Rings of Power Season 2 A MESS of Contradictions
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power 2 Reviews are nearing release as the Amazon Prime series enters its marketing phase. With Rings of Power official trailers appearing at SDCC Amazon showrunners did various interviews with professional critics and journalists to give them a presentation about Rings of Power season 2 and answer questions about it's future. There was even behind the scenes pictures and set walkthroughs for some magazines like IGN. But despite Rings of Power showrunners JD Payne and Patrick McKay saying the right things, does everything line up? Is rings of power true to J. R. R. Tolkien's themes? Is Rings of Power worth watching?
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Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power Season 2 reviews and trailers are just weeks away as the marketing ramps up. But as the Showrunners do interviews with the professional critics and press, does it make sense? I'm not sure how a series all about the villains is really in the theme of Lord of the Rings. How making the Orcs sympathetic and people feeling sorry for Sauron the dark lord himself is meant to be a positive change for the story. While I do appreciate them saying this series will have a faster pace, even that they claim is because they are more complete with the audition process. Why didn't you cast all of the required characters before? Does that mean you deliberately wrote around characters you knew you needed? And why don't you know if the stranger is Gandalf or not? There are many questions and weird contradictions in the interviews, and it doesn't fill me with hope. But what do you think? Let me know your thoughts down below and as always, thanks for watching :)
She's got PTSD because she's seen things and not the things you've seen!!she's seen other things😂
I think I'd rather watch Disparu review Rings of Prime than actually watch it.
The thing is you should pity the Orcs. They are a slave race, breed for war (like the clones from Star Wars) and are evil because being evil is the cultural norm for them. Tolkien was uncomfortable with the Orcs being descendent from Elves, or the idea they could not be redeemed. So, if they want to show how screwed up Orc society is and that they act the way they do because they have no choice, it could be interesting. Just so long as it's made clear they act the way they do because they are slaves, always in pain, and Sauron is to blame.
Disparu, I refuse the watch Rangs Of Power, so "I have not seen what you have seen!"
@Folker46590 Would you make that same argument about Hitler?
What’s wrong with good vs evil, all of a sudden? Why are we supposed to feel sympathetic for the bad guys in shows now?
Because Hollywood is trying to gaslight us into accepting their amoral bullshit. They’ve ramped up on this stuff SIGNIFICANTLY ever since Epstein got uncovered for what he was. They’re scared that we won’t love them when we see how evil they really are.
So we show sympathy for those that are corrupt when they put boots on our necks. Why do you think that governments are worried right now? We aren't buying what they're selling. Same with rings of "power"
Because they want you to believe that there is very little to no difference between you and someone that is evil.
I wouldn’t touch Rings of Power with a 10 foot pole, BUT am I really the only one who disagrees with Disparu here?
Some of my favorite shows have complex characters which are not obviously good or evil.
Sure it might not be a good fit into the Tolkien’s world, but take Game of Throne as an example. Morally grey or even despicable characters with redeaming qualities here and there is what made it so captivating.
One of my personal favorites was also SG:Universe.
What I am trying to say is that when done right, morally grey stories are absolutely awesome, especially if you can sometimes root for the bad guy.
It’s also a healthy type of world view. If you do understand, that you are not inherently the good guy and you are capable of commiting evil acts, it teaches you to double-check your own moral compas.
When the people making the show ARE the bad guys, of course they're going to try to make you feel sympathy for them and everything they do.
“In 1939 an Austrian painter set out to reclaim his homeland so that all his people would have a safe country to live in, where they would be free to prosper and live happily.” - Amazon’s new WW2 series
😭 What a touching Man, Too bad he is not veagan that will sell even more.
Id watch that.
@@rogerloger1935 He was vegetarian, the warning signs were all there.
the more time passes the more that galadriel Shindler list analogy make more sense....
@@Craftymcstabber Because the Baby Boomers still haven't given up on the Soviets being the good guys, and only that particular fellow makes Russia look good by comparison.
As a lover of Tolkien, I don't care about Ring's of Power.
As a person with more than four brain cells, neither do I
That's not how you use apostrophes.
As a lover of Tolkien, I only watch the reviews of Rings of Power and laugh 😄
Same, my wish was for a live action version of the fall of gondolin or an ambitious retelling of Feanor's story. Instead they're spending all that money on crap.
Personally after the first episode I diregared it as Amazon LotR fan fiction. Made watching and talking about how bad it is much more enjoyable.
Kinda like the Blacolyte (as a star wars enjoyer) it's so bad at face value the "lore" inaccuracies simply add fuel to the fire
That burns down your stone temple.
I'm starting to see a pattern here. The Sith are good, Orcs are misunderstood, witches just want to be left alone.......
I wonder what it all means? 🤔🙄
stop noticing patterns, STOP IT
That's what I am thinking. Every show is pushing evil is actually good. Ending lives if your a specific look is okay in their books. In the real world, you can't call people doing these acts evil. Schools say now that Evil is subjective. Love to see them in WW2 in an area, would be crying their little eyes out. It's to break the younger weak minds.
in the original expanded universe the sith were jedi than fell to the darkside and wage an distructive war than lasted a century, they lost and they were banished untill they reach the planet korriban and met the sith species, they conquered them but they become so obsessed with power than they turn against each other and killed eachother, in the end their leader regret what he did and beguin to wander the tombs for millenia, i wonder how they would adapt that
@@marcelo3939Sounds amazing.
That the crazed, blood-soaked murderer who just gutted your children in front of you should be free to express themselves in any way that makes them happy and you're wrong to stop them.
To be fair, I'd pity the Orcs considering they have the massively hard job of trying to be more evil, than the 'heroes'.
They took our job!
And I would dare say they're already failing at that. "Protagonist" is fast becoming synonymous with "protagonist-centered morality".
I am noticing a trend in every show coming out. Make EVIL sympathetic? You can't rationalize evil, you see it, but only a narcissists', twisted morale human says, man I can relate with the guy doing massive murder to innocence. Maybe he just didn't feel good that day, got to be kidding me. I know that some weirdos across the internet get to defending this crap, but you know they are just lost children, that show parents have failed this generation and the last beyond recognition. Proof Tik Tok lol. Dumbest breed of human, and showcase of a failed society. So yes, I would believe that they would tell me evil is good, lol. Murder is up, R P E is up everything that shows a decline in humans on every scale, oh and self deleting, and these people see beauty. Just sick.
