Thank you Stefan:We have this machine in our college workshop. I assign three grinding projects to my students currently. They make an engraving tool for the milling machine, a 60 degree threading tool for the lathe, and a .125 inch wide parting tool also for the lathe. I intend to give them more assignments now that you have released this video which will be used as an introduction to this amazing tool. By having the students make the tools they were breaking the most , we have saved hundreds of dollars per year on expensive cutters and the students pick up a very valuable skill which will serve them well for their entire machining career.
I always enjoy / appreciate these sorts of videos. 1000 years in the future this is the video that will be playing in a loop next to a SLC in a glass box at the exhibit. Have you done one of these for your engraver? You really should.
I agree with you Tony. The information hear is priceless. And I have to say it is because of channel's like yours and Stefan that I'm now setting up my own hobby machine work shop 👍thanks mate
Thank you for your audio explanations. So many RUclips video authors coward out and don't say anything but rely only on visual text or use a robotic text to speech synthesizer. Even though English is obviously not your native language, you do an excellent job and your effort is appreciated.
I have had the Shars version of this machine for over a year sitting idle due to a combination of my on going machine shop projects, coupled with the useless instructions that came with the machine. You have single handedley filled a huge void to those (myself included) needing some basic instruction on the operation of these machines. I sharpened two end mills last night love the possibilities. No turning back now. Thank you very much, Steve
Some years later, I actually bought one! Now this video makes a lot more sense, has helped me immensely. I never got the hang of hand-grinding lathe tools, and the prospect of sharpening end mills, and making my own single-lip cutters is very exciting. Thanks Stefan! Fyi, mine is a UTG-U2 of Chinese origin, purchased new in the UK. I can't find a cheap source for Deckel collets though, some cheap Chinese collets out there but shipping cost is horrendous. Fortunately, I have an ER11 chuck on a straight 8mm shank I can use... Might make my own custom collets, now I can make the cutter for the buttress thread...
Thank you Stephan...........you taught me more in this video than ANY books I have read. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks again. David
Great video Stephan - I bought one of these grinders after watching it. Like yours, mine came with the attachment for grinding the flutes on end mills. I was aware of your comment that this was a useless attachment but tried it anyway. It worked really well for me grinding the flutes on a 12mm and a 16mm end mill. In fact I was amazed at how effective it was. Haven't yet tried it on smaller end mills though.
Helpful video. I have the PP-U3 which is very similar. I would also advocate wearing a particulate mask to protect against silica inhalation and ear plugs too for the high pitched whistle of the wheel.. One the grinder is set for a job, take a photo of the settings for the next batch before moving on to a different job.
Yes, a dustmask is a very good idea, and I agree on the ear plug - I wear them in the shop more and more, also when I run the mill for a long time. I generaly dont give out a PSA for safety equipment, that is up to everybody himself. And I dont get sued ;)
Hi Stefan, I know it's a while since you produced this video but thanks. I've just purchased one from a UK supplier and as you say, the instruction 'pamphlet' is useless. Doesn't even explain how to take the wheels off. 45 minutes spent watching your video is a great help...........I shall go and practice!!!!! Thank you.
Stefan, It is recommended that you put a clearance angle in where you need to go at least 5 - 7 degree above horizontal when you grind the face of the cutter, without it you don't have a real cutter clearance angle (Freiwinkel of 5-7 degree for Metal Cutting Tools). 35 years ago I had to teach Toolmaker Apprentices how to use this Single Lip Cutter Grinder. Today most of the new generation of Machinists don't even know that this special profile cutter exist. You can actually grind a spherical ball shape onto the cutter. With this Grinder you can produce an unlimited variety of Milling Cutters. It is sad that many Teachers today don't know the capabilities of this Cutter Grinder. I know you explain it to best to your knowledge, so please don't be offended by my comment. Thank you,
Just purchased one of these from Warco. Loving it. Sharpened loads of drills and end mills. Yes its expensive but i've saved at least £200 already. Nice video Stefan. Thanks.
Really informative video about the actual capabilities of these Deckel clones Stefan. I've read a few bits of misinformation about them that there really only useful for those single lip cutting tools. These off shore copy's still aren't exactly cheap, but the last price I saw for a new Deckel grinder of this type was a bit over $10,000. Even at $1,000 for one of these clones they can obviously save enough money to pay for themselves over some time.
10k is about right for a new single lip cutter grinder. There are still a few manufacturers that build the original Deckel or a variant of it in germany - Michael Deckel and Spinner to name two...
great overview steffen, I have one but with the simplified workhead, I've made a dividing head for it but keeping my eyes open in case one ever comes up....
After seeing this D bit grinding application I purchased an angular adjustable tool holder head and plan to add a mounting bar on my small ma ual surface grinder. Thank you.
It is a very useful machine and makes a good job of sharpening cutters. I have attachments for mine to also sharpen drills and shaping and sharpening lathe tools. With an embedded diamond cup wheel I can accurately sharpen solid carbide cutters.
Thank you for the video, Stefan. You have a nice, neat shop and you know your stuff. If I could only recommend that you get a better microphone so we can hear you better.
Comprehensive and well explained. For sharpening single lip engraving cutters though, I use a home made cutter grinder that has a, swash plate mechanism for relieving.
In my watchmaking school we have about 6 of these machines, they get a lot of use. Best machine, after this video I won’t be looking fo a Deckel just pick up the Chinese version.
Nice video on the grinder. I think you can easily add another very usefull use: resharp the lateral flutes of the endmills. Make a new siple head with a homemade air bearing to run a straight shank collet chuck by hand and a stand for the flutes.
I just checked out a used Deckel S0 grinder, a 1990s model, that the seller listed for $6700 US. Depending what attachments come with it it could be a great deal or not. The machine looked unused. So, yes, the Deckel machines are expensive new or used. I have wondered about the Deckel grinders: about how they work, their utility and convenience to use. Thanks for the video!
Great video Stefan I have been waiting for years for someone to do a video on these Chinese tool grinders. I think I might go ahead and buy one I could use one in my shop. Thanks Loren.
Not nearly as complex as my Spiromatic drill bit grinder but certainly far more useful. Someday I hope to have a full blown tool and cutter grinder in my shop. I mainly want one for sharpening and doing forms on the big cutters for my horizontal mill.
