Imagine Charles vs Greb, fantasy fight u don't hear talked about much. I think Greb at MW, Charles at LHW, would have been awesome to get them both together at super middle, couldn't pick a winner.
One of the finest heavyweights ever to grace the ring. A highly intelligent boxer, with fast hands and able to deliver speedy combination punches. He had an amazing record of success.
IMO he's the greatest light heavyweight of all times, surpassing Roy Jones by light years. I'd say he's too 15 for Heavyweights (Maybe top 10), and probably to 15 for middleweights also. Overall I think he's one of the best boxers ever, but Sugar ray Robinson still comes out ahead of him. Charles is underrated
lexbogie1 Similar competition, but Ray Robinson went 170-1 against top contender after top contender in the Middle and Welterweight divisions over the span of a couple years. I'd still give it to Ray. Ezzard will always be a top 10 P4P fighter of all time for me though.
A fighter who beat Archie Moore three times and Charley Burley twice has to be considered an all time great. Also defended his title 9 times in only two years. Was never quite the same after the tragic Sam Baroudi fight.
I've got Ezzard Charles P4P #5. Phenomenal fighter! Greatest light heavyweight of all time by a margin and one of the most complete boxers ever. Never gets the credit he deserves as a defensive master and a great user of the ring.
Ezzard Charles remains one of my favourite all time boxers. He was not one of the greatest or even near greatest heavyweight champions, but a good one at his best. What he should have been was perhaps the greatest light-heavyweight champion of all time but was denied the opportunity to fight for that title because he was too dangerous. Forget the later defeats to Harold Johnson among others (good as that fighter was) Ezzard was already a shadow of his former self by then.
My uncle once told me that Ezzard Charles was a fantastic middleweight, but couldn’t get anyone to fight him at that weight (or Lt. Heavyweight), so he moved up to Heavyweight. Charley Burley was another whom nobody wanted any part of as a Middleweight.
Ezzard Charles was brilliant, a very underrated fighter, He beat legends like Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jersey joe Walcott, Joey maxim And many more, He also gave rocky Marciano the toughest fight of his 49-0 unbeaten career, The only problem was That towards the casual boxing fan he wasn't always that entertaining so perhaps that's why he gets underrated.
Great clip, thanks for the privilege. Charles was ranked the 13th greatest fighter of the last 80 years by Ring Magazine, ahead of other stars like Marvin Hagler, George Foreman, Archie Moore, Roy Jones, Joe Frazier and many, many others. He was a terrific fighter, first-class all the way.
THE most underrated fighter ever. Just a brilliant fighter with an outstanding resume. Archie Moore, Charley Burley, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith. The Black murderer's row and Ezzard beat every one of them. Just an amazing man.
His first fight with Marciano in 1954, has been described as one of the most brutal boxing contests ever staged. It went the full 15 rounds. Charles won 7, probably 8 of the rounds on points. But Marciano was given the verdict on points. I’ve seen that fight several times, and I still think Charles shaded it. Charles had everything in his boxing armoury and that’s why he had a brilliant success of victories in the ring.
Charles won 6 or 7 tops, it's famous for the fact if it was in the 12 round era now Marciano would have lost (although his gameplan would have been different if it was), but Marciano is the stamina king and knew those later rounds was were he'd come back and win. The reason we know Marciano was also winning, you can always tell because Marciano never punched as hard as he could unless he was losing. The reason being after he paralysed a fighter, he didn't want to do it again.
They should make a boxing video game incorporating a roster full of the classic fighters from the 1930s up until the 1980s. They could call it "ESPN's Legends of Boxing" or something. I have Fight Night: Champion and I've been trying to make a create-a-boxer of Ezzard Charles. He seemed like a nice, humble guy along with being a solid fighter.
Ezzard Charles was a natural light heavy and considered by the Ring magazine the finest light heavy of all time. He twice beat Archie Moore and was one of the few to knock him out when he was at his prime in the mid forties. He also twice beat the truly great Charley Burley who Robinson ducked no matter the money on offer. As a Heavyweight Charles seldom weighed more than 190 lbs and was beating fighters who outweighed him by up to a stone. It is important to recognize that he died from a neuro-degenterative disease and the signs of it had appeared during the latter years of his career possibly even when he fought and lost to Harold Johnson, another all time great.