Harfoots Vs. Orcs would be nice to see. A good way to remove them frome the series.
@@rogerloger1935DOOKURJERB!!!
Tolkiens' work isn't meant to be interpreted. He wrote what he meant. Evil is evil, good is good.
@datadata-hc4yz I would agree except Tolkien said that he wrote what he meant. It wasn't intended to be "interpreted" by pretentious college grads who pretend there is a hidden meaning to everything that only they can understand because they are "educated." Robert Frost is intended to be interpreted, not Tolkien. The only parts open for interpretation is the poetry Tolkien wrote as that is the purpose of poetry.
@datadata-hc4yz “I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” -J.R.R. Tolkien
@datadata-hc4yz You say everyone is free to interpret stories how they like, and your right. Everyone is free to be wrong, and that's ok. What's not ok is Amazon taking Tolkien's work, which is NOT open to interpretation per his own description of his works, interpreting it to represent a "modern" audience, and then selling it to fans as a Tolkien product. It's intellectual theft. THAT is the foundation for the negativity. It is not at all unfounded. If they wanted to create something to represent the "modern era" then they should have picked a product that wasn't defined or come up with their own IP, but they can't because they are creatively bankrupt. What they are doing is taking something beloved and destroying it and then justifying their garbage by saying it's their "interpretation" then calling the fans ists and phobes because we don't appreciate it.
Imagine if they decided to do a remake or sequel, prequel, or whatever to the Titanic and made all the people robots and the ocean lava and then set it in space. It would make no sense to call that "Titanic 2". It would be something entirely different because the Titanic is historical fact. Tolkien intended his works on Middle Earth to be a form of English Mythology. A chronical of events that "took place" a long time before history. You cannot retcon history to fit your agenda. You want to push agenda, then make your own story. THAT is why we're angry with Amazon and we have every right to be. If we just shut up and color this crap will never stop. It needs to be met with resistance if we are to get back to good entertainment. The movie trilogy wasn't perfect either, but it aligned with Tolkien's intent. THAT is what made the trilogy good. That is why it was successful.
You can sit on your high horse and pretend everyone is complaining for no reason, but then you're just self-identifying as a person who doesn't care that much about the source material. We like the wholesomeness of Tolkien. Rings of Prime is a bad fan fic that is undeserving of the title Lord of the Rings because its messages are contrary to the original story and its values. I have every right to come here and second Disparu's take on it. If you don't like people complaining about it, *YOU* can change the channel or leave the comment section. To come here and tell me that I'm being cynical for no reason and say just "keep scrolling" is disingenuous and contrarian for the sake of having a different view point/virtue signaling.
I appreciate that you are willing to share your point of view, but your view is based on a lack of understanding. To tell people that do understand the material they are being babies is just you being a crybully. Take your feelings out of the equation and focus on the facts. The fact is LotR is not ambiguous nor allegorical. It is a fictional history of Middle Earth. If Prime were faithful to the original text then they wouldn't be getting so much push back. Give me a faithful adaption of Tolkien's works and I'll give it raving reviews. That's not what was given.
@datadata-hc4yz you're talking in circles. If you won't hear what I say, go read Tolkiens quotes.
@datadata-hc4yz latching onto the word interpretation and theoretically fighting for the right to interpret without acknowledging the substance or the context of what it is that you're criticizing, is ultimately pointless. You're writing a lot of paragraphs in order to defend something that you don't even like.
Acolyte: "Let's take this story about good and evil and introduce moral relativism!"
Rings of Power: "Let's take this story about good and evil and introduce moral relativism!"
Eventually they'll learn from their mistakes. I'm hoping they go bankrupt first.
Spot on. Moral relativism is absolute garbage. Reject modernity, embrace tradition!
How would they go bankrupt when they’re producing the propaganda they’re being paid to produce?
Trump: "Let's take this story about evil and introduce moral relativism!"
They're not making mistakes.
It's all part of the plan. Also, Mr. Larry Fink supports many a commercial failure. It's not about money, it's about sending a message.
Ah yes, when that Orc suggested cutting off the legs of Merry and Pippin so that they could eat meat, didn't you just feel sorry for them? They only had old bread for three days, after all.
And then they fell to eating each other.
@@MemoristCed, "looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"
*Maggoty* bread for three *stinkin'* days. How dare you downplay their trauma.
After 3 days of *running without rest* and only eating *maggotty bread* i dont know how sane id be either
@@TheSatisfiedPig That's just extra protein!
There’s nothing wrong with complex or even morally grey villains, but that’s 1) only if the story itself allows for it and 2) if you have competent writers. ROP does not meet either of these requirements. In reading Tolkien’s writing on the Second Age we learn Sauron had a chance to repent, to turn from his dark path and submit himself to the judgment of the Valar after Morgoth’s defeat. He rejects this and flees to continue doing evil in Middle Earth instead. In LOTR we learn he poured his essence, his hatred, and his will to dominate into the One Ring. The ring is then described as “altogether evil” by Gandalf and others. If your very essence is “altogether evil” not much room for sympathy.
Even the Lannisters in GOT weren’t “altogether evil.” They had bits of positive and even noble qualities that would show up on occasion. But if you’re altogether evil, just lean into it. We don’t need to sympathize with every villain.
Exactly! They have to have basic competencies to write such well and they clearly don't, at least on the shows I've seen (e.g. WoT).
It's also called variety. You can't advocate for a diverse range of story telling and only stick to 1 archetype. Heck even when purely evil villains were more abundant in fiction that doesn't mean they were the only kinds they ever had.
@@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881 Even in every other LoTR media, the overarching fight with Sauron which was good vs evil, was the climax. You had several other smaller arcs of "villains" that were diverse in both execution and motives. lt was never "There's only Sauron and all the books will be a big fight with him through the course of centuries".