I just found a deckle grinder that's brand new is only been used one time on Craigslist for $2,200 this thing is so shiny and clean I actually believe the guy that it's never been used
I have had a want for one of these for years , as well as a 3D pantograph the size of a Bridgeport milling machine. In tech school we had both and both had stenciled (Property of US Navy) on them. I had figured in a few years I would have ran across these two machines and traded for them , but still have not found either one for a trade. I have seen this grinder on Amazon for around $600 but I had much rather do some sort of trading for a used one😉👍
Thanks for covering this grinder Stefan, it's been on my wish list for a while, but with a T&C grinder and a Darex E90 endmill sharpener already, obviously isn't as urgent as it would otherwise be. One flaw I've noticed with the grinder is what looks like no adjustment on the angle of the diamond dresser. This will mean the diamond will become dull instead of being able to be rotated to a fresh sharp face each dressing. i think that would be a good mod to consider as it will make a significant difference to both the wheel dressing and the life of the diamond.
Excellent again, Stefan. It's full, complete and not jquite exhaustive, And it's far more informative than those now on RUclips in Chinese and a few shot off-hand in noisey settings without proper narration. A clone of that very grinder just fell in my lap. I've never used one before so I'm still exploring its possibilities. It came with the flute grinding attachment, the lathe tool goodie, and the drill grinding jig but with 5C collets. I still sharpen drills free hand but as I age, I may have to resort to gadgets so I'm going to hang on to the attachments. My only complai7nt is the M8 hub extraction screw bruised the M6 taller hole in the spindle. There gotta be a better way. Have you posted key words like "universal tool grinder" etc to aid RUclips searches? I'm linking this video to a the people seeking advise. Expect more questions.
STEFAN MAKE ANOTHER VIDEO ON THE GRINDER. Hey after watching this video I purchased one from shars and it works very well. There's nothing worse than wrecking an endmill in the first five seconds of use makes me sick! I had saved my new ones i wrecked in a jar never thinking i would ever do anything with them but I was able to save every one of them awsome. They are all razor sharp also sharpened some lathe tooling very well. My machine seems very well made except the knobs handles and hardware I will add some kind of shop vac attachment very dusty bad to breath.
That's the one machine I have wanted to see. Thanks. I hope I need one. I already have the complete set of collets that came with my FP-3. Thanks for the endmill relief idea. I was just on ebay looking for long small endmills, and thinking bad things. I'm getting ready to mill long slots through 2 inch aluminum, and I'm trying to figure out how to do it.
Extremely helpful video. I have been buying new drills and end mills but I've saved the old ones and would like to put them to use. Also I suspect that with the right grinding cup it might be possible to sharpen gear cutters, which I have zillions of.
Nice video and something are more claer to me. Since a couple of months I have bought the Chinese version, and it takes a lot time to grind a drill-bit whit all the correct angles. I shall used it also for lathe-tools for threating and belt-polies. Thanks for this interesting video.
It is HBM U3 grinder with C5 collets, who is in fact a copy the Deckel single lip cutter grinder. Remark; over the world different version are existhing.
i grind drill bits from 4mm to 29.5 mm using the 5c collets, i have full collet set but actually only 12mm is required for most larger drills, the secret is in the settings , top knuckle 60-70 degrees, bottom knuckle 5 degrees, for 4 flutes just change bottom knuckle to 15-20 degrees, this gives about 118 degreee drill, very sharp cuts well, so no need for drill acccessory , which i have, i also found the 5c square collet 12mm very useful in sharpening hss 12mm lathe tools, thus doing away with the lathe tool accessory which i have, still trying to grind the 2 and 4 flute endmills, but please note that suggested is a top knuckle of 85 degrees and a bottom knuckle of -5 degrees, but - 5 does not exist on the bottom knuckle scale, so you must judge the right amount left of zero, all a bit trial and error with this machine, but as stefan says i would not be without it, nice and heavy, little vibration , uses several types of wheel and nice and quiet.
This may seem silly but it would be interesting to see a before & after cutting on your sharpened end mill. Chipped, broken, blued bits are easy to tell that they are bad. It's those cutter that ware VERY slowly that are tough. For myself (hobby machinist) it's when the cutting action just doesn't seem right cutting. Might make a nice RUclips video. No one has covered that subject, on recognizing a dull cutter.
Excellent, excellent video! Thanks for responding to requests. I learned more watching this than countless hours of web surfing & those silent Charlie Chaplin movies from the factories that make them. Couple questions:- how do you safely cut carbide shanks to length in home shop when you make your own tooling from blanks? - I would have thought the drill re-sharpening & faceting would be a very useful function of machine. You mentioned a pain to set up - do you mean limitation of the machine itself or those particular accessories they provide? Maybe something better you could redesign? I saw one accessory that looked like a V-groove/clamp, presumably for longer/bigger drills? But could you hold smaller size drills in the stock collets?
Dear Stefan, I think you are the only one that can help me that I know have huge knowledge. Following you I bought a beautiful toll cut grinder, made in Italy but I don’t know the name. Now My problem is that I can configure out what kind of collet need, is not 5c or U2 or any other that I know, I surf internet but there is an ocean, difficult, please those are the dimensions may you know what kind of collet are thread look 25 mm - 1 mm pitch a Length 121 - cone od 32.54 - I can’t find 😢, please try to help me
Hmmm. A very interesting machine. The Proxxon endmills I use cost 75$ for a set of 3 -- 1, 2, and 3 mm. They plunge. Tiny. I seldom plunge but when I need precisely spaced starter holes I do. I will study this video, my brand-new set of slot drills and the web site and see what I can do. FWIW, there are T&DG kits available in the UK including the Chadwick Quorn. A tough machining proposition. Cheaper than a Deckel for sure but a lot of work.
Very interesting. I have never heard an actual estimate before; I have read people who spent a year on it. Can you tell me what the minimum center height I would need to make it?
