 👀.... 😳..... That is sooo mean!!.. But... But.. Lmao... 🤣😂
lol
Not far from true.
Every Harley owner I've ever known has spent twice as much time under their bikes as on them. Giving me shit about riding a beemer and "when are you going to get a _real_ bike" while theirs are in pieces on the living room floor.
Steve Hofsaess my shirt reads " THE BEST THING IN THE HARLEY. SHOP WINDOW IS THE REFLECTION OF MY DUCATI " 😎😎😎😎😄😄😄😄🍺🍺🍺🍺
Let's take a second to acknowledge how well written and produced this segment is...bravo!
The production value of this channel is phenomenal.
agreed
I know right. I'm always impressed but the writing in this one is great. When he said brand loyalty belies brand prejudice.
Yeah..... I believe many have mentioned that
I remember when that tariff hit, Japan responded with all those tariff-cutting 700 cc bikes that everyone was riding.
As someone who has owned Japanese, and Harleys and Harley parts compatible motorcycles, the biggest problem is that even with all the technological innovations they've adopted, its design is still inherently primitive "horse and buggy" technology and requires more maintenance. The younger generations don't want to spend an afternoon polishing all that chrome either which is why HD has suddenly dropped the chrome bikes in favor of the "no-nonsense" black on black, or black on brushed aluminum etc. bikes.
This isn't going to be enough to help them over the hump because if for whatever reason, a bike sits for six months, you're going to want that bike to be anything other than a HD because it will collect ten times as much rust and dust as a Japanese bike. These younger generations know that one should never "lay up your treasure where rust and dust doth corrupt."
I went on a cruise for over a year, and when I came back my chopper was toast. Rusted to hell, the wiring harness was shot, pistons seized, etc. but my Suzuki not only looked as good as the day I bought it, but it fired right up as if I'd just parked it the night before.
It is incredibly brilliant. Japan did that to their own bike market as well. Build a 800 cruiser, stick a 750, 650, freaking 400cc motor because speed limit never exceed 75 mph, sell everywhere. They did that with Ninja generation 2 too, with 650 and 400 having the same exact body.
@@victoriazero8869 The smaller cc Ninjas look smaller to me. They have the same styling, but aren't they actually smaller and narrower motorcycles? I used to have Suzuki Bandit 1200. It had the GSXR engine, but the 650 Bandit had the Katana engine. If I remember correctly, they were both in the same frame though so I can see how there are bikes that are the same size with very different engines.
@@shnarklevonbarkle110 I'm not talking the 2018 Ninja 400, which actually share frame with the 250 and only weight 160 kgs. I'm talking 2011-2017 Ninja 400, aka, Gen 2, whopping 209 kg sports touring.
@@victoriazero8869 Thanks for the clarification. I don't really know much of anything about Kawasaki motorcycles except that they're known to be reliable well built bikes. I've known a few people who had 1000 cc Ninjas and a ZX10 and they were lightning fast bikes.
I've been contemplating buying a sports touring bike, but didn't even know they made 400 cc sport touring bikes.
@@shnarklevonbarkle110 Japan regulation splits motorcycle into a few classes: 50cc moped, up to 125 small motorcycle, up to 250 low standard, up to 400 standard, and over 400 big. 250cc class doesn't need inspection, and standard license that an 16-17 years old can obtain restrict to 400cc. In some way it's similar but different to EU.
I work in a dealership that sells Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, and a large selection of used HDs. I do believe Harley can make a beautiful motorcycle, we have a few full dressers that are absolutely gorgeous bikes. The bikes aren't really what turns me away, but rather the owners, as I never cared for the stigma that goes with them. I'd never talk down on anyone's bike, just glad to see folks enjoying the road! Currently have an '83 550 Nighthawk and an '88 Shadow 800, and my Hondas have treated me well! Happy riding y'all!
Not to mention, their sales and service experience is legendary for leaving it's customers furious.
I heard many bad storys about Harley bikes and Dealers...
Sellers who say to customers who enters the store "You looks like that you cant pay a Harley anyway", " Nonono! Dont touch ist, dont sit on it!"...
Small plastic bowls under the motor, in the store (new! Bikes) and the dealer says "Thats the character of that bikes"...etc...
@@drhkleinert8241 obviously never been into a Harley dealership.
Harley Davidson is taking too long to die.
@@eitkoml what Ryan failed to mention is all manufacturers bike sales are down Harley-Davidson is still the number one seller. Look at all the motorcycles around you at least 80% of them are Harleys.
@@wrongthinker350
Not the case here in Japan, I'd say maybe 5% of the bikes I see on a daily basis are Harleys, and that's being generous. The majority are Super Cubs and scooters, followed by Japanese inline four sporty types.
I died when he said that the trike was an oversized mobility scooter
That killed me too, man.
is it not though
@@gabrielcombs5654 yeah it is hahaha
My brother~n~law retired 5/1/2020 congratulations 🎊. He said he would buy a trike to ride with me. I have a 2015 Road Glide Special (amber whiskey) in color. I sent him this video he now says he will purchase a HD Ultra Classic. Hilarious
@@mrwilljones3015 You guys should consider some better bikes.