It was the style of many great black fighters of the 40's Ike Williams and Johnny Bratton were 2 more. Who the first one was, who knows but they're beautiful to watch.
Ezzard Charles was 3-0 against Archie Moore with the 3rd fight ending in Moore being knocked out in the 8th round by a Charles right hook. Yup, Charles is the greatest lightheavyweight in boxing history. Period.
Charles and Tunney had a lot in common. They were both better known as heavyweight champion but were actually in their primes as light heavyweights but never held or even had chances at that title. They both succeeded past their prime legends at heavyweight and in part because of that never got the recognition they deserved.
ah, good to see the cobra on your channel, greata! awesome vid, i haven't seen a lot of this footage before. charles never gets the credit he deserves, he was as good a fighter as absolutely anyone from his era, one of the most avoided too. him and archie moore were the inspiration for james toney.
@gibememoni Yep. Certain fighters age differently in boxing. Back then, 32 was considered old for a fighter. Dempsey was 32 when he lost to Tunney. Tyson was past his prime at 25.
He never got his shot at MW and LHW but KO'd Moore at LHW and he won the HW and went 15 rounds with Rocky after the Baroudi tragedy and he was nothing like his best after that fight. I give Rocky a lot of credit, he was the ultimate competitor and his career was very impressive but he didn't beat the best versions of Moore, Walcott, Louis or Charles, not his fault tho and he could only beat who was around and he did that.
Great highlight of one of the greatest in history. Didn't you have a George Benton highlight at some point? It had a blues track on it IIRC. Did you ever repost it?
B. N. Willis Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Jose Basora, Jersey Joe Walcott, Joey Maxim, Elmer Ray and much more. Charle’s resume is far superior to Robinson’s, with due respect to both.
That's true and he went 15 rounds with Rocky despite being past his best and fighting above his best weight. Also think he fought much lower than LHW as an amateur.
I agree with you in regards to Louis but Archie Moore, Charles and Walcott were at their best imo. Most of the people who watched them said that they never looked better when they fought Marciano. Most hadn't seen Charles killer instinct in a long time till he fought Marciano. It was one of Ezzards best showings IMO
Some just don't get it and think that the more modern super big heavyweights would walk all over Charles. First off Charles is still more modern than most modern fighters, lol. I believe that a 6'7" heavyweight with long reach has a serious chance of getting eaten alive by Charles because Charles can easily slip inside and out. Within no time at all that super big heavyweight aint gonna want to throw any punches because of the Charles counters. Of course to be fair, if one of those super big heavies lands a punch they'll be doing damage too.
Luis Moreno I'm thinking that the Kbro's lack of mobility and speed is enough of an issue to allow a decent possibility for Charles to get the win. Make no mistake, it will not be easy to get past the long reach of the Kbros and I try to be fair and recognize that size can be a factor. I think Charles has it in him to be able to go the distance and win by decision vs the Kbros. The Kbros do not have iron chins either and I don't think they could survive getting countered by Charles such as getting caught by a counter left hook from Charles. I Agree that Charles is better skilled than Hopkins, but Hopkins is skilled too and deceptively intense. Hopkins is a very intense, driven, patient, well rounded fighter.
Luis Moreno Well said. I followed Vitali's career a bit more than Wlad's and for me Vitali has a great attitude and is classy guy. I feel that it is easy for their large sizes to actually be a disadvantage, because history has shown that it's difficult and rare to be that big and still be skillful. So generally I recognize that the Kbros are not ordinary by any stretch of the imagination, even though many hold them to the same standards as Louis and J.Johnson. It has to be incredibly difficult for the Kbros to fight and position like the smaller heavyweights. I agree that Vitali has a better chin than his bro. I suppose it could be easy to compare Charles vs Hopkins in the sense that Charles could do everything Hopkins could do and more. And with all the things that they both can do I also give the edge to Charles doing them better. However, sometimes Hopkins' defense could be slightly underestimated; he could be a real stingy conservative fighter whereas Charles certainly did fight a lot more inside than Hopkins and got caught a lot more. I do feel most of the footage we see of Charles is the toned-down gentleman version after that fight where his opponent Sam Baroudi died. And most of the footage is a heavier version than what Charles' natural weight might have been. No doubt, it's amazing to image how good Ezzard was without the extra weight he put on in order to make a living fighting heavyweights. He must have been so fast and smooth. Anywhere ranging from middleweight to cruiser he's gotta be considered as one of the best ever. Charles was vulnerable to big punchers and as dangerous as he could be he didn't have that next-level of power or that natural heavyweight power. So he took his share of losses.