Hell there is room to explore Middle-earth moral complexity, especially in the Second Age setting!! Which is full of complex moral situations...hell the entirety of the Rings plot is focused on that....the Elves were not wholly good or in the right making them plus they were deceived by Sauron in his master plan...none of that is in the show as it is! Hell the vision of the Second Age by Tolkien would have given room to explore that grey morality...the Numenoreans became cruel imperialists long before they were in the clutches of Sauron and directly corrupted and moved by him! They grew arrogant and selfish after tasting power in Middle-earth.
"The three main themes (of the Second Age) are thus The Delaying Elves that lingered in Middle-earth; Sauron's growth to a new Dark Lord, master and god of Men; and Numenor-Atlantis. They are dealt with annalistically, and in two Tales or Accounts, The Rings of Power and the Downfall of Númenor. Both are the essential background to The Hobbit and its sequel...
There is Sauron. In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy and becoming his chief captain and servant. He repents in fear when the First Enemy is utterly defeated, but in the end does not do as was commanded, return to the judgement of the gods. He lingers in Middle-earth. Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power - and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves).
Thus, as the Second Age draws on, we have a great Kingdom and evil theocracy (for Sauron is also the god of his slaves) growing up in Middle-earth. In the West lie the precarious refuges of the Elves, while Men in those parts remain more or less uncorrupted if ignorant...
Meanwhile Númenor has grown in wealth, wisdom, and glory, under its line of great kings of long life, directly descended from Elros, Earendil's son, brother of Elrond... In the first stage, being men of peace, their courage is devoted to sea-voyages....Mostly they come to the west-shores of Middle-earth, where they aid the Elves and Men against Sauron, and incur his undying hatred. In those days they would come amongst Wild Men as almost divine benefactors, bringing gifts and knowledge, and passing away again - leaving many legends behind of kings and gods out of the sunset.
In the second stage, the days of Pride and Glory and grudging of the Ban, they begin to seek wealth rather than bliss. The desire to escape death produced a cult of the dead, and they lavished wealth on tombs and memorials.They now made settlements on the west-shores, but these became rather strongholds and 'factories' of lords seeking wealth, and the Númenóreans became tax-gatherers carrying off over the sea evermore and more goods in their great ships. The Númenóreans began the forging of arms and engines...
A new religion, and worship of the Dark, with its temple under Sauron arises. The Faithful are persecuted and sacrificed. The Númenóreans carry their evil also to Middle-earth and there become cruel and wicked lords of necromancy, slaying and tormenting men; and the old legends are overlaid with dark tales of horror. This does not happen, however, in the North West; for thither, because of the Elves, only the Faithful who remain Elf-friends will come...
The Second Age ends with the Last Alliance (of Elves and Men), and the great siege of Mordor. It ends with the overthrow of Sauron and destruction of the second visible incarnation of evil"
But of course Tolkien did it amazingly well with a cautionary tale sort:
"In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants, by a triple treachery: 1. Because of his admiration of Strength he had become a follower of Morgoth and fell with him down into the depths of evil, becoming his chief agent in Middle Earth. 2. when Morgoth was defeated by the Valar finally he forsook his allegiance; but out of fear only; he did not present himself to the Valar or sue for pardon, and remained in Middle Earth. 3. When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned. If he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world.
To attempt by device or 'magic' to recover longevity is thus a supreme folly and wickedness of 'mortals'. Longevity or counterfeit 'immortality' (true immortality is beyond Ea) is the chief bait of Sauron - it leads the small to a Gollum, and the great to a Ringwraith."
@@LyseanEmpire Tolkien nicely sums it up writing in a letter:
"‘Some reviewers have called the whole thing simple-minded, just a plain fight between Good and Evil, with all the good just good, and the bad just bad. Pardonable, perhaps (though at least Boromir has been overlooked) in people in a hurry and with only a fragment to read and of course without the earlier-written but unpublished Elvish histories [The Silmarillion]. The Elves are not wholly good or in the right. Not so much because they had flirted with Sauron, as because with or without his assistance they were 'embalmers'. In their way the Men of Gondor were similar: a withering people whose only 'hallows' were their tombs. But in any case this is a tale about a war, and if war is allowed (at least as a topic and a setting) it is not much good complaining that all the people on one side are against those on the other. Not that I have made even this issue quite so simple: there are Saruman, and Denethor, and Boromir; and there are treacheries and strife even among the Orcs. [Besides], in this 'mythology' all the 'angelic' powers concerned with this world were capable of many degrees of error and failing, between the absolute Satanic rebellion and evil of Morgoth and his satellite Sauron, and the fainéance of some of the other higher powers or 'gods'. The 'wizards' were not exempt. Indeed, being incarnate, they were more likely to stray, or err. Gandalf alone fully passes the tests, on a moral plane anyway (he makes mistakes of judgement). Since in the view of this tale and mythology, Power, when it dominates or seeks to dominate other wills and minds (except by the assent of their reason) is evil, these 'wizards' were incarnated in the life-forms of Middle-earth, and so suffered the pains both of mind and body.’
‘So I feel that the fiddle-faddle in reviews, and correspondence about them, as to whether my 'good people' were kind and merciful and gave quarter (in fact they do), or not, is quite beside the point. Some critics seem determined to represent me as a simple-minded adolescent, inspired with, say, a ‘With-the-flag-to-Pretoria’ spirit, and wilfully distort what is said in my tale. I have not that spirit, and it does not appear in the story. The figure of Denethor alone is enough to show this; but I have not made any of the peoples on the 'right' side, Hobbits, Rohirrim, Men of Dale or of Gondor, any better than men have been or are, or can be. Mine is not an 'imaginary' world, but an imaginary historical moment on 'Middle-earth' - which is our habitation.’"
"We know men are weak" = five words straight from the source that explain so, so much about why this show is unwatchable.
You know that when the show's writers read about the corruptibility of the race of men in Tolkien, it played right into their progressive politics: "Men are weak? OMG exactly, and women are strong!" 🙄
@@MathsYknowWait, they’re that dumb?
They don’t know that “man” and “mankind” traditionally meant “human” in older Fantasy works-during Tolkien’s time?
Don’t get me wrong, as a girl growing up I despised those terms for making it seem like women did exist or were irrelevant, but I understood the meaning.
