Do not use this type of DC Isolator for your solar power system array! I explain why they catch fire

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  • Опубликовано: 18 дек 2022
  • In this video I give a real life demo of a solar panel isolator catching fire and explain why it happens, why we have so many rules to adhere to and most importantly why you should engage a professional solar installer for your residential or Off Grid solar project. I made a few verbal slip ups in this video but you certainly get the point. Enjoy!

Комментарии • 158

  • @SkypowerwithKarl
    @SkypowerwithKarl Год назад +26

    If you have 250 volts through a low voltage breaker, it doesn’t matter what the amp rating is. It can burn up AFTER you turn off the breaker. DC arcs are crazy powerful. I use 1000 volts breakers on a 250 volt array and pay attention to the polarity marked breaker.

  • @glenmartin2437
    @glenmartin2437 Год назад +9

    Thank you.
    I worked on a lot of laboratory equipment. I learned to read and reread the manuals, then ask the company engineers and technicians questions.
    It eliminated problems and downtime.
    And I am still alive and have all my fingers, etc.

  • @richardblais6282
    @richardblais6282 Год назад +30

    There is the rated operating voltage too that is very important. As an example, operating a 150v disconnect switch on a 350v array would give the same result.

    • @rm6857
      @rm6857 10 месяцев назад +2

      That breaker is rated for 220V DC

    • @michenji
      @michenji Месяц назад +1

      @@rm6857 i was about to abandon my project just because i watched this video... but then i wonder if the same would have occured if he used a 1000v 16a double dc bracker on a string that produces 14 amp in short circuit mode like i'm going to do... any opinion about it is very welcome

    • @rm6857
      @rm6857 Месяц назад +1

      @@michenji It burnt because he used 220V breaker for 350V system. If you use 1000V for 350V, you are fine.

  • @schrodingerscat7218
    @schrodingerscat7218 Год назад +26

    EE here. I laughed and laughed at the video and the title. Watch me light this pile of hay on fire to prove that hay is a bad idea. So much wrong here, I wouldn't even care to start.

  • @dianeattaway8733
    @dianeattaway8733 Год назад +8

    For any DC interrupter device, voltage rating is absolutely critical. Larger voltages require an exponentially more robust arc chute control. A 100V disconnect on a 500V circuit at any current is going to be a blast, even at 1A. DC is a completely different animal than AC.

  • @isettech
    @isettech Год назад +11

    For those not in Australia, or even those in Australia, there are manufactures of breakers with magnets and arc chutes to quench an arc for high DC interruption. They are designed to open under load and quench the arc. Please note they are polarity sensitive as the polarity determines the direction of the arc blow in the magnetic field. Polarity must be observed to blow the arc into the arc chute instead of away from it. Many breakers for DC have low voltage ratings due to the difficulty in quenching an arc. For panel arrays, ensure the breaker is able to quench the open circuit voltage under load. Other DC disconnect devices have multiple series contacts to break the arc.
    Large gap knife switches work well as the gap when open is more distance than the current can mantain an arc. Use the type often used for inductive loads such as for a heat pump disconnect switch. Double break and an open distance greater than 1 inch is good to stop the arc. The distance is important the same way cutting the cable broke the arc. You need a large device with the ability to make a large gap when open. For over current protection, use the sand filled multi-element fuse for at least the rated voltage. The sand falls into the arc to quench it.

  • @andrewhofmann5453
    @andrewhofmann5453 Год назад +2

    Wow, read the title, came into this video expecting you to be critical, but wow.... Great demonstration. Really making me take a second look at my disconnects.

  • @davedave6404
    @davedave6404 Год назад +6

    Wow ! Excellent demonstration. Use of a much higher DC rated breaker, voltage and current, is clearly needed than the installation normally provides. Trouble is in an emergency the isolation switches would always be used so they must be rated for Live switching as well as Isolation. Adds to costs but so would a fire.

  • @davef.2329
    @davef.2329 Год назад +9

    Just curious, what was the line voltage for this demo?

  • @NSaw1
    @NSaw1 Год назад +11

    I've tested quite a few breakers here in the US under a DC load. 92 volts DC.
    Its interesting, because our standard AC breakers like Square D homeline breakers stood up better than the actual DC rated breakers I had. None pf them failed to extinguish the arc. Although the breakers I was using where rated for 5ka but the homelines where rated for 10ka which probably had a loot to do with it.
    Would be very interesting to see more breakers tested under DC load, even ones that aren't DC rated since that seems to be a thing that is done a lot too.