Luis Moreno Fair enough, it's always been a bit difficult for me to determine exactly how powerful Charles was but I'm very open to good opinions and reviews that suggest he was a pretty powerful puncher. I think the few big punchers and powerful punchers rankings usually have Charles low on their lists. I've usually Ranked Moore higher than Charles in punch power. But truth is Charles was able to compete with anyone, so if he didn't have punch power he would have been crushed a lot more.
Luis Moreno I suppose Moore is a bit harsh to try and compare power too, lol, since he is one of the best punchers. We get influenced by all our experiences to some degree or another and I like a good variety of fighters and styles from all weight classes, all of which I learn something from, but there are a handful that are extra special to me that I have learned from and Charles is one of them. Relatively speaking, lol, I made sure I could do the things Charles could do in the ring; he influenced me a lot. Basically from those styles I always combined Louis' and Charles' style for myself. I figure if we combine Louis' and Charles' style we'll have one version of an ideal heavyweight. At their best who gets the edge, Charles vs Greb? This has to be a tough one.
Luis Moreno Piecing together what kind of fighter Greb was has to come from reading articles and analyzing who he fought because there's very little film. I'm still learning about Greb. Sometimes against all logical reasoning some fighters are just designed perfectly for their styles, maybe Greb was one of these guys. I mean that whole business about Greb fighting many of his fights blind in one eye and overall having poor eyesight, etc is amazing. He had to be a crafty resourceful warrior too. I like your points when comparing what Charles could do and what other greats couldn't. Yes I always believed that great fluid technique will usually produce good power too, as opposed to loading up for power. I also like speed over bulking-up/adding weight for power. Speed and sound technique should also produce good power. I think being slow or a slow puncher is a big disadvantage, especially against fighters like Charles. You also mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard. I think Leonard defies a lot of logic by just being an extra special fighter, just simply gifted for what he does, the kind that comes around every couple of decades if we're lucky. I gave a couple of searches from time to time to see if older footage surfaced of a younger Charles, but nothing much. It's the same for Jersey Joe Walcott; I'd love to see some young Walcott fights and how he developed into such a crafty and skilled fighter, even though many say Walcott reached his prime later in his career.
I like what ur saying, don't want to stir up a hornets nest with people who will disagree. I like that ur going by best versions of fighters as well. Tyson could also put together combinations with great power in every punch, a very rare skill indeed as well as being able to hit guys clean with shots they don't see all the time. I do like Joe Louis a lot tho.
Pretty much the same. Louis, Holmes and Ali are locks for me, I'm actually not Ali's biggest fan but can't deny his accomplishments so I think him and Louis are definitely the top two. I like Lennox and pretty much think he was a top 5 of all time. Johnson if he isn't he's damn close could maybe swap him for Foreman or Dempsey tho. I think Tyson's ability he should have gone down as that good but didn't quite live up to his potential, so I have him fringes of the top ten.
Despite youtube halfwit ah's protestations, It was generally agreed upon by boxing people that Tunney improved with each fight up to and including his final fight, with Tom Heeney. He was smart enough to quit before he passed his best.
In a fair world without the mob controlling and ruining 100's of top class boxers in the 40's he could have been middleweight and light heavyweight champion. He wasn't the only fighter who got sidelined for championship fights, but he's probably the greatest light heavyweight ever and could have cemented his name in the 175lb history. He was a beautiful puncher, especially with his left hook and beat the who's who and more than once including victories over Archie Moore × 3 and Charley Burley × 2, Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins. In my opinion, P4P only Ray Robinson is better
Billy Jordan and Johnny Dundee both said it was a pity Tunney quit when he did because he was getting still better with each fight. RUclips halfwit ah doesn't know who Billy Jordan and Johnny Dundee are.
