DECKEL CLONE MODIFICATIONS 1
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2018
- Discussion of my choice of Deckel Clone and first of a series of improvements.
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I am "robinrenzetti" Instagram lots more content there!
Shars wheel adaptor is 505-1008 must call in to get these it won't show up on web.
Stefan Gotteswinter / syyl
Tool & die guy / @thetoolanddieguy
Tom Lipton Oxtool / @oxtoolco
Sunday morning, cup of coffee and a new Robin-Video, perfect.
Thank you for the shoutout :)
The extended travel is very well executed, nice.
Have you considered something for protection against grit/dust? I am thinking about a leather-apron that coveres everything below the dividing head spindle.
Nicely done execution with the moglice. With the words of RichKing that stuff is as close to machine rebuilding magic as it gets. My lathes bed- and crossslide run on moglice for the last 5..6 years and they work perfect.
Thanks Stefan, the cover sounds like a good addition. The scraper seals really squeegee the shaft perfectly clean. I have a lot of things I want to redo but I already have too many projects that must get done.
ATB, Robin
There is a lot of improvement-potential on the whole workhead ;)
I re-milled all the dovetails, they where a bit ugly out of the box.
Stefan,
Did you build up low spots on your lathe bed and cross slide directly with the moglice?
Any reference to do that?.
Thank you,Chuck.
Great video Robin. I never knew those offshore copies had all the cool accessories that my Deckel doesn't have! Your modifications really extend the capabilities of an already versatile setup.
Talk to you soon.
Tom
Thanks Tom, looking forward to it!
ATB, Robin
excellent as always; looking forward to seeing it in action.
Thanks Tony and thanks for watching and commenting.
ATB, Robin
Good thing you bought the cheapo China model. It saved you a truck load of cash over buying a Deckel that you would have had to re-engineer to your liking. Ha! Your work is truly inspiring! Makes me strive to do better. I just imagine a tiny Renzetti on my shoulder as I'm working saying "Really? You're happy with .001? Don't you know there's more zeros to the right of the decimal point?"
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
This is literally what the internet was made for. Being able to learn from a true master is something that used to be reserved for a very fortunate few. Now, through the generous efforts of folks like Rob, and his youtube cohorts, this knowledge and wisdom is accessible to anyone. I learned an absolute sh-t ton about precision fitting machine tools in this single video alone.
Speaking of aluminum diamond loaded laps, I recently had a need to enlarge a round hole in a hardened sheet metal punch/die setup from 3.55mm to 3.70mm, and I remember Robins video about the large aluminum laps he showed, and since I had no other way basically to do my job, I decided to make couple aluminum small diameter laps, a 3.60, then 3.65, then 3.68, with a small taper at the tip, and try those with coarse (~15-20 um) diamond paste to "drill" that die from 3.55 to 3.70, and it worked like a charm, for the last 3.68 I used finer diamond paste, and the hole came out very close to 3.70, with the surface finish pretty much mirror like.
Out of curiosity I later checked if my aluminum "drills" had any wear on them, and both 3.60 and 3.65 hadn't changed in size, not to a degree I could measure anyway, 3.68 I didn't measure, since the first 2 already showed what to expect. The process produced some heat of course, I had to cool the die in water a few times, but that much I expected.
Huge thanks for that idea Robin, it saved me a lot of headache and time finding the right people to fix that die for me.
Thanks, glad it was helpfull and thanks for watching and commenting.
Hello Rob, thanks for this nice video. Can't wait for the next one. I already wrote a similar post like this one but it disappeared somehow. So since I think it will interest your viewers I write it again. For those who are interested to learn how to grind single lip cutters on a deckel SO clone (or original) there are a few but not many sources on the internet.
One is on the youtube channel of Stefan Gotteswinter. There are a few more on youtube but they are not very instructional.