    • @carlubambi5541
      @carlubambi5541 Год назад

      Remember the types of breakers out there .The best breakers are thermal sensing ,current sensing and magnetic tripping .Also operating voltage gives it the ability to extinguish and ARC ,Always she's the load in the panel before you open the main breaker .Same thing with fused disconnects protecting panels .Also there are HP ratings to contend with ,not just current and voltage and ratings AIR and most important .NEMA vs IEC .I'll take NEMA every day over any IEC .Just remember if your short circuit current is 10 amps don't put in a 15 amp breaker or fuse for that matter even if the wire is rated for 30 amps ...As the voltage goes up you will need devices with arc chutes for quenching the arc .Some uses several contacts in series for arc quenching

  • @rad1876
    @rad1876 Год назад +3

    Excellent demonstration reinforcing the need to implement the correct type of switching device.
    Until you see how it instantly ignites it’s hard to have an appreciation for the risk.

  • @keithshumaker6402
    @keithshumaker6402 Год назад +28

    The whole thing is if you don’t know what you’re doing don’t do it

    • @chrisparker9886
      @chrisparker9886 Год назад +1

      Yeah, it's pretty much common sense. If you can read and understand what you're reading, you can do it the right way. 😏

    • @3th1xs
      @3th1xs Год назад

      Or do it anyway and learn the hard lesson. Then next time, you might stop to research what you're doing. Eventually you'll learn or run out of money.

    • @msamour
      @msamour Год назад +3

      This video assumes people can't learn. I understand the concern, but that is a ver elitist view of the world. I built my first system last year after I did about 100 hours of research. I already replaced components that had been recommended, but turned out to be faulty.

  • @whoguy4231
    @whoguy4231 Год назад +3

    Awesome breaker fire. Just love how quickly it lights up and burns. Some breakers due to age will prematurely trip causing the same break under load condition. Was a stupid idea to have them in the first place, hence why it's now obsolete.

    • @joondalupelectricalservice3201
      @joondalupelectricalservice3201  Год назад +2

      Thanks Brian, yes it surprised me just how quick it went up. And yes your spot on about the breakers simply tripping through age, fatigue, external thermal influences etc. This one was in spec for the application also.

  • @dc1544
    @dc1544 Год назад +4

    That is why DC disconnects have large gaps. If you have to turnoff under load no fire will happen. Also not having a large enough disconnect (using a 12 volt disconnect on 310V. All solar disconnects should be rated to 600V minimum. Mine are 1000V 64 amp. Mine shutoff 330V 15 amps . This was a great video thank you. Also I would not use the inverter disconnect first. I would use a wall mounted with fireboard disconnect like you have then turn of disconnect on inverter 2nd. then reverse for on.

  • @budmartin3344
    @budmartin3344 Год назад +11

    Can you provide the full spec of that burnt circuit breaker? What is the Voltage feeding that circuit breaker?

    • @mythuan2000
      @mythuan2000 Месяц назад

      I think its the chinese one cuz there diagram on the right and blank on the left. Probably 240VAc/125Vdc or something. That was why he hid the right side of the the breaker.

    • @jeroenlodder5838
      @jeroenlodder5838 Месяц назад

      @@mythuan2000 even if not Chinese, rating is only 220vdc and it’s not an isolator. It’s a breaker.

  • @BOGGarage
    @BOGGarage Год назад +6

    Can we please get more details about that breaker?

  • @Kirkbdavis
    @Kirkbdavis Год назад +2

    Great content. Thanks for putting this up.

  • @electrocomm
    @electrocomm Год назад +15

    it's good to be aware of the risks but this video is incomplete and misleading. no info about the breaker ratings, solar open circuit voltage, if the breaker is wired correct polarity, etc. moreover, those extension solar conductors increase the total inductance and therefore the arc energy which may be beyond the breaker can handle.

  • @hardcoreclassicenjoyer
    @hardcoreclassicenjoyer 6 месяцев назад +1

    as an apprentice with 2 years of solar installing experience, ive seen the crusty smelly shells of the Zbenny isolators. But to see how quick the switch goes on fire was eye opening ty

  • @JamesMorris-os7kb
    @JamesMorris-os7kb Год назад +3

    Great demo mate

  • @keything8487
    @keything8487 Год назад +2

    "dont fuck with these" !!!......as a sparky in the states, i can attest, to the lack of knowledge most of them have. especially with DC voltage/currents. thank you for the show !!