Maybe looked good and fought their hearts out with awesome Rocky put in front of them but their best days had gone. Moore was over 40 and had an insane amounts of fights by then, Walcott was 37 or 38 something like that and Charles had around 90 fights at that time and all three had been in a lot of wars. Shame in their primes they would have been epic battles, the 1st fight with Walcott was anyway but I think Marciano would have come through except probably Louis.
My top 5 picks in no certain order are..... Marciano, at 49-0 with 43 kayos, he ALWAYS found a way to win. Lennox Lewis, I don't think even Ali would've been able to handle his jab and right hand, and the fact that Lewis stood 6'5" just adds to his advantage. I think the 87-89 version of Tyson also takes Ali. In addition to 1-punch kayo power in either hand, Tyson was also freakishly fast for his size, and Ali NEVER fought anybody even remotely that explosive. Ali & Holmes finish up the list.
I think the smaller versions of Moore and Charles would have been unable to hurt Rocky. I agree, though, that Louis would have beaten Marciano 3 or 4 out of 5. He was too fast, too savvy, and just too damn big and strong. Greatest of all the heavies imo. What are your top 5 heavies? mine are: Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Ali, Lennox Lewis and Jack Johnson!
He was never champ at lightheavyweight nor at middleweight..but he was at heavyweight so how come heavyweight aint his best weight? and Marciano beat the best of Ezzard Charles..whupped his ass yet nobody gives Rocky credit
Ezzard Charles mightve been the greatest heavyweight fighter in Boxing, guys were afraid to fight him even wen he was in his 40's. Great video!
Possibly the greatest light heavyweight of all time!
My favorite old-timey fighter. What a beast.
Imagine Charles vs Greb, fantasy fight u don't hear talked about much. I think Greb at MW, Charles at LHW, would have been awesome to get them both together at super middle, couldn't pick a winner.
JamesN976 greb is overrate white hype media creation,charles and many others would have destroyed him
One of the most underrated if not the most underrated boxer of all time
One of the finest heavyweights ever to grace the ring. A highly intelligent boxer, with fast hands and able to deliver speedy combination punches. He had an amazing record of success.
such beautiful boxer one of the all time greats absolutely love his style and power!
Ezzard Charles = greatest of all time
IMO he's the greatest light heavyweight of all times, surpassing Roy Jones by light years. I'd say he's too 15 for Heavyweights (Maybe top 10), and probably to 15 for middleweights also.
Overall I think he's one of the best boxers ever, but Sugar ray Robinson still comes out ahead of him. Charles is underrated
Matt Brozie Pretty much agree, would have been interesting to see how his career would have gone if the Baroudi tragedy never happened.
Matt Brozie no ,he fought tougher competition then ray robinson and im a huge ray robinson fan
James yea,that changed him,he ought alot less agressively,and wouldn't always go for the kill
lexbogie1 Similar competition, but Ray Robinson went 170-1 against top contender after top contender in the Middle and Welterweight divisions over the span of a couple years. I'd still give it to Ray.
Ezzard will always be a top 10 P4P fighter of all time for me though.
Great boxer who could also absorb incredible amount of punishment. In other words, complete package.
James Toney's favourite fighter !!!
I'm just now realizing that after living in Cincinnati for over 30 years, that road I sometimes use to get around town is named after this guy.
Man does this guy go underrated or what. Boxing genius
Cant have enough charles tributes
A fighter who beat Archie Moore three times and Charley Burley twice has to be considered an all time great. Also defended his title 9 times in only two years. Was never quite the same after the tragic Sam Baroudi fight.
Charles was one of the most underrated fighters ever. Lightning fast, with good power, great chin, and a true ring craftsman.
The Great Ezzard Charles a boxing science in full swing.
I've got Ezzard Charles P4P #5. Phenomenal fighter! Greatest light heavyweight of all time by a margin and one of the most complete boxers ever. Never gets the credit he deserves as a defensive master and a great user of the ring.