I still prefer “humanity” or “humnankind” but I’m not going to complain when I older forms are used. Especially in works as old as Tolkien.
@@mikoto7693 I was just joking that the ROP writers would misinterpret Tolkien's writing to mean that the male gender is physically weak, but that WOULD explain a few things. I remember Galadriel pushing a couple of guys into a cell with one hand in the first season - it looked completely unrealistic.
@@MathsYknow Yep. They didn't grasp the fact that "Men" in that sense referred to humans as a whole. Until the last few decades mankind meant both (there are only two) sexes as a collective.
They also missed the part where one of the mentally strongest female characters in Middle earth, Galadriel is terrified at being offered the ring as it will corrupt her faster than anyone.
@@mikoto7693You are aware that woman is a younger word than man/men? And exactly how does mankind and man make it sound like women doesn't exist? Or were irrelevant? If anything you can argue the opposite... it makes men trivialized as they are not uniquely identified as are women... when talking about the plurality of the species they are simply just "part of the whole", while women being relevant have been distinguished uniquely...
Or you could just accept it is a quirk of how language evolved... all languages have weird shizz, like young girl being grammatically gender neutral in German....
3:34 - Disparu: "I honestly don't know how we're going to pity the dark lord" We shall pity him for the show he appears in.
Pity stayed Bilbo's hand from endjng Gollum once he saw what a wretched creature Smeagol had become.
Sauron, on the other hand, hatched a secret plan to bind the leaders of Men, Elves and Dwarfs to him so that he can rule the world.
Not quite the same thing.
I PITY THE FOOL
We might feel a little bit of pity when we remember that Guyladriel is more evil than he is. She's cold-blooded, ruthless, seems to be incapable of gratitude, and did not tell her fellow elves that the guy they had just nursed back to health who suggested the mithril alloy to make rings of power is actually the evilest being she has been searching for for hundreds of years. She just let him walk away. How is that not the most evil act in that show?
@@ufeelinselfrighteous8470
I had totally forgotten that the T in Mr. T stands for Tolkien! 😁
@@dronesclubhighjinks wait is this genuine
It breaks my heart every time a foreigner refers to Hollywood bullshit as "American values."
I can’t underline this enough. Most Americans (and unfortunately silent yet thankfully decreasing majority) don’t like the Hollywood junk either and some still have true American values
And yet, as an American, I can't blame them either. 😕 That's the image the world is seeing, and it's pretty dang embarrassing.
@@ThatAnnalisa Hollywood gets to choose what they see. It hurts but it can't be helped, yeah.
In fairness, english values are doing everything we do but with knives and brown shirts putting you in prison
@@darthvader6533Err… you do realise that your ancestors made a point of fighting so that they-and you- could be different from the British?
5:07 I beg your pardon, sir. Orcs also like to dine on elves , dwarves and hobbits. Well, anything that breathes, actually. They are not picky.
They will also eat things that no longer breathe
Your just an Orc-o-phobe......
is an 'ist of some kind, I've lost track.
"Looks like meats back on the menu, boys!"-The Two Towers
Yea meat is meat 😅
"Meat"? What else they be eating?? Salad?
How can you tell when someone's evil? When they tell you that you should sympathetize with villains.
Their own argument would justify (in their minds by their own logic) what funny-moustache man of Austrian-origin did, but they wouldn't say he wasn't evil if you asked them. It shows how completely disingenuous they are.
Don't forget the big mustache man from Georgia. I do not mean the American state but one of the 14 (iirc) constituent parts of uss r.
@@dronesclubhighjinks, or the bald moustache man from Japan.
and the funniest part, Austrian painter was not evil!
@@stowlicters8362 Yup, he's one of the most obvious examples of history being written by the victors, not least the part where his political party, which was firmly on the far left of German politics, magically transitioned to being far right after WWII. Or how about how he, just like a current orange man, had his speeches butchered and taken out of context by the media to make him appear like a deranged madman, rather than someone stating true and obvious facts which the people running the media (who happen to be from a certain tribe) don't like.
You're clueless mate with your example.
The people doing THIS and everything else in Europe and around the globe are the exact same group who told you those lies in your example.
The Bible talks about the times when people will call evil good and good evil. Trying to normalize evil is evil itself.
U do know that according to the bible, god created evil too?
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7
If Amazon actually read anything of what the fans were saying, they would've shut down the whole operation and written it off for taxes.
Exactly
Ah yes... Evolving, reading... From people who don't even know who Tolkien is... These kinds of people are the same kind that think that "Paradise lost" is a story about how Satan is just misunderstand and a good guy... Also, that part about casting. It sounds really bad when you think about it. It sounds like they are first casting people and then writing characters around real people. Not casting people who can play character the best (and we have seen that so many times already). Just remember that all of this is financed by the money you spent on Amazon services.
I actually stopped buying from Amazon because of ROP
God gave them a choice and they chose evil. They were perfect that's why they're unsympathetic when they turned bad
Exactly. Just because you provide an *explanation* for the antagonist/villain's behavior and actions-- as Milton does in PL-- that is not the same thing as a *justification* for those actions ; and that's a distinction that, ultimately, I don't think these showrunners understand (and, to be fair, I think a lot of people don't understand this distinction). At the end of the day, Tolkien-- much like Milton, and much like many Christian writers before-- views the desire for and love of power (power for power's sake alone) as an inherent moral evil; providing the villain's own *internal* justification for his actions-- while it can often flesh-out the character and make his actions and motives more clear-- is not the same thing as a *moral* justification.
The funniest thing about their "hopeful" section, about the Wizard exploring the rest of Middle-Earth, is the Wizards *weren't EVEN **_IN_** MIDDLE-EARTH AT THIS TIME IN THE LORE!!!!!!!*
The show runner did not read any of the books, let alone the simarillion
When they kept saying "back to the books, back to the books", the books they were referring to were their favorite Winnie the Pooh coloring books, which they keep along with crayons, teddy bears and Oreos in their safe space.
The showrunners don't understand timelines, it seems. Nor distance, or physics😂
_Clearly_ the elves have faulty memories
@@juliemaiifanai8365 They must have gone to the same school as the "writers" of The Acolyte.
this is the 'Wicked' effect. After the Broadway show successfully turned the villain into the sympathetic good guy, it set off a whole genre of 'the bad guy is actually the good guy' and 'the good guy is actually the bad guy'. It's practically become cliche by now.