  • @skywave12
    @skywave12 Год назад +3

    Go with 1000 Volt inline fuses. When they open a temporary inert gas is given off inside to assure a voltage breakdown will not occur. Way safer than air breakers. DC has no zero crossing so it is harder to remove a breakdown ark.

  • @solargoat
    @solargoat Год назад +1

    Great demonstration!!

  • @mikesgarage394
    @mikesgarage394 10 месяцев назад +4

    Incorrectly wired DC breaker is a fire hazard. Wire it correctly and try again.

  • @al2207
    @al2207 Год назад +4

    to protect dc load you must use breaker with proper interrupting capacity at that dc voltage and having number required of poles in series as a representative for the correct number

  • @FarmsVilla
    @FarmsVilla Год назад +2

    Year 4 of running my DIY 10kw solar system. No issues at all so far. 🤷🏻‍♂️🙄

  • @drunk_astronomy
    @drunk_astronomy Год назад +1

    I only use midnight breakers. MNDC breakers marked with polarity in mind because you want the arc to extinguish in the same direction of the yolk. If you wire DC breakers backwards it will actually hold the yolk in the closed condition in some scenarios. That would be bad.
    The 600 V breaker that midnight solar makes actually has four yolks.
    thanks for making the video. It’s very important to understand how DC arcs pertaining to these breakers work.

  • @larrybell4599
    @larrybell4599 Год назад

    Wow, that’s an eye opener!!!

  • @cowboyrides3585
    @cowboyrides3585 Год назад +2

    Really I've been hot 🔥 rodin my shit for years, lol , they don't just catch on fire lol , good luck 🤞

  • @electromechanicalstuff2602
    @electromechanicalstuff2602 Год назад +3

    My 150vdc midnite solar breakers have worked flawlessly on my 80vdc system. Put too much charge controller on an array and it popped 80 amps repeatedly

  • @iqtadarali884
    @iqtadarali884 2 месяца назад

    Perfect explanation.... Thanks.

  • @todamnbad
    @todamnbad Год назад +14

    Not enough information provided to explain your situation

    • @BobCollins42
      @BobCollins42 Год назад +5

      From the title, the poster doesn't care to inform, just scare you to hire him. Not impressed.

  • @hasger1941
    @hasger1941 Год назад +4

    So what happens when the customer forgets to turn off the AC load before the DC ? Would have thought this would need to be fool proof..

  • @Bushcraft-xz6xd
    @Bushcraft-xz6xd Год назад +3

    I’m sure you meant well with this video but you need to either redo it with the needed information or add the info to this vid.
    What you are saying is the correctly rated breakers they used to use in PV systems will catch fire if you turn them off under load? Because that is what I got from the video. So the DIY 200 watt 12 volt panel and inverter I have on my shed that uses a similar breaker will burst into flames the moment I switch it off?

  • @electromechanicalstuff2602
    @electromechanicalstuff2602 Год назад +7

    What voltage is that breaker rated at?
    What voltage are you using for the test?
    How many ka is the breaker rated for?

    • @rm6857
      @rm6857 10 месяцев назад +1

      its rated 220V, and he uses 350V

    • @electromechanicalstuff2602
      @electromechanicalstuff2602 10 месяцев назад

      @@rm6857 obviously he's using more than it's rated.

    • @rm6857
      @rm6857 9 месяцев назад

      @@electromechanicalstuff2602 Yes, that breaker is good brand with CE rating.

  • @_wookie
    @_wookie Год назад +8

    Hello!
    Really good and informative video but one question: what was the voltage in the system?
    I am looking the datasheet of Eaton/Moeller PLS6-C16/2DC breaker and there it says it's a proper DC breaker rated to 220V DC. It doesn't say anything about the arc extinction/reduction in the datasheet but I would assume that when used in accordance to the spec it shouldn't just ignite like it was seen in the video.
    So I am wondering what actually caused it to fail... Was it already broken? Was it some cheap fake? Was it used in the system with much higher voltage than rated for? Something else?

    • @rm6857
      @rm6857 10 месяцев назад

      No, he used 350V solar array. That DC breaker is good brand with CE

    • @SrDelbioLima
      @SrDelbioLima 4 месяца назад

      it seems that the dc breaker wasn't good enough or the voltage used was higher than its specs. @@rm6857

  • @clarke6436
    @clarke6436 Год назад +1

    Great video, please make other videos with safety tips as there are a lot of diy solar people out there.