YES! Finally some respect for the Cincinnati Cobra!! One of my favorites. Great job Great A! Do more tributes because you make them just great!!
Ezzard Charles' nickname should have been Butter, 'cause he was smooooooooooth.
Very smooth... I'm not trying to represent myself as an expert, but he seemed to deliver punches without telegraphing them, at all.
He was a Warrior..
Rest in peace champ!
Ezzard Charles remains one of my favourite all time boxers. He was not one of the greatest or even near greatest heavyweight champions, but a good one at his best. What he should have been was perhaps the greatest light-heavyweight champion of all time but was denied the opportunity to fight for that title because he was too dangerous. Forget the later defeats to Harold Johnson among others (good as that fighter was) Ezzard was already a shadow of his former self by then.
my favorite fighter
My uncle once told me that Ezzard Charles was a fantastic middleweight, but couldn’t get anyone to fight him at that weight (or Lt. Heavyweight), so he moved up to Heavyweight.
Charley Burley was another whom nobody wanted any part of as a Middleweight.
Your uncle was correct.
Ezzard Mack schooled Charley Burley twice at 160lb.
LaMotta and Robinson wouldn't go near Burley.
This old boy was legendary
Ezzard Charles was brilliant, a very underrated fighter, He beat legends like Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jersey joe Walcott, Joey maxim And many more, He also gave rocky Marciano the toughest fight of his 49-0 unbeaten career, The only problem was That towards the casual boxing fan he wasn't always that entertaining so perhaps that's why he gets underrated.
Great clip, thanks for the privilege. Charles was ranked the 13th greatest fighter of the last 80 years by Ring Magazine, ahead of other stars like Marvin Hagler, George Foreman, Archie Moore, Roy Jones, Joe Frazier and many, many others. He was a terrific fighter, first-class all the way.
THE most underrated fighter ever. Just a brilliant fighter with an outstanding resume. Archie Moore, Charley Burley, Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith. The Black murderer's row and Ezzard beat every one of them. Just an amazing man.
No doubt, he was a scientist, what a great mind in boxing, he could do it all
Ezzard Charles was a great boxer; you can see that in these film clips.
A real human being Charles was and a great heavyweight Champ God bless him.
His first fight with Marciano in 1954, has been described as one of the most brutal boxing contests ever staged. It went the full 15 rounds. Charles won 7, probably 8 of the rounds on points. But Marciano was given the verdict on points. I’ve seen that fight several times, and I still think Charles shaded it. Charles had everything in his boxing armoury and that’s why he had a brilliant success of victories in the ring.
Charles won 6 or 7 tops, it's famous for the fact if it was in the 12 round era now Marciano would have lost (although his gameplan would have been different if it was), but Marciano is the stamina king and knew those later rounds was were he'd come back and win. The reason we know Marciano was also winning, you can always tell because Marciano never punched as hard as he could unless he was losing. The reason being after he paralysed a fighter, he didn't want to do it again.
Years ago in the early 2000s, I actually envisioned Ezzard's Biopic with actor Morris Chestnut being A GOOD FIT to portray him.
It's about time someone did a tribute for Charles, and I can think of no man better for the job than you, TGA. Great work.
this guy was a sharpshooter
They should make a boxing video game incorporating a roster full of the classic fighters from the 1930s up until the 1980s. They could call it "ESPN's Legends of Boxing" or something.
I have Fight Night: Champion and I've been trying to make a create-a-boxer of Ezzard Charles. He seemed like a nice, humble guy along with being a solid fighter.
dude had a cool name!
Ezzard Charles was a natural light heavy and considered by the Ring magazine the finest light heavy of all time. He twice beat Archie Moore and was one of the few to knock him out when he was at his prime in the mid forties. He also twice beat the truly great Charley Burley who Robinson ducked no matter the money on offer. As a Heavyweight Charles seldom weighed more than 190 lbs and was beating fighters who outweighed him by up to a stone. It is important to recognize that he died from a neuro-degenterative disease and the signs of it had appeared during the latter years of his career possibly even when he fought and lost to Harold Johnson, another all time great.