Sharpening drill bits - chisel point and brad point? A demo would be nice on this very useful function, although with steady hands, I can get reasonable results on an ordinary grinding wheel. I use a white aluminium oxide wheel for drill bits. I was wondering: If you made a threaded insert for the main head and used a thin diamond blade on edge, could you not cut the back surface of the flutes of end mills? The thread would need to match the pitch of the spirals, that's all! {Tongue in cheek - It can't be that simple though}. If this did work, instead of relieving your end mills to cut deeper slots, you could extend the cutter up the plain shaft. That would extend the life of cutters a little.
Really great detailed video! I recently purchased one of these and I love it. I do have one complaint, however. It seems that the wheel rotation is actually opposite of what it should be. When sharpening isn't the best practice is to be moving the abrasive into the cutting edge, not away from it? I did a set up using the inner part of the grinding wheel (it's harder to do; a mirror helps) but the results seemed better.
You should wear a dust mask and hearing protection when using any grinder. I have tinnitus (ringing in the ears) caused by machine noise damaging the nerves in the inner ear. It also causes vertigo. It's awful. I have to bring ear plugs with me if I go out to a movie or play or anywhere there could be loud noise. I wish that I had listened to people when I was younger. Loud noises don't just leave you a little deaf. Thanks for posting the video it was very informative and concise.
Agree on both! I am getting better at wearing ear protection when running machines, and I wear it all the time with the real loud powertools like the angle grinder or the circular saw...But I need to get more used to a duskmask.
Stefan Gotteswinter It's great to know that you are taking precautions to protect your health. I'm 53 years old but I have some illnesses of a seventy year old. It cut short my career. Look out for machines that make a rhythmic sound. It's a good idea to have your hearing tested so that you will know how well you are doing. You will be able to compare the results to the results of future tests to see if you have damaged your hearing.
I get a yearly healthcheck at work anyway on lung, blood, hearing, eyes and so on and I am quite glad for that (yeah I know it is in the interest of the company, not for me... ;) )
Barry Manilowa If you damage the inner ear and inhale diamond dust, it doesn't matter what healthcare system you are in. The damage is done and it's irreversible. My mother was Canadian. I watched as they let two of my aunts die because they were denied care by the system. A system that they paid for all their lives turned its back on them. We are friends with a ear nose throat surgeon in Frankfurt and there are plenty of problems in Germany's healthcare system.
Tell me about hearing loss our shop at the local iron works 50 years ago was in the power house 🏡 next to the intake for the turbine blowers for the blast furnaces( base exchange units ) now I have tinnitus 90% loss and have to lip read , I cannot get on with hearing aids so use what I learn in the turbine hall lip read ( note it's good for looking in on other people's conversations🙈 As for carbide dust resperators are a must no question Note in those days long ago health and safety did not exist Good vidieo as is your normal production concise and to the point I did have one but it was very poor so I made a quorn which works for me Stuart
Thank you! I very badly want a cutter grinder but haven't had the exposure to them to know what kind, and its good to know the cheap knock off is still a good tool. I was disappointed though when you said the helical grinding attachment was useless as I was waiting for you to say something about that the whole video. Is it that it is not rigid enough to grind new flutes in a carbide blank or is really that heavy an operation just to touch up the edges on a dull end mill?
I find your videos very interesting and informative . Do you have details of the lathe tool accessory for the Deckel SO with maybe photos and dimensios as I would like to make one. If you have a video on that accessory it would be great.
many sharpening fixtures for end mills have some way to sharpen the length of the cutting edge on the flute. I gather that you feel that to be rather unnecessary and by shortening the end mill by some amount you avoid needing to sharpen any flutes. Have you ever sharpened any flutes and does an end mill with resharpened flutes ever produce as good a surface? (using the end mill at full length for a finishing cut)
I‘m always wondering if the original is called SO or S0 ("Es Oh" vs. "Es-Null"). Looking at the document it seems to be the latter, which would also follow their naming convention of other Deckel machines (G1L, FP2, etc.). I usually call it "Es-Null", but that‘s pure guessing. Frank
Wow, thankyou for this video. I have one of these and this was very helpful. Do you know if the bottom bar is stainless steel? I always worry that mine will rust. I use a squirt bottle to cool things down when I am grinding. Is the moly dry lube the same thing as molibdenum grease? I suspect not!
My SHARS clone doesn't have a RED DOT or any other identifier that I can find. Where do I set the INDEX rotation when using the setting finger to align the flat on the DBit?
Stefan is right the Deckel used ones are completely overpriced and do not always have the milling attachment with them...there are more worn out in the market than not worn out ones and still they cost a fortune because if someone don't have a good look that the ways are protected by putting some clothes on it when not using or a plastic bag over the arm these ways are quite small and if they get dust all the time they are worn out in a short time noatter if it's Deckel or china the china clones are quite good I prefer building a diy one because I got the arm for nearly nothin brand new 😊
So Stefan: I found one of these which I acquired for $200. Low mileage with attachments. How lucky is that? Now I only need to get it into the basement. Can I count on you for help?
Hi, Amigo I just bought a tool grinder like that and I am told it's has U2 collets what can you tell me about this type of collets, or do you know any web page that can tell me more about them, as f.ex. is it a collet who have more than one name. thanks for sharing all these videoes and your expertice it is much appreciated
Nice job, Does the clearance angle equal the relief angle and rake angle.? Do you grind that separately? I have an identical Yellow universal mill. Actually after buying the newer Deckel manual On Ebay I see it essentially says for my engraving half lip pointed conical cutters the horizontal angle gives you 1/2 tip angle and the vertical tilt ~20 degrees gives that beautiful relief lip on the cutter face. Your video inspired me I hope to make one for sharpening engraver bits. Schones Wochenende! Vielen Danks Patrick:)
Question - can you dress your diamond wheels with the diamond dressing stone? It sounds like a bad idea but if you can't then that means you can never true your wheel which doesn't make sense.... I'm assuming you can, as the diamond wheels aren't solid diamond but diamond powder embedded in a medium of some sort. Your insight would be greatly appreciated!
The perfect bench for a grinder. A hospital hyper-al isolation station. A plexiglas shield and air re-circulation that captures all free air over the table and forces it through a 99% particle filter.