Then there is the tool and die guy who used do have 5 or 6 sample videos on youtube to promote his collection of 300 videos about tool and die making of which some (I guess a dozen or so) are about single lip cutter grinding. Since a few months these 5 samples are not on his channel any more. The five sample videos were good enough to be recommended. They contain complete step by step instructions. However sometimes you have to watch it several times until you can follow. On his web site with the same name he asks $67 for accessing all 300. If you are interested in tool and die making this is a real bargain. If you are only interested in single lip cutter grinding for hobby work then you decide if it is worth the money for you.
If you search the internet (not youtube) for "Deckel SO operating instructions" you will find a manual about the grinder including instructions to grind a few types of D-bits. Also here you will probably have to read it several times because it contains sufficient information but it is not explained in the clearest way. So take your time. The two best, most complete sources are the tool and die guy and the operational manual.
Thanks rol eic, I did download the Deckel manuals and watched all the tool and die guy videos when they were up before I bought the grinder. Not sure how I feel about paying for access to vidoes. Thanks for watching and commenting.
So much learning. I look to distill principles of operation from the videos I watch and yours are some of if not the best for it. I realize it takes much time and effort to make these institutional videos and I sincerely thank you for them.
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
ROBRENZ you are welcome. I meant to say instructional videos but i think you got my meaning. 🙄
Even after 5 years I still come to your old videos for a good time.
Such great content.
What can I say....the man is a perfectionist and proves that what he subscribes to is valid and not just a fancy shiny bit for the sake of it.
I think I'm leaning to getting one of these again as I had a Deckel before and didn't use it so sold it to someone who needed it more......suddenly I've developed a new must have feeling for one of these to make tools better........I blame Stefan for that.
Edit.......I'm building one.
In essence you've taken a piece of Chinese mis-manufactured machinery,and transformed it into a true Deckel clone. Thank you for the many inspirational ideas over the many videos you've produced
I like the way that you explain the "why's" as well as the "how's". Fascinating and instructive, and with some excellent close-up footage too. Thanks.
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
Dont stop making these videos, makes me realize how slothful minded I am ! Your improvement is probably better than the original deckle grinder
I'm glad I'm not the only one who realises how little I know when I watch these videos. I always learn so much when I watch them, I just hope some of it soaks in.
Always truly great videos.
@@niallmartin4098 that's how I learn. Osmosis theory.
Wheel hubs: what's your secret?
I bought a Shars universal etc just like yours two years ago but I don't use it much because whatever wheel is mounted, the job I need to do requires a different wheel. I tried to get more hubs but drew a blank. Shars phone order line knows only catalog numbers and tech support could barely be convinced there was a need for more than one wheel hub per machine. We consulted the IPD in the manual but the drawings were tiny and the parts descriptions vague. I annoyed them off and on for a couple weeks, tried to track down the supplier etc but no joy. I worked up drawings gathered materials etc but other necessities have relegated the actual machine work to "round tuit" status.
The burning question is ordering information: what's the part number and part designation for those hubs?
Wonderful walk through gold-plating your grinder. I agree, the Shars D grinder is a great place to start. A little rework and tune up, enhancements for range, motion, and accuracy would convert an indifferent import to a fine precision machine tool, I especially liked your clever wrinkles on the extended range pivot shaft. Naturally, I got Monday morning quarterback alternatives: the dust pick-up with a Noga-like articulation would be handier to position and tweak than that Lok-Line. You haven't yet mentioned the lathe tool attachment. It needs serious improvements for the vise.
I've imagined a little mag chuck for cup grinding small flats, a motorized head with extends tail center, etc all more mental exercise than serious proposal. There would be little practical need for such embellishments and I doubt if building in the necessary rigidity and repeatability would be possible without making something awkward and clunky.
Wonderful trade we serve in our different capacities.
There is no Shars number for the wheel hubs. I will check on Monday with the right guy to talk to at Shars to get some.
I to have too many Ideas for attachments.