Warwick Onyeama sugar Ray Robinson ducked who? Charley burley. Lol get out of here.
Jerry Cammon it’s a fact. He also ducked the great Cocoa Kid. Get out of here and educate yourself.
Ezzard fights like Ray Robinson and BHop - interesting very good fighter.
It was the style of many great black fighters of the 40's
Ike Williams and Johnny Bratton were 2 more.
Who the first one was, who knows but they're beautiful to watch.
Amazing boxing & music
Ezzard Charles was 3-0 against Archie Moore with the 3rd fight ending in Moore being knocked out in the 8th round by a Charles right hook. Yup, Charles is the greatest lightheavyweight in boxing history. Period.
6:40 another example of one his clean counters that drop em'
Now i see who james toney modeled his game after, their styles are almost identical (even down to the bounce step)
agree
He's was a beast. A genetic freak.
What do you mean ?
awesome music.
Charles and Tunney had a lot in common. They were both better known as heavyweight champion but were actually in their primes as light heavyweights but never held or even had chances at that title. They both succeeded past their prime legends at heavyweight and in part because of that never got the recognition they deserved.
ah, good to see the cobra on your channel, greata! awesome vid, i haven't seen a lot of this footage before.
charles never gets the credit he deserves, he was as good a fighter as absolutely anyone from his era, one of the most avoided too. him and archie moore were the inspiration for james toney.
Ezzard Charles sure was a great boxer
@gibememoni Yep. Certain fighters age differently in boxing. Back then, 32 was considered old for a fighter. Dempsey was 32 when he lost to Tunney. Tyson was past his prime at 25.
He never got his shot at MW and LHW but KO'd Moore at LHW and he won the HW and went 15 rounds with Rocky after the Baroudi tragedy and he was nothing like his best after that fight. I give Rocky a lot of credit, he was the ultimate competitor and his career was very impressive but he didn't beat the best versions of Moore, Walcott, Louis or Charles, not his fault tho and he could only beat who was around and he did that.
Great highlight of one of the greatest in history. Didn't you have a George Benton highlight at some point? It had a blues track on it IIRC. Did you ever repost it?
In addition to the great Jersey Joe Walcott, THE CHARLOS, particularly JERMELL should view and add some of Ezzard's skills to his own.
I personally think he might the greatest fighter of all time. His resume is superior to Robinson's IMO
Not even. Kid Gavilan, Homicide Hank, Bobo Olson, Graziano, Lamotta, Fuller, Turpin, Basilio, etc. Robinson fought and beat everyone.
B. N. Willis Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Jose Basora, Jersey Joe Walcott, Joey Maxim, Elmer Ray and much more. Charle’s resume is far superior to Robinson’s, with due respect to both.
He is better than Robinson
True Legend
Thanks for posting friend. maurice
Warrior.
In my mind, the lock for no 5, as others have stated.
@gibememoni 2 times. And past his prime I might add. Once again, great video TheGreatA!
I wouldn't argue with that, there's not much seperating the guys at the top.
That's true and he went 15 rounds with Rocky despite being past his best and fighting above his best weight. Also think he fought much lower than LHW as an amateur.
I agree with you in regards to Louis but Archie Moore, Charles and Walcott were at their best imo. Most of the people who watched them said that they never looked better when they fought Marciano. Most hadn't seen Charles killer instinct in a long time till he fought Marciano. It was one of Ezzards best showings IMO
how in the hell u in your prime near 40 none of them was in prime including marciano
Tunney had not yet reached his prime when he retired.
That was my point, that although they won more fame as heavyweights they were both better as light heavyweights.
Damn that left uppercut was clean at 2:10
Some just don't get it and think that the more modern super big heavyweights would walk all over Charles. First off Charles is still more modern than most modern fighters, lol. I believe that a 6'7" heavyweight with long reach has a serious chance of getting eaten alive by Charles because Charles can easily slip inside and out. Within no time at all that super big heavyweight aint gonna want to throw any punches because of the Charles counters.
Of course to be fair, if one of those super big heavies lands a punch they'll be doing damage too.