Admittedly. But considering your perfectionism, precision and eye for details... You could always give the hyper-al station a matching paint job! I could never be a production machinist. I'm a clean fanatic. I'd be breaking off in the middle of an operation to vacuum and sweep the floors. BTW, as for the video. Like always, fascinating watching you work. I'd really like to see you do another that goes into details of all the possible geometric variations of the grinder and how they could be applied.
stefan - i acquired a shars clone recently. a noticeable difference on my clone compared to the deckel is the vernier for the radius offset. Mine is calibrated in 1/4" major increments and .050" minor increments. i am probably going to stick an indicator on the side of the divider head to measure the radius offset. what are you using to measure radius offset? thanks for all the informative videos and advice. i'm a hobbyist with a PM932 mill, a Covel #15 surface grinder, a South Bend SB1001 lathe, and a bunch of metrology. phil
What do you call the aluminum oxide wheel with the resin bond on the outer layer that you show 18 minutes in? I am trying to order one but don't know what its called.
Perhaps you already answered this question, but I didn't find it in the comments. Where do you get the hubs and what kind are they? Also where do you get the hub wrench? I just picked up a 5c model and having separate hubs is only rational.
Stefan, have you actually removed the pages with your d-bit grinder modifications from your website? The URLs seems to lead nowhere right now. I'm receiving my d-bit this week (german/chineese Optimum GH 20T) and was hoping so much to follow your modifications to tune it up....
Thanks for the video Stefan! My T&C grinder is a Grizzly and very much like yours. I enjoyed the video and give you a plus for posting. I have one question. How did you determine the center for the hole/pin you placed in the (z) axis? Great video - thanks for posting. Bob
Yes, works well, but holding normal twist drills in the collets is not very good, they either stick out very far or you have to clamp on the flutes wich works with this style of collet not very well.
ER-Collets for example work quite well, REGO-FIX mentions in their technical documents that you can clamp on the flutes of a drill. (My experience confirmes this, I like to hold drills very short on the mill using er-collets)
With some modifications on the drillgrinding tool I am very satisfied with the results of 4- and 6 facet grinding of the drill bits. On my channel is has already 2 video's only about grinding drill bits. Check also my documentation. Next year I hope that the quick release clamp for the V-bar will be ready. I don't like Hss, Hss-Co- and carbide drills are clamped in hardened steel collects.
do you have any good adresses where to get the smaller used machines like grinders and hobby sized lathes in germany and near the netherlands ? HBM machines in the netherlands sell the machine new for around 1000 euro
So do the diamond wheels not need dressing? If so how is the best way to dress them? Asking for a friend that totally definitely didn't ruin a diamond wheel today slamming it into carbide... :l Cheers for this video, I'm decided, I need to get myself one of these machines, even if only to regrind the poor end mills I occasionally accidentally smash all the corners off :(
In normal use they dont need to be dressed. When they get out of shape (by heavy use or some mishapp ;) ) they can be dressed by cylindrical grinding with a silicone carbide grinding wheel. In the most simple way, that would be a diegrinder with green SiC wheel against the diamond wheel. After Regrinding the wheel to shape, the diamond needs to be exposed from the resin bound with a special sharpening stone (Those are rather Cheap)
Stefan Gotteswinter Ooh, there go my slideways 😉 Considering how cheap the Chinese diamond wheels are, I might consider replacing it instead, thanks for the info though, I've always wondered how to do it 😊
Dear "chris0tube", you are not educated enough, that's why you can't see. No one should answer your stupid questions, but I will make X-mas exception. 1. ALL materials can "machine" each other, rate depends mostly on hardness difference (among other nuances), that's all. 2. Dressing silicone carbide wheels is done by single diamond (not wheel). 3. Diamond wheels are not solid piece of diamond, right? Diamonds are suspended in bonding material, that's why you can rip them off with softer wheel. This is basic knowledge on various materials properties.
@@sjwsbetaskiller6218 you can buy a cbn wheel cleaner block, rutlands uk, i use it to clean cbn wheels, might work quite well on the universal grinder diamond stone, mine still looks dirty after using the small diamond dresser, so i will try my cbn block cleaner
Thank you Stefan:We have this machine in our college workshop. I assign three grinding projects to my students currently. They make an engraving tool for the milling machine, a 60 degree threading tool for the lathe, and a .125 inch wide parting tool also for the lathe. I intend to give them more assignments now that you have released this video which will be used as an introduction to this amazing tool. By having the students make the tools they were breaking the most , we have saved hundreds of dollars per year on expensive cutters and the students pick up a very valuable skill which will serve them well for their entire machining career.
I always enjoy / appreciate these sorts of videos. 1000 years in the future this is the video that will be playing in a loop next to a SLC in a glass box at the exhibit. Have you done one of these for your engraver? You really should.
I agree with you Tony. The information hear is priceless. And I have to say it is because of channel's like yours and Stefan that I'm now setting up my own hobby machine work shop 👍thanks mate
And you should finally reappear.
Yep same here👍
Thank you for your audio explanations. So many RUclips video authors coward out and don't say anything but rely only on visual text or use a robotic text to speech synthesizer. Even though English is obviously not your native language, you do an excellent job and your effort is appreciated.
I have had the Shars version of this machine for over a year sitting idle due to a combination of my on going machine shop projects, coupled with the useless instructions that came with the machine. You have single handedley filled a huge void to those (myself included) needing some basic instruction on the operation of these machines. I sharpened two end mills last night love the possibilities. No turning back now. Thank you very much, Steve
Some years later, I actually bought one! Now this video makes a lot more sense, has helped me immensely. I never got the hang of hand-grinding lathe tools, and the prospect of sharpening end mills, and making my own single-lip cutters is very exciting. Thanks Stefan!
Fyi, mine is a UTG-U2 of Chinese origin, purchased new in the UK. I can't find a cheap source for Deckel collets though, some cheap Chinese collets out there but shipping cost is horrendous. Fortunately, I have an ER11 chuck on a straight 8mm shank I can use... Might make my own custom collets, now I can make the cutter for the buttress thread...
You have no idea how much this helped me out! Just picked one up and will be doing a video on it soon...
Thank you Stephan...........you taught me more in this video than ANY books I have read. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks again. David
Great video Stephan - I bought one of these grinders after watching it. Like yours, mine came with the attachment for grinding the flutes on end mills. I was aware of your comment that this was a useless attachment but tried it anyway. It worked really well for me grinding the flutes on a 12mm and a 16mm end mill. In fact I was amazed at how effective it was. Haven't yet tried it on smaller end mills though.