I'm still waiting for the story of how Gaston was a simple game warden who shouldered the burden of leading the village when the prince disappeared without warning, and Belle is a moron who thinks she's educated because she reads the same romance novel over and over. The conclusion could be the height of the French Revolution.
A certain scripture comes to mind how in the last days, “good will be called evil, an evil will be called good”
and yet the difference remains ins series like Beserk and it's offshoot: Dark Souls. Yet somehow it's done so well.
@@MemoristCed Neo Gastonists rise up!
To be fair, the Wicked show and book treated the flip-flop much more fairly. The problem arose when everyone else was like "OOH, LET ME USE THAT IDEA" and didn't give the treatment the same type of attention and care. There are exceptions to this now established rule (Snape from HP is a great example, did truly reprehensible things but we can understand where he was coming from), but the vast majority of these types of flips don't provide nearly enough grounding for the actions of the bad-to-good/misunderstood character to be truly felt as just a misunderstranding or them actually trying to do good.
Like I don't know what these showrunners are going for. Sauron is evil. The orcs are evil. The movies and the books have established them to be thus. You'd have to do 5 seasons of setup just to provide enough background and groundwork to cleanse them of the fact that they are evil. Not just waive a wand and see it done lol.
Some German guy thought he was doing the right things too, turns out he was just pure evil, imagine making a series to try and make you pity and agree with him, disgusting
If you mean the Mustache Guy then he was Austrian not German.
He did, he warned you. Now your society crumbles
correct. Mao knew he was evil...
@@blablubb8615 Fair enough but it was Germany he took over, he took over Austria as well 5 years later though
America took his scientists and data and the rainbow his snazzy uniforms. ...you can make a fabulous purse out of a sow's ear
I love how you address this topic with such honesty.
“Mah guhl Galadriuuuuhl” lives rent free in my head.
The ROP writers have NO idea about Tolkien or his legendarium. This show is a disgrace to The Professor's legacy.
I'm not going to watch the show, but I'll happily watch Disparu shred each episode
Also sounds like they're still able to bullshit certain journalists into believing whatever they say. Seems none of them learned the first time around.
That's why I'm surprised movie fans don't like it
"I'm gonna sit thru something I can't stand just to make a point"
LMFAO! Jesus you nerds are hilarious. Just move on if you don't like it.
Tolkien was the first fiction series I ever read. I loved those books. Curse you Amazon/Hollywood!!!
That is amazing! That is a very advanced reading level as I will have to assume you were a child at the time.
Sauron doesn’t think he can rule “better” Sauron craves order, it’s in his nature, he is an angle of order, the problem is that he craves order at the cost of everything else.
i thought he would be more of a circle of order. jokes aside. yes, it shows that every extreme is bad.
Never thought they'd be able to make me hate something related to Tolkien. Even the smallest amount of respect to the source material would have made this show a money printing machine.
Don't worry this is nothing related to Tolkien, do not give them the satisfaction of that, this is from activist that got money too make their propaganda
Man, I remember the good old days of LOTR games, the Third Age was such a cool RPG. Even having something as ridiculous as a "backup Fellowship following the main characters" still made more sense than Rings of Power.
Right
Everyone loves lor
So disappointing
We haven’t gotten anything good since
@@Badghost_ None of these new shows do. We will have to have a re re re re re re re telling of the shows/Movies 10 years in the future. I love just watching old free movies on YT, why watch this new crap designed for evil, young/old mentality of teenagers lol. It's sad to see I loosely call parents now a days allow their kids to watch this mind screw of shows.
@@SammEater did the music bug in yours? in mine it was fine for like 5 playthroughs then some part of the gamehad the music bug each time so i tried a freind disk and it also bugged at the same spots....when i say bug i mean music cutting, muting or plain looping
What they fail to understand is that the only way to be compassionate towards Orcs in tolkien is to give them a quick end. Their existence is cruelty and suffering.
Or they could steal from Joel Haver's RPG Series and sent the orcs to therapy sessions where they learn to stop hating themselves.
@@EvilDoreshNow I would watch that. Ever thought of pitching a show to Netflix?
@@noladavis5085 I'm to white, cis, hetero and male to get approved
@@EvilDoresh How about identifying as a trans female Pygmy and when people question you make Tik Tok videos about the hate crimes you have suffered.
Thranduil: beheads orc.
Legolas: why did you do that? You promised to set him free.
Thranduil: And I did. I freed his wretched head from his miserable shoulders.
Makes sense when you realize the writers don't see the Orcs as servants of evil, they see the Orcs as black people.
Or Mexicans, if you go by new D&D art
I have no memory of this place…..
LOL !!! Love it.
I like how some people think 'good person' means 'no evil inside', when the entire definition is whether you give in to that evil.
"The Orcs just want a place of their own, so they can grill... ... human flesh." 🤣
And tender Hobbit flesh
All of these marketing materials and industry-approved articles just tell the general audience what the studios know people want to hear about their favourite IP's. And then they do the exact opposite of what they are saying. I'm surprised you haven't referenced Wheel of Time yet in this video, since it's another Amazon property that attempts to do exactly the same thing in gaslighting the fans. As a fellow WOT fan (and a LOTR fan too) I know you're very familiar with the WOT playbook.
Tolkien screaming in his grave " that's NOT what I meant! " he was teaching us and showing us how to be good and honourable , I can't anymore with modern movies & series
The closest equivalent of pitying Sauron I can have is pity for, what I personally think is, his inability to actual understand what good is and that the best he can do is make sure he controls everything personally. I'm afraid that after being corrupted by Melkor, redemption will forever be beyond his reach. No sympathy for his actions (even less so in this shoddy show), but still...
I was finally out when Galadriel forgot to tell anyone about Sauron, i hated how they screened Galadriel one of my favorite Tolkien Chars. They literally made the one of the greatest magic users and leader of her people a laughable unadult, crying and insulting innocent people, literally not a likeable character, before i faced this disaster i thought this to be impossible. The sexual tension with Elrond is a joke too, the man is her son in law at the event time married a millenium to her daughter...the show is the acolyte for Tolkien
"Is he evil or stupid?" Yes.