ROBRENZ Yeah, cool. Often the solution to a problem is knowing who to call. Please let me know who at Shars to contact. OperaBass at aol dot com
hi Forrest here the info
Part # for101-1008
Price $22.00 per set
Avil: Apri
It's beautiful to see a lifetime of high level machining expressed through some of the simplest mechanical device principles
I will never come close to this level of work but find it fascinating to watch. Thank you for sharing your great skill.
I don't think I commented when I originally watched this. I shall watch it again and compare notes with Stefan's rebuild. It's great to have these different perspectives on this versatile machine. I'm developing a whole new appreciation for grinding as a process.
A excellent modification. The precision of your finished shafting and controls exceeds most high-end machines.Of course now I have to add my grinder to the ever growing list of things to do. Thank you for the inspiration.
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
I keep coming back to your content rich videos. Every time I look at one again I pick up more great stuff. Thanks so much for these videos!
You are a national treasure. Whether I buy and modify a grinder is secondary to learning how you approach projects and, obviously, maintain such high standards. You’re saving me years of mistakes. Thank you.
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Even though this video is now over 2 years old, I just couldn’t get it out of my head. Ordered one yesterday and plan to make the Mods. Thanks Robin.
Same here!
I'm really happy to see you produce more content. This level of detail and sharing your knowledge about specifics and applied metrology is hard to come by anywhere else. Thank you!
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
Ignore this guy before me. Love the detail, hung on every word, don't change a thing.
Yup.
Rob, I'm very interested in how you think your way through problems. In my view, that's one of the most valuable aspects of your channel. Please don't trim too much! Yes, brevity is the soul of wit, efficiency with words, all that stuff, but... don't skip any of the good stuff! I think your balance is about right most of the time.
Great mod. Really well thought out. I'm particularly impressed with the inclusion of the thrust bearings. I've used the same approach on my lathe leadscrews.
It has been some time ago since I have seen this one but today I am coming back here in my binge watching session to get some inspiration for upgrading/servicing the one I just bought.
Very funny to see that Stefan just released a series referring to him modifying his machine using your input. So fun to hear you bought this because of Stefan showing his 😁
Hmm... I may have to watch this one again. I have been cleaning mine (2nd hand) with the video on the big screen but I already have a few things that need to be done. The dove tails and the lamp are just two. While cleaning I discovered the pains dissolves in the cleaning alcohol that I used to get the glued up grease off so I might even decide to take the whole thing apart and give it a new paint job.
Excellent video, thank you. I very much appreciate seeing your thought process, design and implementation on the improvements you have made. I have thought about getting the Shars machine myself.
Every time i watch your videos, I learn something new.I'd never heard of Moglice before. I could have used this stuff many times in the past for tightening up slip surfaces. Your broad knowledge, techniques and finesse are truly a gift to anyone watching your videos.
Thank you for figuring out the spelling! This seems to be the US importers website: www.moglice.com/moglice.html
That is Devitt Machinery who I used.
Your attention to detail is second to none, thank you very much for taking the time to put together this video.
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
Thank you!
I am of the same mind that our tools/ equipment should serve us and not vice versa.
I'm glad for you that you've got enough machinery that you can modify stuff to suit your needs.
Clever mod! Love it! :)
I can say that I think I've watched most of your videos, as well as rewatching several of them. I'm only a hobby metal worker and most of what you cover goes over my head. But you give me topics of study that I didn't even know I was ignorant of. I'm extremely pleased that Stefan mentioned you so many times. I hear you're on instagram and share a lot of stuff there too. I'm just not to be trusted with the time suck that the site can be. Thanks for the content.
A privilege to watch you work, sir.
I love your videos. I got into machining videos with Clickspring, then AvE sent me over to you and the 47 min on this one just flew by. I had a chance to buy an entire tool makers shop when he passed away for $12,000. I kick myself everyday for not having 5 figures laying around. Please keep doing what you're doing. When I do finally get a shop going, you'll continue to be my professor for years. Thank you.