Helpful video. I have the PP-U3 which is very similar. I would also advocate wearing a particulate mask to protect against silica inhalation and ear plugs too for the high pitched whistle of the wheel..
One the grinder is set for a job, take a photo of the settings for the next batch before moving on to a different job.
Yes, a dustmask is a very good idea, and I agree on the ear plug - I wear them in the shop more and more, also when I run the mill for a long time.
I generaly dont give out a PSA for safety equipment, that is up to everybody himself. And I dont get sued ;)
Thank youstephan I just bought an Alexander tool and cutter grinder this has amazing content for us new to tool grinding thanks again
Hi Stefan, I know it's a while since you produced this video but thanks. I've just purchased one from a UK supplier and as you say, the instruction 'pamphlet' is useless. Doesn't even explain how to take the wheels off. 45 minutes spent watching your video is a great help...........I shall go and practice!!!!! Thank you.
Haha, snap! I unboxed mine yesterday, then decided I'd better rewatch this video😆
Stefan, It is recommended that you put a clearance angle in where you need to go at least 5 - 7 degree above horizontal when you grind the face of the cutter, without it you don't have a real cutter clearance angle (Freiwinkel of 5-7 degree for Metal Cutting Tools). 35 years ago I had to teach Toolmaker Apprentices how to use this Single Lip Cutter Grinder. Today most of the new generation of Machinists don't even know that this special profile cutter exist. You can actually grind a spherical ball shape onto the cutter. With this Grinder you can produce an unlimited variety of Milling Cutters. It is sad that many Teachers today don't know the capabilities of this Cutter Grinder.
I know you explain it to best to your knowledge, so please don't be offended by my comment. Thank you,
Just purchased one of these from Warco. Loving it. Sharpened loads of drills and end mills. Yes its expensive but i've saved at least £200 already. Nice video Stefan. Thanks.
Really informative video about the actual capabilities of these Deckel clones Stefan. I've read a few bits of misinformation about them that there really only useful for those single lip cutting tools. These off shore copy's still aren't exactly cheap, but the last price I saw for a new Deckel grinder of this type was a bit over $10,000. Even at $1,000 for one of these clones they can obviously save enough money to pay for themselves over some time.
10k is about right for a new single lip cutter grinder. There are still a few manufacturers that build the original Deckel or a variant of it in germany - Michael Deckel and Spinner to name two...
great overview steffen,
I have one but with the simplified workhead, I've made a dividing head for it but keeping my eyes open in case one ever comes up....
Nicely done Stefan, enjoyed!
ATB, Robin
You promised to do on your channel:
- shop tour,
- stones and how to use them, make them "true" (flat),
- few other things I don't remember now.
This was an excellent video. Thank you so much!!
As another review mentioned: The only real useful video on this type of grinder anywhere on the web!
Haha, thanks. I should do more on that grinder :D
After seeing this D bit grinding application I purchased an angular adjustable tool holder head and plan to add a mounting bar on my small ma ual surface grinder. Thank you.
After watching you explain the adjustments on the grinder I've switched from String theory to M-theory.
It is a very useful machine and makes a good job of sharpening cutters. I have attachments for mine to also sharpen drills and shaping and sharpening lathe tools. With an embedded diamond cup wheel I can accurately sharpen solid carbide cutters.
Thank you for the video, Stefan. You have a nice, neat shop and you know your stuff. If I could only recommend that you get a better microphone so we can hear you better.
Thanks Stefan for showing us your D-bit grinder. I have wanted to know what and how they are used for some time now :-)
Comprehensive and well explained. For sharpening single lip engraving cutters though, I use a home made cutter grinder that has a, swash plate mechanism for relieving.
In my watchmaking school we have about 6 of these machines, they get a lot of use. Best machine, after this video I won’t be looking fo a Deckel just pick up the Chinese version.
Nice video on the grinder. I think you can easily add another very usefull use: resharp the lateral flutes of the endmills. Make a new siple head with a homemade air bearing to run a straight shank collet chuck by hand and a stand for the flutes.
Stefan,
This would have to be the most comprehensive write up on the "D" Bit Grinder on RUclips.
A credit to you my friend.
Matt
I just checked out a used Deckel S0 grinder, a 1990s model, that the seller listed for $6700 US. Depending what attachments come with it it could be a great deal or not. The machine looked unused. So, yes, the Deckel machines are expensive new or used.
I have wondered about the Deckel grinders: about how they work, their utility and convenience to use. Thanks for the video!
Great video Stefan I have been waiting for years for someone to do a video on these Chinese tool grinders. I think I might go ahead and buy one I could use one in my shop.
Thanks Loren.
Not nearly as complex as my Spiromatic drill bit grinder but certainly far more useful. Someday I hope to have a full blown tool and cutter grinder in my shop. I mainly want one for sharpening and doing forms on the big cutters for my horizontal mill.
Thanks, Stefan. Your videos are absolutely great. I subscribe to about 20 machining videos, and always enjoy watching yours first.
I just found a deckle grinder that's brand new is only been used one time on Craigslist for $2,200 this thing is so shiny and clean I actually believe the guy that it's never been used
I'm planning on being able to sharpen corner radii or ball end mills
I have had a want for one of these for years , as well as a 3D pantograph the size of a Bridgeport milling machine. In tech school we had both and both had stenciled (Property of US Navy) on them. I had figured in a few years I would have ran across these two machines and traded for them , but still have not found either one for a trade. I have seen this grinder on Amazon for around $600 but I had much rather do some sort of trading for a used one😉👍
Thanks for covering this grinder Stefan, it's been on my wish list for a while, but with a T&C grinder and a Darex E90 endmill sharpener already, obviously isn't as urgent as it would otherwise be.
One flaw I've noticed with the grinder is what looks like no adjustment on the angle of the diamond dresser. This will mean the diamond will become dull instead of being able to be rotated to a fresh sharp face each dressing. i think that would be a good mod to consider as it will make a significant difference to both the wheel dressing and the life of the diamond.