You can't blame him, evil and stupid was bundled as a two-for-one offer. What a bargain!
@@Andreas_42 It was on sale at the dollar store?
One wig to find them all,
One wig to hide him.
Slap a wig on saurons bonce,
They will never find him.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If the wig be yellow, be where Trump lies.
Wait until the orcs start chanting the power of one, the power of two , the power of maaany.
Then in the last episode they had Trinity, accidentally kill their entire coven by severing their mind control connection over the wooky.
Power of many?
The One Ring.
The Two Towers.
The Many Orcs.
It all checks out.
The orcs will scissor up an orc horde the likes of what Sauron has never seen.
Is Amazon trading homework with the "writer's "at Disney
Wtf is this fascination with making evil good and good evil?
They want us to accept their evil. I firmly believe they’re using this as subtle propaganda to try and soften the masses into accepting how psycho they really are.
It HAS to be that. I refuse to believe anyone can be this stupid that this show is actually just their best effort lmao
They are desperately trying to paint the horrible things they say and do as something other than the evil it is. It's about using their frequent tactic of re-defining things to reclassify their own evil as "actually a good thing".
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20
It's to get you use to evil acts, I can quote something that said this would happen 3000 plus years ago, but it's here and they have a hatred for that book go figure.
they are evil, this is common in trash tier fanfiction
Thank you, so much, for putting the image of Sauron and the Witch-King saying sweet nothings in bed together into my head.
S: "I don't like sand."
WK: "I prefer liquid hot magma."
S: "Oooh, so do Eye."
Pure glee? Are we sure they don't mean sadism?
Man, the Mystery Box style of writing should be banned.
If you want to create a mystery then actually think of the payoff instead of writing with no actual plan like these talentless frauds are doing.
Or worse, _changing_ your plans because you keep reading fan theories online and don't want anyone to turn out to be right
No villain in history of villains thought himself to be evil villain... not Morgoth, not Shaitan, not Voldemort, not archdemons, not Lucifer, not even that one Austrian painter... Why (becouse they themselves are more evil than good) they act like its some profound revelation and yet totaly missing its point. Understanding their motivation is not same as it being justified.. Closest thing to true villain, that comes to my mind would have been Joker, knowing he is evil, doing evil just for evils sake, but now they gave him backstory justification too (still great movie tho)..
You should always have sympathy for the devil.
He's a man of wealth and taste. 🎶🎶
I mean, its just the nature of his game.
Tall , rich , evil, rich... Yeah, the perfect man for modern women. Hope they are happy together...
ORC lives matter...
Other than a complete reboot that declared season one never happened, nothing can fix this.
also actually buying the rights of what you want to make helps instead of dancing around it with index entries
In Poland we have a saying HELL WAS PAVED with GOOD INTENTIONS! Sauron thinks he is doing good? Amazon really is like devil itself
Lol ...wut?
At this point Sauron was all about ruling with an iron fist. He gave up being nice pretty quickly after Melkor was captured.
He only played nice when he was trolling people as Annatar.
The modern hack writer: morality-bending beloved stories
Don't forget gender- and race-swapping characters, then marketing the resulting product as a triumph of representation and diversity, while not mentioning the story at all.
Five seasons? Disparu's future is assured.
I note the showrunners said they'd be up for 5 seasons. I think Amazon's only committed itself to two so let's hope for the best that this is the last. Most already know how crap the first season was so most won't be back for the second.
The problem with having a victim fetish… you try to find redemption in the absolute, purposefully crafted, embodiment of evil. They’re seen as evil, they’re a victim of society. How can I find a way to make them the ‘good guy’ of this story?….
I heard season 3 is basically going to be "Roots" but with Orcs
Roots for the Ents would actually work. It could actually be faster than season 1.
So they want to make Sauron tragic, despite him being literally a demon. What are they going to do? Have a scene of Sauron in Tol-in-Gaurhoth stroking a werewolf puppy that then gets killed by an elf?
😏😆
Yeah, I had to post a rant also.
Sauron is a LITERAL DEMON that served THE DEVIL of Arda, Morgoth.
Morgoth is the inverter of the idea of evil.
OMFG its aggravating when the people being paid millions to create this stuff cant be bothered to actually read the books and learn who these characters are.
They would rather make it all up as they go along.
honestly wouldnt be surprised one bit
They make him longingly stare at a painting of him and Morgoth, his beloved.
To be it wasn't that an analog to trenches didn't exist, it's that someone running up and stabbing you was a major threat to your ranged units, so rather then digging a big hole, you took the dirt and piled it up in an embankment that would block arrows and people trying to run up and stab you.
‘They’ do not love Tolkien
They hate him
This situation reminds me of an old quote from a far better show, “It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.”
I am not watching this series, But i will see your review !!!!!!!!!!!!!
This interview shows me that Hollywood knows EXACTLY what their problems are but have no interest in fixing them
I think I understand their extremely EXTREMELY subtle writing...
Season 2 will probably have a peaceful protest with the orcs chanting 'From the River to the Sea....'
I switched allegiance to Sauron within moments of meeting Galdriel.
The creators [joke] of RoP fundamentally misunderstood Tolkien. It's telling, for a show set in Middle Earth, that there is not the vaguest trace of the tone and spirit of Tolkien's writing. Personally I found it offensive and disrespectful to the legacy of one of our most significant authors.
their goal WAS to be disrespectful and offensive
They don't misunderstand him. They plain don't _care_ about him and his work.
Yes, they followed in Peter Jackson's footsteps
All Evil needs to win is for Good to accept it!
Again, as far as I know Tolkien DID actually feel a little bit sorry for the orcs he even speculated on where their souls were supposed to go after they died, and basically wrote that it probably wouldn't be impossible for them to one day learn to not be so evil, since they were elves to begin with, good created by the true deity always winning out over evil and so on.
He didn't sound very hopeful, just wrote that it should be a possibility.
These guys on the other hand are just going "you know, that which he thought was evil... Maybe it was just sexy instead?"