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
Bravo Robin, a vid from you is almost always a journey from the realm of everyday tolerances to that other world of high stiffness and high precision. The methods and materials to achieve these results makes your channel a reference work of incomparable value. I predict that your subscriptions will start to grow exponentially as you make more videos. Thanks for the effort and the knowledge that you are bringing to us.
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Awesome video! You made my Sunday morning coffee very enjoyable. Thanks for diving into your improvements this is a huge help to get my Shars grinder running better and hone some new techniques. So glad master tool makers like your self are taking the time to spread the knowledge around. It will pay off in the long run for things made in the USA and not just subbed out and screwed together in the USA.
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Very good and delicately modified. I also have same tool grinder but never had thought to improve its accuracy.
I completely understand why someone like you Robin would make this choice. You have the ability to completely tear down and make this machine immaculate. I think you gave a very fair review of this unit and I will always respect your opinion
Awesome video Robyn. I'm blown away with how you can see the potential problems and conceive and produce incredibly well thought out solutions with such high quality. Cheers!
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
Price point, and sales numbers, that is what drives manufacturers. Manufacturers know that to achieve the precision that Rob is looking for, the price point would be very high, and sales would be very low. That is why most of the affordable machine tools require some "improving" after purchase. A Great video on achieving increased precision and performance parameters. I now have a new "tool" to use, as I had never heard of Moglice. Thanks Rob!
I'm not a machinist but thoroughly enjoy listening and watching you complete your projects. Great video and Thank You.
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Hi Robin I’m new too your channel, very informative content an interesting too watch and learn from, you been in this trade for 51 to 52 years, very experienced and heaps of tips and tricks. Thank you for sharing 👍👍👍
Im glad you showed the moglice process Ive used it for years on small jobs despite people always thinking its for large jobs only as always very well done Sir
Dave Hetrick
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I'm new to your channel and this is a very informative, high quality video. Your insights into machine design and execution are really enlightening. I'm looking forward to watching many more of them. I wish this machine and your "fixes" had been available in 1978 when I decided to build my QUORN. I learned A LOT but I think I would have been time an money ahead with this approach.
Really nice work Robin! I understand your toolmaker logic and refined sense of accuracy and quality - I get a real buzz out of hearing your logic and watching you taking the time to do things properly. You now have several improvements over the original Deckel. Thanks for sharing. Cliff
Thanks Cliff and thanks for watching and commenting.
I'm no machinist, but this is one of my favorite channels. I like to follow your problem solvings and the attention to detail. And the fact that you don't go for the off the shelf high dollar solution, but get something reasonable and make it do with some elbow grease and creative thinking.
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Dear robin, i used to be all about the 5thau tolerance, until i met you.
Thanks for being so cool!
I'm always impressed by your relentless attention to detail. Thanks so much for sharing your trove of knowledge... your videos are very inspirational to me, and I suspect to others as well. Please keep them coming.
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Excellent video Robin. Building a low cost import kit up to a serious high standard is as satisfying as scratch building your own tools. Very well done.
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Once again Robin you never cease to amaze with your depth of knowledge...
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Amazing, amazing workmanship. I have learned at lot of techniques and tricks that I had no idea about. One could say that there is a fair bit of overengineering in it, but if the author had not taken that route, he wouldn't taught others so much.
The only mini bit of info that I can add is, when you have the issue of the hex on a socket bolt being too big, then can use off the shelf reduced height heads or countersunk bolts.
Man, that is incredible! Your attention to detail is amazing Robin, thank you. I deal in parts that weigh many tons that need to be within a couple thou. You, Tom, and Stephan make me feel like a timber framer. Much enjoyed! Thanks again, Will
Thanks and thanks for watching and commenting.
Bought the same machine and noted most of the same issues you alluded to. Thanks for for some great information and rework ideas. Keep up the great videos.
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From one artisan to another...I like your work.
Thank you very much!
Great idea using the bandsaw to put the grooves in the lap. I've stored that one away in the "must try" file.