  • @excillisbank2611
    @excillisbank2611 3 месяца назад

    superbe test en direct !👌

  • @gssrustenburg
    @gssrustenburg Год назад +1

    In my inverter manual it states, never disconnect under load. I guess the same applies to battery disconnect. Would a disconnect fuse be safer as it is manually disconnected ?

  • @teddycunningham7568
    @teddycunningham7568 9 месяцев назад

    New subscriber. I now no why my breaker failed luckily without fire . May go to a giant Frankenstein knife switch instead. LOL

  • @BlueSky-cy5nw
    @BlueSky-cy5nw 7 месяцев назад +1

    Moral of the story: Do not disconnect solar when it is under load, whether it is breakers or MC4 connectors.

  • @CadeBrazil
    @CadeBrazil Год назад +2

    Just use fusels instead breakers for DC and that's it. Of course, you have to be using the correct Amperage and solved. No fires, no problems.

  • @jcschwarb
    @jcschwarb Год назад +1

    Is a fuse better, more sensitive in this use case, acting as sacraficial?

  • @Mechanical803
    @Mechanical803 6 месяцев назад

    Is using a higher voltage DC fuse for the holder better in this case than using breakers?

  • @Swenser
    @Swenser 8 месяцев назад +1

    I have used a DC breaker in that style. 1000v 16amps. No issues switching. Obviously that brand you used has simply not be designed to operate at the voltage and current used or it's a faulty design. A DC breaker of that style should follow it's ratings. What brand breaker was that? was it an AC breaker?

  • @mark7362
    @mark7362 5 дней назад

    Thank you for making this video, this is very very helpful, might even save some lives! Just curious, do you think it's safe to say that all Cbreakers with that similar design (possibly rebranded) are equally as bad as this one in the video?

  • @stem_saving1644
    @stem_saving1644 Год назад +2

    Your breaker needs to meet not only current loads as well as break voltages. If your sized correctly, then your over current protection device isn't an over current protection device.

  • @user-tj5nk7lb8l
    @user-tj5nk7lb8l 4 месяца назад

    Very good demo Joon Ive been banging on about how DIY (amateurs) are so casual about dc distribution - but I just a a big yawn from forum members (like Im a party pooper). One thing to note is that an arc can be killed by distance (for a given voltage). Its not possible to sustain an arc at 12vdc from a car battery. Use a 24 v pair and you can do dc welding. But pull the rod away from the work by more than ca 1/2" and the arc goes out. My take is to stay at 24v its much safer. 48v might need a 2" separation (tbc). I believe the very common domestic 63A knife switch (ca $10 us) would do the breaker job very neatly at 24v (48v tbc?). These are all over the far east and solid reliable, as are the Siemens NH style knife fuses ($5us). IMHO there's a massive cartel trying to monopolise the Solar DIY market and its rife with fraudulent parts - fake cable (4mm2 labelled as 6mm2 etc)

  • @odoohub5010
    @odoohub5010 6 месяцев назад

    What is the difference between the dead short you created and the internal short inside the breaker as a result of turning off the load?

  • @ibot_
    @ibot_ 11 месяцев назад

    Do you check the current direction? Moeller change to Eaton 264902 PL7-C16/2-DC and on it you can see a plus and a minus for the direction of the current. That will be interest for me.

  • @rentabomb
    @rentabomb 8 месяцев назад

    Did you try putting a strong magnet near it when you threw the switch ? This may pull the arc away and cause it to extinguish.

  • @cjmcay
    @cjmcay 6 месяцев назад

    Would this huge draw trip the 30 amp inline solar fuse I have on each home run connected to each array?

  • @_Miner
    @_Miner 4 месяца назад +1

    I hope by now you remembered to speak with Todd

  • @stevemiller6237
    @stevemiller6237 Год назад

    That went fast, what are the ratings of the breaker?

  • @Ranch321
    @Ranch321 Год назад

    Can you combine a dissconnect switch and a smoke detector? So if there's smoke in your eletric room it will automatically kill the power?

  • @captain1butterworth712
    @captain1butterworth712 Год назад

    Well done, is that from solar for wombats.

  • @kimmogensen5390
    @kimmogensen5390 5 месяцев назад

    so i have a DC isolater rated for 1000v 63A but i am only running 250v 20A ,,would that one also go to smoke , if i break the circut in high sunlight? i have only turned it off early morning or late night...

  • @coolmalli8293
    @coolmalli8293 3 месяца назад

    Hi there does Growatt inverter has in built isolator

  • @odoohub5010
    @odoohub5010 6 месяцев назад

    What if there is no load, but only batteries that are being charged. Can you still turn off the isolator while the batteries are being charged? Since the battery is like a load. Or do we need to turn off the breaker for the battery before turning off the isolator for the pv array.