Thanks for sharing the tool grinder with us. Very interesting. regards from the UK
Excellent again, Stefan. It's full, complete and not jquite exhaustive, And it's far more informative than those now on RUclips in Chinese and a few shot off-hand in noisey settings without proper narration.
A clone of that very grinder just fell in my lap. I've never used one before so I'm still exploring its possibilities. It came with the flute grinding attachment, the lathe tool goodie, and the drill grinding jig but with 5C collets.
I still sharpen drills free hand but as I age, I may have to resort to gadgets so I'm going to hang on to the attachments.
My only complai7nt is the M8 hub extraction screw bruised the M6 taller hole in the spindle. There gotta be a better way.
Have you posted key words like "universal tool grinder" etc to aid RUclips searches? I'm linking this video to a the people seeking advise. Expect more questions.
STEFAN MAKE ANOTHER VIDEO ON THE GRINDER. Hey after watching this video I purchased one from shars and it works very well. There's nothing worse than wrecking an endmill in the first five seconds of use makes me sick! I had saved my new ones i wrecked in a jar never thinking i would ever do anything with them but I was able to save every one of them awsome. They are all razor sharp also sharpened some lathe tooling very well. My machine seems very well made except the knobs handles and hardware I will add some kind of shop vac attachment very dusty bad to breath.
That's the one machine I have wanted to see. Thanks. I hope I need one. I already have the complete set of collets that came with my FP-3. Thanks for the endmill relief idea. I was just on ebay looking for long small endmills, and thinking bad things. I'm getting ready to mill long slots through 2 inch aluminum, and I'm trying to figure out how to do it.
Really great overview and discussion on how you use this machine. Thanks so much for making a video about it.
Extremely helpful video. I have been buying new drills and end mills but I've saved the old ones and would like to put them to use. Also I suspect that with the right grinding cup it might be possible to sharpen gear cutters, which I have zillions of.
That was great, thanks. Here in Panama a new 3/8" hss 4 flute end mill is $40, this can save some serious money.
I'd love to see more on this grinder in the future.
Excellent video Stefan!
Will you do more videos on advanced drill bit grinding and lathe bit grinding?
Thanks!
Nice video and something are more claer to me. Since a couple of months I have bought the Chinese version, and it takes a lot time to grind a drill-bit whit all the correct angles. I shall used it also for lathe-tools for threating and belt-polies.
Thanks for this interesting video.
Can i know what make of chinese grinder you bought? because i qam thinking to get the same from a chinese company
It is HBM U3 grinder with C5 collets, who is in fact a copy the Deckel single lip cutter grinder. Remark; over the world different version are existhing.
i grind drill bits from 4mm to 29.5 mm using the 5c collets, i have full collet set but actually only 12mm is required for most larger drills, the secret is in the settings , top knuckle 60-70 degrees, bottom knuckle 5 degrees, for 4 flutes just change bottom knuckle to 15-20 degrees, this gives about 118 degreee drill, very sharp cuts well, so no need for drill acccessory , which i have, i also found the 5c square collet 12mm very useful in sharpening hss 12mm lathe tools, thus doing away with the lathe tool accessory which i have, still trying to grind the 2 and 4 flute endmills, but please note that suggested is a top knuckle of 85 degrees and a bottom knuckle of -5 degrees, but - 5 does not exist on the bottom knuckle scale, so you must judge the right amount left of zero, all a bit trial and error with this machine, but as stefan says i would not be without it, nice and heavy, little vibration , uses several types of wheel and nice and quiet.
Very nice grinder. Interesting video.
This may seem silly but it would be interesting to see a before & after cutting on your sharpened end mill. Chipped, broken, blued bits are easy to tell that they are bad. It's those cutter that ware VERY slowly that are tough. For myself (hobby machinist) it's when the cutting action just doesn't seem right cutting. Might make a nice RUclips video. No one has covered that subject, on recognizing a dull cutter.
Excellent, excellent video! Thanks for responding to requests. I learned more watching this than countless hours of web surfing & those silent Charlie Chaplin movies from the factories that make them. Couple questions:- how do you safely cut carbide shanks to length in home shop when you make your own tooling from blanks? - I would have thought the drill re-sharpening & faceting would be a very useful function of machine. You mentioned a pain to set up - do you mean limitation of the machine itself or those particular accessories they provide? Maybe something better you could redesign? I saw one accessory that looked like a V-groove/clamp, presumably for longer/bigger drills? But could you hold smaller size drills in the stock collets?
Great info...super discussion/instruction/demonstration
Thank you!
Dear Stefan, I think you are the only one that can help me that I know have huge knowledge. Following you I bought a beautiful toll cut grinder, made in Italy but I don’t know the name. Now My problem is that I can configure out what kind of collet need, is not 5c or U2 or any other that I know, I surf internet but there is an ocean, difficult, please those are the dimensions may you know what kind of collet are thread look 25 mm - 1 mm pitch a Length 121 - cone od 32.54 - I can’t find 😢, please try to help me
Hmmm. A very interesting machine. The Proxxon endmills I use cost 75$ for a set of 3 -- 1, 2, and 3 mm. They plunge. Tiny. I seldom plunge but when I need precisely spaced starter holes I do. I will study this video, my brand-new set of slot drills and the web site and see what I can do. FWIW, there are T&DG kits available in the UK including the Chadwick Quorn. A tough machining proposition. Cheaper than a Deckel for sure but a lot of work.
Juan Rivero
A quorn is not at all difficult to make you have to be careful, if I can do it any one can took me 2 months a couple of hour a day
Very interesting. I have never heard an actual estimate before; I have read people who spent a year on it. Can you tell me what the minimum center height I would need to make it?
bonjour Stefan, très bonne presentation de cette petite affuteuse très pratique et qui a l'air de bonne qualité,bonne continuation ...thy
Sharpening drill bits - chisel point and brad point? A demo would be nice on this very useful function, although with steady hands, I can get reasonable results on an ordinary grinding wheel. I use a white aluminium oxide wheel for drill bits. I was wondering: If you made a threaded insert for the main head and used a thin diamond blade on edge, could you not cut the back surface of the flutes of end mills? The thread would need to match the pitch of the spirals, that's all! {Tongue in cheek - It can't be that simple though}. If this did work, instead of relieving your end mills to cut deeper slots, you could extend the cutter up the plain shaft. That would extend the life of cutters a little.