Thanks and compliments. I'm deeply impressed once more by the amount of ideas and experience you put into Your videos. What ever you explain or demonstrate can be understood easily. And whenever I feel smart because I think I understood, You take another step of thinking ahead like with making the shaft detachable.
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Doesn't seem to matter what the project is Robin, each video is a masterclass in clear thought and deliberate problem solving. I always learn a ton. Excited to see more Mitsui content in the future!
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Great video robin. I'm starting in the tool and die shop at work on Monday and I got the job mostly based on things I learned watching videos from guys like you, Tom, an Stefan.
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Thanks for sharing, as always I'm blown away by the level of detail you go to
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Got to love those Chinese kits, 'some assembly and rebuild required' to get them working good and proper. Get ideas and tips as always please keep up the good work!
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Your level of creativity boggles the mind ,excellent job
Thanks Tim and thanks for watching and commenting.
Now I want one of them ! Great improvements, when you drilled a hole through the screw reminds me of the story of the german drill bit story. When we sent them the smallest drill bit we could make and they "the Germans " drilled a hole through it . Lol
Absolutely astounding. I thought for sure at 45:00 you were building a hookah pipe extension, but discovered it was a grind extractor. Your attention to detail is truly inspiring. Thanks you Robin. Considering your inspiration for buying this in the first place, your comment 46:47 "man that's tight" should be revised to be "das est good en tight, no more hot dog in zie hallway."
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I really like your take on making laps, it has come in real handy for me as I’ve just started getting into it.
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Thanks for walking us through your thought process!
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Loved the lapping, the use of the clamp to add pressure, what a cool idea.
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just chanced upon your channel, kept watching a lot of the videos you have put out, they are all very interesting and educational. in doing so i have lost most of my sunday... no regrets though! great stuff. thank you.
I’ve been eyeing this universal grinder for a bit myself. When I saw your recent video on Instagram and entered in the tool giveaway it encouraged me to look back into it again. I should have known yours wasn’t an off the shelf performer! LOL
Nice mods and fun video.
I learn something new every time I watch your videos. Thanks for your efforts.
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As usual your work is above and beyond the normal.... keep up the great work. and thank you...
finding your channel was a discovery and really inspiring. Those are some very good modifications
Your attention to detail is inspiring.
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Watching this helped me learn more about my (very different) universal grinder. Thanks!
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I like how you think outside the box to come up with a better setup!
Wonderful series, can't wait for the upcoming videos. I purchased a grinder last month and it had problems with the motor. It didn't come with the other attachments. I returned it. Should have purchased the SHARS version. It's the best buy out there for a knock off. Plan on placing my order at SHARS this month. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
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Robin, thanks for the detailed breakdown. It was super helpful.
As usual a very interesting video. I really enjoy you vocalizing your thought processes. I lets us beginners know what kind of things you are considering. Sometimes, I am really surprised with the things you are concerned about. This not to say that they aren't important, only that they had never occurred to me.
I like the little preload clamp screw to improve the clamping action of the main screw, I've never seen that before. Very cool
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Nice Robin, those CBN tool bits are amazing. All the details on the mechanical elements, lines, and adhesives good stuff.
Thanks Bill and thanks for watching and commenting.
Super useful video Robin! I got one of these a few months back and am really enjoyed learning more about it from your video :) I really liked the lapping bit too. It's so hard to find practical information about lapping and the concept of making a purpose-built lap out of a slug of scrap aluminum is fabulous, I'm definitely going to try that out :)
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Amazing ingenuity and attention to detail Rob!.. Your videos are most enjoyable, mesmerizing even. Thanks!
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Great content Robin, many thanks. Attention to detail sums it up well. I'm picking up some good tips on parts suppliers for bearings, handles etc. too.
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That is really good Rob. With the Quorn I am working on I have some similar ideas, shaft scrapers, adjustable holders for vac etc. I think I will utilise 3d printing. I want to experiment with flexible filament for the scrapers.
FYI Home Shop Machinist Project book 8 has some interesting mods. Lapped Air bearing collect spindle being one.