  • @johannholtzhausen895
    @johannholtzhausen895 Год назад +4

    Actually these so-called dc circuit breakers are not designed for dc at all. A proper dc switch or breaker will be physically a lot larger, have proper arc shields and arcing horns all built in. What is currently used is a re-branded ac breaker. It can still be used with dc, provided you wire up a "snubber" circuit in parallel with the circuit breaker. This should consist of a resistance in series with a decent size capacitor and the arcing problem is solved.

  • @quitequiet5281
    @quitequiet5281 5 месяцев назад

    Excellent scary example.

  • @Mike-01234
    @Mike-01234 4 месяца назад

    This is why roof top solar requires rapid shutdown devices that will reduce the voltage.

  • @PhilippeCJR
    @PhilippeCJR Год назад

    What is de voltage and amp spec of that breaker?

  • @UK100Adam
    @UK100Adam Месяц назад

    I take it that the polarity was the wrong way round? Please confirm.

  • @markpate4295
    @markpate4295 9 месяцев назад +1

    That jumper doesn't seem right? All the schematics I have looked at show 2 methods on battery side going in. 1324 and or 1234? I am glad I haven't screwed anything up yet. I am waiting on some 4/0 cable and some DC cutoffs. Resetable 300 amp breaker. Lug crimp. Stuff. Everything is so expensive.

  • @Gallardo6669
    @Gallardo6669 Год назад

    No sh*t ! Wow. Thanks for the video!!!

  • @batterynerd8779
    @batterynerd8779 Год назад

    That‘s why i dont use breakers at all. Although i only have 200 watts of solar. I dont know why i would want to disconnect my solar panels? I just remove the cable from the charge controller. Also the voltage isn‘t dangerous in my case

  • @bialy100k
    @bialy100k 4 месяца назад

    Sad we are not sure about polarity of the test connection. Usually power source is connected from the top, and load is down.

  • @pepermintpilot1694
    @pepermintpilot1694 Год назад +1

    I'm not a PV installer or even a "spark" but my understanding was that in PV panels the Voltage remains constant and the Current changes due to light conditions. Please be mindful if you reply, I'm a mechanical engineer not electrical!

    • @flatfoot
      @flatfoot Год назад

      Except at dwan & dusk, that's broadly correct

    • @vylbird8014
      @vylbird8014 Год назад +2

      Mostly. Only complication is that the open-circuit voltage is a fair bit higher than the optimal operating voltage, so you need to rate your components accordingly. A panel sold as '12V' will usually be able to output 20V under no-load conditions.

    • @CollinBaillie
      @CollinBaillie Год назад +1

      @@vylbird8014 22 or more.. 18v at maximum power point. They sold as "12v" panels, because that's the target nominal battery voltage. You need somewhat higher voltage than the battery charge voltage (~14.4v on a nominal 12v battery). Just adding info to your already informative comment, for others.

    • @electrocomm
      @electrocomm Год назад +2

      the dry air has a breakdown voltage of 3kV/milimeter, if the air is wet, this value is lower. if the distance between the contacts is 1 milimeter and there is an arc between them, it means the voltage is already kV. due to the parasitic inductance of all the wires where the current flows in a closed loop system, if you open the loop, the parasitic inductor tries to resist current change and it will increase the voltage creating an arc until all energy of the inductor is dissipated and the voltage returns to that of the PV panel/string. if you want to minimise the arc, keep the wires as short and thicker as possible.

  • @richardsandwell2285
    @richardsandwell2285 Год назад +4

    I have done my own offgrid, I used DC rated isolation switches and everything is in a durable metal enclosure, to be fair I have heard of plenty of professionally installed installations catching fire, and the classic stupid mistake is installing inverters in lofts.
    This stresses the electronics in hot weather, also people have been known to pile old bed linen and Christmas decorations around these inverters, leading to even greater thermal stress and fires.

    • @carlubambi5541
      @carlubambi5541 Год назад

      Rule of thumb 10kw inverter for every 7kw of demand ..Leaving 3 meters of space around your inverter is essential .Also the same rules apply for the derating of conductors based On ambient temperatures .You drop your ratings if your inverters ambient temperature is at 50°C like in attics and lofts in summer .Derate again for that and you may be only able to run 5 kw on a 10 kw inverter .Adding fans for cooling is essential and fresh air. in many cases the attic temps are much higher than outside .More fans !Or water cooled heat exchangers

    • @scottwilliams5196
      @scottwilliams5196 Год назад +2

      Same here, I did my own and it's been working great. Why scare people away from solar? Isn't an unreliable power grid more alarming?