I've read the title here and I said "whooooooooooooooo". Thanks man!
Really great detailed video! I recently purchased one of these and I love it. I do have one complaint, however. It seems that the wheel rotation is actually opposite of what it should be. When sharpening isn't the best practice is to be moving the abrasive into the cutting edge, not away from it? I did a set up using the inner part of the grinding wheel (it's harder to do; a mirror helps) but the results seemed better.
You should wear a dust mask and hearing protection when using any grinder. I have tinnitus (ringing in the ears) caused by machine noise damaging the nerves in the inner ear. It also causes vertigo. It's awful. I have to bring ear plugs with me if I go out to a movie or play or anywhere there could be loud noise. I wish that I had listened to people when I was younger. Loud noises don't just leave you a little deaf. Thanks for posting the video it was very informative and concise.
Agree on both! I am getting better at wearing ear protection when running machines, and I wear it all the time with the real loud powertools like the angle grinder or the circular saw...But I need to get more used to a duskmask.
Stefan Gotteswinter It's great to know that you are taking precautions to protect your health. I'm 53 years old but I have some illnesses of a seventy year old. It cut short my career. Look out for machines that make a rhythmic sound. It's a good idea to have your hearing tested so that you will know how well you are doing. You will be able to compare the results to the results of future tests to see if you have damaged your hearing.
I get a yearly healthcheck at work anyway on lung, blood, hearing, eyes and so on and I am quite glad for that (yeah I know it is in the interest of the company, not for me... ;) )
Barry Manilowa If you damage the inner ear and inhale diamond dust, it doesn't matter what healthcare system you are in. The damage is done and it's irreversible. My mother was Canadian. I watched as they let two of my aunts die because they were denied care by the system. A system that they paid for all their lives turned its back on them. We are friends with a ear nose throat surgeon in Frankfurt and there are plenty of problems in Germany's healthcare system.
Tell me about hearing loss our shop at the local iron works 50 years ago was in the power house 🏡 next to the intake for the turbine blowers for the blast furnaces( base exchange units ) now I have tinnitus 90% loss and have to lip read , I cannot get on with hearing aids so use what I learn in the turbine hall lip read ( note it's good for looking in on other people's conversations🙈
As for carbide dust resperators are a must no question
Note in those days long ago health and safety did not exist
Good vidieo as is your normal production concise and to the point I did have one but it was very poor so I made a quorn which works for me
Stuart
Thank you! I very badly want a cutter grinder but haven't had the exposure to them to know what kind, and its good to know the cheap knock off is still a good tool. I was disappointed though when you said the helical grinding attachment was useless as I was waiting for you to say something about that the whole video. Is it that it is not rigid enough to grind new flutes in a carbide blank or is really that heavy an operation just to touch up the edges on a dull end mill?
Hi Stefan, a really sharp video! Bob
Sharp, haha. Got it ;)
Very informative and thorough demonstration thank you great video as usual
Your not joking about Deckel being expensive, I just Googled it and even the manuals and catalogs are in the £65~£95 range
Markusfu- Stefan- great presentation
thanks
Hi stefan,
Very good information about the machine abilities, enjoyed... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
I find your videos very interesting and informative . Do you have details of the lathe tool accessory for the Deckel SO with maybe photos and dimensios as I would like to make one. If you have a video on that accessory it would be great.
many sharpening fixtures for end mills have some way to sharpen the length of the cutting edge on the flute. I gather that you feel that to be rather unnecessary and by shortening the end mill by some amount you avoid needing to sharpen any flutes. Have you ever sharpened any flutes and does an end mill with resharpened flutes ever produce as good a surface? (using the end mill at full length for a finishing cut)
Nice Video 👍
Stefan, good machine to use in workshop. I have one this to, and use very often.
Hi Stefan, I am having problems accessing the photos of the work you have done on your grinder. I have the same model. Thanks
I‘m always wondering if the original is called SO or S0 ("Es Oh" vs. "Es-Null"). Looking at the document it seems to be the latter, which would also follow their naming convention of other Deckel machines (G1L, FP2, etc.). I usually call it "Es-Null", but that‘s pure guessing. Frank
you can get a used deckel for about 1k. if you look. iv seen them on ebay. great video bro.
Wow, thankyou for this video. I have one of these and this was very helpful. Do you know if the bottom bar is stainless steel? I always worry that mine will rust. I use a squirt bottle to cool things down when I am grinding. Is the moly dry lube the same thing as molibdenum grease? I suspect not!
I have never heard of moly dry lube. Is it the stuff they use on bicycle chains?
My SHARS clone doesn't have a RED DOT or any other identifier that I can find. Where do I set the INDEX rotation when using the setting finger to align the flat on the DBit?
Stefan is right the Deckel used ones are completely overpriced and do not always have the milling attachment with them...there are more worn out in the market than not worn out ones and still they cost a fortune because if someone don't have a good look that the ways are protected by putting some clothes on it when not using or a plastic bag over the arm these ways are quite small and if they get dust all the time they are worn out in a short time noatter if it's Deckel or china the china clones are quite good I prefer building a diy one because I got the arm for nearly nothin brand new 😊
So Stefan: I found one of these which I acquired for $200. Low mileage with attachments.
How lucky is that? Now I only need to get it into the basement. Can I count on you for help?
Tag Stefan,
I think I know what the timing belt gear is for.... 😉
Thank you for sharing you're knowledge.
Jan-Andries, Nederland.
That is a very interesting tool , Thanks for the share man , Thumbs up !
Hi, Amigo
I just bought a tool grinder like that and I am told it's has U2 collets what can you tell me about this type of collets, or do you know any web page that can tell me more about them, as f.ex. is it a collet who have more than one name. thanks for sharing all these videoes and your expertice it is much appreciated
they say I can select disk grit 150,180,240,320,400,600 what would you pick as a general disk?
thanks stefan. very useful video.