I will be referring to your work as I go on with my mods. One useful item the Quorn has that is absent from this design is the setting pin facility in the work holding head. Mine wasn't done so it was a bit of a head scratcher. I ended up buying an ER32 / D1-4 collect chuck for my lathe, problem solved.
A few more errors to solve and I will make the tools for my first go at cutting worm gears.
Very interesting the quick aluminum lap and the bolt for adjusting the action on the clamp, always learning a lot from your videos! Keep it up!!
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Just discovered your channel. Extremely good video. Your experience is a delight to absorb.
ok robin, I m relaxed, popcorn check, wood stove burning, check
all ready for a second modifications video on the deckel clone.
I upgraded the shaft on mine with drill rod, and replaced the godawful plastic bushings with bronze. It never occurred to me to change the rotation stop but seeing how your design improves everything I'm putting that on The List.
That Moglice bushing trick is pretty slick (pun intended). I have a number of things that will benefit from that!
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Used to use one at work for many sharpening tasks wish I still had access to sharpen all my cutters& bits a great piece of equipment for all sharpening needs
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Go big or go home. Oh wait you are home. I hope the Manufacturer takes notes on this upgrade. Nice work!
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I feel like this channel is more for real machinists. At least well over my head. It’s obvious from the other channels (especially Stefan) that Robin is held in high regard among his peers. That said, I’m still watching. I especially like the videos of upgrading chinesium “kits” even if I don’t always understand. Keep the content coming brother.
Yeah, when you get positive comments from Stefan Gottswinter, This Old Tony and Tom from Oxtoolco, you are in a class of your own. It's good to know the "Best" feel as I do about Robin's efforts. My only problem is now I have another tool on my "must have", list. Thanks, Robin.
Enjoyed watching your video and no doubt your mods have improved the machine however, I have owned one of these machine now for about 4 years and have found that it works fine as it is taking into account it's design limitations.
Nice work, you're attention to detail always amazes me. 😊
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I enjoyed the video. You’ve inspired me to get out the Gorton grinder I bought a few years ago and do some experimentation. Thank you!
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Robin, your video solved a problem I have been trying to solve., MOGLICE was the part that is going to save me a fortune in time and money. THANK YO VERY MUCH for sharing. I WILL be using it in the future along with epoxy granite. Cannot truly say Thank You enough for what this will allow me to do....... un-calculatable value to me..
Glad to help
Great engineering and implementation! I've had same SHARS grinder for about a year. Also went back to the for extra wheel hubs and all super abrasive wheels. Also added a set of 5C square collets ... Very handy. Haven't used all the accessories yet but found the grinder useful right out of the box for many tasks. Eagerly following your journey as this machine is a great foundation for many grinding tasks. Thanks again guys for your time (considerable), experiences and knowledge (also considerable). Like your other videos, this opens up a new scope and breadth in the small shop. M'GILLIKEYR
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Great job, I have the same grinder, this gives me some ideas. thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
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You, Sir, are a master craftsman. Thanks for sharing.
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Can't wait- coffee is ready settling for a learning experience.
No surprise you nailed it. What cool upgrades. Interested in the chemicals you used for the bore. Always nice to see what you and Stefan can do to take something common and make it excellent.
_Dan_
www.moglice.com/ is the site of the maker of the epoxy material (moglice) he used.
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Wow, very nice. I know those Deckel single lip grinders are not cheap, mostly because they did such a nice job on their machines. This looks like a great substitute at a fraction of a used Deckel....I really enjoy seeing how you think things through, and how you modify as you go along. Great solution how you tapped that screw for the M4 a small wrench could be used...Nice!
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Robin
Thank you so much for your time. As someone does said the why's as well as the how's was really interesting.
Tks again Will
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Wow...amazing machine touch ups! I get the feeling that this isn’t your first metal shop project.
Wow. Like many of your videos I'm going to have to watch it a couple of times. Each time I get a little more out of them.
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