Harley-Davidson's biggest problem was that it got stuck technologically in about 1942. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki etc. realized that two wheeling was an appealing idea but not with some too big, too expensive, too dated machine. Of course, there were those that liked the offerings from Harley. But the larger market share did not.
Harley missed an opportunity to build a younger customer base in the 90s when they only produced the 50 minimum VR1000 models required to be able to race it in the AMA. Before writing this comment, I was surprised to see that it doesn't even have a wikipedia entry. What a huge blunder on Harley-Davidson's part.
I considered buying a Harley once. Had a wad of cash in my pocket and was fully prepared to drive away with my very first Street Bob. Walked in to the showroom... and was ignored. Walked up to a sales person but before I could speak, I was cut off and then told he would be right with me. He then took out his cell phone and placed a personal call. So I walked back to the offices, saw a door with the word "Manager" on it and knocked. I was told through the door to "go away".
So I did. I went away... and drove over to a motorcycle dealership that offered multiple brands. After talking to the sales person for about 30 minutes about what I rode at the time, what I liked and disliked about it, why I was interested in a Harley etc., he took me over to a lightly used Honda VTR1000. It had a 996 V-twin with more horses and torque than a Street Bob while weighing 210 pounds less. My 6'2" and 200 pound frame fit comfortably on it. Best part, with only 650 miles, it was 1/4 the cost of the Street Bob. The sales guy handed me a folder with its maintenance record... all done by their dealership.
Needless to say I bought it. I took a winding road on the way home and, as I accelerated out of a light sweeping turn, I felt something pressing against my chest. It was the gas tank. I let off the throttle the slightest bit and the front wheel gently laid back on the pavement. I glanced at my speedo and realized I was travelling well over the posted speed limit and hadn't even noticed. That was the moment I fell in love with the VTR1000.
I put 14k miles on that bike before selling it. From track days to work commutes and leisurely Sunday rides with my lady friend on the back, it was an absolute pleasure to ride. It was a smooth and tame ride... until I cranked the throttle. It was also fun to see the Harley guys do a double take as I flew past them on the highway. I am sure they heard my v-twin coming and were shocked to see that a Honda was making the sound.
So my point... Harley forever lost a customer that day back in 2007. All they had to do was hold their hand out and I would have filled it with a strap and a half of Benjamins. They couldn't be bothered. I know for a fact that I am not the only person to have had that experience. I guess we just aren't cool enough to own a Harley?
Some people had the same complaint about Harley here in Brazil some years ago. Harley 883s were all the rage, and younger riders would go to HD dealerships only to be mistreated by the sales team or shunned by the "hard-boiled veterans" Harley riders - which are actually a bunch of middle-aged and sucessful lawmen, doctors and businesspeople posing as rough and tough 1%ers. Talk about a shot in the foot. Now they are constantly having their asses handed to them by Triumph and Royal Enfield
I went into a HOG shop south of Denver somewhere, they advertised they rented out Harleys. Unpleasant experience.
@@babydriver8134 That's a pretty savvy move, actually. Shows they know their customer base well and brings in more money on the long run. For Harley, though, it's baaaad
Danbury (CT) Harley did that to my wife. We went to Stanford Harley and had an 06 Street Bob two days later.
Damn, that sounds like my 70-ish experience with Best Buy, like a 70-year-old doesn't know anything about a computer.
Harley will probably ignore these comments, just as they always have.
HD ignored mine for over 50 years.
When a hog has it's mind made up, it'll keep eating dirt until it dies. HD is almost back to ground level.
@@fm00078 Back to where they came from.
And I'll ignore Harley, just as I always have.
I'm 74 and still on an 1100cc Yammie. When I ultimately have to buy a three wheeler, it sure as hell won't be a Harley.
@@deltavee2 Virago?
@@spamviking Ah, a discerning eye. Yes, it's a 1999 Yamaha Virago XV1100SE. The SE is special edition, wire wheels instead of the usual, leather seats instead of synthetic. a little extra chrome, that's about it. They are bulletproof. I change the oil twice a season and run 94 octane to keep the @#$%! ethanol out of my fuel system. I have about 110,000kms or 68,000+ miles or 2 1/2 times around the equator and it still pulls hard. I run some stickier tires than normal on it. Gives the Sport boys fits in the twisties, since it's a cruiser.
You ride?
This is one dope video. You put in a lot of work on these and the end result shows. Great stuff. Thanks.
I'm a avid believer that people will buy what they like. Harley Davidson has been a perfect example of this for more than a few years. Their bikes are just gaudy, overpriced, underpowered machines that don't appeal to many people these days. They haven't remotely attempted to make a bike that will speak to the average younger consumer looking to get into a bike that isn't an underpowered, chrome covered bagger with a 75hp air cooled motor that weighs 700lbs and can't get out of it's own way for $25k. I bought an indian FTR. I gotta say I regret nothing!! Harley still has time to rebound and I honestly hope they do!!
And here I thought they killed themselves when they decided to sell a brand, instead of a motorcycle.