    • @carlubambi5541
      @carlubambi5541 Год назад

      @@scottwilliams5196 there is no such thing as free energy or green energy .This is the problem going from a reliable power source to one that is not .Solar has its uses so long as you have the ability and space to provide more power than what you need and the ability to store enough surplus to operate for 1 to 2 weeks .Let's face it we have many cloudy and overcast days and at times for weeks in a row .It's not a reliable power source but a means of augmenting a power system .All you are doing is off setting the carbon foot print to a later date .They are highly toxic ,have a relatively short life span in some locations and have issues with maintenance and need to be cleaned to keep efficiency up .I like solar,don't get me wrong but it has its issues and has limitations and they do harm the environment from manufacturing ,disposal and the change in temperature in the area they operate .So do wind mills ,they kill wild life and redirect air flow and introduce noise that can be harmful to animals and humans .Basic laws of physics
      .(Energy Can't be Created, Only Transformed From One Form To Another )And that's that !You can't get something for nothing .Everything has a cost

    • @scottwilliams5196
      @scottwilliams5196 Год назад +2

      @@carlubambi5541 my tool box has many tools. I don't reject a tool because it can't do everything. Solar has been a great tool for me. Wind would be a good tool as well. Grid is a good tool. My panels will long outlast me and probably the next person that comes along. I replace batteries in my solar like I do in my cars, truck, mower, generator and power tools. We all do that. Not complicated. If you don't want alternative power, cool for you. Enjoy that choice, but don't dump on others who try to think outside the box.

    • @carlubambi5541
      @carlubambi5541 Год назад +1

      @@scottwilliams5196 yes I agree it has many uses ,it's a tool like anything else .It's has its uses and limitations,and should not be promoted as a be all and end all and cure for an imaginary enemy nor as a cure to solve an energy problem that does not exists .You see the more energy is produced the cheaper the price ,the problem becomes at what point will it be profitable for the produces .Eh Pickering nuclear plant produced electricity at a cost of 4 cents per Kwhr over its life span .This cost includes the building and maintenance .Distribution is another head ache and cost .The end user was paying about 6 to 8 cents per kWhr .they now privatized electricity and now we are paying as much as 10 times .for the same electricity .We are paying between 50 to 80 cents per KWHr for solar and Wind .!Something is seriously wrong .
      If I had the space I could put in about 4 kw of solar .The cost would be too high and the recovery too long 20 to 30 years before you break even .I have 400 watts on my shed to charge my tools and lawn mower and supply security lighting .It would cost me $3k + to run a wire from my house to the shed .So I spent$1500 for a stand alone solar system .The batteries are the biggest cost at almost $400 each .I use 2 RV marine lead acid batteries and a 1500w inverter .That's more than enough for a stand alone power system .When the power does go out I use a back up generator .

  • @solartime8983
    @solartime8983 Год назад

    Yes🌻If you're not 99% confident in your ability to safety build, do Not do DIY!! BEST to Hire a PRO...🗽🌅

  • @joselito7776
    @joselito7776 6 месяцев назад

    Is that not circuit breaker?

  • @seafire157
    @seafire157 5 месяцев назад

    oh my...i plan to install 100w panel so i need highier amphere swiich braker for 100watts d.c output

  • @rm6857
    @rm6857 10 месяцев назад

    What was voltage of this solar system?

    • @joondalupelectricalservice3201
      @joondalupelectricalservice3201  10 месяцев назад +1

      Hi
      Around 350v from memory. I will be doing the experiment again soon with more detail.

    • @rm6857
      @rm6857 10 месяцев назад

      @@joondalupelectricalservice3201 Why experiment, this is trustable brand dc breaker, its rated for 220V DC so you are more than 150% of its rated voltage. Do you have any education in electrics? or you just try experiments if breakers burn or not?

  • @texasoffgridguy8749
    @texasoffgridguy8749 Год назад +3

    Don’t let this video scare you from going off grid of course a fire will happen if you jump the negative to positive like you did in this video

    • @unionse7en
      @unionse7en 9 месяцев назад +1

      You missed the point (it happens ;-) ), no fire happened during the short circuit. The fire happened when the short was *disconnected*/opened and the resultant arc was not interrupted . Solar panels can be shorted indefinitely as the cabling is rated for that , and panels can't supply more than that (unlike most batteries). Solar panels can't only supply a limited current to their loads , a short is no different than a heavy load, they will just max out to their Isc amp rating and that's it (voltage will drop). However when you interrupt it under max load.....that what we see in this video.