Luis Moreno
I'm thinking that the Kbro's lack of mobility and speed is enough of an issue to allow a decent possibility for Charles to get the win. Make no mistake, it will not be easy to get past the long reach of the Kbros and I try to be fair and recognize that size can be a factor. I think Charles has it in him to be able to go the distance and win by decision vs the Kbros.
The Kbros do not have iron chins either and I don't think they could survive getting countered by Charles such as getting caught by a counter left hook from Charles.
I Agree that Charles is better skilled than Hopkins, but Hopkins is skilled too and deceptively intense. Hopkins is a very intense, driven, patient, well rounded fighter.
Luis Moreno
Well said. I followed Vitali's career a bit more than Wlad's and for me Vitali has a great attitude and is classy guy. I feel that it is easy for their large sizes to actually be a disadvantage, because history has shown that it's difficult and rare to be that big and still be skillful. So generally I recognize that the Kbros are not ordinary by any stretch of the imagination, even though many hold them to the same standards as Louis and J.Johnson. It has to be incredibly difficult for the Kbros to fight and position like the smaller heavyweights. I agree that Vitali has a better chin than his bro.
I suppose it could be easy to compare Charles vs Hopkins in the sense that Charles could do everything Hopkins could do and more. And with all the things that they both can do I also give the edge to Charles doing them better. However, sometimes Hopkins' defense could be slightly underestimated; he could be a real stingy conservative fighter whereas Charles certainly did fight a lot more inside than Hopkins and got caught a lot more. I do feel most of the footage we see of Charles is the toned-down gentleman version after that fight where his opponent Sam Baroudi died. And most of the footage is a heavier version than what Charles' natural weight might have been.
No doubt, it's amazing to image how good Ezzard was without the extra weight he put on in order to make a living fighting heavyweights. He must have been so fast and smooth. Anywhere ranging from middleweight to cruiser he's gotta be considered as one of the best ever.
Charles was vulnerable to big punchers and as dangerous as he could be he didn't have that next-level of power or that natural heavyweight power. So he took his share of losses.
Luis Moreno
Fair enough, it's always been a bit difficult for me to determine exactly how powerful Charles was but I'm very open to good opinions and reviews that suggest he was a pretty powerful puncher. I think the few big punchers and powerful punchers rankings usually have Charles low on their lists. I've usually Ranked Moore higher than Charles in punch power.
But truth is Charles was able to compete with anyone, so if he didn't have punch power he would have been crushed a lot more.
Luis Moreno
I suppose Moore is a bit harsh to try and compare power too, lol, since he is one of the best punchers.
We get influenced by all our experiences to some degree or another and I like a good variety of fighters and styles from all weight classes, all of which I learn something from, but there are a handful that are extra special to me that I have learned from and Charles is one of them. Relatively speaking, lol, I made sure I could do the things Charles could do in the ring; he influenced me a lot. Basically from those styles I always combined Louis' and Charles' style for myself. I figure if we combine Louis' and Charles' style we'll have one version of an ideal heavyweight.
At their best who gets the edge, Charles vs Greb? This has to be a tough one.
Luis Moreno
Piecing together what kind of fighter Greb was has to come from reading articles and analyzing who he fought because there's very little film. I'm still learning about Greb. Sometimes against all logical reasoning some fighters are just designed perfectly for their styles, maybe Greb was one of these guys. I mean that whole business about Greb fighting many of his fights blind in one eye and overall having poor eyesight, etc is amazing. He had to be a crafty resourceful warrior too.
I like your points when comparing what Charles could do and what other greats couldn't.
Yes I always believed that great fluid technique will usually produce good power too, as opposed to loading up for power. I also like speed over bulking-up/adding weight for power. Speed and sound technique should also produce good power. I think being slow or a slow puncher is a big disadvantage, especially against fighters like Charles.
You also mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard. I think Leonard defies a lot of logic by just being an extra special fighter, just simply gifted for what he does, the kind that comes around every couple of decades if we're lucky.
I gave a couple of searches from time to time to see if older footage surfaced of a younger Charles, but nothing much. It's the same for Jersey Joe Walcott; I'd love to see some young Walcott fights and how he developed into such a crafty and skilled fighter, even though many say Walcott reached his prime later in his career.