Your last paragraph applies so well to the recent acolyte episode, in which the "good twin" Osha is fascinated with the unclothed appeal of the guy who just murdered seven of her Jedi acquaintances/friends/former master.
In one DLC to Shadow of War game there is that one orc that is so god damn old he remembers Morgoth, saying that Sauron is just an usurper and is, in orcs standard, a pretty swell dude. Come to think about it, the entire cast of orcs in that series of games (Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War) are cool and sometimes funny characters, even, as orcs, they are mostly evil, selfish monsters. Imaging them making a tv series around that concept.
Heck, even the live action trailers for SoW were better than Rings of Power.
@@dronesclubhighjinks He _did_ have great abs
I like how they keep ignoring that they've already destroyed the order of the rings. The elven rings weren't made first. They were the last made before the One Ring. And Celebrimbor made them on his own, not with the help of Galadriel. The order of the rings was one of the simplest things to get right and they still screwed that up and aren't even admitting it. Why would I trust them to do better?
Oh there are some gems of articles coming out on screenrant, tells us all about how wonderful season 1 was, they go into all sorts of details, its a pure joy to read. Im very much hoping to see a video here about them. Frickin love your content disparu!
I feel like the entire world could say they dont want this and they will still make it. I will never pity sauron he doesnt think he is doing good he wants to watch middle earth burn he wants elves, men, dwarves, and any other who wont bow to him dead. This is pathetic.
Sauron creates an online retail market in Mordor. Orcs spend less, and smile more.
If someone gave me a billion dollars for a modern short season of television that didn't even need to be good, I'd be committed to a 5-season arc too.
Ah saddam hussein, my favourite wrongly understood super-sexy hero-deemed-as-villain. Must be the moustache.
Or the fact he Was a well respected western ally when he invaded Iran. It was doing the Same thing in kuwait that got him into trouble.
@@daswasich1147 pardon for late response, you got the niche of it, but its the inverse, why would one have love for a villain when you _do_ know how it ends up, you could, more easily write sauron (or to be sauron) likeable, shit, i think someone who is in 20s could write that. Comment was to meant very sarcastic, or perhaps i misread, in some sense rings of power is a masterclass of writing of, how not to write
Enough with making evil good. That is evil
Underrated comment
whenver you play a game with a good faction and an evil faction, which one got the most players?....yeah i know
Amazon are on the same level of Disney and deserve the same level of apathy.
Why give money to people that hate you and the things you like?
there was a timewhen people would only give them steel...such a simple time too
We now have to endure adverts on prime in order to fund season 1 of this utter folly. God knows in what way Amazon will find to pass the hat around for season 2
the real problem here is all the "we think..." they talk about. lets be clear here, NOBODY CARES ABOUT WHAT THE DIRECTORS, THE PRODUCERS, THE ACTORS... THINK!! this is a story that was written by tolkien, and later refined by his son christopher. either you follow as close as you can whatever those two wrote, specially the first one, or you can fuck off. you want to write you asinine fantasy story about bad guys that think they are doing good and orcs that want a home, you can do that, but dont call it lotr or dont use tolkien's name to do it. make your stupid story using your own talent, create your own world, create your own characters and try to sell it using your name, and then what you think would matter, at least to the 3 people that would give two fucks about it.
Remember, these two apparently worked in HW as writers for 10 years yet never managed more than a single ep of ST Discovery between them. They lack talent and I assume earned a living being paid for never used spec scripts. I still can't fathom why they were chosen other than it sounds like they were able to bullshit Amazon execs better than others with their pretended knowledge of Tolkien to someone who had far less. How do such egos evolve with zero proof of talent?
Satan doesn't RULE hell, it was made to be a prison FOR him.
"This will be closer to Tolkein, so that's why you'll pity Sauron!"
Tell me you hate Tolkien without telling me you hate Tolkien.
i must admit, I haven't watched Rings of Power at all but I have watched all 3 lord of the rings several times, and read the books.
I imagine Sauron as an insatiable and selfish form of hunger, at any cost. The only way you could introduce a women to Sauron, is that she were tempted by his darkness, and ultimately used and discarded or killed by Sauron.
Villains don't get a Journey. Only Heroes. Villains are usually entrenched at the beginning of the tale and are the obstacle the Hero (who is synonymous with the self), must over come. This is the mythic archetype.
Really digging your videos, keep it real!
Those 4 "influencer" parts are just so annoying. I just dont why they thought real lord of the rings fans wouldnt see though their bs within seconds. ROP season 2 is going to be a trainwreck.
Whoever had the idea of using these "super fans" obviously was not a lord of the rings fan and doesn't know any either. They probably thought they were trying to appeal to a teenage audience, not to the nearly middle-aged people who have fond memories of the movies, and who are probably already Amazon customers. All the streaming services desire is new people who will sign up. They don't seem to consider that people who sign up can also cancel their subscription but anyway.
This is what they think their ideal fan has to be like
@@EvilDoresh I don't want to be a gay clown
From what I get, they're just trying to make their lack of talent and creativity less obvious by making evil characters seem more empathetic, trying to spin it as something cool and different. They're pulling the same trick with the Acolyte in Star Wars. Evil Jedi! But no matter how wild the story gets, if the writing's weak, it ends up like this.
@17:30 I love how you sum this up about the mix of good and evil - when Tolkiens work was explicitly against that concept.
That to accept a little evil or to embrace that evil was inevitable and endemic was exactly what Tolkien’s story said was the failure of men and the lands of men. That embracing evil was a subtle and growing temptation (that destroyed the world of the High Men)
Orcs kinda be like an American Cultural group, poor victims.
I'm getting flashbacks to "the trollocs aren't evil just hungry" from last year.
Modern Hollywood writers can't write morality tales because they're incapable of understanding that just because you WANT something to be true, and say something is true, doesn't MAKE it true. This is because they live in a little weird bubble in California where reality is based upon likes, and all that matters is that you APPEAR to be good (and be seen doing it on TickTock) not that you actually do good things.
You can believe the world is flat , that Galadriel was attracted to Sauron, that the Alcolyte is actually good and this is actually good writing, but that doesn't make it so...