  • @lotechgreg
    @lotechgreg Год назад

    Isn't this why "No arc"DC breakers are used? .. It's why I used them....

  • @carnaud
    @carnaud Год назад +2

    16 amps DC is kinda small… 🤷‍♂️. Seems to me they should have never been used for the application.

  • @carlbrown5150
    @carlbrown5150 7 месяцев назад

    There are different Breakers for ac and dc. Dc has a longer ark arrestor ac does not. Don't confuse them things can go south Quickley.!!🤨

  • @richardt4824
    @richardt4824 Год назад +1

    So the home owner can inadvertently mess up the shut down procedure and burn the house down ,Great !

  • @paulf1157
    @paulf1157 Год назад +1

    Nice to have money to pay for contractors' big pickups

  • @clomads
    @clomads 4 месяца назад

    Bro you just got duped into buying an AC breaker that’s labeled as a DC breaker and compared it to a clearly more expensive variant. There are literally arc suppressors in proper DC breakers.

  • @Mike80528
    @Mike80528 Год назад

    People need to cautious about buying cheap crap on Amazon or eBAY. Too many people try to go cheap in the worst places. If the electrical device doesn't provide *complete* specs, you are taking a risk. Also, people need to understand the difference between a breaker and disconnect. They server VERY different purposes. A breaker needs to be rated for the minimum capacity of the line (it give out first for safety), but a disconnect needs to be OVER RATED.
    If you want current *protection* you need a BREAKER (or fuse) and not simply a disconnect. I put disconnects at the panels and *breakers* inside closer to the system.
    You cannot use AC rated devices on DC at the same load (get DC rated).
    Also, you point about load is important. Shed your load before disconnecting loads at the power source.

    • @Gallardo6669
      @Gallardo6669 Год назад

      What you mean by saying shed the load?

    • @Mike80528
      @Mike80528 Год назад

      @@Gallardo6669 You don't want to just trip a main breaker with multiple appliances/loads operating. It puts way too much stress on the breaker and risks a failure. You trip your individual lines one at a time to disconnect smaller loads sequentially and then trip the main when there little or no load on it.

    • @Gallardo6669
      @Gallardo6669 Год назад

      @@Mike80528 i thought so, but thx for clarifying.

  • @xsauce3858
    @xsauce3858 Год назад +1

    It's not a bad idea if you know what you are doing.

  • @koborkutya7338
    @koborkutya7338 Год назад +9

    it is a great heads up but the title is a totally stupid approach. You could help a lot of people to address the critical points and demonstrate how to avoid the pitfalls. If you make a series doing just that I would even subscribe. Saying "DYI and Off-grid is a bad idea" will just alienate viewers and for sure nobody who would otherwise be willing to build a solar system by themselves will say "oh this video said it was a bad idea so I will call an installer to charge me an arm and a leg for pointing at a decent isolator". Whoever is up to the challenge (like myself) is totally interested in the possible issues and the right approaches to avoid them but will definitely not be scared by the fact that wrong connections can cause fire - no sane person in the world will assume it is safe to connect electricity the wrong way.
    You could and should say everyone should do their homework, research the subject and may guide them to some reliable sources of knowledge. You can absolutely warn viewers that if they screw it up it will burn like this and even worse (you did not even talk about lithium battery fires).
    "why DIY solar and Off Grid is a bad idea" - it just looks like a contractor trying to secure more job. Which btw I don't really think you want but it looks very close.

  • @asiasmells71
    @asiasmells71 Год назад

    So what's the solution?

    • @sang3Eta
      @sang3Eta Год назад

      The latest inverters have arc detection and PV disconnect switch.

    • @Bushcraft-xz6xd
      @Bushcraft-xz6xd Год назад

      @@sang3Eta Oh I see, so get rid of all our older inverters and spend thousands on new ones?

    • @sang3Eta
      @sang3Eta Год назад

      @Bushcraft1974 You can fit an external DC switch to your DC in cable. You can also put an arc fault detector in your fuse box. In the UK we also only use serial string inverters with lower Amps higher Volts which also helps eliminate arcing.

  • @666dualsport
    @666dualsport Год назад

    its a dead short circuit??

  • @cotandiet6096
    @cotandiet6096 10 месяцев назад +1

    Just to mention this to everyone. By the code here in USA, DC wires must be inside a metal raceway and connected to a metal enclosure. PVC conduits and plastic boxes are not allowed.