@scotthovsepian88
32 years old was past his prime?
I like what ur saying, don't want to stir up a hornets nest with people who will disagree. I like that ur going by best versions of fighters as well. Tyson could also put together combinations with great power in every punch, a very rare skill indeed as well as being able to hit guys clean with shots they don't see all the time. I do like Joe Louis a lot tho.
Pretty much the same. Louis, Holmes and Ali are locks for me, I'm actually not Ali's biggest fan but can't deny his accomplishments so I think him and Louis are definitely the top two. I like Lennox and pretty much think he was a top 5 of all time. Johnson if he isn't he's damn close could maybe swap him for Foreman or Dempsey tho. I think Tyson's ability he should have gone down as that good but didn't quite live up to his potential, so I have him fringes of the top ten.
Also, is the fight at 6:44 available in full anywhere?
Despite youtube halfwit ah's protestations,
It was generally agreed upon by boxing people that Tunney improved with each fight up to and including his final fight, with Tom Heeney.
He was smart enough to quit before he passed his best.
Tongue Click brought me here
Mickey Walker next????
In a fair world without the mob controlling and ruining 100's of top class boxers in the 40's he could have been middleweight and light heavyweight champion.
He wasn't the only fighter who got sidelined for championship fights, but he's probably the greatest light heavyweight ever and could have cemented his name in the 175lb history.
He was a beautiful puncher, especially with his left hook and beat the who's who and more than once including victories over Archie Moore × 3 and Charley Burley × 2, Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins.
In my opinion, P4P only Ray Robinson is better
I feel he’s better than Robinson
Billy Jordan and Johnny Dundee both said it was a pity Tunney quit when he did because he was getting still better with each fight.
RUclips halfwit ah doesn't know who Billy Jordan and Johnny Dundee are.
Maybe looked good and fought their hearts out with awesome Rocky put in front of them but their best days had gone. Moore was over 40 and had an insane amounts of fights by then, Walcott was 37 or 38 something like that and Charles had around 90 fights at that time and all three had been in a lot of wars. Shame in their primes they would have been epic battles, the 1st fight with Walcott was anyway but I think Marciano would have come through except probably Louis.
Tunney vs Dempsey was never close. Tunney won pretty much ever round in the first fight and the same with the second save the famous long count round!
My top 5 picks in no certain order are..... Marciano, at 49-0 with 43 kayos, he ALWAYS found a way to win. Lennox Lewis, I don't think even Ali would've been able to handle his jab and right hand, and the fact that Lewis stood 6'5" just adds to his advantage. I think the 87-89 version of Tyson also takes Ali. In addition to 1-punch kayo power in either hand, Tyson was also freakishly fast for his size, and Ali NEVER fought anybody even remotely that explosive. Ali & Holmes finish up the list.
RUclips halfwit ah could give Johnny Dundee boxing lessons.
I think the smaller versions of Moore and Charles would have been unable to hurt Rocky. I agree, though, that Louis would have beaten Marciano 3 or 4 out of 5. He was too fast, too savvy, and just too damn big and strong. Greatest of all the heavies imo. What are your top 5 heavies? mine are: Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Ali, Lennox Lewis and Jack Johnson!
Well, he certainly quit on top but you said he never reached his "prime" and that is a ludicrous statement. The guy fought until his 30's.
whatever you say Mr. "Gene Tunney never reached his prime" dumbest statement I ever heard!
Frazier, Liston, Ali and Foreman were all on steroids. The fighters that Charles fought were normal sized because they werent taking steroids!
Another great fighter that marciano gets no credit for beating 3 times
thats bullshit..stop talking about prime and what not. Its all meaningless!
He was never champ at lightheavyweight nor at middleweight..but he was at heavyweight so how come heavyweight aint his best weight? and Marciano beat the best of Ezzard Charles..whupped his ass yet nobody gives Rocky credit
cut it out whiteboy dont get hype cause a white man won a fight edzzard was not in his prime
ah93704 go educate yourself before making such baseless comments.