The fact is this is a poorly disguised trashy fanfic with a bunch of self inserts by writers with gigantic chips on their shoulders who didn't get picked to be on the team in high school, that didn't get to take who they wanted to the dance , and never looked in the mirror to realize that the world isn't always fair and they are not the center of it.
Instead they went to college and got taught a weird ideology that blames all of their problems on other people . They then got jobs in Hollywood where they hide behind Shields of perceived persecution and continue to make garbage safe with the knowledge that their bosses won't dare fire them
Spot on, but at some point, it becomes like talking to a wall. Amazon refuses to even try to respect Tolkien and have chosen to gleefully destroy all they can - Melkor style, everything connected to his works.
Even with all the negative feedback I gave RoP a chance, three episodes in I was done - it’s a bad piece of entertainment much less anything close to what Tolkien created. And when I expressed my disappointment and dissatisfaction with the show I was labeled an -ist and a -phobe. All because I called out a bad TV show for being bad.
But I do find Disparu’s, Drinker’s, HvBF’s, etc…vids a hoot! Their reviews and analyses - now that’s entertainment!
FFS nobody needs to "evolve" LOTR. It is perfect.
They should try reading Tolkien. Actually reading it.
I get simping for the villains, but this is nuts!
The wizard heading east, seems to be a ref to the two blue wizards that went east. After this they disappeared from the lore.
Thanks to a certain country, we don't have to imagine anymore how it would be if someone is willing to even commit genocide to have "a home of their own"
Sauron thinks he's doing good? LMAO, this is what happens when you don't know anything about LotR lore.
Even in their twisted tv show, Sauron just wanted out, to stop being under Morgoth's control, until Galadriel pushed him back to evil lol.
Sauron (in the books) DID want to do good. But his methods became increasingly questionable. Also he wasn't under Morgoth's control, Morgoth being banished from Arda.
@@earlofdoncaster5018yes but this is between when he's banished and before he really starts doing much, so there's a possibility he's not quite used to not being under morgoths control
@@earlofdoncaster5018 He was Morgoth's pupil. His follower. He didn't want to "do good". He wanted control. Those are not the same thing.
@@earlofdoncaster5018 He wanted to do good when he was still with the elves, but they're talking about Sauron and his orcs in the Middle Earth.
Oh the bit about being under control, I was talking about the Rings of Power show, not the original lore.
@VeraldoAncodini he NEVER wanted to do good, don't fucking lie, some of us read the silmarillion and it's extremely clear that sauron was the first to join morgoth in evil and never turned from that path for even a moment
'Strange powers have our enemies, and strange weaknesses!’ said Théoden. ‘But it has long been said: oft evil will shall evil mar.’ Tolkien.
F
Amazon 😅
These writers have zero talent and less self-respect.🤨😔
Disapru....you don't realize. Hollywood made a movie called "Volcano" in the the 90s where one erupted suddenly in Los Angeles. The city survived because of plot armor and evil! If only Tommy Lee Jones realized that he was protecting evil in that movie!
I can like evil antagonists just for them being cool when they do their stuff, I don't need them to have some kind of wicked plan that is actually to benefit the whole world in a roundabout way.
One of those villains that comes right to my mind is Jack Horner from Puss in boots the last wish, he is just a piece of shit, even made a meta commentary how he just likes being evil, and it is really fun to watch him and what atrocity he commits next.
Remember that close up face of "Galadriel" last season when she said that she was going to kill "Sauron" ? That was pure nightmare fuel for me. And that is pretty much the face that represents this "strong female character" trend. Angry, merciless and borderline insane.
I wouldn’t touch Rings of Power with a 10 foot pole, BUT am I really the only one who disagrees with Disparu here?
Some of my favorite shows have complex characters which are not obviously good or evil.
Sure it might not be a good fit into the Tolkien’s world, but take Game of Throne as an example. Morally grey or even despicable characters with redeaming qualities here and there is what made it so captivating.
One of my personal favorites was also SG:Universe.
What I am trying to say is that when done right, morally grey stories are absolutely awesome, especially if you can sometimes root for the bad guy.
It’s also a healthy type of world view. If you do understand, that you are not inherently the good guy and you are capable of commiting evil acts, it teaches you to double-check your own moral compas.
I don't think Disparu has a problem with gray morality as long as it's executed perfectly and in very capable hands.
The point is sauron is literally a GOD OF PURE EVIL he literally can't be good, they just doing poor writing
If it's not for Tolkien's world, which is the subject, how is he wrong then? What are you disagreeing with? He's not talking about in general. He's speaking specifically about adding that into a world it doesn't belong.
@@debanydoombringer1385 As few of you guys pointed out already, I may have misinterpreted how those statements were meant. I assumed they were very general and broad.
If the argument is "morally ambivalent villains and heroes don't fit into Tolkiens world" - I don't have anything to disagree with.
What I thought the argument was, however is this: "Any attempts to make a compelling and somewhat sympathetic villain is postmodernist bullshit and should be questioned even in other shows. Like giving the villain a small pet showing his caring side."
As a fan of both Disparu, but also The Expanse, SGU, GoT, BetterCallSaul and BB, Peaky Blinders, And then there were none, AlteredCarbon, Catch 22 and other great shows dwelving into the human psyche. -> I felt like my favorite type of story telling was under fire.
Shows with complex characters (or simple characters in complex situations) are in my view synonymous with competent writing
I hope it's now a bit more clear what I intended to push back against / critisize.
No hard feelings
I think it’s more so the fact that woke Hollywood keeps screwing around with existing stories and breaking all the pre-existing rules of that universe.
GoT is a complete different universe and was written in such a way where the different perspectives of characters tied in with that universe and the pre-existing rules, so it made sense.
The only right thing would have been to admit mistakes, apologize to the fans and either change direction completely, which is practically impossible as long as the same people are working on the project, or stop the whole thing. The arrogance of these people to simply ignore the consumer and stubbornly carry on is truly unbelievable.
They think they are in the right.
Remember that the show runners said the Tolkien fans who dislike this show are "patently evil." There was an article containing this quote in "the Hollywood reporter".
Also that far-right types like Tolkien. "Fa$cist-adjacent" was the precise adjective.