  • @unSTEVOED
    @unSTEVOED 3 месяца назад

    Shit that was fast

  • @nemethakos75
    @nemethakos75 9 месяцев назад

    Nem tudom, úgy gondolom ez nem terheléskapcsoló vagy szakaszoló

  • @panospapadimitriou3498
    @panospapadimitriou3498 7 месяцев назад

    if breaker is the turning one with chamber for poles inside isnt it harder to maintain any ark ? ? ? this was soooooooo entertaining but no motivating !!!!! even 70v array can do such firecracking things!!!!!!!

  • @rv10flyer84
    @rv10flyer84 10 месяцев назад

    Diagonal cutters will break the circuit.

  • @dennisgoldman7160
    @dennisgoldman7160 2 месяца назад

    this is misleading due to the fact that the voltage source needs to be connected to the top of the breaker ....yes this is a perfect example of what can happen if your installer does not know what he is doing and hooks it up incorrectly

  • @HotRockCentral
    @HotRockCentral 9 месяцев назад

    It must be the brand you have is junk. I have all my panels on similar chinese dc breakers & often shut them down under load & never had an issue like you showed.

  • @agusm20856
    @agusm20856 Год назад

    Learning by doing, made mistake good improvement.. don’t do anything we are not learning anything

  • @WiSeNhEiMeR-1369
    @WiSeNhEiMeR-1369 Год назад

    HOWdy J-E-S, ...
    Thanks
    my ECO-WORTHY Combiner-Box has a 63 Amp "DC" rated circuit-breaker ...
    COOP
    the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
    ...

  • @SalvationStudioZA
    @SalvationStudioZA Год назад

    Non Polirised MCB? ASs this is an Polirised MCB

  • @carlubambi5541
    @carlubambi5541 Год назад +1

    Those breakers are not approved for disconnecting DC power .They are so bad.Use inline fuse holders to protect the breakers.Shedding the load is standard practice on ACor DC equipment

    • @flatfoot
      @flatfoot Год назад

      and what do you think the fuses will do?

    • @electro2606
      @electro2606 Год назад

      @@flatfoot disconect

    • @carlubambi5541
      @carlubambi5541 Год назад

      @@flatfoot open the circuit .In large DC drives we use fuses in series with breakers to protect the breakers .Common practice for us in plastic extrusion in machines using DC motors driving screws .Eventually we replace the DC motors with AC motors with VFD

    • @flatfoot
      @flatfoot Год назад +1

      @@carlubambi5541 fuses on a DC single PV string will never do anything. The fault current is no larger than the operating current. How does the fuse know when there's a fault condition?

    • @carlubambi5541
      @carlubambi5541 Год назад +2

      @@flatfoot .There are time delay thermal sensing fuses .they sense temperature and open up .They have a fuse link that has a spring on one side and a little pot of low temp solder that pulls open when it starts to melt because of the spring tension ..Now if the fault Current is only 15 amps then put in a 10 amp d type fuse .Also use UCC fuse holders and a disconnect so you have an extra method of disconnecting means ...These problems can be reduced .We get so much equipment from Europe with those breakers .We remove them and put in Mersen UCC Ultra safe fuse holders .Read the use specifications on the breakers .Most are only good for communications equipment.tehre is an AIR rating on fuses and breakers to consider as well as their voltage and their ability to quench an Arc.Some motor starters/manual motor starters have the ability to add quenching
      Chutes when used at higher voltages to extinguish the Arc .Or the use of multiple contacts in series to quench an arc .As this current does not exceed the breakers trip current temperature sensitive breakers are available (Magnetic ,thermal and overload sensing in one package .Fuses come with short circuit or thermal overload sensing

  • @ForwardEngineering
    @ForwardEngineering Год назад

    This title is wrong and has a off logic mentality. It should be said "Another example of why you over build instead of under build" DIY solar is the best option for the majority of people. If your not capable then yes pay to have the system installed.

    • @joondalupelectricalservice3201
      @joondalupelectricalservice3201  Год назад

      Agree, the title could be better. My motive however is to make people aware of the dangers of diy and solar.

  • @mosesarzu7670
    @mosesarzu7670 Год назад

    You probably hookup something wrong or you got cheap components

  • @DavidJohnson-dc8lu
    @DavidJohnson-dc8lu Год назад

    First to avoid that is to sit down and learn maths in order to make sure you are not overloading the system. Will Prowse has videos on that!