Nice job, Does the clearance angle equal the relief angle and rake angle.? Do you grind that separately? I have an identical Yellow universal mill. Actually after buying the newer Deckel manual
On Ebay I see it essentially says for my engraving half lip pointed conical cutters the horizontal angle gives you 1/2 tip angle and the vertical tilt ~20 degrees gives that beautiful relief lip on the cutter face.
Your video inspired me I hope to make one for sharpening engraver bits.
Schones Wochenende! Vielen Danks
Patrick:)
Great Video Stefan, thanks for all the info..
Question - can you dress your diamond wheels with the diamond dressing stone? It sounds like a bad idea but if you can't then that means you can never true your wheel which doesn't make sense....
I'm assuming you can, as the diamond wheels aren't solid diamond but diamond powder embedded in a medium of some sort.
Your insight would be greatly appreciated!
The perfect bench for a grinder. A hospital hyper-al isolation station. A plexiglas shield and air re-circulation that captures all free air over the table and forces it through a 99% particle filter.
Might be a bit overkill ;9
Admittedly. But considering your perfectionism, precision and eye for details... You could always give the hyper-al station a matching paint job!
I could never be a production machinist. I'm a clean fanatic. I'd be breaking off in the middle of an operation to vacuum and sweep the floors.
BTW, as for the video. Like always, fascinating watching you work. I'd really like to see you do another that goes into details of all the possible geometric variations of the grinder and how they could be applied.
I use mine.
Like when you show use. More of your style setups(improvised) would be welcomed.
Thanks,
stefan - i acquired a shars clone recently. a noticeable difference on my clone compared to
the deckel is the vernier for the radius offset. Mine is calibrated in 1/4" major increments and
.050" minor increments. i am probably going to stick an indicator on the side of the divider head
to measure the radius offset. what are you using to measure radius offset? thanks for all the
informative videos and advice. i'm a hobbyist with a PM932 mill, a Covel #15 surface grinder,
a South Bend SB1001 lathe, and a bunch of metrology.
phil
Great video Stefan. Now if you only had a tool and cutter grinder you could demonstrate. :-)
When you refer to bucks you refer to Euro's yes??
At the current level of inflation, both :D
But in general, yes, Euro.
What do you call the aluminum oxide wheel with the resin bond on the outer layer that you show 18 minutes in? I am trying to order one but don't know what its called.
Perhaps you already answered this question, but I didn't find it in the comments. Where do you get the hubs and what kind are they? Also where do you get the hub wrench? I just picked up a 5c model and having separate hubs is only rational.
Shars wheel adaptor: FOR101-1008 must call in to get these, it won't show up on web. per ROBRENZ
Can you do a video on how you set up and grind the radius on the nose of a tool? i went through the SO Manual but just cant figure it out :-/
Stefan, have you actually removed the pages with your d-bit grinder modifications from your website? The URLs seems to lead nowhere right now. I'm receiving my d-bit this week (german/chineese Optimum GH 20T) and was hoping so much to follow your modifications to tune it up....
Thank you!
Thanks for the video Stefan! My T&C grinder is a Grizzly and very much like yours. I enjoyed the video and give you a plus for posting. I have one question. How did you determine the center for the hole/pin you placed in the (z) axis? Great video - thanks for posting.
Bob
Plzzzz make video sharp ballnouse end endmilll tip radius how tu use
Hi. Have you tried grinding 4 facet drills on this? Cheers, Crispin
Yes, works well, but holding normal twist drills in the collets is not very good, they either stick out very far or you have to clamp on the flutes wich works with this style of collet not very well.
Any thoughts on what kind of collett works well for for holding drills?
ER-Collets for example work quite well, REGO-FIX mentions in their technical documents that you can clamp on the flutes of a drill. (My experience confirmes this, I like to hold drills very short on the mill using er-collets)
With some modifications on the drillgrinding tool I am very satisfied with the results of 4- and 6 facet grinding of the drill bits. On my channel is has already 2 video's only about grinding drill bits. Check also my documentation. Next year I hope that the quick release clamp for the V-bar will be ready. I don't like Hss, Hss-Co- and carbide drills are clamped in hardened steel collects.
Hast du auch so ein Video zu einen Spitzen gravierstichel z.b. 0.2 mit 30 grad . LG
do you have any good adresses where to get the smaller used machines like grinders and hobby sized lathes in germany and near the netherlands ?
HBM machines in the netherlands sell the machine new for around 1000 euro
12:20+ dude… holy fu%€, so VERY damned impressive, please forgive my language, but damn…
Thanks Stefan!
Great info. Thanks for the Video!
Thanks
So do the diamond wheels not need dressing? If so how is the best way to dress them? Asking for a friend that totally definitely didn't ruin a diamond wheel today slamming it into carbide... :l
Cheers for this video, I'm decided, I need to get myself one of these machines, even if only to regrind the poor end mills I occasionally accidentally smash all the corners off :(
In normal use they dont need to be dressed. When they get out of shape (by heavy use or some mishapp ;) ) they can be dressed by cylindrical grinding with a silicone carbide grinding wheel. In the most simple way, that would be a diegrinder with green SiC wheel against the diamond wheel.
After Regrinding the wheel to shape, the diamond needs to be exposed from the resin bound with a special sharpening stone (Those are rather Cheap)
And btw its a horrible mess to dress a diamond wheel ;)
You get not only the diamond/resin grit but also the SiC grit all over the place :\
Stefan Gotteswinter Ooh, there go my slideways 😉
Considering how cheap the Chinese diamond wheels are, I might consider replacing it instead, thanks for the info though, I've always wondered how to do it 😊
Dear "chris0tube", you are not educated enough, that's why you can't see.
No one should answer your stupid questions, but I will make X-mas exception.
1. ALL materials can "machine" each other, rate depends mostly on hardness difference (among other nuances), that's all.
2. Dressing silicone carbide wheels is done by single diamond (not wheel).
3. Diamond wheels are not solid piece of diamond, right? Diamonds are suspended in bonding material, that's why you can rip them off with softer wheel.
This is basic knowledge on various materials properties.
@@sjwsbetaskiller6218 you can buy a cbn wheel cleaner block, rutlands uk, i use it to clean cbn wheels, might work quite well on the universal grinder diamond stone, mine still looks dirty after using the small diamond dresser, so i will try my cbn block cleaner
Very cool!