That wasn't very element of kindness of you XD
they sold on an image, and that image is dying
Tbh it's sad, bc i don't think i can like harleys, they are the motorcycle equivalent of a coal rolling truck, Very ineficient
It's worked pretty well for Apple... just sayin'
@@RENO_K Harley has actually released some incredibly efficient motorcycles, but nobody bought them because they weren't "Harley" enough.
@@iamtherealzombie phones are a necessity now so consumers think why not buy what the rich buy to flaunt their wealth. Motorcycles are basically death on two wheels( if you don't respect them), so the consoomers avoid them.
OMG, this video just touched on a experience I recently had with Harley-Davidson dealership. Back in January I went into a Harley-Davidson dealership and while price negotiating I offered $2000 less then what the asking price was and I was told to go and get a Honda, so I did. Thank you very much.
Well atleast props to the sales team for recommending you a good bike ;)
They act like they doin you a favor by selling you a bike
I find that attitude so self-destructing. I'm glad you went and bought a better bike. I've owned two Hondas. They've been fantastic.
Yeah, even here in Germany Harley dealerships and service treat customers like absolut shit, most times they make you pay overprized for work you didn't ask them for and then do it wrong and Harleys build quality is not good enought for justifying the prices.
I wish they will make it somehow because Harley really did build a big image for motorcycling, but just became old... like literally, their "rebellious" style isn't rebellious anymore.
And for example Royal Enfield seems to slowely come back into existence while staying true to the brand by having the "pure bike" expirience and being really affordable.. which is amazing!
@@RidersInBlack When people ask me if I like Honda, I say no, they are too good. The 900 RR was way ahead of it's time. That new Fireblade is just sayin' to everybody.. SCOOT OVER BITCHES! Bike is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad ass!
Your videos and your story telling is on another level! It's so good!
It's weird. I've been riding for 26 years, and all of the Harley riders I have met have been totally against any other type of bike, and they just sit there, in their small circle of friends, not accepting that two wheels for every single person on this planet, is dangerous and that we all break the rules sometimes.
Harley's problem is that they wanted to define bikers and say that everything which is not Harley means that you are not a 'real' biker.
All of us who have ridden multiple types of bikes know that being on two, makes you a biker, not the bike!
And the ironic part, is that Harley owners aren't even real motorcyclists.
Mate, that is one of the most balanced, incisive, scathing documentaries I have ever had the privilege of watching. Well done and thank you. Poor HD. It's a long road back especially internationally.
When you can buy a top of the line HD for the price of a mid-range family sedan, you can see why they're having trouble
But at least you can't hear your wife on the harley like you can in a sedan. 😏
Price alone isn't necessarily the problem. There are lots of other very expensive bikes. The problem is that Harley is primarily designing bikes that don't look a whole lot different to the bikes they sold 50 years ago and the kind of people who still want those bikes are getting too old to ride. Harley's a victim of its own marketing that was always about the heritage.
1anwrang13r I agree with you. Look at Indian’s top of the line bikes. They’re outrageously priced too. Harleys styling has not progressed much.
@@1anwrang13r almost nothing to do with how the bikes look I guarantee
There's not a lot you can change in the design of the bike simply cause the 45° large engine. But there's a lot of knock off's or wannabe looking Harley's.
Yet another well crafted vid. I remain impressed. Thank you!
This documentary is so well put together my man.
@@colinbamforth9034 He redid there video and i bet it will get more views cause its better.
@@colinbamforth9034 I get your point. I just watched the video and I see similarities. They may tell the same story, but I feel more related to Ryan's video.
Jens Roelant what are you guys talking about? Redid what video? Similarities to what?
Mark Gman Now I think they deleted his critical comments. He’s right - I saw it and it does look palagarized
@@markdesjardines6209 i wish he would have left it posted
This video should be played on repeat at HD Headquarters and every HD dealership in the world. And I've got 2 of them.
I keep rewatching this vid every few months. it never gets old. RIP Ray Liotta too.
A beautiful insight into a company I have no interest in, nor would I buy their products, but was absolutely fascinated by
Most young people who like Harleys buy them used from individual sellers because the price point of new
Harley's still caters to mid-life crises buyers with expendable cash, not the young crowd with student loan debt.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
Or get a real job and earn your luxury. Sorry harley wont sell you a 1200 bike new.
@@radtothebone23 plenty of people with real jobs are busy saving for houses/etc. A 30k bike that has a crap ride is not a necessity. The only point they're making is how overpriced they are
That's how most things that are not so disposable work. Most teenagers and young adults buy used vehicles when they're first starting out. That's been like that for a long time. Probably worked that way with horse back before cars, where the young people got the shitty horse and had to either turn that one into a good horse or make something of themself to get a better horse.
Although, most of the Harley used market that I see, I have almost always decided buying new was a better deal rather than being expected to pay for a bunch of extra shit that someone else thought was cool that I will throw in the garbage. Unless the accessories and upgrades are the same ones you would put on, they are not worth it.
Maybe when you say used, you are talking about what I would call "worn out". These are the money pits that would sour anyone's attitude. The old adage "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" applies here.
Hell I'm over 50 and have ridden HD for 30 plus years. Never ever bought a new one!